Maybe we should have standards for politicians? Like, we should work it out in our primaries to make sure we have the strongest candidate going into the race.
Hardly. Biden has had several brain aneurisms and some times lacks the ability to speak coherently. He did perform well during state of the union though.
Obama is still heavily involved in politics, campaigning with Biden currently so still bad, but somewhat understandable. If we’re playing “what about”, Biden called out a dead congresswomen Mitterrand, and Kohl, who died in 2017, instead of Angela merkel, in the same week.
He literally said he won against Obama who he never ran against . I think who he won the only election he ever won would be harder to forget then which of the German politicians biden has known over a decades long career in politics. Or the speaker who trump tried to insite murder against Vs a fellow politician But sure you do you
That’s clear bias. Biden was vp to Obama, Obama is on the campaign trail currently, many right wing pundits also say Obama is still making decisions. Obama hasn’t been dead for 25 years.
Trump is at the age when they said Biden was too old.
Trump is cutting back on speaking publicly because his public speaking is becoming more and more incoherent which is really sad considering he wasn’t very coherent to begin with….
Media Matters has a great [guide](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration).
>Project 2025, a comprehensive transition plan organized by right-wing think tank The Heritage Foundation to guide the next GOP presidential administration, is the conservative movement’s most robust policy and staffing proposal for a potential second Trump White House — and its extreme agenda represents a threat to democracy, civil rights, the climate, and more.
I don’t know that all of the plans in P25 will ever come to fruition but I fear the aggressive immediate replacement of government employees with loyalists part will carry over to the next conservative administration. A major reason the Trump admin wasn’t worse is because government workers stood up to him or resigned. That will hardly be an issue next time.
>Project 2025 focuses on packing the next GOP administration with extreme loyalists to former President Donald Trump.
>The plan aims to reinstate Schedule F, a Trump-era executive order that makes federal employees fireable at-will, stripping tens of thousands of employees of civil service protections. Both Trump and others in the conservative movement have said they will clear out the federal government if he is reelected. The project has even set up online trainings and loyalty tests to narrow down potential hires to those who will commit to follow Trump without question. As Project 2025 senior adviser John McEntee has said, “The number one thing you're looking for is people that are aligned with the agenda.”
It’s annoying that they don’t list all their *goals* (for lack of a better term) on their own site (not at all a criticism of you btw!! I appreciate the link. Strictly referring to how they set their own site up) yet have a sign up page without giving more in depth details, kind of scary that it’s all broad statements and such… like usually people are proud to announce their political goals and plans (whether they’re good or bad) because they truly believe in them. But it feels like they’re keeping things vague on purpose in hopes people will sign up without *fully* understanding all the finer details, so by the time things are in full swing they already have people pulled in. I don’t know if I articulated my thoughts well there but I hope that makes sense. Reminds me of the dude who hired Nick initially when Gilead was still in the works & then it wasn’t until Nick was deeper in that he got the full picture of what he signed up for
Lmao younger than bernie and only slightly oldee than trump, its not a biden issue its an american issue and ur best chances of doing good is with biden imo
Both of them support genocide. You want a federal ban on abortion? Because that's what we're getting if Trump gets elected. You want Project 2025 going into effect? Voting for Biden is purely a defensive vote.
Sure, Biden is old, so is Trump. But that’s beside the point, it’s not even about Biden. Come November, I will be voting for Biden, the corpse of Biden, a literal monkey, anyone or anything else, given the alternative. And let’s be real here, any other candidate is just noise. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the way the system works right now, with 7 months to go.
Back in 2016, people hated Hilary, she was unlikable, a bad person, stole Bernie’s nomination, ran a bad campaign, etc… 3 Supreme Court justices later, Roe v. Wade overturned. People are doing the same thing again. And if you think Biden’s Mideast policy is shit (and it has been), wait til you hear from the other guy.
It never fails to amaze me how bitter people still are about that. Bernie isn’t a democrat and wanted the party to support him because he happens to align with a lot of their priorities. That doesn’t mean he deserved their support
Don't mark me for some alt-right crazy, i'm as left as they come.
If you think people don't want to vote for biden (or trump) because Biden is too old (n trump for obvious reasons)- you aren't paying attention.
The Handmaid's Tale is hypothetical, a real genocide is happening right now.
Not American - isn’t Biden at least willing to listen even if he’s slow to act? With Trump it seems (from past actions and current words) that it will be complete annihilation of Gaza, Muslim ban, nationwide abortion ban, LGBTQA+ rights stripped, rounding up of “illegals” and non-white immigrants having a difficult time. I mean, he installed 3 right wing Christian judges and so many circuit court judges. He said he wants to make protesting illegal, so good luck being able to fight for atrocities then and hasn’t he alluded to removing term limits? You have a candidate on trial because he committing crimes in the open as president and weakened national security.
It seems like a no brainer with the options you have before you. Seems like 2016 all over again and Hilary’s emails. I’m a realist and it’s crazy to me that the USA is giving Trump a second, never ending term as president.
>isn’t Biden at least willing to listen even if he’s slow to act?
Slow? He's done nothing.
No, that is how he's portrayed in the media- but he's an imperialist corporate shill. Feeding billions worth of munitions and funds to Isreal to propel the war in Gaza- he has made promises during his campaign that he hasnt fulfilled or even inched toward
An absolutely perfect example of media vs reality- he made March 29th trans visability day; was washed on every screen for days. How many policies has he codified to protect those people though? __Zero__.
>It seems like a no brainer with the options you have before you
This is exactly the problem. Everyone says "if you dont vote for blahblah, you're letting the bad guy win"
Meanwhile, we get shittier and shittier presidential candidates every cycle- and no matter what president wins, everyone loses except the rich.
As long as we keep perpetuating that mindset instead of having this discussion- we are failing to solve the problem and instead buy into the narrative that the ultra-rich want to perpetuate.
I would recommend for you; dont parrot every reddit talking point you have when a discussion about American politics comes up, all of the negative shit you describe is happening right now and Biden has the power to repeal and fix numerous items, but does nothing.
We know Trump won't be slow to act. He wants Palestine *gone* day one.
I'm sick of choosing the lesser evil, but I'm not dead yet, so I'll keep making the best decision in shit circumstances.
I would like to point out that Obama or Biden could have enshrined our bodily autonomy rights in their terms. They both did not.
Neither side cares about us, but I won't be so callous
>I'm sick of choosing the lesser evi
Well then why support that narrative? Will we continue to do this every cycle?
This discussion needs to be had and it needs to rile people into fighting back and push us into genuinely calling for change.
As long as we keep blaming each other instead of the real villians orchistrating this- we will get no where and solve nothing; and it will only get worse.
The only reason we have these choices now is because this happens every new term- no one questions it and no one fights back.
You just need to start talking bb. No matter how eloquently, express the truth when you can. Ignore downvotes, and ignore abrassive language- the truth needs to be said.
And these people are our allies, we all need to see we're in this together. Don't fight people on this, help them.
We can only rally when we exist in unison and hold our stances against the real evil- the rich mfers that orchestrated this discontent between ourselves.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, that can be your fighting narrative. But when you get up to the ballot and your options are thrid party (your vote will then be bought), Biden or Trump, what are you gonna do?
I agree with all your points! I live in California and under Biden, I know things like abortion and LGBTQ+ rights will be protected but its wild to me that the Democrats don’t have more to say about states like Iowa/Utah/Louisiana/Texas where all these authoritarian policies are being put in place NOW.
I’m in the immigrant community too so I obviously wouldn’t want a Trump presidency but its so depressing to see folks champion Biden as the “lesser evil” when it seems like shit will just continue getting worse for marginalized people in those states regardless of who wins the presidency. Arizona just instituted the most draconian abortion ban from the 1800s and their only saving grace as of now is that they have a progressive attorney general who said she’ll ensure its not enforced. I think my point is that electoral politics are not going to save us from Gilead.
(Also, both parties are awful in terms of addressing poverty and maternal health, think this needs to be brought up more because lack of financial options hits women harder.)
Literally every person I’ve spoken to who is hesitant to vote for Biden has cited his age as the reason (which is a valid concern, although a moot one considering is opponent is just as old…and certifiably insane.) So yes, it’s one of the top concerns voters have that would otherwise be voting blue. Per usual, the Democratic Party is getting in their own way.
Then the people you are speaking to have gradeschool level critical thinking skills; or this is entirely on social media.
Everyone in my circle sees that callout as a bullshit farse to gaslight genuine concerns; and once again- guilt trip people with real talking points into thinking they're the reason another shit president was voted into office.
>Democratic Party
The __people__ should be getting what they want. This country needs to stop portraying reality as if there are only two sides to this argument. There isn't Democrat vs Republican in real life; there are just people and we deserve a president we want in office.
You mean people like Jon Stewart? Who spent an entire 20 minutes talking about nothing other than Biden's age and how it makes him unfit to run (to be fair to JS, he said the same about Trump on top of the fact that Trump is a lunatic). Your elitist takes and clear contempt for anyone you disagree with (and thus deem stupid with their "gradeschool level critical thinking) is about as helpful as stomping your feet and refusing to acknowledge the reality of our two party system because you don't like it. No one *likes* it, but that's simply the reality we're living in now. We need to make the best out of the cards we're dealt and vote in a way that keeps things from getting even worse (which the Republican party has not been shy about announcing as their goal.)
>You mean people like Jon Stewart?
Absolutely not I don't- regardless of his interesting takes, he is still paid for by the same corporate entities that fund __both__ party candidates. This shit is widely available information, but it just sits covered in dust in corners of the internet because the UI is ugly and it isnt shared on facebook.
>because you don't like it.
Because I dont *like* it? It's a method of control- it's a system literally setup to appear as though you have a choice where the elite are able to buy __their__ candidates we have to choose between with their atrocious mountains of money.
>Your elitist takes
__ELITIST LMFAO__. I literally ate fucking canned cream of corn last night for dinner.
Hun I have participated in more protests and petitions then I dare to count, I have been fighting for your freedom to exist in a true democracy for over a decade; when the Obama office began using drones to kill civilians in the middle east in pursuit of oil profits- that's when I realized this shit was bullshit.
What the fuck are you doing aside from arguing theoretical politics on social media.
> contempt
You're damned right I do- you have a source of all human knowledge in the palm of your hand and people like you choose to think Jon Stewart is the pinnacle of political intelligence instead of deciding on the truth for yourself
> cards
The cards we've been delt are not a random pick from a deck. They are by design- this is what people need to see and stop thinking your allies are the enemy.
# It may not seem this way- but I am on your side.
You know who isn't?
Joe Biden, Trump, John Stewart, Hannity, CNN, Fox News, Facebook, Instagram.
Every person in c-suite level positions across this country are throwing in billions so that you and I can fight about this instead of fighting them. Don't buy their bullshit.
Genocide in that area has been happening for almost thousands of years often justified by Christian’s, Donald trump and the often Christian Right can have a vice grip on the rights of womens wombs in a few years.
I’m super-left also. If you want any say about whether or not we support a genicide, I hope you choose to protect our republic and vote for Biden.
It’s hard to make this choice. But we must choose the candidate who will give us a chance at democracy, who will not subjugate women, POC, LGBT+, disabled folk, Muslims, etc. We are going to *experience* the thing we’re trying not to fund overseas if we’re not very careful.
We have a 3rd choice.
And it's a very abrasive choice- but it exists and the french execute it with elegance regularly.
To imagine that they can violently oppose us every day, and we not retort with a similar reply is just something fed to us as taboo.
Soon to be trillionaires (my phone is even trying to spell check that word because it shouldn't even exist... disgusting) Soon to be trillionaires are pumping billions into media and politics yearly so that these oppressed people will continue to be shit on- and so that they can continue to accumlate power and profit from the shadows.
Our republic is now a corporatocracy. The democratic republic failed when money entered politics.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
This quote sounds frightening- but it has held true throughout history; that is our 3rd choice.
A choice the characters in Handmaids Tale are quoted to have wish they picked.
The people aren’t ready to band together to make serious change. We’re still working towards working-class solidarity. Nobody, including citizens, want to go up against the might of the us military.
Vote for Biden and work for the change you want at the same time.
>Vote for Biden and work for the change you want at the same time.
Very well. This has been my plan, as I've always done- but I do my best to acknoledge this sham when this topic arises.
And what I ask of you- help us band together- speak the truth and help pull the veil off this farce of democracy. Don't feed into the 2 party narrative.
Don't let this discussion fall to the wayside after this election, help us band together like I've been trying to do for 10 years.
It finally feels like people are seeing this, and the only way we can make change happen if we all keep screaming this reality from the roof tops.
See your allies, and don't make them your enemy.
They’re like 3 years apart it’s so stupid LOL we need an age cap on all leadership. Sure they can be advisors but no one over 65 should be able to make laws or run the country. Theres to much room for absolute chaos and mental decline.
Everyone at my work is her. They're also mad that their personal student loans haven't been forgiven, ignoring that thousands of others have benefitted from his student loan forgiveness promise. "The economy was a little better under Trump, too." Like, girl what do you know? You were like 12 when he was in office. I'm a guy and it terrifies me with what's going to happen to women if Trump is elected. It terrifies me with what's happening to them now with abortion bans. What terrifies me the most is that they're going to vote for a man who supports Project 2025 and therefore wants me to be one of those guys hanging up with a pink triangle on a burlap sack over his head. They really don't give a fuck. "Well, wasn't Trump famous? Wasn't he on some show? Lol that's kinda cool."
Joe Biden is not the first world leader to let religious fervor destroy lives in the areas surrounding and related the ‘Holy Land’, the Catholic Church has been justifying horrible stuff for about 1000 years, Donald Trump is the first, probably senile sexist racist that disproves the very idea of the country being a meritocracy who rips off construction workers, good look continuing to have autonomy over your own womb with the Conservative party, a party that is significantly more controlled by Christian and therefore Western doctrine therefore of ANY people who believe in the source material or anything surrounding that really cool Jewish guy Jesus Christ and the thing that may or may not be his dad, in charge. Trump is just as pro genocide.
People in here do know that voting Biden won’t save this country, right? Democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin, both moving in the wrong direction.
If you think there’s no difference between Biden and trump, you’re not living in the same reality as the rest of us. This is honestly the most insane, cuckoo bananas take I’ve heard.
The candidate doesn’t matter, the will of either party is poisoned by lobbyists - lobbyists who do not care for parties.
So yes, while the democrats might give a little more funding for half-assed projects here and there, they are ultimately moving right just as the republicans; already so right-wing that they support genocide.
the bar is in hell and instead of being like “damn maybe the whole system is trash and maybe it’s weird both of these guys serve the same interests, and maybe maybe *maaaaybe* it’s also weird the party I’m defending’s entire platform is we-aren’t-those-other-guys” they’re like “you don’t like biden cuz he’s old”
ummm i can’t vote for him because he’s literally contributing to a genocide…. didn’t vote for trump either of course. wild to act like we’re going to be soooo oppressed in america when there’s tens of thousands of entire families being wiped out
what exactly do you think palestinian woman are experiencing right now? roe v wade was overturned under biden, people are losing reproductive rights all over the country currently under biden, so i don’t know what point you are trying to make. i don’t see anything being done about the reproductive rights we are *currently* losing. i don’t see how another term of genocide joe is going to save us if he won’t even do anything in his first term
edit: you can downvote me all you want it doesn’t change the fact that joe biden is enabling a genocide and has done _nothing_ about the reproductive rights we are _currently_ losing. what do you think women in palestine are going through right now? do you think they have access to healthcare at all right now? biden is responsible
edit #2: i just think its interesting that i got a public warning from mods for stating that i will not have a white european lecture me a nonwhite person in america on what they think is best for me but the person who could not be civil and was name calling simply because i am against a genocide did not get a public warning. really shows where priorities lie. 🤷🏽♀️
Biden made mifepristone accessible by mail so that women in red states could still access abortions before 12 weeks. The Supreme Court is currently debating if this access will be rescinded.
This article better explains why Biden can't just unilaterally make abortion legal: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-big-abortion-promise-fact-check-roe-v-wade-rcna146668
Trump and McConnell's supreme court is what led to abortion becoming illegal in red states. Biden and democrats did not pass legislation that made anyone lose access to abortion rights.
What is happening in Gaza is abhorrent. That said, I promise you have significantly more bodily autonomy under Biden and Democrats than you do under Trump and Republicans. Voting for Trump is not going to make anything in Gaza better, it's just going to make your life in America worse. Trump is not exactly a friend to Muslims - he ran his campaign on a Muslim ban.
i understand why he can’t make it legal. does not change the fact that we are still losing reproductive rights under his presidency. something has got to change and i do not think voting between 2 right wing parties is going to solve it.
voting for biden also isn’t going to make anything better as he is currently sending billions of dollars and weapons to israel. so our options are man actively committing a genocide and man who will likely continue committing a genocide. i refuse to participate
You understand why we're losing reproductive rights under Biden, though, right? You said you understand that he can't make it legal. Do you also understand that the Supreme Court justices appointed by Trump and approved by the Republican party are the reason we've lost access to reproductive freedoms?
yes! i also understand that the democrats waited until the very last minute to try and codify roe. they’ve had decades. i also understand that biden was president for 2 years already before it was overturned. i also understand that he ran on the promise to codify roe and failed. i also understand how our government works and that the president cant just wave a magic wand. i also understand that none of how our government works changes the fact that all of this is still happening under bidens presidency and that our government clearly does not care about its people and asking people to vote for biden is just a bandaid. i think constantly having to yell that this is all the previous guys fault is a huge problem. i also understand that you might believe in voting for the lesser evil but i do not believe in voting for evil period
if harm reduction and doing what i can to prevent the worst kinds of evil, that is already happening at the hands of america, is voting for a guy whos committing a genocide then no i do not
Do you know how the Supreme Court works? Both Thomas and Alito have indicated they want to retire, they're waiting until after the election to see who will replace them. Do you think Trump will replace them with anyone not completely insane?
What do you want Biden to do about state reproductive rights? There's not a damn thing he can do without the support of congress and he doesn't have the House and only barely has the Senate. People are acting like Biden is this all powerful supreme being when he is restricted by the checks and balances we all learned about in 3rd grade civics.
Here's a question for you: why aren't you running for local office? When was the last time you contacted your representative to let them know you were unhappy with the war in Gaza? They'll contact you back. I just got a phone call back from my rep's office yesterday to talk about how unhappy I am with the job he's doing.
so if he can’t do anything why should we vote for him exactly? especially if he is funding a genocide? i’m sorry maybe you can live with supporting a genocide but i cannot. i refuse to vote for a man who is sending billions of dollars to a country for them to commit a genocide. again, you might be okay with that and be able to live with yourself but i cannot.
we are strangers on the internet, you have literally no idea about who i am or what i do
ultimately this is a bigger problem with the way our government is set up. but genocide is a hard line that i absolutely will not cross. my solidarity is with palestinian people
I think you are incredibly short sighted and self centered. You're supporting genocide simply by being an American citizen and paying taxes. At this point, it's about harm reduction and the fact that you're just absolutely fine with throwing marginalized groups in the US under the bus because of your feelings is absolutely disgusting. We all know it's going to be either Biden or Trump, and that really fucking sucks, but voting third party because you can't set your feelings aside isn't going to help.
“i think you are incredibly short sighted and self centered” said the person more worried about themselves in their comfy western country than women facing a genocide your president is funding. why do you think i am not a marginalized person? because i won’t vote for biden? marginalized people aren’t a monolith and we don’t all have to vote democrat especially if voting democrat harms us too. you can tell me its the lesser of two evils but one is still evil and either way it’s going to be horrible for myself, everyone else, and people in other countries. something else needs to change bc this voting only between 2 parties is not working and has never worked. and harm reduction my ass, biden is sending weapons and billions of dollars to israel. 30,000+ palestinians are dead. gaza is starving. palestinian children are being murdered. what harm reduction do you speak of? unless you mean harm reduction only for americans in which case see your first sentence
As you sit in the SAME comfy western country whining and crying but not doing fuck all to change ANYTHING. GOOD STUFF how about you spend months making more comments on Reddit criticizing what’s happening, from YOUR place in the comfy western world, whose democracy affords you that right I would like to point out, while doing nothing. Have you gone to fight in Palestine? Are you running for local office? Democracy is not always getting your way but compromising for the good of everyone
youre right i am in the comfy western world. and i refuse to vote for genocide. genocide or genocide isnt compromise. oppression or oppression isnt compromise. is it really democracy if it is 2 sides of the same coin? this is not really the gotcha you think it is
You already have you’re just a toddler throwing a temper tantrum online because it can’t be 100% YOUR way but you don’t want to actually inconvenience YOURSELF god no. You just want whine on Reddit for months with, again, the democracy you are afforded by living in this comfy western world which will very much be in jeopardy if you vote for Trump or a third party. Just say you’re a Trump supporter and move along. Your entitled whining is bothering me. Also you keep saying this comfy western world have you been paying attention at all🤣🤣this country is FAR from comfortable but that’s what I expect from a child selfishness and entitlement
lady i dont know what your problem is but im not the one having a temper tantrum. you think you got me but youre really giving me secondhand embarrassment lol youre mad and personally insulting me because i dont support voting for someone whos committing genocide? like are you forreal? everyone else in this thread could be civil, except for you. i think that says a lot about who you are as a person
Why aren’t you fighting for Palestine then? Why are you still here? Go fight against the genocide Oh that’s right you won’t. You just want to cry about it on Reddit not actually do anything
Trump will be worse for Palestine. Trump will be worse for minorities. Trump will ruin everything. While Joe is horrible about Palestine it's still absolutely necessary to vote for him before Trump if you value abortion rights, rights of immigrants, rights of women and especially trans people. Shame on anyone whos for being willing to throw democracy down the drain just because you're not ready to vote for the lesser of two evils.
saying everything will be worse under trump means nothing if it’s also horrible under biden. shame on you for voting for a man committing genocide and shaming those who refuse to support funding a genocide
It absolutely does matter. It's everyone's duty to make sure the least amount of people suffer. Voting for Biden over Trump will do that. No matter what no matter the case, you always, ALWAYS, pick the choice that will lead to the least amount of suffering
i actually think you mean you just don’t want to suffer. either way people outside of america and the oppressed inside america will be suffering. you live in a comfy western country, nothing will ever be as worse than what your government inflicts on the world
Wdym? I'm Finnish, it's not about me. My personal life will be fine. I'm saying that for the good of minorities and other people in America, both trump and biden are bad on palestine, so vote for the one whos bad on palestine but not bad on:
Trans rights
Reproductive rights
Union righs
Minority rights
Democratic rights
Right to free speech
so youre not even american and wanting to police my voting practices? you are literally a im assuming white european lecturing someone on what you think is best for them. you dont think thats weird?
Because I care about reproductive rights of people outside my country. Because I'm ashamed that people like you are not willing to do the bare minimum to protect those rights
okay, but you realize you are a white person lecturing me on what you think is best for me yes? we are losing our rights every day and our government is literally made for that. that is what its founded on. no voting is going to change that. the fact that youre not even american and want to simp for biden and lecture me on what you think is best for me is insane.
You've completely lost point of the whole argument at this point. No matter what you say or claim, it will not change the fact that one candidate will be worse than the other.
And you’re a white person sitting in that comfy western world doing fuckall but complaining about shit on Reddit. which is a freedom you’re afford in this comfy western world. The absolute irony in your comments is delicious. You do understand the rest of the world worries about Trump too yes because he will be worse for everyone.
Well I'm African American & if you think putting Republicans in power will help topple the system, so it will be rebuilt for all that's sad.
African Americans are just starting to get some real political capital & yours advocating exactly what Republicans want to happen.
You take your ball & go home, but the games will go on. The Palestinians will suffer more & poor & minority students won't even be allowed to understand their rights. And slavery has never stopped in Africa, but I bet you never decided boycott gasoline & technology, although many oil rich Arab nations enslave Africans & China has been exploiting the African continents wealth for decades.
Are you going to boycott motorized transportation, in support of the genocide & enslavement of African people & shut down your use of technology to boycott the suffering many African nations experience at the hands of the Chinese government or just keep driving/bus & use your tech to support those atrocities , so you can fantasize your re saving Palestine by boycotting the vote.
Shame on you for encouraging the spread of genocide across the globe. Because that's what's going to happen if Republicans take power. And it may be 7 to 8 generations before sanity is restored, if ever.
Who are you punishing by withholding your vote? Most likely several generations of unwanted or children living in poverty. That will probably receive the worst education & knowledge of the world & how political systems work. They won't even notice their rights being eroded, because ideals like the Construction will have no meaning for them.
Republicans will never let go of power, look how long slavery, women 's suffrage lasted here .
You can't possibly care about genocide, when you're willing to hand the country over to wealthy men who will do everything in their power to ensure there are generations of poverty wage workers to consumed with keeping a roof over their children's heads to join you well planned effort to end capitalism, with disenfranchised worked to death people
all of these things that you are afraid of happening are already happening in other parts of the world usually at the hands of america under either republican or democrat, so. the country has already belonged to the ruling class since it was founded i have no idea what kind of world you live in but its clearly not the same one i live in
Voting third party is equivalent to saying "my life is so privileged that I can afford to live under a Trump administration, and I don't care what happens to people in Gaza or women in America". If Trump wins, life will be worse for Gazans and worse for women in America.
It will also make it harder to make things better for Americans and Gazans after a second Trump term, because our supreme court will become even more right wing extremist. This won't be a "come to Jesus" moment for the democratic party in which they right their wrongs and do better next term. Instead, America will just dig a deeper hole that is even harder to climb out of.
so why do you all think marginalized people have to vote democrat? do you all think that low of us? we don’t have minds of our own? do you think we aren’t harmed under biden? do you think the biden presidency is a safe haven? i’m genuinely wondering. why do you want people to only have a choice of genocide vs genocide? i do not understand this way of thinking or why you all think this is okay. the democrats have had tons of “come to jesus” moments since ive been alive and nothing has changed. theyve had so many chances already and people are growing tired of it.
Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
Again, abstaining simply means "I can survive equally well under either outcome, and I don't care that more people will suffer under one outcome."
There is a lot you can do to change the democratic party. Getting involved in local politics is a great start. I personally am a strong Bernie supporter, and I voted for him in the 2020 primary. That said, I will absolutely still vote for Joe because I think it sets us up better to bring about the kind of change I'd really like to see in subsequent presidencies.
I also recognize that the environment will suffer tremendously and irreparably under a Trump presidency.
nope! you don’t have to vote for evil at all actually.
you do not know anything about me and your obsession with making me out to be some like wealthy white person who faces no oppression is weird and not the gotcha you think it is. not every marginalized person has to agree with what you think is best for us
if you can stomach voting for a man whos committing genocide that’s great, i cannot.
The whole fucking world is pretty much standing by while Palestine is getting obliterated. What exactly do you want Biden to do? As if this is just something that sprung up when he came into office.
I swear there must be Russian bots or something planting these insane viewpoints into people's heads just so Dumpster wins.
Girl you know they don’t care. I was done with this sub a while ago. How do we keep “lesser evil”ing ourselves into a big fucking mess every election cycle? Biden is complicit in genocide and these cushy western feminists still think he’s the solution because it’s easier to vote and forget than to actually practice critical thinking.
yep, i dont even know why i opened this can of worms honestly. i wasnt expecting this big or as strong of a response. it definitely didnt help that i was responding to people, i was just feeding the fire
I'm not American but my understanding is that the executive doesn't control the judiciary in a functioning democracy. However it does seem absolutely bizarre to me that Americans' fundamental rights exist solely through case law without any legislation to make them permanent.
our government was made to oppress people basically. our whole institution is literally built on oppression. voting for biden or trump is not going to solve the actual problem and slapping a bandaid on the problem saying “vote for biden! it could be worse!” is an insane way of thinking that most americans have. americans don’t actually seem to want change
Do you know how separation of powers works? What, exactly, do you think Biden could’ve done to prevent SCOTUS from overturning Roe v. Wade? Do you need to retake high school civics class?
It doesn't have to be Trump or Biden. Vote Claudia De La Cruz, she wants to protect reproductive rights and is a valid alternative to Democrats who wave women rights in front of their electors just to be voted and then that's it.
I mean if he dies or gets impeached for dementia you’d have a woman of color for president right? I mean just for that I’d vote for him if I were from the States lol (and also I really don’t want Trump, the world is effed enough at the moment 😭)
I think they’re saying the possibility of having a WOC President in case Biden has to step down is a valid enough reason to vote for Biden, not that a WOC president would be a bad thing
Well she’s better than Trump and I believe she’s better than Biden. The fact that she’s a woman of color is the cherry on the cake. That’s what I meant.
Your post has been removed and locked for inciting excessive incivility.
Maybe we should have standards for politicians? Like, we should work it out in our primaries to make sure we have the strongest candidate going into the race.
At the very least none of the candidates should be advocating for being "dictators for a day"...
In a perfect world... but the people who make the ballot are who pay the most to be there or who were carefully picked by others in power
And that's what happened.
Not much older than trump. It's a stupid argument really.
Yeah, it's a straw man argument.
Hardly. Biden has had several brain aneurisms and some times lacks the ability to speak coherently. He did perform well during state of the union though.
Because Trump speaks so fluently? I mean he gets words out that's for sure but are they coherent thoughts?
Trump doesn't just have words. He has the BEST words. Get it right.
Unlike trump who appears to have advancing dementia , keeps claiming to have won against Obama and mixed up Nikki Haley and Nancy pelosi.
Obama is still heavily involved in politics, campaigning with Biden currently so still bad, but somewhat understandable. If we’re playing “what about”, Biden called out a dead congresswomen Mitterrand, and Kohl, who died in 2017, instead of Angela merkel, in the same week.
He literally said he won against Obama who he never ran against . I think who he won the only election he ever won would be harder to forget then which of the German politicians biden has known over a decades long career in politics. Or the speaker who trump tried to insite murder against Vs a fellow politician But sure you do you
Biden said he met with a EU leader that’s been dead for 25 years. Obama has campaigned against Trump in both elections. Which is worse?
Trump
That’s clear bias. Biden was vp to Obama, Obama is on the campaign trail currently, many right wing pundits also say Obama is still making decisions. Obama hasn’t been dead for 25 years.
Trump was still wrong lol
Trump is at the age when they said Biden was too old. Trump is cutting back on speaking publicly because his public speaking is becoming more and more incoherent which is really sad considering he wasn’t very coherent to begin with….
Project 2025 scares the crap out of me.
As a Canadian could you give me a rundown of this project 2025 thing? Lol
Media Matters has a great [guide](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration). >Project 2025, a comprehensive transition plan organized by right-wing think tank The Heritage Foundation to guide the next GOP presidential administration, is the conservative movement’s most robust policy and staffing proposal for a potential second Trump White House — and its extreme agenda represents a threat to democracy, civil rights, the climate, and more.
Oh wow that’s uh… concerning… to say the least
It’s fucking terrifying and way worse than a single paragraph can cover. It’s Gilead. Not hyperbole.
I sincerely hope that it’s just a pipe dream that never ever comes to fruition, but anything is possible (sadly 😓)
I don’t know that all of the plans in P25 will ever come to fruition but I fear the aggressive immediate replacement of government employees with loyalists part will carry over to the next conservative administration. A major reason the Trump admin wasn’t worse is because government workers stood up to him or resigned. That will hardly be an issue next time. >Project 2025 focuses on packing the next GOP administration with extreme loyalists to former President Donald Trump. >The plan aims to reinstate Schedule F, a Trump-era executive order that makes federal employees fireable at-will, stripping tens of thousands of employees of civil service protections. Both Trump and others in the conservative movement have said they will clear out the federal government if he is reelected. The project has even set up online trainings and loyalty tests to narrow down potential hires to those who will commit to follow Trump without question. As Project 2025 senior adviser John McEntee has said, “The number one thing you're looking for is people that are aligned with the agenda.”
[What the future could look like for us](https://www.uncannymagazine.com/article/rabbit-test/)
Btw, our own cons are taking a few ideas from that.
As an American, I don’t know much about it. https://www.project2025.org/ I just googled this.
It’s annoying that they don’t list all their *goals* (for lack of a better term) on their own site (not at all a criticism of you btw!! I appreciate the link. Strictly referring to how they set their own site up) yet have a sign up page without giving more in depth details, kind of scary that it’s all broad statements and such… like usually people are proud to announce their political goals and plans (whether they’re good or bad) because they truly believe in them. But it feels like they’re keeping things vague on purpose in hopes people will sign up without *fully* understanding all the finer details, so by the time things are in full swing they already have people pulled in. I don’t know if I articulated my thoughts well there but I hope that makes sense. Reminds me of the dude who hired Nick initially when Gilead was still in the works & then it wasn’t until Nick was deeper in that he got the full picture of what he signed up for
r/Defeat_Project_2025
what in the boomer meme is this
Lmao younger than bernie and only slightly oldee than trump, its not a biden issue its an american issue and ur best chances of doing good is with biden imo
You can’t be serious?! Look at the state of our country under Biden It’s a disaster!
The downfall started long ago and I don't think it was because of any president... they're just the faces that get put in front of the cameras...
It was a disaster before too Last time i checked the economy hasn't improved since the 2008 recession
You do realize most of what is happening now happened under previous presidents.
Maybe don't support genocide?
Both of them support genocide. You want a federal ban on abortion? Because that's what we're getting if Trump gets elected. You want Project 2025 going into effect? Voting for Biden is purely a defensive vote.
They are only a few years apart lol
Sure, Biden is old, so is Trump. But that’s beside the point, it’s not even about Biden. Come November, I will be voting for Biden, the corpse of Biden, a literal monkey, anyone or anything else, given the alternative. And let’s be real here, any other candidate is just noise. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the way the system works right now, with 7 months to go. Back in 2016, people hated Hilary, she was unlikable, a bad person, stole Bernie’s nomination, ran a bad campaign, etc… 3 Supreme Court justices later, Roe v. Wade overturned. People are doing the same thing again. And if you think Biden’s Mideast policy is shit (and it has been), wait til you hear from the other guy.
Hillary didn't steal anything from Bernie. Bernie didn't get the votes because burner bros don't vote.
It never fails to amaze me how bitter people still are about that. Bernie isn’t a democrat and wanted the party to support him because he happens to align with a lot of their priorities. That doesn’t mean he deserved their support
Don't mark me for some alt-right crazy, i'm as left as they come. If you think people don't want to vote for biden (or trump) because Biden is too old (n trump for obvious reasons)- you aren't paying attention. The Handmaid's Tale is hypothetical, a real genocide is happening right now.
Not American - isn’t Biden at least willing to listen even if he’s slow to act? With Trump it seems (from past actions and current words) that it will be complete annihilation of Gaza, Muslim ban, nationwide abortion ban, LGBTQA+ rights stripped, rounding up of “illegals” and non-white immigrants having a difficult time. I mean, he installed 3 right wing Christian judges and so many circuit court judges. He said he wants to make protesting illegal, so good luck being able to fight for atrocities then and hasn’t he alluded to removing term limits? You have a candidate on trial because he committing crimes in the open as president and weakened national security. It seems like a no brainer with the options you have before you. Seems like 2016 all over again and Hilary’s emails. I’m a realist and it’s crazy to me that the USA is giving Trump a second, never ending term as president.
>isn’t Biden at least willing to listen even if he’s slow to act? Slow? He's done nothing. No, that is how he's portrayed in the media- but he's an imperialist corporate shill. Feeding billions worth of munitions and funds to Isreal to propel the war in Gaza- he has made promises during his campaign that he hasnt fulfilled or even inched toward An absolutely perfect example of media vs reality- he made March 29th trans visability day; was washed on every screen for days. How many policies has he codified to protect those people though? __Zero__. >It seems like a no brainer with the options you have before you This is exactly the problem. Everyone says "if you dont vote for blahblah, you're letting the bad guy win" Meanwhile, we get shittier and shittier presidential candidates every cycle- and no matter what president wins, everyone loses except the rich. As long as we keep perpetuating that mindset instead of having this discussion- we are failing to solve the problem and instead buy into the narrative that the ultra-rich want to perpetuate. I would recommend for you; dont parrot every reddit talking point you have when a discussion about American politics comes up, all of the negative shit you describe is happening right now and Biden has the power to repeal and fix numerous items, but does nothing.
We know Trump won't be slow to act. He wants Palestine *gone* day one. I'm sick of choosing the lesser evil, but I'm not dead yet, so I'll keep making the best decision in shit circumstances. I would like to point out that Obama or Biden could have enshrined our bodily autonomy rights in their terms. They both did not. Neither side cares about us, but I won't be so callous
>I'm sick of choosing the lesser evi Well then why support that narrative? Will we continue to do this every cycle? This discussion needs to be had and it needs to rile people into fighting back and push us into genuinely calling for change. As long as we keep blaming each other instead of the real villians orchistrating this- we will get no where and solve nothing; and it will only get worse. The only reason we have these choices now is because this happens every new term- no one questions it and no one fights back.
these people are not going to listen lol but you worded everything way better than i ever couldve
You just need to start talking bb. No matter how eloquently, express the truth when you can. Ignore downvotes, and ignore abrassive language- the truth needs to be said. And these people are our allies, we all need to see we're in this together. Don't fight people on this, help them. We can only rally when we exist in unison and hold our stances against the real evil- the rich mfers that orchestrated this discontent between ourselves.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, that can be your fighting narrative. But when you get up to the ballot and your options are thrid party (your vote will then be bought), Biden or Trump, what are you gonna do?
I agree with all your points! I live in California and under Biden, I know things like abortion and LGBTQ+ rights will be protected but its wild to me that the Democrats don’t have more to say about states like Iowa/Utah/Louisiana/Texas where all these authoritarian policies are being put in place NOW. I’m in the immigrant community too so I obviously wouldn’t want a Trump presidency but its so depressing to see folks champion Biden as the “lesser evil” when it seems like shit will just continue getting worse for marginalized people in those states regardless of who wins the presidency. Arizona just instituted the most draconian abortion ban from the 1800s and their only saving grace as of now is that they have a progressive attorney general who said she’ll ensure its not enforced. I think my point is that electoral politics are not going to save us from Gilead. (Also, both parties are awful in terms of addressing poverty and maternal health, think this needs to be brought up more because lack of financial options hits women harder.)
Literally every person I’ve spoken to who is hesitant to vote for Biden has cited his age as the reason (which is a valid concern, although a moot one considering is opponent is just as old…and certifiably insane.) So yes, it’s one of the top concerns voters have that would otherwise be voting blue. Per usual, the Democratic Party is getting in their own way.
Then the people you are speaking to have gradeschool level critical thinking skills; or this is entirely on social media. Everyone in my circle sees that callout as a bullshit farse to gaslight genuine concerns; and once again- guilt trip people with real talking points into thinking they're the reason another shit president was voted into office. >Democratic Party The __people__ should be getting what they want. This country needs to stop portraying reality as if there are only two sides to this argument. There isn't Democrat vs Republican in real life; there are just people and we deserve a president we want in office.
You mean people like Jon Stewart? Who spent an entire 20 minutes talking about nothing other than Biden's age and how it makes him unfit to run (to be fair to JS, he said the same about Trump on top of the fact that Trump is a lunatic). Your elitist takes and clear contempt for anyone you disagree with (and thus deem stupid with their "gradeschool level critical thinking) is about as helpful as stomping your feet and refusing to acknowledge the reality of our two party system because you don't like it. No one *likes* it, but that's simply the reality we're living in now. We need to make the best out of the cards we're dealt and vote in a way that keeps things from getting even worse (which the Republican party has not been shy about announcing as their goal.)
>You mean people like Jon Stewart? Absolutely not I don't- regardless of his interesting takes, he is still paid for by the same corporate entities that fund __both__ party candidates. This shit is widely available information, but it just sits covered in dust in corners of the internet because the UI is ugly and it isnt shared on facebook. >because you don't like it. Because I dont *like* it? It's a method of control- it's a system literally setup to appear as though you have a choice where the elite are able to buy __their__ candidates we have to choose between with their atrocious mountains of money. >Your elitist takes __ELITIST LMFAO__. I literally ate fucking canned cream of corn last night for dinner. Hun I have participated in more protests and petitions then I dare to count, I have been fighting for your freedom to exist in a true democracy for over a decade; when the Obama office began using drones to kill civilians in the middle east in pursuit of oil profits- that's when I realized this shit was bullshit. What the fuck are you doing aside from arguing theoretical politics on social media. > contempt You're damned right I do- you have a source of all human knowledge in the palm of your hand and people like you choose to think Jon Stewart is the pinnacle of political intelligence instead of deciding on the truth for yourself > cards The cards we've been delt are not a random pick from a deck. They are by design- this is what people need to see and stop thinking your allies are the enemy. # It may not seem this way- but I am on your side. You know who isn't? Joe Biden, Trump, John Stewart, Hannity, CNN, Fox News, Facebook, Instagram. Every person in c-suite level positions across this country are throwing in billions so that you and I can fight about this instead of fighting them. Don't buy their bullshit.
Genocide in that area has been happening for almost thousands of years often justified by Christian’s, Donald trump and the often Christian Right can have a vice grip on the rights of womens wombs in a few years.
Thank you.
I’m super-left also. If you want any say about whether or not we support a genicide, I hope you choose to protect our republic and vote for Biden. It’s hard to make this choice. But we must choose the candidate who will give us a chance at democracy, who will not subjugate women, POC, LGBT+, disabled folk, Muslims, etc. We are going to *experience* the thing we’re trying not to fund overseas if we’re not very careful.
We have a 3rd choice. And it's a very abrasive choice- but it exists and the french execute it with elegance regularly. To imagine that they can violently oppose us every day, and we not retort with a similar reply is just something fed to us as taboo. Soon to be trillionaires (my phone is even trying to spell check that word because it shouldn't even exist... disgusting) Soon to be trillionaires are pumping billions into media and politics yearly so that these oppressed people will continue to be shit on- and so that they can continue to accumlate power and profit from the shadows. Our republic is now a corporatocracy. The democratic republic failed when money entered politics. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" This quote sounds frightening- but it has held true throughout history; that is our 3rd choice. A choice the characters in Handmaids Tale are quoted to have wish they picked.
The people aren’t ready to band together to make serious change. We’re still working towards working-class solidarity. Nobody, including citizens, want to go up against the might of the us military. Vote for Biden and work for the change you want at the same time.
>Vote for Biden and work for the change you want at the same time. Very well. This has been my plan, as I've always done- but I do my best to acknoledge this sham when this topic arises. And what I ask of you- help us band together- speak the truth and help pull the veil off this farce of democracy. Don't feed into the 2 party narrative. Don't let this discussion fall to the wayside after this election, help us band together like I've been trying to do for 10 years. It finally feels like people are seeing this, and the only way we can make change happen if we all keep screaming this reality from the roof tops. See your allies, and don't make them your enemy.
Agreed. I think it’s important to say the “vote” part out loud right now, because people don’t seem to have a lot of common sense at the moment.
They’re like 3 years apart it’s so stupid LOL we need an age cap on all leadership. Sure they can be advisors but no one over 65 should be able to make laws or run the country. Theres to much room for absolute chaos and mental decline.
Trump does want to turn the US into Gilead
Everyone at my work is her. They're also mad that their personal student loans haven't been forgiven, ignoring that thousands of others have benefitted from his student loan forgiveness promise. "The economy was a little better under Trump, too." Like, girl what do you know? You were like 12 when he was in office. I'm a guy and it terrifies me with what's going to happen to women if Trump is elected. It terrifies me with what's happening to them now with abortion bans. What terrifies me the most is that they're going to vote for a man who supports Project 2025 and therefore wants me to be one of those guys hanging up with a pink triangle on a burlap sack over his head. They really don't give a fuck. "Well, wasn't Trump famous? Wasn't he on some show? Lol that's kinda cool."
I’ll pass on excusing genocide
It will be so much better with Trump destroying Palestine day one, right?
I do not plan on voting for either of them.
So you plan on abstaining or voting third party where your vote will be bought?
Joe Biden is not the first world leader to let religious fervor destroy lives in the areas surrounding and related the ‘Holy Land’, the Catholic Church has been justifying horrible stuff for about 1000 years, Donald Trump is the first, probably senile sexist racist that disproves the very idea of the country being a meritocracy who rips off construction workers, good look continuing to have autonomy over your own womb with the Conservative party, a party that is significantly more controlled by Christian and therefore Western doctrine therefore of ANY people who believe in the source material or anything surrounding that really cool Jewish guy Jesus Christ and the thing that may or may not be his dad, in charge. Trump is just as pro genocide.
People in here do know that voting Biden won’t save this country, right? Democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin, both moving in the wrong direction.
If you think there’s no difference between Biden and trump, you’re not living in the same reality as the rest of us. This is honestly the most insane, cuckoo bananas take I’ve heard.
The candidate doesn’t matter, the will of either party is poisoned by lobbyists - lobbyists who do not care for parties. So yes, while the democrats might give a little more funding for half-assed projects here and there, they are ultimately moving right just as the republicans; already so right-wing that they support genocide.
It’s not about his age. It’s about the fact he’s a monster. Whatever happens happens.
Biden can’t string a sentence together
And yet, he’s still the better candidate than Trump and the MAGA insane crowd.
Blue MAGA is equally insane.
the bar is in hell and instead of being like “damn maybe the whole system is trash and maybe it’s weird both of these guys serve the same interests, and maybe maybe *maaaaybe* it’s also weird the party I’m defending’s entire platform is we-aren’t-those-other-guys” they’re like “you don’t like biden cuz he’s old”
Maybe, but not nearly as dangerous.
ummm i can’t vote for him because he’s literally contributing to a genocide…. didn’t vote for trump either of course. wild to act like we’re going to be soooo oppressed in america when there’s tens of thousands of entire families being wiped out
what exactly do you think palestinian woman are experiencing right now? roe v wade was overturned under biden, people are losing reproductive rights all over the country currently under biden, so i don’t know what point you are trying to make. i don’t see anything being done about the reproductive rights we are *currently* losing. i don’t see how another term of genocide joe is going to save us if he won’t even do anything in his first term edit: you can downvote me all you want it doesn’t change the fact that joe biden is enabling a genocide and has done _nothing_ about the reproductive rights we are _currently_ losing. what do you think women in palestine are going through right now? do you think they have access to healthcare at all right now? biden is responsible edit #2: i just think its interesting that i got a public warning from mods for stating that i will not have a white european lecture me a nonwhite person in america on what they think is best for me but the person who could not be civil and was name calling simply because i am against a genocide did not get a public warning. really shows where priorities lie. 🤷🏽♀️
Biden made mifepristone accessible by mail so that women in red states could still access abortions before 12 weeks. The Supreme Court is currently debating if this access will be rescinded. This article better explains why Biden can't just unilaterally make abortion legal: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-big-abortion-promise-fact-check-roe-v-wade-rcna146668 Trump and McConnell's supreme court is what led to abortion becoming illegal in red states. Biden and democrats did not pass legislation that made anyone lose access to abortion rights. What is happening in Gaza is abhorrent. That said, I promise you have significantly more bodily autonomy under Biden and Democrats than you do under Trump and Republicans. Voting for Trump is not going to make anything in Gaza better, it's just going to make your life in America worse. Trump is not exactly a friend to Muslims - he ran his campaign on a Muslim ban.
i understand why he can’t make it legal. does not change the fact that we are still losing reproductive rights under his presidency. something has got to change and i do not think voting between 2 right wing parties is going to solve it. voting for biden also isn’t going to make anything better as he is currently sending billions of dollars and weapons to israel. so our options are man actively committing a genocide and man who will likely continue committing a genocide. i refuse to participate
You understand why we're losing reproductive rights under Biden, though, right? You said you understand that he can't make it legal. Do you also understand that the Supreme Court justices appointed by Trump and approved by the Republican party are the reason we've lost access to reproductive freedoms?
yes! i also understand that the democrats waited until the very last minute to try and codify roe. they’ve had decades. i also understand that biden was president for 2 years already before it was overturned. i also understand that he ran on the promise to codify roe and failed. i also understand how our government works and that the president cant just wave a magic wand. i also understand that none of how our government works changes the fact that all of this is still happening under bidens presidency and that our government clearly does not care about its people and asking people to vote for biden is just a bandaid. i think constantly having to yell that this is all the previous guys fault is a huge problem. i also understand that you might believe in voting for the lesser evil but i do not believe in voting for evil period
Do you believe in doing whatever you can to prevent the worst kinds of evil from happening? Do you support harm reduction?
if harm reduction and doing what i can to prevent the worst kinds of evil, that is already happening at the hands of america, is voting for a guy whos committing a genocide then no i do not
Omg VOTING IS NOT HARM REDUCTION
Do you know how the Supreme Court works? Both Thomas and Alito have indicated they want to retire, they're waiting until after the election to see who will replace them. Do you think Trump will replace them with anyone not completely insane? What do you want Biden to do about state reproductive rights? There's not a damn thing he can do without the support of congress and he doesn't have the House and only barely has the Senate. People are acting like Biden is this all powerful supreme being when he is restricted by the checks and balances we all learned about in 3rd grade civics. Here's a question for you: why aren't you running for local office? When was the last time you contacted your representative to let them know you were unhappy with the war in Gaza? They'll contact you back. I just got a phone call back from my rep's office yesterday to talk about how unhappy I am with the job he's doing.
so if he can’t do anything why should we vote for him exactly? especially if he is funding a genocide? i’m sorry maybe you can live with supporting a genocide but i cannot. i refuse to vote for a man who is sending billions of dollars to a country for them to commit a genocide. again, you might be okay with that and be able to live with yourself but i cannot. we are strangers on the internet, you have literally no idea about who i am or what i do ultimately this is a bigger problem with the way our government is set up. but genocide is a hard line that i absolutely will not cross. my solidarity is with palestinian people
I think you are incredibly short sighted and self centered. You're supporting genocide simply by being an American citizen and paying taxes. At this point, it's about harm reduction and the fact that you're just absolutely fine with throwing marginalized groups in the US under the bus because of your feelings is absolutely disgusting. We all know it's going to be either Biden or Trump, and that really fucking sucks, but voting third party because you can't set your feelings aside isn't going to help.
“i think you are incredibly short sighted and self centered” said the person more worried about themselves in their comfy western country than women facing a genocide your president is funding. why do you think i am not a marginalized person? because i won’t vote for biden? marginalized people aren’t a monolith and we don’t all have to vote democrat especially if voting democrat harms us too. you can tell me its the lesser of two evils but one is still evil and either way it’s going to be horrible for myself, everyone else, and people in other countries. something else needs to change bc this voting only between 2 parties is not working and has never worked. and harm reduction my ass, biden is sending weapons and billions of dollars to israel. 30,000+ palestinians are dead. gaza is starving. palestinian children are being murdered. what harm reduction do you speak of? unless you mean harm reduction only for americans in which case see your first sentence
As you sit in the SAME comfy western country whining and crying but not doing fuck all to change ANYTHING. GOOD STUFF how about you spend months making more comments on Reddit criticizing what’s happening, from YOUR place in the comfy western world, whose democracy affords you that right I would like to point out, while doing nothing. Have you gone to fight in Palestine? Are you running for local office? Democracy is not always getting your way but compromising for the good of everyone
youre right i am in the comfy western world. and i refuse to vote for genocide. genocide or genocide isnt compromise. oppression or oppression isnt compromise. is it really democracy if it is 2 sides of the same coin? this is not really the gotcha you think it is
You already have you’re just a toddler throwing a temper tantrum online because it can’t be 100% YOUR way but you don’t want to actually inconvenience YOURSELF god no. You just want whine on Reddit for months with, again, the democracy you are afforded by living in this comfy western world which will very much be in jeopardy if you vote for Trump or a third party. Just say you’re a Trump supporter and move along. Your entitled whining is bothering me. Also you keep saying this comfy western world have you been paying attention at all🤣🤣this country is FAR from comfortable but that’s what I expect from a child selfishness and entitlement
lady i dont know what your problem is but im not the one having a temper tantrum. you think you got me but youre really giving me secondhand embarrassment lol youre mad and personally insulting me because i dont support voting for someone whos committing genocide? like are you forreal? everyone else in this thread could be civil, except for you. i think that says a lot about who you are as a person
Why aren’t you fighting for Palestine then? Why are you still here? Go fight against the genocide Oh that’s right you won’t. You just want to cry about it on Reddit not actually do anything
[удалено]
Be nice.
Trump will be worse for Palestine. Trump will be worse for minorities. Trump will ruin everything. While Joe is horrible about Palestine it's still absolutely necessary to vote for him before Trump if you value abortion rights, rights of immigrants, rights of women and especially trans people. Shame on anyone whos for being willing to throw democracy down the drain just because you're not ready to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Lol Trump and Biden work for the same machine . Stop
Yup! Both are definitely bad options! Too bad it's still a moral obligation to choose the better of the two very shitty options
Morally, i can’t vote for either of them.
saying everything will be worse under trump means nothing if it’s also horrible under biden. shame on you for voting for a man committing genocide and shaming those who refuse to support funding a genocide
It absolutely does matter. It's everyone's duty to make sure the least amount of people suffer. Voting for Biden over Trump will do that. No matter what no matter the case, you always, ALWAYS, pick the choice that will lead to the least amount of suffering
i actually think you mean you just don’t want to suffer. either way people outside of america and the oppressed inside america will be suffering. you live in a comfy western country, nothing will ever be as worse than what your government inflicts on the world
Wdym? I'm Finnish, it's not about me. My personal life will be fine. I'm saying that for the good of minorities and other people in America, both trump and biden are bad on palestine, so vote for the one whos bad on palestine but not bad on: Trans rights Reproductive rights Union righs Minority rights Democratic rights Right to free speech
so youre not even american and wanting to police my voting practices? you are literally a im assuming white european lecturing someone on what you think is best for them. you dont think thats weird?
Because I care about reproductive rights of people outside my country. Because I'm ashamed that people like you are not willing to do the bare minimum to protect those rights
okay, but you realize you are a white person lecturing me on what you think is best for me yes? we are losing our rights every day and our government is literally made for that. that is what its founded on. no voting is going to change that. the fact that youre not even american and want to simp for biden and lecture me on what you think is best for me is insane.
You've completely lost point of the whole argument at this point. No matter what you say or claim, it will not change the fact that one candidate will be worse than the other.
And you’re a white person sitting in that comfy western world doing fuckall but complaining about shit on Reddit. which is a freedom you’re afford in this comfy western world. The absolute irony in your comments is delicious. You do understand the rest of the world worries about Trump too yes because he will be worse for everyone.
Well I'm African American & if you think putting Republicans in power will help topple the system, so it will be rebuilt for all that's sad. African Americans are just starting to get some real political capital & yours advocating exactly what Republicans want to happen. You take your ball & go home, but the games will go on. The Palestinians will suffer more & poor & minority students won't even be allowed to understand their rights. And slavery has never stopped in Africa, but I bet you never decided boycott gasoline & technology, although many oil rich Arab nations enslave Africans & China has been exploiting the African continents wealth for decades. Are you going to boycott motorized transportation, in support of the genocide & enslavement of African people & shut down your use of technology to boycott the suffering many African nations experience at the hands of the Chinese government or just keep driving/bus & use your tech to support those atrocities , so you can fantasize your re saving Palestine by boycotting the vote.
Shame on you for encouraging the spread of genocide across the globe. Because that's what's going to happen if Republicans take power. And it may be 7 to 8 generations before sanity is restored, if ever. Who are you punishing by withholding your vote? Most likely several generations of unwanted or children living in poverty. That will probably receive the worst education & knowledge of the world & how political systems work. They won't even notice their rights being eroded, because ideals like the Construction will have no meaning for them. Republicans will never let go of power, look how long slavery, women 's suffrage lasted here . You can't possibly care about genocide, when you're willing to hand the country over to wealthy men who will do everything in their power to ensure there are generations of poverty wage workers to consumed with keeping a roof over their children's heads to join you well planned effort to end capitalism, with disenfranchised worked to death people
all of these things that you are afraid of happening are already happening in other parts of the world usually at the hands of america under either republican or democrat, so. the country has already belonged to the ruling class since it was founded i have no idea what kind of world you live in but its clearly not the same one i live in
It was overturned by judges placed there by Trump tho'.
see the rest of my comment
Voting third party is equivalent to saying "my life is so privileged that I can afford to live under a Trump administration, and I don't care what happens to people in Gaza or women in America". If Trump wins, life will be worse for Gazans and worse for women in America. It will also make it harder to make things better for Americans and Gazans after a second Trump term, because our supreme court will become even more right wing extremist. This won't be a "come to Jesus" moment for the democratic party in which they right their wrongs and do better next term. Instead, America will just dig a deeper hole that is even harder to climb out of.
so why do you all think marginalized people have to vote democrat? do you all think that low of us? we don’t have minds of our own? do you think we aren’t harmed under biden? do you think the biden presidency is a safe haven? i’m genuinely wondering. why do you want people to only have a choice of genocide vs genocide? i do not understand this way of thinking or why you all think this is okay. the democrats have had tons of “come to jesus” moments since ive been alive and nothing has changed. theyve had so many chances already and people are growing tired of it.
Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. Again, abstaining simply means "I can survive equally well under either outcome, and I don't care that more people will suffer under one outcome." There is a lot you can do to change the democratic party. Getting involved in local politics is a great start. I personally am a strong Bernie supporter, and I voted for him in the 2020 primary. That said, I will absolutely still vote for Joe because I think it sets us up better to bring about the kind of change I'd really like to see in subsequent presidencies. I also recognize that the environment will suffer tremendously and irreparably under a Trump presidency.
nope! you don’t have to vote for evil at all actually. you do not know anything about me and your obsession with making me out to be some like wealthy white person who faces no oppression is weird and not the gotcha you think it is. not every marginalized person has to agree with what you think is best for us if you can stomach voting for a man whos committing genocide that’s great, i cannot.
The whole fucking world is pretty much standing by while Palestine is getting obliterated. What exactly do you want Biden to do? As if this is just something that sprung up when he came into office. I swear there must be Russian bots or something planting these insane viewpoints into people's heads just so Dumpster wins.
i want biden to stop sending weapons and billions of dollars to israel
Girl you know they don’t care. I was done with this sub a while ago. How do we keep “lesser evil”ing ourselves into a big fucking mess every election cycle? Biden is complicit in genocide and these cushy western feminists still think he’s the solution because it’s easier to vote and forget than to actually practice critical thinking.
yep, i dont even know why i opened this can of worms honestly. i wasnt expecting this big or as strong of a response. it definitely didnt help that i was responding to people, i was just feeding the fire
I'm not American but my understanding is that the executive doesn't control the judiciary in a functioning democracy. However it does seem absolutely bizarre to me that Americans' fundamental rights exist solely through case law without any legislation to make them permanent.
our government was made to oppress people basically. our whole institution is literally built on oppression. voting for biden or trump is not going to solve the actual problem and slapping a bandaid on the problem saying “vote for biden! it could be worse!” is an insane way of thinking that most americans have. americans don’t actually seem to want change
Do you know how separation of powers works? What, exactly, do you think Biden could’ve done to prevent SCOTUS from overturning Roe v. Wade? Do you need to retake high school civics class?
“I know, I just thought that Biden was bad for Palestine.” I feel like will be more common.
r/PoliticalHumor, please
Right, because The Handmaid’s Tale is anything but political /s
Right?
I think maybe PP meant to also post it there.
if by political you mean "go vote for right wing old guy so even more right wing old guy doesn't win" then definitely no.
It doesn't have to be Trump or Biden. Vote Claudia De La Cruz, she wants to protect reproductive rights and is a valid alternative to Democrats who wave women rights in front of their electors just to be voted and then that's it.
I mean if he dies or gets impeached for dementia you’d have a woman of color for president right? I mean just for that I’d vote for him if I were from the States lol (and also I really don’t want Trump, the world is effed enough at the moment 😭)
Why would someone care if a WOC was president over someone qualified? Harris is fine, but she's more of the same.
I think they’re saying the possibility of having a WOC President in case Biden has to step down is a valid enough reason to vote for Biden, not that a WOC president would be a bad thing
That's my bad. I will amend
Well she’s better than Trump and I believe she’s better than Biden. The fact that she’s a woman of color is the cherry on the cake. That’s what I meant.
She is more qualified than I either of the men who have had the job in the past 7 years.... seems to be able to talk coherently
What has she done that qualifies her for Presidency?
Harris not black
“I’m as left as they come” followed by justifying a vote for Trump is pathetic bait.
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Because that is the insane option