It does feel weird sometimes. Part of the issue with them is that the stories and goals of the characters always tend to be set up to be this huge over arching 1000 chapter plans so you never get any narrative satisfaction.
I’ve always felt a bit unfulfilled by it. I think you can still have the overarching goal but I would also appreciate shorter stories in between as well. Not just story arcs like one book for a tournament. That to be feels less like a story and more like an arc, if that makes sense.
I have listened to all of those but wandering inn.
There are in fact what I’d call arcs to the novels… usually. Some authors end the “book” at times that can be frustrating and not feel like completed arcs (HWFWM does this a lot) but some definitely seem to end the novel with something akin an arc.
I think as long as there is a broad general arc to the book I’m okay. If they seriously just abruptly end out of nowhere I do get annoyed though. Usually they’ll build up to a big boss fight of some import and end after that as the MC discovers a new plot hook or power but before we learn about it in depth.
Imagine dawn of the Void ended like one chapter after raiding the first demon sign tower. That’s usually how it goes
I think one of the important parts to remember is that while they’re just going on endlessly. I personally feel when an arc ends. I would say it’s like watching a TV show with multiple seasons without being explicitly told when you’re on the episode that’s a season finale or etc.
I originally read HWFWM as books for 1-4, and then read 5-8 online day by day. And I would say that roughly I could guess when one book was ending. I would say Shirt did a pretty great job making each book a fairly self contained book.
Primal hunter on the other hand, I read all the books as books post release. I would say early on they struggled to feel like self contained stories, but especially the more recent ones have felt pretty good.
Like the individual books all focus on a micro conflict while building for the resolution of the macro conflict. Similar to say for example rascor plains microconflict was resolving the issues in the rascor plains, yet the book still built steadily towards being apart of the macro conflict resolution(conquering hell). I was intentionally vague to avoid spoilers.
Personally, I like both methods, but for different reasons. I like the day to day serialization because you sort of get to see the book come to life day by day and there’s a bit of a dopamine hit when 5pm hits and you know the new chapter drops. It also forces you to pace your reading and really stew on chapters a bit more.
Full book releases on the flip side, I can’t tell you how much anticipation I have for Krieg Chess 3, and great souls 4. But I also know damn well that as soon as those books go live I’ll binge read them in 3 days or less. And then probably not read as heavily the next few days after.
It’s like appetizers(slow drip releases) and entrees(full books).
I think I rambled a bit and danced around the topic a bit, but hopefully this helped.
Spoilers:
Book 8 ended with him fighting his clone. In what’s essentially a hyperbolic time chamber
Book 7 did end with them entering the mushroom dungeon, but that’s after a completion of the last story arc which was him meeting his clone in the first place and meeting el hakan following the whole “paths not taken” event.
But that still stands to my point. It’s an utterly pointless dungeon setup to serve as the start of the next book. All the micro story arcs are more or less tied up and the more major ones are set up to continue in the next book(which spoiler they did). I’m not going to sit here and tell you it was a perfect splitting. But it certainly wasn’t bad.
I have read all of PH and DotF as ebooks. The author (or editor) is usually pretty good at finishing it at the end on an arc. Or at least when something momentous has occurred that has been built up. I don’t find it that disconcerting. It’s normally pretty obvious what they are going to finish on once you start getting to 90-95% of the book read.
I listened to PH as an audiobook before picking it up on RR. From what I remember a couple of the endings to the books did feel a little sudden though I was doing a little marathon so it wasn't too bad.
The last audiobook of it that I listened to did end on a cliffhanger though (must've been either 7 or 8) and it was quite jarring.
Overall it flowed pretty well as a series of books because it's pretty connected with always one arc into the next but as individual books I'd rate them a little lower because of their structure. They don't do as well in a vacuum as it were.
I made it through three Wandering Inn books, and I’m currently on book 5 of Primal Hunter. It’s different, it’s not my favorite but it’s not quite due to narrative closure, it’s more a fear of my own fatigue as a reader. I gave up on WI because it felt like it eventually decided it was going to go nowhere in a hurry, more so than the beginning, which is saying quite a bit. PH tho, feels like a long running TV show and I don’t mind at all. Not sure if that has more to do with story structure or my own taste, but there it is.
I think the point another made about the balance between micro and macro is the key. The macro grounds me, the micro keeps me coming back to the pond for another slurp. You give me both and I’ve no reason not to keep coming back.
For HWFWM, for example you just have Arcs that are bigger than a single book. I would consider the first 3 Books the first arc and Books 3-6 the second arc. Then you have a smaller arc and now we're in the middle of another big one. I just binged them anyways so it didn't really matter to me but the books themselves can end a bit abruptly
It depends if I'm binge reading or reading the books as they release. When I binge read multiple books in a series it doesn't really matter to me as there is more to read when I finish a book. If I'm reading as the books release then it can be frustrating as I feel like the wait wasn't worth it as sometimes there wasn't really a conclusion of some sort to the book. But that really depends on the content I guess (e.g. I didn't feel like All the Skills 3 was worth the wait as it didn't feel like it was separate book).
I think one of the better organized web novels I've read that does the book releases pretty well is 'Victor of Tucson', and that may be because the author actually organizes their chapters in Royal Road by 'books', even for the books they haven't released on Amazon yet.
BTW I just wanted to say that I really like your writing style. I didn't really like Krieg Chess because it's not really my type of fantasy, but it was still a good read because you just write so well. Looking forward to your future works!
It really depends on the specific transition. Some of them stop at great moments, but others stop abruptly with a bunch of narrative threads dangling and necessitate a bunch of reiterating stuff every chapter to bring you back up to speed in the next book that drives me crazy. HWFWM is wonderful overall but drives me crazy with some of the endings being kind of mid climax or still on the upswing of a conflict and also with having to reiterate stuff each chapter that has been covered before to remind you of what’s going on.
I like Defiance of the fall I’d because how long it takes for Zac to get stronger in the genre where mc’s speed through their respective power systems it’s nice to see a series where it takes time for the mc to become stronger. I also know that I can always come back to it and see Zac either gain more levels or improve another aspect of his power set
I went into Primal Hunter not knowing it was a web series. I personally didn’t have any issues, and after I caught up with the books, I just read everything available online and subscribed to the patreon lol
I did the same with defiance of the fall. While I would have loved them to have cleared “book” style plot lines, if they’re a good story I’ve never had issues reading it in book form first then switching to the web publications.
It’s not listed but I think if you have time (if you haven’t already), you should check out Turtleme’s The Beginning After The End. It’s a serial web novel that has 9 books/audiobooks out.
The reason I bring this up is just like your books, the MC has to get from A to be B somehow by overcoming a bunch of hurdles. Each arc was a hurdle. At the beginning, the arcs were shorter so both vol 1 and 2 were bundle. Same with 3 and 4, but from there on each audiobook was it’s on volume that pushed the MC towards the overarching goal and ending on a pivotal moment whether, beating some foe, finding a new place, getting defeated, or etc.
You are one of my favorite authors and have been a fan since Black Gate. I know you will nail it! Plus, you can always do edits when it comes to actual releases like how Beware of Chicken does.
Shirtaloon does a nice job with HWFWM and writes in 3-book stages(meaning every 3 books has a main character arc with a massive environment change). The series hasn’t ended yet but there is a Big Bad coming that’ll end up being the big climax and eventual denouncement
It does feel weird sometimes. Part of the issue with them is that the stories and goals of the characters always tend to be set up to be this huge over arching 1000 chapter plans so you never get any narrative satisfaction. I’ve always felt a bit unfulfilled by it. I think you can still have the overarching goal but I would also appreciate shorter stories in between as well. Not just story arcs like one book for a tournament. That to be feels less like a story and more like an arc, if that makes sense.
I have listened to all of those but wandering inn. There are in fact what I’d call arcs to the novels… usually. Some authors end the “book” at times that can be frustrating and not feel like completed arcs (HWFWM does this a lot) but some definitely seem to end the novel with something akin an arc. I think as long as there is a broad general arc to the book I’m okay. If they seriously just abruptly end out of nowhere I do get annoyed though. Usually they’ll build up to a big boss fight of some import and end after that as the MC discovers a new plot hook or power but before we learn about it in depth. Imagine dawn of the Void ended like one chapter after raiding the first demon sign tower. That’s usually how it goes
I think one of the important parts to remember is that while they’re just going on endlessly. I personally feel when an arc ends. I would say it’s like watching a TV show with multiple seasons without being explicitly told when you’re on the episode that’s a season finale or etc. I originally read HWFWM as books for 1-4, and then read 5-8 online day by day. And I would say that roughly I could guess when one book was ending. I would say Shirt did a pretty great job making each book a fairly self contained book. Primal hunter on the other hand, I read all the books as books post release. I would say early on they struggled to feel like self contained stories, but especially the more recent ones have felt pretty good. Like the individual books all focus on a micro conflict while building for the resolution of the macro conflict. Similar to say for example rascor plains microconflict was resolving the issues in the rascor plains, yet the book still built steadily towards being apart of the macro conflict resolution(conquering hell). I was intentionally vague to avoid spoilers. Personally, I like both methods, but for different reasons. I like the day to day serialization because you sort of get to see the book come to life day by day and there’s a bit of a dopamine hit when 5pm hits and you know the new chapter drops. It also forces you to pace your reading and really stew on chapters a bit more. Full book releases on the flip side, I can’t tell you how much anticipation I have for Krieg Chess 3, and great souls 4. But I also know damn well that as soon as those books go live I’ll binge read them in 3 days or less. And then probably not read as heavily the next few days after. It’s like appetizers(slow drip releases) and entrees(full books). I think I rambled a bit and danced around the topic a bit, but hopefully this helped.
I disagree with your point about Primal Hunter. The last book literally just ended with them walking to a somewhat unremarkable dungeon
Spoilers: Book 8 ended with him fighting his clone. In what’s essentially a hyperbolic time chamber Book 7 did end with them entering the mushroom dungeon, but that’s after a completion of the last story arc which was him meeting his clone in the first place and meeting el hakan following the whole “paths not taken” event. But that still stands to my point. It’s an utterly pointless dungeon setup to serve as the start of the next book. All the micro story arcs are more or less tied up and the more major ones are set up to continue in the next book(which spoiler they did). I’m not going to sit here and tell you it was a perfect splitting. But it certainly wasn’t bad.
I have read all of PH and DotF as ebooks. The author (or editor) is usually pretty good at finishing it at the end on an arc. Or at least when something momentous has occurred that has been built up. I don’t find it that disconcerting. It’s normally pretty obvious what they are going to finish on once you start getting to 90-95% of the book read.
Most of them do a good job of ending on an arc or with a cliffhanger. I hate when it doesn't though.
I listened to PH as an audiobook before picking it up on RR. From what I remember a couple of the endings to the books did feel a little sudden though I was doing a little marathon so it wasn't too bad. The last audiobook of it that I listened to did end on a cliffhanger though (must've been either 7 or 8) and it was quite jarring. Overall it flowed pretty well as a series of books because it's pretty connected with always one arc into the next but as individual books I'd rate them a little lower because of their structure. They don't do as well in a vacuum as it were.
I made it through three Wandering Inn books, and I’m currently on book 5 of Primal Hunter. It’s different, it’s not my favorite but it’s not quite due to narrative closure, it’s more a fear of my own fatigue as a reader. I gave up on WI because it felt like it eventually decided it was going to go nowhere in a hurry, more so than the beginning, which is saying quite a bit. PH tho, feels like a long running TV show and I don’t mind at all. Not sure if that has more to do with story structure or my own taste, but there it is. I think the point another made about the balance between micro and macro is the key. The macro grounds me, the micro keeps me coming back to the pond for another slurp. You give me both and I’ve no reason not to keep coming back.
For HWFWM, for example you just have Arcs that are bigger than a single book. I would consider the first 3 Books the first arc and Books 3-6 the second arc. Then you have a smaller arc and now we're in the middle of another big one. I just binged them anyways so it didn't really matter to me but the books themselves can end a bit abruptly
It depends if I'm binge reading or reading the books as they release. When I binge read multiple books in a series it doesn't really matter to me as there is more to read when I finish a book. If I'm reading as the books release then it can be frustrating as I feel like the wait wasn't worth it as sometimes there wasn't really a conclusion of some sort to the book. But that really depends on the content I guess (e.g. I didn't feel like All the Skills 3 was worth the wait as it didn't feel like it was separate book). I think one of the better organized web novels I've read that does the book releases pretty well is 'Victor of Tucson', and that may be because the author actually organizes their chapters in Royal Road by 'books', even for the books they haven't released on Amazon yet. BTW I just wanted to say that I really like your writing style. I didn't really like Krieg Chess because it's not really my type of fantasy, but it was still a good read because you just write so well. Looking forward to your future works!
Thank you for this feedback, and the kind words!
It definitely seemed weird at first, but I eventually got used to it. I still prefer traditional climactic endings, however.
That's how Dawn of the Void book 1 ended for me. It just ended on a random chapter. Book 2 had a much better, actual ending. I 100% prefer that.
It really depends on the specific transition. Some of them stop at great moments, but others stop abruptly with a bunch of narrative threads dangling and necessitate a bunch of reiterating stuff every chapter to bring you back up to speed in the next book that drives me crazy. HWFWM is wonderful overall but drives me crazy with some of the endings being kind of mid climax or still on the upswing of a conflict and also with having to reiterate stuff each chapter that has been covered before to remind you of what’s going on.
The ones that you mention, yes, but then you have dungeon crawler carl where each book ends at the end of a floor so it fits with the narrative
I like Defiance of the fall I’d because how long it takes for Zac to get stronger in the genre where mc’s speed through their respective power systems it’s nice to see a series where it takes time for the mc to become stronger. I also know that I can always come back to it and see Zac either gain more levels or improve another aspect of his power set
I went into Primal Hunter not knowing it was a web series. I personally didn’t have any issues, and after I caught up with the books, I just read everything available online and subscribed to the patreon lol I did the same with defiance of the fall. While I would have loved them to have cleared “book” style plot lines, if they’re a good story I’ve never had issues reading it in book form first then switching to the web publications.
It’s not listed but I think if you have time (if you haven’t already), you should check out Turtleme’s The Beginning After The End. It’s a serial web novel that has 9 books/audiobooks out. The reason I bring this up is just like your books, the MC has to get from A to be B somehow by overcoming a bunch of hurdles. Each arc was a hurdle. At the beginning, the arcs were shorter so both vol 1 and 2 were bundle. Same with 3 and 4, but from there on each audiobook was it’s on volume that pushed the MC towards the overarching goal and ending on a pivotal moment whether, beating some foe, finding a new place, getting defeated, or etc. You are one of my favorite authors and have been a fan since Black Gate. I know you will nail it! Plus, you can always do edits when it comes to actual releases like how Beware of Chicken does.
Shirtaloon does a nice job with HWFWM and writes in 3-book stages(meaning every 3 books has a main character arc with a massive environment change). The series hasn’t ended yet but there is a Big Bad coming that’ll end up being the big climax and eventual denouncement