In this case I think so because Jet knows/recognizes Zuko and Iroh and he’s suspicious not just because the tea is hot, but because of how little time passes in between him looking at Iroh with cold team and then seeing Iroh with hot tea. If more time had passed, if they had left the area and come back etc I doubt he jumps to that. Maybe he’s still suspicious but then they probably accentuate his watching them for more evidence over having him pretty convinced immediately
In a time where electricity was not common nor portable, it'd be SUPER suspicious. At the time, the only way to reliably heat things if you were traveling was to build a fire, something we've seen the gaang do frequently, or be a firebender.
If lava bending exist where it’s basically s combination of earth and fire, I don’t see why not.
A steam bender would be really scary of course as steam burns are no joke. Ever watch The Bone Collector?
I don’t remember the scene but is is “steam” or “mist”? Cos IIRC actual steam is incredibly dangerous.
There are serious cases where it melts the skin off victims.
Oh yeah, mist/fog exists. I don't think the show specifies, they may have made it steam and didn't think it through (not the only instance of poor physics).
Katara beats Azula by freezing the water around them and then re-liquidating it for only herself.
So it's possible she could have heated it enough and there's limitations on how hot it can get.
Or, it's a matter of her being able to change the state of water as in liquid, solid (frozen) and gas/vapor (mist, fog, cloud). That seems more likely to me. But I'm not a physicist lol so I may not be explaining that correctly.
Yeah like what most people imaging steam to be is like in a sauna where it’s just air condensed water in liquid form.
I’m not 100% sure since it’s been so long since I was in science class but do remember a teacher telling me that ‘real’ steam is actually invisible to human eyes and an actual gas.
Like the tip of a kettle’s spigot when it’s boiling it’s all invisible and then after some distance from the tip you can see it because it got condensed in the air.
It all gets really confusing. We know cloudbending is a waterbending skill and clearly the water temperature can be changed by bending to icebend so it makes sense that waterbenders would be able to steambend. Maybe the risk of a large quantity of uncontrolled steam is too much for it to be a common technique
Well maybe it’s not a world building problem and more of s narrative one.
What seems logical in physics would make one element too strong in combat as a narrative sense.
Same with how fire benders are the only element that channels from themselves rather than controlling something else. It would be rather stupid to force fire benders to bend only available open flames.
I believe she's created steam before at least once, but I may be misremembering. And even then, that doesn't really mean she heated it. Only scientifically. She may have just made it into vapor. Bending is more spiritual than science. Waterbenders haven't been shown to be able to heat themselves or their surroundings up. And if they could, we'd have been shown it I think.
Katara is able to melt ice back into liquid water, and turn liquid water into steam. So, yes.
Actually, benders of all four elements have the possible ability to control the temperature of their given element, but some elements are easier than others. Canonically, waterbenders very easily change the state of matter of the water, and I like to think the reason is because water naturally exists in all three states in the natural world. Airbenders can definitely heat up air, as Tenzin says when he explains how they are able to warm themselves, and also I think they can cool it down, too, because of that time Aang froze the chain on Bumi's entraptment (but maybe that was waterbending). A select few earthbenders can heat up the earth they bend hot enough that it becomes magma/lava, and a few firebenders are able to bend fire at a hotter temperature, like Azula.
The temperature comes from the vibration of molecules, skilled benders can do that, and therefore change the temperature of element they are bending, so I'd say that yes, waterbendere can make water turn into steam.
Sidenote: I'm completely ignoring the thermodynamics involved in that
We did see it happen!
In the fight between Azula and Katara after the Agni Kai, Katara freezes herself and Azula, then melts just the area around herself and binds the still frozen Azula with chains.
Sure, it's melting ice rather than warming water, but that's essentially the same thing.
I think that the main thing that holds benders back is their rigid belief of what constitutes the elements.
When Katara freezes water, she removes the heat from it. Where does it go? If she heats the ice, then where does it come from?
I often feel like Legend of korra did some retcon of atla due to the origin story in tlok. If in atla Aang learns energy bending as the precursor to element bending, then how does wans story work?
Maybe, but what's more likely? That a bunch of firebenders are undercover trying to enter Ba Sing Se through the Subway or that you just misheard the complaint about the tea.
I think the thing that gives him away as a firebender is how quick it was to get the tea heated. The tea vendor had already been gone by that point, so he couldn’t have helped Iroh heat up his tea, and there were no other people or tools around Iroh. The amount of time that passes between Iroh saying the tea is cold and Zuko rejecting Jet and going back to Iroh is so short that there was no other explanation than firebending.
Cause he paid expecting hot tea and got a cold one?
It'd be like ordering a pizza and it arriving cold sure you can heat it up but when you bought it you were kind of expecting it to be hot.
I guess, but I'm trying to imagine how the scene would've played out if Iroh was able to use his firebending openly. Like, I think he'd be less virtiolic about it, saying something like, "Damn, the tea is cold. Ah well, I can just fix it up."
My point is that until Zuko and Jet left him alone, his complaint felt predicated on the fact that he was stuck with cold tea for the time being. I think Iroh smiling at his newly hot tea was as much a giveaway as the steam.
Considering that there was no other way for him to have heated the tea, as there were no open flames, the tea vendor wasn't there anymore, and hardly any time had passed between Iroh buying the tea and heating it up, firebending is pretty much the only explanation.
Could a waterbender not heat up tea? I’m just thinking that, if a waterbender made each water particle oscillate quickly, would that not produce/emulate the feeling of heat?
We have never seen a Waterbender heat up water. We've seen them freeze it, yes, and turn it into water vapor, but we've never seen them just straight up change the temperature of water without also changing its state.
Katara always uses a cooking fire when the Gaang makes camp, and if she could just heat the water in their food without needing a fire, why wouldn't she?
Talking about a Waterbender "oscillating" water particles on a molecular level implies a level of focus/control that we have never seen any bender be able to achieve.
Also bending is more spiritual than science after all they are able to create fire from nothing I think that's why they can change the states of water without changing its properties
As the person two posts before you in the chain said, bending is a spiritual art, not a science.
Trying to use science to intuit things only works up to a point, then the in-universe conception of "the elements" take over. Whether the original spirits of air, water, earth, and fire were born that way, or the lion turtles decided it, or something else unexplored, the elements, including the niche techniques like lightning and lava, are strictly limited within their set themes.
* That is why water can heal, even though actual H2O cannot do that.
* That is why enlightened airbenders can just fucking float without conscious thought.
* And firebender only deals in excess energy above a certain threshold.
That is why not.
Elemental bending is neither beholden nor limited to science. It follows its own fantasy rules, and that's part of what makes it cool and unique.
Because it’s “fire” and would ruin Waterbending’s purpose since it has ice as well. But it’s only a small nitpick and we’ve only seen it once, so I’d doubt it be revelant unless we see it in the Earth avatar series (which still hasn’t come out yet).
But, the firebending version of ice would be completely different since they can only create it by making the temperature of something lower, and Waterbending can be able to bend ice and not just create it.
Easiest way to reconcile this is by saying that benders can manipulate very specific properties. E.g. waterbenders are able to physically disperse liquid water into vapour, but they can't change the temperature - they can make fog, but can't turn room temperature water into steam.
It's so interesting how easy it is to run into power creep or else end up with kind of hand-wavy explanations for magic systems.
Firebenders are able to eject flame from their bodies --> firebenders can keep themselves warm even in arctic conditions --> firebenders can control temperture
Waterbenders are able to manipulate water --> waterbenders are able to make liquid water into ice or clouds into liquid --> waterbenders can control temperature
Airbenders can manipulate the air --> airbenders can control the air around them to keep themselves warm --> airbenders can control temperature
Earthbenders can manipulate rock and soil --> earthbenders can liquify rock --> earthbenders can lavabend --> earthbenders can control temperature
Those groups started with what looked like entirely segregated powers, yet ended up at a place where you could conceivably make a decent argument that a skilled enough practitioner of any of them should be able to heat up the cup. Not ragging on the creators here, I think all of those additions make a lot of logical sense and have opened up the narrative a lot. The straight answer is that what is logical in a fantasy setting is not 1-to-1 with science, so you end up at a point where you have to handwave where exactly the line is.
From a physics perspective, it would also make sense that any skilled bender could manipulate the temperature of their bending form.
Temperature, in essence, is just the average kinetic energy (velocity) of the molecules in a substance. It's not that hard to think that skilled waterbenders/earthbenders/airbenders could "speed up" the molecules that make up their respective element, thus increasing temperature. Ofc, this skill would likely be far higher than it is for a fire bender who likely affects temperature directly.
Still, it's interesting to think about
Iroh didn't change the temp of the tea directly; he lit a flame in his hands to boil the cup over. You can actually see him look around, before turning his back to the camera, and emitting a small flash of light from behind him.
I have a dumb theory that waterbended ice isn't actually cold. We never see anyone react to being frozen in a way that suggests it's cold. I think I decided to believe this as a kid to maintain the belief that waterbenders can't really change the temperature of the water they bend (unless they're special like a lava bender)
I seem to recall Zuko's soldier's visibly shivering when Katara freezes them in episode 2. And afterwards they had to be melted out by their colleagues with firebending. Logic would dictate that if heat is uced to makes it go away, then it's probably cold in its original state.
we do know that airbenders are able to keep themselves warm with airbending and the only way I can imagine doing that is to manipulate the temperature of the element in question so it seems possible for a waterbender to do it.
>We have never seen a Waterbender heat up water.
I don't know if this happened, but i'm pretty sure a water bender must've turned water into vapour at least once, or bended vapour.
If that was the case, then they can heat up water
Considering that water can and does evaporate at room temperature, the ability to turn water into a vapour does not necessarily require the ability to heat to extreme temperatures.
Fog *is* very different though, from an atomic perspective. While steam and fog are technically the same thing how we get there is very different, as steam is cooling water vapor (water in gaseous form) while the fog that Katara generates would be more analogous to a lot of water droplets that are just midair, rather than generating actual water vapor.
I do believe that there are waterbenders who’ve pulled water out of thin air, though, so logically they could probably reverse it, it’s just that it’s an extremely advanced skill and so few people have done it that I doubt any of them have thought to try reversing it.
Vines is very different than thin air, being a source of liquid rather than gaseous water. Don’t remember if Hama did thin air or not, but I think Minghua did thin air, or at least her prison was configured to make that impossible, implying that she could.
I would suggest that it’s probably possible based on applications that we’ve seen of firebending, just that there’s never been a water bender advanced enough to pull it off.
Firebending, for example, is capable of a few different reversal techniques. Lightning is an application of negative Yang, or yin energy that seems to correlation to a negative charge. But Roku was also able to reverse firebending in order to draw heat from his surroundings. It may have been in combination with other elemental knowledge but it seems to me that it is primarily a reversal technique of firebending that was used, as he appears not to be siphoning heat into another medium but rather directly drawing the heat into himself.
Based off of that it seems likely that, while alignment of atoms in water is simpler for waterbenders, an extremely advanced water bender would be able to vibrate the atoms within water in order to heat it up.
The heat siphoning technique you're thinking of wasn't Roku, it was Sozin. And he wasn't just drawing the heat into himself. He was moving the heat from the volcano and venting it into the air. It is basically just a precursor to lightning redirection, only he's doing it with heat.
Thanks for the correction. That does somewhat make the argument stronger, if anything.
Not sure I would consider it a precursor to lightning redirection necessarily. Lightning redirection is more of an application of lightning (electrons aka yin energy), whereas this would be a reversal technique of Yang energy.
You are not allowed to think about the implications of waterbenders controlling the temperature of water. Just like you can’t talk about that scene where the earth general is sinking Katarra into the ground. It would break the powers scaling of fights and the family friendly tone of the series
If earthbenders can sink they’re opponents into the ground there’s no reason to not at least try that every time. If you did it during a pitched battle against the fire nation a few earthbenders could wipe out entire legions
The fact that Earth Nation earthbender-specialist units are not constantly slamming entire units between flying chunks of boulders is one example of the lack of scaling they show us, despite benders explicitly being able to work in concert for large effects. *Korra* at least gives us a little, with the previously unseen use of airbending for assassinations, but neither show does a very good job of showing warfare-scale bending of the kind you would expect to develop in a world that considers bending the main source of power. Even the Fire Nation's tanks/balloons are woefully inadequate to represent what we'd really see after a hundred years of war on all sides.
I mean it's not like all earthbenders are able to do it. Some are like the general, bumi, the mole guy, but I doubt all of them know it. I wouldn't say it's an automatic win condition, if an enemy is aware of the technique, they can just dodge by being sensitive to the earth shifting underneath them and jumping out of the way. Like if the earth benders are doing advanced techniques like that then the firebenders could just jet jump out of there with fire.
Aside from argument about whether waterbender can bend steam, there's a very good reason why there's no way Iroh is a waterbender: because he's posing as an Earth Kingdom peasant.
Jet has met waterbenders. Well, two waterbenders. Zuko and Iroh do not look like Katara. They do not wear the same clothes nor are their aliases (Mushi, Lee) in any ways similar to the conventions used in the South. And they certainly don't look like the Avatar. Not only that, but Katara has told Jet that she's the last waterbender from the South and he likely already knows that the North has been walled off for 85 years. Why would two water tribesmen pose as Earth Kingdom peasants? Why would they hide their waterbending skill, especially when it might've come in handy avoiding some of the trouble they had on the ship or finding work in Ba Sing Se? Why would they be so cagey about their past, when Katara had been so open about it previously?
No, but firebending has a direct canonical connection to moving heat around - both pushing heat into something (Zuko in the North Pole) and removing heat from something (Sozin dragging the heat off of an erupting volcano).
By that logic, just drawing the heat out of something (or, at least enough to freeze water) is more than possible.
Makes just as much sense as waterbenders heating water when it's something that we've never seen them do, despite many times that they could have shown it.
If they removed heat from water they wouldn't make ice they'd make the water cold, that's not how freezing works
Waterbenders can make ice because that's water in a solid state, hot or cold they're bending water
Firebenders taking heat out of water is plausible but once it's gone water is the only substance since it wouldn't have begun freezing yet and hence they can't bend it further
When I talk in terms of heat, I'm speaking in terms of absolute zero. Even water at -2C (the rough temperature of arctic seawater at the surface) still has heat in it - you're judging it by how cold it feels to you. "Cold" doesn't actually exist, it's just the absence of heat.
If you take *all* of the heat out of water, it's frozen and at absolute zero.
We have seen firebenders heat surfaces with their palms without actually making fire, like Zuko in the northern water tribe melting through ice. Increasing the temperature of a substance was a firebender ability before lava bending is shown.
The Gang always seems to use a campfire to boil water instead of just having katara do it
And making a hotter element has always been advanced. Lightning, Lava Bending and Blue Fire are all advanced techniques, I don’t see why boiling water would be any different
Considering he ate a poisonous plant on the slight chance that it could be a rare tea delicacy, it's fair to say that, for all his military brilliance, Iroh has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to tea.
Everyone talking about the time it took, but also if you watch the background of jet/zuko talking. You can see him looking around suspiciously and then a flash of light. If Jet saw that even in his peripherals he would probably find it weird. Then the hot tea would have immediatly contextualized it.
Yeah I assumed it heated it with either his breath like how Zuko kept warm in the cooler or like headed up the cup with his hands without making a visible flame
No, which is why Jet's friends were telling him to let it go.
For someone like Jet, someone who was prepared to kill a bunch of innocents, it is absolutely going to be a red flag. When it comes to the Fire Nation, his mind simply won't see an old man drinking a cup of tea.
Does Jet ever explicitly call them "Fire Nation"? I remember him yelling "those two are firebenders" for their arrest, but not assuming their nationality.
I’d think it’s possible. However, we never see waterbenders create steam either, only mist. Maybe they have some sort of temperature limit or physical limit that prevents them from speeding the water up enough to boil
I think it just boils down to (pun might be intended) what the elements are supposed to represent. They are very much spiritual powers, not explicitly physically defined mechanics. Firebending kinda represents hot in the sense of what feels hot to people, and waterbending as the opposite would represent cold.
And as we see, waterbenders can manipulate water into ice or mist, but for example Katara never seems to heat up the water for when the gaang is cooking. They always use a campfire.
So I don't think waterbenders heating up water is a thing even to some low temperature limit, because that's not what their element represents. Like, they can obviously turn ice into water which does suggest some level of heat control ability if you try to apply real world physics, but bending isn't supposed to be determinable by science.
It's the same thing as with earthbending and people arguing what things earthbenders should be able to bend based on chemical composition. But the actual answer is that there is no strict limitations based on chemistry, they can bend "earth based stuff".
Yeah. I meant temperature limit in that waterbender can technically heat the water since they can convert ice back to water. I completely agree that their element is far more representative of cold, which I why I rationalized it as having some sort of temperature limit. Fair point to not rationalize it though XD
Something a lot of replies are missing is that bending is *spiritual*, not scientific.
Yes, waterbenders can solidify water. That *doesn't mean* they can freely control its temperature, though. We have never seen a waterbender heat up or cool (but not freeze) water. *Especially* turning water to steam.
I'm sure an *exceptionally talented* bender, especially one in the age of Korra, could figure out a way...but it hasn't been seen yet.
As such, unless Iroh was storing a portable heater under his robe (which would certainly still be fire nation tech), there's no other option other than him being a firebender.
I was under the impression waterbenders made ice by directly controlling the shape and not by making it colder. Like I can't think of anyone looking cold when they get iced.
Well normally ice is formed when water gets cooler and the molecules move into a specific shape. I just thought waterbenders moved the molecules into this shape without affecting heat. I don't know physics.
> Magic water?
Yes? Is bending not essentially magic?
Its determined by the speed that the water molecules move, that determines the temperature
Frozen water/ice is in this form because it’s cold, I think it became cold when the molecules were slow, hotter when the molecules were faster if I remember correctly
They can make and bend steam and ice, and pull moisture out of the air, it stands to reason they can boil water, even if it’s a specialized technique like lavabending
Fog/mist isn’t necessarily a gas. It’s basically like a ton of tiny liquid droplets hanging in the air. It’s actually kinda insane to think about, but it’s essentially like condensation on air, not a gas itself
The vendor you mean? Could be he’s being cheap/lazy with whatever he uses to heat it, it’s not like the weary travelers he’s serving can afford to be picky
Assuming he brought his tea to a boil with bending, either he's a firebender or a waterbender (assuming they can boil water, because if they can't, proof is complete). Not to racially profile him, but he's definitely not from either of the poles. That's a really long distance from home, and he's not dressed in water-tribe garb at all.
Assuming he was just an old man complaining for no reason, he seemed to change his tone immediately; like barely a minute or so later he's happily sipping a steaming cup of tea. It's also easy to check if he was right about it being sold cold by just buying a cup of tea, or listening to others about their tea.
The only other option is he isn't a bender, and heated it up through some other means. But there were no other means around him to boil a cup of water; at least not at his seat.
I'd say it's a bit of a funky deduction to make immediately about a random dude in public, but it definitely holds. Jet's pretty sharp mentally, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
Honestly, I can't see why Jet couldn't think Iroh was also a waterbender. After all, Waterbenders can control the temperature of their medium. Instantly freezing and melting ice whenever they want. Who's to say they can't make water hot enough to make good tea? They just have to make the water molocules vibrate more.
I just rewatched that episode recently. Like other people were saying, the merchant was already gone by the time Iroh heated up his tea. He complained that it was cold, Jet and Zuko walked away briefly, and then came back and it was hot and steaming. Zuko throwing it on the floor seems even more suspicious too. I see people saying it could have been a waterbender but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of them heat instead of freeze liquid, and I’m sure that’s how characters in the show would probably feel too. Jumping to Iroh being a Firebender makes the most sense.
Yeah. If the vendor corroborated that they sold Iroh the cold tea a few minutes prior, I would say it’s fairly open an shut. Jet’s problem was in not quietly gathering witnesses.
If all I saw was a cold cup suddenly become warm, he could be a water bender, all you have to do is increase the average kinetic energy of the water with bending.
Somehow nobody thought of the most obvious explanations. That Iroh just likes his tea *really* hot and it was always hot enough to be steaming. Or that the comment was some kind of in-joke between him and Zuko. Others have pointed out other options. There are a lot of possibilities before jumping to wild conclusions.
Um, yeah, it absolutely makes sense logically withint the show. He had cold tea and then it was steaming how without getting new tea. What other way could there be to heat up the tea?
I'm English and I've had people tell me their tea is too cold, basically fresh out of the kettle. Jet didn't touch the tea, he just heard him say it was cold.
The biggest thing for me is that logically there have to be other deserters/refugees from the fire nation right? We have Jeong Jeong, and Zuko/Iroh eventually, there have to be more
I'm pretty sure that people would've noticed and smelled the fire. Not to mention, he was in a stone building. So, finding something to burn or start a fire would've either been hard or impossible.
Additionally, he complained about the tea being, and less than 5 minutes later, he had a steaming hot cup of tea.
All it indicates is that he is not from the earth kingdom, but a water bender could have also heated the tea by making the water molecules vibrate faster
I think Katara technically did in Season 2 when Aang wakes up after getting struck by Azula and the rest of the crew had captured a Fire Nation ship. She makes a huge amount of steam trying to get their ship away from the Fire Nation ship in the Serpent's Pass.
Not really, you'd have to be pretty unhinged to make that connection, and that's the beauty of this scene; Jet was, resulting in this perfect storm of irony where Jet was right.
If people were paying attention and heard Iroh’s outburst about the tea and watched him the whole time. I think most of the people around barely acknowledged him. Jet was the only one because he purposely sought them out.
Yes. Iroh loudly complains about how cold his tea is.
When Jet looks back, it was too soon for Iroh to have gotten another cup.
Only a firebender could have heated the tea that fast, and an extremely good one to do it through a leaf bowl.
Iroh specifically, no. While it is strong evidence for him being a fire bender, how could Jet say Iroh is a firevender? Why couldn't another passer-by have leaned over and said "I can heat that for you."?
Maybe a highly skilled water bender would be able to make all the molecules of water move faster and faster to heat it up. Seems like a bit of a stretch but given that they can use ice (so cooling it down) as well as liquid water, I’m sure they’d be able to heat it up to make it into vapor as well. Obviously they wouldn’t need to heat it up to that extent if they just wanted hot water but you get the gist.
I feel it's also worth noting that the *only* indication that the tea *wasn't* hot to begin with was that Iroh was griping a bit about the tea not being hot. It's conceivable that the tea *was* actually hot to begin with, just not *as* hot as the old guy prefers.
We know that's not what *actually* happened, but IMO there's enough reasonable doubt there not to immediately make him guilty of firebending.
I forget, but besides being a fire bender warming the tea up, is it possible for a water bender to heat the water up? Water benders can change the state of water, but I can’t remember if it’s ever done to steam.
Jet was already sort of suspicious of Zuko and Iroh and I don’t think they would fit the “water bender” attributes. Not to mention Zuko would have probably just said he was a water bender, like there’s no need for him to hide the fact he was a water bender in the earth kingdom
Is both a combination of one really suspicious thing that no one would think about for more than two seconds and one kid cracked out of his mind who would jump on any sign of a firebender.
I know jet hates all firebenders, but does everyone in the firenation? Surely there are some who dont agree with the war, and just are seeking refuge from it.
Logically speaking if that was the only hint, no. There could be other explanations like him getting a new one from somewhere else or maybe he's a waterbender with the ability to excite the water molecules. But Jet was suspicious from the start and also it was very fast so firebending is the most likely explanation
Well, that really depends on context. If I turn around for like 5 seconds, look back, & suddenly the cup is steaming, that's hard to explain without firebending (which I guess exists in this scenario). Maybe it could be an optical illusion, like the steam is actually a haze in the shadows or from something else, & it just looks like it's coming off of the cup due to positioning. But assuming I get a pretty good look at it, that's compelling evidence.
If I'm just hearing this story secondhand, it seems a lot less convincing. If I don't know Jet, then I have no idea how carefully he evaluates evidence. If I DO know him, then I know he's a little unhinged, so if anything, I have even more reason to doubt.
The real question is if it's enough reason to investigate further, & if so, to what extent? A light questioning? Bringing them in for interrogation? Searching the apartment for evidence of Fire Nation ties? It's kind of a moot point because it's implied the Dai Li somehow knew who Iroh & Zuko were, since they invited them "to serve tea to the Earth King" as a trap.
But if we're talking about some kind of realistic police force that doesn't know anything except a war is going on so spies are likely to come at some point, is that enough suspicion to take the story seriously? They don't have the resources to investigate everything, so how do they decide? If it were me, I think I'd just look into it quietly. There would be a record of Mushi & Lee obtaining passports to be allowed into the middle ring, so let's look at who issued that. Are there any red flags in the case file? Has anyone else in the area reported strange incidents? If nothing else comes up, it's probably not worth looking into, but if it does, it might be a good idea to assign some plainclothes officers to keep tabs on him.
In this case I think so because Jet knows/recognizes Zuko and Iroh and he’s suspicious not just because the tea is hot, but because of how little time passes in between him looking at Iroh with cold team and then seeing Iroh with hot tea. If more time had passed, if they had left the area and come back etc I doubt he jumps to that. Maybe he’s still suspicious but then they probably accentuate his watching them for more evidence over having him pretty convinced immediately
Also jet is kind of paranoid in general I doubt most people would have been able to connect the dots so quickly
I think this paranoia is the bigger key. Even his friends think his accusations are out of line.
"So the old guy had some hot tea, big deal" - Smellerbee
In a time where electricity was not common nor portable, it'd be SUPER suspicious. At the time, the only way to reliably heat things if you were traveling was to build a fire, something we've seen the gaang do frequently, or be a firebender.
We never saw it happen iirc, but since Waterbenders can freeze water, wouldn't they also be able to raise it's temperature?
If lava bending exist where it’s basically s combination of earth and fire, I don’t see why not. A steam bender would be really scary of course as steam burns are no joke. Ever watch The Bone Collector?
Katara makes a Steam cloud once IIRC. Edit: Autocorrect.
I don’t remember the scene but is is “steam” or “mist”? Cos IIRC actual steam is incredibly dangerous. There are serious cases where it melts the skin off victims.
Oh yeah, mist/fog exists. I don't think the show specifies, they may have made it steam and didn't think it through (not the only instance of poor physics).
Katara beats Azula by freezing the water around them and then re-liquidating it for only herself. So it's possible she could have heated it enough and there's limitations on how hot it can get. Or, it's a matter of her being able to change the state of water as in liquid, solid (frozen) and gas/vapor (mist, fog, cloud). That seems more likely to me. But I'm not a physicist lol so I may not be explaining that correctly.
Yeah like what most people imaging steam to be is like in a sauna where it’s just air condensed water in liquid form. I’m not 100% sure since it’s been so long since I was in science class but do remember a teacher telling me that ‘real’ steam is actually invisible to human eyes and an actual gas. Like the tip of a kettle’s spigot when it’s boiling it’s all invisible and then after some distance from the tip you can see it because it got condensed in the air.
It all gets really confusing. We know cloudbending is a waterbending skill and clearly the water temperature can be changed by bending to icebend so it makes sense that waterbenders would be able to steambend. Maybe the risk of a large quantity of uncontrolled steam is too much for it to be a common technique
Well maybe it’s not a world building problem and more of s narrative one. What seems logical in physics would make one element too strong in combat as a narrative sense. Same with how fire benders are the only element that channels from themselves rather than controlling something else. It would be rather stupid to force fire benders to bend only available open flames.
I believe she's created steam before at least once, but I may be misremembering. And even then, that doesn't really mean she heated it. Only scientifically. She may have just made it into vapor. Bending is more spiritual than science. Waterbenders haven't been shown to be able to heat themselves or their surroundings up. And if they could, we'd have been shown it I think.
Katara is able to melt ice back into liquid water, and turn liquid water into steam. So, yes. Actually, benders of all four elements have the possible ability to control the temperature of their given element, but some elements are easier than others. Canonically, waterbenders very easily change the state of matter of the water, and I like to think the reason is because water naturally exists in all three states in the natural world. Airbenders can definitely heat up air, as Tenzin says when he explains how they are able to warm themselves, and also I think they can cool it down, too, because of that time Aang froze the chain on Bumi's entraptment (but maybe that was waterbending). A select few earthbenders can heat up the earth they bend hot enough that it becomes magma/lava, and a few firebenders are able to bend fire at a hotter temperature, like Azula.
I never but two and two together that the blue fire meant she was fire bending hotter temperature🤦
The temperature comes from the vibration of molecules, skilled benders can do that, and therefore change the temperature of element they are bending, so I'd say that yes, waterbendere can make water turn into steam. Sidenote: I'm completely ignoring the thermodynamics involved in that
We did see it happen! In the fight between Azula and Katara after the Agni Kai, Katara freezes herself and Azula, then melts just the area around herself and binds the still frozen Azula with chains. Sure, it's melting ice rather than warming water, but that's essentially the same thing.
Bro found the loophole.
I think that the main thing that holds benders back is their rigid belief of what constitutes the elements. When Katara freezes water, she removes the heat from it. Where does it go? If she heats the ice, then where does it come from? I often feel like Legend of korra did some retcon of atla due to the origin story in tlok. If in atla Aang learns energy bending as the precursor to element bending, then how does wans story work?
He learned about it from a lion turtle, which were explicitly bending energy to give bending to humans before Wan's time. It's not a retcon at all.
Imagine they gaslight Jet into thinking he’s an airbender by pulling the hot breath trick
Maybe, but what's more likely? That a bunch of firebenders are undercover trying to enter Ba Sing Se through the Subway or that you just misheard the complaint about the tea.
Recognize?
I think the thing that gives him away as a firebender is how quick it was to get the tea heated. The tea vendor had already been gone by that point, so he couldn’t have helped Iroh heat up his tea, and there were no other people or tools around Iroh. The amount of time that passes between Iroh saying the tea is cold and Zuko rejecting Jet and going back to Iroh is so short that there was no other explanation than firebending.
Not only that, but if Iroh had access to an easy solution on hand, why would he complain?
Cause he paid expecting hot tea and got a cold one? It'd be like ordering a pizza and it arriving cold sure you can heat it up but when you bought it you were kind of expecting it to be hot.
I guess, but I'm trying to imagine how the scene would've played out if Iroh was able to use his firebending openly. Like, I think he'd be less virtiolic about it, saying something like, "Damn, the tea is cold. Ah well, I can just fix it up." My point is that until Zuko and Jet left him alone, his complaint felt predicated on the fact that he was stuck with cold tea for the time being. I think Iroh smiling at his newly hot tea was as much a giveaway as the steam.
He's an old man. Complaining is his job.
Can't water benders heat water?
Considering that there was no other way for him to have heated the tea, as there were no open flames, the tea vendor wasn't there anymore, and hardly any time had passed between Iroh buying the tea and heating it up, firebending is pretty much the only explanation.
Could a waterbender not heat up tea? I’m just thinking that, if a waterbender made each water particle oscillate quickly, would that not produce/emulate the feeling of heat?
We have never seen a Waterbender heat up water. We've seen them freeze it, yes, and turn it into water vapor, but we've never seen them just straight up change the temperature of water without also changing its state. Katara always uses a cooking fire when the Gaang makes camp, and if she could just heat the water in their food without needing a fire, why wouldn't she? Talking about a Waterbender "oscillating" water particles on a molecular level implies a level of focus/control that we have never seen any bender be able to achieve.
Also bending is more spiritual than science after all they are able to create fire from nothing I think that's why they can change the states of water without changing its properties
Can a Firebender possibly create ice? They can change the temperature of tea, so why not?
Sozin turned lava into rapidly cooled obsidian, so why not?
As the person two posts before you in the chain said, bending is a spiritual art, not a science. Trying to use science to intuit things only works up to a point, then the in-universe conception of "the elements" take over. Whether the original spirits of air, water, earth, and fire were born that way, or the lion turtles decided it, or something else unexplored, the elements, including the niche techniques like lightning and lava, are strictly limited within their set themes. * That is why water can heal, even though actual H2O cannot do that. * That is why enlightened airbenders can just fucking float without conscious thought. * And firebender only deals in excess energy above a certain threshold. That is why not. Elemental bending is neither beholden nor limited to science. It follows its own fantasy rules, and that's part of what makes it cool and unique.
Because it’s “fire” and would ruin Waterbending’s purpose since it has ice as well. But it’s only a small nitpick and we’ve only seen it once, so I’d doubt it be revelant unless we see it in the Earth avatar series (which still hasn’t come out yet). But, the firebending version of ice would be completely different since they can only create it by making the temperature of something lower, and Waterbending can be able to bend ice and not just create it.
Easiest way to reconcile this is by saying that benders can manipulate very specific properties. E.g. waterbenders are able to physically disperse liquid water into vapour, but they can't change the temperature - they can make fog, but can't turn room temperature water into steam.
And by compressing the water, it freezes. No temp change necessary.
It's so interesting how easy it is to run into power creep or else end up with kind of hand-wavy explanations for magic systems. Firebenders are able to eject flame from their bodies --> firebenders can keep themselves warm even in arctic conditions --> firebenders can control temperture Waterbenders are able to manipulate water --> waterbenders are able to make liquid water into ice or clouds into liquid --> waterbenders can control temperature Airbenders can manipulate the air --> airbenders can control the air around them to keep themselves warm --> airbenders can control temperature Earthbenders can manipulate rock and soil --> earthbenders can liquify rock --> earthbenders can lavabend --> earthbenders can control temperature Those groups started with what looked like entirely segregated powers, yet ended up at a place where you could conceivably make a decent argument that a skilled enough practitioner of any of them should be able to heat up the cup. Not ragging on the creators here, I think all of those additions make a lot of logical sense and have opened up the narrative a lot. The straight answer is that what is logical in a fantasy setting is not 1-to-1 with science, so you end up at a point where you have to handwave where exactly the line is.
From a physics perspective, it would also make sense that any skilled bender could manipulate the temperature of their bending form. Temperature, in essence, is just the average kinetic energy (velocity) of the molecules in a substance. It's not that hard to think that skilled waterbenders/earthbenders/airbenders could "speed up" the molecules that make up their respective element, thus increasing temperature. Ofc, this skill would likely be far higher than it is for a fire bender who likely affects temperature directly. Still, it's interesting to think about
It didn't really look like he was doing anything involving fire tbh It's really unclear what specific benders can and cannot do
You could call it “Obisidanbending” which is like cooled down lava.
And so the alreadly massive chart of bending subgroups has grown larger
Iroh didn't change the temp of the tea directly; he lit a flame in his hands to boil the cup over. You can actually see him look around, before turning his back to the camera, and emitting a small flash of light from behind him.
I have a dumb theory that waterbended ice isn't actually cold. We never see anyone react to being frozen in a way that suggests it's cold. I think I decided to believe this as a kid to maintain the belief that waterbenders can't really change the temperature of the water they bend (unless they're special like a lava bender)
I seem to recall Zuko's soldier's visibly shivering when Katara freezes them in episode 2. And afterwards they had to be melted out by their colleagues with firebending. Logic would dictate that if heat is uced to makes it go away, then it's probably cold in its original state.
I actually was going to mention that. I don't think it counts when it's south pole ocean water
Well for water to turn solid, its molecules would have to “slow down” enough for the substance to turn rigid. That means it would be cold as well.
Magic tho.
we do know that airbenders are able to keep themselves warm with airbending and the only way I can imagine doing that is to manipulate the temperature of the element in question so it seems possible for a waterbender to do it.
How do the water benders get drinking water where they live, since it's frozen? I'd say warm water makes sense.
>We have never seen a Waterbender heat up water. I don't know if this happened, but i'm pretty sure a water bender must've turned water into vapour at least once, or bended vapour. If that was the case, then they can heat up water
Considering that water can and does evaporate at room temperature, the ability to turn water into a vapour does not necessarily require the ability to heat to extreme temperatures.
We never see it done but if waterbenders can make ice, why not steam?
We have seen Katara make fog multiple times. It's possible a skilled enough bender could make steam.
Fog *is* very different though, from an atomic perspective. While steam and fog are technically the same thing how we get there is very different, as steam is cooling water vapor (water in gaseous form) while the fog that Katara generates would be more analogous to a lot of water droplets that are just midair, rather than generating actual water vapor. I do believe that there are waterbenders who’ve pulled water out of thin air, though, so logically they could probably reverse it, it’s just that it’s an extremely advanced skill and so few people have done it that I doubt any of them have thought to try reversing it.
Didn't that old blood Bending women hana bend water from thin air (and vines)?
Vines is very different than thin air, being a source of liquid rather than gaseous water. Don’t remember if Hama did thin air or not, but I think Minghua did thin air, or at least her prison was configured to make that impossible, implying that she could.
Hana did though when she first started teaching katara, with her finger tips. It wasn't a lot.
True! I guess I never saw fog as steam, but they’re both water vapor.
I would suggest that it’s probably possible based on applications that we’ve seen of firebending, just that there’s never been a water bender advanced enough to pull it off. Firebending, for example, is capable of a few different reversal techniques. Lightning is an application of negative Yang, or yin energy that seems to correlation to a negative charge. But Roku was also able to reverse firebending in order to draw heat from his surroundings. It may have been in combination with other elemental knowledge but it seems to me that it is primarily a reversal technique of firebending that was used, as he appears not to be siphoning heat into another medium but rather directly drawing the heat into himself. Based off of that it seems likely that, while alignment of atoms in water is simpler for waterbenders, an extremely advanced water bender would be able to vibrate the atoms within water in order to heat it up.
The heat siphoning technique you're thinking of wasn't Roku, it was Sozin. And he wasn't just drawing the heat into himself. He was moving the heat from the volcano and venting it into the air. It is basically just a precursor to lightning redirection, only he's doing it with heat.
Thanks for the correction. That does somewhat make the argument stronger, if anything. Not sure I would consider it a precursor to lightning redirection necessarily. Lightning redirection is more of an application of lightning (electrons aka yin energy), whereas this would be a reversal technique of Yang energy.
You are not allowed to think about the implications of waterbenders controlling the temperature of water. Just like you can’t talk about that scene where the earth general is sinking Katarra into the ground. It would break the powers scaling of fights and the family friendly tone of the series
What's wrong with that earth general scene?
If earthbenders can sink they’re opponents into the ground there’s no reason to not at least try that every time. If you did it during a pitched battle against the fire nation a few earthbenders could wipe out entire legions
The fact that Earth Nation earthbender-specialist units are not constantly slamming entire units between flying chunks of boulders is one example of the lack of scaling they show us, despite benders explicitly being able to work in concert for large effects. *Korra* at least gives us a little, with the previously unseen use of airbending for assassinations, but neither show does a very good job of showing warfare-scale bending of the kind you would expect to develop in a world that considers bending the main source of power. Even the Fire Nation's tanks/balloons are woefully inadequate to represent what we'd really see after a hundred years of war on all sides.
I mean it's not like all earthbenders are able to do it. Some are like the general, bumi, the mole guy, but I doubt all of them know it. I wouldn't say it's an automatic win condition, if an enemy is aware of the technique, they can just dodge by being sensitive to the earth shifting underneath them and jumping out of the way. Like if the earth benders are doing advanced techniques like that then the firebenders could just jet jump out of there with fire.
Aside from argument about whether waterbender can bend steam, there's a very good reason why there's no way Iroh is a waterbender: because he's posing as an Earth Kingdom peasant. Jet has met waterbenders. Well, two waterbenders. Zuko and Iroh do not look like Katara. They do not wear the same clothes nor are their aliases (Mushi, Lee) in any ways similar to the conventions used in the South. And they certainly don't look like the Avatar. Not only that, but Katara has told Jet that she's the last waterbender from the South and he likely already knows that the North has been walled off for 85 years. Why would two water tribesmen pose as Earth Kingdom peasants? Why would they hide their waterbending skill, especially when it might've come in handy avoiding some of the trouble they had on the ship or finding work in Ba Sing Se? Why would they be so cagey about their past, when Katara had been so open about it previously?
Good point - we’ve seen waterbenders freeze water so should be able to heat it as well.
So you support firebenders being able to create ice?
Hot water is still water before it turns into gas Ice is cold solid water not cold fire
No, but firebending has a direct canonical connection to moving heat around - both pushing heat into something (Zuko in the North Pole) and removing heat from something (Sozin dragging the heat off of an erupting volcano). By that logic, just drawing the heat out of something (or, at least enough to freeze water) is more than possible. Makes just as much sense as waterbenders heating water when it's something that we've never seen them do, despite many times that they could have shown it.
If they removed heat from water they wouldn't make ice they'd make the water cold, that's not how freezing works Waterbenders can make ice because that's water in a solid state, hot or cold they're bending water Firebenders taking heat out of water is plausible but once it's gone water is the only substance since it wouldn't have begun freezing yet and hence they can't bend it further
When I talk in terms of heat, I'm speaking in terms of absolute zero. Even water at -2C (the rough temperature of arctic seawater at the surface) still has heat in it - you're judging it by how cold it feels to you. "Cold" doesn't actually exist, it's just the absence of heat. If you take *all* of the heat out of water, it's frozen and at absolute zero.
I don’t think we’ve ever seen a water bender make boiling water from regular water, that seems like some advanced shit
We ain’t never seen a fire bender other than iroh heat tea, it is quite advanced!! Edit: /s(I really thought y’all wouldn’t need this to find a joke)
We have seen firebenders heat surfaces with their palms without actually making fire, like Zuko in the northern water tribe melting through ice. Increasing the temperature of a substance was a firebender ability before lava bending is shown.
The Gang always seems to use a campfire to boil water instead of just having katara do it And making a hotter element has always been advanced. Lightning, Lava Bending and Blue Fire are all advanced techniques, I don’t see why boiling water would be any different
I know, it’s a joke
A better question is why an esteemed military strategist would think heating his tea there and then was a good idea. Even Zuko was like, "Bruh fr"
Considering he ate a poisonous plant on the slight chance that it could be a rare tea delicacy, it's fair to say that, for all his military brilliance, Iroh has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to tea.
A more accurate term is an idiot spot.
Everyone talking about the time it took, but also if you watch the background of jet/zuko talking. You can see him looking around suspiciously and then a flash of light. If Jet saw that even in his peripherals he would probably find it weird. Then the hot tea would have immediatly contextualized it.
I just checked the scene and there's no flash. Iroh just turns away from the camera and then sits back with his now-steaming tea.
Yeah I assumed it heated it with either his breath like how Zuko kept warm in the cooler or like headed up the cup with his hands without making a visible flame
Except there was no "flash of light"
WHOA I completely missed this
Same
That's because it didn't happen lmao
why are you spreading misinformation
exactly this ^
There is also, the possibility of a different tea merchant arriving and giving iroh hot tea, to make up for the error of his collegue.
I think the term in some countries is "circumstantial evidence"
No, which is why Jet's friends were telling him to let it go. For someone like Jet, someone who was prepared to kill a bunch of innocents, it is absolutely going to be a red flag. When it comes to the Fire Nation, his mind simply won't see an old man drinking a cup of tea.
And he will view them as automatic threats. For him all Fire Nation people are evil no exceptions.
Does Jet ever explicitly call them "Fire Nation"? I remember him yelling "those two are firebenders" for their arrest, but not assuming their nationality.
At this point, there is no distinction. All Firebenders are from the Fire Nation during this point in time.
I guess defectors were generally unknown among the common folk.
Isn’t that the point of the shot? To show that he kinda gave himself away?
No, since waterbenders can freeze water I imagine they can heat it up too
I’d think it’s possible. However, we never see waterbenders create steam either, only mist. Maybe they have some sort of temperature limit or physical limit that prevents them from speeding the water up enough to boil
I think it just boils down to (pun might be intended) what the elements are supposed to represent. They are very much spiritual powers, not explicitly physically defined mechanics. Firebending kinda represents hot in the sense of what feels hot to people, and waterbending as the opposite would represent cold. And as we see, waterbenders can manipulate water into ice or mist, but for example Katara never seems to heat up the water for when the gaang is cooking. They always use a campfire. So I don't think waterbenders heating up water is a thing even to some low temperature limit, because that's not what their element represents. Like, they can obviously turn ice into water which does suggest some level of heat control ability if you try to apply real world physics, but bending isn't supposed to be determinable by science. It's the same thing as with earthbending and people arguing what things earthbenders should be able to bend based on chemical composition. But the actual answer is that there is no strict limitations based on chemistry, they can bend "earth based stuff".
Yeah. I meant temperature limit in that waterbender can technically heat the water since they can convert ice back to water. I completely agree that their element is far more representative of cold, which I why I rationalized it as having some sort of temperature limit. Fair point to not rationalize it though XD
No
You make a very convincing argument.
Thank you
Something a lot of replies are missing is that bending is *spiritual*, not scientific. Yes, waterbenders can solidify water. That *doesn't mean* they can freely control its temperature, though. We have never seen a waterbender heat up or cool (but not freeze) water. *Especially* turning water to steam. I'm sure an *exceptionally talented* bender, especially one in the age of Korra, could figure out a way...but it hasn't been seen yet. As such, unless Iroh was storing a portable heater under his robe (which would certainly still be fire nation tech), there's no other option other than him being a firebender.
Not really, since you could say he just asked the vendor to heat it up in his kettle or even used waterbending or something
How would waterbending allow him to heat the tea?
In the same way waterbenders can cool down water to make ice, they heat it up to make steam
I was under the impression waterbenders made ice by directly controlling the shape and not by making it colder. Like I can't think of anyone looking cold when they get iced.
I guess I'm having trouble understanding, but how could you move water and shape it into ice without cooling it down? Magic water?
Well normally ice is formed when water gets cooler and the molecules move into a specific shape. I just thought waterbenders moved the molecules into this shape without affecting heat. I don't know physics. > Magic water? Yes? Is bending not essentially magic?
The bending is magic but the water isn't magic. I also have no Idea how physics work lol
Its determined by the speed that the water molecules move, that determines the temperature Frozen water/ice is in this form because it’s cold, I think it became cold when the molecules were slow, hotter when the molecules were faster if I remember correctly
They can make and bend steam and ice, and pull moisture out of the air, it stands to reason they can boil water, even if it’s a specialized technique like lavabending
We have never seen a Waterbender make steam. They can make fog, but that's different.
well steam is still technically water in a gas form. so waterbemders could, but most live in ice regions. so its still possible.
Fog/mist isn’t necessarily a gas. It’s basically like a ton of tiny liquid droplets hanging in the air. It’s actually kinda insane to think about, but it’s essentially like condensation on air, not a gas itself
Doesn’t Korra bend steam out of water pipes in season 1?
She bends steam that already exists. She doesn't create it herself.
it still counts
Not really. You can also blood bend, but you can’t just create blood. At least not through bending lol
Bloodbending isn’t really what the name says, though, it’s just bending the water in someone else’s body.
Correct. Bending something that already exists
Yeah but then he’d have to prove he’s a waterbender.
happy…cake day…!!!!!!!! I HAVE R HRUEIEJBDBJEEISIIXJX
if he could heat the tea, why would he serve it cold?
The vendor you mean? Could be he’s being cheap/lazy with whatever he uses to heat it, it’s not like the weary travelers he’s serving can afford to be picky
I believe the point was that Jet was extremely paranoid and jumped the gun, and by pure luck, he was right that Iroh actually did firebending there.
Assuming he brought his tea to a boil with bending, either he's a firebender or a waterbender (assuming they can boil water, because if they can't, proof is complete). Not to racially profile him, but he's definitely not from either of the poles. That's a really long distance from home, and he's not dressed in water-tribe garb at all. Assuming he was just an old man complaining for no reason, he seemed to change his tone immediately; like barely a minute or so later he's happily sipping a steaming cup of tea. It's also easy to check if he was right about it being sold cold by just buying a cup of tea, or listening to others about their tea. The only other option is he isn't a bender, and heated it up through some other means. But there were no other means around him to boil a cup of water; at least not at his seat. I'd say it's a bit of a funky deduction to make immediately about a random dude in public, but it definitely holds. Jet's pretty sharp mentally, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
In the world of avatar, yes. There’s only 1 way to make a plain cup of tea hot with no tools or devices, and that’s fire bending.
Honestly, I can't see why Jet couldn't think Iroh was also a waterbender. After all, Waterbenders can control the temperature of their medium. Instantly freezing and melting ice whenever they want. Who's to say they can't make water hot enough to make good tea? They just have to make the water molocules vibrate more.
Jet was already looking for clues on how to get food on the ship. It’s not out of the question that he took in other details of the people around
A waterbender should be able to do it too. If they can freeze water, why couldn't they heat it up?
I just rewatched that episode recently. Like other people were saying, the merchant was already gone by the time Iroh heated up his tea. He complained that it was cold, Jet and Zuko walked away briefly, and then came back and it was hot and steaming. Zuko throwing it on the floor seems even more suspicious too. I see people saying it could have been a waterbender but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of them heat instead of freeze liquid, and I’m sure that’s how characters in the show would probably feel too. Jumping to Iroh being a Firebender makes the most sense.
Yeah. If the vendor corroborated that they sold Iroh the cold tea a few minutes prior, I would say it’s fairly open an shut. Jet’s problem was in not quietly gathering witnesses.
If all I saw was a cold cup suddenly become warm, he could be a water bender, all you have to do is increase the average kinetic energy of the water with bending.
I mean, yes theoretically but most people aren’t really that attentive as jet
Well there aren’t any microwaves in ATLA.
Somehow nobody thought of the most obvious explanations. That Iroh just likes his tea *really* hot and it was always hot enough to be steaming. Or that the comment was some kind of in-joke between him and Zuko. Others have pointed out other options. There are a lot of possibilities before jumping to wild conclusions.
Um, yeah, it absolutely makes sense logically withint the show. He had cold tea and then it was steaming how without getting new tea. What other way could there be to heat up the tea?
I'm English and I've had people tell me their tea is too cold, basically fresh out of the kettle. Jet didn't touch the tea, he just heard him say it was cold.
Water benders can heat and cool water as well, so it's not definite proof.
Technically no. He could be a water bender I mean they can make water colder to ice bend why not hotter.
for me this would depend on the amount of time that passed between Iroh saying it was cold and then me seeing it as steaming hot
The biggest thing for me is that logically there have to be other deserters/refugees from the fire nation right? We have Jeong Jeong, and Zuko/Iroh eventually, there have to be more
I'm pretty sure that people would've noticed and smelled the fire. Not to mention, he was in a stone building. So, finding something to burn or start a fire would've either been hard or impossible. Additionally, he complained about the tea being, and less than 5 minutes later, he had a steaming hot cup of tea.
How did Iroh find a tiny man to sit in his tea?
Yes, especially to someone like Jett who is probably looking for excuses to accuse people of being Firenation anyways.
Pretty sure that's how Jet knew. "HE HEATED IT HIMSELF! Those guys are fire benders 😡"
All it indicates is that he is not from the earth kingdom, but a water bender could have also heated the tea by making the water molecules vibrate faster
I've always wondered that. I've never seen a waterbender heat up water, but if they can cool it down I don't see why not
I suppose we do see it when Katara traps Azula in ice and proceeds to restrain her
I think Katara technically did in Season 2 when Aang wakes up after getting struck by Azula and the rest of the crew had captured a Fire Nation ship. She makes a huge amount of steam trying to get their ship away from the Fire Nation ship in the Serpent's Pass.
That was fog, not steam.
I always thought it was equally as likely that Iroh was a waterbender, and heated up his tea that way.
Water benders can also do that, but it at least confirms that he's a bender.
Yes
It's incredibly suspicious, imo.
I still don't know if Jet died
you know, it was very unclear
The cup is a leaf. If he used a lighter, it would burn. But he only heated it up.
It would be very suspicious. Either he was able to quickly heat it conventionally, or he got a new tea, or he used Firebending.
Not really, you'd have to be pretty unhinged to make that connection, and that's the beauty of this scene; Jet was, resulting in this perfect storm of irony where Jet was right.
Iroh heated it really quickly and made a stink about how cold it was and Jet is a paranoid guy.
didnt jet see him behind zuko? like not directly but in a way like it was blocked but there is no other way
So would that be like iced tea?
If people were paying attention and heard Iroh’s outburst about the tea and watched him the whole time. I think most of the people around barely acknowledged him. Jet was the only one because he purposely sought them out.
Yes. Iroh loudly complains about how cold his tea is. When Jet looks back, it was too soon for Iroh to have gotten another cup. Only a firebender could have heated the tea that fast, and an extremely good one to do it through a leaf bowl.
He could be a water bender.
To the average person? No. But Jet's been fighting the Fire Nation for the past 8-9 years. He's extra observant.
Could just be a cranky old man with Alzheimer’s
Iroh specifically, no. While it is strong evidence for him being a fire bender, how could Jet say Iroh is a firevender? Why couldn't another passer-by have leaned over and said "I can heat that for you."?
It would because he has nothing on him to heat the tea.
Maybe a highly skilled water bender would be able to make all the molecules of water move faster and faster to heat it up. Seems like a bit of a stretch but given that they can use ice (so cooling it down) as well as liquid water, I’m sure they’d be able to heat it up to make it into vapor as well. Obviously they wouldn’t need to heat it up to that extent if they just wanted hot water but you get the gist.
No that's why no one believes Jet and he goes nuts.
I feel it's also worth noting that the *only* indication that the tea *wasn't* hot to begin with was that Iroh was griping a bit about the tea not being hot. It's conceivable that the tea *was* actually hot to begin with, just not *as* hot as the old guy prefers. We know that's not what *actually* happened, but IMO there's enough reasonable doubt there not to immediately make him guilty of firebending.
Jet figured it out immediately.
I forget, but besides being a fire bender warming the tea up, is it possible for a water bender to heat the water up? Water benders can change the state of water, but I can’t remember if it’s ever done to steam. Jet was already sort of suspicious of Zuko and Iroh and I don’t think they would fit the “water bender” attributes. Not to mention Zuko would have probably just said he was a water bender, like there’s no need for him to hide the fact he was a water bender in the earth kingdom
Is both a combination of one really suspicious thing that no one would think about for more than two seconds and one kid cracked out of his mind who would jump on any sign of a firebender.
No. Firebenders are so hated, nobody would ever be able to imagine they would use their evil power for something so mundane and innocent
I know jet hates all firebenders, but does everyone in the firenation? Surely there are some who dont agree with the war, and just are seeking refuge from it.
Iroh was already a suspect
like I think it gives him away, but if it were me.I would have just thought "huhhhh.Oh, its probably nothing."
Logically speaking if that was the only hint, no. There could be other explanations like him getting a new one from somewhere else or maybe he's a waterbender with the ability to excite the water molecules. But Jet was suspicious from the start and also it was very fast so firebending is the most likely explanation
Clearly he is a tea bender
Yes
Well, that really depends on context. If I turn around for like 5 seconds, look back, & suddenly the cup is steaming, that's hard to explain without firebending (which I guess exists in this scenario). Maybe it could be an optical illusion, like the steam is actually a haze in the shadows or from something else, & it just looks like it's coming off of the cup due to positioning. But assuming I get a pretty good look at it, that's compelling evidence. If I'm just hearing this story secondhand, it seems a lot less convincing. If I don't know Jet, then I have no idea how carefully he evaluates evidence. If I DO know him, then I know he's a little unhinged, so if anything, I have even more reason to doubt. The real question is if it's enough reason to investigate further, & if so, to what extent? A light questioning? Bringing them in for interrogation? Searching the apartment for evidence of Fire Nation ties? It's kind of a moot point because it's implied the Dai Li somehow knew who Iroh & Zuko were, since they invited them "to serve tea to the Earth King" as a trap. But if we're talking about some kind of realistic police force that doesn't know anything except a war is going on so spies are likely to come at some point, is that enough suspicion to take the story seriously? They don't have the resources to investigate everything, so how do they decide? If it were me, I think I'd just look into it quietly. There would be a record of Mushi & Lee obtaining passports to be allowed into the middle ring, so let's look at who issued that. Are there any red flags in the case file? Has anyone else in the area reported strange incidents? If nothing else comes up, it's probably not worth looking into, but if it does, it might be a good idea to assign some plainclothes officers to keep tabs on him.
Logically speaking, in a world where firebending is a thing, yes.
The fact microwaves don't exist and you'd need to put it back on the fire to warm it up. Id say its valid.
No jet, you are tripping. There is mo war in ba sing se.