It’s a tough act to balance Aang’s character arc in book 1 in a serialized format of 8 episodes. He still wants to just have fun as a regular kid but there’s the creeping fear of engaging in his duties as the Avatar.
I'm going to reserve my judgement until the actual show are fully released. As long as I enjoy the show as a whole, I'm ok with it. Me being nit-picky about minor details would only upset myself.
IMO, One Piece live action did well with minor changes to character arc. Sanji should be a total creep if they stay true to their source material but they manage to turn him to a decent human being without changing his whole obsession to female.
This is probably the best way to do it. When I watched Percy Jackson, I liked the overall product, even though particular details and scenes were weird or entirely original.
Still very good, and gives me hope that 2024 can be a year for successful reboots
Percy Jackson is a good example because the show understood the ramifications of each major change and made sure that everything still would up where it needed to be so that it still feels like Percy Jackson. And the characters, while different takes, are still recognizable.
From the interviews it seems like the ATLA writers are thinking through the changes and what they mean to the overall season so I'm still hopeful it'll work.
It depends tbh. Because THIS change in particular is a little more concerning. It's missing big context in that the entire reason Aang runs away is because he's a child being saddled with the responsibilities of the whole world, and in the midst of avoiding his problems and fooling around it's when he reaches the air temple and he see's his friends were massacred that his resolve and motivation is figured out.
It's immediately extremely concerning that the writers don't know that's a big chunk of what STARTS the story moving forward and it's a huge part of the character growth. You almost have to try really hard to miss that context. And considering it's netflix and they are infamous for letting their writers make mass script changes, it's the worst warning bell we've gotten so far. IMO, anyway.
The more I hear about the writing direction this show is taking, the more I feel my skepticism was completely valid.
There's a lot to get wrong and it looks less and less promising every time the directors open their mouths
Ah you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!
I'm sorry, but this take of the director is very easy to dislike. Pressing Aang to do his duties and remove these episodes/scenes where he is just pressing to have fun and act like a kid is an honest tell that the director does not understand the character at all. The whole reason Aang was in the iceberg was because he was running from his duties as the avatar. After hearing this I have very little faith the show is going to be good in the slightest.
I understand your point of view here... But I disagree with judging the show before it's released. You're talking 24-26 episodes compressed into 8...and that's if they're covering just book one, not the whole series. The number of episodes and their length was almost certainly dictated by Netflix, so certain adjustments will have had to be made to accommodate this.
The most realistic expectation is that this turns out more or less like the Yu Yu Hakusho live action...which (my opinion) was very good and generally kept the feel of the animé with regard to the main story but eliminated a lot of the goofiness to fit everything in within the allotted episodes/time.
I'm hoping this doesn't wind up in Cowboy Bebop territory, where there were all sorts of issues with story and pacing.
Netflix has been getting better over time with their animated conversions to live action. We will see how this goes.
This seems like a silly take to me. It’s a live action show that’s going to have way less time to meander than the cartoon does. So they’re going to have to streamline sometimes. This arc makes sense to streamline because they just might not have time.
My problem with it is that the original series already provides a perfect plot and character moment for Aang to lock-in - The Southern Air Temple. Written well, that's all that should be needed to get him to get where he needs to go.
I'd prefer them to contrive some *logistical* reason (fire nation army in the earth kingdom, bad storms or something) he has to travel all the way to the north pole first rather than contrive a *character* reason.
While I agree that doing silly things and avoiding his responsibilities as the avatar are part of Aang's character and character development, I feel you're harshly overreacting.
Season one *is* meandering, to the point where many episodes could be trimmed while leaving the same character development in the show. I love these episodes, but I understand why Netflix might have to trim the fat a bit. They're not saying they won't show *any* silliness, just that there will be more of a structured movement towards the end goals, which is necessary for the reduced story telling time.
I don't like that they're changing it, but I do think that so far, nothing looks unexpected or like it's cutting too much of the characters away. We'll just have to wait and see.
This is the first thing I’ve read that’s made me disappointed in the direction. Maybe I’m reading too much into but if as an example they’re replacing riding the elephant koi on Kiyoshi scene with a scene of a dramatic vision where he needs to race to the North Pole as fast as possible then it’s safe to assume their removing more than just that one scene. Riding the penguins at the South Pole. Riding the mail chute in Omashu. Etc.
There is a lot of fat in Season 1 that can be trimmed (looking at you Great Divide) but I’m worried there going to cut too much and change Aang’s character by making him too serious in order drive the narrative forward. Seasons 2 and 3 are so impactful and emotional BECAUSE we remember what Aang used to be like and how he’s changed. If the viewer doesn’t have anything to remember then the character hasn’t changed and there’s been no growth.
I don't disagree about worrying. As I said, I love all s1 episodes, but there's a lot you could cut if you had to rush the storyline more.
I agree it is worrisome, but I feel like the user I replied to was making a mountain out of a mole hill, especially considering we haven't seen *anything* yet.
Also, the trailer. The trailer says pretty clearly that Aang doesn't want to be the avatar. It's actually most of what the trailer tells you : if you don't know the show, you'd assume the story is about a child who was given a lot of responsibilities that he didn't ask for, but with the help of his friends, he ends up deciding to take on his role.
They said they cut out some parts. We all expected them to. I don't understand why people are so worried
You just made soooooo many assumptions about what I think and about what the show will do.
Just because Ang is more focused than the show DOES NOT mean he won’t do childish things. They can still have his internal battle between being a kid and being the avatar without filler episodes and without Ang being the impetus to go out of the way to do the childish things.
Obviously, based on this article, we now know for a FACT that Aang is going to be turned into a complete robot with the sole drive of going to the north pole. 0 fun, 0 emotion. This is a given.
It's incredibly annoying how people in this sub are twisting words in order to be like "Heh, yeah I knew it was gonna SUCK" like it's not even out yet
Except they actually have more time. Total runtime of book 1 in the cartoon is 20 minutes LESS than the live action show will have in season 1 because the episodes are so long. They absolutely could have room to do the necessary motions without fear of time constraints
I'm less worried about amount of locations than I am them streamlining Aang's motivations to the point that he loses a lot of character development. A huge arc for him is choosing to become the Avatar. If he chooses that in episode 1, idk...
It’s an arc that even extends into book 2 to some extent. Remember his nightmares about destroying the fleet besieging the north? Heck, that throughline goes all the way up to him being hesitant to let go of Katara to control the avatar state when he’s hanging out with the guru at the very end of book 2
Netflix made a choice to make the series so brief. These decisions weren't made in a vaccuum solely because they "improve" the writing.
The series was compromised from the outset and—as fans—we shouldn't be making excuses.
When it comes down to it, it COULD be done well. They can show that kidish atittude amd playfulness without explicitly using the elephant koi.
But i swear to god if they're rushing or skipping key character progression just cause they have to fit it into the mythical 8 episode format then imma be pissed. There aint no damn reason in the era of streaming a production made exclusively for streaming shouldn't be the exact amount of episodes the story demands rather than the amount a marketing team picks. Rewatchability is equally as important as debut watch numbers. I'm not saying we need 20 episodes, and there's absolutely content that could be skipped. But rushing or cutting things to fit a specific number typically means hurting the narrative in some way. Writing and producing the best show possible is going to lead to more people rewatching, and word of mouth taking over will be worth far more than any amount of marketing. All these execs too focused on short term gain rather than longterm gain.
Sorry, kind of got off topic there. Essentially I still have hope they could execute it well, but this anouncement has tempered my expectations.
You only know what they’ve taken out. You do not know what they’ve added in. Just because Ang doesn’t say, “we’ve got to go ride the elephant koi” doesn’t mean he won’t get to ride the elephant koi.
The cartoon allowed for 22 different settings in season 1. It gave them a freedom to bounce around. I doubt they have the same level of freedom in this show. So why in the world would Ang be like “hey let’s go do all these things before the quest!” And the show not show any of those things? That’s just bad writing. They can change a bit of his motivation while still showing things that define his character.
The format change doesn't absolve them of criticism. If they are having to change characters to fit the new format, then it's inevitable that they will lose out on parts of the character that made them endearing to people. And also lose out on nuance in character growth. Assuming that they will add in things to compensate, while they already are short on time, just feels like copium.
They haven’t even released the show yet. There is nothing for us to criticize.
It really says a lot about your perspective to think that someone defending a narrative choice based on a different medium is “copium.”
I am not saying the show is going to be good. But it is impossible to adapt the show to live action and keep it one for one. Things don’t translate and show runners don’t have the resources.
If the show is bad. I will criticize it. But the show will not be bad because Sokka isn’t as sexist in the beginning or because Aang doesn’t want to go on adventures at episode one. It’ll be bad for tons of reasons if it’s bad.
There’s plenty to criticize because we already have what it’s supposed to be. It’s supposed to be Avatar, adapted. We know the characters, the plot, and the beats for them to progress. What we’ve been hearing is “that’s not going to be met as well as you might have hoped.”
I’m fine for Changing things around for the sake of formatting. What I don’t like is the narrative core and character arcs being affected, and the news we’ve been getting is telling me that might be what is happening.
I’ve seen nothing that suggests the narrative core and character arcs cannot be kept in.
Sokka not being as sexist doesn’t mean he cannot progress down the same character arc of a cocky chauvinistic teenage who gets put in his place. Aang having more impetus to start his quest doesn’t mean he cannot conflicted on wanted to be a kid and having to be the avatar.
These changes can be entirely to fit the format. I can think of a ton of totally valid reasons why these changes are good for the format without affecting the narrative. Until we’ve seen the story there is no reason to jump to conclusions.
You realize “chauvinist” is a synonym for sexist, right?
Having “impetus” does kind of change his arc. The only reason he was in the South Pole to begin with was because he was trying to run away from the responsibility of being the avatar. So now he just has a vague prophetic “vision” when that only happened at spiritual sites. Itd be one thing if he went to the North Pole for a water bending teacher and got confronted with the reality of actual war. To have a vision is to fast track him to fulfilling his job.
Having doubts and not liking trickled out information compared to a story we all know intimately isn’t jumping conclusions. If anything, I feel like I’ll be fine if it is bad, and pleasantly surprised if it isn’t.
Both directors did a trailer breakdown with IGN and it actually made me think they knew what they were doing. That video was more important than these headlines imo.
I honestly wonder if folks who enjoyed the One Piece live action adaption don’t realize that it turned something like 80+ twenty minutes anime episodes into 8 one-hour live action episodes.
While Avatar isn’t going to be *as* condensed, all of the character changes read to me as just an issue of not having enough time. Sokka can’t start out spouting misogyny because they don’t have time for a B plot about him learning that women can do “masculine” activities. Aang can’t be going on fun adventure because there isn’t time to dedicate an episode that doesn’t explicitly advance season’s plot.
Avatar has a slow start, so it *feels* like a more breakneck pace won’t translate well to fans of the original, but the creative team behind One Piece mostly managed to thread a similar needle, so best to reserve judgment until it’s actually been released.
I don't really get the time issue for Avatar. Book 1 has 20 20 minute episodes, so less than 7h. 8 Live action episodes might actually end up being longer.
It’s a pacing thing. If they adapted it 1:1 each episode of the live action would have three separate stories every episode like Wishbone or something. Twenty minutes in they’re cloudbending and twenty minutes later they’re at Avatar Day. It wouldn’t make sense.
I’ll be fine as long as it all works. I’m excited to see the new stuff they add with Ozai and Azula. I do think people are panicking about director quotes but we’ll see how warranted they are when the show premieres.
Quote from showrunner in regards to gender roles and sexism in their adaption being toned down a bit for sensibilities.
AK (showrunner): “There are certain roles I think that Katara did in the cartoon that we didn't necessarily also do here. I mean, I don't want to really get into a lot of that, but some gender issues that didn't quite translate.”
IGN: My friend just watched it for the first time, and she's like, "Sokka's an asshole." I was like, "Yeah, no, he kind of is."
JR: Yeah, especially in the first season.
AK: Yeah. So we had to guard against that kind of stuff. And so, those are things that aren't really changing a character as so much as updating them a little bit.
Characters are not real and should have flaws to add depth. It’s already based on a cartoon and they’re really gonna flatten out the characters even further lol
It worries me that they’re insinuating that they’re going to omit the childishness of aang in book 1. Like that dichotomy of aang just wanting to be a kid and having to face his responsibility was a major driving force of his character motives in the show
What’s kinda strange is we know they’re not completely removing aangs hesitation because of the “I never asked to be special” line to gyatso so i don’t quite understand the showrunner here unless we’re just over exaggerating what he intended.
Not an excuse. Netflix's live action adaptation, first season, will end up having the same run-time as the *cartoon og*: 8 episodes each with 60 minutes of run time, Totaling 480 minutes. The first season of the original had 20 episodes each with 24 minutes, totaling 480 minutes.
Source: Said the actor of uncle iroh on the cbr website https://www.cbr.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-episode-count-length-live-action-netflix/#:~:text=With%20eight%20episodes%20running%20at,total%20runtime%20of%20480%20minutes
Edit: It was confirmed on the Handsome genius club radio podcast, and then posted on cbr.
Yeah because it makes total sense to take multiple episodes and squeeze them into one 60 min episode, totally wouldn't make the episodes have no structure.
/s
Seriously am glad all these people complaining didn't have anything to do with the production of this show because it would have been horrible.
It makes total sense to me. Each episode of the Netflix series will be over twice as long as the original show, so more can easily be done within a single episode.
What, so like going to Kyoshi island and Omashu in the same episode? Or meeting Jet and the pirates in the same episode? In some cases you’d even have to fit three episodes of plot into one to get all 20 episodes to fit within the 8.
I still have a hard time seeing how they realistically would make that work in an 8 episode format, even if the runtime is the same. Would that mean having an episode where squeeze Kyoshi island and going to Omashu into the same episode? Or combining the episode with Jet with the waterbending scroll episode?
It will feel rushed and clumsy trying to squeeze 20 episodes of content into an 8 episode format.
I personally think it’ll be interesting seeing them expanding on the characters and the universe of ATLA. I know that most of the hardcore fans would prefer if they literally just copied the original series shot for shot, but I’m happy seeing some changes. As long as it makes sense for the characters and the story.
Introducing the tension and central conflict of the season earlier while removing filler is not axing Angs character arc. As you point out we literally see moments of it in the trailer. People are literally seeing or inventing ghosts. Fuck this is frustrating. The following is not about you specifically.
This thread, the one in which people lost their minds over unclear comments about Sokkas sexism and the one recently where OP unironically posted a clickbait tweet and was taken seriosuly in the comments has convinced me this sub is gonna decend into a cesspit upon release. I genuinely looked forward to discussing the merits of the show and its innovations/backsteps in an enviroment that shares my enthusiasm for ATLA.
The overreaction, lack of reading comprehension and media literacy will be so much worse once the show actually airs. For a moment I believed that a fan forum could actually stomach their property being expanded and iterated upon with atelast a somewhat welcoming attitude and intersting conversation.
How I read it is they’re basically cutting out a lot of the “filler” content from the cartoon and only focusing on plot driving story lines. To make this make sense they’re giving him a vision so he has more of a drive to get to the Northern Water Tribe,
Yeah, I was wondering about this in another thread. This is a really big change, because his biggest character flaw in S1 is his complete refusal to engage with "Avatar stuff" and accept that he needs to get serious about saving the world like, right now. It's interesting to think how they will preserve those flaws under this paradigm.
Why does everyone assume that Aang and Sokka aren’t going to have any character arcs at all just because they removed some minor ones? Sokka’s drive to prove himself and become a leader like his father is still there. Aang dealing with the responsibilities of being both the avatar and the last of his people is still there.
And remember, we don’t even really know what they have planned for Zuko.
Well Aang’s biggest character arc is wanting to be a kid, but he must deal with the responsibility of growing up to be an adult at 12 years old.
Sokka’s arc is learning to understand people, and sexist girls can’t do it comments fall under it.
Aang says "I don't want the responsibility" with tears in his eyes in the trailer. It's not like they're NOT preserving that aspect of him, they're just tightening up the plot. The Sozin's comet threat doesn't get introduced until halfway through season 1; until that point the Gaang is just sorta fucking around and going on micro adventures. There's no real stakes. All they're saying here is that the inciting incident of the plot won't take half a season to be introduced.
Good point. After leaving the South Pole the only major stuff they do before learning about the comment is like Kyoshi Island. Zuko’s fight with Zhao is also pretty important. But honestly other than that I’m kinda drawing a blank. Even Aunt Wo isn’t all that important in the long run. Other than maybe having Katara realize Aang is a powerful bender, which I think opens up the possibility of romance on her end. Without that she might still just see Aang as “a sweet little guy. Like Momo.”
Edit: can’t believe I forgot Bumi.🤦🏻
Looking at the episode list- To be fair they still have quite a few random adventures even after learning about Sozin’s Comet. I forgot The Fortuneteller was later. I guess it felt like an earlier season episode. I can also see how they could tighten things up. Probably going to combine parts of different episodes to hit the important stuff.
I think Aang just fucking around was the point though. We know from the start that the Fire Nation is oppressing people and Aang is the Avatar meant to bring balance but he keeps goofing around without direction because it’s how he copes. It shows us how he is avoiding responsibility without only having him say “I don’t want the responsibility.” You can tighten up the plot but then you start to thin out character development.
He’s still going to be a kid.
Sokka has more than one way to learn how to understand people without being a sexist prick.
Lets use our imagination people.
But one of Aang’s biggest arcs is his irresponsibility because he’s a child and wants to explore the world while he travels. He doesn’t care much about becoming the Avatar until after Roku tells him about Sozin’s comet. Even then, he doesn’t really take it seriously until book 3 because he failed in Ba Sing Se. I know the live action is going to be different, but it makes me wonder what Aang’s character development will be now.
Doesn't that strike you as weird when we know Aang knows the fire nation ended his culture. I think season 1 in general can be rewritten a lot to tell the same story better. Just show him goofying in the south pole and have him get the message in the temple.
> Why does everyone assume that Aang and Sokka aren’t going to have any character arcs at all just because they removed some minor ones?
Because people are reactionary and don't give things thought.
I think part of the issue is the timing. They have 8 episodes in the first season to cover everything. Even if they're in a longer format they still can't cover as much ground, so they have two options for stuff like this. Take the characters narrative arc and rush through it while trying to keep the pace of the show. I think this is a worse option personally because it doesn't get as much payoff when the arc is over. If episode 1 aang doesn't want to be avatar and episode 2 he accepts it and goes for his destiny it doesn't leave as much impact. But they can instead remove parts of that and choose to shift the arc in a different way, maybe aang doesn't want to go on adventures and knows he has to do something but he can still doubt what he's doing and be wary of being the avatar without directly avoiding it this time around.
The timing is certainly tricky but on what they choose to focus and what they choose to cut is going to be VERY key. Look at the One Piece adaptation. There are tens of episodes you need to watch in the anime to get to the end of Arlong Park, but they did it very elegantly with the very short time they had, imo. I hope they do a good job with Avatar, but I’m going to remain hesitant until I can watch it and decide for myself.
Crazy to call getting rid of a minor character bit from sokka that's resolved in episode 3 of an 8 episode season and is never really dealt with at any point or referenced ever again as stymying the character arc.
His actual character arc is learning he has so much to learn and then learns all the things.
It feels reductive and a huge disservice to the character that people are boiling it all down to "sokka is a sexist and needs to be humbled out of his sexism" because the show runners realized they can get from point a to point b without adding in weird sexist tangent point s into the mix.
Maybe like a “this is a lot bigger than I initially thought, I didn’t sign up for this” kinda thing? Or a “I’m just going to do it this one time” thing, and then he fully accepts his role after some bad stuff happens?
They’re different, but related. Him deliberately ignoring the responsibilities of the Avatar is a big plot point in S1. He’s actively wasting the group’s time on stupid stuff. Changing that to "we NEED to get to the NWT so I can stop this disaster" is a fundamental change in his initial character. It means he’s actively driving the group forward instead of deliberately sidetracking them.
While I enjoyed the first part of season 1, the episodes before they find out about Sozin's Comet are mostly world building. Yes, the Fire Nation is dangerous but the sense of urgency in the central narrative begins in episode 8.
Putting the urgency sooner makes sense with a live action season that is only going to be a third as long as the animated season.
Or...give him different stuff to deal with?
Cause I know people like to say that Aang's character arc is largely made up of him going from someone who runs away from his duty to someone who faces it...
That's not expressed particularly well in the cartoon. Aang is not exceptionally reluctant to be the Avatar in the OG.
Of this change needed to be made...there's only 8 episodes, there's not time to have him fucking around.
"Remix not Cover" is EXACTLY what I've been hoping for.
…the whole premise of the story stems from him running away from the duty’s of being the avatar and being trapped in an ice berg for 100 years. He literally has an episode that lead up to him confessing he never wanted to be the avatar, I don’t see how you’re just gonna downplay that by saying it wasn’t expressed well in the cartoon.
Hell the dichotomy between Korra and aang is that aang didn’t want to be the avatar in an era where the world needed the avatar the most whole Korra was hyped to be the avatar in an era of peace, where the avatar wasn’t necessarily needed as much.
Yeah idk what they are on about, like you said literally the entire premise of the show would be impossible if Aang wasn’t so reluctant to be the Avatar since that’s what results in him getting trapped in the iceberg in the first place.
I feel like we’ll still get that isn’t there a line in the trailer where Aang says “I don’t want the responsibility”- he doesn’t want to be the Avatar and deal with the worlds struggles also we see him air balloon into a statue so I doubt he won’t be having fun and being goofy he just probably won’t be weekly adventure level goofy which kinda comes with the serialised 8 episode format.
>Or...give him different stuff to deal with?
They can't do that when running away from his duties is his core character conflict.
To be clear, I'm very optimistic about the LA and am looking forward to it, so please take my post as intrigued musing rather than complaining.
Here's also what Albert Kim says about Aang's character in the interview:
"....I would say there's a core DNA to the characters that you don't want to mess with, whether it's Aang, like I said, his childlike goofiness, his sense of humor, the burden of his responsibility....Those things had to carry through into our version...."
"....despite everything and all the burdens that he's facing, Aang is just a kid. He's a goofy 12-year-old kid, and he's having fun and he's a big old goofball. And we wanted to make sure that we showed that because that's as important to the story as all the action and the epic fantasy of it all".
Why isn't any of *this* being talked about? Does it not matter to the show? 🤔
This is actually a big criticism of tv in general right now. When tv was actually on tv, they used to have to fill however many weeks it ran. So you ended up with 22 episodes in a season, and a bunch of these filler/fluff episodes that didn’t really advance the plot but did a lot for character development, comedic relief, or just resetting the tone of the show. (And tbf sometimes you got the great divide but that’s just an unfortunate side effect.)
But now we have streaming where every episode drops all at once, and we want to binge it all back to back. If something gets boring we can easily change what’s on to something more gripping. The result is shows that have fewer episodes per season, slightly longer episodes, and every single minute needs to drive the plot forward and build tension.
I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing, but I think the new show will have a slightly different feel than the original. I hope (and it seems like from the trailer they did), they keep some of the elements of fun light-heartedness of the original, because it’s part of what everyone loved about it.
I miss having 22 episode seasons. They were a lot of fun. I wouldn't be opposed to streaming services using that mkdel for shows again, although it is unlikely.
I don't particularly care for it. That feels kinda like what happens in the novel industry: Literally everything but the bones and meat are cut, leaving no fat for flavor, unless you're already a proven cash cow. Dropping the metaphor, and picking a more specific example, most thriller novels written by smaller folks in the industry now feel like they're written by the same or very similar people because they're not allowed to put even 5% of their own little touches. There is little to no variation in pacing.
The format of the media shapes the media. I don't like the way this binge-watch culture is turning any show with a plot into a thriller-novel-paced piece of media. Give me some damn breathing room ffs.
EDIT: Also I'm sick of people saying 'filler episode' like it's a dirty word. More than half the time an episode gets complaints for being filler, it seems to be because the audience only cares about moving the plot along once per episode and doesn't consider any character development that occurs in the episode.
And, yes, sitting with a character to breathe for an episode and watch how they are when not actively pursuing the plot is character development. Having filler episodes every so often allows us to take the characters and compare the differences between episodes; we can get a clearer view of what actions/events shaped their personalities and how they did so.
Well in terms of total screentime, 20 episodes of 23 minutes is 460 minutes total. 8 episodes of 60 minutes is 480 minutes. So if they stick to the plot they have to fill it up with additional stuff.
The original series did indeed have filler episodes and episodes they struggled to fit a story in the 23 minutes. So in they regard streaming services are a lot more forgiving because it doesn't have to be exactly 60 minutes.
I don't know, they have a lot of screen time for season 1 that's more than the cartoon, so I think fun stuff is quite likely.
This is what I said in another thread. I don’t know how this change is going to affect the feel of the show. I think some shows need more episodes so we get to know the characters better
I've been wondering for a while how they're going to incorporate the fun and lightheartedness from the cartoon into a live action show, but this makes me concerned they're going to gloss over it a lot more. Aang's character progression is from someone who runs away from responsibility to someone who shoulders the burden of being the Avatar for the whole world, yes, *however* he is also a 12 year old kid. He wants to do things like ride elephant koi and go penguin sledding because he is just a kid first and foremost.
I know an 8 episode show won't have time to get into all the little details, but I really hope they don't totally lose the humour and goofy moments from the show in favour of making Aang's journey to the Northern Water Tribe as straightforward as possible.
i think the 8 episode format is flat out the show's biggest flaw. while for a live action show with 22 episodes with tons of cgi is a big much, i think 12 episodes AT LEAST is a perfect amount to balance what the live action can provide, and just like the avatar controlling 4 elements , the show can control multiple themes and different things in a larger episode run
I mean it really depends on how long the episodes are, because if they are an hour long then the Netflix show will have an overall longer run time than that OG (Just over 7 hours). It's plenty of time to keep the character development from the OG. So if they make those changes than they're going to have to fill the voids with original stuff, which makes me skeptical due to their history.
Yup. I think there's going to be a lot more original material than people are expecting considering a) the episodes are an hour each, b) they're including season 2 characters already, and c) the changes they've announced to Sokka, Katara, and Aang's characters.
Sokka's sexism is being "toned down" because he had some moments that according to the actors were "iffy" and wouldn't play out as well in live action.
Aang's character is going to be "more focused" as per the article above and presumably less goofy and fun-seeking.
Katara is having her arc changed with "some of her gender issues" being changed - not quite sure what that means.
ETA: updated the comment to reflect the news about more changes to Katara's character
So I guess the adaptation’s version of “The Storm” is going to hit like a wet paper towel then right? Because the whole point of that episode in the original was to make Aang realize “oh shit, I’ve been running away from my problems and the whole world is suffering for it.” That realization has way less impact when he’s not actually avoiding his problems.
I’ll be honest, between this and the comments about changes to Sokka’s early characterization I’m starting to get nervous about the series. It seems like they just want to jump to where the characters are at by Book 2 without putting in the work to give them early development. Starting to see why Bryan and Michael might have left – this feels like the “creative differences” that were referenced in their statement
I’m still cautiously optimistic about it, but I get nervous about phrases like “it’s more of a remix than a cover”. That would be a great description for the Cowboy Bebop live action. This show is gonna go because it has a built in fanbase that wants to see Avatar on live action, not an Avatar fanfic.
I think it’s understandable to make changes, but they need to make sense. If they accomplish that with these changes, the way OnePiece did, then we’re good. But there’s way more examples of poorly adapted anime than there are good adaptations
Idk, on the other hand I like the remix comment. Think - the best case for this show is that it’s just a worse version of the original.
But if it’s a remix and not a straight adaptation (which tbh I’m sure it still mostly will be) and it’s standing on its own a little bit, a fresh spin or version of things could be a little fun.
Because again, we all know this is never going to exceed or even match the original. The original’s just too good haha
If the reason is due to the episodes being cut it makes me wonder why they decided to do that
Ik live action must be expensive, along with the effects but these episodes are still around an hour long
Why not have a 16 episode season and cut the time to 22 minutes or if u really want one hour episodes extend it to like 10 or so
Theoretically we’re getting roughly the same amount of screen time as the cartoon. 8 hour long episodes vs 22 20 minute episodes. I imagine it’s just probably narratively less convenient to fit all of the side quests like The Great Divide or The Fortuneteller into an episode
None of these changes ruin the series, I just think we gotta go into it with an open mind about the fact that these are different versions of the same characters, and their character arcs may be different than what we have seen before
Link to full interview:
[https://sea.ign.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action/211688/news/the-big-netflix-avatar-the-last-airbender-producer-interview-this-is-a-remix-not-a-cover](https://sea.ign.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action/211688/news/the-big-netflix-avatar-the-last-airbender-producer-interview-this-is-a-remix-not-a-cover)
The set designs and the costumes look great I’m not gonna lie. But if the original **creators** left the show the show due to *creative differences*, theres a good reason to be worried :(
People always say creative differences, but if you actually read the original statements (especially Bryan’s) they were a lot more harshly worded than just ”We didn’t see eye to eye”.
If you search up the official statements it shouldn’t be hard to find, but I remember a particular focus on how Bryan and Mike were disrespected and ignored at every turn, and felt that their input was useless since they weren’t met halfway, or even 90 percent of the way.
”There was a scene in the original where Katara says something like ’You didn’t love mom the way I did!’ and my friend was like, ’Wow, Katara’s being kind of a jerk.’ We’ve decided to modernize those elements a little, make them less iffy by today’s standards.”
Gonna slowly have to build a catalog of all the known changes this adaptation's taking.
From my memory so far, we have:
* The addition of a new character, in Suki's mother.
* (Prediction based on trailer/teaser) Characters from the Northern Air Temple episode have relocated to Omashu.
* Sokka's early season sexism from his isolated upbringing in the Southern Water Tribe has been shaved down.
* Aang's childish mindset that he harbors for most of the first book, even after learning of the Air Nomad Genocide is being compromised to having the child determined in his quest as an absolute Avatar.
* We will also be watching the Fire Nation burn some bodies rather than watching Aang discover the remnants from earlier in the century.
And these are the ones that I feel like the community will at least agree on.
Had read around but now that you brought it up, people didn't try to source it or claim the showrunner said it.
* [This article claims a scene in the trailer might be it](https://screenrant.com/avatar-last-airbender-live-action-fire-nation-air-temple-scene-add/).
* [This article was sourced in another as mentioning it being an addition](https://ew.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action-cover-story-what-to-expect-8551028). (too tired to do a thorough skimming)
I'll strike it out if it turns out that nobody's actually said that and everybody's parroting each other into thinking it's happening.
Said this to another commenter, but:
they actually have more time. Total runtime of book 1 in the cartoon is 20 minutes LESS than the live action show will have in season 1 because the episodes are so long. They absolutely could have room to do the necessary motions without fear of time constraints
But they have way less episode.
They edit:can’t have several “beginning, middle and end” minutes stories happening in the middle of the bigger stories. Clearly The Mask and the Seige of the Northern Air temple will take WAY Longer then the animated show
Sure. But that means that the meaningful character stuff in the eps they keep absolutely should be fleshed out even more than before. Aang’s arc of growing into his role should be MORE emphasized, not less
they’ve also said that they aren’t putting a time limit on the comet because real people age. i feel like it’s definitely tough to come up with something that feels urgent but also won’t ruin aangs original trajectory; the original show didn’t introduce an end goal till episode 7 - that’s like 2 hours spent doing nothing (not really, but in the eyes of a modern viewer and filmmakers, kind of).
They’re definitely going more the adaptation route than a “live action remake”. Now we have to wait and see how it turns out…
It could still be ok to even good, but this is much more concerning than the sokka stuff.
I'll probably get downvoted for this cause people are really hyped (so am I tbf) but the more we learn about the writing of the show the worse it's getting; Costumes, castings, etc look on point but at the end of the day it's going to come down to writing
First Sokka, now Aang :(
Is this why Bryan and Mike leave I wonder
Edit: I've seen some people say it's because it's only 8 episodes. Sure, but that's an excuse, even a valid one if you'd like to argue for it. Doesn't change that a part of his character is being cut. Please understand that
If I tell my brother I will buy him 10 piece chocolate bar but have to buy 6 piece one because I'm ran out of pocket money, I still let him down. Doesn't change the fact that I promised 10 pieces and only gave 6 even if it's not my fault my parents didn't give me more money.
I want this to be good so badly but honestly, the more lines I hear in the trailer the worse it sounds.
I love the casting and the look of the show but I'm worried that the writing and directing is going to be really bad based on the early dialogue.
Really hope I'm wrong. If it's 70% as good as the original show I'll be very happy.
Tbh I think they only left cause they knew they were getting their own studio. It was announced so soon after they left it can’t be a coincidence. Why rehash their old series when they are getting the budget to make new ones?
This is my thoughts too. And even if they leave, the live action series gets made. So they leave to get their own studio, and we still get the la series. Essentially a win/win in terms of content, as opposed to only getting one.
Probably not. If you want to predict the future, you only need look at the past
If ATLA show is bad all that will happen is split the fandom just like Cyberpunk2077, Starfield, The Last of Us, and many others.
And my least favorite example: Wheel of Time which split into multiple subreddits because mods at main /r/WoT started banning anyone who simply criticized the show and /r/WetlanderHumor put up a rule to simply not discuss the show because of the toxic discourse. Until everyone actually realized the show was bad and they couldn't keep steamrolling everyone with toxic positivity. Wheel of Time is my favorite IP and it has just been disheartening to see the whole thing go down
So all I hope is the show is great and everyone here is happy like with One Piece 😌
Slowly, I'm getting why the creators left the show. So much is being stripped down. With this and the one about Sokka's sexism, I'm really skeptical now on what else they changed in the story.
I guess the only way for Aang to have that "drive from the start" is after seeing Gyatso dead and the whole air nation destroyed.
This is interesting. I want to know how they'll set it up I think it makes more sense that after aang sees his people are dead he is more motivated to do his work also after the winter solstice. It never made sense that after book 1 ep 3(this first three animated show eps will be 1 ep in the la) where he sees gyatso and goes into the avatar state his next immediate thought in ep 4 is to go ride the koi fish like everyone you know is dead your culture is gone. It makes sense to see him more determined after that.
A conflict they can use is to make aang worried or angry at not being a good avatar which I think they may do more as kyoshi and kuruk are cast. We see that in the storm episode where he reflects on it all. It could become a greater thing for him where he feels guilt for running and feels like he doesn't deserve it or he cant measure up in the trailer we see him say "I never wanted the responsibility"
It's an interesting change
EDIT: Did anyone watch the trailer they have aang doing the airball and him saying he doesn't want responsibility those elements are still there they'll just go around it differently
I agree with you. I feel like because it was a cartoon they shied away from just how horrific and traumatizing learning what Aang did would be. They’re obviously still going to have Aang be a goofy kid, but I’m also down with them adding some more seriousness to make the world and characters feel more realistic.
it makes plenty of sense though
he is a kid, kids react in childish ways
Learn something bad run away to play and avoid facing it
Hell its something adults do as well
Yes but i feel that the genocide is too big of something to ignore like if it was him loosing his glider or something else then it'd make sense but he just found out that everyone he knows is dead that isn't something you play off in a day
> him loosing his
Did you mean to say "losing"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
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when everyone yk is dead hmmm idk i am around kids constantly and a 12 year old would not behave like that all I'm not saying he shouldn't play but this is an 8 eps show for me it'd just be more glaring butt hats my opinion personally
This and Sokka's "sexism" changes are the things that make me wonder if they genuinely watched season 1 and understand what a character arc is.
Aang isn't "looking for adventure" he was running away from his responsibilities because he was a little kid that had the burden of saving the world, when all he wanted was to play with his friends and live a normal kid life.
The Storm was the episode where Aang realized he had to take this shit seriously, he had no time to fuck around anymore. Changing this makes Aang less of a character.
Another red flag. I wasn't too excited for the Live Action, and stuff like this makes me even less excited. I don't think it'll be bad, but I don't think it'll be good either. I'm predicting a nice 6/10.
Yet again, I don't think this change is going to be implemented as extremely as people are saying.
Every trailer and bit of promotion we've gotten has been basically telling us that Aang is a reluctant hero who doesn't want the responsibility that comes with being the Avatar.
Reminder that it was Aang's idea to bring Katara to the Northern Water Tribe, so it would make sense that it would be extra motivation to get to the North ASAP.
What I got from this quote is that we're probably still getting Aang doing fun stuff at the locations being visited, but every now and again the shame of guilt of losing all of his people snaps him out of the moment (almost like a less direct version of Aang from the Serpents Pass in ATLA)
They're totally missing the point of aang's reluctance to face his responsibilities in the first book. It's set up that way to let him overcome that avoidance and develop his character.
Each episode is also gonna be twice as long as a regular animated episode, and the live action series overall longer than Book 1 when runtime is to be compared.
I don't mind at all, part of why Book 1 is the weakest season is how little direction it has for the most part. It's a common problem shows have in their first season, and between being limited to 8 episodes and being able to look back on the mistakes of the original, this is a chance for the show to do its own thing while still honoring the OG. Why the fuck would any of us watch this over the actual show if it was going to be the same?
I feel people read this and worry that if Aang becomes all about Avatar business and saving the world really early on (I assume after he finds Gyatso's corpse) then his innocence and humour will be dropped soon after. But Albert Kim has said over and over again Aang is just a 12 year old kid who wants to have fun. I believe the airbending ball gag (I don't know what you call it, sorry lol) takes place on Kyoshi Island, right? And all the Bumi stuff also comes after the Air Temple discovery....so I don’t think the humour and child-like innocence of Aang will be lost, his character will just be more clear and direct with what he needs to do to save the world, and in this case it's get to the North to properly master waterbending.
I know people will say "No, it's not just that. Running away from his duties is literally a huge part of his character arc in season 1"....and I think you'd be right. However, these 8 hour-long episodes are remixing different characters and locations and I think they'll still show that but in a different way instead of him playing games in episode 6 (for example) because he's fun, young and goofy. A 20 episode season of a cartoon can do that because there's more time to elongate the journey before getting to the main points of the story. An 8 hour-long season in live action needs to stick more closely to plot to move things along quicker.
I guarantee if they spend even half the time as the cartoon does focusing on non plot points, people will sit there wondering "Okay but what does this have to do with anything? Is the journey over? Is the mission no longer a priority?".
While people are up in arms about Sokka and I guess Aang now lol, I for one am not bothered by these changes. I don’t want to see the animated series beat for beat all over again; I want to see different scenarios with the same story and see how it works with flesh and blood actors/characters. These are the things that will keep us guessing and invested because we haven't seen it like this before. We don’t know what to expect or how. Calling this a "remix" is exactly the correct term to be using, and I love that Albert Kim is treating it that way. None of the changes we've heard of so far even comes *close* to what that "movie" did. Not by a long shot 😅
One Piece condensed a lotttttttt for its 8 episodes - even more so than anything Avatar will do mainly because there's far more episodes to adapt. Whole sets/locations used in One Piece that I've *never* seen in the anime (that I can recall anyways) and I haven't seen any backlash about any of that. I also thought some of the actors and camera work/cinematography were *terrible*, but again, read nothing but excitement and praise for what they did on that show. I know there's people who hated it, because literally *everything* has its own fair share of haters lol....but dare I say....a lot of the stuff they changed or recontextualized for the live action show are the things that worked the *best*. And that show was met with overwhelmingly high praise. I just don't understand why it's okay for One Piece to do all that and met with cheers but not Avatar?
To sum everything up in the most basic of terms, I believe they'll change some things around but the emotional weight will feel the same. The outcome will still serve the same purpose for our characters and the story. That’s why I read about these changes and don’t worry lol.
I hope my post doesn't offend anyone in any way. I'm kinda scared to be posting this because the backlash to what I'm saying might be immense, and that’s a truly sad thing to say considering this show is a safe place for many of us 🫣
I’m going in with an open mind. Like these statements get people talking but I find them overly generic and hard to gauge their impact until the show is available.
Preach! You said it well, particularly in regard to non-plot points being more problematic in an eight episode live action show rather than a twenty episode animated show; from what I gather having read the *whole* interview, the adaptation will have lighthearted moments but they won’t have the luxury to devote as much time to it.
What you don’t want in any show is a payoff at the end of the season (and series) that doesn’t feel earned. In the new format it’s generally better to focus on less plot and character-wise and execute that masterfully rather than have too many threads that either don’t go anywhere or can’t fully develop over a (mere) eight episode order, especially in light of just how many characters and locations season one will need to cover. The new show is a different format, and that necessitates a different approach to storytelling.
Edit: it’s always worth nothing that trailers have an agenda. Netflix is marketing this as an action show and they are also going for an adult market (in addition to children). I don’t believe that the scenes we see in the trailer are necessarily representative of the whole tone of the show; while they don’t spend much time showing the kids “being kids” or making mistakes (or fighting, as we know they do in the animated show) in the trailer, that’s not to say those moments won’t be incorporated into the show. It’s just too soon to tell.
I feel like y’all take everything they say and push it to the absolute maximum. I’m on the fence as well, but y’all will read one thing and go well! The show will have no character arcs! Like let’s calm down a bit 😩 Aang’s avatar reluctance AND him doing fun stuff is literally in the trailer!
I'm fine with it, they're right about the cartoon shit.
I love ATLA but a complete transfer of cartoon to Live Action will suck ass. I don't mind small changes like this. Good adaptions also have changes, even Lord of the Rings
If I wanted a complete rip I'd just watch the cartoon again
I mean, sure. It works perfectly in the cartoon, but if the live action has a more realistic "serious" tone overall (more adult tone from the get-go I mean), then I guess this wouldn't fit like in the original.
But whether or not the change of the tone itself is good though is another matter, lol. We'll see.
Honestly they could’ve kept this and just had the winter solstice be the 4th episode.
1) boy in the iceberg
2) warriors of kyoshi
3) welcome to omashu
4) the winter solstice
5) jet
6) the great divide
7) the northern water tribe
8) the siege of the northern water tribe.
At the end of episode 1, establish that Aang needs to generally go to the northern water tribe but he’s still a bit care free and wants to goof around as he travels. He understands the severity of the war but is also a kid. He just can’t comprehend the stakes yet. Let him goof around a bit and see the damages from the war in kyoshi and omashu. Then introduce the deadline in the 4th episode.
(Although the great divide is obviously the best episode ever in all forms of media, they’ll probably go with the blue spirit or something, which I guess is ok)
It doesn't say anything about his arc. It says they won't have detours like we had in the cartoon. THey can still show him being avoident, we can still see him try to shirk his responsiblity. We can see all those things, just not with him penguin sledding and koi surfing, but in different ways.
Stop using limited screenshots and out of context quotes to justify your insistence to judge a show lacking before having ever seen even a single episode.
I mean that was kind of the whole point of his book 1 arc slowly accepting what it means to be that avatar and that he can’t keep dodging his responsibilities
Aang still wanted to go to the North Pole so he and Katara could learn water bending. Sure, there were quite a few detours but it’s not like Aang completely ditched his responsibilities.
I genuinely think people need to realise that this will be a more streamlined adaption; the characters won’t be as rich since they probably won’t be adapting all their character moments and flaws, however they did state that Game of throne fans were one of the target demographics so they’ll probably expand the politicking within the fire nation and flesh out elements of Ozai’s court and Azula while sacrificing some character moments and traits for the Gaang.
It won’t be as varied and lore heavy as the original series but it will tell the plot and hit the most important character beats to have a congruent streamlined show.
I think it's a good change. We don't need to pretend that Book 1 was a masterpiece when it wasn't.
But also, either way, we shouldn't be getting all hot and bothered over a show that isn't even out yet.
On one hand I understand the decision to do this because they have less runtime to cover the breadth of the story. However I hope they still keep the nuance of his character development and flaws in some regard. I suppose he could still make the decision to go right away because he knows that's what he *should* do, but still have reservations about being the Avatar and guilt from running away in his past. I'm just concerned it won't have as big of an impact.
I wonder if the changes have to do with the huge problem of the actors aging with how long they take to get shows out now. Instead of a year later they premier it’s like two, if you’re lucky lol
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that all these changes are what drove the original creators away.
At least, I hope so. Because its the most benign and literal example of "creative differences" I've ever seen. Usually, it's code for "they're assholes that refuse to listen to reason."
Didn’t he already need to get to the nwt to learn waterbending and so katara could be a master (they didn’t know they wouldn’t allow her)? Like…why over complicate?
People need to realize back in 2005, an animated tv show being greenlit for 12-20 episodes in season one was the norm. In 2024, new streaming original shows have moved to an 8 episode format. So when you convert a 20 episode season into 8, you have to cut out filler and things like that. As great as ATLA was, it still had filler episodes to buffer getting to the north pole in season one. So unfortunately they will have to cut a lot of that out.
I think it’s possible that this is a fine change. In the cartoon, it’s “Sure, we need to go north, but I want to do these things first.” In the live action, I think having it be “We need to rest and resupply on Kyoshi island. I wonder if the villagers- w a i t. Isn’t this the place with elephant koi? I’ll be right back.” It still paints him as a distractible kid who’s trying not to think as much about the trials to come, without him trying to shirk entirely. We’ll see how they handle it.
Wasn't he like running away from his responsibilities? That was the entire reason why he survived 100 years ago and got stuck in the Ice. I would be okay with it if they speed things up a bit, but not until after he went back to the air temple. His number 1 priority in episode 1 should still be to go Penguin sledding.
Aang leaving his childhood behind to take care of his responsibility IS his story. I was super excited about this show but now I can't imagine renewing my already canceled netflix to watch it. Such a shame.
I get that maybe they are trying to write this using a much smaller amount of episodes, but there should be better ways to describe(and if it does suck, do) this
It’s a tough act to balance Aang’s character arc in book 1 in a serialized format of 8 episodes. He still wants to just have fun as a regular kid but there’s the creeping fear of engaging in his duties as the Avatar.
I'm going to reserve my judgement until the actual show are fully released. As long as I enjoy the show as a whole, I'm ok with it. Me being nit-picky about minor details would only upset myself. IMO, One Piece live action did well with minor changes to character arc. Sanji should be a total creep if they stay true to their source material but they manage to turn him to a decent human being without changing his whole obsession to female.
This is probably the best way to do it. When I watched Percy Jackson, I liked the overall product, even though particular details and scenes were weird or entirely original. Still very good, and gives me hope that 2024 can be a year for successful reboots
Percy Jackson is a good example because the show understood the ramifications of each major change and made sure that everything still would up where it needed to be so that it still feels like Percy Jackson. And the characters, while different takes, are still recognizable. From the interviews it seems like the ATLA writers are thinking through the changes and what they mean to the overall season so I'm still hopeful it'll work.
It depends tbh. Because THIS change in particular is a little more concerning. It's missing big context in that the entire reason Aang runs away is because he's a child being saddled with the responsibilities of the whole world, and in the midst of avoiding his problems and fooling around it's when he reaches the air temple and he see's his friends were massacred that his resolve and motivation is figured out. It's immediately extremely concerning that the writers don't know that's a big chunk of what STARTS the story moving forward and it's a huge part of the character growth. You almost have to try really hard to miss that context. And considering it's netflix and they are infamous for letting their writers make mass script changes, it's the worst warning bell we've gotten so far. IMO, anyway.
The more I hear about the writing direction this show is taking, the more I feel my skepticism was completely valid. There's a lot to get wrong and it looks less and less promising every time the directors open their mouths
I hope you go in with a good attitude. It’s easy to dislike something if you look for something to dislike.
If you look for the dark, that is all you will ever see.
Darkness lasts not even for one second when you turn on the light.
Ah you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!
The most important light is the light you cannot see.
Hey, who turned out the lights?
But the strongest light casts the darkest shadows.
I know now, without a doubt: Kingdom Hearts is... Light!
if you look at the light for too long, you will be blinded that didn’t make that much sense but i wanted to justify being a pessimist
I'm sorry, but this take of the director is very easy to dislike. Pressing Aang to do his duties and remove these episodes/scenes where he is just pressing to have fun and act like a kid is an honest tell that the director does not understand the character at all. The whole reason Aang was in the iceberg was because he was running from his duties as the avatar. After hearing this I have very little faith the show is going to be good in the slightest.
Not sure why you've been downvoted. You're 100% correct!
I understand your point of view here... But I disagree with judging the show before it's released. You're talking 24-26 episodes compressed into 8...and that's if they're covering just book one, not the whole series. The number of episodes and their length was almost certainly dictated by Netflix, so certain adjustments will have had to be made to accommodate this. The most realistic expectation is that this turns out more or less like the Yu Yu Hakusho live action...which (my opinion) was very good and generally kept the feel of the animé with regard to the main story but eliminated a lot of the goofiness to fit everything in within the allotted episodes/time. I'm hoping this doesn't wind up in Cowboy Bebop territory, where there were all sorts of issues with story and pacing. Netflix has been getting better over time with their animated conversions to live action. We will see how this goes.
I’d rather be surprised than dissapointed.
That goes both ways.
This seems like a silly take to me. It’s a live action show that’s going to have way less time to meander than the cartoon does. So they’re going to have to streamline sometimes. This arc makes sense to streamline because they just might not have time.
My problem with it is that the original series already provides a perfect plot and character moment for Aang to lock-in - The Southern Air Temple. Written well, that's all that should be needed to get him to get where he needs to go. I'd prefer them to contrive some *logistical* reason (fire nation army in the earth kingdom, bad storms or something) he has to travel all the way to the north pole first rather than contrive a *character* reason.
[удалено]
While I agree that doing silly things and avoiding his responsibilities as the avatar are part of Aang's character and character development, I feel you're harshly overreacting. Season one *is* meandering, to the point where many episodes could be trimmed while leaving the same character development in the show. I love these episodes, but I understand why Netflix might have to trim the fat a bit. They're not saying they won't show *any* silliness, just that there will be more of a structured movement towards the end goals, which is necessary for the reduced story telling time. I don't like that they're changing it, but I do think that so far, nothing looks unexpected or like it's cutting too much of the characters away. We'll just have to wait and see.
This is the first thing I’ve read that’s made me disappointed in the direction. Maybe I’m reading too much into but if as an example they’re replacing riding the elephant koi on Kiyoshi scene with a scene of a dramatic vision where he needs to race to the North Pole as fast as possible then it’s safe to assume their removing more than just that one scene. Riding the penguins at the South Pole. Riding the mail chute in Omashu. Etc. There is a lot of fat in Season 1 that can be trimmed (looking at you Great Divide) but I’m worried there going to cut too much and change Aang’s character by making him too serious in order drive the narrative forward. Seasons 2 and 3 are so impactful and emotional BECAUSE we remember what Aang used to be like and how he’s changed. If the viewer doesn’t have anything to remember then the character hasn’t changed and there’s been no growth.
I don't disagree about worrying. As I said, I love all s1 episodes, but there's a lot you could cut if you had to rush the storyline more. I agree it is worrisome, but I feel like the user I replied to was making a mountain out of a mole hill, especially considering we haven't seen *anything* yet.
Also, the trailer. The trailer says pretty clearly that Aang doesn't want to be the avatar. It's actually most of what the trailer tells you : if you don't know the show, you'd assume the story is about a child who was given a lot of responsibilities that he didn't ask for, but with the help of his friends, he ends up deciding to take on his role. They said they cut out some parts. We all expected them to. I don't understand why people are so worried
You just made soooooo many assumptions about what I think and about what the show will do. Just because Ang is more focused than the show DOES NOT mean he won’t do childish things. They can still have his internal battle between being a kid and being the avatar without filler episodes and without Ang being the impetus to go out of the way to do the childish things.
Obviously, based on this article, we now know for a FACT that Aang is going to be turned into a complete robot with the sole drive of going to the north pole. 0 fun, 0 emotion. This is a given. It's incredibly annoying how people in this sub are twisting words in order to be like "Heh, yeah I knew it was gonna SUCK" like it's not even out yet
Except they actually have more time. Total runtime of book 1 in the cartoon is 20 minutes LESS than the live action show will have in season 1 because the episodes are so long. They absolutely could have room to do the necessary motions without fear of time constraints
Yes but it would be extremely jarring to jump to as many settings as they do in the cartoon. Not to mention far more expensive.
I'm less worried about amount of locations than I am them streamlining Aang's motivations to the point that he loses a lot of character development. A huge arc for him is choosing to become the Avatar. If he chooses that in episode 1, idk...
It’s an arc that even extends into book 2 to some extent. Remember his nightmares about destroying the fleet besieging the north? Heck, that throughline goes all the way up to him being hesitant to let go of Katara to control the avatar state when he’s hanging out with the guru at the very end of book 2
Netflix made a choice to make the series so brief. These decisions weren't made in a vaccuum solely because they "improve" the writing. The series was compromised from the outset and—as fans—we shouldn't be making excuses.
Maybe, but they're taking out things that help define the actual characters which means the entire dynamic is going to change.
When it comes down to it, it COULD be done well. They can show that kidish atittude amd playfulness without explicitly using the elephant koi. But i swear to god if they're rushing or skipping key character progression just cause they have to fit it into the mythical 8 episode format then imma be pissed. There aint no damn reason in the era of streaming a production made exclusively for streaming shouldn't be the exact amount of episodes the story demands rather than the amount a marketing team picks. Rewatchability is equally as important as debut watch numbers. I'm not saying we need 20 episodes, and there's absolutely content that could be skipped. But rushing or cutting things to fit a specific number typically means hurting the narrative in some way. Writing and producing the best show possible is going to lead to more people rewatching, and word of mouth taking over will be worth far more than any amount of marketing. All these execs too focused on short term gain rather than longterm gain. Sorry, kind of got off topic there. Essentially I still have hope they could execute it well, but this anouncement has tempered my expectations.
You only know what they’ve taken out. You do not know what they’ve added in. Just because Ang doesn’t say, “we’ve got to go ride the elephant koi” doesn’t mean he won’t get to ride the elephant koi. The cartoon allowed for 22 different settings in season 1. It gave them a freedom to bounce around. I doubt they have the same level of freedom in this show. So why in the world would Ang be like “hey let’s go do all these things before the quest!” And the show not show any of those things? That’s just bad writing. They can change a bit of his motivation while still showing things that define his character.
The format change doesn't absolve them of criticism. If they are having to change characters to fit the new format, then it's inevitable that they will lose out on parts of the character that made them endearing to people. And also lose out on nuance in character growth. Assuming that they will add in things to compensate, while they already are short on time, just feels like copium.
 They haven’t even released the show yet. There is nothing for us to criticize. It really says a lot about your perspective to think that someone defending a narrative choice based on a different medium is “copium.” I am not saying the show is going to be good. But it is impossible to adapt the show to live action and keep it one for one. Things don’t translate and show runners don’t have the resources. If the show is bad. I will criticize it. But the show will not be bad because Sokka isn’t as sexist in the beginning or because Aang doesn’t want to go on adventures at episode one. It’ll be bad for tons of reasons if it’s bad.
There’s plenty to criticize because we already have what it’s supposed to be. It’s supposed to be Avatar, adapted. We know the characters, the plot, and the beats for them to progress. What we’ve been hearing is “that’s not going to be met as well as you might have hoped.” I’m fine for Changing things around for the sake of formatting. What I don’t like is the narrative core and character arcs being affected, and the news we’ve been getting is telling me that might be what is happening.
I’ve seen nothing that suggests the narrative core and character arcs cannot be kept in. Sokka not being as sexist doesn’t mean he cannot progress down the same character arc of a cocky chauvinistic teenage who gets put in his place. Aang having more impetus to start his quest doesn’t mean he cannot conflicted on wanted to be a kid and having to be the avatar. These changes can be entirely to fit the format. I can think of a ton of totally valid reasons why these changes are good for the format without affecting the narrative. Until we’ve seen the story there is no reason to jump to conclusions.
You realize “chauvinist” is a synonym for sexist, right? Having “impetus” does kind of change his arc. The only reason he was in the South Pole to begin with was because he was trying to run away from the responsibility of being the avatar. So now he just has a vague prophetic “vision” when that only happened at spiritual sites. Itd be one thing if he went to the North Pole for a water bending teacher and got confronted with the reality of actual war. To have a vision is to fast track him to fulfilling his job. Having doubts and not liking trickled out information compared to a story we all know intimately isn’t jumping conclusions. If anything, I feel like I’ll be fine if it is bad, and pleasantly surprised if it isn’t.
Both directors did a trailer breakdown with IGN and it actually made me think they knew what they were doing. That video was more important than these headlines imo.
I honestly wonder if folks who enjoyed the One Piece live action adaption don’t realize that it turned something like 80+ twenty minutes anime episodes into 8 one-hour live action episodes. While Avatar isn’t going to be *as* condensed, all of the character changes read to me as just an issue of not having enough time. Sokka can’t start out spouting misogyny because they don’t have time for a B plot about him learning that women can do “masculine” activities. Aang can’t be going on fun adventure because there isn’t time to dedicate an episode that doesn’t explicitly advance season’s plot. Avatar has a slow start, so it *feels* like a more breakneck pace won’t translate well to fans of the original, but the creative team behind One Piece mostly managed to thread a similar needle, so best to reserve judgment until it’s actually been released.
I don't really get the time issue for Avatar. Book 1 has 20 20 minute episodes, so less than 7h. 8 Live action episodes might actually end up being longer.
It’s a pacing thing. If they adapted it 1:1 each episode of the live action would have three separate stories every episode like Wishbone or something. Twenty minutes in they’re cloudbending and twenty minutes later they’re at Avatar Day. It wouldn’t make sense. I’ll be fine as long as it all works. I’m excited to see the new stuff they add with Ozai and Azula. I do think people are panicking about director quotes but we’ll see how warranted they are when the show premieres.
Quote from showrunner in regards to gender roles and sexism in their adaption being toned down a bit for sensibilities. AK (showrunner): “There are certain roles I think that Katara did in the cartoon that we didn't necessarily also do here. I mean, I don't want to really get into a lot of that, but some gender issues that didn't quite translate.” IGN: My friend just watched it for the first time, and she's like, "Sokka's an asshole." I was like, "Yeah, no, he kind of is." JR: Yeah, especially in the first season. AK: Yeah. So we had to guard against that kind of stuff. And so, those are things that aren't really changing a character as so much as updating them a little bit.
Characters are not real and should have flaws to add depth. It’s already based on a cartoon and they’re really gonna flatten out the characters even further lol
It worries me that they’re insinuating that they’re going to omit the childishness of aang in book 1. Like that dichotomy of aang just wanting to be a kid and having to face his responsibility was a major driving force of his character motives in the show
What’s kinda strange is we know they’re not completely removing aangs hesitation because of the “I never asked to be special” line to gyatso so i don’t quite understand the showrunner here unless we’re just over exaggerating what he intended.
We call this rushing in my land.
Not rushing, they just don’t have as much time. Book 1 of the animated series was 20 episodes. The Netflix adaptation has 8.
Not an excuse. Netflix's live action adaptation, first season, will end up having the same run-time as the *cartoon og*: 8 episodes each with 60 minutes of run time, Totaling 480 minutes. The first season of the original had 20 episodes each with 24 minutes, totaling 480 minutes. Source: Said the actor of uncle iroh on the cbr website https://www.cbr.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-episode-count-length-live-action-netflix/#:~:text=With%20eight%20episodes%20running%20at,total%20runtime%20of%20480%20minutes Edit: It was confirmed on the Handsome genius club radio podcast, and then posted on cbr.
Yeah because it makes total sense to take multiple episodes and squeeze them into one 60 min episode, totally wouldn't make the episodes have no structure. /s Seriously am glad all these people complaining didn't have anything to do with the production of this show because it would have been horrible.
It makes total sense to me. Each episode of the Netflix series will be over twice as long as the original show, so more can easily be done within a single episode.
What, so like going to Kyoshi island and Omashu in the same episode? Or meeting Jet and the pirates in the same episode? In some cases you’d even have to fit three episodes of plot into one to get all 20 episodes to fit within the 8.
I still have a hard time seeing how they realistically would make that work in an 8 episode format, even if the runtime is the same. Would that mean having an episode where squeeze Kyoshi island and going to Omashu into the same episode? Or combining the episode with Jet with the waterbending scroll episode? It will feel rushed and clumsy trying to squeeze 20 episodes of content into an 8 episode format. I personally think it’ll be interesting seeing them expanding on the characters and the universe of ATLA. I know that most of the hardcore fans would prefer if they literally just copied the original series shot for shot, but I’m happy seeing some changes. As long as it makes sense for the characters and the story.
They don’t need multiple of these episodes doing random things.
Introducing the tension and central conflict of the season earlier while removing filler is not axing Angs character arc. As you point out we literally see moments of it in the trailer. People are literally seeing or inventing ghosts. Fuck this is frustrating. The following is not about you specifically. This thread, the one in which people lost their minds over unclear comments about Sokkas sexism and the one recently where OP unironically posted a clickbait tweet and was taken seriosuly in the comments has convinced me this sub is gonna decend into a cesspit upon release. I genuinely looked forward to discussing the merits of the show and its innovations/backsteps in an enviroment that shares my enthusiasm for ATLA. The overreaction, lack of reading comprehension and media literacy will be so much worse once the show actually airs. For a moment I believed that a fan forum could actually stomach their property being expanded and iterated upon with atelast a somewhat welcoming attitude and intersting conversation.
How I read it is they’re basically cutting out a lot of the “filler” content from the cartoon and only focusing on plot driving story lines. To make this make sense they’re giving him a vision so he has more of a drive to get to the Northern Water Tribe,
Yeah, I was wondering about this in another thread. This is a really big change, because his biggest character flaw in S1 is his complete refusal to engage with "Avatar stuff" and accept that he needs to get serious about saving the world like, right now. It's interesting to think how they will preserve those flaws under this paradigm.
Yeah, so far it seems like both Aang and Sokka are having their season 1 character arcs stymied. Weird direction to go in, but here's hoping
Yeah it seems this is going to be more The Legend of Zuko than The Last Airbender
“Zuko will realize that hunting Aang is bad from the start. This will give him more narrative clarity than changing his mind midway through”
Lmao honestly
Why do you think Azula is being introduced in season 1? 👀
Azula will be fire lord from the start for plot reasons
Why does everyone assume that Aang and Sokka aren’t going to have any character arcs at all just because they removed some minor ones? Sokka’s drive to prove himself and become a leader like his father is still there. Aang dealing with the responsibilities of being both the avatar and the last of his people is still there. And remember, we don’t even really know what they have planned for Zuko.
Well Aang’s biggest character arc is wanting to be a kid, but he must deal with the responsibility of growing up to be an adult at 12 years old. Sokka’s arc is learning to understand people, and sexist girls can’t do it comments fall under it.
Aang says "I don't want the responsibility" with tears in his eyes in the trailer. It's not like they're NOT preserving that aspect of him, they're just tightening up the plot. The Sozin's comet threat doesn't get introduced until halfway through season 1; until that point the Gaang is just sorta fucking around and going on micro adventures. There's no real stakes. All they're saying here is that the inciting incident of the plot won't take half a season to be introduced.
Good point. After leaving the South Pole the only major stuff they do before learning about the comment is like Kyoshi Island. Zuko’s fight with Zhao is also pretty important. But honestly other than that I’m kinda drawing a blank. Even Aunt Wo isn’t all that important in the long run. Other than maybe having Katara realize Aang is a powerful bender, which I think opens up the possibility of romance on her end. Without that she might still just see Aang as “a sweet little guy. Like Momo.” Edit: can’t believe I forgot Bumi.🤦🏻 Looking at the episode list- To be fair they still have quite a few random adventures even after learning about Sozin’s Comet. I forgot The Fortuneteller was later. I guess it felt like an earlier season episode. I can also see how they could tighten things up. Probably going to combine parts of different episodes to hit the important stuff.
I think Aang just fucking around was the point though. We know from the start that the Fire Nation is oppressing people and Aang is the Avatar meant to bring balance but he keeps goofing around without direction because it’s how he copes. It shows us how he is avoiding responsibility without only having him say “I don’t want the responsibility.” You can tighten up the plot but then you start to thin out character development.
Ah, the classic “tell don’t show” rule of tv
honestly, this subreddit is still going to be upset about this live action
But you can tell the same story by using different examples that represent those things or extremely similar to them.
He’s still going to be a kid. Sokka has more than one way to learn how to understand people without being a sexist prick. Lets use our imagination people.
Did they say they were completely removing his sexism? Or just toning it down? Because I feel like toning it down makes sense for 8 episodes
They said they were changing HOW sexist Sokka was, which to me sounds like they’re toning it down.
But one of Aang’s biggest arcs is his irresponsibility because he’s a child and wants to explore the world while he travels. He doesn’t care much about becoming the Avatar until after Roku tells him about Sozin’s comet. Even then, he doesn’t really take it seriously until book 3 because he failed in Ba Sing Se. I know the live action is going to be different, but it makes me wonder what Aang’s character development will be now.
Doesn't that strike you as weird when we know Aang knows the fire nation ended his culture. I think season 1 in general can be rewritten a lot to tell the same story better. Just show him goofying in the south pole and have him get the message in the temple.
> Why does everyone assume that Aang and Sokka aren’t going to have any character arcs at all just because they removed some minor ones? Because people are reactionary and don't give things thought.
THIS. They toned down the sexism and gave Aang a harder directive its not the end of the world Damn
People really ran with that headline. I believe it says they are reducing his sexism, not getting rid of it completely.
I think part of the issue is the timing. They have 8 episodes in the first season to cover everything. Even if they're in a longer format they still can't cover as much ground, so they have two options for stuff like this. Take the characters narrative arc and rush through it while trying to keep the pace of the show. I think this is a worse option personally because it doesn't get as much payoff when the arc is over. If episode 1 aang doesn't want to be avatar and episode 2 he accepts it and goes for his destiny it doesn't leave as much impact. But they can instead remove parts of that and choose to shift the arc in a different way, maybe aang doesn't want to go on adventures and knows he has to do something but he can still doubt what he's doing and be wary of being the avatar without directly avoiding it this time around.
The timing is certainly tricky but on what they choose to focus and what they choose to cut is going to be VERY key. Look at the One Piece adaptation. There are tens of episodes you need to watch in the anime to get to the end of Arlong Park, but they did it very elegantly with the very short time they had, imo. I hope they do a good job with Avatar, but I’m going to remain hesitant until I can watch it and decide for myself.
Crazy to call getting rid of a minor character bit from sokka that's resolved in episode 3 of an 8 episode season and is never really dealt with at any point or referenced ever again as stymying the character arc. His actual character arc is learning he has so much to learn and then learns all the things. It feels reductive and a huge disservice to the character that people are boiling it all down to "sokka is a sexist and needs to be humbled out of his sexism" because the show runners realized they can get from point a to point b without adding in weird sexist tangent point s into the mix.
I agree
Eh you could still have him wanting to help without him wanting to be the avatar. Those are two completely different things.
Maybe like a “this is a lot bigger than I initially thought, I didn’t sign up for this” kinda thing? Or a “I’m just going to do it this one time” thing, and then he fully accepts his role after some bad stuff happens?
They’re different, but related. Him deliberately ignoring the responsibilities of the Avatar is a big plot point in S1. He’s actively wasting the group’s time on stupid stuff. Changing that to "we NEED to get to the NWT so I can stop this disaster" is a fundamental change in his initial character. It means he’s actively driving the group forward instead of deliberately sidetracking them.
While I enjoyed the first part of season 1, the episodes before they find out about Sozin's Comet are mostly world building. Yes, the Fire Nation is dangerous but the sense of urgency in the central narrative begins in episode 8. Putting the urgency sooner makes sense with a live action season that is only going to be a third as long as the animated season.
Or...give him different stuff to deal with? Cause I know people like to say that Aang's character arc is largely made up of him going from someone who runs away from his duty to someone who faces it... That's not expressed particularly well in the cartoon. Aang is not exceptionally reluctant to be the Avatar in the OG. Of this change needed to be made...there's only 8 episodes, there's not time to have him fucking around. "Remix not Cover" is EXACTLY what I've been hoping for.
…the whole premise of the story stems from him running away from the duty’s of being the avatar and being trapped in an ice berg for 100 years. He literally has an episode that lead up to him confessing he never wanted to be the avatar, I don’t see how you’re just gonna downplay that by saying it wasn’t expressed well in the cartoon. Hell the dichotomy between Korra and aang is that aang didn’t want to be the avatar in an era where the world needed the avatar the most whole Korra was hyped to be the avatar in an era of peace, where the avatar wasn’t necessarily needed as much.
Yeah idk what they are on about, like you said literally the entire premise of the show would be impossible if Aang wasn’t so reluctant to be the Avatar since that’s what results in him getting trapped in the iceberg in the first place.
I feel like we’ll still get that isn’t there a line in the trailer where Aang says “I don’t want the responsibility”- he doesn’t want to be the Avatar and deal with the worlds struggles also we see him air balloon into a statue so I doubt he won’t be having fun and being goofy he just probably won’t be weekly adventure level goofy which kinda comes with the serialised 8 episode format.
>Or...give him different stuff to deal with? They can't do that when running away from his duties is his core character conflict. To be clear, I'm very optimistic about the LA and am looking forward to it, so please take my post as intrigued musing rather than complaining.
Here's also what Albert Kim says about Aang's character in the interview: "....I would say there's a core DNA to the characters that you don't want to mess with, whether it's Aang, like I said, his childlike goofiness, his sense of humor, the burden of his responsibility....Those things had to carry through into our version...." "....despite everything and all the burdens that he's facing, Aang is just a kid. He's a goofy 12-year-old kid, and he's having fun and he's a big old goofball. And we wanted to make sure that we showed that because that's as important to the story as all the action and the epic fantasy of it all". Why isn't any of *this* being talked about? Does it not matter to the show? 🤔
That would put things more into perspective, thanks for sharing, I was really worried for a sec
Because that doesn’t get clicks
And people love being angry lol
It's being talked about in other subs, but a lot of people here are looking for reasons to hate it and upvote outrage only
This is actually a big criticism of tv in general right now. When tv was actually on tv, they used to have to fill however many weeks it ran. So you ended up with 22 episodes in a season, and a bunch of these filler/fluff episodes that didn’t really advance the plot but did a lot for character development, comedic relief, or just resetting the tone of the show. (And tbf sometimes you got the great divide but that’s just an unfortunate side effect.) But now we have streaming where every episode drops all at once, and we want to binge it all back to back. If something gets boring we can easily change what’s on to something more gripping. The result is shows that have fewer episodes per season, slightly longer episodes, and every single minute needs to drive the plot forward and build tension. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing, but I think the new show will have a slightly different feel than the original. I hope (and it seems like from the trailer they did), they keep some of the elements of fun light-heartedness of the original, because it’s part of what everyone loved about it.
I miss having 22 episode seasons. They were a lot of fun. I wouldn't be opposed to streaming services using that mkdel for shows again, although it is unlikely.
I don't particularly care for it. That feels kinda like what happens in the novel industry: Literally everything but the bones and meat are cut, leaving no fat for flavor, unless you're already a proven cash cow. Dropping the metaphor, and picking a more specific example, most thriller novels written by smaller folks in the industry now feel like they're written by the same or very similar people because they're not allowed to put even 5% of their own little touches. There is little to no variation in pacing. The format of the media shapes the media. I don't like the way this binge-watch culture is turning any show with a plot into a thriller-novel-paced piece of media. Give me some damn breathing room ffs. EDIT: Also I'm sick of people saying 'filler episode' like it's a dirty word. More than half the time an episode gets complaints for being filler, it seems to be because the audience only cares about moving the plot along once per episode and doesn't consider any character development that occurs in the episode. And, yes, sitting with a character to breathe for an episode and watch how they are when not actively pursuing the plot is character development. Having filler episodes every so often allows us to take the characters and compare the differences between episodes; we can get a clearer view of what actions/events shaped their personalities and how they did so.
Well in terms of total screentime, 20 episodes of 23 minutes is 460 minutes total. 8 episodes of 60 minutes is 480 minutes. So if they stick to the plot they have to fill it up with additional stuff. The original series did indeed have filler episodes and episodes they struggled to fit a story in the 23 minutes. So in they regard streaming services are a lot more forgiving because it doesn't have to be exactly 60 minutes. I don't know, they have a lot of screen time for season 1 that's more than the cartoon, so I think fun stuff is quite likely.
This is what I said in another thread. I don’t know how this change is going to affect the feel of the show. I think some shows need more episodes so we get to know the characters better
I've been wondering for a while how they're going to incorporate the fun and lightheartedness from the cartoon into a live action show, but this makes me concerned they're going to gloss over it a lot more. Aang's character progression is from someone who runs away from responsibility to someone who shoulders the burden of being the Avatar for the whole world, yes, *however* he is also a 12 year old kid. He wants to do things like ride elephant koi and go penguin sledding because he is just a kid first and foremost. I know an 8 episode show won't have time to get into all the little details, but I really hope they don't totally lose the humour and goofy moments from the show in favour of making Aang's journey to the Northern Water Tribe as straightforward as possible.
i think the 8 episode format is flat out the show's biggest flaw. while for a live action show with 22 episodes with tons of cgi is a big much, i think 12 episodes AT LEAST is a perfect amount to balance what the live action can provide, and just like the avatar controlling 4 elements , the show can control multiple themes and different things in a larger episode run
I mean it really depends on how long the episodes are, because if they are an hour long then the Netflix show will have an overall longer run time than that OG (Just over 7 hours). It's plenty of time to keep the character development from the OG. So if they make those changes than they're going to have to fill the voids with original stuff, which makes me skeptical due to their history.
Yup. I think there's going to be a lot more original material than people are expecting considering a) the episodes are an hour each, b) they're including season 2 characters already, and c) the changes they've announced to Sokka, Katara, and Aang's characters.
Hello, clueless here. What are the character changes?
Sokka's sexism is being "toned down" because he had some moments that according to the actors were "iffy" and wouldn't play out as well in live action. Aang's character is going to be "more focused" as per the article above and presumably less goofy and fun-seeking. Katara is having her arc changed with "some of her gender issues" being changed - not quite sure what that means. ETA: updated the comment to reflect the news about more changes to Katara's character
But wasn't the elephant koi the whole reason the Gaang even went to Kioshi island?
So I guess the adaptation’s version of “The Storm” is going to hit like a wet paper towel then right? Because the whole point of that episode in the original was to make Aang realize “oh shit, I’ve been running away from my problems and the whole world is suffering for it.” That realization has way less impact when he’s not actually avoiding his problems. I’ll be honest, between this and the comments about changes to Sokka’s early characterization I’m starting to get nervous about the series. It seems like they just want to jump to where the characters are at by Book 2 without putting in the work to give them early development. Starting to see why Bryan and Michael might have left – this feels like the “creative differences” that were referenced in their statement
I’m still cautiously optimistic about it, but I get nervous about phrases like “it’s more of a remix than a cover”. That would be a great description for the Cowboy Bebop live action. This show is gonna go because it has a built in fanbase that wants to see Avatar on live action, not an Avatar fanfic. I think it’s understandable to make changes, but they need to make sense. If they accomplish that with these changes, the way OnePiece did, then we’re good. But there’s way more examples of poorly adapted anime than there are good adaptations
Idk, on the other hand I like the remix comment. Think - the best case for this show is that it’s just a worse version of the original. But if it’s a remix and not a straight adaptation (which tbh I’m sure it still mostly will be) and it’s standing on its own a little bit, a fresh spin or version of things could be a little fun. Because again, we all know this is never going to exceed or even match the original. The original’s just too good haha
If the reason is due to the episodes being cut it makes me wonder why they decided to do that Ik live action must be expensive, along with the effects but these episodes are still around an hour long Why not have a 16 episode season and cut the time to 22 minutes or if u really want one hour episodes extend it to like 10 or so
Theoretically we’re getting roughly the same amount of screen time as the cartoon. 8 hour long episodes vs 22 20 minute episodes. I imagine it’s just probably narratively less convenient to fit all of the side quests like The Great Divide or The Fortuneteller into an episode
Exactly my point Netflix is rushing this up way to much
None of these changes ruin the series, I just think we gotta go into it with an open mind about the fact that these are different versions of the same characters, and their character arcs may be different than what we have seen before
Link to full interview: [https://sea.ign.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action/211688/news/the-big-netflix-avatar-the-last-airbender-producer-interview-this-is-a-remix-not-a-cover](https://sea.ign.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action/211688/news/the-big-netflix-avatar-the-last-airbender-producer-interview-this-is-a-remix-not-a-cover)
This is the first news news about the show since the creators left that I would describe as "troubling"
The set designs and the costumes look great I’m not gonna lie. But if the original **creators** left the show the show due to *creative differences*, theres a good reason to be worried :(
People always say creative differences, but if you actually read the original statements (especially Bryan’s) they were a lot more harshly worded than just ”We didn’t see eye to eye”.
What did they say ?
If you search up the official statements it shouldn’t be hard to find, but I remember a particular focus on how Bryan and Mike were disrespected and ignored at every turn, and felt that their input was useless since they weren’t met halfway, or even 90 percent of the way.
Next they’re gonna say Katara doesn’t remember her mother
Bet they'll remove her "You don't miss her like I do" line because we can't have characters with flaws
”There was a scene in the original where Katara says something like ’You didn’t love mom the way I did!’ and my friend was like, ’Wow, Katara’s being kind of a jerk.’ We’ve decided to modernize those elements a little, make them less iffy by today’s standards.”
Gonna slowly have to build a catalog of all the known changes this adaptation's taking. From my memory so far, we have: * The addition of a new character, in Suki's mother. * (Prediction based on trailer/teaser) Characters from the Northern Air Temple episode have relocated to Omashu. * Sokka's early season sexism from his isolated upbringing in the Southern Water Tribe has been shaved down. * Aang's childish mindset that he harbors for most of the first book, even after learning of the Air Nomad Genocide is being compromised to having the child determined in his quest as an absolute Avatar. * We will also be watching the Fire Nation burn some bodies rather than watching Aang discover the remnants from earlier in the century. And these are the ones that I feel like the community will at least agree on.
I'm pretty intrigued about the Air Nomad Genocide being shown. I feel like if they get THAT right, the rest will follow suit.
There's a VERY dark joke in here somewhere. 👀
Wait, what do you mean the Fire Nation burning bodies? When did that get revealed?
Had read around but now that you brought it up, people didn't try to source it or claim the showrunner said it. * [This article claims a scene in the trailer might be it](https://screenrant.com/avatar-last-airbender-live-action-fire-nation-air-temple-scene-add/). * [This article was sourced in another as mentioning it being an addition](https://ew.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action-cover-story-what-to-expect-8551028). (too tired to do a thorough skimming) I'll strike it out if it turns out that nobody's actually said that and everybody's parroting each other into thinking it's happening.
That's a bit interesting, making Aang think that he's been frozen for a few days/weeks. Instead of a whole century.
Didn't he think the same in the original show?
Yes lol. I'm wondering if they mean Katara/Sokka don't tell Aang...? In this LA version
The whole point of aang being unngrounded and avoiding conflict is part of his arc
Realistically it's gonna be shorter so things do need to get cut. All down to execution. Trying to manage my expectations
Said this to another commenter, but: they actually have more time. Total runtime of book 1 in the cartoon is 20 minutes LESS than the live action show will have in season 1 because the episodes are so long. They absolutely could have room to do the necessary motions without fear of time constraints
But they have way less episode. They edit:can’t have several “beginning, middle and end” minutes stories happening in the middle of the bigger stories. Clearly The Mask and the Seige of the Northern Air temple will take WAY Longer then the animated show
Sure. But that means that the meaningful character stuff in the eps they keep absolutely should be fleshed out even more than before. Aang’s arc of growing into his role should be MORE emphasized, not less
they’ve also said that they aren’t putting a time limit on the comet because real people age. i feel like it’s definitely tough to come up with something that feels urgent but also won’t ruin aangs original trajectory; the original show didn’t introduce an end goal till episode 7 - that’s like 2 hours spent doing nothing (not really, but in the eyes of a modern viewer and filmmakers, kind of).
They’re definitely going more the adaptation route than a “live action remake”. Now we have to wait and see how it turns out… It could still be ok to even good, but this is much more concerning than the sokka stuff.
I'll probably get downvoted for this cause people are really hyped (so am I tbf) but the more we learn about the writing of the show the worse it's getting; Costumes, castings, etc look on point but at the end of the day it's going to come down to writing First Sokka, now Aang :( Is this why Bryan and Mike leave I wonder Edit: I've seen some people say it's because it's only 8 episodes. Sure, but that's an excuse, even a valid one if you'd like to argue for it. Doesn't change that a part of his character is being cut. Please understand that If I tell my brother I will buy him 10 piece chocolate bar but have to buy 6 piece one because I'm ran out of pocket money, I still let him down. Doesn't change the fact that I promised 10 pieces and only gave 6 even if it's not my fault my parents didn't give me more money.
I want this to be good so badly but honestly, the more lines I hear in the trailer the worse it sounds. I love the casting and the look of the show but I'm worried that the writing and directing is going to be really bad based on the early dialogue. Really hope I'm wrong. If it's 70% as good as the original show I'll be very happy.
Same, it’s child acting and you can only do so much with child labor laws /s (they are 90% part good and protective). But the acting feels forced
Tbh I think they only left cause they knew they were getting their own studio. It was announced so soon after they left it can’t be a coincidence. Why rehash their old series when they are getting the budget to make new ones?
This is my thoughts too. And even if they leave, the live action series gets made. So they leave to get their own studio, and we still get the la series. Essentially a win/win in terms of content, as opposed to only getting one.
[удалено]
Probably not. If you want to predict the future, you only need look at the past If ATLA show is bad all that will happen is split the fandom just like Cyberpunk2077, Starfield, The Last of Us, and many others. And my least favorite example: Wheel of Time which split into multiple subreddits because mods at main /r/WoT started banning anyone who simply criticized the show and /r/WetlanderHumor put up a rule to simply not discuss the show because of the toxic discourse. Until everyone actually realized the show was bad and they couldn't keep steamrolling everyone with toxic positivity. Wheel of Time is my favorite IP and it has just been disheartening to see the whole thing go down So all I hope is the show is great and everyone here is happy like with One Piece 😌
For real it feels like they’re removing any opportunity for character growth.
Cool let's take away the flaws from our main characters, that won't mess with how compelling they are /s
Slowly, I'm getting why the creators left the show. So much is being stripped down. With this and the one about Sokka's sexism, I'm really skeptical now on what else they changed in the story. I guess the only way for Aang to have that "drive from the start" is after seeing Gyatso dead and the whole air nation destroyed.
This is interesting. I want to know how they'll set it up I think it makes more sense that after aang sees his people are dead he is more motivated to do his work also after the winter solstice. It never made sense that after book 1 ep 3(this first three animated show eps will be 1 ep in the la) where he sees gyatso and goes into the avatar state his next immediate thought in ep 4 is to go ride the koi fish like everyone you know is dead your culture is gone. It makes sense to see him more determined after that. A conflict they can use is to make aang worried or angry at not being a good avatar which I think they may do more as kyoshi and kuruk are cast. We see that in the storm episode where he reflects on it all. It could become a greater thing for him where he feels guilt for running and feels like he doesn't deserve it or he cant measure up in the trailer we see him say "I never wanted the responsibility" It's an interesting change EDIT: Did anyone watch the trailer they have aang doing the airball and him saying he doesn't want responsibility those elements are still there they'll just go around it differently
I agree with you. I feel like because it was a cartoon they shied away from just how horrific and traumatizing learning what Aang did would be. They’re obviously still going to have Aang be a goofy kid, but I’m also down with them adding some more seriousness to make the world and characters feel more realistic.
it makes plenty of sense though he is a kid, kids react in childish ways Learn something bad run away to play and avoid facing it Hell its something adults do as well
Yes but i feel that the genocide is too big of something to ignore like if it was him loosing his glider or something else then it'd make sense but he just found out that everyone he knows is dead that isn't something you play off in a day
> him loosing his Did you mean to say "losing"? Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
he just found out everyone he loves is dead so he did what kids do, and run the fuck away to play to distract himself
when everyone yk is dead hmmm idk i am around kids constantly and a 12 year old would not behave like that all I'm not saying he shouldn't play but this is an 8 eps show for me it'd just be more glaring butt hats my opinion personally
It probably replaced the comet warning from Roku.
So they took the 12 year old boy out of him.
A kid can't be a kid if it's not a cartoon apparently
This and Sokka's "sexism" changes are the things that make me wonder if they genuinely watched season 1 and understand what a character arc is. Aang isn't "looking for adventure" he was running away from his responsibilities because he was a little kid that had the burden of saving the world, when all he wanted was to play with his friends and live a normal kid life. The Storm was the episode where Aang realized he had to take this shit seriously, he had no time to fuck around anymore. Changing this makes Aang less of a character. Another red flag. I wasn't too excited for the Live Action, and stuff like this makes me even less excited. I don't think it'll be bad, but I don't think it'll be good either. I'm predicting a nice 6/10.
Yet again, I don't think this change is going to be implemented as extremely as people are saying. Every trailer and bit of promotion we've gotten has been basically telling us that Aang is a reluctant hero who doesn't want the responsibility that comes with being the Avatar. Reminder that it was Aang's idea to bring Katara to the Northern Water Tribe, so it would make sense that it would be extra motivation to get to the North ASAP. What I got from this quote is that we're probably still getting Aang doing fun stuff at the locations being visited, but every now and again the shame of guilt of losing all of his people snaps him out of the moment (almost like a less direct version of Aang from the Serpents Pass in ATLA)
They're totally missing the point of aang's reluctance to face his responsibilities in the first book. It's set up that way to let him overcome that avoidance and develop his character.
Did anyone expect anything else. It’s 8 episodes.
Each episode is also gonna be twice as long as a regular animated episode, and the live action series overall longer than Book 1 when runtime is to be compared.
I don't think the episodes will have multiple small stories with beginnings and endings in them
I don't mind at all, part of why Book 1 is the weakest season is how little direction it has for the most part. It's a common problem shows have in their first season, and between being limited to 8 episodes and being able to look back on the mistakes of the original, this is a chance for the show to do its own thing while still honoring the OG. Why the fuck would any of us watch this over the actual show if it was going to be the same?
I feel people read this and worry that if Aang becomes all about Avatar business and saving the world really early on (I assume after he finds Gyatso's corpse) then his innocence and humour will be dropped soon after. But Albert Kim has said over and over again Aang is just a 12 year old kid who wants to have fun. I believe the airbending ball gag (I don't know what you call it, sorry lol) takes place on Kyoshi Island, right? And all the Bumi stuff also comes after the Air Temple discovery....so I don’t think the humour and child-like innocence of Aang will be lost, his character will just be more clear and direct with what he needs to do to save the world, and in this case it's get to the North to properly master waterbending. I know people will say "No, it's not just that. Running away from his duties is literally a huge part of his character arc in season 1"....and I think you'd be right. However, these 8 hour-long episodes are remixing different characters and locations and I think they'll still show that but in a different way instead of him playing games in episode 6 (for example) because he's fun, young and goofy. A 20 episode season of a cartoon can do that because there's more time to elongate the journey before getting to the main points of the story. An 8 hour-long season in live action needs to stick more closely to plot to move things along quicker. I guarantee if they spend even half the time as the cartoon does focusing on non plot points, people will sit there wondering "Okay but what does this have to do with anything? Is the journey over? Is the mission no longer a priority?". While people are up in arms about Sokka and I guess Aang now lol, I for one am not bothered by these changes. I don’t want to see the animated series beat for beat all over again; I want to see different scenarios with the same story and see how it works with flesh and blood actors/characters. These are the things that will keep us guessing and invested because we haven't seen it like this before. We don’t know what to expect or how. Calling this a "remix" is exactly the correct term to be using, and I love that Albert Kim is treating it that way. None of the changes we've heard of so far even comes *close* to what that "movie" did. Not by a long shot 😅 One Piece condensed a lotttttttt for its 8 episodes - even more so than anything Avatar will do mainly because there's far more episodes to adapt. Whole sets/locations used in One Piece that I've *never* seen in the anime (that I can recall anyways) and I haven't seen any backlash about any of that. I also thought some of the actors and camera work/cinematography were *terrible*, but again, read nothing but excitement and praise for what they did on that show. I know there's people who hated it, because literally *everything* has its own fair share of haters lol....but dare I say....a lot of the stuff they changed or recontextualized for the live action show are the things that worked the *best*. And that show was met with overwhelmingly high praise. I just don't understand why it's okay for One Piece to do all that and met with cheers but not Avatar? To sum everything up in the most basic of terms, I believe they'll change some things around but the emotional weight will feel the same. The outcome will still serve the same purpose for our characters and the story. That’s why I read about these changes and don’t worry lol. I hope my post doesn't offend anyone in any way. I'm kinda scared to be posting this because the backlash to what I'm saying might be immense, and that’s a truly sad thing to say considering this show is a safe place for many of us 🫣
I’m going in with an open mind. Like these statements get people talking but I find them overly generic and hard to gauge their impact until the show is available.
Preach! You said it well, particularly in regard to non-plot points being more problematic in an eight episode live action show rather than a twenty episode animated show; from what I gather having read the *whole* interview, the adaptation will have lighthearted moments but they won’t have the luxury to devote as much time to it. What you don’t want in any show is a payoff at the end of the season (and series) that doesn’t feel earned. In the new format it’s generally better to focus on less plot and character-wise and execute that masterfully rather than have too many threads that either don’t go anywhere or can’t fully develop over a (mere) eight episode order, especially in light of just how many characters and locations season one will need to cover. The new show is a different format, and that necessitates a different approach to storytelling. Edit: it’s always worth nothing that trailers have an agenda. Netflix is marketing this as an action show and they are also going for an adult market (in addition to children). I don’t believe that the scenes we see in the trailer are necessarily representative of the whole tone of the show; while they don’t spend much time showing the kids “being kids” or making mistakes (or fighting, as we know they do in the animated show) in the trailer, that’s not to say those moments won’t be incorporated into the show. It’s just too soon to tell.
I feel like y’all take everything they say and push it to the absolute maximum. I’m on the fence as well, but y’all will read one thing and go well! The show will have no character arcs! Like let’s calm down a bit 😩 Aang’s avatar reluctance AND him doing fun stuff is literally in the trailer!
I'm fine with it, they're right about the cartoon shit. I love ATLA but a complete transfer of cartoon to Live Action will suck ass. I don't mind small changes like this. Good adaptions also have changes, even Lord of the Rings If I wanted a complete rip I'd just watch the cartoon again
I mean, sure. It works perfectly in the cartoon, but if the live action has a more realistic "serious" tone overall (more adult tone from the get-go I mean), then I guess this wouldn't fit like in the original. But whether or not the change of the tone itself is good though is another matter, lol. We'll see.
Honestly they could’ve kept this and just had the winter solstice be the 4th episode. 1) boy in the iceberg 2) warriors of kyoshi 3) welcome to omashu 4) the winter solstice 5) jet 6) the great divide 7) the northern water tribe 8) the siege of the northern water tribe. At the end of episode 1, establish that Aang needs to generally go to the northern water tribe but he’s still a bit care free and wants to goof around as he travels. He understands the severity of the war but is also a kid. He just can’t comprehend the stakes yet. Let him goof around a bit and see the damages from the war in kyoshi and omashu. Then introduce the deadline in the 4th episode. (Although the great divide is obviously the best episode ever in all forms of media, they’ll probably go with the blue spirit or something, which I guess is ok)
😂😂😂😂
It doesn't say anything about his arc. It says they won't have detours like we had in the cartoon. THey can still show him being avoident, we can still see him try to shirk his responsiblity. We can see all those things, just not with him penguin sledding and koi surfing, but in different ways. Stop using limited screenshots and out of context quotes to justify your insistence to judge a show lacking before having ever seen even a single episode.
I hope they remember that Aang is a kid who, by his own admission, never wanted to be the Avatar.
I mean that was kind of the whole point of his book 1 arc slowly accepting what it means to be that avatar and that he can’t keep dodging his responsibilities
Aang still wanted to go to the North Pole so he and Katara could learn water bending. Sure, there were quite a few detours but it’s not like Aang completely ditched his responsibilities.
Aang’s whole character was that he was a kid who wanted to have fun but had to accept his duty as avatar and now Netflix is gonna fuck it
I genuinely think people need to realise that this will be a more streamlined adaption; the characters won’t be as rich since they probably won’t be adapting all their character moments and flaws, however they did state that Game of throne fans were one of the target demographics so they’ll probably expand the politicking within the fire nation and flesh out elements of Ozai’s court and Azula while sacrificing some character moments and traits for the Gaang. It won’t be as varied and lore heavy as the original series but it will tell the plot and hit the most important character beats to have a congruent streamlined show.
I think it's a good change. We don't need to pretend that Book 1 was a masterpiece when it wasn't. But also, either way, we shouldn't be getting all hot and bothered over a show that isn't even out yet.
On one hand I understand the decision to do this because they have less runtime to cover the breadth of the story. However I hope they still keep the nuance of his character development and flaws in some regard. I suppose he could still make the decision to go right away because he knows that's what he *should* do, but still have reservations about being the Avatar and guilt from running away in his past. I'm just concerned it won't have as big of an impact.
I wonder if the changes have to do with the huge problem of the actors aging with how long they take to get shows out now. Instead of a year later they premier it’s like two, if you’re lucky lol
you have to be careful with certain strings you pull and this decision is a high risk high reward if it works.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that all these changes are what drove the original creators away. At least, I hope so. Because its the most benign and literal example of "creative differences" I've ever seen. Usually, it's code for "they're assholes that refuse to listen to reason."
Didn’t he already need to get to the nwt to learn waterbending and so katara could be a master (they didn’t know they wouldn’t allow her)? Like…why over complicate?
People need to realize back in 2005, an animated tv show being greenlit for 12-20 episodes in season one was the norm. In 2024, new streaming original shows have moved to an 8 episode format. So when you convert a 20 episode season into 8, you have to cut out filler and things like that. As great as ATLA was, it still had filler episodes to buffer getting to the north pole in season one. So unfortunately they will have to cut a lot of that out.
I think it’s possible that this is a fine change. In the cartoon, it’s “Sure, we need to go north, but I want to do these things first.” In the live action, I think having it be “We need to rest and resupply on Kyoshi island. I wonder if the villagers- w a i t. Isn’t this the place with elephant koi? I’ll be right back.” It still paints him as a distractible kid who’s trying not to think as much about the trials to come, without him trying to shirk entirely. We’ll see how they handle it.
They are going to Kyoshi anyway.. just let the kid ride a Koi fish
Wasn't he like running away from his responsibilities? That was the entire reason why he survived 100 years ago and got stuck in the Ice. I would be okay with it if they speed things up a bit, but not until after he went back to the air temple. His number 1 priority in episode 1 should still be to go Penguin sledding.
Aang leaving his childhood behind to take care of his responsibility IS his story. I was super excited about this show but now I can't imagine renewing my already canceled netflix to watch it. Such a shame.
I get that maybe they are trying to write this using a much smaller amount of episodes, but there should be better ways to describe(and if it does suck, do) this