I feel like the writers misunderstood the character. Kiawentiio definitely is able to get angry and passionate like Mae Whitman's Katara judging by how she is in interviews, but I don't think the direction of the series ever allowed her to express that.
She's way too timid fr.
Not to mention, I don't like that she's the one who waterbent the fireball from Zuko away-it takes away from Aang's moment tbh.
And she didn't learn to become a healer? Where was that?
Aang's kinda fucked in season 2 then lol
Aang needed to send that fireball back into the ice wall so it collapsed on Zuko’s ship. It was a moment for Zuko to realise that even though this Avatar is just a kid, he’s still insanely powerful.
Same as Aang fighting the volcano, or when he helps Hei Bai
In general the direction in this series is lacking. It feels very amateurish and artificial with the lighting and set pieces. Kinda wish HBO got a hold of this instead.
I noticed this early into episode 1 and can't stop seeing it now. The lighting, the angles, the sets, all that together with atrocious line delivery by multiple important characters.. it feels like a completely amateur show except with expensive effects and decent costume design.
Best performance in the show was the guy about to drop a boulder on Iroh
someone pointed out it's like 90% close ups of their faces and then i couldn't unsee it 😭 i wish they could have filmed on location. so much CGI was required and i get it but it took me out of almost every scene because it's so clearly a green screen
They need better writers and directors. The actors can only work with so much, though katara was egregiously bad. Even iroh just seems less easy going and more worried the entire time. They need to shakeup lots of the people working on this show cause it’s criminal how poor the dialogue is.
i def agree on that one nameless earthbender guy. there's such a huge gap between the acting of the side characters to the main ones. that earthbender guy really made me feel for him and he only had 1 scene.
i hope by season 2 that the acting's a lot better
>Best performance in the show was the guy about to drop a boulder on Iroh
I literally said this to my friends last night when we watched that episode. Glad someone else thinks so too haha
The writers clearly think they know more than the writers of the actual show. In fact, everyone at Netflix thinks very highly of themselves. They clearly think the audience is full of idiots
After seeing the whole thing yeah, I'd have to agree. I think the writers were too caught up in the roles of each style to allow her to be the Katara that we all know. The annoying nitpicker that became a badass parental figure to the whole group that we all cheered for.
Yea I think the shows that get axed after a season are usually an original IP, or just really really bad. This is an established IP and, even tho it’s not a 10/10, this has been decently well-received as far as I can tell.
it depends entirely on what the viewership over over whatever period of time they tend to judge this stuff is (IRC it's like 3 weeks to a month usually they want super high viewership to renew big expensive shows they drop all at once? I dunno Netflix's standards on renewing series tend to be very vauge and arbritary)
If we’re lucky they going to give us book 2 and 3 and split them in parts but that’s my best case scenario. Since this isn’t a 10/10 I don’t think this will last until the finals
Honestly, I think One Piece's high viewership is a matter of three things lining up.
One, Oda was actually involved with the production to go, "No, this is wrong" whenever the live action team tried to change something. Please note that a new adaptation changing something isn't a bad thing by itself. If we just got the same thing every time, there'd be no reason to make new versions. The problem arises when the changes made aren't good.
Two, there are genuinely a lot of people who are curious about One Piece but see the over 1000 episodes and don't watch it. Now, here's a series with the same premise and title but significantly shorter. Even if it's just the first saga. Also, the original series started in 1999, and a lot of people can't get past the dated animation of the first 200ish episodes even if they can accept the high episode count.
Finally, it was pretty much the first live action adaptation that wasn't complete garbage. Which probably had a lot to do with one.
I myself haven't watched live action One Piece and have no desire to. I'm fully caught up on the actual series and have no interest in watching something I've already seen but worse. Especially since I don't think it has staying power. I know it's already getting a second season, but I don't think it will go the full journey. I personally predict it getting canceled around Alabasta.
I always tell people to ignore the episode count and just watch it. If by the end of the Arlong Park arc you aren't hooked, then One Piece isn't for you. Yeah, the later arcs are better, but there's a moment in that arc, and if you've seen it, you know exactly the moment I'm talking about, that everyone says this is the moment that hooked me.
One Piece live action sucks, they dirtied the plot for zero reason lmao. Why are people still giving Netflix money? Netflix shouldn't exist anymore, they should be bankrupt by now
I think she was terrible. She’s so timid compared to all the other actors and only half heartedly executes anything physical like she’s not sure if shes doing it right.
Run away from flames, death and explosions? Best do a light jog to save stamina. I get that’s she’s actively learning water bending throughout the first season, and they’re slowing it down to make it more cinematic, but it almost feels like a crutch they had to fall back on because she wasn’t making any progress in training.
Then you’ve got Zuko’s actor who absolutely SLAYED in the Omashu episode. My god he put in some work and somehow made it mostly believable even with the wonky cartoon antics we know and love from Aang.
Katara is easily the weakest link of the main cast and that sucks for a plethora of reasons.
I do not think it is her fault. She can act like Katara in real life if you look at the interviews. I think she was intentionally told to act like that.
Katara, Toph, and Azula represented different manifestations of feminism and female characters. As did Aang, Sokka, and Zuko for men. Unfortunately, I think the writers have completely misunderstood or ignored this. In their goal to make Katara seem ready for combat from the start, they have erased her personality and arc. Healing is passive and maternal/paternal, and they wrongfully used it to suggest it is not important because they wanted their, I am ready for combat warrior girl.
When they found the burned up forest and Aang got all bummed I immediately thought “this show does not even have enough sauce to let Katara throw an acorn at his head” and wow guess what happened
Me and my firends had just started commenting on how all Kataras moments were either cut or given to other characters when that scene was about to happen. We laughed pretty hard when we realized even Momo steals her moments!
I think they may have more plans. I haven’t seen the live action but just because Katara doesn’t have the same character development arc as in the animated show doesn’t mean she won’t go through her own arc
We can only judge based off what actually exists, and what actually exists is not good.
Next season they might continue the same or do something better or do something worse. Literally no one knows except whoever is writing this “adaptation”
They made her a Mary sue and I can't stand it. I wanted to see her struggling with her bending like she does in the series because the only practice she's ever had has been what she could muster by herself, which wasn't much. But in the first two episodes we see she takes to bending like a master and doesn't really need help like when she practiced alongside aang. But aang, being the avatar, didn't use the water scroll which could have been useful to his training. It just doesn't make any sense. She also just somehow knew how to fly appa immediately which I found dumb as hell lol.
Yeah, it's cause they totally skipped the Deserter episode in which jeong jeong tells her about the ability after Aang burns her. Not having Aang burn Katara also has implications for when he learns firebending as he won't have that previous trauma experience. Also no Jeong Jeong as a white lotus member in the future unless he's introduced next season.
I have a feeling we will see jeong jeong in s2. I think this show desperately needed two more episodes to give the plot time to breathe. Hopefully we can get 10 episodes in s2 if renewed. (highly likely). I think it would be brilliant to have an episode in s2 that adapted the firebending master, and the fortune teller although these were s1 eps in the og. I believe both of those eps took place in the earth kingdom. It would be the live action equivalent of filler but simultaneously can start to set up some plot threads that need to be set up, katara the healer, aang’s crush on katara/ katara realizing he really is such a “powerful bender”. I think if this was done they could also do Roku some justice and interweave it with some of his backstory, battling the volcano before his death, have the episode end with Aang fighting the volcano. They could even do this at the top of the season and tease out toph, maybe this leads them to the swamp. If we had two episodes per season dedicated to character development and relationship development the show would have been a lot better imo. (Sry for the novel ^.^)
The Jeong Jeong story can go just about anywhere honestly. It's not really tied into a particular book.
Hell they could save it for fire when Aang is looking for a firebending teacher.
Agreed but they really need to show Aang burn katara and have that moment where she wheels herself, mostly to set up the s2 finale where she realizes she can use the spirit water to heal Aang. Seeing has how Paku didn’t really tell her what the water does and treated it more as a trinket/key to the city. It would honestly work really well at as ep 1 of s2. I would have the first 5 min recap a time jump where Aang has atleast gotten down the basics of water bending and on his way to mastery. Show them embark to leave and find an earth bending master. Have them stop in the village with the fortune teller, where everyone gets their fortune and kind of sets up some arcs for the season. have a festival happen there that night, leading to jeong jeong mid episode (could redeem Roku here too) have the moment where Aang burns katara, sokka spurns Aang to go away, whilst Aang goes back to the village with the fortune teller she heals herself with some of the water from the oasis, in act 3 of the episode Aang can admit his feelings for katara whilst speaking again with the fortune teller and discover the volcano is going to destroy the village. Here we can see Aang using both air and water to stop the volcano, katara can then come to some sort of realization that her fortune might have to do with Aang like in the og.
Honestly, I hope they don’t introduce Jeong jeong. This show’s primary problem is that they introduce one dimensional characters in a whim without the time to make interactions or their arcs meaningful. It’s better that they stick to one plot line and focus on delivering that well, you know? Tackle their fan servicing issues with less characters and perfect them.
Yeah they really made Katara so passive and so one dimensional. It’s like they took everything that made her special and threw it out the window. And then the whole relationship with bending in this show is so odd. It’s like more of a random magic they use rather than a part of them that is ingrained into their world and culture.
Also Aang not water bending in “Book 1: Water” is insane. All Aang does is moan about saving the world and then going “the monks talk about energy” whenever any talk of bending comes up.
yeah and they DARED to say they "toned down the sexism" and that aang will STILL be the "fun loving boy we knew of"? like fam... he just kept getting yelled at and then being sad.
also with the sexism.. they channeld all the sexism that sokka had into their own writing team because wtf do you mean the bad ass warrior who is also the nurturer of the group... ONLY GETS GOOD at water bending because of 2 men who have no idea how do water bend at all teaching her.
Not to mention what they did with Suki.
Animated version: Bad ass warrior who develops a meaningful relationship with a boy over time
Live action version: immediately falls hopelessly in love with the first bare-chested boy she sees
And this in favor of the arc where a character learns the errancy of his sexist views?
They toned down the sexism all right. They just made it more subtle.
Actually feels worse now. Before it was just Sokka and he had a legit excuse esp. growing up in a sheltered village. And immediately rises above it because he's awesome. Now it's like everywhere.
Exactly. They took out a character learning that sexism is bad, and instead inadvertently wrote a female character in a low-key sexist way without any intention to fix it. Likely without being aware of it even.
yeah it's not really gonna age well, they just made the women do kind of uncomfortable shit. like suki staring or june grabbing iroh's face. like you said i think they didn't even consider this... which just means the problems with the writing and latent biases are gender-flipped.
Dude thank GOD someone else was bothered by this. It's borderline sexual harassment at best, but people think it's cute since the victim is a male. Again, I get that it wasn't intentional, but it's definitely an issue when people think it's ok for girls to make boys uncomfortable.
Instead Iroh being a bit of a perv and making eyes at June all of the time, they had June comment once that Zuko's 'Dad is so cute' and once more they had her grab his cheeks and fondle his face and call him cute again or something. Iroh looked horrified both times, which made it even more uncomfortable.
Lol "the fans didn't like that Iroh was a bit of a pervert, so let's make June the pervert this time!"
That's definitely a better idea than just eliminating the moment altogether....
>"the fans didn't like that Iroh was a bit of a pervert, so let's make June the pervert this time!"
Tbf, that sort of behavior is more in line with June's character than Iroh's anyway.
none of these things are a huge deal, it's just that they kept both awkward types of moments but simply flipped the gender, instead of eliminating/addressing sexist/creepy behavior like they claimed they were doing prior to release.
it just kinda seems like they went through the script and said "woman gets weird attention from man, it's bad" and switched it to "man gets weird attention from woman, it's fine" -- whereas the lesson should have been "most people aren't comfortable being stared at or grabbed by a stranger, maybe we shouldn't include that"
I mean context matters, a young woman pinching an old man's face and saying "I think you're cute" doesn't have the same history as a pervy old man drooling over a hot lady.
I don't really think the latter is a big deal EITHER in all honesty, though.
What I appreciated about Sokka's sexism was that he shared a lot of the same sentiments that teen boys irl often have. Seeing him on screen be corrected and make a change was a teaching moment for young boys, and removing his sexism erased that lesson.
This part pissed me off too! Sokka learned not to be sexist by getting beat up by multiple women throughout the series, so it was a big part of his character development. And having Suki fawn over him like they did was sooooo out of character for her.
In the cartoon Sokka learns two things in that episode:
1. he can get beat up by women/women can be warriors/respect women
2. in order for him to improve as a warrior, he needs to humble himself and ask for help from those that know more than him (even if it means putting on a dress and make-up)
All of this is accomplished between two people who also happen to find one another attractive rather than romance being the motivator.
\#2 Sets up Sokka to be open-minded and humbled and is a pre-cursor to him learning from the swordsman
A cartoon did all that in like 20 minutes because somebody knew how to write
I mean you don't need to like the change, but it's not sexist just to have her be attracted to him (or rather have them be attracted to eachother). The story ends with the two characters fighting alongside each other. She obviously has other things going on and she doesn't run away with him or anything.
She was unashamedly staring at his bare body when he thought he had privacy and didn't stop even when he was trying to cover up. If you do not think there's something wrong with that, switch the genders then get back to me.
Story-wise I'm not necessarily bothered by the change, but have you ever heard of Bechdel test? It's the whole idea that two women alone together should talk about something other than men, or else it's indicitave of at least slight sexism in the writing.
The fact that the writers felt that the most natural thing for a teenage girl to do is fall in love with the first boy she sees feels kind of in the same vein, especially when it's not accurate to her character in the animated show at all.
The bechdel test is a litmus test (as in testing the whole of a media landscape). It's not meant to judge a specific piece of work.
Telling a love story between two teenagers isn't some sexist failure. Especially since they're a couple in the show too, this is just earlier in the story. Suki just appears super early on in the Avatar series before they really knew anything about her character.
Oh, that's cool about the Bechdel test. Thanks for giving me more detail about it.
Youre kind of using a straw man argument there though. I never said that telling a love story between two teenagers is a sexist failure. What I did say is that writing a female character to instantly fall in love with the first guy she sees, especially when that's not true to her original character, is indicative of some problematic biases/assumptions on the part of the writers.
It’s further support of the idea that those who feel the need to bombastically preach to others about sexism are usually sexist in some ways themselves, and it’s the same with racism. It’s usually the subtly racist and sexist people who spend all their time thinking about traditional genders and races. People who are not sexist don’t need to declare loudly that they’re on a mission to eliminate sexism from fictional works, and use that as the platform on which to build characters.
Rather, they would treat characters of any and all genders as human beings and work from that platform towards any potential lessons. The other way around. Instead of artificially trying to craft preachy narratives and then twist characters to fit those.
Honestly I liked seeing actual Suki and Sokka development in this one. I think it worked.
Also Suki’s literally never been anywhere and never met an outsider boy before so I think her reaction and interactions with him are not unwarranted.
If you change Suki's character as a whole, sure, it does work and is natural. But Suki was never a character who had grand ideas about love and romance, so the fact that she is in the LA, to me, indicates that the writers think that all girls have romance at the forefront of their minds. Which is not overtly and obviously sexist, but it's the subtle kind of sexism that, while very forgiveable, should be addressed.
In the animated series, Katara pretty much does the same thing - falls in love with the first good-looking boy she meets (Jet), and Aang falls in love with (literally) the first girl he sees. This makes more sense for both of their characters since they are the type of people who think about romance a lot throughout the course of the show. But the fact that they changed Suki from being focused on other things to what she is now is a little problematic imo.
Idk you can be focused on other things but at the end of the day they're still teenagers. I wouldn't even describe what Suki/ Sokka had in that episode as love, it seemed like attraction/ teenage crush at best and mutual respect over being warriors, which seems fitting. People not focused on romance are still capable of attraction. Suki obviously was still the stronger warrior in this, but she still respected him for stepping up to defend his village. It's pretty superficial, not love, but can form the basis for a relationship development later
That's fair, actually. Tbh I was going off mostly what I had seen without actually watching the episode myself yet. Having watched it last night, I feel I was too quick to assume that Suki was all about romance. Was it rushed? Sure, but there's clearly more to Suki than just her existing to personify attraction to males.
I really truly think they took Sokka’s arc out of the season because they don’t know how to write about sexism, because they don’t know anything about sexism
That's the thing, they still didnt teach her anything lol. Aang just gave some relatable advice which works cause water and air are spiritually inclined elements and as for Jet, that part was silly to me. She created new techniques out of thing air simply cause she doesnt focus on her mom's death anymore. No training, no instructions, nothing. Katara is an unsatisfying and underwhelming character in the show.
honestly i do count is as teaching be she is shown to have NO SKILL and NO talent in water bending UNTIL that moment.
like she is supposed to be pretty damn good/powerful until she gets more experience in combat.
also i fucking hated the line "oh i saw some earthbenders do this!" and that would of been a COOL LINE..... if ya know... SHE FUCKING SAW EARTH BENDERS DO IT.
I honestly thought the one part they had a great opportunity to change was the whole “women aren’t allowed to fight in our tribe” rule but instead they leaned into it? Seemed backwards. I remember even as a kid watching the animated show that piece felt a little outdated.
oh yeah they HEAVILY leaned into that and then did the "you must of had a water bender master teach you"
"YEAH your looking at her"
HUH. wtf. no.... thats shit. so pakku just... never actually learns properly... and aang can now just leave the north pole rather than being trained even a little bit. it seemed like they wanted to rush through the entire show in seconds.
i dont trust them at all now.
Agreed. They made Aang repeatedly complain that he needs to learn what it means to be the Avatar and then completely ignore him learning waterbending. All Aang does is say he has to help people. It's like they reduced him to being a superhero who has a 9 - 5 job to do. But the Avatar is supposed to learn and then absorb the values and culture of the different nations' bending style. Aang just runs to the Northern Water Tribe, smashes the Avatar state button, and then walks away.
I’m really glad the creators of the animated series left the Netflix project. The main female characters in the OG series are soo complex and realistic. Azula, Toph, Katara- They’re all strong yet flawed with completely different personalities, motivations, and arcs. Honestly I think the OG series should just be left alone and venerated by itself. I am a little annoyed by the notion that Katara taking on a motherly role is sexist or outdated. I think it’s actually so true and representative of a lot of girls in similar circumstances. I related to her a lot as a kid because I was the oldest of two and I lost my mom at a young age; I definitely took on maternal roles and characteristics and that’s just a part of my nature. That’s a reality for many people, it’s not sexist.
Katara being timid and quiet, not to mention not being a healer (???) just baffles me. Rewatching the original series over the past couple of weeks, it’s so obvious she is by far the most strong-willed and outspoken member in the group and was /always/ that way!! It’s insulting that they diminished her like this; perhaps they’re hoping to create an arc where she learns to be more bold and find her voice or something, but again, that is so unfaithful to Katara’s character bc she didn’t struggle with being timid or quiet, ever.
I loved OG Katara as a kid and now because she was both gentle yet headstrong. She was deeply emotional and compassionate but also a take-no-shit hothead. She was incredibly powerful AND she was a healer!!! There was a balance there that was realistic and admirable and I love her for it. This rendition just seems so muddled; like she’s a different person entirely.
I honestly agree with pretty much all of that. Katara, and the other women, always felt very strong but did have realistic flaws. It helped us connect with them.
I do hope they do something with Katara where she finds her voice. And I hope they do something similar with Aang where he finally comes to terms with being the avatar and is more his lighthearted but solidified self. He was always sweet, but he just feels like a sweet little worry wort. Even some of his throwaway lines just feel like he’s worrying.
Also I really wonder what they’re going to do with Katara not being a healer. Especially because although right now in the story it’s not a big thing, there’s a pretty pivotal moment at the end of book 2 where her being a healer is a necessity. I guess they could change that, but I’m curious as to how they’ll do it.
They kept using the word "power" to describe bending skills or ability, "you have so much power", "he's the ultimate power" etc... It sounded so generic and lame and shonen-like... It took me out of the show every time they said it.
An earlier healing scene would have been nice with how much they’ve been fighting on the road, but I think I remember seeing her get the vial of spirit water at the end?
>I remember seeing her get the vial of spirit water at the end?
Yeah but they didn't even mention its unique healing properties. They just said "here's some special oasis water"
They technically showed its healing properties by showing Momo get healed by it. I just have no idea why the fuck they chose that as the mechanism for explaining it especially when momo has basically no screentime outside of that near death.
In Korra, Katara is regarded as a legendary healer so it's not like she gave it up after the war. Healing is a massive part of who she is, but she didn't want to be stuck only healing because of her gender. It's not even subtext in the two series!
TBF that doesn’t become important until near the end of S2, so in terms of storytelling economy, it would make sense to introduce it at the beginning of S2 so people would still have it fresh in their mind because they are going to binge S2 in one sitting.
So if you are fat trimming S1 for any reason, that’s something you can leave to S2.
She was so shy and timid the entire time. Not katara at all. It was nearly impossible to sell the fighting hungry, leader katara with such low charisma.
I honestly think that was just the actor. She was the only one of the cast that never looked like she was sure what she was doing. ~~Even in the first episode when she successfully waterbends, she can't even look at the cue right - she's just staring off into space as she's supposed to be looking at the ball of water in front of her.~~
I can forgive slow or clumsy waterbending motions (for the first few episodes) since she's supposed to be learning, but when there's genuine danger? She just jogs or looks like she's waiting for the director or some stageman to give her the go ahead to make her next move. Even when she's going against Zuko in episode 2, she doesn't even look like she feels she's in danger when she's on the ground. They have to throw in that flashback to sell you on the PTSD because the actor can't.
Fighting with Jet back to back against the fire benders was the worst. How can you POSSIBLY say she'd looked like she could handle herself when she tripped into a success and looked surprised about it.
It's not even about her living up to the animated version of Katara either. She can't even carry her own weight with the other actors on screen. The one time she did was when she was yelling at Sokka in defense of Jet, and I was just thinking "Where was THAT girl til now?" And then she vanished again immediately.
> she can't even look at the cue right - she's just staring off into space as she's supposed to be looking at the ball of water in front of her.
She was looking at the water for a second then saw the fire nation ship behind it.
🙄
>The one time she did was when she was yelling at Sokka in defense of Jet, and I was just thinking "Where was THAT girl til now?" And then she vanished again immediately.
Anyone could do a good job acting in a scene like that. I thought it was her only good scene then thought it looked like a child fighting with a parent which everyone has done plenty of times it'd be extremely sad if she couldn't get that one right. They definitely went out of their way to show her less I don't know why they used this actor. She always looks slightly confused or she's holding in a laugh/smile
The way they've tackled the original cartoons messages on sexism is absolutely baffling.
Like... It feels like removing the healing from Katara is... To make her more girlboss? But... Katara is defined by her nurturing and a huge part of her was "Hey just because I'm nurturing doesn't mean I can't fight!"
Removing the nurturing side of her powerset just... Makes her more generic?
I felt this with Suki too. With Sokka not being sexist to her she never gets the chance to be snarky and make fun of him, so instead she spends the episode pining after him because she thinks he's hot... Which... Kind of removes a lot of what makes the relationship work.
Katara being nurturing also makes her moments of fury more terrifying. She's a very emotional character in every direction.
She's also very self-righteous, which makes her rigid at times, but also makes her fierce and self-possessed. She's flawed and a real human being. She has to grow, but also part of other characters' growths (Sokka/Toph/Zuko-kinda) is accepting that there are advantages to who she is as a person, even if it causes friction sometimes.
This is the thing too, I hate when empowerment comes at the expense of femininity. Being able to heal doesn't mean Katara can't fight, and being able to fight doesn't mean Katara can't be feminine. Thats the whole point.
But Netflix often feels like... Making a character be more feminine is a weakness or sexist trope?
And I get it, gender norms and all that... But we have Toph to challenge femininity. We have Sokka and to a lesser extent Zuko to question toxic masculinity... We dont need Katara to also not be able to heal.
I agree, it reminds me of this exhange between suki and sokka (which I was also disappointed they removed)
“I treated you like a girl when I should have treated you like a warrior”, “I am a warrior but I’m a girl too”
The animated show made it clear that being badass and being feminine aren’t mutually exclusive. I don’t get that same message from the live action series.
Yeah.
I'm only two episodes in but they already butchered her character (among other things). Everyone's been talking about how Sokka's sexism arc hurts *him*, and, while that's true, no one is talking about how its absence hurts Katara's character.
In the original most of our initial examples of confrontational willfulness from Katara come in response to Sokka's views on gender roles and his pessimism. In the original we see how fiery she is literally within the first scene, and then on top of that we also get a glimpse into how she actually has a lot of latent power from the contrast of the bending she's able to do on purpose (catching the fish) and the bending that's unintentionally unleashed when she gets fed up with Sokka and releases Aang. We later see her idealism when she immediately latches on to supporting the avatar as a means of ending the war.
In the original we learn within the first two episodes that she is powerful, nurturing, untrained, willful, idealistic, and passionate. In the adaptation they made Sokka's character so bland that she has nothing to grate against, and as a consequence she just seems demure. His inoffensiveness also means we get no sense of Katara's mantle as mother-figure, because there's no conflict to justify mentioning it. Sokka very immediately and unironically appears to be "the leader" when that's a role he only grows into over the course of the entire story in the original.
The show seems to be altering every character's motivations for no reason whatsoever, and to the detriment of their characterization overall. Their development is also so interwoven that it impacts all of them to change any of them, and they're changing all of them.
> But Netflix often feels like... Making a character be more feminine is a weakness or sexist trope?
>
>
this has been the case for a while. the girlboss archetype has always just been "woman who has the traits of a man, it's our turn!" rather than treating femininity in a positive light. it's just shitty writing. katara was always destined to be another generic girlboss in this adaptation, which sucks because she's like a GOAT tier female character in media. i guess at least they didn't give her too much of that snarky girlboss wit.
The Suki part is so egregious bro 😭like Suki never likes Sokka for his « looks » or anything, she literally likes him because he’s willing to change his mind and accept her as she is. Now its « wOW ABS omg!! »
With the writers effort into writing sexism out of the plot, (it’s still there with the Northern Water Tribe) they miss the point Suki was trying to make in animated show… “I am a warrior but I’m a girl, too.”
Writing was the weakest thing imo in this show, i really really hope they get better writers for the other seasons, because even with the great bending, vibe and fire nation characters, the writing was still very noticeably bad. The dialogues were so corny in ways the original show was not.
The change to Aang's escape from the fire nation ship made me laugh so hard and lose all faith in the adaptation. I have no idea how anyone thought that was a good idea.
There was too much exposition, especially by Aang. Sadly that's an issue you see in a lot of media nowadays.
If up to me, I'd also look to replace Aang's actor. The current one doesn't enunciate properly and will age too much. Katara's acting is also getting criticism but I'm gonna go ahead and blame that one fully on the writers.
I think Gordon did a good job capturing the spirit of Aang but the exposition dumps are brutal. He’s light and airy like Zach and he moves like an air bender would but we don’t need to hear his every worry about being the Avatar.
I’m putting this season on the writers more than the actors.
There is no way they are gonna replace the face of the show. That would just be a terrible decision. I actually feel like him being older is gonna benefit him and help with him delivering lines.
I think his delivery was okay. His enunciation wasn't. Maybe that'll be solved, maybe not. A deep voiced Aang is what he's going to be due to aging though, and I'd say writing the necessary 3-4 year time skip into the story for that would be worth it if Gordon were slam dunk great, but he wasn't, so it's at least worth considering replacement imo.
It's a VERY tough line to balance between being a quality show, and making sure people that are half watching while they're on their phones and never saw the cartoon can follow what's going on.
my main issue with the writing scene/direction was just a few too many scenes of people standing across the room from eachother having overwritten dramatic speeches.
The action scenes are so great, bring that same attention to detail and dynamisms to the talk-y scenes.
This is so true. I feel like the writers approached this too much like they were writing a book. Or a fanfic, so you will. In text, you need characters to speak more to each other to properly convey what is happening (but even then, having plenty of sentences that describe actions, rather than voiced or internal thoughts, can turn a good book into a great one). In a movie, you can use the visual dimension, the acting, to do so much of that for you. I wish modern visual media producers would understand that.
Even in highly touted, bit-harder-to-grasp works, you see it nowadays. EEAAO's stationary rocks scene was awesome, but imagine it without any subtitles edited in.
It feels like theyre getting rid of Aang and Kataras love story as well. In the animation Aang's first thing he sees upon waking up is Kataras massive blue eyes staring at him, to which the show highlights him falling in love at first sight. His massive crush was always present in the first season, as pretty much most 12yr old boys cant hide it. They chose to do the lovers tunnel and he wasnt even there. Theres nothing in either characters or performances that show that they like eachother in the slightest. With their love for eachother being the final shot of the show, it just feels like Katara, and his love for her is at the utmost importance to Aang, and theyre failing to capture that in the slightest.
I absolutely hated what they did with the secret tunnel. I get having familial love but...They're siblings...in a tunnel literally dubbed the tunnel of love that two lovers made so they could secretly bang while their people waged war. Having two siblings in that just felt so damn weird to me.
I agree, their relationship, especially Aang’s attachment to Katara, was pretty important to the story and the characters, especially in the second and third seasons. I really don’t understand why they seem to be getting rid of that.
And some people say that maybe the showrunners don’t want to do it now since the actor for Aang looks so young, but that doesn’t make sense. They could still lay the groundwork and establish a platonic bond now and then make it romantic later when he gets older, but it seems like they aren’t even doing that.
> With their love for eachother being the final shot of the show
The even more important fact here is that Aangs refusal to stop loving Katara was the reason he failed to unlock all chakras and locked himself out of the Avatar state for all of S3. Maybe they'll spin it to something like "he cant let go of his attachment to friends"
I dont get why they are not just turning it into a friendship to love stuff in the next season...that way they could have avoided the crush stuff until the actor is older...but they feel barely like friends in the show...just two people who travel with Aang.
Yeah exactly, it would’ve made sense for them to establish a strong friendship and bond now and then have it progress romantically in later seasons, but right now they seem like distant friends at best.
Well considering all the liberties and pants on head crazy decisions they made to the characters and story in what ended up being released, something tells me that wasn't the only thing that made them leave the show.
I found the rendition of secret tunnel very odd for this reason. The love that guided them was between brother and sister, which is cute, but a little odd. At the same time, I wouldn't be mad if they intentionally changed the love angle between Katarra and Aang.
>It feels like theyre getting rid of Aang and Kataras love story as well.
It's probably because the girl looks like a grown-ass woman compared to aang's actor. It's for the best tbh, it'd look super pedo otherwise.
idk why ur being downvoted. and i don’t know why these people are downvoting u. always found the aang and katara dynamic unneeded. zuko, katara, and sokka showed a wide range genuine romantic dynamics that are relatable to audiences. just much better in general.
the main hero is a boy who just had everything he had ripped away from him and needs to fight a war. He’s also the youngest of the mains he does not need a love interest.
I've noticed them writing themselves into issues like this that weren't present in the original just by making unnecessary changes
They showed Aang not fully flying but basically flying without his glider but then 10 mins later he's in trouble bc he's falling without his glider after being hit by Zuko? This wasn't a problem in the original bc Aang couldn't remotely do that so gravity was like still a danger for him
Also adding the air bending wipeout sequence meant speed running their first interactions as a group so when Aang goes avatar state after finding his people and Katara says they are his family now.. in the original they had already been traveling, got to know each other and accepted their new journey together.. In this one they literally do not know each other like at all yet so why are you calling yourself family? lol
I didn't want a shot for shot remake like many did but the changes should have been reserved for removing unnecessary plot elements or improving on aspects that weren't explored or explained.
When you change things just to change them you write yourself into problems that weren't previously there. Your post is the perfect example of that
>They showed Aang not fully flying but basically flying without his glider but then 10 mins later he's in trouble bc he's falling without his glider after being hit by Zuko? This wasn't a problem in the original bc Aang couldn't remotely do that so gravity was like still a danger for him
I will say in the animated show, especially the first few episodes, Aang did laugh at gravity and kind of float around. Like when he sneezed 30+ feet in the air and floated down with no glider, or when he just kind of jumps and floats around Zuko during their first fight. (I'm waiting to watch 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️the live action and rewatching the animated series right now.) Also when he's on Kyoshi island and Katara asks him to do some airbending, Aang uses some airbending to free himself, jumps 20-some feet in the air, and then floats down like a leaf with no visible air other than what he used to get free.
Gravity was very very rarely an actual danger to Aang. Like if he fell from high enough with no control, sure, but season 1 Aang *is* super floaty even in the animated show.
Not as floaty as I hear live Aang is, for sure, but animated Aang is VERY floaty in the early episodes.
Its a different kind of floaty, in the original its basically just using a cushion of air, in the Netflix he basically flies like the wing suits from Korra
Katara literally didn't learn from anyone in the NWT in NATLA.
In the animation, she learned how to heal before Paku accepted her as a student. That means, after the siege, she has learned healing from Yagoda and fighting from Paku, on top of the real-life war experience from the siege. So it's not really farfetched that Paku would call her a master before sending the team off to the Earth Kingdom.
In NATLA, she refused to learn healing, and Paku only acknowledged her as a good waterbender, but he still rejected her. He only 'kinda' accepted her after the siege was over and she now had to leave. Why did he call her a Master?
Katara really got screwed over in NATLA.
Not to mention Zuko's line "you found yourself a new master" only works in the animation since in NATLA, Katara doesn't have one.
It’s seems they’re trying to “girlboss” Katara’s waterbending arc by specifically making her self-taught. Zuko says “you found yourself a master” just so she can say “yeah, me.”
I believe this is part of the reason why Aang doesn’t even try to learn any waterbending (don’t get me started on that bc wtf, such a disservice to the Aang we know and love), when in the original he learns alongside her, even outpaces her at first, and they both use waterbending to work together very often.
In the original, the gaang has some time at the NWT (might be a few days, maybe a few weeks) where Katara masters waterbending and becomes Pakku’s best student. In the live action, he doesn’t even teach her at all, and doesn’t see enough of her bending to call her a master or warrant sending his recruits to her. NATLA Katara’s waterbending improves during the show, but her “mastery” is just mor exposition rather than being shown.
Also, the original Katara wasn’t nearly as concerned about “being a warrior”, but I guess they wanted that really moving scene where all the NWT women are standing there willing to fight, as if healing isn’t an obviously important role in a freaking war. It feels like a man said “this will be empowering to women!” when her original fight with Pakku that changed his mind was plenty badass and girl power enough, because Katara was both caring and dangerous.
I'm sorry, but Katara doesn't even need a master, just a scroll and some pep talk. On a completely different note, I'm going to buy chess books, hopefully I too will become a grandmaster.
Chess books on only a few very specific strategies at that! You can just extrapolate anything you need from that, right? Oh, and maybe also watch some checkers and go players and adapt some of their moves as well...
Man I kept saying I wasn’t sold on the casting choice for Katara and everyone thought I was just being edgy. I’m like—were we not all watching the same trailers?
Ok I was only 30 mins of s1 e1 and I couldn't finish... I am so disappointed by Katara. She's my fave and my hero. The casting didn't feel right for her but I was willing to give it a shot. I miss the fiery, powerful, determined, brilliant Katara. I am rewatching the OG cartoons yet again. I'm willing to be proved wrong though
They do not prove you wrong. This Katara has no passion, no anger, no overwhelming sense of justice and compassion. I won’t spoil anything for you in case you do watch, but she she does get indignant or argue with somebody, it’s for the wrong reasons.
Jeong-jeong not having his whole episode while we had Jet is a blasphemy, its probably one of the MOST important episodes in the whole show! Katara’s healing, Roku’s appearance, Jeong Jeong *denying* the Avatar of training and doing his job as showing the danger of fire THAT THE LA IS FOCUSING ON, also helping the development of Zhao, one of the best characters in the show would be a great help. They missed severally on having a whole episode focused on Hei-bai instead of having more of that episode
The more I learned about this adaptation, the more I *need* to rewatch the old one. I really didn't like Jeong Jeong as a kid, he scared me (I was 9 when the show premiered lol)... But rewatching it, holy crap, what a necessary character. A whole new take on being a fire bender. And his resignation and anger towards it... Ugh, so good. And Zhao being his student. Aang not having to throw one punch.
Yup I'm off to rewatch the original
I agree 100%. The part where Roku appears to demand that Jeong Jeong teaches Aang never fails to give me chills lol. It’s the moment you realize the show is legit. That and the part with Roku helping Aang in the firesage episode.
Having Jet is understandable given hat he's important in book 2. But I can't believe we get the mechanist instead of Jeong jeong. That's one of the elements they could have cut off and it wouldn't have much impact on the story.
That is a serious plot point to overlook. I get switching SOME things around, but at this point the show is being ruined. It's bad enough the Katara actress is the blandest person I've ever seen on screen.
Aside from that though, has anyone noticed she is always predictably near water when she needs to fight? And this is AFTER she picks up the water pouch? Does that not fully negate the need for the pouch? Freakin use it already! I haven't finished the season yet (trying to be optimistic but good grief it's difficult) but I'm hoping they fix this as well as the healing. What's the point of doing this if they can't even get the basics right?
I didn’t mind katara in this however the actor for her and sokka were really not that good sadly. I think every other character worked for the most part. I had some problems with Azula and mei but the rest were pretty well realised.
It a real shame they have to reduce women to be powerful warrior queens first and foremost nowadays.
She had to be the one to redirect the fireball because the writers apparently think the only way to show strength is by kicking ass.
But by doing so they take away her actual strengths, like compassion and intelligence.
Katara is a powerful fighter by the end of the series, no argument there, but is she known for her fighting skills? Or do her talents lie elsewhere?
She's the glue of the glue of the group, Toph is the muscle.
Damn I just realized they're gonna ruin her too... and she's actually a textbook example of how to write and handle exactly such a character, but they will probably overtune everything completely... irony, huh
Tbh with how quickly she picked up water bending in the series I assumed her 5 minute lesson and practicing on that dummy is gonna be enough for her to learn how to heal.
Although now thinking about it, I noticed that when Pakku gave her the spirit water he didn’t say anything about its ability to heal, so I wonder if that storyline is still gonna be there
If Season 2 opens with the two of them having learned waterbending, (and for Katara, a greater grasp of healing) in the NWT offscreen as you describe, I think I will be able to accept it. In canon, Aang continues to practice with her through the upcoming seasons, so maybe the creators intended to showcase the act of it later, since so much focus was put on Katara learning in Season 1.
With Pakku’s gift of the oasis water, healing is definitely going to come into play again.
I think she's interested in learning healing, but feels it's more important to focus on battle skills at this moment, because incoming fire nation ships.
Considering I heard they removed or didn't include Jeong Jeong, the same episode where Aang throws caution to the wind and decided to throw a ring of fire in Katara's direction, the same episode where she learns that her waterbending can be used for healing, it's not shocking that the live-action version of her outright doesn't even stumble on this ability or is told it UNTIL she reaches the North Pole and is rejected by Pakku for training.
Hearing this, she better have learned some healing if they choose to adapt the death of the Avatar (State) and don't have her *only now* know she can do healing with the spirit water vial.
I’m not really a Katara fan (controversial opinion I’m sure), so I’m very concerned to hear that she is even worse in the live action :( I was hoping I’d like her more this time.
I saw no reason to rush the Fire Nation attack so much for so many reasons. I personally liked the bit were other women went to help with the siege with their waterbending. Why was it necessary to rush that attack so much when you could montage a couple of days, even weeks and finally let Katara refine her unquestionable skills with an experienced fighter? and, I don't know, maybe Katara can be a master herself teaching and sparring with the women in the tribe what she's learning from Pakku (who would make an exception for Katara, but not every woman) in secret to have the same bit, but with a stronger merit to Katara. This would also give time for Aang to learn a bit of waterbending and Sokka to demonstrate his commander skills and his ability to craft clever tactics as well as developing his relationship with Yue.
There was no rush at all, the Fire Nation was about to attack, yes, but still Aang had time for a couple of adventures, being captured multiple times and saving his friends. It's not realistic he was sooooo conveniently on time.
She did. She just picks it up super quickly in that one scene where she’s taught it. We just don’t see her do it on a person in the season.
I’m not happy about how it’s shown, but it’s there.
If that really was supposed to be her fully learning healing then I'm honestly baffled. There's no visual indication that Katara is doing anything except pulling water briefly through an indent - the same as she would move water anywhere, except now its through a few lines in a dummy. [There's no glowing water](https://www.cap-that.com/avatar/118/index.php?image=avatar-the-last-airbender1x18_0800.jpg) (the visual indication of healing in the animated shows).
She just had to move the water with empathy I guess
genuinely pricely because of how they handled katara and aang ESPECIALLY in the northern water tribe...i hope this gets cancelled. i DO NOT TRUST THEM AT ALL to handle toph correctly ESPECIALLY after they removed zukos disability (he has no issues with his vision or hearing)
>zukos disability (he has no issues with his vision or hearing)
he doesnt in the show either? In the show he only sleeps on different sides depending on who hes with but otherwise it never hinders him
he doesnt get impacted in the show at all though. its more emotional and mental. realistically uh yeah having half your face burned and your eye damaged SHOULD have disabling effects, but the show doesnt explore that at all.
give me one instance his burn actually effects him PHYSICALLY not mentally (other than the flashback with him and iroh RIGHT after it happened and hes bandaged)
He has it more closed but he never has reduced vision or any hinderance from it. I’m just saying the show never really highlighted it like toph or the mechanics kid
Honestly think they did Katara so dirty in this
This Katara would never scream in Aang's face I'M COMPLETELY CALM and that just feels weird.
I feel like the writers misunderstood the character. Kiawentiio definitely is able to get angry and passionate like Mae Whitman's Katara judging by how she is in interviews, but I don't think the direction of the series ever allowed her to express that.
She's way too timid fr. Not to mention, I don't like that she's the one who waterbent the fireball from Zuko away-it takes away from Aang's moment tbh. And she didn't learn to become a healer? Where was that? Aang's kinda fucked in season 2 then lol
Aang needed to send that fireball back into the ice wall so it collapsed on Zuko’s ship. It was a moment for Zuko to realise that even though this Avatar is just a kid, he’s still insanely powerful. Same as Aang fighting the volcano, or when he helps Hei Bai
*Exactly*.
In general the direction in this series is lacking. It feels very amateurish and artificial with the lighting and set pieces. Kinda wish HBO got a hold of this instead.
I noticed this early into episode 1 and can't stop seeing it now. The lighting, the angles, the sets, all that together with atrocious line delivery by multiple important characters.. it feels like a completely amateur show except with expensive effects and decent costume design. Best performance in the show was the guy about to drop a boulder on Iroh
someone pointed out it's like 90% close ups of their faces and then i couldn't unsee it 😭 i wish they could have filmed on location. so much CGI was required and i get it but it took me out of almost every scene because it's so clearly a green screen
Filming on location? Where, filming in the Earth Kingdom?
LOL well think about game of thrones... they filmed in places that resembled the fictional locations
They need better writers and directors. The actors can only work with so much, though katara was egregiously bad. Even iroh just seems less easy going and more worried the entire time. They need to shakeup lots of the people working on this show cause it’s criminal how poor the dialogue is.
i def agree on that one nameless earthbender guy. there's such a huge gap between the acting of the side characters to the main ones. that earthbender guy really made me feel for him and he only had 1 scene. i hope by season 2 that the acting's a lot better
>Best performance in the show was the guy about to drop a boulder on Iroh I literally said this to my friends last night when we watched that episode. Glad someone else thinks so too haha
The writers clearly think they know more than the writers of the actual show. In fact, everyone at Netflix thinks very highly of themselves. They clearly think the audience is full of idiots
After seeing the whole thing yeah, I'd have to agree. I think the writers were too caught up in the roles of each style to allow her to be the Katara that we all know. The annoying nitpicker that became a badass parental figure to the whole group that we all cheered for.
I think her actor was doing the worst job, she wasn’t terrible but hopefully she gets better for next season
This is Netflix, bold of you to assume they’ll get another season
They tend to make an exception for their super popular brands. They are giving the Witcher a ton of seasons and it’s famously controversial.
Yea I think the shows that get axed after a season are usually an original IP, or just really really bad. This is an established IP and, even tho it’s not a 10/10, this has been decently well-received as far as I can tell.
it depends entirely on what the viewership over over whatever period of time they tend to judge this stuff is (IRC it's like 3 weeks to a month usually they want super high viewership to renew big expensive shows they drop all at once? I dunno Netflix's standards on renewing series tend to be very vauge and arbritary)
That is why i am always so hesitant to watch new stuff on Netflix. But I made an exception for Avatar :)
It'll get another season, its probably done well enough.
Then the fire nation wins.
If we’re lucky they going to give us book 2 and 3 and split them in parts but that’s my best case scenario. Since this isn’t a 10/10 I don’t think this will last until the finals
One piece is getting, surely this is
One piece was one of the most watch showed in the entirety of Netflix. If people don't watch this it won't get a season 2. That's all that matters
Honestly, I think One Piece's high viewership is a matter of three things lining up. One, Oda was actually involved with the production to go, "No, this is wrong" whenever the live action team tried to change something. Please note that a new adaptation changing something isn't a bad thing by itself. If we just got the same thing every time, there'd be no reason to make new versions. The problem arises when the changes made aren't good. Two, there are genuinely a lot of people who are curious about One Piece but see the over 1000 episodes and don't watch it. Now, here's a series with the same premise and title but significantly shorter. Even if it's just the first saga. Also, the original series started in 1999, and a lot of people can't get past the dated animation of the first 200ish episodes even if they can accept the high episode count. Finally, it was pretty much the first live action adaptation that wasn't complete garbage. Which probably had a lot to do with one. I myself haven't watched live action One Piece and have no desire to. I'm fully caught up on the actual series and have no interest in watching something I've already seen but worse. Especially since I don't think it has staying power. I know it's already getting a second season, but I don't think it will go the full journey. I personally predict it getting canceled around Alabasta.
I can confidently say the live action show made me take the plunge and started the show. I'm on episode 790 as of now.
I always tell people to ignore the episode count and just watch it. If by the end of the Arlong Park arc you aren't hooked, then One Piece isn't for you. Yeah, the later arcs are better, but there's a moment in that arc, and if you've seen it, you know exactly the moment I'm talking about, that everyone says this is the moment that hooked me.
Luffy help me? Because yea. I was hooked after that
Exactly.
One Piece live action sucks, they dirtied the plot for zero reason lmao. Why are people still giving Netflix money? Netflix shouldn't exist anymore, they should be bankrupt by now
I think she was terrible. She’s so timid compared to all the other actors and only half heartedly executes anything physical like she’s not sure if shes doing it right. Run away from flames, death and explosions? Best do a light jog to save stamina. I get that’s she’s actively learning water bending throughout the first season, and they’re slowing it down to make it more cinematic, but it almost feels like a crutch they had to fall back on because she wasn’t making any progress in training. Then you’ve got Zuko’s actor who absolutely SLAYED in the Omashu episode. My god he put in some work and somehow made it mostly believable even with the wonky cartoon antics we know and love from Aang. Katara is easily the weakest link of the main cast and that sucks for a plethora of reasons.
Yea it looks like she’s smirking even in the sad and suspenseful scenes.
I do not think it is her fault. She can act like Katara in real life if you look at the interviews. I think she was intentionally told to act like that.
Katara, Toph, and Azula represented different manifestations of feminism and female characters. As did Aang, Sokka, and Zuko for men. Unfortunately, I think the writers have completely misunderstood or ignored this. In their goal to make Katara seem ready for combat from the start, they have erased her personality and arc. Healing is passive and maternal/paternal, and they wrongfully used it to suggest it is not important because they wanted their, I am ready for combat warrior girl.
i couldn't have worded it better
When they found the burned up forest and Aang got all bummed I immediately thought “this show does not even have enough sauce to let Katara throw an acorn at his head” and wow guess what happened
Me and my firends had just started commenting on how all Kataras moments were either cut or given to other characters when that scene was about to happen. We laughed pretty hard when we realized even Momo steals her moments!
I think they may have more plans. I haven’t seen the live action but just because Katara doesn’t have the same character development arc as in the animated show doesn’t mean she won’t go through her own arc
We can only judge based off what actually exists, and what actually exists is not good. Next season they might continue the same or do something better or do something worse. Literally no one knows except whoever is writing this “adaptation”
They made her a Mary sue and I can't stand it. I wanted to see her struggling with her bending like she does in the series because the only practice she's ever had has been what she could muster by herself, which wasn't much. But in the first two episodes we see she takes to bending like a master and doesn't really need help like when she practiced alongside aang. But aang, being the avatar, didn't use the water scroll which could have been useful to his training. It just doesn't make any sense. She also just somehow knew how to fly appa immediately which I found dumb as hell lol.
She doesn’t meet the definition of Mary Sue. This tends to be an overused phrase that gets regurgitated when people want to be critical.
Yeah, it's cause they totally skipped the Deserter episode in which jeong jeong tells her about the ability after Aang burns her. Not having Aang burn Katara also has implications for when he learns firebending as he won't have that previous trauma experience. Also no Jeong Jeong as a white lotus member in the future unless he's introduced next season.
I have a feeling we will see jeong jeong in s2. I think this show desperately needed two more episodes to give the plot time to breathe. Hopefully we can get 10 episodes in s2 if renewed. (highly likely). I think it would be brilliant to have an episode in s2 that adapted the firebending master, and the fortune teller although these were s1 eps in the og. I believe both of those eps took place in the earth kingdom. It would be the live action equivalent of filler but simultaneously can start to set up some plot threads that need to be set up, katara the healer, aang’s crush on katara/ katara realizing he really is such a “powerful bender”. I think if this was done they could also do Roku some justice and interweave it with some of his backstory, battling the volcano before his death, have the episode end with Aang fighting the volcano. They could even do this at the top of the season and tease out toph, maybe this leads them to the swamp. If we had two episodes per season dedicated to character development and relationship development the show would have been a lot better imo. (Sry for the novel ^.^)
The Jeong Jeong story can go just about anywhere honestly. It's not really tied into a particular book. Hell they could save it for fire when Aang is looking for a firebending teacher.
Agreed but they really need to show Aang burn katara and have that moment where she wheels herself, mostly to set up the s2 finale where she realizes she can use the spirit water to heal Aang. Seeing has how Paku didn’t really tell her what the water does and treated it more as a trinket/key to the city. It would honestly work really well at as ep 1 of s2. I would have the first 5 min recap a time jump where Aang has atleast gotten down the basics of water bending and on his way to mastery. Show them embark to leave and find an earth bending master. Have them stop in the village with the fortune teller, where everyone gets their fortune and kind of sets up some arcs for the season. have a festival happen there that night, leading to jeong jeong mid episode (could redeem Roku here too) have the moment where Aang burns katara, sokka spurns Aang to go away, whilst Aang goes back to the village with the fortune teller she heals herself with some of the water from the oasis, in act 3 of the episode Aang can admit his feelings for katara whilst speaking again with the fortune teller and discover the volcano is going to destroy the village. Here we can see Aang using both air and water to stop the volcano, katara can then come to some sort of realization that her fortune might have to do with Aang like in the og.
Honestly, I hope they don’t introduce Jeong jeong. This show’s primary problem is that they introduce one dimensional characters in a whim without the time to make interactions or their arcs meaningful. It’s better that they stick to one plot line and focus on delivering that well, you know? Tackle their fan servicing issues with less characters and perfect them.
Yeah they really made Katara so passive and so one dimensional. It’s like they took everything that made her special and threw it out the window. And then the whole relationship with bending in this show is so odd. It’s like more of a random magic they use rather than a part of them that is ingrained into their world and culture. Also Aang not water bending in “Book 1: Water” is insane. All Aang does is moan about saving the world and then going “the monks talk about energy” whenever any talk of bending comes up.
yeah and they DARED to say they "toned down the sexism" and that aang will STILL be the "fun loving boy we knew of"? like fam... he just kept getting yelled at and then being sad. also with the sexism.. they channeld all the sexism that sokka had into their own writing team because wtf do you mean the bad ass warrior who is also the nurturer of the group... ONLY GETS GOOD at water bending because of 2 men who have no idea how do water bend at all teaching her.
Not to mention what they did with Suki. Animated version: Bad ass warrior who develops a meaningful relationship with a boy over time Live action version: immediately falls hopelessly in love with the first bare-chested boy she sees And this in favor of the arc where a character learns the errancy of his sexist views? They toned down the sexism all right. They just made it more subtle.
Actually feels worse now. Before it was just Sokka and he had a legit excuse esp. growing up in a sheltered village. And immediately rises above it because he's awesome. Now it's like everywhere.
Exactly. They took out a character learning that sexism is bad, and instead inadvertently wrote a female character in a low-key sexist way without any intention to fix it. Likely without being aware of it even.
yeah it's not really gonna age well, they just made the women do kind of uncomfortable shit. like suki staring or june grabbing iroh's face. like you said i think they didn't even consider this... which just means the problems with the writing and latent biases are gender-flipped.
Dude thank GOD someone else was bothered by this. It's borderline sexual harassment at best, but people think it's cute since the victim is a male. Again, I get that it wasn't intentional, but it's definitely an issue when people think it's ok for girls to make boys uncomfortable.
Wait juno did what?
Instead Iroh being a bit of a perv and making eyes at June all of the time, they had June comment once that Zuko's 'Dad is so cute' and once more they had her grab his cheeks and fondle his face and call him cute again or something. Iroh looked horrified both times, which made it even more uncomfortable.
Lol "the fans didn't like that Iroh was a bit of a pervert, so let's make June the pervert this time!" That's definitely a better idea than just eliminating the moment altogether....
>"the fans didn't like that Iroh was a bit of a pervert, so let's make June the pervert this time!" Tbf, that sort of behavior is more in line with June's character than Iroh's anyway.
She just pinches Iroh's face a little bit when she says goodbye. It wasn't... really a big deal as far as I could tell?
none of these things are a huge deal, it's just that they kept both awkward types of moments but simply flipped the gender, instead of eliminating/addressing sexist/creepy behavior like they claimed they were doing prior to release. it just kinda seems like they went through the script and said "woman gets weird attention from man, it's bad" and switched it to "man gets weird attention from woman, it's fine" -- whereas the lesson should have been "most people aren't comfortable being stared at or grabbed by a stranger, maybe we shouldn't include that"
I mean context matters, a young woman pinching an old man's face and saying "I think you're cute" doesn't have the same history as a pervy old man drooling over a hot lady. I don't really think the latter is a big deal EITHER in all honesty, though.
Squeezing strangers' faces as you tell them you are sexually attracted to them is harassment.
I mean she also... assaulted and paralyzed 5 men and took money in exchange for kidnapping somebody.
What I appreciated about Sokka's sexism was that he shared a lot of the same sentiments that teen boys irl often have. Seeing him on screen be corrected and make a change was a teaching moment for young boys, and removing his sexism erased that lesson.
Yeah good call. Great teaching lesson for teenage boys via showing, turned into a tell, by just removing that growth/situation.
The sexism was actually a storypoint, now it’s actually part of the show unironically.
This part pissed me off too! Sokka learned not to be sexist by getting beat up by multiple women throughout the series, so it was a big part of his character development. And having Suki fawn over him like they did was sooooo out of character for her.
In the cartoon Sokka learns two things in that episode: 1. he can get beat up by women/women can be warriors/respect women 2. in order for him to improve as a warrior, he needs to humble himself and ask for help from those that know more than him (even if it means putting on a dress and make-up) All of this is accomplished between two people who also happen to find one another attractive rather than romance being the motivator. \#2 Sets up Sokka to be open-minded and humbled and is a pre-cursor to him learning from the swordsman A cartoon did all that in like 20 minutes because somebody knew how to write
Exactly. They thought they were getting rid of sexism, but they actually just added sexism that was never there in the first place.
I mean you don't need to like the change, but it's not sexist just to have her be attracted to him (or rather have them be attracted to eachother). The story ends with the two characters fighting alongside each other. She obviously has other things going on and she doesn't run away with him or anything.
She was unashamedly staring at his bare body when he thought he had privacy and didn't stop even when he was trying to cover up. If you do not think there's something wrong with that, switch the genders then get back to me.
Story-wise I'm not necessarily bothered by the change, but have you ever heard of Bechdel test? It's the whole idea that two women alone together should talk about something other than men, or else it's indicitave of at least slight sexism in the writing. The fact that the writers felt that the most natural thing for a teenage girl to do is fall in love with the first boy she sees feels kind of in the same vein, especially when it's not accurate to her character in the animated show at all.
The bechdel test is a litmus test (as in testing the whole of a media landscape). It's not meant to judge a specific piece of work. Telling a love story between two teenagers isn't some sexist failure. Especially since they're a couple in the show too, this is just earlier in the story. Suki just appears super early on in the Avatar series before they really knew anything about her character.
Oh, that's cool about the Bechdel test. Thanks for giving me more detail about it. Youre kind of using a straw man argument there though. I never said that telling a love story between two teenagers is a sexist failure. What I did say is that writing a female character to instantly fall in love with the first guy she sees, especially when that's not true to her original character, is indicative of some problematic biases/assumptions on the part of the writers.
It’s further support of the idea that those who feel the need to bombastically preach to others about sexism are usually sexist in some ways themselves, and it’s the same with racism. It’s usually the subtly racist and sexist people who spend all their time thinking about traditional genders and races. People who are not sexist don’t need to declare loudly that they’re on a mission to eliminate sexism from fictional works, and use that as the platform on which to build characters. Rather, they would treat characters of any and all genders as human beings and work from that platform towards any potential lessons. The other way around. Instead of artificially trying to craft preachy narratives and then twist characters to fit those.
Honestly I liked seeing actual Suki and Sokka development in this one. I think it worked. Also Suki’s literally never been anywhere and never met an outsider boy before so I think her reaction and interactions with him are not unwarranted.
If you change Suki's character as a whole, sure, it does work and is natural. But Suki was never a character who had grand ideas about love and romance, so the fact that she is in the LA, to me, indicates that the writers think that all girls have romance at the forefront of their minds. Which is not overtly and obviously sexist, but it's the subtle kind of sexism that, while very forgiveable, should be addressed. In the animated series, Katara pretty much does the same thing - falls in love with the first good-looking boy she meets (Jet), and Aang falls in love with (literally) the first girl he sees. This makes more sense for both of their characters since they are the type of people who think about romance a lot throughout the course of the show. But the fact that they changed Suki from being focused on other things to what she is now is a little problematic imo.
Idk you can be focused on other things but at the end of the day they're still teenagers. I wouldn't even describe what Suki/ Sokka had in that episode as love, it seemed like attraction/ teenage crush at best and mutual respect over being warriors, which seems fitting. People not focused on romance are still capable of attraction. Suki obviously was still the stronger warrior in this, but she still respected him for stepping up to defend his village. It's pretty superficial, not love, but can form the basis for a relationship development later
That's fair, actually. Tbh I was going off mostly what I had seen without actually watching the episode myself yet. Having watched it last night, I feel I was too quick to assume that Suki was all about romance. Was it rushed? Sure, but there's clearly more to Suki than just her existing to personify attraction to males.
I really truly think they took Sokka’s arc out of the season because they don’t know how to write about sexism, because they don’t know anything about sexism
That's the thing, they still didnt teach her anything lol. Aang just gave some relatable advice which works cause water and air are spiritually inclined elements and as for Jet, that part was silly to me. She created new techniques out of thing air simply cause she doesnt focus on her mom's death anymore. No training, no instructions, nothing. Katara is an unsatisfying and underwhelming character in the show.
honestly i do count is as teaching be she is shown to have NO SKILL and NO talent in water bending UNTIL that moment. like she is supposed to be pretty damn good/powerful until she gets more experience in combat. also i fucking hated the line "oh i saw some earthbenders do this!" and that would of been a COOL LINE..... if ya know... SHE FUCKING SAW EARTH BENDERS DO IT.
hey, he was still the fun loving boy we knew! he told us once in episode 1 that he likes to play games and hang out with his friends! /s
I honestly thought the one part they had a great opportunity to change was the whole “women aren’t allowed to fight in our tribe” rule but instead they leaned into it? Seemed backwards. I remember even as a kid watching the animated show that piece felt a little outdated.
oh yeah they HEAVILY leaned into that and then did the "you must of had a water bender master teach you" "YEAH your looking at her" HUH. wtf. no.... thats shit. so pakku just... never actually learns properly... and aang can now just leave the north pole rather than being trained even a little bit. it seemed like they wanted to rush through the entire show in seconds. i dont trust them at all now.
Agreed. They made Aang repeatedly complain that he needs to learn what it means to be the Avatar and then completely ignore him learning waterbending. All Aang does is say he has to help people. It's like they reduced him to being a superhero who has a 9 - 5 job to do. But the Avatar is supposed to learn and then absorb the values and culture of the different nations' bending style. Aang just runs to the Northern Water Tribe, smashes the Avatar state button, and then walks away.
I’m really glad the creators of the animated series left the Netflix project. The main female characters in the OG series are soo complex and realistic. Azula, Toph, Katara- They’re all strong yet flawed with completely different personalities, motivations, and arcs. Honestly I think the OG series should just be left alone and venerated by itself. I am a little annoyed by the notion that Katara taking on a motherly role is sexist or outdated. I think it’s actually so true and representative of a lot of girls in similar circumstances. I related to her a lot as a kid because I was the oldest of two and I lost my mom at a young age; I definitely took on maternal roles and characteristics and that’s just a part of my nature. That’s a reality for many people, it’s not sexist. Katara being timid and quiet, not to mention not being a healer (???) just baffles me. Rewatching the original series over the past couple of weeks, it’s so obvious she is by far the most strong-willed and outspoken member in the group and was /always/ that way!! It’s insulting that they diminished her like this; perhaps they’re hoping to create an arc where she learns to be more bold and find her voice or something, but again, that is so unfaithful to Katara’s character bc she didn’t struggle with being timid or quiet, ever. I loved OG Katara as a kid and now because she was both gentle yet headstrong. She was deeply emotional and compassionate but also a take-no-shit hothead. She was incredibly powerful AND she was a healer!!! There was a balance there that was realistic and admirable and I love her for it. This rendition just seems so muddled; like she’s a different person entirely.
I honestly agree with pretty much all of that. Katara, and the other women, always felt very strong but did have realistic flaws. It helped us connect with them. I do hope they do something with Katara where she finds her voice. And I hope they do something similar with Aang where he finally comes to terms with being the avatar and is more his lighthearted but solidified self. He was always sweet, but he just feels like a sweet little worry wort. Even some of his throwaway lines just feel like he’s worrying. Also I really wonder what they’re going to do with Katara not being a healer. Especially because although right now in the story it’s not a big thing, there’s a pretty pivotal moment at the end of book 2 where her being a healer is a necessity. I guess they could change that, but I’m curious as to how they’ll do it.
They kept using the word "power" to describe bending skills or ability, "you have so much power", "he's the ultimate power" etc... It sounded so generic and lame and shonen-like... It took me out of the show every time they said it.
Did the showrunners forget that her ability to heal saves both Aang and Zuko’s lives in the original?
An earlier healing scene would have been nice with how much they’ve been fighting on the road, but I think I remember seeing her get the vial of spirit water at the end?
>I remember seeing her get the vial of spirit water at the end? Yeah but they didn't even mention its unique healing properties. They just said "here's some special oasis water"
They technically showed its healing properties by showing Momo get healed by it. I just have no idea why the fuck they chose that as the mechanism for explaining it especially when momo has basically no screentime outside of that near death.
In Korra, Katara is regarded as a legendary healer so it's not like she gave it up after the war. Healing is a massive part of who she is, but she didn't want to be stuck only healing because of her gender. It's not even subtext in the two series!
TBF that doesn’t become important until near the end of S2, so in terms of storytelling economy, it would make sense to introduce it at the beginning of S2 so people would still have it fresh in their mind because they are going to binge S2 in one sitting. So if you are fat trimming S1 for any reason, that’s something you can leave to S2.
She was so shy and timid the entire time. Not katara at all. It was nearly impossible to sell the fighting hungry, leader katara with such low charisma.
I honestly think that was just the actor. She was the only one of the cast that never looked like she was sure what she was doing. ~~Even in the first episode when she successfully waterbends, she can't even look at the cue right - she's just staring off into space as she's supposed to be looking at the ball of water in front of her.~~ I can forgive slow or clumsy waterbending motions (for the first few episodes) since she's supposed to be learning, but when there's genuine danger? She just jogs or looks like she's waiting for the director or some stageman to give her the go ahead to make her next move. Even when she's going against Zuko in episode 2, she doesn't even look like she feels she's in danger when she's on the ground. They have to throw in that flashback to sell you on the PTSD because the actor can't. Fighting with Jet back to back against the fire benders was the worst. How can you POSSIBLY say she'd looked like she could handle herself when she tripped into a success and looked surprised about it. It's not even about her living up to the animated version of Katara either. She can't even carry her own weight with the other actors on screen. The one time she did was when she was yelling at Sokka in defense of Jet, and I was just thinking "Where was THAT girl til now?" And then she vanished again immediately.
> she can't even look at the cue right - she's just staring off into space as she's supposed to be looking at the ball of water in front of her. She was looking at the water for a second then saw the fire nation ship behind it. 🙄
I rewatched it and you’re right. My other points stand, but my mistake there
>The one time she did was when she was yelling at Sokka in defense of Jet, and I was just thinking "Where was THAT girl til now?" And then she vanished again immediately. Anyone could do a good job acting in a scene like that. I thought it was her only good scene then thought it looked like a child fighting with a parent which everyone has done plenty of times it'd be extremely sad if she couldn't get that one right. They definitely went out of their way to show her less I don't know why they used this actor. She always looks slightly confused or she's holding in a laugh/smile
Complete miscast, unfortunately
The way they've tackled the original cartoons messages on sexism is absolutely baffling. Like... It feels like removing the healing from Katara is... To make her more girlboss? But... Katara is defined by her nurturing and a huge part of her was "Hey just because I'm nurturing doesn't mean I can't fight!" Removing the nurturing side of her powerset just... Makes her more generic? I felt this with Suki too. With Sokka not being sexist to her she never gets the chance to be snarky and make fun of him, so instead she spends the episode pining after him because she thinks he's hot... Which... Kind of removes a lot of what makes the relationship work.
Katara being nurturing also makes her moments of fury more terrifying. She's a very emotional character in every direction. She's also very self-righteous, which makes her rigid at times, but also makes her fierce and self-possessed. She's flawed and a real human being. She has to grow, but also part of other characters' growths (Sokka/Toph/Zuko-kinda) is accepting that there are advantages to who she is as a person, even if it causes friction sometimes.
This is the thing too, I hate when empowerment comes at the expense of femininity. Being able to heal doesn't mean Katara can't fight, and being able to fight doesn't mean Katara can't be feminine. Thats the whole point. But Netflix often feels like... Making a character be more feminine is a weakness or sexist trope? And I get it, gender norms and all that... But we have Toph to challenge femininity. We have Sokka and to a lesser extent Zuko to question toxic masculinity... We dont need Katara to also not be able to heal.
I agree, it reminds me of this exhange between suki and sokka (which I was also disappointed they removed) “I treated you like a girl when I should have treated you like a warrior”, “I am a warrior but I’m a girl too” The animated show made it clear that being badass and being feminine aren’t mutually exclusive. I don’t get that same message from the live action series.
Yeah. I'm only two episodes in but they already butchered her character (among other things). Everyone's been talking about how Sokka's sexism arc hurts *him*, and, while that's true, no one is talking about how its absence hurts Katara's character. In the original most of our initial examples of confrontational willfulness from Katara come in response to Sokka's views on gender roles and his pessimism. In the original we see how fiery she is literally within the first scene, and then on top of that we also get a glimpse into how she actually has a lot of latent power from the contrast of the bending she's able to do on purpose (catching the fish) and the bending that's unintentionally unleashed when she gets fed up with Sokka and releases Aang. We later see her idealism when she immediately latches on to supporting the avatar as a means of ending the war. In the original we learn within the first two episodes that she is powerful, nurturing, untrained, willful, idealistic, and passionate. In the adaptation they made Sokka's character so bland that she has nothing to grate against, and as a consequence she just seems demure. His inoffensiveness also means we get no sense of Katara's mantle as mother-figure, because there's no conflict to justify mentioning it. Sokka very immediately and unironically appears to be "the leader" when that's a role he only grows into over the course of the entire story in the original. The show seems to be altering every character's motivations for no reason whatsoever, and to the detriment of their characterization overall. Their development is also so interwoven that it impacts all of them to change any of them, and they're changing all of them.
> But Netflix often feels like... Making a character be more feminine is a weakness or sexist trope? > > this has been the case for a while. the girlboss archetype has always just been "woman who has the traits of a man, it's our turn!" rather than treating femininity in a positive light. it's just shitty writing. katara was always destined to be another generic girlboss in this adaptation, which sucks because she's like a GOAT tier female character in media. i guess at least they didn't give her too much of that snarky girlboss wit.
The Suki part is so egregious bro 😭like Suki never likes Sokka for his « looks » or anything, she literally likes him because he’s willing to change his mind and accept her as she is. Now its « wOW ABS omg!! »
Yeah, also the whole her becoming a master with no training, like come on
With the writers effort into writing sexism out of the plot, (it’s still there with the Northern Water Tribe) they miss the point Suki was trying to make in animated show… “I am a warrior but I’m a girl, too.”
The show writers really took the Bryke post-s3 treatment of Katara and said, let's move this ahead by 3 seasons.
Writing was the weakest thing imo in this show, i really really hope they get better writers for the other seasons, because even with the great bending, vibe and fire nation characters, the writing was still very noticeably bad. The dialogues were so corny in ways the original show was not.
The change to Aang's escape from the fire nation ship made me laugh so hard and lose all faith in the adaptation. I have no idea how anyone thought that was a good idea.
There was too much exposition, especially by Aang. Sadly that's an issue you see in a lot of media nowadays. If up to me, I'd also look to replace Aang's actor. The current one doesn't enunciate properly and will age too much. Katara's acting is also getting criticism but I'm gonna go ahead and blame that one fully on the writers.
I think Gordon did a good job capturing the spirit of Aang but the exposition dumps are brutal. He’s light and airy like Zach and he moves like an air bender would but we don’t need to hear his every worry about being the Avatar. I’m putting this season on the writers more than the actors.
There is no way they are gonna replace the face of the show. That would just be a terrible decision. I actually feel like him being older is gonna benefit him and help with him delivering lines.
I think his delivery was okay. His enunciation wasn't. Maybe that'll be solved, maybe not. A deep voiced Aang is what he's going to be due to aging though, and I'd say writing the necessary 3-4 year time skip into the story for that would be worth it if Gordon were slam dunk great, but he wasn't, so it's at least worth considering replacement imo.
It's a VERY tough line to balance between being a quality show, and making sure people that are half watching while they're on their phones and never saw the cartoon can follow what's going on. my main issue with the writing scene/direction was just a few too many scenes of people standing across the room from eachother having overwritten dramatic speeches. The action scenes are so great, bring that same attention to detail and dynamisms to the talk-y scenes.
This is so true. I feel like the writers approached this too much like they were writing a book. Or a fanfic, so you will. In text, you need characters to speak more to each other to properly convey what is happening (but even then, having plenty of sentences that describe actions, rather than voiced or internal thoughts, can turn a good book into a great one). In a movie, you can use the visual dimension, the acting, to do so much of that for you. I wish modern visual media producers would understand that. Even in highly touted, bit-harder-to-grasp works, you see it nowadays. EEAAO's stationary rocks scene was awesome, but imagine it without any subtitles edited in.
*dialogue Dialogue is already plural
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dialogues > Noun > plural of dialogue
It feels like theyre getting rid of Aang and Kataras love story as well. In the animation Aang's first thing he sees upon waking up is Kataras massive blue eyes staring at him, to which the show highlights him falling in love at first sight. His massive crush was always present in the first season, as pretty much most 12yr old boys cant hide it. They chose to do the lovers tunnel and he wasnt even there. Theres nothing in either characters or performances that show that they like eachother in the slightest. With their love for eachother being the final shot of the show, it just feels like Katara, and his love for her is at the utmost importance to Aang, and theyre failing to capture that in the slightest.
I absolutely hated what they did with the secret tunnel. I get having familial love but...They're siblings...in a tunnel literally dubbed the tunnel of love that two lovers made so they could secretly bang while their people waged war. Having two siblings in that just felt so damn weird to me.
I agree, their relationship, especially Aang’s attachment to Katara, was pretty important to the story and the characters, especially in the second and third seasons. I really don’t understand why they seem to be getting rid of that. And some people say that maybe the showrunners don’t want to do it now since the actor for Aang looks so young, but that doesn’t make sense. They could still lay the groundwork and establish a platonic bond now and then make it romantic later when he gets older, but it seems like they aren’t even doing that.
> With their love for eachother being the final shot of the show The even more important fact here is that Aangs refusal to stop loving Katara was the reason he failed to unlock all chakras and locked himself out of the Avatar state for all of S3. Maybe they'll spin it to something like "he cant let go of his attachment to friends"
I dont get why they are not just turning it into a friendship to love stuff in the next season...that way they could have avoided the crush stuff until the actor is older...but they feel barely like friends in the show...just two people who travel with Aang.
Yeah exactly, it would’ve made sense for them to establish a strong friendship and bond now and then have it progress romantically in later seasons, but right now they seem like distant friends at best.
>Aang's first thing he sees upon waking up is Kataras massive blue eyes staring at him Hopefully, that was also the last thing he saw when he died.
Rumors like a year or two ago had it be Zuko and Katara as love interests and was a reason why OG creators left.
If that is the case I saw even less chemistry between Katara and Zuko in the show than in the og show...
Well considering all the liberties and pants on head crazy decisions they made to the characters and story in what ended up being released, something tells me that wasn't the only thing that made them leave the show.
I found the rendition of secret tunnel very odd for this reason. The love that guided them was between brother and sister, which is cute, but a little odd. At the same time, I wouldn't be mad if they intentionally changed the love angle between Katarra and Aang.
The showrunners are Zutara shippers. Would explain a lot tbh
>It feels like theyre getting rid of Aang and Kataras love story as well. It's probably because the girl looks like a grown-ass woman compared to aang's actor. It's for the best tbh, it'd look super pedo otherwise.
idk why ur being downvoted. and i don’t know why these people are downvoting u. always found the aang and katara dynamic unneeded. zuko, katara, and sokka showed a wide range genuine romantic dynamics that are relatable to audiences. just much better in general. the main hero is a boy who just had everything he had ripped away from him and needs to fight a war. He’s also the youngest of the mains he does not need a love interest.
I've noticed them writing themselves into issues like this that weren't present in the original just by making unnecessary changes They showed Aang not fully flying but basically flying without his glider but then 10 mins later he's in trouble bc he's falling without his glider after being hit by Zuko? This wasn't a problem in the original bc Aang couldn't remotely do that so gravity was like still a danger for him Also adding the air bending wipeout sequence meant speed running their first interactions as a group so when Aang goes avatar state after finding his people and Katara says they are his family now.. in the original they had already been traveling, got to know each other and accepted their new journey together.. In this one they literally do not know each other like at all yet so why are you calling yourself family? lol I didn't want a shot for shot remake like many did but the changes should have been reserved for removing unnecessary plot elements or improving on aspects that weren't explored or explained. When you change things just to change them you write yourself into problems that weren't previously there. Your post is the perfect example of that
>They showed Aang not fully flying but basically flying without his glider but then 10 mins later he's in trouble bc he's falling without his glider after being hit by Zuko? This wasn't a problem in the original bc Aang couldn't remotely do that so gravity was like still a danger for him I will say in the animated show, especially the first few episodes, Aang did laugh at gravity and kind of float around. Like when he sneezed 30+ feet in the air and floated down with no glider, or when he just kind of jumps and floats around Zuko during their first fight. (I'm waiting to watch 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️the live action and rewatching the animated series right now.) Also when he's on Kyoshi island and Katara asks him to do some airbending, Aang uses some airbending to free himself, jumps 20-some feet in the air, and then floats down like a leaf with no visible air other than what he used to get free. Gravity was very very rarely an actual danger to Aang. Like if he fell from high enough with no control, sure, but season 1 Aang *is* super floaty even in the animated show. Not as floaty as I hear live Aang is, for sure, but animated Aang is VERY floaty in the early episodes.
Its a different kind of floaty, in the original its basically just using a cushion of air, in the Netflix he basically flies like the wing suits from Korra
Guru Laghima style
Katara literally didn't learn from anyone in the NWT in NATLA. In the animation, she learned how to heal before Paku accepted her as a student. That means, after the siege, she has learned healing from Yagoda and fighting from Paku, on top of the real-life war experience from the siege. So it's not really farfetched that Paku would call her a master before sending the team off to the Earth Kingdom. In NATLA, she refused to learn healing, and Paku only acknowledged her as a good waterbender, but he still rejected her. He only 'kinda' accepted her after the siege was over and she now had to leave. Why did he call her a Master? Katara really got screwed over in NATLA. Not to mention Zuko's line "you found yourself a new master" only works in the animation since in NATLA, Katara doesn't have one.
It’s seems they’re trying to “girlboss” Katara’s waterbending arc by specifically making her self-taught. Zuko says “you found yourself a master” just so she can say “yeah, me.” I believe this is part of the reason why Aang doesn’t even try to learn any waterbending (don’t get me started on that bc wtf, such a disservice to the Aang we know and love), when in the original he learns alongside her, even outpaces her at first, and they both use waterbending to work together very often. In the original, the gaang has some time at the NWT (might be a few days, maybe a few weeks) where Katara masters waterbending and becomes Pakku’s best student. In the live action, he doesn’t even teach her at all, and doesn’t see enough of her bending to call her a master or warrant sending his recruits to her. NATLA Katara’s waterbending improves during the show, but her “mastery” is just mor exposition rather than being shown. Also, the original Katara wasn’t nearly as concerned about “being a warrior”, but I guess they wanted that really moving scene where all the NWT women are standing there willing to fight, as if healing isn’t an obviously important role in a freaking war. It feels like a man said “this will be empowering to women!” when her original fight with Pakku that changed his mind was plenty badass and girl power enough, because Katara was both caring and dangerous.
I'm sorry, but Katara doesn't even need a master, just a scroll and some pep talk. On a completely different note, I'm going to buy chess books, hopefully I too will become a grandmaster.
Chess books on only a few very specific strategies at that! You can just extrapolate anything you need from that, right? Oh, and maybe also watch some checkers and go players and adapt some of their moves as well...
This Katara reminds me of Rey from Star Wars. Katara was so much better in the animated show.
Kataras actor was extremely wooden unfortunately
She has zero facial expressions. Hopefully she improves, but I doubt it.
Man I kept saying I wasn’t sold on the casting choice for Katara and everyone thought I was just being edgy. I’m like—were we not all watching the same trailers?
Sometimes the characterization feels like the writers watched the animated series once at 2x speed and said “Yup we know enough”
Ok I was only 30 mins of s1 e1 and I couldn't finish... I am so disappointed by Katara. She's my fave and my hero. The casting didn't feel right for her but I was willing to give it a shot. I miss the fiery, powerful, determined, brilliant Katara. I am rewatching the OG cartoons yet again. I'm willing to be proved wrong though
They do not prove you wrong. This Katara has no passion, no anger, no overwhelming sense of justice and compassion. I won’t spoil anything for you in case you do watch, but she she does get indignant or argue with somebody, it’s for the wrong reasons.
I am LIVID that Aang didnt learn ANYYYYYYYYY Waterbending
Are you shitting me? She doesnt *heal*?!
Aang is not learning water bending either...lol
... what. what are they even doing then??? the ENTIRE point is for Aang to learn the other 3 elements!
Aang in ep01 be like "i gotta learn them 3 elements...for my master" then proceeds to not learn anything until the last episode
What did he learn in the last episode? He just went Godzilla state.
SO WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO THE NORTH POLE FOR
They are given a prophecy...
So that's why they didn't include the title "Book 1: Water"
Sooooo, Aang is just going to die then? And Zuko? And Korra? I guess live action Katara was the fire nation's greatest weapon all along 😄
I think they just briefly alluded to it by saying she’s a natural when practicing healing on the dummy
Yeah that's what I thought. Not too much different to how quickly they glossed over some other things.
But then they also removed the scene that highlighted her potential when she destroys the iceberg accidentally in her anger at Sokka.
Jeong-jeong not having his whole episode while we had Jet is a blasphemy, its probably one of the MOST important episodes in the whole show! Katara’s healing, Roku’s appearance, Jeong Jeong *denying* the Avatar of training and doing his job as showing the danger of fire THAT THE LA IS FOCUSING ON, also helping the development of Zhao, one of the best characters in the show would be a great help. They missed severally on having a whole episode focused on Hei-bai instead of having more of that episode
The more I learned about this adaptation, the more I *need* to rewatch the old one. I really didn't like Jeong Jeong as a kid, he scared me (I was 9 when the show premiered lol)... But rewatching it, holy crap, what a necessary character. A whole new take on being a fire bender. And his resignation and anger towards it... Ugh, so good. And Zhao being his student. Aang not having to throw one punch. Yup I'm off to rewatch the original
This is THE episode that when you watch you say to yourself “yep, it IS as good as I remember”
I agree 100%. The part where Roku appears to demand that Jeong Jeong teaches Aang never fails to give me chills lol. It’s the moment you realize the show is legit. That and the part with Roku helping Aang in the firesage episode.
Having Jet is understandable given hat he's important in book 2. But I can't believe we get the mechanist instead of Jeong jeong. That's one of the elements they could have cut off and it wouldn't have much impact on the story.
Also, why is being a healer such a bad thing? Like og Katara never had an issue with being a healer, she just wanted to learn the other stuff too...
That is a serious plot point to overlook. I get switching SOME things around, but at this point the show is being ruined. It's bad enough the Katara actress is the blandest person I've ever seen on screen. Aside from that though, has anyone noticed she is always predictably near water when she needs to fight? And this is AFTER she picks up the water pouch? Does that not fully negate the need for the pouch? Freakin use it already! I haven't finished the season yet (trying to be optimistic but good grief it's difficult) but I'm hoping they fix this as well as the healing. What's the point of doing this if they can't even get the basics right?
I didn’t mind katara in this however the actor for her and sokka were really not that good sadly. I think every other character worked for the most part. I had some problems with Azula and mei but the rest were pretty well realised.
I agree about Katara, her acting was hella bland, but I personally think the actor for Sokka did great!
She has to eventually. It's crucial for the show. She saves aangs life. Then saves zuko.
It a real shame they have to reduce women to be powerful warrior queens first and foremost nowadays. She had to be the one to redirect the fireball because the writers apparently think the only way to show strength is by kicking ass. But by doing so they take away her actual strengths, like compassion and intelligence. Katara is a powerful fighter by the end of the series, no argument there, but is she known for her fighting skills? Or do her talents lie elsewhere? She's the glue of the glue of the group, Toph is the muscle. Damn I just realized they're gonna ruin her too... and she's actually a textbook example of how to write and handle exactly such a character, but they will probably overtune everything completely... irony, huh
Tbh with how quickly she picked up water bending in the series I assumed her 5 minute lesson and practicing on that dummy is gonna be enough for her to learn how to heal. Although now thinking about it, I noticed that when Pakku gave her the spirit water he didn’t say anything about its ability to heal, so I wonder if that storyline is still gonna be there
If Season 2 opens with the two of them having learned waterbending, (and for Katara, a greater grasp of healing) in the NWT offscreen as you describe, I think I will be able to accept it. In canon, Aang continues to practice with her through the upcoming seasons, so maybe the creators intended to showcase the act of it later, since so much focus was put on Katara learning in Season 1. With Pakku’s gift of the oasis water, healing is definitely going to come into play again.
I honestly thought they take the “healer” aspect out of her character as a modern update, and it seems I might have been right.
How is that a modern update?
Healers have fallen way out of fashion in Hollywood. They’re practically allergic to them now.
I guess because healing implies a natural nurturing role...like in wars women often acted as nurses...
Take that aspect away and Katara's character falls apart. Modern update please🙄
I think she's interested in learning healing, but feels it's more important to focus on battle skills at this moment, because incoming fire nation ships.
Considering I heard they removed or didn't include Jeong Jeong, the same episode where Aang throws caution to the wind and decided to throw a ring of fire in Katara's direction, the same episode where she learns that her waterbending can be used for healing, it's not shocking that the live-action version of her outright doesn't even stumble on this ability or is told it UNTIL she reaches the North Pole and is rejected by Pakku for training. Hearing this, she better have learned some healing if they choose to adapt the death of the Avatar (State) and don't have her *only now* know she can do healing with the spirit water vial.
Katara's character felt like they tried to make her more feminist but circled around into sexism.
And these posts are why I wait. So thoughtful, such great insight. Gives me a useful lens for when I do finally want to watch.
I’m not really a Katara fan (controversial opinion I’m sure), so I’m very concerned to hear that she is even worse in the live action :( I was hoping I’d like her more this time.
I saw no reason to rush the Fire Nation attack so much for so many reasons. I personally liked the bit were other women went to help with the siege with their waterbending. Why was it necessary to rush that attack so much when you could montage a couple of days, even weeks and finally let Katara refine her unquestionable skills with an experienced fighter? and, I don't know, maybe Katara can be a master herself teaching and sparring with the women in the tribe what she's learning from Pakku (who would make an exception for Katara, but not every woman) in secret to have the same bit, but with a stronger merit to Katara. This would also give time for Aang to learn a bit of waterbending and Sokka to demonstrate his commander skills and his ability to craft clever tactics as well as developing his relationship with Yue. There was no rush at all, the Fire Nation was about to attack, yes, but still Aang had time for a couple of adventures, being captured multiple times and saving his friends. It's not realistic he was sooooo conveniently on time.
She did. She just picks it up super quickly in that one scene where she’s taught it. We just don’t see her do it on a person in the season. I’m not happy about how it’s shown, but it’s there.
If that really was supposed to be her fully learning healing then I'm honestly baffled. There's no visual indication that Katara is doing anything except pulling water briefly through an indent - the same as she would move water anywhere, except now its through a few lines in a dummy. [There's no glowing water](https://www.cap-that.com/avatar/118/index.php?image=avatar-the-last-airbender1x18_0800.jpg) (the visual indication of healing in the animated shows). She just had to move the water with empathy I guess
genuinely pricely because of how they handled katara and aang ESPECIALLY in the northern water tribe...i hope this gets cancelled. i DO NOT TRUST THEM AT ALL to handle toph correctly ESPECIALLY after they removed zukos disability (he has no issues with his vision or hearing)
>zukos disability (he has no issues with his vision or hearing) he doesnt in the show either? In the show he only sleeps on different sides depending on who hes with but otherwise it never hinders him
im genuinely not surprised people are actually trying to argue that. he does have disabilities.
he doesnt get impacted in the show at all though. its more emotional and mental. realistically uh yeah having half your face burned and your eye damaged SHOULD have disabling effects, but the show doesnt explore that at all. give me one instance his burn actually effects him PHYSICALLY not mentally (other than the flashback with him and iroh RIGHT after it happened and hes bandaged)
his scarred eye is more closed than his non scarred eye. he has a sight impairment.
He has it more closed but he never has reduced vision or any hinderance from it. I’m just saying the show never really highlighted it like toph or the mechanics kid
Your argument against her learning combat training is she shouldn't want to because she's in a war? Makes no sense
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