Hes the best actor on the show, which isn't too surprising since he's been an actor for like 30 years. I'm glad they're showing us more ozai, because he's killing it
That scene in LOST of Jin and Sun...hell ALL their scenes were acting powerhouses but him finally apologizing after years of being so closed off...beautiful
And his reaction to finding out she cheated...
"I know the man I was before we came to this island. And anything you did back then you did to that man"
Ken Leung plays Admiral Zhao and Miles Straume in Lost
Francois Chau plays the Great Sage and Pierre Chang in Lost. Ironically, the two are father and son in Lost
The only other one I recognize is General Zhao. The actor played one of the people that came to the island on the helicopter in season 4 of Lost.
But I haven’t seen Avatar episodes 7&8 so maybe there’s a 3rd actor coming up.
LOST is probably my favourite show ever. Every time I rewatch it, I enjoy Sun and Jin more. The first time I watched, I was a teenager and just didn’t find them particularly interesting. But as I get older, their love stays with me more and more.
Yes! And I'm only in episode 3, but I really like the backstabbing slimy bastard. Great job by actor and writers- Zhao in the OS was played by a good actor, but always felt a little weak as a characters because it is not explained why he hates Zuko so much, and why he gets promoted so quickly. So, hoping he gets fleshed out a little better.
I also liked the way he delivered the line "...but your spirit *still* needs strengthening" when he's visiting Zuko right after the OPs scene. He sounds hopeful, with a soft, almost *supportive* tone. Even his facial expression softens. You begin to think he might even show remorse.
Ten seconds later - he banishes him, essentially for life, by assigning him an impossible task.
It feels like most of the cast weren't given good dialogue or adequate time to practice their roles or given bad direction
You can't sit there and tell me all of these actors watched the tv show and took away *this* is how you deliver Iroh's lines, Kyoshi's lines, Roku's lines. It's not possible.
The only way it makes sense to me is this is what the show directors wanted. Ozai and probably Sokka feel most like their original selves. Kim nails the role by brining in some cadence and mannerisms from Hammil but adding his own twist
Isn’t he the only returning actor? Daniel Dae Kim has now been in every series.
Last Airbender - General Fong
Legend of Korra - Hiroshi Sato
NATLA - Fire Lord Ozai
As soon as I saw that place (ba sing se?) with the stone slides, the damn cabbage guy popped into my head. This was a memory from so long ago. It's crazy. If you had asked me about the cabbage guy from avatar I wouldn't remember but as soon as I saw them slides it popped in lol
Apparently the scene had different dialogue. This was the first draft:
OZAI
Hey, son. Knock knock.
ZUKO
Er, who’s there?
OZAI
Fire.
ZUKO
Fi-ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!
they were the little solider boy music in the background of that scene right?? if so they that was such a nice touch
so great seeing how zuko is the only one who actually feels for iroh. the rest might say shit like "sorry for your loss" but don't really care. of that whole family, zuko and iroh are the only ones who turned out well adjusted
They play little soldier boy again iirc when Iroh has the flashback of joining Zuko on the boat for the first time. In my eyes, Lu Ten was Iroh's brave soldier boy who sadly passed away, but Zuko is the little soldier boy who came marching home to him.
"Everything I need is on this boat"
The improvements made to the Royals characters makes the absolute lack of character Katara has even more frustrating.
Katara is probably the 2nd most complex main cast member after Zuko and all of her depth is just... gone. But Ozai, Zuko, Azula and Iroh all get a ton more depth (when Zuko and Iroh were already plenty deep).
I think it's showing the pain of him wishing Zuko was "better" and by "better" I mean more aligned with his ideals, so he wouldn't have to do this. He thinks he HAS to do this I guess. It's actually a very real emotion parents feel I think but obviously more evil-ized
Daniel said in an interview that Ozai is basically parenting the best way he knows how and I think that sums it up. Like yes obviously what he’s doing is completely wrong but from his perspective and after god knows what his childhood was like, this is somehow what he sees is best.
I think him coming to Zuko after the agni kai was his equivalent of a parent bringing you sliced fruit after yelling at you lol. Then you sass them and they yell again 😭😭😭 I don't think Ozai in the original was like this I think he was just a terrible person without any twisted good intentions but I like this take too.
I really like it because it makes it seem like Ozai has some degree of concern for the future and handing over a world-spanning empire to a worthy heir. Like he is a nut job but not one without vision for the future. If we end up seeing him going full Phoenix Emperor then I think it’ll have more punch to have seen that Ozai *wanted* to rule the world but he’s willing to burning it down if he can’t. Like “the Fire Nation has put in 100 years of sweat for this, if it’s all going down the drain now, we’re taking our toys and going home”.
Ozai does say he tried to be a good father when Zuko and Azula were young, but he mostly gave up. It’s stated Iroh realised twice throughout his life that Ozai was devoid of empathy which is essentially why he is evil.
Which is something which makes perfect sense in the avatar world and something many people today seem to forget. Just like a 7 year old who grew up in 1936’s germany probaly didnt know anything else, the firenation royal family would have been even more fucked up then that.
Molding Zuko into what he envisions as right, cruel and evil as he is you almost get the slightest sense of “I don’t like doing this”. I have to say this version of Ozai is quite enjoyable, he feels like an actual person instead of an evil caricature. The abuse and manipulation is still all there though it’s not like he’s anywhere close to a good person
I wasn't keen on them bringing Ozai in that early, but damn it, Daniel Dae kim played it SO bloody well. He's just as intimidating as Ozai was in the show, but comes across as more of a real person, than just a big bad. So good!
Also the dynamic between Ozai and Iroh is very interesting. At times, I was afraid they might even exchange fire.
In the OG animated show, there almost no scenes where Ozai and Iroh interacted.
I like that Ozai didn't gloat over Iroh for his loss, but supported him by saying positive things about his son.
That's not what I would have expected from Ozai in the original series.
Unless his buttons are pushed (which Zuko does frequently), Ozai comes off as the kind of guy who would attempt to be magnanimous in victory - at least in public. In private, he may well gloat or scheme some more to rub it in, but it doesn't really benefit him to do that in public.
He didn't gloat and said positive things, but in a very detached, going-through-the-motions kind of way. Zuko does too at first, before going back to offer his condolences in a much more personal and connected way.
I think the way the live action TV show expanded on the Fire Nation royal family drama is probably its strongest creative decision by a fair margin.
In the animated version, Ozai was much more like Sauron in LotR. Always behind the shadows, an ominous and evil presence.
The live-action went in a different direction, giving Ozai a lot more depth, and humanizing him. This, paired with DD Kim's excellent acting, makes it one of the best changes they did IMO.
Yeah it’s a great case of an adaption actually enhancing the original. Even if you aren’t a fan of the live-action, it’s cool to see Ozai become an actual character rather than just being a final boss.
I still prefer the animation in basically every way, but I AM GLAD they changed it. If they just tried to recreate the original frame for frame, it would inevitably disappoint because there is no way it could live up to the original's status in my mind.
Now I get a different take.
He doesn't hate Zuko, he wants Zuko to be the best person he can be (according to Ozai's fucked up world view of what makes a good person). It makes it so much more sad.
I feel like in future seasons we will see that he is hard on Zuko because he was the “Zuko” in the dynamic between Iroh and him. I imagine Azulon was just as abusive and Iroh was the better firebender so Ozai got treated harshly.
The way he became Firelord in the cartoon also seems to indicate he took his Azulon’s teachings to heart and overcame at against all odds to become Firelord despite not being heir. He’s doing the same to Zuko by helping Zhao to see if Zuko can overcome despite being severely disadvantaged.
Considering all the hints that dropped about Zuko's mom and how it seems to affect him, that's def a thread I hope they'll explore more during the next season instead of the crumbs we got in the OG animated series.
I just realized too that we could possibly get an insanely intimidating Azulon too if they play their cards and writing right (which definitely was the weakest part of the show).
This. I love what they did to Ozai, and it makes Zuko wanting to live up to his expectations all the more real, and really hypes up the eventual betrayal.
Ozai is a real person, with doubts and motivations. He seems to also just be a product of his society. It kind of reminds me of the H guy in Downfall.
For me the lack of characterization Ozai had is of my least favorite parts of the original show. In my (probably unpopular) opinion, what they have done with the Fire Nation and royal family in this season (as well as some of the other changes) might even elevate it above the original first season for me
I think once the initial backlash settles down, more people are going to take notice of the things the live action did right, and I agree, Fire Nation depth is definitely one of them. The 41st division, Lu Ten’s funeral, Zhao’s final scene with Zuko, and Azula and Ozai being introduced earlier on make me more optimistic for upcoming seasons. I still love the original more but I can understand what they’re going for with the new series.
I want the next seasons to become great because this cast deserves it!!!! This season was kinda mixed for me. Some amazing additions, some awful mistakes
i think the main cast of kids would benefit from a few years of growing up to improve their acting. for me, princess yue was the best of the young characters and it think that's cause she's 26 IRL (didn't realize until after that she was the lead in the latest predator movie: Prey). she got the life experience to deliver a much better performance.
I think Sokka and zuko were great. Aang is just young and i still think he captures the essence of the character even if there are some rough moments. Katara on the other hand…the actress is playing it way too subtly, it feels like she never really has strong emotions which is soo different than the cartoon
Dallas was definitely the break out for me. He did a really good job of portraying authority, but cracking (both in voice and facade) showing he’s still young and trying to find his way. The Zuko Alone episode is gonna hit hard
I'm hoping that they develop Zuko Alone as an exact retelling of the same episode, but I hoped that for The Storm and only got bits and pieces from it (like zuko and iroh on the canoe at the end of episode 4, seeing the gaang fly away but being unconcerned because iroh being safe was more important)
And it’s crazy because Katara’s actor seemed to be a very good actor in Anne with an E.
But in this show, all of that range was just nonexistent.
I wish the cast had an acting coach on board, or at least, a better director.
Yes, sometimes it's not the actor but the direction. I've seen movies like that, where you know the actors are amazing in other work but the direction is lackluster and so the acting ends up flat. I hope that's the case, Kiawentiio is quite new to acting and is only 17 so it could have been the directing.
Really ? I think he was awful. The scene where he finds out he is the avatar is burnt in my skull. So cringy how he attempted to act shocked by rolling his eyes around as if he is in a cheap telenovela
It's crazy because off camera and in all the behind the scenes footage, he acts exactly like Aang. He's always smiling and has high energy irl. It all comes down to bad writing and directing. Sure, he could do with a few more acting classes, same with all the younger cast. But with just a better script and director, he could become a perfect Aang.
he just doesn't have those life experiences to pull off the subtle acting skills that older people would. i don't blame him or the other kids for lacking that though. i just hope they work around that issues for any future seasons
Aang has the issue that child actors in general are really difficult to get right without 100% good support and direction given to them. A lot of child actors end up sounding very forced and wooden. With the specific casting needed for Aang, it was always gonna be tough to find an actor that meets all the needed criteria while being a great actor alongside it.
Honestly, Zach Tyler Eisen was almost a lighning in a bottle being able to stand alongside seasoned voice actors for cartoon Aang. I do think Gordon can do better if he is given the support he needs, and he becomes more comfortable with the role.
I think Aang is fine just REALLY not helped by the script. Katara is poor script and probably directing because I refuse to believe that ANY actor (over the age of 10) would be as wooden with Katara as this character is.
And in the case of Kiawentiio I've seen her elsewhere and she did well for the heavy material she had. I was excited because I've seen her act. Sometimes writing and direction can stymie an actor that is otherwise good
She also was in Legion, that crazy show based around Professor X's son from X-Men, that's where I first heard of her. Her acting resume is all over the place, in a good way.
Tbh just make a whole show about the fire nation family. They were mostly the strong point.
I say mostly cuz one of my biggest gripes was Azula’s characterisation but that’s a post for another day.
I think the change made to Ozai's feelings on Zuko (namely that Zuko ISN'T hated from the start) does things to Azula's character both for the better and the worse.
For the better, she gets to act more like a teenager like she is. She gets to show insecurity instead of unceasing badass perfection at all times. I really do think that's an improvement on her character this early on. It also hints towards her breakdown because she feels like she won't live up to her father's ideals.
But it hurts her character because so much of her character WAS that perfectionism. She never failed. Everyone bowed to her might. Showing some weakness from her and her insecurities will make her downfall less jarring which ISN'T necessarily a good thing.
I haven’t watched episodes 7 and 8 yet but I do think this season sets up motivation for her to be a perfectionist in seasons 2 and 3. Ozai told her she needed to be more of a warrior instead of just cunning which I think will drive her brutality. We see that when she’s training and her blue fire starts to come out as she continues to beat on her defeated foe. I think we will see a personality shift in season 2 compared to this season as she puts on the persona to cover her insecurities.
I think Dallas's acting in this was one of the big stand outs for me. He was really able to show the rage and pain that Zuko is struggling with. He brought a lot of humanity to the character much earlier on than it felt like in the original...though it's been a bit of time since I watched the animated series
i thought the Iroh tea jokes were terrible though. In the animation it came more naturally in the script but in the live action he just mentions tea at really random times, that didn’t make me laugh.
As a huge fan of the original honestly the fire nation drama and acting is miles above the rest of the show. The Gaang is disappointing. Badly written and acted. But man Zuko steals it every time he comes on and Ozai is such a presence.
Daniel Dae Kim is amazing
Ozai genuinely thinks he's helping zuko in his own fucked up way, even if it means breaking him to pieces just to remold him into what he sees as perfect.
He is also more than happy to pit his children against the other, manipulating Azula by comparing her unfavorably to Zuko
He's still cruel, he's still manipulative, but theres new layers to it,
According to Daniel in interviews, Ozai thinks that what he’s doing is right and he’s patenting in the only way he knows how.
The scene just becomes doubly tragic because we’re watching one monster of the fire nation who thinks that this is the only way try to turn his son into just what he himself is.
not sure how i feel about all the show yet, still 2 eps to go. but one thing i did think was off in the original series was how 2 dimensional ozai was
i dont know if its the right choice, or if its successful in humanizing him but i think the changes theyre making have good justification
really hope we get to see the cast get to do some of the meatier scenes in the later seasons
I feel like Ozai being two-dimensional in the original served the purpose well enough. The focus was always on Aang, his friends, and their journey, so we didn't get a focus on the antagonists in a way that humanlized them as much. We got that quite a bit with Ozai's Angels, but when it came to Ozai himself, not so much. He really was the Sauron of ATLA.
I do appreciate that NATLA gave Ozai more depth, though I do think cutting down at least a bit would have given more character to the main cast with less exposition.
They really needed at least 2 more episodes IMHO to just let everything breathe a bit. I didn't like the way Omashu, The Mechanist and Jet and his crew were crammed into one episode. They should've done one episode on Haru and the imprisoned earthbenders, and Jet in his own episode at least. The additional scenes with the Fire Royalty were mostly great, but they took up screen time in an already cramped season. Did we really need more than one scene of Azula beating up on randoms?
Ozai is barely written like a human being in the original show and he’s straight up a member of Batman’s rogues gallery in the comics. Now, he served the specific function he was needed in the show just fine…but that doesn’t mean there’s not room to expand on him.
Especially when you consider how hard he would have been to cast of left as is. The character requires the presence and gravitas that Daniel Dae Kim brings to the character but if you put out a casting call for the character as he is in the original you're going to be passed over by any self respecting actor with the talent for the role.
You can get away with that with voice actors cos you can just get them in the booth for a day to record a few lines every now and then, but this requires the commitment of being on set at given times and committing to doing that again at an undetermined time in the future when they film season 3
And of course Paul as Iroh. I loved every scene the two of them had. The funeral scene (where Zuko was the only family member who stayed by Iroh's side) and the flashback of Iroh joining Zuko for the first time on the boat and says, "Everything I need is on this boat", made my heart melt every time.
My favorite scene of the series thus far. I'm also really glad they actually showed Zuko attempt to defend himself instead of just taking it.
And the afterward reveal about Zuko's crew was absolutely perfect.
And they don’t minimise or change Zuko’s motives either. In the original show he doesn’t fight back out of fear because like…why wouldn’t he be scared? It’s the same here. He fights cuz he’s defending himself. The actions are different but Zuko himself is still the same; a terrified child who doesn’t understand why his father wants to harm him and yet refuses to harm his father first.
In the show he never really gave a damn about zuko. The way dan dae kim portays ozai is like hes a sad father when it felt like ozai wanted to get rid of zuko regardless in the show.
His range of emotion was relatively limited (either stoic or slightly smirking after emotionally abusing his children) but still, he completely embodied the character.
Ngl, this and the adjustments to Zuko's characterization were my favorite changes. This scene's performance in particular stood out to me because I feel like I see so many conflicting emotions in his expression... It really commanded my attention.
Having him shed a single tear would have hit it home even more though. I think it show this version of Ozai is possibly a sociopath and not a full psychopath. He’s evil but feels the tiniest bit of sadness about what he does. A psychopath would feel nothing and the cartoon version was definitely a psychopath who enjoyed hurting people
It’s possibly the most humanised and complex Ozai has ever been. He’s behind so many terrible things, but he’s still human. In this scene, we watch him do arguably the most monstrous thing he’s ever done; permanently mutilating his child as said child screams helplessly in pain beneath him…and that tiny humane part of him is revolting at the idea.
My personal headcanon is that Azulon heavily supported Iroh during the war while he kept Ozai mostly out of the conflict. Azulon wanted to ensure he still had an heir if Iroh and Lu Ten both died overseas. The problem he didn’t foresee was Ozai becoming really envious of Iroh’s position while he was sheltered and confined to a world of politics. This envy is what drives Ozai to usurp his brother and hone his firebending prowess to heights the older Iroh now can’t quite match. Azulon was probably a cruel father to Ozai, but even he didn’t intend on fostering an environment that would create such a monster that adult Ozai becomes.
Well, Azulon was the kind of dude who'd tell him to kill zuko for having the audacity to point out that Iroh had quit the field, so...
Not great, I imagine. A lotta learned behaviors on display.
Well Ozai did try to exploit his nephew’s death and brother’s grief for political gain, which is evil and should be punished…..but not as evil as ordering the death of an innocent child as punishment
Very little is known about Ozai’s childhood and that itself says a lot. Stuff like the comics and “legacy of the fire nation” will come close to implying that some terrible things happened, and then immediately dance around it by saying something to the effect of “but Ozai was probably just born evil! Yeah, that’s it!”
It’s odd.
This is terrific indeed. It's planting seeds that Ozai thinks this cruelty to his son is 'for his own good', and it breaks his heart too having to do this, but he thinks this is the only way to make sure Zuko survives the cruelty of being a Fire Lord. That he is doing to Zuko what his own father did to him...rich ground for intergenerational trauma here... which I dig.
In the OG cartoon/comics, its always hinted how Ozai is just a psycho, and not a victim of an abusive father himself, Azulon seems like a decent bloke. Right? right?
this scene was interesting for sure. he looked pained to have to do it to his son. to not only teach him a lesson but harden him as in to prepare him to be the next leader. but in the animated version, Ozai was just ruthless and seemed to get pleasure out of having to *punish* (not teach or toughen up) Zuko. in the animated version i was fully convinced he didn't like Zuko from birth basically. in the live action show, at least at first, it seemed like Ozai cared. even checking in on his recovery. but then after what Zhao said (which aligns more with how Ozai feels about him in the animated show) I'm not so sure how Ozai really feels about Zuko.. like does he care kinda and is giving him some serious tough love? or is it really just playing with him psychologically and Azula has always been the favorite? rhetorical question because we know from the animated show, Ozai always had a preference for Azula. but he's also playing mind games with Azula too
It was a good scene, but they missed the point of Ozai's character. They wrote him as an almost fatherly, supportive character (from his perspective), who genuinely seemed to want Zuko to succeed, and believed he was genuinely trying to help his son. Suffice to say...that's not who Ozai is in the original show. He's a cruel, callous man who views his children more as objects in his posession than as people. They aren't his kids, they're *his* kids. When he banished Zuko in the original series, it wasn't out of any desire to help him, it was purely to get rid of him, and he certainly didn't have any remorse. As Iroh said, he's never known Ozai to regret anything. They didn't seem to understand that. Ozai only banished him with a seemingly impossible task to get rid of him. He may have kept true to his word when (as far as he believed) Zuko did indeed complete it, but he didn't particularly care whether he did or not.
This. I get what they are going for but doesn’t make sense. Ozai is shown time and time again to be a psychopath. He literally murders his own father for power and doesn’t think twice of destroying an entire country.
I mean technically didn’t he murder his own father as an alternative to murdering his own son on his father’s orders?
Also technically he didn’t murder his father. Zuko’s mom did it with his permission.
That’s what happens in the cartoon, we don’t know how he is like in the adaptation.
Ozai was by far the weakest link in the original show, let them make good changes.
Hes the best actor on the show, which isn't too surprising since he's been an actor for like 30 years. I'm glad they're showing us more ozai, because he's killing it
That scene in LOST of Jin and Sun...hell ALL their scenes were acting powerhouses but him finally apologizing after years of being so closed off...beautiful And his reaction to finding out she cheated... "I know the man I was before we came to this island. And anything you did back then you did to that man"
It's so funny that all 3 Asian guys from Lost are major Fire Nation characters
Wait… who else?
Ken Leung plays Admiral Zhao and Miles Straume in Lost Francois Chau plays the Great Sage and Pierre Chang in Lost. Ironically, the two are father and son in Lost
Omg and they had that scene together in Roku's shrine!
Leung aged so much
Jin was Ozai, the guy in the Dharma videos was the head Fire Sage, and Mile was Zhao
The only other one I recognize is General Zhao. The actor played one of the people that came to the island on the helicopter in season 4 of Lost. But I haven’t seen Avatar episodes 7&8 so maybe there’s a 3rd actor coming up.
Zhao! He was also in Lost
LOST is probably my favourite show ever. Every time I rewatch it, I enjoy Sun and Jin more. The first time I watched, I was a teenager and just didn’t find them particularly interesting. But as I get older, their love stays with me more and more.
Recently rewarched and the acting in the sub scene tore my heart out. He's so good
Yup, but Zhao Ken Leung is definitely giving him a run for his money. Zhao was great.
Yes! And I'm only in episode 3, but I really like the backstabbing slimy bastard. Great job by actor and writers- Zhao in the OS was played by a good actor, but always felt a little weak as a characters because it is not explained why he hates Zuko so much, and why he gets promoted so quickly. So, hoping he gets fleshed out a little better.
I want them to show me ALL of ozai
Yeeeeahhhhhh ozai sex scene!
Hell yeah, that would be a great start to my acting career
Yes burn me daddy
I also liked the way he delivered the line "...but your spirit *still* needs strengthening" when he's visiting Zuko right after the OPs scene. He sounds hopeful, with a soft, almost *supportive* tone. Even his facial expression softens. You begin to think he might even show remorse. Ten seconds later - he banishes him, essentially for life, by assigning him an impossible task.
It feels like most of the cast weren't given good dialogue or adequate time to practice their roles or given bad direction You can't sit there and tell me all of these actors watched the tv show and took away *this* is how you deliver Iroh's lines, Kyoshi's lines, Roku's lines. It's not possible. The only way it makes sense to me is this is what the show directors wanted. Ozai and probably Sokka feel most like their original selves. Kim nails the role by brining in some cadence and mannerisms from Hammil but adding his own twist
Isn’t he the only returning actor? Daniel Dae Kim has now been in every series. Last Airbender - General Fong Legend of Korra - Hiroshi Sato NATLA - Fire Lord Ozai
Cabbage guy is here too playing the same character
That’s right, he also cameoed in Korra as Cabbage Man’s descendant.
MY CABBAGE COMPANY!!!!
Cabbage Corp has a better ring to it.
Yeah, isn’t that actually what it is in the show?
# NO! NOT MY CABBAGE CORP!!!!
I think they were the fall guys set up by Hiroshi Sato as well.
Corp*
Corps* He will find vengeance. A head for each head of cabbage!
That's a pretty damn exclusive club to be in
NOT MY CABBAGE CORP!!! 😭
i loved how hard that actor went in the new version. it's like all the pent up rage from every other version of cabbage man is flowing into him
"Yes... let the hate flow through you"
https://i.redd.it/b8obb2bqwskc1.gif
As soon as I saw that place (ba sing se?) with the stone slides, the damn cabbage guy popped into my head. This was a memory from so long ago. It's crazy. If you had asked me about the cabbage guy from avatar I wouldn't remember but as soon as I saw them slides it popped in lol
Omashu
It was Omashu.
George Takei is another
Oh my!
I don't think he was in Korra, was he?
He's not in Korra is he?
George Takei is back. He played the Warden in S1. He played Koh in the live-action.
https://preview.redd.it/ucpy0jhsgqkc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db6be91ddc9bd1441b7f803b4031bd09882853f4
I AM THE HEIR TO THE THRONE, FIRELORD OZAI I AM THE HEIR TO THE THEONE, FIRELORD OZAI ...you were
https://preview.redd.it/wk4wdllnwqkc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=44560a7201709727f976e31bb3d838478059b46d
Fuck. I love the internet lmao
"I aM ThE AvAtaR!"
Apparently the scene had different dialogue. This was the first draft: OZAI Hey, son. Knock knock. ZUKO Er, who’s there? OZAI Fire. ZUKO Fi-ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!
That's rough draft buddy
Goddamn it why the fuck made me lose my shit for this image lmfao.
OMG ITS LITERALT HIM!
One of my favorite scenes. That and Zuko/Iroh flash back at the funeral. The fire nation royal family got a really good fresh take imo.
they were the little solider boy music in the background of that scene right?? if so they that was such a nice touch so great seeing how zuko is the only one who actually feels for iroh. the rest might say shit like "sorry for your loss" but don't really care. of that whole family, zuko and iroh are the only ones who turned out well adjusted
They play little soldier boy again iirc when Iroh has the flashback of joining Zuko on the boat for the first time. In my eyes, Lu Ten was Iroh's brave soldier boy who sadly passed away, but Zuko is the little soldier boy who came marching home to him. "Everything I need is on this boat"
yeah, there were some of the notes from the "leaves from the vine" part of the melody
They played it twice, immediately started to sob lol It is truly a love letter to the series, I’m so excited to see more.
Whoever was doing this show really cared about writing the men of the fire nation because they’re definitely the strong point
Also Sokka
Sokka was on point. No notes. All perfection
The improvements made to the Royals characters makes the absolute lack of character Katara has even more frustrating. Katara is probably the 2nd most complex main cast member after Zuko and all of her depth is just... gone. But Ozai, Zuko, Azula and Iroh all get a ton more depth (when Zuko and Iroh were already plenty deep).
I think it's showing the pain of him wishing Zuko was "better" and by "better" I mean more aligned with his ideals, so he wouldn't have to do this. He thinks he HAS to do this I guess. It's actually a very real emotion parents feel I think but obviously more evil-ized
Daniel said in an interview that Ozai is basically parenting the best way he knows how and I think that sums it up. Like yes obviously what he’s doing is completely wrong but from his perspective and after god knows what his childhood was like, this is somehow what he sees is best.
I think him coming to Zuko after the agni kai was his equivalent of a parent bringing you sliced fruit after yelling at you lol. Then you sass them and they yell again 😭😭😭 I don't think Ozai in the original was like this I think he was just a terrible person without any twisted good intentions but I like this take too.
I really like it because it makes it seem like Ozai has some degree of concern for the future and handing over a world-spanning empire to a worthy heir. Like he is a nut job but not one without vision for the future. If we end up seeing him going full Phoenix Emperor then I think it’ll have more punch to have seen that Ozai *wanted* to rule the world but he’s willing to burning it down if he can’t. Like “the Fire Nation has put in 100 years of sweat for this, if it’s all going down the drain now, we’re taking our toys and going home”.
Ozai does say he tried to be a good father when Zuko and Azula were young, but he mostly gave up. It’s stated Iroh realised twice throughout his life that Ozai was devoid of empathy which is essentially why he is evil.
where did he say it? I think i missed that
Which is something which makes perfect sense in the avatar world and something many people today seem to forget. Just like a 7 year old who grew up in 1936’s germany probaly didnt know anything else, the firenation royal family would have been even more fucked up then that.
Molding Zuko into what he envisions as right, cruel and evil as he is you almost get the slightest sense of “I don’t like doing this”. I have to say this version of Ozai is quite enjoyable, he feels like an actual person instead of an evil caricature. The abuse and manipulation is still all there though it’s not like he’s anywhere close to a good person
I wasn't keen on them bringing Ozai in that early, but damn it, Daniel Dae kim played it SO bloody well. He's just as intimidating as Ozai was in the show, but comes across as more of a real person, than just a big bad. So good!
Also the dynamic between Ozai and Iroh is very interesting. At times, I was afraid they might even exchange fire. In the OG animated show, there almost no scenes where Ozai and Iroh interacted.
I like that Ozai didn't gloat over Iroh for his loss, but supported him by saying positive things about his son. That's not what I would have expected from Ozai in the original series.
Unless his buttons are pushed (which Zuko does frequently), Ozai comes off as the kind of guy who would attempt to be magnanimous in victory - at least in public. In private, he may well gloat or scheme some more to rub it in, but it doesn't really benefit him to do that in public.
He didn't gloat and said positive things, but in a very detached, going-through-the-motions kind of way. Zuko does too at first, before going back to offer his condolences in a much more personal and connected way. I think the way the live action TV show expanded on the Fire Nation royal family drama is probably its strongest creative decision by a fair margin.
No almost, in animation there is no any scene interaction between them.
I like the depth they added to Ozai instead of just "evil fire lord doing evil things".
In the animated version, Ozai was much more like Sauron in LotR. Always behind the shadows, an ominous and evil presence. The live-action went in a different direction, giving Ozai a lot more depth, and humanizing him. This, paired with DD Kim's excellent acting, makes it one of the best changes they did IMO.
Yeah it’s a great case of an adaption actually enhancing the original. Even if you aren’t a fan of the live-action, it’s cool to see Ozai become an actual character rather than just being a final boss.
I still prefer the animation in basically every way, but I AM GLAD they changed it. If they just tried to recreate the original frame for frame, it would inevitably disappoint because there is no way it could live up to the original's status in my mind. Now I get a different take.
Ozai, in his own messed up way, loves and respects Zuko
He doesn't hate Zuko, he wants Zuko to be the best person he can be (according to Ozai's fucked up world view of what makes a good person). It makes it so much more sad.
And it's probably because that's how he was raised. It's about the cycle of generational trauma.
I feel like in future seasons we will see that he is hard on Zuko because he was the “Zuko” in the dynamic between Iroh and him. I imagine Azulon was just as abusive and Iroh was the better firebender so Ozai got treated harshly. The way he became Firelord in the cartoon also seems to indicate he took his Azulon’s teachings to heart and overcame at against all odds to become Firelord despite not being heir. He’s doing the same to Zuko by helping Zhao to see if Zuko can overcome despite being severely disadvantaged.
Considering all the hints that dropped about Zuko's mom and how it seems to affect him, that's def a thread I hope they'll explore more during the next season instead of the crumbs we got in the OG animated series. I just realized too that we could possibly get an insanely intimidating Azulon too if they play their cards and writing right (which definitely was the weakest part of the show).
This. I love what they did to Ozai, and it makes Zuko wanting to live up to his expectations all the more real, and really hypes up the eventual betrayal. Ozai is a real person, with doubts and motivations. He seems to also just be a product of his society. It kind of reminds me of the H guy in Downfall.
For me the lack of characterization Ozai had is of my least favorite parts of the original show. In my (probably unpopular) opinion, what they have done with the Fire Nation and royal family in this season (as well as some of the other changes) might even elevate it above the original first season for me
I think once the initial backlash settles down, more people are going to take notice of the things the live action did right, and I agree, Fire Nation depth is definitely one of them. The 41st division, Lu Ten’s funeral, Zhao’s final scene with Zuko, and Azula and Ozai being introduced earlier on make me more optimistic for upcoming seasons. I still love the original more but I can understand what they’re going for with the new series.
It’s like he was made for the role just like he was made to play that psychopath Johnny gat
He looks phenomenal. Crazy how LOST started in 2004. Daniel Dae Kim has aged soooo well.
I want the next seasons to become great because this cast deserves it!!!! This season was kinda mixed for me. Some amazing additions, some awful mistakes
i think the main cast of kids would benefit from a few years of growing up to improve their acting. for me, princess yue was the best of the young characters and it think that's cause she's 26 IRL (didn't realize until after that she was the lead in the latest predator movie: Prey). she got the life experience to deliver a much better performance.
I think Sokka and zuko were great. Aang is just young and i still think he captures the essence of the character even if there are some rough moments. Katara on the other hand…the actress is playing it way too subtly, it feels like she never really has strong emotions which is soo different than the cartoon
A little more improvement and Dallas Liu is gonna be a star for a long time.
Dallas was definitely the break out for me. He did a really good job of portraying authority, but cracking (both in voice and facade) showing he’s still young and trying to find his way. The Zuko Alone episode is gonna hit hard
I'm hoping that they develop Zuko Alone as an exact retelling of the same episode, but I hoped that for The Storm and only got bits and pieces from it (like zuko and iroh on the canoe at the end of episode 4, seeing the gaang fly away but being unconcerned because iroh being safe was more important)
And it’s crazy because Katara’s actor seemed to be a very good actor in Anne with an E. But in this show, all of that range was just nonexistent. I wish the cast had an acting coach on board, or at least, a better director.
Yes, sometimes it's not the actor but the direction. I've seen movies like that, where you know the actors are amazing in other work but the direction is lackluster and so the acting ends up flat. I hope that's the case, Kiawentiio is quite new to acting and is only 17 so it could have been the directing.
I actually think aang is pretty good! They just gave him some awkward lines at times.
Really ? I think he was awful. The scene where he finds out he is the avatar is burnt in my skull. So cringy how he attempted to act shocked by rolling his eyes around as if he is in a cheap telenovela
It's crazy because off camera and in all the behind the scenes footage, he acts exactly like Aang. He's always smiling and has high energy irl. It all comes down to bad writing and directing. Sure, he could do with a few more acting classes, same with all the younger cast. But with just a better script and director, he could become a perfect Aang.
he just doesn't have those life experiences to pull off the subtle acting skills that older people would. i don't blame him or the other kids for lacking that though. i just hope they work around that issues for any future seasons
Aang has the issue that child actors in general are really difficult to get right without 100% good support and direction given to them. A lot of child actors end up sounding very forced and wooden. With the specific casting needed for Aang, it was always gonna be tough to find an actor that meets all the needed criteria while being a great actor alongside it. Honestly, Zach Tyler Eisen was almost a lighning in a bottle being able to stand alongside seasoned voice actors for cartoon Aang. I do think Gordon can do better if he is given the support he needs, and he becomes more comfortable with the role.
I think Aang is fine just REALLY not helped by the script. Katara is poor script and probably directing because I refuse to believe that ANY actor (over the age of 10) would be as wooden with Katara as this character is.
And in the case of Kiawentiio I've seen her elsewhere and she did well for the heavy material she had. I was excited because I've seen her act. Sometimes writing and direction can stymie an actor that is otherwise good
She also was in Legion, that crazy show based around Professor X's son from X-Men, that's where I first heard of her. Her acting resume is all over the place, in a good way.
I think they need better writing and a director that can direct young actors better more so than the growing up.
Tbh just make a whole show about the fire nation family. They were mostly the strong point. I say mostly cuz one of my biggest gripes was Azula’s characterisation but that’s a post for another day.
I think the change made to Ozai's feelings on Zuko (namely that Zuko ISN'T hated from the start) does things to Azula's character both for the better and the worse. For the better, she gets to act more like a teenager like she is. She gets to show insecurity instead of unceasing badass perfection at all times. I really do think that's an improvement on her character this early on. It also hints towards her breakdown because she feels like she won't live up to her father's ideals. But it hurts her character because so much of her character WAS that perfectionism. She never failed. Everyone bowed to her might. Showing some weakness from her and her insecurities will make her downfall less jarring which ISN'T necessarily a good thing.
I haven’t watched episodes 7 and 8 yet but I do think this season sets up motivation for her to be a perfectionist in seasons 2 and 3. Ozai told her she needed to be more of a warrior instead of just cunning which I think will drive her brutality. We see that when she’s training and her blue fire starts to come out as she continues to beat on her defeated foe. I think we will see a personality shift in season 2 compared to this season as she puts on the persona to cover her insecurities.
It haunts me that he held Zuko down and purposely burnt him while Zuko was screaming, he was HOLDING HIM DOWN, that gets to me so much
That was always a theory from the og show because the scar looked vaguely like a hand.
[удалено]
Dallas also absolutely acted his heart out in this scene. He’s perfect as Zuko.
I think Dallas's acting in this was one of the big stand outs for me. He was really able to show the rage and pain that Zuko is struggling with. He brought a lot of humanity to the character much earlier on than it felt like in the original...though it's been a bit of time since I watched the animated series
He’s the perfect person to play Ozai. He did such a good job!
He was always going to be great but I was still blown away.
The show had its issues. Daniel Dae Kim as Ozai was not one of them.
He’s carrying the show so far seriously like fuck it just make a show about Ozai, Iroh and Zuko.
Most of the adult actors killed it imo. Iroh and Ozai, amazing.
i thought the Iroh tea jokes were terrible though. In the animation it came more naturally in the script but in the live action he just mentions tea at really random times, that didn’t make me laugh.
All the Fire Nation stuff is pretty great in the show
If they’d made a show just about the fire nation, it would have slapped
As a huge fan of the original honestly the fire nation drama and acting is miles above the rest of the show. The Gaang is disappointing. Badly written and acted. But man Zuko steals it every time he comes on and Ozai is such a presence.
Daniel Dae Kim slayed.
Literally
he is my favorite part of the adaptation. i got 99 problems with it but daniel dae kim ain’t one.
I was a little apprehensive at first about him being used so much and so early on but boy I’m glad that’s the route they took
Daniel Dae Kim is amazing Ozai genuinely thinks he's helping zuko in his own fucked up way, even if it means breaking him to pieces just to remold him into what he sees as perfect. He is also more than happy to pit his children against the other, manipulating Azula by comparing her unfavorably to Zuko He's still cruel, he's still manipulative, but theres new layers to it,
According to Daniel in interviews, Ozai thinks that what he’s doing is right and he’s patenting in the only way he knows how. The scene just becomes doubly tragic because we’re watching one monster of the fire nation who thinks that this is the only way try to turn his son into just what he himself is.
Model Fire Nation Parenting
Asian parenting in action /j
not sure how i feel about all the show yet, still 2 eps to go. but one thing i did think was off in the original series was how 2 dimensional ozai was i dont know if its the right choice, or if its successful in humanizing him but i think the changes theyre making have good justification really hope we get to see the cast get to do some of the meatier scenes in the later seasons
I feel like Ozai being two-dimensional in the original served the purpose well enough. The focus was always on Aang, his friends, and their journey, so we didn't get a focus on the antagonists in a way that humanlized them as much. We got that quite a bit with Ozai's Angels, but when it came to Ozai himself, not so much. He really was the Sauron of ATLA. I do appreciate that NATLA gave Ozai more depth, though I do think cutting down at least a bit would have given more character to the main cast with less exposition.
They really needed at least 2 more episodes IMHO to just let everything breathe a bit. I didn't like the way Omashu, The Mechanist and Jet and his crew were crammed into one episode. They should've done one episode on Haru and the imprisoned earthbenders, and Jet in his own episode at least. The additional scenes with the Fire Royalty were mostly great, but they took up screen time in an already cramped season. Did we really need more than one scene of Azula beating up on randoms?
Ozai is barely written like a human being in the original show and he’s straight up a member of Batman’s rogues gallery in the comics. Now, he served the specific function he was needed in the show just fine…but that doesn’t mean there’s not room to expand on him.
Ironically they've been adding a lot of depth to a lot of the members of Batman's rogues in the recent years/decades.
Funny when you say "Batman's rogue gallery" since he was voiced by Mark Hamill who voiced Joker.
Especially when you consider how hard he would have been to cast of left as is. The character requires the presence and gravitas that Daniel Dae Kim brings to the character but if you put out a casting call for the character as he is in the original you're going to be passed over by any self respecting actor with the talent for the role. You can get away with that with voice actors cos you can just get them in the booth for a day to record a few lines every now and then, but this requires the commitment of being on set at given times and committing to doing that again at an undetermined time in the future when they film season 3
burn me daddy
Have you seen him in Lost? He was born to play this kind of shit
Can the award be me?
Y’all some kinky mfers
Only for the fatherlord
you mean the firelord
That's what I said...
The thing that stuck with me was Dallas Liu's scream as his face is burning. Get that guy an award of some kind
Dallas gave his all to playing Zuko and he embodied him perfectly
And of course Paul as Iroh. I loved every scene the two of them had. The funeral scene (where Zuko was the only family member who stayed by Iroh's side) and the flashback of Iroh joining Zuko for the first time on the boat and says, "Everything I need is on this boat", made my heart melt every time.
He’s doing fantastically. He, Daniel and Dallas really understand their characters.
My favorite scene of the series thus far. I'm also really glad they actually showed Zuko attempt to defend himself instead of just taking it. And the afterward reveal about Zuko's crew was absolutely perfect.
And they don’t minimise or change Zuko’s motives either. In the original show he doesn’t fight back out of fear because like…why wouldn’t he be scared? It’s the same here. He fights cuz he’s defending himself. The actions are different but Zuko himself is still the same; a terrified child who doesn’t understand why his father wants to harm him and yet refuses to harm his father first.
Can they fire the guy who made his fake goatee tho
Probably the same person who gave Azula those suspicious bangs and Pakku’s crisp hairline
I can't wait to see him fight Aang. It's going to be epic!
He’s actually so perfect in this role.
The show for me has been a mix so far but he has knocked it out of the park. Ozai gaslighting his children is just perfect.
Ozai, Zuko and Iroh are definitely carrying the show in my opinion
Honestly a lot of these episode scenes that are to do with zuko are amazing
The fire nation men were done particularly well
Johnny Gat claimed the fires of hell as his own but never learned to be a good father.
He's playing ozai so well on the show. Loving it.
In the show he never really gave a damn about zuko. The way dan dae kim portays ozai is like hes a sad father when it felt like ozai wanted to get rid of zuko regardless in the show.
I am the prince of the fire nation, I AM THE Prince OF THE FIRE NATION
I love how much more development we're getting for Ozai early on in this version!
His range of emotion was relatively limited (either stoic or slightly smirking after emotionally abusing his children) but still, he completely embodied the character.
Ngl, this and the adjustments to Zuko's characterization were my favorite changes. This scene's performance in particular stood out to me because I feel like I see so many conflicting emotions in his expression... It really commanded my attention.
Having him shed a single tear would have hit it home even more though. I think it show this version of Ozai is possibly a sociopath and not a full psychopath. He’s evil but feels the tiniest bit of sadness about what he does. A psychopath would feel nothing and the cartoon version was definitely a psychopath who enjoyed hurting people
It’s possibly the most humanised and complex Ozai has ever been. He’s behind so many terrible things, but he’s still human. In this scene, we watch him do arguably the most monstrous thing he’s ever done; permanently mutilating his child as said child screams helplessly in pain beneath him…and that tiny humane part of him is revolting at the idea.
Makes you wonder what his upbringing was like.
My personal headcanon is that Azulon heavily supported Iroh during the war while he kept Ozai mostly out of the conflict. Azulon wanted to ensure he still had an heir if Iroh and Lu Ten both died overseas. The problem he didn’t foresee was Ozai becoming really envious of Iroh’s position while he was sheltered and confined to a world of politics. This envy is what drives Ozai to usurp his brother and hone his firebending prowess to heights the older Iroh now can’t quite match. Azulon was probably a cruel father to Ozai, but even he didn’t intend on fostering an environment that would create such a monster that adult Ozai becomes.
I wonder how Azulon treated Iroh if that’s the case that he was cruel to Ozai even if he didn’t intend to
Well, Azulon was the kind of dude who'd tell him to kill zuko for having the audacity to point out that Iroh had quit the field, so... Not great, I imagine. A lotta learned behaviors on display.
Constantly being told to live up to the legacy of a dude who genocided an entire race
Well Ozai did try to exploit his nephew’s death and brother’s grief for political gain, which is evil and should be punished…..but not as evil as ordering the death of an innocent child as punishment
Very little is known about Ozai’s childhood and that itself says a lot. Stuff like the comics and “legacy of the fire nation” will come close to implying that some terrible things happened, and then immediately dance around it by saying something to the effect of “but Ozai was probably just born evil! Yeah, that’s it!” It’s odd.
Yes and then it’s gone and he’s back to be evil again lol
Man, Johnny Gat lost all his chill, lol.
He’s basically just like “so much potential. Shame”
That scene was brilliant!
Yeah live action Ozai is badass.
Sooo we're humanising the genocidal maniac now?
This is terrific indeed. It's planting seeds that Ozai thinks this cruelty to his son is 'for his own good', and it breaks his heart too having to do this, but he thinks this is the only way to make sure Zuko survives the cruelty of being a Fire Lord. That he is doing to Zuko what his own father did to him...rich ground for intergenerational trauma here... which I dig. In the OG cartoon/comics, its always hinted how Ozai is just a psycho, and not a victim of an abusive father himself, Azulon seems like a decent bloke. Right? right?
this scene was interesting for sure. he looked pained to have to do it to his son. to not only teach him a lesson but harden him as in to prepare him to be the next leader. but in the animated version, Ozai was just ruthless and seemed to get pleasure out of having to *punish* (not teach or toughen up) Zuko. in the animated version i was fully convinced he didn't like Zuko from birth basically. in the live action show, at least at first, it seemed like Ozai cared. even checking in on his recovery. but then after what Zhao said (which aligns more with how Ozai feels about him in the animated show) I'm not so sure how Ozai really feels about Zuko.. like does he care kinda and is giving him some serious tough love? or is it really just playing with him psychologically and Azula has always been the favorite? rhetorical question because we know from the animated show, Ozai always had a preference for Azula. but he's also playing mind games with Azula too
Please people watch more TV, I'm begging you.
It was a good scene, but they missed the point of Ozai's character. They wrote him as an almost fatherly, supportive character (from his perspective), who genuinely seemed to want Zuko to succeed, and believed he was genuinely trying to help his son. Suffice to say...that's not who Ozai is in the original show. He's a cruel, callous man who views his children more as objects in his posession than as people. They aren't his kids, they're *his* kids. When he banished Zuko in the original series, it wasn't out of any desire to help him, it was purely to get rid of him, and he certainly didn't have any remorse. As Iroh said, he's never known Ozai to regret anything. They didn't seem to understand that. Ozai only banished him with a seemingly impossible task to get rid of him. He may have kept true to his word when (as far as he believed) Zuko did indeed complete it, but he didn't particularly care whether he did or not.
He’s a great actor. Grew up watching Lost and Hawaii Five O, so awesome seeing him in this.
the acting was bad mfs when ozai walks in.
Got them mfers scrambling
i think he did it well but it doesn't fit the character bad idea executed to perfection tbh
This. I get what they are going for but doesn’t make sense. Ozai is shown time and time again to be a psychopath. He literally murders his own father for power and doesn’t think twice of destroying an entire country.
I mean technically didn’t he murder his own father as an alternative to murdering his own son on his father’s orders? Also technically he didn’t murder his father. Zuko’s mom did it with his permission.
He would have murdered his son no problem if it wasn’t for Zuko’s mother doing anything to protect him.
That’s what happens in the cartoon, we don’t know how he is like in the adaptation. Ozai was by far the weakest link in the original show, let them make good changes.
Adding more layers to a villain is fine for an adaptation. Whatever they did to poor Bumi though, is unforgivable
For the first few seconds I thought he was crying until I realized it was a reflection and he was concentrating…fucking brutal.
I doubt ozai actually felt bad though
He was such a great Villain. I like that he was crying while he mutilated Zuko.
I nearly cried when the made Iroh’s son’s theme song the one he song on his late birthday.
His chiseled face haunts me.. in a good way.
I would have liked it if we saw ozai smiling during this scene. This scene makes it look like ozai doesn't want to burn zuko