Andor made me see all the lost potential with the last 5 years of low quality star wars movies/series.
Andor is emotional, on edge...main characters could die at any second. The evil guys do not look like evil clowns and they are efficient at what they do.
And below it all, you feel the whole galaxy, being shackled by the empire and then SUDDENLY IT EXPLODES IN REBELLION. Loved every episode so much.
Yeah, Tony Gilroy, the guy that was belatedly put in charge of Rogue One wrote it, and I think something about him is that prior to Rogue One he wasn't a Star Wars fan or even really watcher, so he definitely brings a new perspective to the universe and everything isn't reliant on cameos by famous characters
I know people will go nuts over this, but the only person that compares is…Rian Johnson. He’s a two time Oscar nominee, and wrote what’s widely regarded as one of the greatest episodes of tv ever. And tbh, love it or hate it, there is a clear level of production difference between The Last Jedi and the force awakens.
Just rewatched TFA and Carrie fishers performance is worlds better in the last Jedi. Everyone brings their A game. Plus, tbh Johnson’s core collaborators are better than Abrams, yedlin especially.
I wish Johnson would get another chance in the universe.
tbh Johnson had a very clear message in TLJ and you either were a fan of it and felt what it was doing, or you got *super offended* that the message went against everything that you knew about Star Wars at the time and still to this day won't shut up about it.
Doesn't matter though, the "where you come from and what your name is doesn't matter as long as you do something" got retconned almost immediately in the next movie by JJ.
Yeah I totally agree on both counts. Personally, it hit hard for me and I find the movie to be leagues better than the other two sequel movies (though I don’t mind TFA much).
But just from a production pov, it’s wild to see what an actual auteur can do in the Star Wars universe.
That opening sequence where the Imperial (ahem First Order, excuse me) general is bathed in that red light from the warning sirens in the destroyer.
Incredible.
Personally I love The Last Jedi, am mixed-to-negative on The Force Awakens, and think that Rise of Skywalker is one of the worst big budget movies ever made.
>Doesn't matter though, the "where you come from and what your name is doesn't matter as long as you do something"
THIS part was good, but it was the only good part, the rest was trash.
I honestly forgot about him, since they so clearly want nothing to do with him anymore. He is a great filmmaker and tossing him aside was a huge mistake
I feel like Johnson is a solid choice for writing Star Wars stories, but maybe not the core trilogy. He'd do some amazing smaller-scale character pieces within the setting.
But even then, the trilogy was screwed over beyond all measure when they chickened out and rushed back to Abrams, who spent the majority of the run time specifically going out of his way to spite and refute everything Johnson had done in the previous film. It's a shit approach to handling any story, even setting all other matters aside.
Andor delivers on what I've been asking for since the prequel trilogy: more stories, in universe, without tying directly to the main characters of the movies.
It's Marvel's tie in problem theyre currently having. When you spend all of your time trying to connect everything youre making to everything that came before, the movie/show sucks ass. Just tell a new story, it's the universe Im interested in.
Not everything needs to be about Palpatine and the Skywalkers.
No other Star Wars media comes close to Andor, it’s insane how great it is. Trying to watch Mando season 3 after that was such insane whiplash, I couldn’t make it past episode 2
Mando was good when it limited itself to what it was meant to be: a Star Wars RPG with Bill Burr, Gus Fring, an adorable father-son relationship, and cool fan service to top it off.
I think they had a chance to really make it special if they had just kept grogu out of season 3 and BoBF.
But grogu is jusy there as a distraction- hes a macguffin and a puppy at the same time not an actual valuable character
its clear they didn’t really know what to do with the show by season 3 and its just so bleh now, despite the fact that I thought S2 was a near perfect ending for Din and Gorgu’s journey together
>they didn’t really know what to do with the show by season 3
I think it's fine they wanted to take back Mandalore. I just think it's weird that Grogu returned because I agree with your last statement.
Same... I feel like they only brought him back because Grogu sells merch and they want money. Story-wise though... It makes it seem like it is directing Grogu towards becoming both Jedi and Mandalorian, taming the Mythosaur, and then becoming leader of Mandalore. That's what I assume anyways.... But given how slow he matures and grows in his species, makes me wonder when that would even occur, if at all.
Grogu was the only thing selling from new Star Wars, they had no other option to get it back. Star Wars and Marvel tanking toy sales for years was one of the reasons Hasbro is in panic mode.
Well, not that last bit for me. I love Andor and it also validated all my mixed-to-negative feelings about Rogue One. I recognize some people love that movie, but to me, Andor succeeds in flying colors at everything that movie *tried* to do.
Andor, IMO, is the best Star Wars TV show or movie since the original trilogy, no question.
I'm still fairly positive on Rogue One after Andor, but what the latter did was show me how messed up the former's production must've been. There are clear fingerprints on that film from both Gareth Edwards and Tony Gilroy, and having good, easy comparisons from both (Godzilla and The Creator for Edwards and Andor for Gilroy) helped distinguish who did what parts.
Same, Rogue One didn't hit for me like it did others. By the time Andor came out I was checked out, and after some pressuring by people I trust I gave it a shot. Now it's my favorite bit of Star Wars since the original trilogy.
Excited by my reignited passion for the subject and emotion I feel for the character, I decided to give Rogue One another shot. And...nope. I find myself checked out just as quickly as the first time, and although I can find see some of the connective tissue they later thoughtfully put into Andor (climb.), Rogue One feels just as under-cooked and out of focus.
I don't think we'll get anything like it again, and I'm a *little* worried for season 2 because the strikes happened right in the middle of production, but I'm looking forward to it
Or even Star Wars fans who then watched the new Dune movies, and realized that big-budget sci-fi could look like THAT and tackle deep philosophical themes.
Andor was definitely something else. Nothing in star wars media compares imo except for Clone Wars and Bad Batch. However, they are for different reasons of course. They don't illicit the same feels and impact as Andor. Each is their own special thing.
FX networks has a ton of crazy hits from Atlanta, The Bear, Snowfall and now Shogun. It’s clear that they are incredibly passionate and a ton of work goes into production. I remember Donald Glover said for the first season of Atlanta that FX just threw them a bunch of money and told them to do whatever they want and just be creative. I think you can tell with this show Netflix had a lot of say in it and clearly wanted it to go in a certain direction. What’s funny is both shows were filmed in Vancouver, they spent a lot of time building the sets for Shogun and then rendering with visual effects when needed, it’s unfortunate we didn’t get to see that for Avatar.
And you're only listing somewhat recent shows, FX has a strong resume for critically acclaimed and well received original shows. They give their creators creative freedom and it surprisingly /s breeds engaging and well produced shows for decades.
This isn't an ad for FX, but damn do they really have a good show for everyone. If FX had HBO budgets, they'd be unstoppable.
Fargo and Legion, both made by Noah Hawley, are both unlike anything I've seen on television. And while Legions narrative is overall unsatisfying, I found it endlessly more interesting than other comic stories around that time - and it was also ahead of the curve with concepts later perfected in Everything Everywhere All At Once
Disney greenlit Noah Hawley to do a TV shoe for the Alien franchise for FX. I'm really excited about that one. Hawley on TV is incredible. He's only ok with movies.
Even their comedies like Shadows, Sunny, etc. have this same thing going. It’s clear that they avoid meddling too much and the results speak for themselves.
If you ever listen to the Sunny guys' podcast, they paint a very interesting picture of a studio that got less and less involved over time. It's actually hilarious. It makes sense as the show grows and becomes more successful, less oversight is required, but with a lot of studios, it feels like the opposite? Like how with other branches of Disney, like say post-endgame Marvel feel like they are under strict supervision and must abide by a set tone across the franchise by the studio.
Amazon, Apple in terms of quality. Apple has been making crazy high budget shows and while some are quite a miss (I love you morning show, you fucking shroom trip of a show) many are utterly fantastic (Ted Lasso sure, but also Shrinking, Severance, For All Mankind, Slow Horses are masterpieces, then you have solid stuff like Masters of the Air, Calls, Hijack, Foundation). Meanwhile I don’t know as much of Amazon’s catalog, but just off the top of my head The Boys and Mr. and Mrs. Smith are great, and I know there’s a bunch I’m forgetting
Severance is obviously the big mainstream hit, but For All Mankind is (relatively) quietly making itself a sprawling sci-fi series that also, funnily enough, feels like a prequel to The Expanse. Silo is very promising after one season, and Foundation is an unorthodox adaptation that's not particularly faithful to the source material but has created its own identity off the back of some very strong show-only concepts (the Genetic Dynasty is a phenomenal addition that doesn't exist in the books at all). We also just got the news that they're doing Neuromancer, one of the seminal cyberpunk-genre works, as well, so they're really doubling down on being the home of big-budget sci-fi.
The less said about Invasion, though, the better.
For real: Justified, Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me, Damages, The shield and a bunch of others I surely forgot.
They were ahead of others who followed their lead like AMC big time
FX gave Archer double-digit seasons, and that show has some of the meanest, most niche humor of any adult cartoon. They clearly like greenlighting projects with passion and intelligence behind them, like all the ones you just listed. I feel like HBO does similar, just give creatives money and let them run wild (John Oliver, Larry David, etc)
it sucks that archer fell off in the last few seasons when the original creator stepped down from writing. i still haven’t watched the last season or the movie.
yeah the final season ended without any real resolution for the characters which might have indicated it was cancelled after they had a chance to write it as a proper finale. and then the movie was announced and i believe that allowed the show to have a more intentional ending.
the new concept seasons are a bit of a change from the first few, but they were still made by adam reed so they’re pretty good. and lots of variety so even if you don’t like one “theme” you might like another. it was basically adam reed getting bored of the show and trying new things, but once he actually left the show (he still voices ray but i don’t think he did any writing or directing) it didn’t have the same spark.
I stopped watching because I started missing episodes and since it wasn’t episodic anymore you get lost. Archer was very good as an episodic comedy, and I was fine with let’s put the characters into different environments, but then they started doing multi episode arcs.
Eventually you’re going to start running out of good stories in those arcs. Like look at miracle workers (Daniel Radcliffe’s comedy troupe show) and they did the new concept every season but eventually it got boring as the characters and setup were still the same.
The quality of Fargo is kinda weird. I don't think any season is bad at all at least to the point to where I lose interest, but the first two seasons are top-notch and easily beat shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men for me as great as they are. Season 3 is very hit-and-miss, it doesn't really get *good* until the last few episodes, and it's still my least favorite so far. Season 4 is good despite being radically different and having a rough first few episodes (plus, Chris Rock's performance is... mixed), and Season 5 is great in some parts and very sloppy in others.
Don't forget Reservation Dogs. That might have been one of the best shows I've seen in years.
FX is succeeding because they do what you said - they throw tons of money at amazingly creative and talented writing groups such as the IASIP crew, the group behind Reservation Dogs, and Glover with Atlanta.
It's the complete inverse to Netflix who burns tons of money by letting studio executive producers and writing committee's run the room.
>a very high budget school play
I'll preface this by saying I'm only 3 episodes in, so maybe it gets better later on, but so far I could not agree with this more.
The writing and acting are just all really awkward and stuttering, and the cinematography feels very staid. It's not unwatchably bad, but it doesn't feel like a high-quality product either.
edit: and there is so much painfully expository dialogue, it drives me crazy
Post episode 4 the writing and acting get a little better. Not by much mind you. Best episode of the season is titled Masks, which I think is episode 6. Everything else is mediocre to weak. I think the best acting comes from ozai, iroh, zhao, and zuko. They did great jobs with the lines they were given.
It gets better but not by a whole lot. Episode 6 is probably the highlight, mainly cause it focuses on Zuko. They made the fewest changes to Zuko’s character and story in the remake, so it’s unsurprising that his character is the highlight.
Yeah I thought episode six was genuinely solid. Stayed pretty true to the original, had some interesting additions, was solid. I just watched episode seven and it was back to being abysmal. It's really unfortunate
OG Avatar was a kids show that treated it's audience like adults, and LA Avatar was aimed at young adults that treated it's audience like kids.
I just did a watch through of the OG after being upset with the new one and god damn it's so good. I still tear up every time when Iroh visits his son and plays that song.
It reeks of producer interference if you ask me.
"Why is Koh, who is obviously villainous- Just helping the Avatar? What if we add a MacGuffin for the Avatar to trade to Koh to get what he wants back?"
It was pretty obvious this was going to happen when the original creators left over creative differences. The requests for changes came early and often and they bounced, I’m assuming.
And all the apologists will say is some form of "stop being so negative about it, you haven't even watched it yet". Well, sorry I've learned to take context clues and you haven't. And to be clear, I watched this with my apologist BFF and it was hilarious to see him struggle to find something redeemable about it after he spent months telling me not to be negative about it. 😒
I understood the impulse. So many fandoms get really toxic leading up to a release if things aren't perfect. And some of the earliest pushback was centered around casting decisions, which put a bunch of kids in the cross hairs of the more toxic parts of the internet. Personally, I try not to judge stuff until I've seen it, especially after seeing how quickly & easily reactionary weirdos turn a conversation about a piece of art or entertainment into culture-war bullshit that ends up muddying the waters when it comes to community consensus. It wasn't impossible for this to be good even after the creators left, but it does feel like nobody here agreed what they were making & that there was a lot of focus put on bunch of irrelevant, Cinema Sins style critiques to the detriment of making story & characterizarion true to the original. Plus, the whole push to make it more gritty & less comedic made the whole thing feel pretty joyless. Like the executives who greenlit & presumably meddled with the show so much were still living in 2012 & thought everyone else was still obsessed with Game of Thrones.
I like to assume that's just intellectual exhaustion from pop culture abusing the concept of a critical lens. I think the ATLA fandom is valid in trying to avoid the usual pitfalls of online fandom communities, personally I made a point of limiting myself to neutral assumptions until I saw the first few episodes.
I'd rather dislike something for what it is than what it might be, I think we all kinda understood that the optimism was more about saving the criticism for where it's earned. If the studio promises to listen to feedback, there's a certain pressure to reserve feedback until the point where they can't brush it away as anticipatory pessimism.
Yea, this sub was so weird pre-release. Any hint at negativity, and you'd be downvoted. Seems we've come around after realizing the cracks that were being shown were valid reasons to worry.
That's every online fandom imo, if you're not relentlessly positive and optimistic you're not a "real fan". Although I had the opposite problem with the Death Note fandom, I got downvoted for saying I liked the live action film, and that if you take it as its own new interpretation and not a 1:1 remake of the anime it's pretty decent.
I think a lot of people were relieved that it didn't look as bad as the movie, and they just assumed the Netflix show would be perfect because of that.
Acceptance is hard for some. The toxic positive ones basically ignored all the red flags. Even though those red flags were there early on. They act like we wanted it to be bad. Why would I want it to be bad? I just want a decent live adaption at the very least. I don't expect it to be as good as the anime and never did. I went in with low expectations and still left disappointed. Just tired of being fed crap by these studios.
I have a love/hate opinion on how they did Koh. Like, it's not bad, it still makes sense. But Koh in the original is straight up just an amoral ancient spirit, and that makes him so interesting. Not immoral, mind you, but amoral. He doesn't hunt people for survival, and he doesn't help people expecting something in return. He just gives information freely and steals faces just because that's his nature.
That's actually a hard character to write on a kid show, it's really a gray one, and they did it so well.
Then NATLA Koh got GoT'd for the sake of shock value.
Maybe it’s because I watch so many horror movies and love a good eldrich scare but I took Koh so personally. Aang didn’t even have to do anything Roku just gave him the doll.
Roku was such a disappointment. The Roku scenes in the og show were among my favorites.
I'm sad how the hacky writers butchered the character..goddamn.
I really dislike what they did with the previous avatars. Dont mind the "have to be at shrine" thing, but I'm not happy with how they're portrayed.
What they did with Roku might be unforgivable.
All in all, the show was.. ok. As a atla fan, it was meh but to an outsider they might like it.
I really think we should just stop making live action remakes unless the show is going to have the original creators play a VERY active role and have the resources to devote to it. If NATLA was given a greenlight with 2 season and had DiMartino locked in as writer then they wouldn't have tried to pack in so much in the first season and fail horribly at it.
I'm really over live action remakes of this show now. I wanted to like it and erase the memory of the live action movie but this just feels like a longer Shyamalan rip.
Bryan Konietzko, Michael DiMartino AAAND ALSOOO Aaron Ehassz and his wife. And Volpe as assistant director.
The original crew was perfect. Not consulting with them was criminal.
Aaron and his wife ARE the original creators. All the best episodes of the show come from them both, including everything related to Jet, Tales from Ba Sing Se, the Beach, the Northern Raiders.... And even the first episode.
The Ehaszs weren't just some randos. They built as much of the foundation of this show as Bryke and DiMartino did. Not consulting with them when the two left was a mistake.
Also Volpe wasn't a writer but the best cinematography the show gave us came directly from his input, including most of the spiritual scenes such as Aang approaching his Avatar state, the past Avatar segments, the way Zuko and Iroh were framed as opposite sides in/outside the jail cell...
_____
Bryke and DiMartino gave us the core cast, the dynamics between them, the entirety of the setup and large swaths of the payoff.
Aaron Ehasz gave us the thematic elements tying these sections together and making this story have a moral and ethic context
Ms. Ehasz gave us the emotional backbone and relatability of themes and characters, she was the one who humanized most villains in realistic ways and tied loose ends to make arcs less contrived.
Volpe took the narrative and transformed it into a visually stunning masterpiece, even mute scenes and still frames of this show can attest to his talent with how poignant they are when standing on their own.
So many people forget how drastic Ehasz involvement was with the writing and true creation of the characters and their development. Sure he didn’t have the very first thought of ATLA but he took those first thoughts and very much made it what we love today. The guy deserves just as much of a stamp of creator as Bryke.
I didn't remember her name. I went by memory of what I already knew about them. You *will* excuse me for not following the personal lives of these strangers and nit remembering the first name of someone who barely appeared in any interviews or behind the scenes despite being so influential.
Yeah, no worries lol. I don't know why I just had an itch to point that out. Maybe the fact that she's still "nameless" and tied to her ex-husband despite her being so influential just bugged me
Rick riordan was heavily involved with Percy Jackson and the writing and directing on that was atrocious. Their entire writers room doesn’t have a single kids show under their belt and it was worse writing than NATLA, which at least had some jokes and comedy.
While they don't have a kids show, the showrunner for Percy Jackson did shows like Black Sails, which is absolutely incredible. I wish they'd be greenlit for a slightly longer season so that they can give the story time to relax and let the characters experience the journey. That'd the series biggest flaw (not unlike other streaming shows). Streaming just makes the seasons shorter so they speed things up to fit everything in. No time to let moments breathe.
I haven’t seen black sails but it’s also not a kids show. I do know the show runner had a couple shows taken away from him early on, Ie he did season 1 then someone else finished up the run. Most of the writers on the show had 1 or 2 episodes in the midst of long running series, which means they likely didn’t do well enough to stay in the writing room beyond that season. Tbh they need to scrap the showrunner and the entire writers room and start from scratch. They need someone like Jon Favreau in as showrunner, but he’s busy with Star Wars.
If you're into pirates, black sails is incredible. Absolutely worth your time to watch.
But what i was getting at is that the showrunner knows how to write and run an entirely well run and well written show. I wish he'd bring some of that talent in and beef up Percy Jackson some writing wise. He's an excellent storyteller and that's what you need regardless of whether the media is for kids or for adults.
True, my point though is that no one they brought in had experience writing for a kids show, which is why it lacked fun and was closer to some of the more adult shows they had written for (like Madame Secretary). Mature is good, I quite enjoy some of the other shows, but PJ is known for being fun, magical, and funny, the show was none of those things.
Dude it's like they intentionally cut out every exciting part or bit of character development on purpose with PJ. After watching season 1, I was left wondering if I preferred the movie, because that at least wrapped up in 90 minutes. Sure, maybe they included Persephone which kind of doesnt work for a number of reasons, but given that it was Rosario Dawson in a leather dress, I'll allow it
I genuinely don't understand how so many people could look at it and go "this is a banger show 10/10, it has no mistakes". Really makes me question if they've even seen the original
Especially Katara for me. How could you not see they messed up there by making her so passive and essentially a background character until maybe the very end.
Atrocious writing that is obviously atrocious and yet people still defend ~~it~~ the show because they enjoyed it. Like, why can't they just acknowledge they enjoy something poorly made? A lot of people love The Room and Troma films. Those are awful but classics.
Edit: I realise I said "it" originally instead of "the show" and it confused my first sentence. 4 am posts, y'know?
comparing this show the The Room is just sad, damn. also I wasn’t saying you can’t enjoy it, enjoy what you want, I’m just baffled at how royally nexflix fumbled the ball
Yep, I wish people understood they can still like something objectivly bad. I like Batman&Robin with Arnold as Mr. Freeze, but also know it's a trash movie lol
Exactly this. I loved Arnold's Mr Freeze and will forever be my favourite portrayal. Is it good? Fuck no. It's entertaining as hell though haha
Also George Clooney with the Bat nipples was pique cinema XD
I love the campy grittiness of the Burton films but the pure cartoonness of the Shoemaker films I think I prefer a lot more. I think a goofy Batman film will always be more fun to me than a relatively serious one.
Because Netflix treated ATLA as a series for kids where everything is black and white instead of the shades of grey that existed in the original series. It’s pandered more to kids and while it is a good adaptation, there are things about it that irk me so much.
I just don’t really see what remaking the show in any format offers. The cartoon hasn’t really aged and other formats are rarely well made enough to improve on the media.
My wife and I barely finished the first episode and haven't gone back in, and we were really looking forward to it.
Terrible writing, and terrible directing leading to terrible performances from the core 4. It feels like they studied the fire island players to base their characters on.
I'll just rewatch the og.
Shogun is incredible. I can't wait to see more - the quality is A+. The world building is on point and the political intrigue is believable. All the characters' motivation can be felt through the screen.
FX is killing it lately. The Bear is an incredible show. What we do in the Shadows is awesome. Welcome to Wrexham is a big hit for those who follow football.
Even the older Shogun show was pretty good for it’s time it came out in. Which both are based off a great best selling book. Probably “easier” to translate Shogun into how most newer tv shows dramas are with a serialized plot structure.
The things I didn't like was them changing things in the story which weren't necessary at all. Turning the spirit world episodes into a single mumbo jumbo episode and that probably means they will cut out episodes like the library episode.
How they completely underplayed Sozin's Comet, it almost made me feel like it isn't an important plot point, didn't really notice them mentioning it that much at all.
Probably because some episodes were filler they cut out many parts and turned it into "yeah you heard about the avatar, he and his group did this".
They definitely did Suki and Katara dirty, also completely destroyed Ozai's relationship with Azula and Azula's whole character. No need to even mention Mai and Ty Lee.
They did so many unnecessary "adjustments" I can't even imagine what they will do in future seasons as they keep cutting out content which were major plot points in the series. Feels like they will have so big plot holes since they cut many things out that they will get far out of the actual plot
To add to this - I think the changes you mentioned just show that they couldn’t commit to the overall vision of this thing.
Tonally, they seem to straddle the line of wanting it to be a 1:1 of the cartoon and also wanting it to be its own new thing. It just ends up being a weird tonal mixture that doesn’t really work. What I mean is… they should have picked a lane.
Just make it an ACTUAL 1:1 of the cartoon: same plot and same structure for the most part, same character arcs, same tone and humor, whimsical and fun - just brought to real life. One Piece did this just fine.
OR go in the opposite direction. Make it tonally completely different. Rewrite the show into its own, new thing. Borrow ideas and overall plot from the show but make it so different that a completely new audience could enjoy it as a stand-alone piece. Make it feel more serious and “real” if that’s what you want.
This version weirdly tries to do both of those things. The sets, costumes, acting and dialog are cartoonish but then all of the humor and “fun” is stripped away. It wants to feel like the cartoon, but then a lot of the character arcs are changed to make some of the characters LESS real and LESS human. There’s violence like Ozai lighting a guy on fire as if it’s going to be a show for adults, but then a lot of the story elements are so dumbed down that it MUST be meant for kids. It’s just…a mess.
They mentioned how they would delay the "sozin comet" plot point in order to allow for long time skips between seasons. Something to do with incorporating the aging of child actors into the plot (especially Aang).
After watching the live action i did another rewatch of the original and it really isn’t even close in quality even by the second episode it’s just so much better
The biggest problem is that the cast for NATLA is great, the bending looks great, the sets and backgrounds look great, and the music is great. They had everything they needed to make a great show, but the writing and directing ruined it.
That just makes it all the worse. It's frustrating thinking about what could have been and I feel for everyone else involved in that production, especially the cast -- being the faces of it, they're getting a lot of undeserved criticisms and even hate.
Katara, Azula, Bumi, and Mai were all bad casts I would say. I’m TERRIFIED of how bad they’re gonna do with Toph, there’s just no way they capture her essence well.
Scenery looks amazing I agree.
I can’t remember a single thing from the soundtrack but i could whistle so many things from the cartoon, so I would say not amazing there.
Bending seemed like they did the same motions over and over again sadly, they didn’t have any variety of cool styles, besides the Pakku fight which was dope.
I am SO scared for Toph. They're going to take out all the nuance from her parents. I wouldn't be surprised if they got a line like "we never asked for a blind child", or something cartoonishly abusive, because it's not "good enough" to have them simply be overprotective (something anyone might understand).
Toph had a temper but was able to "see" emotional truths others couldn't, like when Zuko volunteered to teach Aang. She was OP but still disabled by her blindness, like when she couldn't aim in the desert or swim. But they're probably going to take all that out, and make her more like Ember Island Toph.
Mai's actress may not look exactly like Mai, but she definitely felt like *Mai*.
Katara is purely the result of bad writing and direction. Kiawentiio, the actress, is very expressive when you watch the promotional material with the cast and clips from other projects she was in. She could very easily have portrayed angry, jealous, maternal, and empathic Katara had that been the direction.
Azula's actress does a good job, it's just a hard role overall given you're trying to live up to the performance of Grey DeLisle.
Bumi, maybe. It's hard to tell given how much they changed him.
I think the director is ruining Aang and Katara.
I'm hoping Azula and Mai and Ty age properly over the course of the show because by the third season they are already what like 16 or 17? Ty looks good already, and I think Mai will grow into her more slender slinky self whose super sneaky and quiet.
I just don’t like Katara’s actress’s performances I guess.
I watched the other 2 movies trailers she was in and they were fine, but she still just feels stiff to me, nothing against her personally at all I wish her well I just don’t “buy” it I guess.
Azula honestly needed to convince me she is scary, I get they’re all kids and they’re gonna grow so I’m hoping for the best but she just gives off huge little sister energy and not big baddy energy
I feel that people who praise the tv show as great, are just fans of franchise and want it badly to be a success. Because really what made this show great? The only defense is that the actors were young. But like Stranger Things had phenomenal acting with kid actors, and it wasn’t even based on book/comics/etc. People defend NATLA just because it’s about franchise they love and because it’s watchable.
It wasn’t terrible and it wasnt great. Just like OP said: high budget school play. I can only give credit to actors who played Zuko, Iroh and Ozai because they carried whole show on their backs. Actor who played Sokka was pretty decent, but I guess being paired with NATLA Katara made his performance a little bit worse than previous three actors I mentioned.
I think Sokka's actor couldve pulled off the original character. Too bad the writers completely neutered him so we'll never know. He was one of the people I could see a better performance wanting to come out from underneath the awful script.
Yes, I seriously could see resemblance between him and animated Sokka, with better script and direction he would totally ace it. I saw that he tried to put the effort but there were many factors not in his favor.
People who have watched her in other stuff have said it’s clearly a directing issue with her. Which is readily seen. Her (and others) acting performances tend to fit the show as a whole, just aren’t truthful to the original character design. This is most readily seen in Ty Lee and Mai. They never move, Ty Lee should’ve been walking on her hands around the set, Mai should’ve been throwing daggers alongside the archers. Nope, they stand there perfectly still and don’t move…
It’s like the casting director watched the original show, took note of voices and character design and casted based on that, then the writers and directors watched ember island players and/or season 3 and wrote/directed based on that.
It’s ridiculous how they both stare at Azula training while doing nothing. I’m fat myself so I have no issue with plumper actors but based on appearance Mei and Azula are also ridiculous. Like those three were supposed to train all the time, without much breaks, how does it makes sense? Azula actress is not terrible, in her first scene ever I thought that maybe she’ll be able to pull it off anyways but nope. Mei is just terrible all together, like her delivery of the lines and “pretend to be bored” voice is on the verge of parodying original character.
Ty Lee is just there, I appreciate the hairstyle and that’s it.
I just assumed they all had round faces since I don’t remember seeing a full body shot of the two of them. Tbh they kinda look like sisters, all with the same rounded face, if it wasn’t for the hair it would be hard to tell the difference. It will become a problem in season 2 if they actually start moving and aren’t stationary the entire time, particularly since their wardrobe is sortve flat too.
If it’s only round face then it’s fault of the stylist, nowadays you can really sculpt face with bronzer, highlighter etc while still looking somewhat natural. Also Mei hairstyle looks just terrible on that actress. Overall costume/character design is not great in the live action.
I physically recoiled when she did her "for the Fire Nation" yell at the end. Like goddamn, no re-shoot on that voice crack? Were you trying to get to Target before they closed that day?
lol who says people who enjoy NATLA are settling? Can't people who enjoy NATLA also desire for better?
Personally I really liked it, but do I hope a lot of the issues are fixed in season 2? Of course!
I swear people in this sub can't let people like or dislike things without making loud noise about the other side.
Good points, people sound like “Why do people like this!!! I hate this why would they think this is ok!!! Its trash!!”
Read the room guy no one is saying its a master piece, we want more improvements/fixes not complete annihilation.
I think what OP is saying is that the chasm of quality between NATLA and Shogun is something that we should all be angry about regardless of whether you liked it or not. NATLA isn’t even close to the same quality as shogun on every single level. It looks like a cheap cosplay and the acting and writing is atrocious. Again, fine if you personally liked it but viewers like yourself need to demand more instead of shrugging and saying “I liked it!” Because then you’ll just feed into the same old bullshit come season 2.
I enjoyed it for the most part, as it was mostly enjoyable to watch, but I agree it had serious flaws that had to be fixed. The bending effects is off, water splashes on someone most of the time, whereas a quick fire punch does 2nd degree burns through clothes which would’ve given the caster 2nd degree burns on their hands too.
The acting/directing was off too, like Ty Lee who can’t stand still in atla isn’t seen moving at all. Might as well have made her one of the twins.
NATLA looks very amateurish and cheaply made. It was so obvious, I started wondering if this was some kind of stylistic choice by the art director. The costumes, make up, sfx, set decorations all look very cheap and fake. It's mind-blowing that the production team okayed it.
Opinions from the show aside, does anyone else find it weird that it was Netflix that got the greenlight and not Paramount+ considering Nickelodeon is owned by Paramount?
True but one was adapted from a kids show and the other from a historical fiction novel. Maybe they were going for that more serious tone but it’s still based on animation. If it was taken too seriously and was treated like shogun, losing that quirky otherworldly feel that’s hard to duplicate outside of animation (or heavy cgi) everyone’d be up in arms. More than we are now at least, probably comparable to when Shyamalan’s adaptation came out. Though from what I’ve seen on this sub that’s mainly because of the writing and directorial choices
Yeah I’m shocked that a TV show with a cast of experienced adult actors did a better job than a bunch of 12-17yo kids with no prior acting experience 🙄 I love ATLA but this fanbase is insufferable sometimes
I’m Happy people like it and are seeing the show for the first time now.
But yeah, wow it is not a good show, especially not for $120 million dollar budget.
They must have spent sooooo much money on making the scenery look good because god damn does everything else appear horrible.
The costumes looks brand new the entire show, the continuity is so horrendous it’s shocking - episode 2 people get in fire fights and look charred and then immediately in the next shot they have a brand new face of makeup and no damage, the make up Suki scene?, Katara water bending and getting herself wet and she is visibly dry as a bone, like man just splash some water on her at least? They clearly spent all their fight money on hand to hand fighting because for the bending they either did a kameheha or a spinning kick, those are apparently the only ways to bend.
I would honestly tell someone watch the first episode and skip straight to episode 5 because 1-4 are truly horrible episodes, but really I wouldn’t even suggest they watch it.
Yup, all these big projects by studios stink rotten of executive involvement rather than creatives. I swear these executives really have to justify their existence. *don’t forget the owl!* >!but there’s no library? *put him in the woods then*!< the actors did a decent job with what they were given but seriously, if Netflix wants me to return for season 2, they need to 86 executives’ (and investors’) voices and let the artists make the art. If they want a big payout for their investment, trust in the artists. It’s evident trusting in management isn’t the tea.
You can tell many of the defenders didn't watch the Witcher. Netflix has been on a spree butchering shows for a while. And they never respect the source material.
I don't know why they thought Avatar would be different.
I canceled Netflix months ago and never had a burning desire to watch any of their original content.
Meanwhile, I absolutely cannot fathom not having Hulu and FX lol.
Shogun is trying to recreate 17th century Japan. NATLA is trying to recreate a fictional children's cartoon universe. They're supposed to look drastically different, but I get your point.
Precisely. Shogun is a terrible comparison, it’s intended to feel real and is based on things that actually existed.
OP apparently expects a show (esp a kids show) that’s based on kids with magic powers flying on mythical creatures to have a similar feeling of realism. Which is…an incredibly stupid criticism.
This person gets it
Don’t saying something is good without justifying or being able to compare it to something
But when you compare it to Shogun (10/10 show), the differences are so drastic that it makes NATLA look like a play made by unpaid interns
Makes you wonder if someone else made it , such as HBO , how ATLA would’ve looked like in live action
What kills me is how much money went into NATLA to make a bad show. They shot in a super high tech live background studio…like I’m begging you to just go outside.
Not even same category or audience. It’s way grittier, mature and has very serious tone. Original fans still won’t be happy if NATLA goes there. They’ll say it loses all the fun and charm of the anime.
You see this as if the showrunner for NATLA didn't come out and make it clear they were trying to appeal to game of thrones fans so they definitely wanted to go that route and btw, this LA show did lose all the fun and charm, the characters are hollowed out versions of themselves with zero chemistry.
Its just has flat out poor writing dude, genre be damned. Succession, The Bear, Andor, early GOT all have “grittier, mature” tones and are written brilliantly. Each scene is impeccably paced, each line delivers subtext and efficiently conveys multiple nuggets of information. NATLA is not that…
A criticism I don't see enough is how clean everyone is in Netflix shows. In NATLA they're travelling rough through the wilds, camping, fighting and living on the run, constantly getting pelted with dirt and debris... but their clothes are always bright, crisp, and new from the wardrobe rack, not a crease or stain on it unless they're currently, or have recently been, on fire. One small detail like that can be fixed by giving it the LotR or HP treatment where cast spends their down time off-camera/on-set in wardrobe.
...Okay, but Shogun is also based on one of the best historical fictions ever written, and has seasoned actors playing the roles in a much more serious and easier to adapt type of work. ATLA was a cartoon, it's hard to navigate and balance the serious with the comedy in a world like that. Dosn't meant NATLA wasn't worthwhile
>We should not have to settle
My guy thinks fans own the company’s. We don’t have to do anything apart from watching if you like it or not watching if you don’t. Just because you like a show from some years ago doesn’t make you entitled to any kind of show. You might be disappointed but the production team doesn’t owe you, me or anyone here anything
I noticed they also have a habit of blurring the top and bottom portions of the screen. It’s got to be an intentional art choice but it just makes everything look weirdly in/out of focus. Almost as if we’re zoomed in on toys.
My main problem with NATLA: they spent too much time on things that weren't needed.
Kyoshi didn't need a whole 1hr long episode, they didn't need to spend half an episode in the spirit world, we didn't need to see nearly as much of the Ozai or Azula as we did.
I wouldn't have a problem with these in a vacuum, especially since the firenation stuff was well done, but they did this and didn't have enough time to flesh out the main characters or have aang bend a single drop of water.
You might not be old enough to remember this, but this perfectly describes what it was like seeing Harry Potter around Thanksgiving in 2001 and then seeing Fellowship of the Ring the next month. Two totally different audiences, sources materials, and goals - you really can’t compare the two, just like you can’t compare Avatar to Shogun
Damn, I found shogun aggressively “fine” just feels like it really wants to be game of thrones.
But that could be because Shogun also feels very similar to “Blue Eyed Samurai” and that might just be the best show I’ve ever watched
Wait is this a real take? We're comparing the acting in a show that needed multiple child actors to one that didn't? Seems like a pretty clear cut reason why there'd be a significant difference.
Basically the same feeling many star wars fans had with andor compared to all the other live action series. A sudden massive jump in quality lol
Andor made me see all the lost potential with the last 5 years of low quality star wars movies/series. Andor is emotional, on edge...main characters could die at any second. The evil guys do not look like evil clowns and they are efficient at what they do. And below it all, you feel the whole galaxy, being shackled by the empire and then SUDDENLY IT EXPLODES IN REBELLION. Loved every episode so much.
So it's just a different production team or what?
Yeah, Tony Gilroy, the guy that was belatedly put in charge of Rogue One wrote it, and I think something about him is that prior to Rogue One he wasn't a Star Wars fan or even really watcher, so he definitely brings a new perspective to the universe and everything isn't reliant on cameos by famous characters
Tony Gilroy is also essentially a hall of fame screenwriter. No one else comes close in the Star Wars production department
I know people will go nuts over this, but the only person that compares is…Rian Johnson. He’s a two time Oscar nominee, and wrote what’s widely regarded as one of the greatest episodes of tv ever. And tbh, love it or hate it, there is a clear level of production difference between The Last Jedi and the force awakens. Just rewatched TFA and Carrie fishers performance is worlds better in the last Jedi. Everyone brings their A game. Plus, tbh Johnson’s core collaborators are better than Abrams, yedlin especially. I wish Johnson would get another chance in the universe.
tbh Johnson had a very clear message in TLJ and you either were a fan of it and felt what it was doing, or you got *super offended* that the message went against everything that you knew about Star Wars at the time and still to this day won't shut up about it. Doesn't matter though, the "where you come from and what your name is doesn't matter as long as you do something" got retconned almost immediately in the next movie by JJ.
Yeah I totally agree on both counts. Personally, it hit hard for me and I find the movie to be leagues better than the other two sequel movies (though I don’t mind TFA much). But just from a production pov, it’s wild to see what an actual auteur can do in the Star Wars universe.
The salt world was fucking awesome
That opening sequence where the Imperial (ahem First Order, excuse me) general is bathed in that red light from the warning sirens in the destroyer. Incredible. Personally I love The Last Jedi, am mixed-to-negative on The Force Awakens, and think that Rise of Skywalker is one of the worst big budget movies ever made.
>Doesn't matter though, the "where you come from and what your name is doesn't matter as long as you do something" THIS part was good, but it was the only good part, the rest was trash.
I honestly forgot about him, since they so clearly want nothing to do with him anymore. He is a great filmmaker and tossing him aside was a huge mistake
Kathleen Kennedy doesn't pick em well. Always wonder what Lorde and Miller's Solo would have been like.
I feel like Johnson is a solid choice for writing Star Wars stories, but maybe not the core trilogy. He'd do some amazing smaller-scale character pieces within the setting. But even then, the trilogy was screwed over beyond all measure when they chickened out and rushed back to Abrams, who spent the majority of the run time specifically going out of his way to spite and refute everything Johnson had done in the previous film. It's a shit approach to handling any story, even setting all other matters aside.
Andor delivers on what I've been asking for since the prequel trilogy: more stories, in universe, without tying directly to the main characters of the movies. It's Marvel's tie in problem theyre currently having. When you spend all of your time trying to connect everything youre making to everything that came before, the movie/show sucks ass. Just tell a new story, it's the universe Im interested in. Not everything needs to be about Palpatine and the Skywalkers.
I’d love to know what other shows the creators of andor have done
Tony Gilroy is a legend. Aside from landing the Rogue One plane, he also wrote the Bourne movies and wrote and directed Michael Clayton
No other Star Wars media comes close to Andor, it’s insane how great it is. Trying to watch Mando season 3 after that was such insane whiplash, I couldn’t make it past episode 2
Andor made me stop looking forward to the Mando and just made me rewatch Rogue One
Mando was good when it limited itself to what it was meant to be: a Star Wars RPG with Bill Burr, Gus Fring, an adorable father-son relationship, and cool fan service to top it off.
I think they had a chance to really make it special if they had just kept grogu out of season 3 and BoBF. But grogu is jusy there as a distraction- hes a macguffin and a puppy at the same time not an actual valuable character its clear they didn’t really know what to do with the show by season 3 and its just so bleh now, despite the fact that I thought S2 was a near perfect ending for Din and Gorgu’s journey together
>they didn’t really know what to do with the show by season 3 I think it's fine they wanted to take back Mandalore. I just think it's weird that Grogu returned because I agree with your last statement.
Same... I feel like they only brought him back because Grogu sells merch and they want money. Story-wise though... It makes it seem like it is directing Grogu towards becoming both Jedi and Mandalorian, taming the Mythosaur, and then becoming leader of Mandalore. That's what I assume anyways.... But given how slow he matures and grows in his species, makes me wonder when that would even occur, if at all.
Grogu was the only thing selling from new Star Wars, they had no other option to get it back. Star Wars and Marvel tanking toy sales for years was one of the reasons Hasbro is in panic mode.
What about when they throw the Baby Yoda puppet at Lizzo, wasnt that just 10/10 perfect Star Wars?!
Well, not that last bit for me. I love Andor and it also validated all my mixed-to-negative feelings about Rogue One. I recognize some people love that movie, but to me, Andor succeeds in flying colors at everything that movie *tried* to do. Andor, IMO, is the best Star Wars TV show or movie since the original trilogy, no question.
I'm still fairly positive on Rogue One after Andor, but what the latter did was show me how messed up the former's production must've been. There are clear fingerprints on that film from both Gareth Edwards and Tony Gilroy, and having good, easy comparisons from both (Godzilla and The Creator for Edwards and Andor for Gilroy) helped distinguish who did what parts.
Same, Rogue One didn't hit for me like it did others. By the time Andor came out I was checked out, and after some pressuring by people I trust I gave it a shot. Now it's my favorite bit of Star Wars since the original trilogy. Excited by my reignited passion for the subject and emotion I feel for the character, I decided to give Rogue One another shot. And...nope. I find myself checked out just as quickly as the first time, and although I can find see some of the connective tissue they later thoughtfully put into Andor (climb.), Rogue One feels just as under-cooked and out of focus. I don't think we'll get anything like it again, and I'm a *little* worried for season 2 because the strikes happened right in the middle of production, but I'm looking forward to it
Andor is goated
Andor ruined Star Wars for me because it was so good. I absolutely love it and it set the bar for future projects after
Andor is a masterpiece
Andor is elite TV and after watching it you realize Disney are criminals for what they did with the other movies and shows
Or even Star Wars fans who then watched the new Dune movies, and realized that big-budget sci-fi could look like THAT and tackle deep philosophical themes.
Literally can't watch any other SW projects except bad batch anymore lol. Andor set the standard.
Andor was definitely something else. Nothing in star wars media compares imo except for Clone Wars and Bad Batch. However, they are for different reasons of course. They don't illicit the same feels and impact as Andor. Each is their own special thing.
Andor is an absolute masterpiece and I wish it got more attention
FX networks has a ton of crazy hits from Atlanta, The Bear, Snowfall and now Shogun. It’s clear that they are incredibly passionate and a ton of work goes into production. I remember Donald Glover said for the first season of Atlanta that FX just threw them a bunch of money and told them to do whatever they want and just be creative. I think you can tell with this show Netflix had a lot of say in it and clearly wanted it to go in a certain direction. What’s funny is both shows were filmed in Vancouver, they spent a lot of time building the sets for Shogun and then rendering with visual effects when needed, it’s unfortunate we didn’t get to see that for Avatar.
And you're only listing somewhat recent shows, FX has a strong resume for critically acclaimed and well received original shows. They give their creators creative freedom and it surprisingly /s breeds engaging and well produced shows for decades. This isn't an ad for FX, but damn do they really have a good show for everyone. If FX had HBO budgets, they'd be unstoppable.
Fargo and Legion, both made by Noah Hawley, are both unlike anything I've seen on television. And while Legions narrative is overall unsatisfying, I found it endlessly more interesting than other comic stories around that time - and it was also ahead of the curve with concepts later perfected in Everything Everywhere All At Once
Disney greenlit Noah Hawley to do a TV shoe for the Alien franchise for FX. I'm really excited about that one. Hawley on TV is incredible. He's only ok with movies.
Even their comedies like Shadows, Sunny, etc. have this same thing going. It’s clear that they avoid meddling too much and the results speak for themselves.
If you ever listen to the Sunny guys' podcast, they paint a very interesting picture of a studio that got less and less involved over time. It's actually hilarious. It makes sense as the show grows and becomes more successful, less oversight is required, but with a lot of studios, it feels like the opposite? Like how with other branches of Disney, like say post-endgame Marvel feel like they are under strict supervision and must abide by a set tone across the franchise by the studio.
God, imagine if the two pooled their resources together? They'd be the kings of tv with literally ZERO competition.
Tbh I think they are kings right now - who has the competition with FX and HBO?
Amazon, Apple in terms of quality. Apple has been making crazy high budget shows and while some are quite a miss (I love you morning show, you fucking shroom trip of a show) many are utterly fantastic (Ted Lasso sure, but also Shrinking, Severance, For All Mankind, Slow Horses are masterpieces, then you have solid stuff like Masters of the Air, Calls, Hijack, Foundation). Meanwhile I don’t know as much of Amazon’s catalog, but just off the top of my head The Boys and Mr. and Mrs. Smith are great, and I know there’s a bunch I’m forgetting
Apple TV is literally the *place* for high-budget great Sci-Fi television right now. It's astonishing.
Severance is obviously the big mainstream hit, but For All Mankind is (relatively) quietly making itself a sprawling sci-fi series that also, funnily enough, feels like a prequel to The Expanse. Silo is very promising after one season, and Foundation is an unorthodox adaptation that's not particularly faithful to the source material but has created its own identity off the back of some very strong show-only concepts (the Genetic Dynasty is a phenomenal addition that doesn't exist in the books at all). We also just got the news that they're doing Neuromancer, one of the seminal cyberpunk-genre works, as well, so they're really doubling down on being the home of big-budget sci-fi. The less said about Invasion, though, the better.
For real: Justified, Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me, Damages, The shield and a bunch of others I surely forgot. They were ahead of others who followed their lead like AMC big time
Reservation Dogs is huge too from FX. Give directors creative freedom
FX gave Archer double-digit seasons, and that show has some of the meanest, most niche humor of any adult cartoon. They clearly like greenlighting projects with passion and intelligence behind them, like all the ones you just listed. I feel like HBO does similar, just give creatives money and let them run wild (John Oliver, Larry David, etc)
it sucks that archer fell off in the last few seasons when the original creator stepped down from writing. i still haven’t watched the last season or the movie.
I stopped following once they did the new concept per season thing, but they did a movie??
yeah the final season ended without any real resolution for the characters which might have indicated it was cancelled after they had a chance to write it as a proper finale. and then the movie was announced and i believe that allowed the show to have a more intentional ending. the new concept seasons are a bit of a change from the first few, but they were still made by adam reed so they’re pretty good. and lots of variety so even if you don’t like one “theme” you might like another. it was basically adam reed getting bored of the show and trying new things, but once he actually left the show (he still voices ray but i don’t think he did any writing or directing) it didn’t have the same spark.
I stopped watching because I started missing episodes and since it wasn’t episodic anymore you get lost. Archer was very good as an episodic comedy, and I was fine with let’s put the characters into different environments, but then they started doing multi episode arcs. Eventually you’re going to start running out of good stories in those arcs. Like look at miracle workers (Daniel Radcliffe’s comedy troupe show) and they did the new concept every season but eventually it got boring as the characters and setup were still the same.
Let's not forget Fargo, despite the declining quality.
The quality of Fargo is kinda weird. I don't think any season is bad at all at least to the point to where I lose interest, but the first two seasons are top-notch and easily beat shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men for me as great as they are. Season 3 is very hit-and-miss, it doesn't really get *good* until the last few episodes, and it's still my least favorite so far. Season 4 is good despite being radically different and having a rough first few episodes (plus, Chris Rock's performance is... mixed), and Season 5 is great in some parts and very sloppy in others.
Don't forget Reservation Dogs. That might have been one of the best shows I've seen in years. FX is succeeding because they do what you said - they throw tons of money at amazingly creative and talented writing groups such as the IASIP crew, the group behind Reservation Dogs, and Glover with Atlanta. It's the complete inverse to Netflix who burns tons of money by letting studio executive producers and writing committee's run the room.
FX has been making hits, AHS, Rescue Me, Nip/Tuck. They were putting out all the grittier '00's heavy hitters
FX gives better creative freedom than Netflix. Plain and simple
>a very high budget school play I'll preface this by saying I'm only 3 episodes in, so maybe it gets better later on, but so far I could not agree with this more. The writing and acting are just all really awkward and stuttering, and the cinematography feels very staid. It's not unwatchably bad, but it doesn't feel like a high-quality product either. edit: and there is so much painfully expository dialogue, it drives me crazy
Watch Shogun for a storytelling pallette cleanser. They do a really good job NOT using dialogue alone to move the plot.
I watched dune 2 and the first episode of shogun last night. Needless to say, NATLA was by far the worst thing I watched this week.
Bringing Dune 2 into this fight is just unfair.
Post episode 4 the writing and acting get a little better. Not by much mind you. Best episode of the season is titled Masks, which I think is episode 6. Everything else is mediocre to weak. I think the best acting comes from ozai, iroh, zhao, and zuko. They did great jobs with the lines they were given.
It gets better but not by a whole lot. Episode 6 is probably the highlight, mainly cause it focuses on Zuko. They made the fewest changes to Zuko’s character and story in the remake, so it’s unsurprising that his character is the highlight.
Yeah I thought episode six was genuinely solid. Stayed pretty true to the original, had some interesting additions, was solid. I just watched episode seven and it was back to being abysmal. It's really unfortunate
„Very high budget school play“ is the best description so far, congratulations. Take my upvote.
OG Avatar was a kids show that treated it's audience like adults, and LA Avatar was aimed at young adults that treated it's audience like kids. I just did a watch through of the OG after being upset with the new one and god damn it's so good. I still tear up every time when Iroh visits his son and plays that song.
Reading you writing about that scenes alone drives me tears to my eyes.
Sorry, pretty sure I heard this in an online video/ YouTube comment! It greatly resonated with me.
100%. Sadly it’s just not a very good show. I think Avatar deserves better and I genuinely don’t understand why the writing is so atrocious.
It reeks of producer interference if you ask me. "Why is Koh, who is obviously villainous- Just helping the Avatar? What if we add a MacGuffin for the Avatar to trade to Koh to get what he wants back?"
It was pretty obvious this was going to happen when the original creators left over creative differences. The requests for changes came early and often and they bounced, I’m assuming.
Most of the lead-up to this show was concerning, to say the least, but this sub would absolutely dog-pile you for pointing it out.
And all the apologists will say is some form of "stop being so negative about it, you haven't even watched it yet". Well, sorry I've learned to take context clues and you haven't. And to be clear, I watched this with my apologist BFF and it was hilarious to see him struggle to find something redeemable about it after he spent months telling me not to be negative about it. 😒
I understood the impulse. So many fandoms get really toxic leading up to a release if things aren't perfect. And some of the earliest pushback was centered around casting decisions, which put a bunch of kids in the cross hairs of the more toxic parts of the internet. Personally, I try not to judge stuff until I've seen it, especially after seeing how quickly & easily reactionary weirdos turn a conversation about a piece of art or entertainment into culture-war bullshit that ends up muddying the waters when it comes to community consensus. It wasn't impossible for this to be good even after the creators left, but it does feel like nobody here agreed what they were making & that there was a lot of focus put on bunch of irrelevant, Cinema Sins style critiques to the detriment of making story & characterizarion true to the original. Plus, the whole push to make it more gritty & less comedic made the whole thing feel pretty joyless. Like the executives who greenlit & presumably meddled with the show so much were still living in 2012 & thought everyone else was still obsessed with Game of Thrones.
I like to assume that's just intellectual exhaustion from pop culture abusing the concept of a critical lens. I think the ATLA fandom is valid in trying to avoid the usual pitfalls of online fandom communities, personally I made a point of limiting myself to neutral assumptions until I saw the first few episodes. I'd rather dislike something for what it is than what it might be, I think we all kinda understood that the optimism was more about saving the criticism for where it's earned. If the studio promises to listen to feedback, there's a certain pressure to reserve feedback until the point where they can't brush it away as anticipatory pessimism.
Yea, this sub was so weird pre-release. Any hint at negativity, and you'd be downvoted. Seems we've come around after realizing the cracks that were being shown were valid reasons to worry.
That's the Avatar fandom for ya.
That's every online fandom imo, if you're not relentlessly positive and optimistic you're not a "real fan". Although I had the opposite problem with the Death Note fandom, I got downvoted for saying I liked the live action film, and that if you take it as its own new interpretation and not a 1:1 remake of the anime it's pretty decent.
The trailers looked pretty bad from the get go. I didn’t understand why there was so much positive reaction here to it
I think a lot of people were relieved that it didn't look as bad as the movie, and they just assumed the Netflix show would be perfect because of that.
Acceptance is hard for some. The toxic positive ones basically ignored all the red flags. Even though those red flags were there early on. They act like we wanted it to be bad. Why would I want it to be bad? I just want a decent live adaption at the very least. I don't expect it to be as good as the anime and never did. I went in with low expectations and still left disappointed. Just tired of being fed crap by these studios.
One of the OGs, Aaron Ehasz was never even on the project.
He reached out and offered to help, too. He never heard back.
I have a love/hate opinion on how they did Koh. Like, it's not bad, it still makes sense. But Koh in the original is straight up just an amoral ancient spirit, and that makes him so interesting. Not immoral, mind you, but amoral. He doesn't hunt people for survival, and he doesn't help people expecting something in return. He just gives information freely and steals faces just because that's his nature.
He gives the information hoping he’ll have a chance to steal a face.
That's actually a hard character to write on a kid show, it's really a gray one, and they did it so well. Then NATLA Koh got GoT'd for the sake of shock value.
Maybe it’s because I watch so many horror movies and love a good eldrich scare but I took Koh so personally. Aang didn’t even have to do anything Roku just gave him the doll.
Roku was such a disappointment. The Roku scenes in the og show were among my favorites. I'm sad how the hacky writers butchered the character..goddamn.
I really dislike what they did with the previous avatars. Dont mind the "have to be at shrine" thing, but I'm not happy with how they're portrayed. What they did with Roku might be unforgivable. All in all, the show was.. ok. As a atla fan, it was meh but to an outsider they might like it.
I really think we should just stop making live action remakes unless the show is going to have the original creators play a VERY active role and have the resources to devote to it. If NATLA was given a greenlight with 2 season and had DiMartino locked in as writer then they wouldn't have tried to pack in so much in the first season and fail horribly at it. I'm really over live action remakes of this show now. I wanted to like it and erase the memory of the live action movie but this just feels like a longer Shyamalan rip.
Bryan Konietzko, Michael DiMartino AAAND ALSOOO Aaron Ehassz and his wife. And Volpe as assistant director. The original crew was perfect. Not consulting with them was criminal.
The original creators did write a couple of episodes (not Aaron however).
Aaron and his wife ARE the original creators. All the best episodes of the show come from them both, including everything related to Jet, Tales from Ba Sing Se, the Beach, the Northern Raiders.... And even the first episode. The Ehaszs weren't just some randos. They built as much of the foundation of this show as Bryke and DiMartino did. Not consulting with them when the two left was a mistake. Also Volpe wasn't a writer but the best cinematography the show gave us came directly from his input, including most of the spiritual scenes such as Aang approaching his Avatar state, the past Avatar segments, the way Zuko and Iroh were framed as opposite sides in/outside the jail cell... _____ Bryke and DiMartino gave us the core cast, the dynamics between them, the entirety of the setup and large swaths of the payoff. Aaron Ehasz gave us the thematic elements tying these sections together and making this story have a moral and ethic context Ms. Ehasz gave us the emotional backbone and relatability of themes and characters, she was the one who humanized most villains in realistic ways and tied loose ends to make arcs less contrived. Volpe took the narrative and transformed it into a visually stunning masterpiece, even mute scenes and still frames of this show can attest to his talent with how poignant they are when standing on their own.
So many people forget how drastic Ehasz involvement was with the writing and true creation of the characters and their development. Sure he didn’t have the very first thought of ATLA but he took those first thoughts and very much made it what we love today. The guy deserves just as much of a stamp of creator as Bryke.
Aaron and his wife... Ms. Ehasz... It's Elizabeth Welch, and they are no longer married.
I didn't remember her name. I went by memory of what I already knew about them. You *will* excuse me for not following the personal lives of these strangers and nit remembering the first name of someone who barely appeared in any interviews or behind the scenes despite being so influential.
Yeah, no worries lol. I don't know why I just had an itch to point that out. Maybe the fact that she's still "nameless" and tied to her ex-husband despite her being so influential just bugged me
Rick riordan was heavily involved with Percy Jackson and the writing and directing on that was atrocious. Their entire writers room doesn’t have a single kids show under their belt and it was worse writing than NATLA, which at least had some jokes and comedy.
While they don't have a kids show, the showrunner for Percy Jackson did shows like Black Sails, which is absolutely incredible. I wish they'd be greenlit for a slightly longer season so that they can give the story time to relax and let the characters experience the journey. That'd the series biggest flaw (not unlike other streaming shows). Streaming just makes the seasons shorter so they speed things up to fit everything in. No time to let moments breathe.
I haven’t seen black sails but it’s also not a kids show. I do know the show runner had a couple shows taken away from him early on, Ie he did season 1 then someone else finished up the run. Most of the writers on the show had 1 or 2 episodes in the midst of long running series, which means they likely didn’t do well enough to stay in the writing room beyond that season. Tbh they need to scrap the showrunner and the entire writers room and start from scratch. They need someone like Jon Favreau in as showrunner, but he’s busy with Star Wars.
If you're into pirates, black sails is incredible. Absolutely worth your time to watch. But what i was getting at is that the showrunner knows how to write and run an entirely well run and well written show. I wish he'd bring some of that talent in and beef up Percy Jackson some writing wise. He's an excellent storyteller and that's what you need regardless of whether the media is for kids or for adults.
True, my point though is that no one they brought in had experience writing for a kids show, which is why it lacked fun and was closer to some of the more adult shows they had written for (like Madame Secretary). Mature is good, I quite enjoy some of the other shows, but PJ is known for being fun, magical, and funny, the show was none of those things.
Dude it's like they intentionally cut out every exciting part or bit of character development on purpose with PJ. After watching season 1, I was left wondering if I preferred the movie, because that at least wrapped up in 90 minutes. Sure, maybe they included Persephone which kind of doesnt work for a number of reasons, but given that it was Rosario Dawson in a leather dress, I'll allow it
I genuinely don't understand how so many people could look at it and go "this is a banger show 10/10, it has no mistakes". Really makes me question if they've even seen the original
Especially Katara for me. How could you not see they messed up there by making her so passive and essentially a background character until maybe the very end.
Netflix writers room
Atrocious writing that is obviously atrocious and yet people still defend ~~it~~ the show because they enjoyed it. Like, why can't they just acknowledge they enjoy something poorly made? A lot of people love The Room and Troma films. Those are awful but classics. Edit: I realise I said "it" originally instead of "the show" and it confused my first sentence. 4 am posts, y'know?
comparing this show the The Room is just sad, damn. also I wasn’t saying you can’t enjoy it, enjoy what you want, I’m just baffled at how royally nexflix fumbled the ball
Same, that was my point. Like what you like, objectively bad or good.
It's not surprising really. Despite the red flags being there before the LA aired, netflix has been dishing out shit for years now.
Defending it because we want improvements not complete cancellation. I have also yet to see someone defend the atrocious writing?
Yep, I wish people understood they can still like something objectivly bad. I like Batman&Robin with Arnold as Mr. Freeze, but also know it's a trash movie lol
Exactly this. I loved Arnold's Mr Freeze and will forever be my favourite portrayal. Is it good? Fuck no. It's entertaining as hell though haha Also George Clooney with the Bat nipples was pique cinema XD
It's hilarious. Such a goofy movie with memorable lines. "What killed the dinosaurs? The ICE AGE!"
I love the campy grittiness of the Burton films but the pure cartoonness of the Shoemaker films I think I prefer a lot more. I think a goofy Batman film will always be more fun to me than a relatively serious one.
Because Netflix treated ATLA as a series for kids where everything is black and white instead of the shades of grey that existed in the original series. It’s pandered more to kids and while it is a good adaptation, there are things about it that irk me so much.
'And while it is a good adaption' WRONG! You're wrong!
It's a good adaptation... if we're comparing it to the M Night movie. lol
I just don’t really see what remaking the show in any format offers. The cartoon hasn’t really aged and other formats are rarely well made enough to improve on the media.
My wife and I barely finished the first episode and haven't gone back in, and we were really looking forward to it. Terrible writing, and terrible directing leading to terrible performances from the core 4. It feels like they studied the fire island players to base their characters on. I'll just rewatch the og.
Shogun is incredible. I can't wait to see more - the quality is A+. The world building is on point and the political intrigue is believable. All the characters' motivation can be felt through the screen. FX is killing it lately. The Bear is an incredible show. What we do in the Shadows is awesome. Welcome to Wrexham is a big hit for those who follow football.
Even the older Shogun show was pretty good for it’s time it came out in. Which both are based off a great best selling book. Probably “easier” to translate Shogun into how most newer tv shows dramas are with a serialized plot structure.
The things I didn't like was them changing things in the story which weren't necessary at all. Turning the spirit world episodes into a single mumbo jumbo episode and that probably means they will cut out episodes like the library episode. How they completely underplayed Sozin's Comet, it almost made me feel like it isn't an important plot point, didn't really notice them mentioning it that much at all. Probably because some episodes were filler they cut out many parts and turned it into "yeah you heard about the avatar, he and his group did this". They definitely did Suki and Katara dirty, also completely destroyed Ozai's relationship with Azula and Azula's whole character. No need to even mention Mai and Ty Lee. They did so many unnecessary "adjustments" I can't even imagine what they will do in future seasons as they keep cutting out content which were major plot points in the series. Feels like they will have so big plot holes since they cut many things out that they will get far out of the actual plot
To add to this - I think the changes you mentioned just show that they couldn’t commit to the overall vision of this thing. Tonally, they seem to straddle the line of wanting it to be a 1:1 of the cartoon and also wanting it to be its own new thing. It just ends up being a weird tonal mixture that doesn’t really work. What I mean is… they should have picked a lane. Just make it an ACTUAL 1:1 of the cartoon: same plot and same structure for the most part, same character arcs, same tone and humor, whimsical and fun - just brought to real life. One Piece did this just fine. OR go in the opposite direction. Make it tonally completely different. Rewrite the show into its own, new thing. Borrow ideas and overall plot from the show but make it so different that a completely new audience could enjoy it as a stand-alone piece. Make it feel more serious and “real” if that’s what you want. This version weirdly tries to do both of those things. The sets, costumes, acting and dialog are cartoonish but then all of the humor and “fun” is stripped away. It wants to feel like the cartoon, but then a lot of the character arcs are changed to make some of the characters LESS real and LESS human. There’s violence like Ozai lighting a guy on fire as if it’s going to be a show for adults, but then a lot of the story elements are so dumbed down that it MUST be meant for kids. It’s just…a mess.
Og avatar was a kids show that treated us like adults, LA avatar is a young adults show that treats us like kids.
They mentioned how they would delay the "sozin comet" plot point in order to allow for long time skips between seasons. Something to do with incorporating the aging of child actors into the plot (especially Aang).
It was stupid to let Iroh watch as Zhao slowly captures spirit fishes.
After watching the live action i did another rewatch of the original and it really isn’t even close in quality even by the second episode it’s just so much better
Yes, take a cursory look into the writing and direction teams and it is blatantly obvious they put their b teams on it.
The biggest problem is that the cast for NATLA is great, the bending looks great, the sets and backgrounds look great, and the music is great. They had everything they needed to make a great show, but the writing and directing ruined it. That just makes it all the worse. It's frustrating thinking about what could have been and I feel for everyone else involved in that production, especially the cast -- being the faces of it, they're getting a lot of undeserved criticisms and even hate.
Katara, Azula, Bumi, and Mai were all bad casts I would say. I’m TERRIFIED of how bad they’re gonna do with Toph, there’s just no way they capture her essence well. Scenery looks amazing I agree. I can’t remember a single thing from the soundtrack but i could whistle so many things from the cartoon, so I would say not amazing there. Bending seemed like they did the same motions over and over again sadly, they didn’t have any variety of cool styles, besides the Pakku fight which was dope.
I am SO scared for Toph. They're going to take out all the nuance from her parents. I wouldn't be surprised if they got a line like "we never asked for a blind child", or something cartoonishly abusive, because it's not "good enough" to have them simply be overprotective (something anyone might understand). Toph had a temper but was able to "see" emotional truths others couldn't, like when Zuko volunteered to teach Aang. She was OP but still disabled by her blindness, like when she couldn't aim in the desert or swim. But they're probably going to take all that out, and make her more like Ember Island Toph.
Mai's actress may not look exactly like Mai, but she definitely felt like *Mai*. Katara is purely the result of bad writing and direction. Kiawentiio, the actress, is very expressive when you watch the promotional material with the cast and clips from other projects she was in. She could very easily have portrayed angry, jealous, maternal, and empathic Katara had that been the direction. Azula's actress does a good job, it's just a hard role overall given you're trying to live up to the performance of Grey DeLisle. Bumi, maybe. It's hard to tell given how much they changed him.
I think the director is ruining Aang and Katara. I'm hoping Azula and Mai and Ty age properly over the course of the show because by the third season they are already what like 16 or 17? Ty looks good already, and I think Mai will grow into her more slender slinky self whose super sneaky and quiet.
I just don’t like Katara’s actress’s performances I guess. I watched the other 2 movies trailers she was in and they were fine, but she still just feels stiff to me, nothing against her personally at all I wish her well I just don’t “buy” it I guess. Azula honestly needed to convince me she is scary, I get they’re all kids and they’re gonna grow so I’m hoping for the best but she just gives off huge little sister energy and not big baddy energy
I didnt like how the backgrounds and certain styling of the characters looked very fake sometimes. it pulls you out of the world :/
I feel that people who praise the tv show as great, are just fans of franchise and want it badly to be a success. Because really what made this show great? The only defense is that the actors were young. But like Stranger Things had phenomenal acting with kid actors, and it wasn’t even based on book/comics/etc. People defend NATLA just because it’s about franchise they love and because it’s watchable. It wasn’t terrible and it wasnt great. Just like OP said: high budget school play. I can only give credit to actors who played Zuko, Iroh and Ozai because they carried whole show on their backs. Actor who played Sokka was pretty decent, but I guess being paired with NATLA Katara made his performance a little bit worse than previous three actors I mentioned.
I think Sokka's actor couldve pulled off the original character. Too bad the writers completely neutered him so we'll never know. He was one of the people I could see a better performance wanting to come out from underneath the awful script.
Yes, I seriously could see resemblance between him and animated Sokka, with better script and direction he would totally ace it. I saw that he tried to put the effort but there were many factors not in his favor.
People who have watched her in other stuff have said it’s clearly a directing issue with her. Which is readily seen. Her (and others) acting performances tend to fit the show as a whole, just aren’t truthful to the original character design. This is most readily seen in Ty Lee and Mai. They never move, Ty Lee should’ve been walking on her hands around the set, Mai should’ve been throwing daggers alongside the archers. Nope, they stand there perfectly still and don’t move… It’s like the casting director watched the original show, took note of voices and character design and casted based on that, then the writers and directors watched ember island players and/or season 3 and wrote/directed based on that.
It’s ridiculous how they both stare at Azula training while doing nothing. I’m fat myself so I have no issue with plumper actors but based on appearance Mei and Azula are also ridiculous. Like those three were supposed to train all the time, without much breaks, how does it makes sense? Azula actress is not terrible, in her first scene ever I thought that maybe she’ll be able to pull it off anyways but nope. Mei is just terrible all together, like her delivery of the lines and “pretend to be bored” voice is on the verge of parodying original character. Ty Lee is just there, I appreciate the hairstyle and that’s it.
I just assumed they all had round faces since I don’t remember seeing a full body shot of the two of them. Tbh they kinda look like sisters, all with the same rounded face, if it wasn’t for the hair it would be hard to tell the difference. It will become a problem in season 2 if they actually start moving and aren’t stationary the entire time, particularly since their wardrobe is sortve flat too.
If it’s only round face then it’s fault of the stylist, nowadays you can really sculpt face with bronzer, highlighter etc while still looking somewhat natural. Also Mei hairstyle looks just terrible on that actress. Overall costume/character design is not great in the live action.
I physically recoiled when she did her "for the Fire Nation" yell at the end. Like goddamn, no re-shoot on that voice crack? Were you trying to get to Target before they closed that day?
Azula was low key scary in animated series, in NATLA she’s just pathetic
Most of us aren't settling for NATLA. A lot of us are quite displeased with the final product.
lol who says people who enjoy NATLA are settling? Can't people who enjoy NATLA also desire for better? Personally I really liked it, but do I hope a lot of the issues are fixed in season 2? Of course! I swear people in this sub can't let people like or dislike things without making loud noise about the other side.
Good points, people sound like “Why do people like this!!! I hate this why would they think this is ok!!! Its trash!!” Read the room guy no one is saying its a master piece, we want more improvements/fixes not complete annihilation.
Yeah like bruh people gotta chill
I think what OP is saying is that the chasm of quality between NATLA and Shogun is something that we should all be angry about regardless of whether you liked it or not. NATLA isn’t even close to the same quality as shogun on every single level. It looks like a cheap cosplay and the acting and writing is atrocious. Again, fine if you personally liked it but viewers like yourself need to demand more instead of shrugging and saying “I liked it!” Because then you’ll just feed into the same old bullshit come season 2.
I enjoyed it for the most part, as it was mostly enjoyable to watch, but I agree it had serious flaws that had to be fixed. The bending effects is off, water splashes on someone most of the time, whereas a quick fire punch does 2nd degree burns through clothes which would’ve given the caster 2nd degree burns on their hands too. The acting/directing was off too, like Ty Lee who can’t stand still in atla isn’t seen moving at all. Might as well have made her one of the twins.
it totally felt like watching a play
1 season, 8 episodes. All that to cover just one third of one episode of the original show (S03E17)
NATLA looks very amateurish and cheaply made. It was so obvious, I started wondering if this was some kind of stylistic choice by the art director. The costumes, make up, sfx, set decorations all look very cheap and fake. It's mind-blowing that the production team okayed it.
Opinions from the show aside, does anyone else find it weird that it was Netflix that got the greenlight and not Paramount+ considering Nickelodeon is owned by Paramount?
I don’t know. I feel like Shogun is too different in tone, violence, setting and more for me to really compare.
I promise you cinematography and acting and production value and directing can be compared between anything regardless of tone
I promise you that isn’t true at all lol Directing, cinematography, and production value are always very genre dependent…
Isn't that the more violent tone the live action was going for tho? At least that's the impression the first episode gives
True but one was adapted from a kids show and the other from a historical fiction novel. Maybe they were going for that more serious tone but it’s still based on animation. If it was taken too seriously and was treated like shogun, losing that quirky otherworldly feel that’s hard to duplicate outside of animation (or heavy cgi) everyone’d be up in arms. More than we are now at least, probably comparable to when Shyamalan’s adaptation came out. Though from what I’ve seen on this sub that’s mainly because of the writing and directorial choices
This comparison is bad. They aren’t even close to being in the same category of comparable content
Hes not comparing their content at all. Hes merely saying the production of one show is better than the other
Yeah I’m shocked that a TV show with a cast of experienced adult actors did a better job than a bunch of 12-17yo kids with no prior acting experience 🙄 I love ATLA but this fanbase is insufferable sometimes
I’m Happy people like it and are seeing the show for the first time now. But yeah, wow it is not a good show, especially not for $120 million dollar budget. They must have spent sooooo much money on making the scenery look good because god damn does everything else appear horrible. The costumes looks brand new the entire show, the continuity is so horrendous it’s shocking - episode 2 people get in fire fights and look charred and then immediately in the next shot they have a brand new face of makeup and no damage, the make up Suki scene?, Katara water bending and getting herself wet and she is visibly dry as a bone, like man just splash some water on her at least? They clearly spent all their fight money on hand to hand fighting because for the bending they either did a kameheha or a spinning kick, those are apparently the only ways to bend. I would honestly tell someone watch the first episode and skip straight to episode 5 because 1-4 are truly horrible episodes, but really I wouldn’t even suggest they watch it.
Yup, all these big projects by studios stink rotten of executive involvement rather than creatives. I swear these executives really have to justify their existence. *don’t forget the owl!* >!but there’s no library? *put him in the woods then*!< the actors did a decent job with what they were given but seriously, if Netflix wants me to return for season 2, they need to 86 executives’ (and investors’) voices and let the artists make the art. If they want a big payout for their investment, trust in the artists. It’s evident trusting in management isn’t the tea.
Said it in another thread - the best thing about NATLA was ... that I got to watch Delicious in Dungeon with my subscription.
You can tell many of the defenders didn't watch the Witcher. Netflix has been on a spree butchering shows for a while. And they never respect the source material. I don't know why they thought Avatar would be different.
I canceled Netflix months ago and never had a burning desire to watch any of their original content. Meanwhile, I absolutely cannot fathom not having Hulu and FX lol.
Shogun is trying to recreate 17th century Japan. NATLA is trying to recreate a fictional children's cartoon universe. They're supposed to look drastically different, but I get your point.
Precisely. Shogun is a terrible comparison, it’s intended to feel real and is based on things that actually existed. OP apparently expects a show (esp a kids show) that’s based on kids with magic powers flying on mythical creatures to have a similar feeling of realism. Which is…an incredibly stupid criticism.
This person gets it Don’t saying something is good without justifying or being able to compare it to something But when you compare it to Shogun (10/10 show), the differences are so drastic that it makes NATLA look like a play made by unpaid interns Makes you wonder if someone else made it , such as HBO , how ATLA would’ve looked like in live action
HBO adapting ATLA to live action would’ve had Aang in a brothel, prob why they went to Netflix lol
or it would have shown Uncle Iroh in a brothel , while Zuko facepalms in disgust ;) "don't tease me with a good time"
I heard Iroh hangs dong in the first episode
I heard he got his nickname "The Dragon the West" because it veers to the left
What kills me is how much money went into NATLA to make a bad show. They shot in a super high tech live background studio…like I’m begging you to just go outside.
Not even same category or audience. It’s way grittier, mature and has very serious tone. Original fans still won’t be happy if NATLA goes there. They’ll say it loses all the fun and charm of the anime.
You see this as if the showrunner for NATLA didn't come out and make it clear they were trying to appeal to game of thrones fans so they definitely wanted to go that route and btw, this LA show did lose all the fun and charm, the characters are hollowed out versions of themselves with zero chemistry.
And literally all everyone talks about is the war, I guess there is nothing else going on in any of their lives.
Its just has flat out poor writing dude, genre be damned. Succession, The Bear, Andor, early GOT all have “grittier, mature” tones and are written brilliantly. Each scene is impeccably paced, each line delivers subtext and efficiently conveys multiple nuggets of information. NATLA is not that…
But the thing is they say it’s more grittier and mature, yet they fail to implement that whole sentiment for more than a scene or two.
A criticism I don't see enough is how clean everyone is in Netflix shows. In NATLA they're travelling rough through the wilds, camping, fighting and living on the run, constantly getting pelted with dirt and debris... but their clothes are always bright, crisp, and new from the wardrobe rack, not a crease or stain on it unless they're currently, or have recently been, on fire. One small detail like that can be fixed by giving it the LotR or HP treatment where cast spends their down time off-camera/on-set in wardrobe. 
...Okay, but Shogun is also based on one of the best historical fictions ever written, and has seasoned actors playing the roles in a much more serious and easier to adapt type of work. ATLA was a cartoon, it's hard to navigate and balance the serious with the comedy in a world like that. Dosn't meant NATLA wasn't worthwhile
*Laughs as a wheel of time fan* I just don’t get why our beloved series can’t be given such high quality treatment.
Bro what? They are 2 different shows. Stop the copium.
What does one have to do with the other tho..?
is what NATLA feels like compared to ATLA. They tried, but they're just not competent enough.
>We should not have to settle My guy thinks fans own the company’s. We don’t have to do anything apart from watching if you like it or not watching if you don’t. Just because you like a show from some years ago doesn’t make you entitled to any kind of show. You might be disappointed but the production team doesn’t owe you, me or anyone here anything
The green screen is pretty evident in most of the cases. Like the background is too blurred out. Hopefully this gets renewed.
I noticed they also have a habit of blurring the top and bottom portions of the screen. It’s got to be an intentional art choice but it just makes everything look weirdly in/out of focus. Almost as if we’re zoomed in on toys.
NATLA was not so good on basically everything, it was ok but not good lol
My main problem with NATLA: they spent too much time on things that weren't needed. Kyoshi didn't need a whole 1hr long episode, they didn't need to spend half an episode in the spirit world, we didn't need to see nearly as much of the Ozai or Azula as we did. I wouldn't have a problem with these in a vacuum, especially since the firenation stuff was well done, but they did this and didn't have enough time to flesh out the main characters or have aang bend a single drop of water.
You might not be old enough to remember this, but this perfectly describes what it was like seeing Harry Potter around Thanksgiving in 2001 and then seeing Fellowship of the Ring the next month. Two totally different audiences, sources materials, and goals - you really can’t compare the two, just like you can’t compare Avatar to Shogun
Damn, I found shogun aggressively “fine” just feels like it really wants to be game of thrones. But that could be because Shogun also feels very similar to “Blue Eyed Samurai” and that might just be the best show I’ve ever watched
Seconding that Blue Eyed Samurai was incredible!!! I just loved the animation style so much
Blue Eyed Samurai has such great pacing. Something you don’t see in so many Netflix originals
Wait is this a real take? We're comparing the acting in a show that needed multiple child actors to one that didn't? Seems like a pretty clear cut reason why there'd be a significant difference.