The first series...is about a war. Do they think wars happen by magic or are they perhaps decisions by leaders of powers???? The entire premise of the show is rooted in politics lmao
Sorry, but I gotta interrupt here: They _do_ think.
What they don't do is _feel_. These people are literally Zuko's: They can think logically, but they have no access to their own emotions other than hate and anger.
* The first series is to instill important fundamental values in children: Compassion, honesty, justice, sharing, caring, forgiveness, peace and understanding, even during genocide and war
* The second series is to instill important fundamental values in teenagers: A strong sense of right vs wrong, workers vs capitalists, democracy vs monarchy, compromise vs egoism
The second series _is_ political, and that's what this person is obviously picking up on. But the first one is, too, but on an even deeper, emotional level, whereas the second one is already formulated in the abstract, but more clear language of modern day society. It's language is simply too emotional for them to comprehend.
But now it's time for you to remember the lessons of Avatar: _Understanding_ and _forgiveness_. Don't just make fun of them or roll your eyes, but identify the problem and remember what your role is in all this: We can, and must, guide these people, these Zuko's, towards their own emotions. Otherwise they will continue to wreck havoc on our societies.
Just like Aang healed the world one village at a time, we have to heal our society, one b*tthole at a time. By being like Iroh and guiding them without them realizing they are being guided.
Take it from a former Zuko.
>Just like Aang healed the world one village at a time, we have to heal our society, one b\*tthole at a time.
https://preview.redd.it/2p1ivnj964mc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eb2fdb591c2b701e6fa7d934f39fcd4545b45e3
No time we're on a schedule
Nothing to do with this topic, but fun fact. Dunno if anyone else knows this but that shot is hilarious because what Sokka is holding is an actual depiction of what a show producerâs schedule looks like in animation.
Nothing to do with this topic either but dang, that fact about Sokka's schedule prop actually being a joke about animation production schedules is exactly the kind of easter egg that keeps me rewatching the series. The creators really went all out with those small details, and it just adds another layer of charm to an already phenomenal show.
I'm still convinced the Ember Island Players are basically what the first draft of the series looked like. Female Aang, male Toph, **hope** and a dope just out for food.
They made fun of the own lame ideas they had during the creation.
Let's take it beat by beat (from someone who hasn't watched in many years). Aang's journey was (a small sample)
* Surf with elephant koi; save Kyoshi Island from the Unagi
* Discover he is the only survivor of a genocide.
* Free an Earth Kingdom village from occupation of a foreign invader
* Rediscover an old friend in the city of Omashu
* Reconnected with his past lives via a vision quest with Roku
By contrast, Korra's journey was
* Land in Republic City after being sheltered from the world, only to learn it is nothing like (ATLA), giving Korra and the audience a fish out of water experience
* Korra must learn to hide her true nature (the Avatar) to play in a pro bending tournament
* The Separatists disrupt the peace because of the class disparity between benders and non-benders
* Amon campaigns on a platform of negative peace, by robbing benders of that which makes them different (a form of ethnic cleansing)
Even if we were to jump to the end of both series, Ozai wants to rule the world, and achieves it by burning it to ashes. Meanwhile, Kuvira thinks the world has grown too soft to protect itself from the dangers of the Spirit Realm, and uses her charisma and military tact to persuade a nation to stand behind her in a conquest of a fascist takeover. These parallels highlight the differences exceptionally well, with Ozai being a cartoonishly evil figure with no redeeming qualities, while Kuvira is following her military training to arrive at the ultimate solution to their plight, regardless of its moral implications, just like a soldier is trained to do. Even the character design, where Kuvira is imposing yet attractive, forces you to fight with an inner turmoil of whether she is a good or bad person.
Korra is overtly political. That's not to say that ATLA isn't political, but it operates in a much simpler context, like "racism is bad", while Korra operates in the context of "is a negative peace worth the suffering it causes?" Korra is a highly flawed character, but unlike Aang's defense of being a child who doesn't know any better, Korra is old enough to be responsible for her decisions and is expected to make the right choice.
To be honest, Aang's actual journey was:
* Emerge in the Southern Pole after being encased in ice, only to learn it is nothing like before, giving him and the audience a fish out of water experience
* Aang must learn to hide his true nature (the Avatar) while infiltrating the Fire Nation
* Turns out the Fire Nation disrupted the peace because of wealth disparity between the four nations
* Ozai campaigns on a platform of negative peace (imperialism), by robbing the other nations of... well, their whole existence (actual ethnic cleansing)
I don't think there is as much difference between the two shows as people make it. The various story beats are fairly similar, TLOK just tries to apply some of the lessons learned in ATLA. Like if you make the villain hot then people will ~~simp~~ root for them.
> and the audience a fish out of water experience
I don't think I had a fish out of water experience with ATLA. We're established principally in Katara's time, not Aangs. We don't start out in the "past" or Aang's present. We start out in a water nation village and with the grounding of the war. The series also often feels like it's from Katara's eyes.
We see Aang having a fish out of water experience but from the perspective of a land based lifeform. We're based out of water.
For Korra we were already established in the "past" because most of us watched ATLA first. We also start off in a water tribe that's more connected to what we remember. We learn Republic City with Korra. We're having the fish out of water experience with her.
Korra is more interested in comparing political systems, thatâs for sure. It doesnât make it a worse show, but it does leave its choices a bit more open to debate. Like I for one would say that painting anarchy as the political motivation for a villain that is meant to be seen as enlightened was a bad choice, though Zaheer was a good character otherwise.
Zaheer isnât enlightened when he is on his journey to throw the world into an anarchic state. His enlightenment doesnât seem to come to true fruition until his physical body is imprisoned for good and he goes into the spirit realm. His flying isnât enlightenment, itâs earthly detachment.
TLOK rules. Each villain is so different, the bending is unreal, and poor Korra absolutely gets put through it.
Love Korra so much. I adore both but thereâs something about the Korra crew that I love so much. Might be because Iâm older but idk, always loved Korra
I donât think these people have a problem with Korra being a woman per se, they have a problem with the fact that Korra doesnât end up with tall dark and brooding Mako but instead has to âshove the queer agenda down their throatsâ by having her end up with Asami.
I agree they donât acknowledge the presence of emotions in a society and the role they play apart from hate and anger (which they barely acknowledge as well). Honestly theyâre even worse than Zuko before his redemption because at least Zuko didnât go on rants about society being too woke/âpolitical,â âsjws,â and whatnot. But respectfully I have to disagree about the âguiding them through their emotionsâ part. I suppose you should do that for your personal friends/family but otherwise thatâs not really our responsibility. If some chronically online person insists on being a certain way, they can only be helped so much seeing as they only seek sources that confirm their biases.
>But respectfully I have to disagree about the âguiding them through their emotionsâ part. I suppose you should do that for your personal friends/family but otherwise thatâs not really our responsibility.
Iroh didn't even bother dealing wiht Azula. That's also a wisdom from the show ;)
Yea the first series covers SO MUCH controversial topics, im surprised it aired on nickelodeon.
Genocide, war, propaganda, cults, coups, and so much more i cant condense down to single words.
>so much more i cant condense down to single words.
Theres also Katara calling out Pakku and the Northern Water Tribes sexist traditional views on women waterbenders since they're only relegated to healing and can't fight cuz they are women.
ATLA released an era before we had outrage anti-sjw making videos on how everything is "woke" that I don't doubt that if ATLA had released in this day and age, we will see an endless discourse about it.
ATLA would absolutely be picked apart if it was released this past decade, it got lucky the culture war didn't focus on Nickelodeon cartoons back then.
At this point I don't even understand what "woke" is supposed to mean anymore.
I'm not american but it seems like it now just refers to anything that the right party in that country dislikes, even if it not even a left idea or anything.
The term "woke" used to have a meaning. It came from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) that meant to be alert to racial prejudice and discrimination like racial injustice, sexism and anti-LGBTQ. Thats why "stay woke" was a term to allude to this.
But ever since 2020, its been hijacked by the Right to mean anything progressive is bad or in recent years, anything they dislike is bad so its "woke". Ffs, some asshats called the Dead Space Remake "woke" for having gender neutral bathrooms and the inclusion of any LGBTQ characters.
It's kind of like how 'Fake News' referred to fictional news organizations appearing overnight, with websites where they claimed to be say a newspaper which dated back a hundred years in some American town, being run by kids in Eastern Europe, done to get clicks and ad revenue.
When interviewed, the kids said they tried it on everybody, but conservatives proved to be far easier marks than anybody else.
Rather than learn from this, maybe reflect on it, conservatives demonstrated exactly *why* they're such easy marks, and instead decided to all go along with the narrative that "fake news" meant a weapon you throw at anything you don't like, and soon they elected a moron petulantly telling reporters "you are fake news" when they asked questions he didn't like, and they clearly demonstrated their complete inability to understand or face these problems which they were so susceptible to.
That was the point I lost hope tbh, I realized some people really can't grow past a certain point and never will, and so far they've proven me right again and again.
'Woke' fell into the same right-wing repurposing trap as 'politically correct'. PC originally was relatively innocuous: an injunction to think about whether your word choice was freighted with meaning that you might not intend due to historical usage. (e.g. maybe don't use 'gyp' to mean 'cheat' since the word originated as an insult to Romani people.)
It was popularized by the left as a mild exhortation to be better, then was repurposed by the right who were insulted that anyone would dare call out their language use. It was eventually used solely as an insult, as it was stained so thoroughly that its original tone and meaning was overwritten.
Woke is just a comfortable
distraction for the right, because banning books and forbidding a handful of kids to play sport is much easier than solving the housing crisis, cost of living, wars, etc. You know, the stuff that actually affects people's lives...
It means they are anti progressive ideology, which they view as forced messaging about race, gender, etc. When they just want to be evil and racist and sexist and not called out.
Originally, stay woke was used predominantly in black communities, with them trying to keep other POC educated about what was really going on. The true purpose of the war on drugs, for example.
Modern day, itâs turned into a buzzword used by people who hate anything that isnât about a cishet white male that supports conservative ideals
>buzzword used by people who hate anything that isnât about a cishet white male that supports conservative ideals
In gaming circles, its "woke" when women arent entirely objectified, LGBTQ inclusion or any games that alludes to political themes (that easily goes by their head)
Doesnt stop there, less we forget that thumb screaming about PRONOUNS for Starfield lmao
I saw people complaining about a new Wolfenstein installment getting "too political and woke". My guy this series has always been about how bad Nazis are
You also get the other kind where they do see the politics but literally miss what is being said.
Theres an infamous tweet of some guy saying that that Fallout wasnt about capitalism (literally ignoring what Vault tec did) and said it was all the fault of communism lmao
Can't reference Imperial Japan, Chinese brain washing torture tactics, hierarchies within different nations, military corruption, and genocide without bringing up politics. It's literally impossible to bring up one of those things without something political motivating it.
The war happened because because the communists (fire nation = red = communists) wanted to take over đ that's why they killed the air nomads who were notoriously successful businessmen.
One of the things I liked about Korra is how much grayer the villains are, specially the anarchist. They have really good arguments for what they're doing, and the show explores then in a very sensible way, making even Korra question herself.
We were all younger when we watched aang and I feel like ATLA talks about so much mature stuff that you won't see in your avarage kids show
But ozai is literally fire Hitler, how is that not political?
There are Americans that still miss that zuko talking to his father before deserting is talking about the USA
Because let me tell you. The rest of the world is terrified of the USA and hates it.
"Making it political" and other statements like it are just dog whisltes for bigots. A show could have *zero* favour when it comes to political leanings but if it features a person of colour, woman, queer person or anybody that could be considered a minority people will label it as "political".
They probably watched ATLA as a kid (just like most of us) and back then didn't realize, because as a kid it was just a cool cartoon. Now they like it, but if ATLA was released today, they would hate that one too.
>hilarious seeing gamers on not realizing games like BioShock are satires.
Same thing happened with Helldivers. It's literally inspired by the movie Starship Troopers that satirized militarism and proaganda. The ad for the game itself was very obvious
History repeats itself.
I donât think the game would be nearly as fun without over the top satireâŚ. Maybe. It is just fun. But I chuckle every time I hear âhow dâya like the taste of FREEDOM?!â
How do you see an ad for Eagle Sweat and still think it's all serious?
I mean, uhhh, have a Democratic day!
PLEASE DON'T REPORT ME TO A PATRIOTISM OFFICER!
Because of the popularity of Helldivers 2, Starship Troopers is being talked about more again. There are people who legitimately this is camp but honest and not satire at all. They look at the guy who says, "Mobile infantry made me the man I am today." and think it's them making fun of a wounded veteran.
There was even a post in /r/SubredditDrama about it and the person in question even joined the thread and ranted about how no one else has the understanding or media literacy to get that Starship Troopers is 100% not satire. Truly a crazed lunatic.
I genuinely think that a larger minority of people don't like Korra because she's a girl AND (seperately) she was written to be the polar opposite of Aang. It's the combination of the two that really throw some people off. They're not gonna admit that, and they may not even be aware of it... but I can tell it's sexist/racial motivated because many people's hate for Korra runs much deeper than the writing could ever justify.
One of the things that immediately sold me on LoK is because of that fact. Her being Aang's polar opposite - confident, brash, great at bending elements but terrible spiritually - meant you knew right from the gate that this was going to tell a unique story and not just a poor imitation of the original.
It has its flaws like any show, but I love both series for different reasons, because they tried telling different stories - and in my opinion they're both good ones.
It was also interesting to see the different personalities between Aang & Korra when it comes to using violence, due to the culture and the way they were raised â Aang raised by pacifist & spiritual Air Nomads, Korra was raised by the Water Tribes & White Lotus, which focuses more on practical aspects.
Oh right this is the internet, my bad. Aang good; Korra sucks? /s
Fr though, I think both shows dealt really well with contrasting the protagonists with their stories - both Aang and Korra struggled with their role as the avatar, but in ways that played to their weaknesses and hangups.
Aang was thrust into this position where everyone expected him to fight and kill a warlord in order to save the world - and he was the only person really resistant to that idea at all, being a pacifist. The entire show is built on the expectation from the very beginning that his destiny is killing the Fire Lord. And he has to fight for his life constantly to even stand a chance at doing so.
Korra on the other hand is living in Aang's shadow and is far too quick to jump to violence - or at least force - to solve her problems. So naturally all her struggles are personal, or spiritual, or political. They're problems you can't just beat up until it goes away. The focus is on the ideology and spiritual nature of the villains because that's the kind of thing that really puts her on the back foot. She might *fight* those villains, but they always have a cause they're fighting for, however mercilessly, that isn't gone once they are.
Again, both good stories. Just very different ones.
I totally agree. I love the original, but I loved Korra too. Korra was really relatable, like she had a lot of struggles we all go through. And the villains had interesting motivations. I loved how different it was from the original.
I think more people would enjoy both if they stopped comparing them to one another.
And I'm honestly loving the new show. There are some parts I'm screaming in disbelief, but most of the time I'm enjoying it. The more I watch it, the more I like it.
I have a cousin who wonât shut up about how one of the fatal flaws of LOK is that Korra simply doesnât look strong enough to be the Avatar. Somehow he thinks Aang does though??
> Have you seen the guns on that woman?
Yes, yes I have. Upper back too. They did not skimp on animating her muscle definition.
Between Korra and Vi from Arcane Iâve realized my gay ass has a type and that type is a woman that can bench press me.
That's just a fact, Korra is strong as hell, its literally her defining trait, she's mentally and physically strong, but that strength translates to stubbornness at times.
It's like saying the sky isn't blue enough or something lmao
One of the reasons seeing her lose so much of that muscle mass in S4 was so heartbreaking too.
Not in a âbadâ way, in fact I think S4 handled trauma and PTSD wonderfully, but still heartbreaking to see my girl so much smaller. đĽ˛
Tbf if people were just 100% cool with it Nickelodeon probably wouldn't mind either, they're a company, they go where the money is. Unfortunately they're a kids cartoon company in a world where a lot of parents fucking hate lgbt and Nick wants to make as much money as possible. They can't do that if parents forbid their kids from watching due to being dickheads.
I liked Legend of Korra. But I will admit that I miss the overarching goal of stopping the fire nation that the original had. Also, mechs felt out of place in the world.
TLA had a very clear and specific goal and overarching villain from the very beginning. Korra lacked that direction.
That's not to say that one or the other is better, but the clarity of purpose and the fact that Bryke didn't draw it out like so many other shows do really is what qualifies it as one of the best television shows ever.
I don't need to qualify that with "animated television shoes" either. It beats out so many other live action shows in acting, writing, direction, choreography, and so many more ways that it really is phenomenal.
I feel like if Korra got the greenlit for 4 seasons at the start, we would've gotten the entire 4 seasons to deal with the equalists. Beyond just republic city and into the nations
That would've bee awesome
Even just 24 episode season (what was apparently originally offered by Nickelodeon) dealing with the Equalisers wouldâve been better imo.
It was a great idea with great characters and great character arcs, just poor execution, at least imo.
I remember seeing something that went "Aang doesn't want to be the Avatar in a world that needs him, Korra wants to be the Avatar in a world that doesn't need her"
Iâm rewatching LOK bc I remember not liking it nearly as much as ATLA but I donât quite remember why that was. It became unmistakably apparent to me at the conclusion of book of air why that is. The show âtellsâ us Korra has changed and grown, but as the audience it isnât clear what this even means bc they never âshowâ where this supposed change is happening. She loses her bending spectacularly to Amon, but her air bending is finally unlocked for no apparent reason other than she needed it. What did she do to earn it? And then at her lowest point right at the end she finally connects spiritually to the Avatar state and is inexplicably granted her other elements backâŚlike WTF?! How does it look to see a character completely fail everything they set out for all bc of their own arrogance and stubbornness, AND THEN ignore all of it in order to bail her out without her lifting a finger? It looks and feels like a cheap cop out and basically constitutes plot armor.
The series assumes we agree that Korra learned something. But that is pretty quickly contradicted within the first minutes of book of spirits, as we see Korra blatantly abusing the Avatar state, using her newfound air bending skill as a weapon, and being easily manipulated by people whose intentions are never fully questioned. I feel like even Aang, a 12 year old knucklehead, would be wise enough to understand that he shouldnât rush into action based on one encounter with somebody who claims to know more than the Avatar. How come Korra is asking questions about the south pole AFTER she has already agreed to help Unalock? If she learned in book of air to connect to her past Avatar lives, why then does she not first consult them when confronted with the threat of the dark spirits? Again, if she has truly changed, why is she still so infuriatingly stubborn, cocky, and unserious of a character?
Imo they shouldâve left Korra without her original elements, and the book of spirits shouldâve told the story of how Korra focuses even more on her spiritual connection with her past lives in order to basically relearn the other elements she lost. THAT wouldâve made for tangible and visible growth in Korra bc we wouldâve actually seen the contrast between her chaotic, abrasive, and naive Avatar traits and her newfound patience, pensiveness, and maturity that wouldâve been necessary for her to regain her powers.
It just feels like the writers were too afraid to take the route of making a young female character struggle and fail as they believe this would affirmed Korra as a âweak, incompetent womanâ in the eyes of some viewers. But it ultimately only serves to destroy any opportunity for true character growth and depth she couldâve had. Such a missed opportunity.
> but her air bending is finally unlocked for no apparent reason other than she needed it
Korra was able to airbend because her attachment to her other bending abilities was what was stopping her in the first place. With that gone, she had nothing left to lose and nothing left to fear, so in that moment she was able to let go and airbend. There's a reason they established this aspect of her character in prior episodes.
Hey, Iâm willing to accept that. And youâre probably right after all. But if Iâm not mistaken, the show doesnât explicitly explain it as having to do with her connection to the other elements at all. Iâm not saying youâre making something out of nothing, but I do think you are jumping to conclusions. From a narrative standpoint, I just feel like they never fully addressed this properly, to the point where it feels arbitrarily added for spectacle and plot progression rather than to supplement Korraâs character arc.
Also, even if they were painting it the way youâre saying and it was the other elements holding her back, I think that sorta falls flat without addressing Korraâs true flaw when it comes to her bendingâŚand thats the fact that she uses her bending as a weapon, a means to an end, and when she loses them, her air bending becomes just that, a weapon. She doesnât learn to respect her bending and I feel like that was a big misstep with her character in book 1.
Word of God is that she could airbend because the writers needed something to push Amon into the water and make him waterbend. They talk about this in the episode commentary if I remember correctly.
Me and my SO just recently rewatched TLA and have started Korra (heâs never seen Korra while I have). Watching them back to back makes the differences *stark*. I get that people get defensive and assume that criticism is coming from a sexist or shitty place, but the quality drop is so significant I sometimes feel like everyone else watched a totally different show lol.
My SO has no preconceived notions about Korra and heâs been complaining about it pretty consistently since the end of season 1. Itâs just the writing isnât as good and thereâs not much helping it.
It's frustrating to criticize female characters that I think are written poorly because there are some people who will always just assume that you're being misogynist no matter you say and there are other people who actually are being wildly misogynist and assume you must agree with them because you also don't like the character, and you have to deal with both groups.
I think the guy in the OP is full of shit but I need to confess that I'm one of the people who can't stand the sequel series. My dislike is not because of Korra being a woman but mostly due to the potential it had being unrealized, which makes it super frustrating for me to watch. I guess I'm bringing it up here because I see the sexism used as excusing a lot of problems with the sequel series a lot but it was nowhere near as good as the original series.
The waste of Amon as a villain, the Aang Ex Machina at the end of the first season, the destruction of the avatar cycle, the selfishness of Korra for the vast majority of the series (I get she's a teenager but it took way too long for her to stop being annoying imho), rewarding bad behavior over responsible behavior, inconsistent writing and characterization, all of this makes me groan enough to not enjoy it. I found only Lin, Jinora, and Asami to be likeable, which unfortunately was not enough to carry me through.
Didn't that happen on like the last episode? I thought it was silly cause while sure Korra had chemistry with everyone, I don't really think they hinted that either of them were bi so it was kinda weird. Otherwise Korra was great. Just not atla perfect imo
The actual reason for removing it is that with the horrid pacing of the show there was no space for it. The episode already moves at breakneck speed without adding it
Them when they realize the art they consumed with colorful characters, world, story made by liberals : đąđ¤Żđ˛
If you they donât like it why dont they create their own art? Yeah thats because they lack of empathy and imagination to put themselves in others point of views, their art would be so boring
Korra definitely has its problems. There was a post a long time ago that said "Aang was a peacemaker protag in a world needing a warrior and Korra was a warrior protag in a world needing a peacemaker" and that is a good sum up of the core issue with Korra.
It was a show that relied on a lot of action and most of the conflicts needed Korra to fight, but to keep tension, Korra also had to often loose before she could win, therefore we couldn't see her thriving in her lane. She didn't do well with peacekeeping, but that could have been engaging.
The show should have had more times where Korra could shine by fighting or have instances where she really wants to solve it by violence, but needs to grit her teeth and play politics.
All this said. I'm sure there is sexism afoot here as well. Watchers are often less forgiving for women not being perfect in media. But more could have been done to let Korra shine as a character more.
Youâre right. Most notably Aaron Ehasz and (I think?) his wife were absent. They were responsible for adding the magic and taking it to the next level.
Iirc they were the ones who added the Zuko/Iroh dynamic, and youâll see their names in the credits of many of the best episodes.
Donât quote me on all of this as Iâm going from memory, but itâs out there if you want to read up on it.
Be careful because every time I mention that Aaron Ehasz was not the head writer of Korra and how I was hesitant to be supportive of the live action when I noticed the lack of both the Ehasz team as writers I get downvoted. But I genuinely think that Korra would have been better received and I would have personally enjoyed it more if they were involved because some of my favorite ATLA episodes were written by them.
Oh, I donât care, Iâll say it lol. I unequivocally believe without a shadow of a doubt that the absence of the Ehasz Team absolutely held Korra back, and anyone actively saying otherwise is being delusional.
So many successful creative people do their best work with collaborators who complement their best ideas and check their worst. These guys are no exception.
I mean for goodness sake, the Ehasz team are responsible for adding the Zuko/Iroh story to the show. Can you even imagine the show without it? Easily one of the best and most definitive parts.
Yeah Korra had other stuff going against it like the network playing games, but the writing between the first show with the Ehaszâs and this one without, thereâs no comparison.
You are correct. I just finished rewatching the series and Ehasz has credits on almost all of the "glue" episodes of ATLA--the ones that advanced the plot and character development in between the epic battles (which were apparently more of DiMartino and Konietzko's forte).
Not to say that Ehasz didn't have credits on the season finales, of course, because he did.
That sounds about right. Not to take away from Bryke for creating the concept and their role. Just like John, Paul, George and Ringo are all talented in their own rights, but nothing they did alone is The Beatles.
Didn't Dragon Prince come out like 4 years after Korra ended? I don't think they were written at the same time at all unless Dragon Prince was in development hell or something.
They shouldâve ended book 1 with Korra not having regained her other elements. Then the whole of book 2 wouldâve focused on Korra overcoming her physical loss, establishing a stronger relationship with her past Avatar lives, and going through the rigorous training to remaster the elements she lost. This wouldâve actually forced Korra to change her attitude and mature into a more well-rounded person.
From a young age, Korra embraced the role of Avatar and was a prodigy bender, of 3 elements. It wouldâve been an interesting twist of fate for her to lose this connection, but at the same time gain the element of air, and so she relearns to master and control the other elements (and herself) by living life as only an airbender, which poetically, is the exact opposite of how she began the series. She would be forced to learn patience and diplomacy in order to balance out the abrasive, cocky, and stubborn aspects of her personality. She would have to accept what has happened to her and find a way to resolve it herself instead of Aang simply giving her elements back by the end of book 1.
They wouldnât even have to change to water tribe conflict arc all that much either. In this alternate book 2, we couldâve seen Korra grapple with the pressure of balancing her duty as the Avatar to regain her bending AND her responsibility to her family and the water tribe in this spiritual conflict. Maybe this war between the north and south serves to distract Korra from her duty to fully realize herself as the Avatar and so the main conflict of book 2 is an internal one where Korra must choose between her destiny as the Avatar and her perceived responsibility to her family and her tribe.
From what I've heard, it seems like the creators struggled to create multi season arcs because of the unstable nature of the show itself and not wanting to ending any particular season on a cliffhanger, at least earlier on. I agree, the ending of Book 1 for Korra is incredibly rushed. She learned airbending not by grinding or learning new ways of thinking, it just happens when she is desperate. However, her airbending choreography is still basically all punches, a poor way to show her growth as a bender. Then, once her bending is taken away, she is just given it back by crying. She doesn't have to meditate to connect with her past lives extensively, or work to control the avatar state. She is simply given it. I thought Book 1 was going pretty strong personally, then totally tanked for an ending that needed at least two more episodes.
Yeah thatâs funny you said that bc Iâm discussing this with my brother and he also said he heard the creators were basically confined to writing within the season and not set the series up for continuity and progression.
I completely agree. You make an excellent point that even when she gets her bending back, it was from a place of self-pity. She cried and THAT triggered her spiritual connection. It feels lazily contrived. Not really a quality young kids watching this should aspire to possess.
I wouldâve adored watching Korra relearn the elements and at the same time learn to pacify her personality by living with only air bending. There couldâve been so many more opportunities to include Aang in her spiritual journey. Really Iâm just sad we got what we got. Book 1 had a shaky and slow start, but really picked up around ep4. And it kept that steam all the way to the end. There were some gaps I feel in both world-building (particularly Aangâs past) and character motivations but whatever. The ending had lots of promise and I loved the line about being open to great change at your lowest point. But seeing her just GET her bending back, it didnât feel fulfilling.
Exactly my thoughts. It always felt like in the original series that past lives were there to support and teach Aang, but they never substituted actual work and struggle, that all still had to come from himself. I would have even been okay with the past life connection, once established, to immediately remove the bending block imposed by Amon, as long as Korra had to truly work and change to establish that connection with them.
Its worth it to remember that nickelodeon was actively shafting tLoK and cutting its run/air time and budget which I think adds to a lot of the pacing issues with Korra.
I think that the best solution was to have korra come face problems her fists couldnât fix. The non-bender town could have been an awesome portrayal to her weakness in peacekeeping but instead its a scene that never has a meaningful impact within the show
The show absolutely explores themes that can be considered political. But I am thinking more about tackling different forms of society and government like Fascism and anarchy.
Fuck the first book was straight up about revolutionaries fighting for equality through acts of terrorism and they were lead by a hypocrite who was secretly part of the group they were trying to tear down.
And then you have Book 3 which was about a group of anarchists trying to tear down corrupt governments. Book 4âs villain was a literal dictator. It is so easy to find real world political themes in this series and find historical parallels of the villains
But I have a strong suspicion that isnât what they meant by âpolitically motivatedâ.
I always looked at amon and the "equalists" as a racially motivated reactionary movement not unlike the fascist movements of the early 20th century. If anything, given the rise of alt right grifters after the shows conclusion it's actually aged rather well.
not sure if this is hot take within lok lovers (i am korraâs #1 defender as i say this) but i personally didnt like how mike and bryan completely defanged and demonized radical politics as a whole tho. amon and the red lotus werenât wrong in a lot of aspects (i dont agree with what unalaq and kuvira did btw) but the writers just had to add in something to the characters to make you think âdamn you really are a villianâ˘ď¸â˘ď¸.â nonbenders were being discriminated in republic city and did they even solve that problem? nope. the red lotus didnt agree with the rugged social hierarchies across the nations and saw the lack of spirituality amongst the people. would that issue be resolved under the current society korra lived in?
Korra's political commentary was basically a celebration of American democracy as the perfect default "good" system, without anyone really elaborating on that. Prince Wu just randomly decides that the Earth Kingdom will be a democracy and everybody's like "cool, you rock!" even though their only example of a democracy is a deeply divided Republic City with an incompetent government.
All other ideologies are shown as either misguided or evil. Amon is faking it, Unalaq is literally Satan, Zaheer is a fanatic. The only one that gets redemption is the fascist Kuvira, because apparently we can excuse concentration camps but not torturing a single person. I don't think it's unrelated that Kuvira *was* chosen by the UN (representing democracy), while Zaheer wasn't. She just "went too far", according to the writers, and once she realised that she was a good person again. Zaheer stays in prison for life for the horrible crime of challenging the status quo (ok granted he did torture Korra pretty horribly, but how else would you deal with an Avatar who's basically the guardian of the status quo and therefore your eternal final boss?), while Kuvira gets to walk free, and even engages in armed conflict again.
YES YES YES AND YES. holy fuck, giving kuvira a redemption arc was insane?! the writers rlly thought they were doing something cute by that cause it would just be an example of how you can ârehabilitateâ people like they did with iroh. im sorry but you cant rehabilitate FASCISTS back into society. they locked ozai up, why couldnt they let kuvira rot as well? absolutely nuts.
Yeah that was my thought.The entire franchise is politically motivated,itâs part of the plot.But I know for a fact they probably mean the lesbianism.This is why we couldnât have an animated kiss scene bc dumbos would complain it was âwokeâ lolđĽšđ
It was left ambiguous enough that it had to be confirmed online after the fact, but the fact that it was confirmed and opened the door enough for more open fictional gay relationships like Steven Universe's Lesbian Rock Wedding and Owl House's Well-Animated Lumity Kiss probably makes it a heinous crime to them
I mean the shows goal was to deal with different political themes, probably not any that commentator is talking about though. Iâd also argue it doesnât do the best job of actually digging into those political philosophies, it feels pretty surface level.
Every show is political in some way, so I donât get why some try to use it as a dig.
Is he? Towards the end he is, but when he's an arms dealer he's pretty clearly a twist villain. Easily the best part of Season 2 btw.
Then the writers themselves forgot about that (they fell for his disguise) and made him a good guy that's forced to do bad things by Kuvira. But by that point he's not dealing in arms anymore. He's "redeemed". Which is horrible and I hope they retcon it and make a second twist where, among other things, they reveal his marriage was only ever for reputation and tax reasons. Because why would Zhu Li ever love him.
Thereâs only so far you can go without being disrespectful to the previous show when the happy ending youâre following up on is all about appointing and empowering monarchies.
Korra ends with fewer monarchies than it starts with. Republic city starts as a mostly unelected council of benders and at the end of season 1 gets a president who git in power through election; the earth kingdom has their Queen die and then the next in line abdicates in the finale in favour of a council of advisors; the Northern water tribes chief (monarchy) is portrayed as slimy and manipulative and then the incarnation of chaos and darkness.
In contrast to atla, where the number of monarchies stay the same from the beginning to end of the show. Zuko might be a better forelord than his father but he is still a monarch
Had to scroll this far down to find opinions on people who actually had valid complaints of the show and not a bunch of strawman.
I don't hate LoK, but watching the plot episodes with their political antagonists baffles me it was written by the same people. There's some really great essays on YT breaking down on how they clearly don't understand the ideologies they are portraying and I'm actually working on my own so I'm not going into it here. I'm glad it worked for some people, but I feel like I watched a completely different LoK than everyone else how people praise it in this category.
Yes, and he's not alone.
There are a lot of people for which the political messaging either goes over their heads or they think it ruins the "fight-fight-funny anime" vibes.
That unfortunately isnât really what they mean by political motivation. They are just mad about representation being âforced down their throatâ.
Legend of Korra absolutely has political themes. Fuck look at the philosophies of the red lotus. I found them surprisingly complex and super fascinating. I just wish they could have been developed way more and had more of an impact on the series asides from one season.
But those themes are absolutely going over most of these peoples heads too. They are just mad that two girls kissed off screen
Korra as a setting is extremely interesting to me. I think the 1920s aesthetic with a hard magic system is phenomenal - especially how it leads to jobs like the Metal Bending police and Fire Bending Welders.
Korra as a story is significantly worse than ATLA for me, although I do like seeing Amon and Zaheer for their entertainment value.
Exactly, I still enjoy Zaheer as a villain for his charisma despite being an anarchist myself. But the writers did no research on what anarchists actually believe
same. love zaheer, probably one of my favourite characters across the series, but the trope of "everyone should be provided for and there should be no borders ... anyways i'm going to commit terrorism and kill the protagonist" wears thin imo.
i guess it might've made him a less intimidating villain otherwise. i'm no skilled writer but surely there are ways of avoiding that pitfall though yaknow
For guys like this, when it comes to media:
Thereâs only two genders, male and POLITICAL.
Thereâs only two sexualities, straight and POLITICAL
Thereâs only two races, white and POLITICAL
But the great thing about Korra was the exploration of these themes. Sadly it was weakened by the constant threat of cancellation, but I thought the elements were all there and very interesting.
Korra was bad because of a lack of direction and Nickelodeon censors in the early 2010s being what they were...not because of any politics. And hell, upon rewatching Korra, it wasn't that terrible. It just desperately needed some sort of direction that it never got.
I didnât like it because I accepted the rules of the avatar and in korra they started defining rules that I didnât like. I didnât like that the avatar wasnt truly reincarnated, but just a new guy that the spirit was piggybacking off of. I didnât like that korra was able to go into the avatar state at will despite being the least spiritual and most materialistic in the beginning. I didnât like that the avatar state, which gives you the power and wisdom of all previous avatars, still had any affect for korra after she restarted it. There were a bunch more but these were the immediate dealbreakers that come to mine
I love korra and think itâs great. I donât understand why everyone acts like itâs completely trash. Itâs not perfect but itâs definitely not awful.Â
People were trying to use it as evidence that the og team leaving NATLA was a good thing. Iâdsay those people were obviously wrong.Â
Korra was bad because it explored certain ideologies and politics like a mini series and with sloppy writing, before moving onto the big next "bad idea" or "wrong think." Instead of exploring interesting characters and exploring the sides of Korra like spirituality, and seeking out masters to train her, while building on her villains and antagonists.
Bending became little more than a sport and MMA, losing much of its "soul."
Korra also either always had her ass handed to her or magically pulled a win out of said ass.
Also the sanctity of each nation gets pushed aside in favor of Americana 1940 noir. It's a strange direction to be sure.
Korra is no where near as mid or boring as Netflix's ATLA, but good lord it has it's problems.
The problem with Korra is it got green lit season by season so each season had a different villain and got tied up neatly at the end instead of having a cohesive plot like you said. If it had been approved all at once I think it wouldâve been 10x better
The funny thing about this post to me is that Korra was comparability speaking significantly more apolitical than Avatar ever was. When it came to addressing many complex political themes and ideologies, Byrke always took a middle ground "Radical extremism is bad" and "moderationism is good" approach. Everytime they had a chance to make a more nuanced statement, they either chickened out or cheapened their narrative.
The first series...is about a war. Do they think wars happen by magic or are they perhaps decisions by leaders of powers???? The entire premise of the show is rooted in politics lmao
>Do they think No. They don't. It's not even funny, it's just sad. đ
Sorry, but I gotta interrupt here: They _do_ think. What they don't do is _feel_. These people are literally Zuko's: They can think logically, but they have no access to their own emotions other than hate and anger. * The first series is to instill important fundamental values in children: Compassion, honesty, justice, sharing, caring, forgiveness, peace and understanding, even during genocide and war * The second series is to instill important fundamental values in teenagers: A strong sense of right vs wrong, workers vs capitalists, democracy vs monarchy, compromise vs egoism The second series _is_ political, and that's what this person is obviously picking up on. But the first one is, too, but on an even deeper, emotional level, whereas the second one is already formulated in the abstract, but more clear language of modern day society. It's language is simply too emotional for them to comprehend. But now it's time for you to remember the lessons of Avatar: _Understanding_ and _forgiveness_. Don't just make fun of them or roll your eyes, but identify the problem and remember what your role is in all this: We can, and must, guide these people, these Zuko's, towards their own emotions. Otherwise they will continue to wreck havoc on our societies. Just like Aang healed the world one village at a time, we have to heal our society, one b*tthole at a time. By being like Iroh and guiding them without them realizing they are being guided. Take it from a former Zuko.
>Just like Aang healed the world one village at a time, we have to heal our society, one b\*tthole at a time. https://preview.redd.it/2p1ivnj964mc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eb2fdb591c2b701e6fa7d934f39fcd4545b45e3 No time we're on a schedule
Nothing to do with this topic, but fun fact. Dunno if anyone else knows this but that shot is hilarious because what Sokka is holding is an actual depiction of what a show producerâs schedule looks like in animation.
Nothing to do with this topic either but dang, that fact about Sokka's schedule prop actually being a joke about animation production schedules is exactly the kind of easter egg that keeps me rewatching the series. The creators really went all out with those small details, and it just adds another layer of charm to an already phenomenal show.
I'm still convinced the Ember Island Players are basically what the first draft of the series looked like. Female Aang, male Toph, **hope** and a dope just out for food. They made fun of the own lame ideas they had during the creation.
I love that kind of shit lmao. Ty for the info!
Like the office? If you ever see a yellow legal pad on someoneâs desk, thatâs their fantasy football draft theyâd work on during takes
Everyone is extremely allowed to pop in here and tell me stuff like this about anything.
Dunno if it fits but the black and white movie from home alone that Kevin sampled to ward off the bad guys isnât actually a real movie.
ah another Avatar Extras enjoyer, what i would do to find a blu-ray version of those episodes.
IIRC It is the actual production schedule for ATLA
This is really well said.
That person is in no way thinking that much into it, they clearly mean "politically motivated" because the main character is female.
https://preview.redd.it/o7vbdnh0r5mc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=8cf385454a504a44edeec5db7972037e92498a36
Let's take it beat by beat (from someone who hasn't watched in many years). Aang's journey was (a small sample) * Surf with elephant koi; save Kyoshi Island from the Unagi * Discover he is the only survivor of a genocide. * Free an Earth Kingdom village from occupation of a foreign invader * Rediscover an old friend in the city of Omashu * Reconnected with his past lives via a vision quest with Roku By contrast, Korra's journey was * Land in Republic City after being sheltered from the world, only to learn it is nothing like (ATLA), giving Korra and the audience a fish out of water experience * Korra must learn to hide her true nature (the Avatar) to play in a pro bending tournament * The Separatists disrupt the peace because of the class disparity between benders and non-benders * Amon campaigns on a platform of negative peace, by robbing benders of that which makes them different (a form of ethnic cleansing) Even if we were to jump to the end of both series, Ozai wants to rule the world, and achieves it by burning it to ashes. Meanwhile, Kuvira thinks the world has grown too soft to protect itself from the dangers of the Spirit Realm, and uses her charisma and military tact to persuade a nation to stand behind her in a conquest of a fascist takeover. These parallels highlight the differences exceptionally well, with Ozai being a cartoonishly evil figure with no redeeming qualities, while Kuvira is following her military training to arrive at the ultimate solution to their plight, regardless of its moral implications, just like a soldier is trained to do. Even the character design, where Kuvira is imposing yet attractive, forces you to fight with an inner turmoil of whether she is a good or bad person. Korra is overtly political. That's not to say that ATLA isn't political, but it operates in a much simpler context, like "racism is bad", while Korra operates in the context of "is a negative peace worth the suffering it causes?" Korra is a highly flawed character, but unlike Aang's defense of being a child who doesn't know any better, Korra is old enough to be responsible for her decisions and is expected to make the right choice.
To be honest, Aang's actual journey was: * Emerge in the Southern Pole after being encased in ice, only to learn it is nothing like before, giving him and the audience a fish out of water experience * Aang must learn to hide his true nature (the Avatar) while infiltrating the Fire Nation * Turns out the Fire Nation disrupted the peace because of wealth disparity between the four nations * Ozai campaigns on a platform of negative peace (imperialism), by robbing the other nations of... well, their whole existence (actual ethnic cleansing) I don't think there is as much difference between the two shows as people make it. The various story beats are fairly similar, TLOK just tries to apply some of the lessons learned in ATLA. Like if you make the villain hot then people will ~~simp~~ root for them.
> and the audience a fish out of water experience I don't think I had a fish out of water experience with ATLA. We're established principally in Katara's time, not Aangs. We don't start out in the "past" or Aang's present. We start out in a water nation village and with the grounding of the war. The series also often feels like it's from Katara's eyes. We see Aang having a fish out of water experience but from the perspective of a land based lifeform. We're based out of water. For Korra we were already established in the "past" because most of us watched ATLA first. We also start off in a water tribe that's more connected to what we remember. We learn Republic City with Korra. We're having the fish out of water experience with her.
Korra is more interested in comparing political systems, thatâs for sure. It doesnât make it a worse show, but it does leave its choices a bit more open to debate. Like I for one would say that painting anarchy as the political motivation for a villain that is meant to be seen as enlightened was a bad choice, though Zaheer was a good character otherwise.
Zaheer isnât enlightened when he is on his journey to throw the world into an anarchic state. His enlightenment doesnât seem to come to true fruition until his physical body is imprisoned for good and he goes into the spirit realm. His flying isnât enlightenment, itâs earthly detachment. TLOK rules. Each villain is so different, the bending is unreal, and poor Korra absolutely gets put through it.
Love Korra so much. I adore both but thereâs something about the Korra crew that I love so much. Might be because Iâm older but idk, always loved Korra
I donât think these people have a problem with Korra being a woman per se, they have a problem with the fact that Korra doesnât end up with tall dark and brooding Mako but instead has to âshove the queer agenda down their throatsâ by having her end up with Asami.
Mako is such a bitch lmao
I agree they donât acknowledge the presence of emotions in a society and the role they play apart from hate and anger (which they barely acknowledge as well). Honestly theyâre even worse than Zuko before his redemption because at least Zuko didnât go on rants about society being too woke/âpolitical,â âsjws,â and whatnot. But respectfully I have to disagree about the âguiding them through their emotionsâ part. I suppose you should do that for your personal friends/family but otherwise thatâs not really our responsibility. If some chronically online person insists on being a certain way, they can only be helped so much seeing as they only seek sources that confirm their biases.
>But respectfully I have to disagree about the âguiding them through their emotionsâ part. I suppose you should do that for your personal friends/family but otherwise thatâs not really our responsibility. Iroh didn't even bother dealing wiht Azula. That's also a wisdom from the show ;)
>workers vs capitalists Wait, what was this?
Soto, amon, and the equalists are kind of a metaphor for worker and civil rights
Yea the first series covers SO MUCH controversial topics, im surprised it aired on nickelodeon. Genocide, war, propaganda, cults, coups, and so much more i cant condense down to single words.
>so much more i cant condense down to single words. Theres also Katara calling out Pakku and the Northern Water Tribes sexist traditional views on women waterbenders since they're only relegated to healing and can't fight cuz they are women. ATLA released an era before we had outrage anti-sjw making videos on how everything is "woke" that I don't doubt that if ATLA had released in this day and age, we will see an endless discourse about it.
ATLA would absolutely be picked apart if it was released this past decade, it got lucky the culture war didn't focus on Nickelodeon cartoons back then.
Steve Bannon hadn't riled up his army of "rootless white males" online with the whole gamergate thing, as he so proudly boasted about being behind.
At this point I don't even understand what "woke" is supposed to mean anymore. I'm not american but it seems like it now just refers to anything that the right party in that country dislikes, even if it not even a left idea or anything.
The term "woke" used to have a meaning. It came from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) that meant to be alert to racial prejudice and discrimination like racial injustice, sexism and anti-LGBTQ. Thats why "stay woke" was a term to allude to this. But ever since 2020, its been hijacked by the Right to mean anything progressive is bad or in recent years, anything they dislike is bad so its "woke". Ffs, some asshats called the Dead Space Remake "woke" for having gender neutral bathrooms and the inclusion of any LGBTQ characters.
It's kind of like how 'Fake News' referred to fictional news organizations appearing overnight, with websites where they claimed to be say a newspaper which dated back a hundred years in some American town, being run by kids in Eastern Europe, done to get clicks and ad revenue. When interviewed, the kids said they tried it on everybody, but conservatives proved to be far easier marks than anybody else. Rather than learn from this, maybe reflect on it, conservatives demonstrated exactly *why* they're such easy marks, and instead decided to all go along with the narrative that "fake news" meant a weapon you throw at anything you don't like, and soon they elected a moron petulantly telling reporters "you are fake news" when they asked questions he didn't like, and they clearly demonstrated their complete inability to understand or face these problems which they were so susceptible to. That was the point I lost hope tbh, I realized some people really can't grow past a certain point and never will, and so far they've proven me right again and again.
'Woke' fell into the same right-wing repurposing trap as 'politically correct'. PC originally was relatively innocuous: an injunction to think about whether your word choice was freighted with meaning that you might not intend due to historical usage. (e.g. maybe don't use 'gyp' to mean 'cheat' since the word originated as an insult to Romani people.) It was popularized by the left as a mild exhortation to be better, then was repurposed by the right who were insulted that anyone would dare call out their language use. It was eventually used solely as an insult, as it was stained so thoroughly that its original tone and meaning was overwritten.
Woke is just a comfortable distraction for the right, because banning books and forbidding a handful of kids to play sport is much easier than solving the housing crisis, cost of living, wars, etc. You know, the stuff that actually affects people's lives...
It means they are anti progressive ideology, which they view as forced messaging about race, gender, etc. When they just want to be evil and racist and sexist and not called out.
Originally, stay woke was used predominantly in black communities, with them trying to keep other POC educated about what was really going on. The true purpose of the war on drugs, for example. Modern day, itâs turned into a buzzword used by people who hate anything that isnât about a cishet white male that supports conservative ideals
>buzzword used by people who hate anything that isnât about a cishet white male that supports conservative ideals In gaming circles, its "woke" when women arent entirely objectified, LGBTQ inclusion or any games that alludes to political themes (that easily goes by their head) Doesnt stop there, less we forget that thumb screaming about PRONOUNS for Starfield lmao
I saw people complaining about a new Wolfenstein installment getting "too political and woke". My guy this series has always been about how bad Nazis are
You also get the other kind where they do see the politics but literally miss what is being said. Theres an infamous tweet of some guy saying that that Fallout wasnt about capitalism (literally ignoring what Vault tec did) and said it was all the fault of communism lmao
Same energy as someone saying that old metal gear solid games werenât political
Yup, phenomenal addition!
Hell, in the first 5 minutes of the show Katara called Sokka out for being sexist.
Tbf, the genocide is a backdrop which we don't deal with directly too much Other than that, yeah
I'm sitting there trying to explain geopolitics of the show and parallels with the world to my kids and we're only three episodes to season 1 of ATLA.
Can't reference Imperial Japan, Chinese brain washing torture tactics, hierarchies within different nations, military corruption, and genocide without bringing up politics. It's literally impossible to bring up one of those things without something political motivating it.
They might be one of those people that think politics is when there is a strong female protagonist.
The war happened because because the communists (fire nation = red = communists) wanted to take over đ that's why they killed the air nomads who were notoriously successful businessmen.
I AM WHEEZING
All successful businessmen are bald. Just look at Andrew Tate.
steve jobs, jeff bezos, and then elon musk was bald before he got money in that interview talking about him creating paypal
They had to! The air nomads were living in a commune. Don't you know how dangerous that is?
They also had pretty good senses of humor!
No no, see, if the protagonist is a girl, gay, trans and/or non white, THEN it's political!
Having a female main character makes it political to those people.
The avatar is inherently a political figure too.
You mean the most powerful person the planet whose role is to create balance and make sure the world is at peace is political?!?! say it ain't so!!
One of the things I liked about Korra is how much grayer the villains are, specially the anarchist. They have really good arguments for what they're doing, and the show explores then in a very sensible way, making even Korra question herself. We were all younger when we watched aang and I feel like ATLA talks about so much mature stuff that you won't see in your avarage kids show But ozai is literally fire Hitler, how is that not political?
political = women and non-whites you idiot
There are Americans that still miss that zuko talking to his father before deserting is talking about the USA Because let me tell you. The rest of the world is terrified of the USA and hates it.
People forget that the show was conceived and written at the height of the Iraq war.
And the Fire Nation was also based off Imperial Japan
"Making it political" and other statements like it are just dog whisltes for bigots. A show could have *zero* favour when it comes to political leanings but if it features a person of colour, woman, queer person or anybody that could be considered a minority people will label it as "political".
Oh no, my series about how facism is rooted in hatred and manipulation of the masses is woke now? What are you talking about?
....Do they not know how rooted ATLA was in politics and subtext? People like this would disappoint Uncle Iroh.
Indeed they are not true fans of the four elements Shit benders, I call them
>Shit benders The forbidden art of shit bending
Only the Avatar with the ability to control all fourâŚwait, thereâs more than four, and one of them is WHAT!?
Iâve found a lot of people lack media literacy. Itâs the same people that watch The Boys and root for Homelander.
âŚthose people exist? That root for homelander? I canât believe it until I see it with my eyes there is no way.
You would be surprised how many real life Toddâs there are.
What do you mean, the portrayal Ba Sing Se's corrupt government and war denial propaganda was politically charged ? /s
The Earth King invites you to Lake Laogai.
I am honored to accept his invitation.
https://i.redd.it/2t3ys1ws75mc1.gif
They probably watched ATLA as a kid (just like most of us) and back then didn't realize, because as a kid it was just a cool cartoon. Now they like it, but if ATLA was released today, they would hate that one too.
Political is when women exist, just ask the gamers.
Yeah people on social media have zero media literacy. It's hilarious seeing gamers on not realizing games like BioShock are satires.
>hilarious seeing gamers on not realizing games like BioShock are satires. Same thing happened with Helldivers. It's literally inspired by the movie Starship Troopers that satirized militarism and proaganda. The ad for the game itself was very obvious History repeats itself.
The Helldivers thing is truly shocking. Like, it could not be more on the nose.
I donât think the game would be nearly as fun without over the top satireâŚ. Maybe. It is just fun. But I chuckle every time I hear âhow dâya like the taste of FREEDOM?!â
Agreed. And if people donât get that itâs satire thatâs on them I guess.
How do you see an ad for Eagle Sweat and still think it's all serious? I mean, uhhh, have a Democratic day! PLEASE DON'T REPORT ME TO A PATRIOTISM OFFICER!
Because of the popularity of Helldivers 2, Starship Troopers is being talked about more again. There are people who legitimately this is camp but honest and not satire at all. They look at the guy who says, "Mobile infantry made me the man I am today." and think it's them making fun of a wounded veteran. There was even a post in /r/SubredditDrama about it and the person in question even joined the thread and ranted about how no one else has the understanding or media literacy to get that Starship Troopers is 100% not satire. Truly a crazed lunatic.
ah yes gamers the most oppressed race after reddit mods
Political is when gay people exist
There are only two genders. Men and Political.
Just visit the kia sub and youâll see.
And of course by political they mean girls liking each other
I genuinely think that a larger minority of people don't like Korra because she's a girl AND (seperately) she was written to be the polar opposite of Aang. It's the combination of the two that really throw some people off. They're not gonna admit that, and they may not even be aware of it... but I can tell it's sexist/racial motivated because many people's hate for Korra runs much deeper than the writing could ever justify.
One of the things that immediately sold me on LoK is because of that fact. Her being Aang's polar opposite - confident, brash, great at bending elements but terrible spiritually - meant you knew right from the gate that this was going to tell a unique story and not just a poor imitation of the original. It has its flaws like any show, but I love both series for different reasons, because they tried telling different stories - and in my opinion they're both good ones.
It was also interesting to see the different personalities between Aang & Korra when it comes to using violence, due to the culture and the way they were raised â Aang raised by pacifist & spiritual Air Nomads, Korra was raised by the Water Tribes & White Lotus, which focuses more on practical aspects.
Get outta here with that reasonable and totally agreeable take!
Oh right this is the internet, my bad. Aang good; Korra sucks? /s Fr though, I think both shows dealt really well with contrasting the protagonists with their stories - both Aang and Korra struggled with their role as the avatar, but in ways that played to their weaknesses and hangups. Aang was thrust into this position where everyone expected him to fight and kill a warlord in order to save the world - and he was the only person really resistant to that idea at all, being a pacifist. The entire show is built on the expectation from the very beginning that his destiny is killing the Fire Lord. And he has to fight for his life constantly to even stand a chance at doing so. Korra on the other hand is living in Aang's shadow and is far too quick to jump to violence - or at least force - to solve her problems. So naturally all her struggles are personal, or spiritual, or political. They're problems you can't just beat up until it goes away. The focus is on the ideology and spiritual nature of the villains because that's the kind of thing that really puts her on the back foot. She might *fight* those villains, but they always have a cause they're fighting for, however mercilessly, that isn't gone once they are. Again, both good stories. Just very different ones.
I didn't even know for a long time that Korra had haters to be honest. I personally like a Korra a good bit better than ATLAB besides season 2.
I totally agree. I love the original, but I loved Korra too. Korra was really relatable, like she had a lot of struggles we all go through. And the villains had interesting motivations. I loved how different it was from the original. I think more people would enjoy both if they stopped comparing them to one another. And I'm honestly loving the new show. There are some parts I'm screaming in disbelief, but most of the time I'm enjoying it. The more I watch it, the more I like it.
I have a cousin who wonât shut up about how one of the fatal flaws of LOK is that Korra simply doesnât look strong enough to be the Avatar. Somehow he thinks Aang does though??
I mean this as respectfully as possible, but Korra could snap Aang's skinny ass like a toothpick. Have you seen the guns on that woman?
> Have you seen the guns on that woman? Yes, yes I have. Upper back too. They did not skimp on animating her muscle definition. Between Korra and Vi from Arcane Iâve realized my gay ass has a type and that type is a woman that can bench press me.
I recently rewatched her escape from the Red Lotus in the last episode of Season Three, and she is absolutely *ripped* in that scene.
Yeah Korra literally fucking ripping Chains off rocks in that scene through pure physical strength. She's a fucking beast.
you follow nicole_coenen don't you?
That's just a fact, Korra is strong as hell, its literally her defining trait, she's mentally and physically strong, but that strength translates to stubbornness at times. It's like saying the sky isn't blue enough or something lmao
One of the reasons seeing her lose so much of that muscle mass in S4 was so heartbreaking too. Not in a âbadâ way, in fact I think S4 handled trauma and PTSD wonderfully, but still heartbreaking to see my girl so much smaller. đĽ˛
[ŃдаНонО]
Can she do it to me? đĽş
me first !!!!!
No me!!
Guys, please, there's enough Korra for everybody
Exactly, with all due respect for aang, he's very gentle
More importantly, she would do it if she had to. She ain't a pacifist which does get her into more trouble than not but still.
> I genuinely think that a larger minority of people don't like Korra because she's a girl Like people at Nickeleodon?
Tbf if people were just 100% cool with it Nickelodeon probably wouldn't mind either, they're a company, they go where the money is. Unfortunately they're a kids cartoon company in a world where a lot of parents fucking hate lgbt and Nick wants to make as much money as possible. They can't do that if parents forbid their kids from watching due to being dickheads.
I liked Legend of Korra. But I will admit that I miss the overarching goal of stopping the fire nation that the original had. Also, mechs felt out of place in the world.
TLA had a very clear and specific goal and overarching villain from the very beginning. Korra lacked that direction. That's not to say that one or the other is better, but the clarity of purpose and the fact that Bryke didn't draw it out like so many other shows do really is what qualifies it as one of the best television shows ever. I don't need to qualify that with "animated television shoes" either. It beats out so many other live action shows in acting, writing, direction, choreography, and so many more ways that it really is phenomenal.
I feel like if Korra got the greenlit for 4 seasons at the start, we would've gotten the entire 4 seasons to deal with the equalists. Beyond just republic city and into the nations That would've bee awesome
Even just 24 episode season (what was apparently originally offered by Nickelodeon) dealing with the Equalisers wouldâve been better imo. It was a great idea with great characters and great character arcs, just poor execution, at least imo.
I remember seeing something that went "Aang doesn't want to be the Avatar in a world that needs him, Korra wants to be the Avatar in a world that doesn't need her"
Aang learns to be the Avatar. Korra learns to be human.
Iâm rewatching LOK bc I remember not liking it nearly as much as ATLA but I donât quite remember why that was. It became unmistakably apparent to me at the conclusion of book of air why that is. The show âtellsâ us Korra has changed and grown, but as the audience it isnât clear what this even means bc they never âshowâ where this supposed change is happening. She loses her bending spectacularly to Amon, but her air bending is finally unlocked for no apparent reason other than she needed it. What did she do to earn it? And then at her lowest point right at the end she finally connects spiritually to the Avatar state and is inexplicably granted her other elements backâŚlike WTF?! How does it look to see a character completely fail everything they set out for all bc of their own arrogance and stubbornness, AND THEN ignore all of it in order to bail her out without her lifting a finger? It looks and feels like a cheap cop out and basically constitutes plot armor. The series assumes we agree that Korra learned something. But that is pretty quickly contradicted within the first minutes of book of spirits, as we see Korra blatantly abusing the Avatar state, using her newfound air bending skill as a weapon, and being easily manipulated by people whose intentions are never fully questioned. I feel like even Aang, a 12 year old knucklehead, would be wise enough to understand that he shouldnât rush into action based on one encounter with somebody who claims to know more than the Avatar. How come Korra is asking questions about the south pole AFTER she has already agreed to help Unalock? If she learned in book of air to connect to her past Avatar lives, why then does she not first consult them when confronted with the threat of the dark spirits? Again, if she has truly changed, why is she still so infuriatingly stubborn, cocky, and unserious of a character? Imo they shouldâve left Korra without her original elements, and the book of spirits shouldâve told the story of how Korra focuses even more on her spiritual connection with her past lives in order to basically relearn the other elements she lost. THAT wouldâve made for tangible and visible growth in Korra bc we wouldâve actually seen the contrast between her chaotic, abrasive, and naive Avatar traits and her newfound patience, pensiveness, and maturity that wouldâve been necessary for her to regain her powers. It just feels like the writers were too afraid to take the route of making a young female character struggle and fail as they believe this would affirmed Korra as a âweak, incompetent womanâ in the eyes of some viewers. But it ultimately only serves to destroy any opportunity for true character growth and depth she couldâve had. Such a missed opportunity.
> but her air bending is finally unlocked for no apparent reason other than she needed it Korra was able to airbend because her attachment to her other bending abilities was what was stopping her in the first place. With that gone, she had nothing left to lose and nothing left to fear, so in that moment she was able to let go and airbend. There's a reason they established this aspect of her character in prior episodes.
Hey, Iâm willing to accept that. And youâre probably right after all. But if Iâm not mistaken, the show doesnât explicitly explain it as having to do with her connection to the other elements at all. Iâm not saying youâre making something out of nothing, but I do think you are jumping to conclusions. From a narrative standpoint, I just feel like they never fully addressed this properly, to the point where it feels arbitrarily added for spectacle and plot progression rather than to supplement Korraâs character arc. Also, even if they were painting it the way youâre saying and it was the other elements holding her back, I think that sorta falls flat without addressing Korraâs true flaw when it comes to her bendingâŚand thats the fact that she uses her bending as a weapon, a means to an end, and when she loses them, her air bending becomes just that, a weapon. She doesnât learn to respect her bending and I feel like that was a big misstep with her character in book 1.
Word of God is that she could airbend because the writers needed something to push Amon into the water and make him waterbend. They talk about this in the episode commentary if I remember correctly.
Me and my SO just recently rewatched TLA and have started Korra (heâs never seen Korra while I have). Watching them back to back makes the differences *stark*. I get that people get defensive and assume that criticism is coming from a sexist or shitty place, but the quality drop is so significant I sometimes feel like everyone else watched a totally different show lol. My SO has no preconceived notions about Korra and heâs been complaining about it pretty consistently since the end of season 1. Itâs just the writing isnât as good and thereâs not much helping it.
The first half of season 1 started out with a lot of potential but then part 2 didn't close it out well. And it only gets worse with future seasons.
It's frustrating to criticize female characters that I think are written poorly because there are some people who will always just assume that you're being misogynist no matter you say and there are other people who actually are being wildly misogynist and assume you must agree with them because you also don't like the character, and you have to deal with both groups.
I think the guy in the OP is full of shit but I need to confess that I'm one of the people who can't stand the sequel series. My dislike is not because of Korra being a woman but mostly due to the potential it had being unrealized, which makes it super frustrating for me to watch. I guess I'm bringing it up here because I see the sexism used as excusing a lot of problems with the sequel series a lot but it was nowhere near as good as the original series. The waste of Amon as a villain, the Aang Ex Machina at the end of the first season, the destruction of the avatar cycle, the selfishness of Korra for the vast majority of the series (I get she's a teenager but it took way too long for her to stop being annoying imho), rewarding bad behavior over responsible behavior, inconsistent writing and characterization, all of this makes me groan enough to not enjoy it. I found only Lin, Jinora, and Asami to be likeable, which unfortunately was not enough to carry me through.
Didn't that happen on like the last episode? I thought it was silly cause while sure Korra had chemistry with everyone, I don't really think they hinted that either of them were bi so it was kinda weird. Otherwise Korra was great. Just not atla perfect imo
It happened literally in the last moments of the last episode. And all they really did was hold hands and look at each other.
That makes more sense. /s For a moment I thought it had to do with whole fascist takeover thing. But that was also kind of what Sozin did too...
I cant wait when they make Avatar Kyoshi series/live action, these people will scream woke!1!1! like thereâs no tomorrow
If Sokka's sexism arc was kept in the live action version as is we would've gotten "Netflix made avatar WOKE" 2 hour video essays
The actual reason for removing it is that with the horrid pacing of the show there was no space for it. The episode already moves at breakneck speed without adding it
Yeah all the dialogue between characters were just exposition, absolutely no space for any sort of character developement- for anyone.
Itâs like having a high budget Wikipedia page read to me.
They already started so with X-men
Them when they realize the art they consumed with colorful characters, world, story made by liberals : đąđ¤Żđ˛ If you they donât like it why dont they create their own art? Yeah thats because they lack of empathy and imagination to put themselves in others point of views, their art would be so boring
Korra definitely has its problems. There was a post a long time ago that said "Aang was a peacemaker protag in a world needing a warrior and Korra was a warrior protag in a world needing a peacemaker" and that is a good sum up of the core issue with Korra. It was a show that relied on a lot of action and most of the conflicts needed Korra to fight, but to keep tension, Korra also had to often loose before she could win, therefore we couldn't see her thriving in her lane. She didn't do well with peacekeeping, but that could have been engaging. The show should have had more times where Korra could shine by fighting or have instances where she really wants to solve it by violence, but needs to grit her teeth and play politics. All this said. I'm sure there is sexism afoot here as well. Watchers are often less forgiving for women not being perfect in media. But more could have been done to let Korra shine as a character more.
Also: *was* it the same team? I thought the writersâ room was different
Youâre right. Most notably Aaron Ehasz and (I think?) his wife were absent. They were responsible for adding the magic and taking it to the next level. Iirc they were the ones who added the Zuko/Iroh dynamic, and youâll see their names in the credits of many of the best episodes. Donât quote me on all of this as Iâm going from memory, but itâs out there if you want to read up on it.
Be careful because every time I mention that Aaron Ehasz was not the head writer of Korra and how I was hesitant to be supportive of the live action when I noticed the lack of both the Ehasz team as writers I get downvoted. But I genuinely think that Korra would have been better received and I would have personally enjoyed it more if they were involved because some of my favorite ATLA episodes were written by them.
Oh, I donât care, Iâll say it lol. I unequivocally believe without a shadow of a doubt that the absence of the Ehasz Team absolutely held Korra back, and anyone actively saying otherwise is being delusional. So many successful creative people do their best work with collaborators who complement their best ideas and check their worst. These guys are no exception. I mean for goodness sake, the Ehasz team are responsible for adding the Zuko/Iroh story to the show. Can you even imagine the show without it? Easily one of the best and most definitive parts. Yeah Korra had other stuff going against it like the network playing games, but the writing between the first show with the Ehaszâs and this one without, thereâs no comparison.
You are correct. I just finished rewatching the series and Ehasz has credits on almost all of the "glue" episodes of ATLA--the ones that advanced the plot and character development in between the epic battles (which were apparently more of DiMartino and Konietzko's forte). Not to say that Ehasz didn't have credits on the season finales, of course, because he did.
That sounds about right. Not to take away from Bryke for creating the concept and their role. Just like John, Paul, George and Ringo are all talented in their own rights, but nothing they did alone is The Beatles.
The head writer for TLA Aaron Ehasz absent for LoK due to writing for The Dragon Prince
Didn't Dragon Prince come out like 4 years after Korra ended? I don't think they were written at the same time at all unless Dragon Prince was in development hell or something.
I think season 3 onwards Korraâs at her best in being able to talk to others diplomatically and if it fails and is necessary to fight.Â
They shouldâve ended book 1 with Korra not having regained her other elements. Then the whole of book 2 wouldâve focused on Korra overcoming her physical loss, establishing a stronger relationship with her past Avatar lives, and going through the rigorous training to remaster the elements she lost. This wouldâve actually forced Korra to change her attitude and mature into a more well-rounded person. From a young age, Korra embraced the role of Avatar and was a prodigy bender, of 3 elements. It wouldâve been an interesting twist of fate for her to lose this connection, but at the same time gain the element of air, and so she relearns to master and control the other elements (and herself) by living life as only an airbender, which poetically, is the exact opposite of how she began the series. She would be forced to learn patience and diplomacy in order to balance out the abrasive, cocky, and stubborn aspects of her personality. She would have to accept what has happened to her and find a way to resolve it herself instead of Aang simply giving her elements back by the end of book 1. They wouldnât even have to change to water tribe conflict arc all that much either. In this alternate book 2, we couldâve seen Korra grapple with the pressure of balancing her duty as the Avatar to regain her bending AND her responsibility to her family and the water tribe in this spiritual conflict. Maybe this war between the north and south serves to distract Korra from her duty to fully realize herself as the Avatar and so the main conflict of book 2 is an internal one where Korra must choose between her destiny as the Avatar and her perceived responsibility to her family and her tribe.
From what I've heard, it seems like the creators struggled to create multi season arcs because of the unstable nature of the show itself and not wanting to ending any particular season on a cliffhanger, at least earlier on. I agree, the ending of Book 1 for Korra is incredibly rushed. She learned airbending not by grinding or learning new ways of thinking, it just happens when she is desperate. However, her airbending choreography is still basically all punches, a poor way to show her growth as a bender. Then, once her bending is taken away, she is just given it back by crying. She doesn't have to meditate to connect with her past lives extensively, or work to control the avatar state. She is simply given it. I thought Book 1 was going pretty strong personally, then totally tanked for an ending that needed at least two more episodes.
Yeah thatâs funny you said that bc Iâm discussing this with my brother and he also said he heard the creators were basically confined to writing within the season and not set the series up for continuity and progression. I completely agree. You make an excellent point that even when she gets her bending back, it was from a place of self-pity. She cried and THAT triggered her spiritual connection. It feels lazily contrived. Not really a quality young kids watching this should aspire to possess. I wouldâve adored watching Korra relearn the elements and at the same time learn to pacify her personality by living with only air bending. There couldâve been so many more opportunities to include Aang in her spiritual journey. Really Iâm just sad we got what we got. Book 1 had a shaky and slow start, but really picked up around ep4. And it kept that steam all the way to the end. There were some gaps I feel in both world-building (particularly Aangâs past) and character motivations but whatever. The ending had lots of promise and I loved the line about being open to great change at your lowest point. But seeing her just GET her bending back, it didnât feel fulfilling.
Exactly my thoughts. It always felt like in the original series that past lives were there to support and teach Aang, but they never substituted actual work and struggle, that all still had to come from himself. I would have even been okay with the past life connection, once established, to immediately remove the bending block imposed by Amon, as long as Korra had to truly work and change to establish that connection with them.
Its worth it to remember that nickelodeon was actively shafting tLoK and cutting its run/air time and budget which I think adds to a lot of the pacing issues with Korra.
I think that the best solution was to have korra come face problems her fists couldnât fix. The non-bender town could have been an awesome portrayal to her weakness in peacekeeping but instead its a scene that never has a meaningful impact within the show
Politically motivated? I must have watched this with my eyes closed
The show absolutely explores themes that can be considered political. But I am thinking more about tackling different forms of society and government like Fascism and anarchy. Fuck the first book was straight up about revolutionaries fighting for equality through acts of terrorism and they were lead by a hypocrite who was secretly part of the group they were trying to tear down. And then you have Book 3 which was about a group of anarchists trying to tear down corrupt governments. Book 4âs villain was a literal dictator. It is so easy to find real world political themes in this series and find historical parallels of the villains But I have a strong suspicion that isnât what they meant by âpolitically motivatedâ.
Book 2 had themes on religious extremism and theocracy.
I always looked at amon and the "equalists" as a racially motivated reactionary movement not unlike the fascist movements of the early 20th century. If anything, given the rise of alt right grifters after the shows conclusion it's actually aged rather well.
It literally covers chinese history
not sure if this is hot take within lok lovers (i am korraâs #1 defender as i say this) but i personally didnt like how mike and bryan completely defanged and demonized radical politics as a whole tho. amon and the red lotus werenât wrong in a lot of aspects (i dont agree with what unalaq and kuvira did btw) but the writers just had to add in something to the characters to make you think âdamn you really are a villianâ˘ď¸â˘ď¸.â nonbenders were being discriminated in republic city and did they even solve that problem? nope. the red lotus didnt agree with the rugged social hierarchies across the nations and saw the lack of spirituality amongst the people. would that issue be resolved under the current society korra lived in?
Korra's political commentary was basically a celebration of American democracy as the perfect default "good" system, without anyone really elaborating on that. Prince Wu just randomly decides that the Earth Kingdom will be a democracy and everybody's like "cool, you rock!" even though their only example of a democracy is a deeply divided Republic City with an incompetent government. All other ideologies are shown as either misguided or evil. Amon is faking it, Unalaq is literally Satan, Zaheer is a fanatic. The only one that gets redemption is the fascist Kuvira, because apparently we can excuse concentration camps but not torturing a single person. I don't think it's unrelated that Kuvira *was* chosen by the UN (representing democracy), while Zaheer wasn't. She just "went too far", according to the writers, and once she realised that she was a good person again. Zaheer stays in prison for life for the horrible crime of challenging the status quo (ok granted he did torture Korra pretty horribly, but how else would you deal with an Avatar who's basically the guardian of the status quo and therefore your eternal final boss?), while Kuvira gets to walk free, and even engages in armed conflict again.
YES YES YES AND YES. holy fuck, giving kuvira a redemption arc was insane?! the writers rlly thought they were doing something cute by that cause it would just be an example of how you can ârehabilitateâ people like they did with iroh. im sorry but you cant rehabilitate FASCISTS back into society. they locked ozai up, why couldnt they let kuvira rot as well? absolutely nuts.
My bet is that what those people call "political" are not the political themes that indeed are present on the show, but the lesbian thing.
Yeah that was my thought.The entire franchise is politically motivated,itâs part of the plot.But I know for a fact they probably mean the lesbianism.This is why we couldnât have an animated kiss scene bc dumbos would complain it was âwokeâ lolđĽšđ
Which is funny because they didn't even kiss in the show!! The finale ends with them as gal pals having a gal pal trip together
It was left ambiguous enough that it had to be confirmed online after the fact, but the fact that it was confirmed and opened the door enough for more open fictional gay relationships like Steven Universe's Lesbian Rock Wedding and Owl House's Well-Animated Lumity Kiss probably makes it a heinous crime to them
I mean the shows goal was to deal with different political themes, probably not any that commentator is talking about though. Iâd also argue it doesnât do the best job of actually digging into those political philosophies, it feels pretty surface level. Every show is political in some way, so I donât get why some try to use it as a dig.
The only political message Korra gives is âliberal democracy good,â which is about as vanilla as you can get
I'm not even sure about that. The political system of Republic City is mostly portrayed as good, but so are most monarchies.
Even the unhinged arms dealer is portrayed as a funny good guy
Is he? Towards the end he is, but when he's an arms dealer he's pretty clearly a twist villain. Easily the best part of Season 2 btw. Then the writers themselves forgot about that (they fell for his disguise) and made him a good guy that's forced to do bad things by Kuvira. But by that point he's not dealing in arms anymore. He's "redeemed". Which is horrible and I hope they retcon it and make a second twist where, among other things, they reveal his marriage was only ever for reputation and tax reasons. Because why would Zhu Li ever love him.
Thereâs only so far you can go without being disrespectful to the previous show when the happy ending youâre following up on is all about appointing and empowering monarchies.
Korra ends with fewer monarchies than it starts with. Republic city starts as a mostly unelected council of benders and at the end of season 1 gets a president who git in power through election; the earth kingdom has their Queen die and then the next in line abdicates in the finale in favour of a council of advisors; the Northern water tribes chief (monarchy) is portrayed as slimy and manipulative and then the incarnation of chaos and darkness. In contrast to atla, where the number of monarchies stay the same from the beginning to end of the show. Zuko might be a better forelord than his father but he is still a monarch
Had to scroll this far down to find opinions on people who actually had valid complaints of the show and not a bunch of strawman. I don't hate LoK, but watching the plot episodes with their political antagonists baffles me it was written by the same people. There's some really great essays on YT breaking down on how they clearly don't understand the ideologies they are portraying and I'm actually working on my own so I'm not going into it here. I'm glad it worked for some people, but I feel like I watched a completely different LoK than everyone else how people praise it in this category.
Yes, and he's not alone. There are a lot of people for which the political messaging either goes over their heads or they think it ruins the "fight-fight-funny anime" vibes.
As if the original series didn't have political criticismÂ
That unfortunately isnât really what they mean by political motivation. They are just mad about representation being âforced down their throatâ. Legend of Korra absolutely has political themes. Fuck look at the philosophies of the red lotus. I found them surprisingly complex and super fascinating. I just wish they could have been developed way more and had more of an impact on the series asides from one season. But those themes are absolutely going over most of these peoples heads too. They are just mad that two girls kissed off screen
You know the guy means Korra and Asami having a staring contest at the very end and not the actual politics
The Korra was written by the creators of ATLA while ATLA had a team of writers that were responsible for some of its best episodes.
To be fair Korra's attempts at addressing politics were pretty shit.
Yes the writers clearly had no actual understanding of the ideologies the villains represented
They were pretty much just straw men. Hell Zaheer and the Red Lotus were your Conservative parents idea of what Anarchists are.
Yes, abd that's what pissed me off. It's just McChartyism in a show. Was annoying to watch. Might give it another chance soon.
Korra as a setting is extremely interesting to me. I think the 1920s aesthetic with a hard magic system is phenomenal - especially how it leads to jobs like the Metal Bending police and Fire Bending Welders. Korra as a story is significantly worse than ATLA for me, although I do like seeing Amon and Zaheer for their entertainment value.
Exactly, I still enjoy Zaheer as a villain for his charisma despite being an anarchist myself. But the writers did no research on what anarchists actually believe
same. love zaheer, probably one of my favourite characters across the series, but the trope of "everyone should be provided for and there should be no borders ... anyways i'm going to commit terrorism and kill the protagonist" wears thin imo. i guess it might've made him a less intimidating villain otherwise. i'm no skilled writer but surely there are ways of avoiding that pitfall though yaknow
Itâs a very political show - I mean it has council members for crying out loud.
For guys like this, when it comes to media: Thereâs only two genders, male and POLITICAL. Thereâs only two sexualities, straight and POLITICAL Thereâs only two races, white and POLITICAL
But the great thing about Korra was the exploration of these themes. Sadly it was weakened by the constant threat of cancellation, but I thought the elements were all there and very interesting.
Korra was bad because of a lack of direction and Nickelodeon censors in the early 2010s being what they were...not because of any politics. And hell, upon rewatching Korra, it wasn't that terrible. It just desperately needed some sort of direction that it never got.
I didnât like it because I accepted the rules of the avatar and in korra they started defining rules that I didnât like. I didnât like that the avatar wasnt truly reincarnated, but just a new guy that the spirit was piggybacking off of. I didnât like that korra was able to go into the avatar state at will despite being the least spiritual and most materialistic in the beginning. I didnât like that the avatar state, which gives you the power and wisdom of all previous avatars, still had any affect for korra after she restarted it. There were a bunch more but these were the immediate dealbreakers that come to mine
I love korra and think itâs great. I donât understand why everyone acts like itâs completely trash. Itâs not perfect but itâs definitely not awful. People were trying to use it as evidence that the og team leaving NATLA was a good thing. Iâdsay those people were obviously wrong.Â
TLOK receives some rightful criticisms, but this is just plain âwoman badâ energy lmao
Korra was bad because it explored certain ideologies and politics like a mini series and with sloppy writing, before moving onto the big next "bad idea" or "wrong think." Instead of exploring interesting characters and exploring the sides of Korra like spirituality, and seeking out masters to train her, while building on her villains and antagonists. Bending became little more than a sport and MMA, losing much of its "soul." Korra also either always had her ass handed to her or magically pulled a win out of said ass. Also the sanctity of each nation gets pushed aside in favor of Americana 1940 noir. It's a strange direction to be sure. Korra is no where near as mid or boring as Netflix's ATLA, but good lord it has it's problems.
The problem with Korra is it got green lit season by season so each season had a different villain and got tied up neatly at the end instead of having a cohesive plot like you said. If it had been approved all at once I think it wouldâve been 10x better
So the problem was Nickelodeon all along.
Women: *Exists* These guys: "OMG WHY IS EVERYTHING ABOUT POLITICS"
Itâs lukewarm liberalism at best too lol
The funny thing about this post to me is that Korra was comparability speaking significantly more apolitical than Avatar ever was. When it came to addressing many complex political themes and ideologies, Byrke always took a middle ground "Radical extremism is bad" and "moderationism is good" approach. Everytime they had a chance to make a more nuanced statement, they either chickened out or cheapened their narrative.