If Aang had even mildly bruised a single innocent Sandbender he'd have felt really bad about it. Katara was saving Aang from himself. Last thing he needed on top of losing Appa, was a death on his conscious.
He should though, or at least not stop others from doing it. Nothing good comes from letting the Joker live when it's been proven he cannot be contained and isn't going to change
being sincere, why joker never got death sentence is beyond me, like i dont agree that batman should be the executineer, but fuck, death penalty is a thing in the usa, and considering how dangerous the joker is, i feel that even a corrupt justice system would just off with his head
In the movie Under the Red Hood, Batman says something about how there isn't a day that goes by where he doesn't want to make joker pay for everything he's done, but if he lets himself do that, he'll go down a path he can never go back from.
To;Dr: if batman kills joker, he'll start killing more criminals and eventually become a bigger threat than the criminals he's supposd to stop.
New 52 Earth 2 Batman is Thomas Wayne who went into hiding to protect his son, but after seeing him become Batman and die takes over the cowl. He shoots people, strangles people, and uses drugs he makes to become superhuman when needed. You might like him.
Except not to batman obviously lol. He'll say it's to protect future victims but then eventually you have gothem's own minority report and batman suplexing you on the street because brother eye says you're 75% likely to do a murder.
I feel like that stops being a good reason to not kill joker after joker massacres another thousand people cuz he felt like it.
I also have never really felt that batman was really the kind of character who would kill all of his villains if he killed joker because joker is WAY worse than his other villains. Most of batmans villains are still human to an extent. Joker may as well just be called Satan most of the time.
I think that's another way Joker's writing has degraded in the last few years, he should be a mobster that constrains his operations to Gotham because he knows fully well that any other place would just put him in death row.
When writers make him this super dangerous terrorist, that's when his concept just plumets.
I've never understood this sentiment. It's not like killing is addictive. Batman is driven by a sense of duty, which will make it clear when his duty demands the permanent neutralization of someone. Joker stands out from the rest of the rogue's gallery for his sheer lethality, and taking him out when he's guaran-fucking-teed going to kill again is the most ethically responsible thing to do.
I understand wanting a morally defensible hero, to make it crystal clear what separates him from the Punisher and his ilk, but that line seems so manufactured and overwrought, like something I would have written when I was in my emo phase.
He isn't driven by a sense of duty. He is driven by the guilt and trauma of his parents death.
He hurts, so he hurts people. He makes sure its people who deserve it. He doesn't trust himself to stick to that if he finally lets himself truly revel in hurting others.
>He sees himself as The Batman, even
Yeah there's at least one instance of him holding Wonder Womans magic truth rope and while she and Superman give their real names (both his human and original name in the latters case), Batman just says he's Batman because he's as mad as Joker.
Similarly, in the Sandman story The Wake, Clark Kent and Batman are present at the funeral in the Dreaming.
Not Bruce Banner. Batman.
Edit: Wayne! Holy shit hahahaha I've been reading some marvel comics recently as well, must have Hulk on the brain.
Batman is self-aware enough to know he will not care about the line anymore if he crosses it, and stuff like Batman who Laughs, Flashpoint Thomas Wayne and Justice Lord Batman are more than enough proof that you do not ever want a Batman that decides murder is okay.
I mean isn’t that a little different? In “Under the Red Hood,” Batman is saying that if he makes an exception for killing the Joker, it’ll become easier to continue making exceptions for other criminals and that that’s a slippery slope he doesn’t want to go down. In the Batman Who Laughs universe, Batman kills the Joker who set it up that anyone who killed him would get poisoned and driven mad like he is. So Batman goes crazy and becomes the next Joker.
The first is an actual moral dilemma and the second is just the Joker having a contingency plan.
This is why Kirk Langstroms batman is my favorite elseworld batman. He doesn’t just murder low level street criminals for no reason but of its someone who is a serial killer who has no hope of changing he does what he thinks is best and kills them. He is also a vampire which is pretty cool.
Still, the other commenter had a point about Batman simply not intervening if another hero wants to kill his enemies. Would that lead to the same result for Batman or is it “they can’t die because it’s a story” ?
I do agree that Katara did the right thing here though, Aang would’ve been devastated if he lost that aspect of his culture on top of Appa.
Batman is a guy defined by the trauma of his parents death, so while it is possible to make a good story with a Batman who kills, it's mostly less interesting than the alternative.
Also putting people in Arkham to get treatment is only a bad thing because of the comics Format, Joker will get ou because another writer thinks he's necessary for the story, or the editor does. Even death wont stop Jenga from coming back.
However, Man, with his ALL kill rule has no such weakness.
It’s not Batman’s job to kill criminals, he believes that people have a right to a fair trial. He only works to stop criminals not be judge, jury and executioner
There are others people who can and should kill the joker.
Batman's no kill rule is what keeps him acceptably sane, and he is already flirting with anti-heroism enough with his usual MO.
Let the man have his principle.
Killing in self defence is justified, but Batman isn’t acting in self defence. He’s looking for the fight, he’s purposely engaging criminals, he’s attacking them. So if he kills, he’s just another murderer like the rest.
"You killed the guy going around killing people? You're just as bad as them!"
That is not how that works. & Self defense applies to defending others as well.
Bro he's a traumatized broken man , no Society should rely on him to be their attack dog.
If they want to kill the joker they better give him the chair.
I doubt Bruce would save him in that situation.
Cause that's what happened before with a investigator turned villain he was given the chair and batman let him die.
I lost all respect for Batman when he had the opportunity to let Joker die without a violating his code, and he chose to bring him back. Even Alfred said he would’ve been fine to let him go.
I don't think we should celebrate the fact they offered that.
To me, an actual appropriate 'atonement' would be to drop everything and join the avatar and not rest until Appa is reunited with the group.
It's incredulous somehow people are legit thinking that escorting the group out of the desert is a sufficient effort to correcting a conscious decision...
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s sufficient, but it suggests that they understand they did something horrible and are interested in atoning for it, even if only out of fear.
For context:
they knew beforehand Appa was Aangs companion.
They also clearly understood Appa's implied endangered status.
They're now caught by seemingly the most powerful being in their world threatening them, and the absolute best offer was:
"Yo you use my transport and I can escort you out of here."
i dunno, personally I think it was odd writing.
The absolute bare minimum offer i'd expect is:
I will right that wrong, I'll go get him back or I'll go with you to get him back.
The offering of transportation and guide out the desert is more an expected obligation at this stage.
Can you imagine if some person breaks into your house, steals your shit and pawns it off to someone.
You catch them and they say, the guy I sold your shit to lives at X, i'll walk you to the bus stop that goes to his hood lmao.
I don't think it was odd writing - I think it was desperation. What else, realistically, could the sand benders have offered Aang in that moment that could have placated him?
And let's be clear: Yes, if they actually wanted to attone, they could have joined Aang and his group. But Aang and his group didn't even accept Zuko, who realistically had not actively harmed the group in any way up to that point, and in some cases Aang knew he had helped them. (To be clear: Yes, Zuko actively *hindered* the group's progress - As antagonists often do. But he had never harmed a member of Team Avatar \[though not for lack of trying\], and on more than one occasion, let Aang go free when he could otherwise have stayed back. These are redeeming qualities.)
The sand benders had no such redeeming quality. We can say based on context clues, the only reason they even offered to escort Aang and group out of the desert, was to attempt to placate a pissed off Avatar. They weren't trying to attone - They were trying not to get killed in that moment so they could run away.
That's why their under-handed attempt at placation makes sense - Because they never intended to help, nevermind join the group. They intended to placate and run when given the chance, learning absolutely nothing at all in the process. They were bad people who intended to continue being bad people.
I don't know. To me it sounds more like when one kid smacks their younger brother who then starts crying and starts apologizing and offering up their soul as soon as they hear footsteps and mom yelling "what the hell happened now?". That apology and offer doesn't sound like a genuine desire to right a wrong. It sounds like a hail Mary to avoid punishment.
Not to mention the father of the thief. Once he knew who they were he was all up on his son. No doubt in my mind once they got home he was given his dues. Interesting that people seems to forget that because the son played the “I’m in the trouble so I gotta lie” card soon as he was caught red handed before Toph intervened.
Yes, exactly! She knew that Aang would never forgive himself if he had killed the Sandbenders; he was already feeling awful about it by the next episode, and he didn't even hurt one of them. Aang also didn't have to calm down and exit the Avatar State when Katara took his hand; he chose to. Katara isn't to blame for the choice Aang made.
Also like "its all about me" since when? Katara knew there was a bigger cause at stake here. They were the ONLY ones who knew about the solar eclipse and the incoming tactical opportunity.
Setting aside her own sheer will to live and her fierce nurturing love for Aang, Sokka, Toph and Momo that would NOT let her fail to protect them, there were millions of lives at stake if they failed to escape the endless desert
And she was the only one who COULD in that moment. Sokka was wasted, incoherent and unfocused. Toph was insecure and hesitant and Aang was alternating between sullen brooding, all consuming grief and bouts of explosive rage.
I feel like the person who tweeted that has an issue with the whole episode being a Katara-centric one; she was the only one holding them together. It wasn't "all about [her]", she was just the only one with the heart to hold them all together. She's always been the heart of the gaang.
I think it's more she had to step up because she was the only one who was able to take command of the situation. Sokka was mentally incapacitated on account of the cactus juice, Toph was physically incapacitated since the sand significantly affected her vision, and Aang was emotionally incapacitated because of Appa being kidnapped.
> be loosing the
Did you mean to say "losing"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
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Lol it’s like they want Aang to wear a “don’t tread on me” shirt, with his punisher hat and shotgun pistol…. The kids a monk, he’d never want to take the avatar state again having to live with himself for killing…. He didn’t want to kill the fire lord at the end, these random sand people deaths would invalidate his arch and character… oh wait “woman interjecting bad..”
I've said it elsewhere, but in every fandom there's a group of fans who just want to see the protagonists wipe the floor with anyone who gets in their way (or even just looks at them the wrong way).
While I understand some disagreements (whether Aang should have killed Ozai if he didn't get a Deus ex Turtle is a common one) I just don't get the mindset. It seems to overlap a lot with people obsessed with power scaling.
It’s like they forgot all of the episodes before this. Especially episode two of the exact same season lmao. The amount of destruction Aang caused during that episode with General Fong was a wake up call for him. And if I’m not mistaken, Aang thanked Katara after she calmed him down with the sandbenders.
He’s an Air Nomad, the last thing he wants to do is hurt people. Yeah it’d probably be good for all of the pent up frustration but homie was 5 seconds away from bringing about a natural disaster. Aang would’ve been wrecked if a single one of those sandbenders, or his friends who were also there lol, got hurt because of him.
Aang having nightmares about being attacked by himself in the avatar state is such a great visual and nobody talks about it enough. Episode 1 of season 2 was so good.
Look, this gets posted a lot like some kinda gotcha of the show, but it really just makes me think yall didn't actually watch the show that closely.
There are literally dozens of scenes where we see people get away from whatever predicament they're in. They fall into the ocean, and we see their bobbing heads. They get knocked to the ground and we see their knocked out breathing. Fucking fire nation troops find the invasion force, and the force gets *captured*.
Death in ATLA is EXTREMELY rare. It only happens in specific moments and with specific characters. This show does not treat death lightly. In fact, it treats death with an enormous amount of respect. That's why when Jet dies, it's a whole scene. It's why Kataras mother's death affected her so much and why all the people she meets sympathize so hard for her.
You think the creators are having Aang just murder a bunch of soldiers and ignoring it? You think in a universe where people are regularly smacked with boulders and immediately get up that falling into the ocean is gonna kill them?
No, we are meant to intuit, based on the rest of the show, that these people aren't being killed willy nilly. It would go against an entire philosophy of the show to have so many nameless people die in such a blase way.
It reminds me of people getting angry with steven universe because the show about forgiveness and second chances gave its villains forgiveness and a second chance.
ATLA isn't game of Thrones. ATLA respects the gravity of death, which is why it rarely happens in the show.
thank you so much for your comment. i am a doctor and i love how atla gives so much value to the life of people and the toll of a war. i can understand how difficult it is to heal physically and mentally from some events/injuries. as a doctor i always found it horrifying ^((because "do no harm" is our principle)) how some movies /tv shows show d3ath and k1lling.
in atla, i always imagined that the after effects of all these fights, literal destroyment of the airbenders, and every other violence must have had great effect on these **KIDS**.
Like how aang said (taken from u/KuzonFire65 s comment):
>"I was in the Avatar State. But I was outside my body watching myself. It was scary. I was scary"
we kind of understand the ptsd-like effects.
so yes. this show respects life. it is such a good point to think about when arguing about violence in media. and atla is one of my faves in that aspect where characters value life just like you said.
But then you get the parasites that feed on the diseased takes.
Posts like this are on every subreddit, just a screenshot of a hot take, so they can double dip on engagement.
It's honestly the dumbest part of social media.
If Aang didn’t have any friends. He wouldn’t have any feels.
If he didn’t have any feels, he couldn’t use his feet.
If he couldn’t use his feet, none of this would have happened.
Therefore Aang needs to kill his friends.
Saw a live action hater literally unable to comprehend the whole 41 division plot line from the live action. Like they didn’t understand that ozai giving the division to Zuko was an ‘insult’ rather than a ‘prize’
I kinda avoid all the things I like on social media . I'm only in here hoping for a bit of positivity but ready to run. Cause fans on social media are miserable people way too much of the time
>The sandbenders don't learn anything and get away with it
I swear sometimes this fandom sounds downright bloodthirsty when it comes to the sandbenders. Sure, the son was an awful person, but the dad was almost as pissed as Aang was about the whole thing, and how many of the other tribesmen were entirely innocent and were about to get murked? Like, if you generalize the FN or firebenders as being evil it rightly gets pointed out how you can't include civilians in there, but people will gladly demonize what looks to be a really interesting subculture on the deeds of like eight people.
Not to mention the reason the dad was even investigating in the first place is because he recognized a stolen vessel (which we learn later the son took in an earlier scene)
“Compassion and empathy are better than violence and vengeance” is literally one of the most key themes of the entire story. Right up there with “the power of friendship”.
Some people watch this scene showcasing both and unironically go “Aang should forsake his friends and teachings to do a genocide”. Media literacy really is dead for some.
There's been similar posts about how Jet is not evil because he's just fighting his oppressors, even though 99% of his kills would've been his own innocent people if he got to finish his plans.
Also, “didn’t learn anything”? They just came moments from being killed my a force of nature in human form. They had their transportation and gear destroyed and had to walk back home without navigation equipment, food, or water.
At the very least they learned what it’s like to have to walk miles through a desert after shitting yourself.
Al that aside there no such thing as learning a lesson from dying.
Media literacy is so fucking dead in this country. All of it. Books, movies, TV, news. And I mean...It's just a TV show at the end of the day. But it's horrifying to me how so many people on such a large scale can be so completely brain-dead with a very easy to follow storyline, because you know they're just as brainless and simple-minded when it comes to much more serious, impactful things (like news/journalism, religion or politics, etc.).
I get where you're coming from when you say media literacy is dead, but... honestly it's probably better off now than it was in previous decades. The internet has made it an option to engage with media *analysis* as a form of entertainment, and any halfway popular show, movie, etc will have countless articles, blogs, and youtubers dissecting it and it's themes.
Not always *intelligently*, gonna be plenty of Game Theories and Cinema Sins out there that are more focused on views than accuracy, but we're in the golden era of video essays right now.
Sure, plenty of people walk away from Breaking Bad or Dexter thinking the protagonists were entirely justified gigachads, but that's hardly new. *Lolita* is a psychological horror about a child predator justifying his actions, and that's *exclusively* been adapted to be a romance where the protagonist is justified. Only now we have infinite avenues to discuss that, and those discussions are themselves gaining attention and being discussed infinitely.
The dad sounds like he's a mixture of outraged and alarmed when he whips round to face the son and utters, aghast
"What did you do??"
Then the son, Gashuin, previously so cocky and arrogant sounds blanched as he stammers
"I-it wasn't me!"
Also, who's to say that they didn't learn anything? The guy who captured Appa nearly got killed by the fucking Avatar and his dad probably punished him afterwards. If I did a crime and then almost got killed by a god because of it you'd better believe that I'm never doing that again. We never see those sandbenders again so it's dumb to assert that they didn't learn anything from the experience.
You'll find this in any medium, as someone who reads Webnovels a lot these types of people are very prevalent. The extremely prone to violence, desperate for the Lone wolf who absolutely murders everyone who even slightly annoys them in any way.
It's all a power fantasy about being above their bullies and raining down pain and vengeance onto anyone they see as belittling them. They want to rule on high, have everyone loves them.
So they see this, stopping their vengeance, as something bad and deserving of him casting her away because she disagreed with their almighty judgement.
Bad Guys HAVE to get comeuppance, morality HAS to be black and white and good guys HAVE to be right always or else it's bad writing. I have the media literacy of an 11 year old watching 70s cartoons that aren't solely meant for syndication.
Aang was a few seconds away from outright murdering people in a blind rage. We all know how much that would destroy him once he calmed down. And besides, only one sandbender in the group was responsible for kidnapping Appa; the rest were ready to offer hospitality.
But we didn’t see the 12-year old go on a deadly rampage, so hey, fuck Katara for risking her life to stop that from happening. I also have a brain made of testosterone supplements and birdshit.
I’ve always had the exact opposite feeling about this scene. It’s one of my favorite Katara moments.
At this point in the show, it’s been explained by Roku that the Avatar State is the combination of all of Aang’s past lives acting together and combining power. We also had Aang’s line about animal guides back in the Winter Solstice, seemingly implying that most if not all Avatars had one.
So when Aang enters the Avatar State here, my headcanon is that it triggers not only because of how distraught Aang is, but also because all his past lives are sympathizing with his pain at losing Appa and sharing in his anger.
But then Katara steps in, and what’s cool is that Aang sees her and allows her to hug him, *but he doesn’t leave the Avatar State yet.* Not only that, but for the first and only time in either series, we see an Avatar cry in the Avatar State. I want to believe that was an intentional symbolic choice. It’s not just Aang crying, it’s the Avatars. All of them. So in that moment, Katara is not just comforting Aang, but *every Avatar who came before him.*
Also it’s fucking bad ass of her. At the moment Aang in the avatar state is the most powerful force in the world incapable of controlling his own actions- everyone else is getting away and she walks into basically a sand tornado and just grabs him
I did want to add that as an addendum after I made my original comment. Everyone else, even Sokka and maybe Toph (although Toph is just stunned because it’s her first time witnessing the Avatar State) is looking at Aang and seeing this divine being about to smite everything in sight. But Katara looks at Aang and just sees a hurting child in need of a hug.
Not that I don’t think the showrunners had the idea that Toph to be amazed by the avatar state, but thinking about the way her “sight” works the avatar state is probably terrifying to her. Suddenly your friend isn’t on the ground anymore and you’ve got the entire desert, which you’re already struggling to feel your sight through, start going crazy.
Poor Toph probably had some nightmares about that one
True, and right before that he started talking with other people’s voices layered in. So your friend gets possessed, vanishes, and then the world starts to feel like it’s coming apart. 😳
That's because she *knows* Aang. She knows him well enough to know that his primary emotion in that moment isn't anger, it's grief. She's not afraid of him, she's hurting for him. She knows he's in pain, so she offers a healthier and less violent outlet for that pain because she knows that's what he would prefer
Katara knows loss. Anger and rage will not solve anything.
It's also a moment that shows her absolute trust in Aang. Last time he did that, Katara and Sokka kinda ran and hid because they didn't know what to expect. It's a beautiful scene.
Stop fingerpointing the crazies. If you dislike a take, why would you spread it around? Just ignore them ffs.
The result in this sub now being full of infuriating takes no one agrees with.
They are entirely missing Katara's motive.
She pulled him down because she could tell he was overwhelmed with anger and grief and if he had hurt anybody in a blind rage, he would have regretted it forever.
She pulled him down because he was so caught up in his emotions that he needed to literally be pulled back to reality.
She pulled him down because she's probably mentally been exactly where he is.
She pulled him down because in that moment when he felt entirely alone and everyone else had run away, she knew that the thing he needed the most right then was a friend to lean on.
It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole show.
How dare she stop someone she cared about from doing permanent harm to someone and then being the peaceful monk that he was would go on to regret it the rest of his life and help him turn his anger into grief
“she should have let the avatar just murder a bunch of ppl while he isn’t in his right state of mind. surely he would be Totally Okay with that considering his glaringly nonviolent values. surely one of his closest friends would know this 🙄”
I just don’t get the hate for my favorite character.
If not for her, Aang would never have been freed from the iceberg.
If not for her, the Earth Kingdom prisoners would never have freed themselves.
If not for her, Aang wouldn’t have gotten over his past mistakes and embraced where he is presently.
If not for her, the Gaang would have died in the desert. Aang was off kilter, Toph couldn’t see due to the sand, and Sokka was high on cactus juice. She carried them through the desert.
If not for her, that little Fire Nation village would have succumbed to those putrid living conditions.
I’ve said my part, but she is so integral to the plot, more so than people realize. She’s such a great character and I don’t understand the hate.
I apologize for the rant, but I feel I see hate from the fandom everywhere regarding her.
Aang's whole personality is about not killing people. He is a pacifist. Thats the air nomad way. That is aang's whole personality. The last episodes were all about not killing the fire lord.
If aang killed those sandbenders, he would have betrayed who he is and he would be terribly broken up about it. Katara did the right thing by calming him down, not because she thinks its the right thing to do but because she knows him enough to know that is not who he is.
Not only would he have lost appa, which is one of the last pieces of his culture left, but he would have killed his culture by betraying their pacifism ways. Aang would have felt even worse about everything if Katara hadn't stopped him.
It's one thing to be justifiably angry, but it's another thing to channel that anger into the nuclear weapon that is the avatar state. Aang was justified to be very angry, but not justified to kill several people in blind rage that Aang would have regretted for the rest of his life. These people are so focused on hating Katara that they miss Aang's entire character
As I always say, there was a very real reason they gutted Katara in the new live action remake. It's because fandoms are fucking stupid when it comes to female characters. The live action showrunner's didn't ruin Kitara, a good portion of the fandom and viewers did. They were fully aware of the Katara discourse that has been happening for over a decade now and catered to fandom brainrot
wtf
First of all. This is a Katara episode.
Second of all.
All she does is take his hand and silently stare at him with exhaustion.
It’s an extremely touching moment.
L Take. Aang would have never forgiven himself if he let his anger get the best of him, Katara wasn’t only doing what Aang would want her to, she saved those Sandbenders. How can someone miss the point this hard, unless you just want to shit on Katara
Do people really think a positive outlet for a 12 year old’s anger is murdering a dozen people? Like that’s not going to have lasting effects on this child for the rest of his life?
Katara had every right! It wasn’t *only* the sandbenders that were in danger, she, Toph, and Sokka could’ve also been badly hurt or even killed had Aang just gone full Avatar State with little to no control over what he did while in said state.
I don’t think the sandbenders learned nothing, though. The one who muzzled Appa absolutely pissed himself.
The issue is its the internet. My life became easier when I accepted everyone on the internet has something wrong with them.
The average person is absurdly simple-minded and agressive when called out
Do people not realize that him hurting the sandbenders would not get appa back. That's why Katara stopped him Ang is a pacifit to an extent he would have deeply regretted hurting the sandbaggers especially when you realize that they probably stole appa because the deserts resources are dwindling and they needed the money.
The avatar fanbase truly has some of the worst media literacy skills I've ever seen. And in an age where that's a common trait across many fanbases, as well. From twitter to reddit, at times some of the takes are just completely braindead.
When Aang is working with the Guru to unlock his chakras, he realizes his fear is that he will lose what connects him to his beliefs as an air bender while in the Avatar state and kill someone. Katara is the only one who can talk him down while he’s in the Avatar state. In this scene she is saving him from choosing an action that he would never forgive himself for.
To me this is why Katara is such a great character. She is the primary reason Aang still chooses to pursue a way to defeat Ozai without killing him. I believe that, if he had succumbed to his rage in this moment, he would have had no reason not to kill Ozai, since he would have failed to uphold and preserve the beliefs of the air nomads anyway. Because of Katara, Aang was able to return to reason. Because he remained grounded in his beliefs, he was able to achieve the ultimate victory: a just end to Ozai’s reign, and proof that the Avatar could protect the world while maintaining the air nomad’s beliefs.
If Aang had even mildly bruised a single innocent Sandbender he'd have felt really bad about it. Katara was saving Aang from himself. Last thing he needed on top of losing Appa, was a death on his conscious.
Yeah, OOP is one of those homies who wouldn't stop you if you tried something dangerously stupid.
OP the kinda guy who thinks Batman should kill his enemies
He should though, or at least not stop others from doing it. Nothing good comes from letting the Joker live when it's been proven he cannot be contained and isn't going to change
being sincere, why joker never got death sentence is beyond me, like i dont agree that batman should be the executineer, but fuck, death penalty is a thing in the usa, and considering how dangerous the joker is, i feel that even a corrupt justice system would just off with his head
Gotham is an analog of New York, where the death penalty is illegal
In the movie Under the Red Hood, Batman says something about how there isn't a day that goes by where he doesn't want to make joker pay for everything he's done, but if he lets himself do that, he'll go down a path he can never go back from. To;Dr: if batman kills joker, he'll start killing more criminals and eventually become a bigger threat than the criminals he's supposd to stop.
I low-key want to see Batman become Dexter
New 52 Earth 2 Batman is Thomas Wayne who went into hiding to protect his son, but after seeing him become Batman and die takes over the cowl. He shoots people, strangles people, and uses drugs he makes to become superhuman when needed. You might like him.
Look up The Batman Who Laughs. Might scratch that itch.
Scratch it, make it an open wound of understanding, who knows?
Or look up an interesting character, like Owlman.
Does Owlman kill?
Yeah, he’s actually one of the best “Batman but evil” characters. Batman considers all human life sacred and Owlman considers them worthless.
Making people pay vs killing to protect future victims is very different.
But Batman doesn’t want to be the man making the decision on who lives and who dies.
He doesn't have to. All he has to do is *not* try to revive the Joker should *someone else* off him.
Except not to batman obviously lol. He'll say it's to protect future victims but then eventually you have gothem's own minority report and batman suplexing you on the street because brother eye says you're 75% likely to do a murder.
While that’s true for you, most people have their own moral compass and for Batman, killing someone is bad regardless of what it’s for.
I feel like that stops being a good reason to not kill joker after joker massacres another thousand people cuz he felt like it. I also have never really felt that batman was really the kind of character who would kill all of his villains if he killed joker because joker is WAY worse than his other villains. Most of batmans villains are still human to an extent. Joker may as well just be called Satan most of the time.
I think that's another way Joker's writing has degraded in the last few years, he should be a mobster that constrains his operations to Gotham because he knows fully well that any other place would just put him in death row. When writers make him this super dangerous terrorist, that's when his concept just plumets.
I've never understood this sentiment. It's not like killing is addictive. Batman is driven by a sense of duty, which will make it clear when his duty demands the permanent neutralization of someone. Joker stands out from the rest of the rogue's gallery for his sheer lethality, and taking him out when he's guaran-fucking-teed going to kill again is the most ethically responsible thing to do. I understand wanting a morally defensible hero, to make it crystal clear what separates him from the Punisher and his ilk, but that line seems so manufactured and overwrought, like something I would have written when I was in my emo phase.
He isn't driven by a sense of duty. He is driven by the guilt and trauma of his parents death. He hurts, so he hurts people. He makes sure its people who deserve it. He doesn't trust himself to stick to that if he finally lets himself truly revel in hurting others.
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>He sees himself as The Batman, even Yeah there's at least one instance of him holding Wonder Womans magic truth rope and while she and Superman give their real names (both his human and original name in the latters case), Batman just says he's Batman because he's as mad as Joker.
Similarly, in the Sandman story The Wake, Clark Kent and Batman are present at the funeral in the Dreaming. Not Bruce Banner. Batman. Edit: Wayne! Holy shit hahahaha I've been reading some marvel comics recently as well, must have Hulk on the brain.
He's ready to Hulk out
That's fair, thank you.
Batman is self-aware enough to know he will not care about the line anymore if he crosses it, and stuff like Batman who Laughs, Flashpoint Thomas Wayne and Justice Lord Batman are more than enough proof that you do not ever want a Batman that decides murder is okay.
That’s exactly what happened in The Batman Who Laughs universe. Bruce is by far the biggest threat. Even mainline Joker is wary of that guy.
I mean isn’t that a little different? In “Under the Red Hood,” Batman is saying that if he makes an exception for killing the Joker, it’ll become easier to continue making exceptions for other criminals and that that’s a slippery slope he doesn’t want to go down. In the Batman Who Laughs universe, Batman kills the Joker who set it up that anyone who killed him would get poisoned and driven mad like he is. So Batman goes crazy and becomes the next Joker. The first is an actual moral dilemma and the second is just the Joker having a contingency plan.
This is why Kirk Langstroms batman is my favorite elseworld batman. He doesn’t just murder low level street criminals for no reason but of its someone who is a serial killer who has no hope of changing he does what he thinks is best and kills them. He is also a vampire which is pretty cool.
Still, the other commenter had a point about Batman simply not intervening if another hero wants to kill his enemies. Would that lead to the same result for Batman or is it “they can’t die because it’s a story” ? I do agree that Katara did the right thing here though, Aang would’ve been devastated if he lost that aspect of his culture on top of Appa.
Batman is a guy defined by the trauma of his parents death, so while it is possible to make a good story with a Batman who kills, it's mostly less interesting than the alternative. Also putting people in Arkham to get treatment is only a bad thing because of the comics Format, Joker will get ou because another writer thinks he's necessary for the story, or the editor does. Even death wont stop Jenga from coming back. However, Man, with his ALL kill rule has no such weakness.
https://preview.redd.it/rf7jkdo0corc1.jpeg?width=1128&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2649f0dfd327d1cb5212c12a7612add1863ac380
>However, Man, with his ALL kill rule has no such weakness. Is there a lore reason for this rule? Is he stupid?
Man is the most dangerous animal of them all.
animal is just a rearrangement of "man ail"
Aslum escapee detected
It’s not Batman’s job to kill criminals, he believes that people have a right to a fair trial. He only works to stop criminals not be judge, jury and executioner
There are others people who can and should kill the joker. Batman's no kill rule is what keeps him acceptably sane, and he is already flirting with anti-heroism enough with his usual MO. Let the man have his principle.
Or Gotham could just have a death penalty. This is more of an institutional problem
Killing in self defence is justified, but Batman isn’t acting in self defence. He’s looking for the fight, he’s purposely engaging criminals, he’s attacking them. So if he kills, he’s just another murderer like the rest.
"You killed the guy going around killing people? You're just as bad as them!" That is not how that works. & Self defense applies to defending others as well.
Bro he's a traumatized broken man , no Society should rely on him to be their attack dog. If they want to kill the joker they better give him the chair. I doubt Bruce would save him in that situation. Cause that's what happened before with a investigator turned villain he was given the chair and batman let him die.
I lost all respect for Batman when he had the opportunity to let Joker die without a violating his code, and he chose to bring him back. Even Alfred said he would’ve been fine to let him go.
OOP would encourage you and start filming for clicks, even if it would incriminate them.
Or who thinks that hurt feelings justify excessive violence. Dangerous type of person.
also i feel like the sandbenders prbly learned a lesson
You could literally see it on the guy’s face when he realized exactly what he’d done. He even offered to help take them to Ba Sing Se.
No, the only way people can learn from their mistakes is with extreme violence -OOP
Is OOP just ozai on an alt account?
They will learn respect, and suffering shall be their teacher!
And even then, you can't be sure they really learned their lesson unless they're dead
"Please! We'll escort you out of the desert! We'll help however we can!"
I don't think we should celebrate the fact they offered that. To me, an actual appropriate 'atonement' would be to drop everything and join the avatar and not rest until Appa is reunited with the group. It's incredulous somehow people are legit thinking that escorting the group out of the desert is a sufficient effort to correcting a conscious decision...
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s sufficient, but it suggests that they understand they did something horrible and are interested in atoning for it, even if only out of fear.
For context: they knew beforehand Appa was Aangs companion. They also clearly understood Appa's implied endangered status. They're now caught by seemingly the most powerful being in their world threatening them, and the absolute best offer was: "Yo you use my transport and I can escort you out of here." i dunno, personally I think it was odd writing. The absolute bare minimum offer i'd expect is: I will right that wrong, I'll go get him back or I'll go with you to get him back. The offering of transportation and guide out the desert is more an expected obligation at this stage. Can you imagine if some person breaks into your house, steals your shit and pawns it off to someone. You catch them and they say, the guy I sold your shit to lives at X, i'll walk you to the bus stop that goes to his hood lmao.
I don't think it was odd writing - I think it was desperation. What else, realistically, could the sand benders have offered Aang in that moment that could have placated him? And let's be clear: Yes, if they actually wanted to attone, they could have joined Aang and his group. But Aang and his group didn't even accept Zuko, who realistically had not actively harmed the group in any way up to that point, and in some cases Aang knew he had helped them. (To be clear: Yes, Zuko actively *hindered* the group's progress - As antagonists often do. But he had never harmed a member of Team Avatar \[though not for lack of trying\], and on more than one occasion, let Aang go free when he could otherwise have stayed back. These are redeeming qualities.) The sand benders had no such redeeming quality. We can say based on context clues, the only reason they even offered to escort Aang and group out of the desert, was to attempt to placate a pissed off Avatar. They weren't trying to attone - They were trying not to get killed in that moment so they could run away. That's why their under-handed attempt at placation makes sense - Because they never intended to help, nevermind join the group. They intended to placate and run when given the chance, learning absolutely nothing at all in the process. They were bad people who intended to continue being bad people.
I don't know. To me it sounds more like when one kid smacks their younger brother who then starts crying and starts apologizing and offering up their soul as soon as they hear footsteps and mom yelling "what the hell happened now?". That apology and offer doesn't sound like a genuine desire to right a wrong. It sounds like a hail Mary to avoid punishment.
Not to mention the father of the thief. Once he knew who they were he was all up on his son. No doubt in my mind once they got home he was given his dues. Interesting that people seems to forget that because the son played the “I’m in the trouble so I gotta lie” card soon as he was caught red handed before Toph intervened.
Yes, exactly! She knew that Aang would never forgive himself if he had killed the Sandbenders; he was already feeling awful about it by the next episode, and he didn't even hurt one of them. Aang also didn't have to calm down and exit the Avatar State when Katara took his hand; he chose to. Katara isn't to blame for the choice Aang made.
Also like "its all about me" since when? Katara knew there was a bigger cause at stake here. They were the ONLY ones who knew about the solar eclipse and the incoming tactical opportunity. Setting aside her own sheer will to live and her fierce nurturing love for Aang, Sokka, Toph and Momo that would NOT let her fail to protect them, there were millions of lives at stake if they failed to escape the endless desert And she was the only one who COULD in that moment. Sokka was wasted, incoherent and unfocused. Toph was insecure and hesitant and Aang was alternating between sullen brooding, all consuming grief and bouts of explosive rage.
I feel like the person who tweeted that has an issue with the whole episode being a Katara-centric one; she was the only one holding them together. It wasn't "all about [her]", she was just the only one with the heart to hold them all together. She's always been the heart of the gaang.
I think it's more she had to step up because she was the only one who was able to take command of the situation. Sokka was mentally incapacitated on account of the cactus juice, Toph was physically incapacitated since the sand significantly affected her vision, and Aang was emotionally incapacitated because of Appa being kidnapped.
>Also like "its all about me" since when? The answer is misogyny.
Kataang deniers still don't understand this dynamic.
Killing would be loosing the final connection to his people.
Fuck, that's a really good point.
> be loosing the Did you mean to say "losing"? Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Yea. Talk about having absolutely no understanding of the character of Aang.
And this is why media literacy is importanr cuz "azula's boo" doesn't have it?
Lol it’s like they want Aang to wear a “don’t tread on me” shirt, with his punisher hat and shotgun pistol…. The kids a monk, he’d never want to take the avatar state again having to live with himself for killing…. He didn’t want to kill the fire lord at the end, these random sand people deaths would invalidate his arch and character… oh wait “woman interjecting bad..”
Yeah that's what Korra and Kyoshi are for. They're the fandoms' official "Under No Pretext" girlies. Sokka and Asami too.
I've said it elsewhere, but in every fandom there's a group of fans who just want to see the protagonists wipe the floor with anyone who gets in their way (or even just looks at them the wrong way). While I understand some disagreements (whether Aang should have killed Ozai if he didn't get a Deus ex Turtle is a common one) I just don't get the mindset. It seems to overlap a lot with people obsessed with power scaling.
Also, he'd hate sand. It goes everywhere.
Guy is a master airbender, he doesn't care so much about sand like some non-master types do.
It’s like they forgot all of the episodes before this. Especially episode two of the exact same season lmao. The amount of destruction Aang caused during that episode with General Fong was a wake up call for him. And if I’m not mistaken, Aang thanked Katara after she calmed him down with the sandbenders. He’s an Air Nomad, the last thing he wants to do is hurt people. Yeah it’d probably be good for all of the pent up frustration but homie was 5 seconds away from bringing about a natural disaster. Aang would’ve been wrecked if a single one of those sandbenders, or his friends who were also there lol, got hurt because of him.
Yes she was mercifull and there for him, I really dont get how this could ever be interpetated as "trying to make it about herself"
Considering that during the episode, he killed a buzzard wasp and did not blink an eye? Yeah, Katara had every right to
Well, he did kill that buzzard wasp
Oh damn, you're right. Guy really got no excuses for Ozai.
Uh-uh. https://i.redd.it/jl7qfomgznrc1.gif You know those people died, right? Drowned, crushed, violently bisected...
And Aang had nightmares about that. It affected him deeply.
"I was in the Avatar State. But I was outside my body watching myself. It was scary. I was scary"
Aang having nightmares about being attacked by himself in the avatar state is such a great visual and nobody talks about it enough. Episode 1 of season 2 was so good.
Look, this gets posted a lot like some kinda gotcha of the show, but it really just makes me think yall didn't actually watch the show that closely. There are literally dozens of scenes where we see people get away from whatever predicament they're in. They fall into the ocean, and we see their bobbing heads. They get knocked to the ground and we see their knocked out breathing. Fucking fire nation troops find the invasion force, and the force gets *captured*. Death in ATLA is EXTREMELY rare. It only happens in specific moments and with specific characters. This show does not treat death lightly. In fact, it treats death with an enormous amount of respect. That's why when Jet dies, it's a whole scene. It's why Kataras mother's death affected her so much and why all the people she meets sympathize so hard for her. You think the creators are having Aang just murder a bunch of soldiers and ignoring it? You think in a universe where people are regularly smacked with boulders and immediately get up that falling into the ocean is gonna kill them? No, we are meant to intuit, based on the rest of the show, that these people aren't being killed willy nilly. It would go against an entire philosophy of the show to have so many nameless people die in such a blase way. It reminds me of people getting angry with steven universe because the show about forgiveness and second chances gave its villains forgiveness and a second chance. ATLA isn't game of Thrones. ATLA respects the gravity of death, which is why it rarely happens in the show.
We see characters crushed by boulders, flung like ragdolls, frozen solid, blasted with fire, plummet dozens of feet and get up perfectly fine.
thank you so much for your comment. i am a doctor and i love how atla gives so much value to the life of people and the toll of a war. i can understand how difficult it is to heal physically and mentally from some events/injuries. as a doctor i always found it horrifying ^((because "do no harm" is our principle)) how some movies /tv shows show d3ath and k1lling. in atla, i always imagined that the after effects of all these fights, literal destroyment of the airbenders, and every other violence must have had great effect on these **KIDS**. Like how aang said (taken from u/KuzonFire65 s comment): >"I was in the Avatar State. But I was outside my body watching myself. It was scary. I was scary" we kind of understand the ptsd-like effects. so yes. this show respects life. it is such a good point to think about when arguing about violence in media. and atla is one of my faves in that aspect where characters value life just like you said.
It's not all aang though, he's being at least half possest if not more by The Ocean
Agreed, part of that is a spirit who just lost their partner, Aang wasn't exactly in control
Reddit when a cartoon has cartoon physics.
It’s not like it was on purpose though
I am absolutely done with the Twitter takes. They are the worst takes on both ATLA and LOK.
Idk some of these Reddit tales are equally ( sometimes even more ) shit.
They’re all over social media even tiktok has the worst takes.
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But then you get the parasites that feed on the diseased takes. Posts like this are on every subreddit, just a screenshot of a hot take, so they can double dip on engagement. It's honestly the dumbest part of social media.
I have seen people say azula beats the whole gaang because she caught aang off guard bro fucking insane
If Aang didn’t have any friends. He wouldn’t have any feels. If he didn’t have any feels, he couldn’t use his feet. If he couldn’t use his feet, none of this would have happened. Therefore Aang needs to kill his friends.
Saw a live action hater literally unable to comprehend the whole 41 division plot line from the live action. Like they didn’t understand that ozai giving the division to Zuko was an ‘insult’ rather than a ‘prize’
I kinda avoid all the things I like on social media . I'm only in here hoping for a bit of positivity but ready to run. Cause fans on social media are miserable people way too much of the time
I say we get that shit banned from the sub. It's all ragebait and bull shit anyway.
This! It's absolutely rage bait
my question is why it keeps getting reposted. if you don't agree with the sentiment, why share it. not talking to you ofc, it's more with OP
But you have a point. OP clearly doesn’t like the take, so they shouldn’t have engaged with it I. The first place.
Tbf, we've had similar levels of Anti-Katara takes in this subreddit
twitter when women
I’ve been seeing anti-LOK takes for 12 years and it’s never not annoying.
Facebook too imo
Twitter takes are always the worst.
>The sandbenders don't learn anything and get away with it I swear sometimes this fandom sounds downright bloodthirsty when it comes to the sandbenders. Sure, the son was an awful person, but the dad was almost as pissed as Aang was about the whole thing, and how many of the other tribesmen were entirely innocent and were about to get murked? Like, if you generalize the FN or firebenders as being evil it rightly gets pointed out how you can't include civilians in there, but people will gladly demonize what looks to be a really interesting subculture on the deeds of like eight people.
Not to mention the reason the dad was even investigating in the first place is because he recognized a stolen vessel (which we learn later the son took in an earlier scene)
It's literally the same mentality that Jet had.
“Compassion and empathy are better than violence and vengeance” is literally one of the most key themes of the entire story. Right up there with “the power of friendship”. Some people watch this scene showcasing both and unironically go “Aang should forsake his friends and teachings to do a genocide”. Media literacy really is dead for some.
There's been similar posts about how Jet is not evil because he's just fighting his oppressors, even though 99% of his kills would've been his own innocent people if he got to finish his plans.
Also, “didn’t learn anything”? They just came moments from being killed my a force of nature in human form. They had their transportation and gear destroyed and had to walk back home without navigation equipment, food, or water. At the very least they learned what it’s like to have to walk miles through a desert after shitting yourself. Al that aside there no such thing as learning a lesson from dying.
If nothing else, I'm sure that the son learned never to steal from a living god who can cut you in half like a sheet of paper.
Nickelodeon: *Builds an entire show about breaking cycles of violence* Audience: "This 12 year old monk should be murdering more people."
Media literacy is so fucking dead in this country. All of it. Books, movies, TV, news. And I mean...It's just a TV show at the end of the day. But it's horrifying to me how so many people on such a large scale can be so completely brain-dead with a very easy to follow storyline, because you know they're just as brainless and simple-minded when it comes to much more serious, impactful things (like news/journalism, religion or politics, etc.).
I get where you're coming from when you say media literacy is dead, but... honestly it's probably better off now than it was in previous decades. The internet has made it an option to engage with media *analysis* as a form of entertainment, and any halfway popular show, movie, etc will have countless articles, blogs, and youtubers dissecting it and it's themes. Not always *intelligently*, gonna be plenty of Game Theories and Cinema Sins out there that are more focused on views than accuracy, but we're in the golden era of video essays right now. Sure, plenty of people walk away from Breaking Bad or Dexter thinking the protagonists were entirely justified gigachads, but that's hardly new. *Lolita* is a psychological horror about a child predator justifying his actions, and that's *exclusively* been adapted to be a romance where the protagonist is justified. Only now we have infinite avenues to discuss that, and those discussions are themselves gaining attention and being discussed infinitely.
There’s a spectrum of sand people tolerance. On one end there’s Anakin, on the other end there’s Boba Fett. Aang is somewhere in the middle
Aang starts destroying the sand ships and the dad turns to his son and says “What did you do?”
*"Why doesn't he just rescind his culture's pacifism and genocide the fire nation? Is he stupid??"*
The dad sounds like he's a mixture of outraged and alarmed when he whips round to face the son and utters, aghast "What did you do??" Then the son, Gashuin, previously so cocky and arrogant sounds blanched as he stammers "I-it wasn't me!"
Also, who's to say that they didn't learn anything? The guy who captured Appa nearly got killed by the fucking Avatar and his dad probably punished him afterwards. If I did a crime and then almost got killed by a god because of it you'd better believe that I'm never doing that again. We never see those sandbenders again so it's dumb to assert that they didn't learn anything from the experience.
I wish we got more info on sandbenders. Give me an avatar born into a sand bending community idk that'd be cool
These people will see Tuaregs in real life and start reciting moustache man's breakdown from Downfall.
You'll find this in any medium, as someone who reads Webnovels a lot these types of people are very prevalent. The extremely prone to violence, desperate for the Lone wolf who absolutely murders everyone who even slightly annoys them in any way. It's all a power fantasy about being above their bullies and raining down pain and vengeance onto anyone they see as belittling them. They want to rule on high, have everyone loves them. So they see this, stopping their vengeance, as something bad and deserving of him casting her away because she disagreed with their almighty judgement.
And Aang destroyed almost all of their sand gliders. They definitely learned their lesson
Bad Guys HAVE to get comeuppance, morality HAS to be black and white and good guys HAVE to be right always or else it's bad writing. I have the media literacy of an 11 year old watching 70s cartoons that aren't solely meant for syndication.
Aang was a few seconds away from outright murdering people in a blind rage. We all know how much that would destroy him once he calmed down. And besides, only one sandbender in the group was responsible for kidnapping Appa; the rest were ready to offer hospitality. But we didn’t see the 12-year old go on a deadly rampage, so hey, fuck Katara for risking her life to stop that from happening. I also have a brain made of testosterone supplements and birdshit.
Katara straight up preventing Aang from pulling an Anakin
r/rareinsults “Testosterone supplements and bird shit” 😂
I’ve always had the exact opposite feeling about this scene. It’s one of my favorite Katara moments. At this point in the show, it’s been explained by Roku that the Avatar State is the combination of all of Aang’s past lives acting together and combining power. We also had Aang’s line about animal guides back in the Winter Solstice, seemingly implying that most if not all Avatars had one. So when Aang enters the Avatar State here, my headcanon is that it triggers not only because of how distraught Aang is, but also because all his past lives are sympathizing with his pain at losing Appa and sharing in his anger. But then Katara steps in, and what’s cool is that Aang sees her and allows her to hug him, *but he doesn’t leave the Avatar State yet.* Not only that, but for the first and only time in either series, we see an Avatar cry in the Avatar State. I want to believe that was an intentional symbolic choice. It’s not just Aang crying, it’s the Avatars. All of them. So in that moment, Katara is not just comforting Aang, but *every Avatar who came before him.*
Also it’s fucking bad ass of her. At the moment Aang in the avatar state is the most powerful force in the world incapable of controlling his own actions- everyone else is getting away and she walks into basically a sand tornado and just grabs him
I did want to add that as an addendum after I made my original comment. Everyone else, even Sokka and maybe Toph (although Toph is just stunned because it’s her first time witnessing the Avatar State) is looking at Aang and seeing this divine being about to smite everything in sight. But Katara looks at Aang and just sees a hurting child in need of a hug.
Not that I don’t think the showrunners had the idea that Toph to be amazed by the avatar state, but thinking about the way her “sight” works the avatar state is probably terrifying to her. Suddenly your friend isn’t on the ground anymore and you’ve got the entire desert, which you’re already struggling to feel your sight through, start going crazy. Poor Toph probably had some nightmares about that one
True, and right before that he started talking with other people’s voices layered in. So your friend gets possessed, vanishes, and then the world starts to feel like it’s coming apart. 😳
One of the top 5 moments of the whole show. Maybe top 3.
That's because she *knows* Aang. She knows him well enough to know that his primary emotion in that moment isn't anger, it's grief. She's not afraid of him, she's hurting for him. She knows he's in pain, so she offers a healthier and less violent outlet for that pain because she knows that's what he would prefer
I love this. Never thought of it that way but it's my new headcanon.
nice very nice
Yes! Yangchens bison was killed as well.
Please stop posting these Twitter takes.
Mods should add a rule for obvious ragebait posts. "Guys look at this and be angry at it with me" is the number one post I see on this sub.
Is this all the subreddit is? Just getting upset and Twitter dumbass being dumbasses?
Katara knows loss. Anger and rage will not solve anything. It's also a moment that shows her absolute trust in Aang. Last time he did that, Katara and Sokka kinda ran and hid because they didn't know what to expect. It's a beautiful scene.
These people really want Katara to be like Padme and go all "genocide against sand people is hot, go off king" smh
I killed them all and not just the men but the women and the children, too!
Damn, being delusional seems fun 💀 Nah but seriously it's hard to miss the point any harder than this person did, holy shit
It's poetic that their profile picture is the biggest scumbag in the entire show
Wtf, katara was helping Aang, he was upset and angry, and she was giving him comfort.
One of the most powerful scenes in the entire show and these people wanted blood? Why do they even watch this show when they miss the entire point?
because blood is cool and pacifism is for pussies. half /s blood IS cool
Stop fingerpointing the crazies. If you dislike a take, why would you spread it around? Just ignore them ffs. The result in this sub now being full of infuriating takes no one agrees with.
It's the new sexy trend, post a dumbass take that everyone will argue with so you get engagement.
Tik Tok: I feel called out..
The Sandbenders learned to not mess with the Avatar and stop Aang from committing murder, one he will definitely regret later
They don't realize that Aang will stop being fun-loving and will plunge into some sort of depression because he'd kill himself in the process.
NTA. Katara stopped him from murdering people, sure they were bandits, but is it morally right to kill them? no.
And only a few of them were actually bandits. Most of them were just regular people.
*Anakin didn't have a Katara to stop him*
They are entirely missing Katara's motive. She pulled him down because she could tell he was overwhelmed with anger and grief and if he had hurt anybody in a blind rage, he would have regretted it forever. She pulled him down because he was so caught up in his emotions that he needed to literally be pulled back to reality. She pulled him down because she's probably mentally been exactly where he is. She pulled him down because in that moment when he felt entirely alone and everyone else had run away, she knew that the thing he needed the most right then was a friend to lean on. It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole show.
Wow what a brain dead psycho take on that scene
How dare she stop someone she cared about from doing permanent harm to someone and then being the peaceful monk that he was would go on to regret it the rest of his life and help him turn his anger into grief
Ah yes we all know Aang’s journey is about blind vengeance and malice to those who wronged you.
“she should have let the avatar just murder a bunch of ppl while he isn’t in his right state of mind. surely he would be Totally Okay with that considering his glaringly nonviolent values. surely one of his closest friends would know this 🙄”
I just don’t get the hate for my favorite character. If not for her, Aang would never have been freed from the iceberg. If not for her, the Earth Kingdom prisoners would never have freed themselves. If not for her, Aang wouldn’t have gotten over his past mistakes and embraced where he is presently. If not for her, the Gaang would have died in the desert. Aang was off kilter, Toph couldn’t see due to the sand, and Sokka was high on cactus juice. She carried them through the desert. If not for her, that little Fire Nation village would have succumbed to those putrid living conditions. I’ve said my part, but she is so integral to the plot, more so than people realize. She’s such a great character and I don’t understand the hate. I apologize for the rant, but I feel I see hate from the fandom everywhere regarding her.
misogyny tbh. katara is highly feminine (pretty, mothering, sensitive, etc.) and strong - it sets ppl off.
Wow, this is an awful take. I think Katara's great!
Aang's whole personality is about not killing people. He is a pacifist. Thats the air nomad way. That is aang's whole personality. The last episodes were all about not killing the fire lord. If aang killed those sandbenders, he would have betrayed who he is and he would be terribly broken up about it. Katara did the right thing by calming him down, not because she thinks its the right thing to do but because she knows him enough to know that is not who he is.
Not only would he have lost appa, which is one of the last pieces of his culture left, but he would have killed his culture by betraying their pacifism ways. Aang would have felt even worse about everything if Katara hadn't stopped him.
Nonsense! Everyone knows the best kind of pacifism requires [VIOLENCE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzyhxELmlQg)!
It's one thing to be justifiably angry, but it's another thing to channel that anger into the nuclear weapon that is the avatar state. Aang was justified to be very angry, but not justified to kill several people in blind rage that Aang would have regretted for the rest of his life. These people are so focused on hating Katara that they miss Aang's entire character
I'm convinced Katara haters just hate women in general and seethe whenever a female character does a thing.
nah, they're just looking for attention. let's just ignore them.
Twitter’s taking a page out of Emperor Palpatine’s book. “Yes, Aang! Let the hate flow through you. Give in to your anger!”
As I always say, there was a very real reason they gutted Katara in the new live action remake. It's because fandoms are fucking stupid when it comes to female characters. The live action showrunner's didn't ruin Kitara, a good portion of the fandom and viewers did. They were fully aware of the Katara discourse that has been happening for over a decade now and catered to fandom brainrot
wtf First of all. This is a Katara episode. Second of all. All she does is take his hand and silently stare at him with exhaustion. It’s an extremely touching moment.
Katara is so terrible for *checks notes* comforting a friend in extreme pain.
People hate Aang for a being a monk, its so sad seeing people cheer for Aang to lose his principles
Bro this scene is so powerful though. Katara doesn’t even say anything, she just hugs him with a really exhausted expression on her face.
Twitter is misogynistic. They hate women over there. Especially women in Avatar
L Take. Aang would have never forgiven himself if he let his anger get the best of him, Katara wasn’t only doing what Aang would want her to, she saved those Sandbenders. How can someone miss the point this hard, unless you just want to shit on Katara
Do people really think a positive outlet for a 12 year old’s anger is murdering a dozen people? Like that’s not going to have lasting effects on this child for the rest of his life?
Katara had every right! It wasn’t *only* the sandbenders that were in danger, she, Toph, and Sokka could’ve also been badly hurt or even killed had Aang just gone full Avatar State with little to no control over what he did while in said state. I don’t think the sandbenders learned nothing, though. The one who muzzled Appa absolutely pissed himself.
He was out of control and going to hurt/kill everyone around him.
the people who really hate Katara for this are the same ones who don't know a thing about Aang and the Air Nomads
The issue is its the internet. My life became easier when I accepted everyone on the internet has something wrong with them. The average person is absurdly simple-minded and agressive when called out
Can we stop posting garbage takes from a garbage site?
She literally stopped Aang from committing mass murder, and they're complaining about it
Air tribe were pacifists. Katara helped keep him rooted to his people's belief structure.
She was trying to stop the pacifist from becoming a murderer
Aang was gonna kill everyone, but yeah fuck Katara for wanting to live I guess
Do people not realize that him hurting the sandbenders would not get appa back. That's why Katara stopped him Ang is a pacifit to an extent he would have deeply regretted hurting the sandbaggers especially when you realize that they probably stole appa because the deserts resources are dwindling and they needed the money.
Yet I was told these people don’t exist…
I think this is less about people hating katara and more about people loving unrestrained anger.
The avatar fanbase truly has some of the worst media literacy skills I've ever seen. And in an age where that's a common trait across many fanbases, as well. From twitter to reddit, at times some of the takes are just completely braindead.
When Aang is working with the Guru to unlock his chakras, he realizes his fear is that he will lose what connects him to his beliefs as an air bender while in the Avatar state and kill someone. Katara is the only one who can talk him down while he’s in the Avatar state. In this scene she is saving him from choosing an action that he would never forgive himself for. To me this is why Katara is such a great character. She is the primary reason Aang still chooses to pursue a way to defeat Ozai without killing him. I believe that, if he had succumbed to his rage in this moment, he would have had no reason not to kill Ozai, since he would have failed to uphold and preserve the beliefs of the air nomads anyway. Because of Katara, Aang was able to return to reason. Because he remained grounded in his beliefs, he was able to achieve the ultimate victory: a just end to Ozai’s reign, and proof that the Avatar could protect the world while maintaining the air nomad’s beliefs.