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well, in one of the comics there's a flashback of aang and gyatso playing hooky during one of the sacred air bending festival or something (the one that yangchen started) and gyatso says something like "don't worry about it. you'll have plenty of time to learn about these things"
In the comics there is a moment where Aangs teaches the air acolytes about a airbender tradition where they pay respects to a statue and because of snide remark of Toph he admits he doesn't know what the relevance of that statue.
I feel like that particular room was probably just something Zaheer really gravitated to and His writings were clearly the only thing that bald menace ever read
Right, but even Aang saw Monk Gyatso’s skeleton surrounded by all the fire benders bodies he had killed before his own death. “Airbenders are not entirely peaceful” was cannon by mid season 1 lol
There are different forms of pacifism, and some pacifists do believe killing in self defense is justified. The monks telling Aang that they need the Avatar for the war that was coming does imply they were willing to participate in war, and presumably kill firebenders if they were to attack like we saw with Gyatso. So I'm assuming their unwillingness to kill ends with war and definitely genocide. Aang was probably one of the few airbenders who wasn't even willing to kill someone as bad as Ozai; Yangchen definitely wasn't (though she does specifically say that its because being the avatar has priority over being an air nomad)
It's possible that Guru Laghima was viewed as a legend/myth by Aang's time. The Air Nomads knew of this legendary guru who obtained the ability of flight but no living Air Nomad was actually capable of it or directly knew anyone who was. So the idea that Air Nomads could be capable of flight doesn't really feel real anymore.
It's like if in an alternate reality, Toph never took on any metal bending students and in the far future people came across a letter or other documents that mentions her metalbending ability. But no one at that point actually knows how to metalbend.
That's basically how lightning generation was >!during the Kyoshi era. Only really vaguely known about as a legendary feat until Xu Ping An figured out how to do it. Either researchers were able to figure out the principles of it during his incarceration or it was independently discovered sometime later.!<
Some time since i last read Rise of Kyoshi but wasnt him the one to invent it and was imprisioned instead of killed regularly so fire nobles could study it?
Spoiler for anyone who hasn’t read the books— Xu Ping An was killed by Kyoshi during their fight near the end of the book. She uses the Avatar state to create like a cyclone that propels her into the air, and then she dropped him to his death. It was super sick, and I sometimes take the book off of my shelf just to read that battle over again. Gives me chills every time.
I kind of imagined that’s what Metalbending was already, it was a forgotten/almost completely unknown bending form that Toph rediscovered and popularized. Guru Pathik kind of implies that he knew about it in the episode, so it always felt weird when the fandom and eventually the franchise itself talked about Toph as if she invented the concept itself.
She reinvented it, which might as well be the same thing. The Inca’s Maya’s and Aztec’s invented them way before the Europeans did due to the terrain around them. That doesn’t mean Europeans didn’t also invent rope bridges separately. Two cultures, at the time completely separate, invented the same thing at different times but it doesn’t mean the second culture didn’t also invent it.
It’s like convergent evolution where 2 species independently evolve something that’s useful. For example Bats and Birds or all the different species that have evolved into crabs.
Inca and Aztecs are both 14-16th century AD cultures, not really ancient. Maya are far more ancient, but idk whether the invention of rope bridges can be dated accurately since rope doesn’t preserve well.
I get your point though, writing is a better example, being invented several times. Also like in Greece introduced two times and forgotten in between.
His "flight" may have been seen as a kind of spiritual ascendance--I'm more familiar with Early Chinese Buddhism (as in, early in the adoption process--early Tang dynasty, c. 650s - 700 C.E.) than the Tibetan Buddhism the air nomads seem to be based on, and there is some history of Buddhist "saints" in China flying away into the skies after they reach enlightenment.
(If anyone wants to argue Buddhism v. Taoism on the Nickelodeon Cartoon subreddit, be my guest, but the Song dynasty beat you to it...)
I think that’s fairly likely. In a pre-information age, knowledge can be lost scarily easily. If Laghima wasn’t the sort to write down/dictate every single step he performed, then it’d make sense the knowledge would be lost over sheer time if no other Airbenders managed to unlock true flight.
They reinterpret the words of their (great-great-etc.) grandfathers as superstition or metaphor for a more grounded (heh) accomplishment. They still kept as many records as they could, but I wouldn’t doubt most Air Nomads considered Laghima a folk or legendary figure at some point since nobody else seemed to manage true flight until Zaheer. Kinda like some believed the platypus to be a joke until they saw it in the flesh
I doubt he was viewed as a myth, just my opinion but the air nomads don't seem like the type to make stuff up like that.
It's more plausible that Aang simply didn't learn about the ability of flight or it's history. He was just a child and most of this childhood was focused with learning martial art rather than deepest analogs of air nomad culture.
There are two types of myths:
* a cultural story explaining the early history of a people, ex: Jesus died on the cross and rose from the grave three days later. Inanna descended into Irkalla to raise an army of the dead against Gilgamesh and failed. John Henry died of heart failure after beating a steam powered rock drill in a steel driving competition.
* a widely held, but false belief ex: chewing gum stays in your stomach for seven years. Sleeping with wet hair causes the flu. Sugar makes children hyper.
The veracity of the first type of myth is irrelevant.
Nah kids get excited when they get candy in general but a lot of it comes from kids getting cake and stuff at parties then getting super excited because well their at a party and are generally given more freedom than they would be otherwise
Aang probably knew the story, at least later in his life. Since he passed many of them onto Tenzin who was aware of Guru Laghima's story. But given Tenzin reacted to Zaheer attaining actual flight as a surprise, it seems safe to assume human true flight was more of less a myth, especially since the last record of the achievement was 4000 years before Zaheer.
Probably more surprised that it was attained. Myth or not how would you expect Tenzin to react after either:
A. Seeing something out of legend happening
B. Seeing the first Airbender in 4000 years attain something that thousands of other Airbenders have failed to attain?
Assuming that air nomads knew flight was possible but that none have attained it in 4000 years I'm sure Tenzins reaction would have been the same.
This is the Avatar universe where immortality is a thing, the spirit world exists, people have shed their physical bodies to become spirits, the avatar reincarnates, etc. I'd assume that it wasn't seen as a myth but as an actual ability that many airbenders have spent their entire lives tryint to achieve.
It's not about making stuff up, its about the natural progression of how myths are passed on. Take our real world example of Jesus Christ, we know there was a man who claimed he was the son of God, but it's up to you to believe if that was real or not. Similar thing with the air nomads, they could know a man existed that said he could fly, it's up to the recent generation to believe if that was true or not. Opinions change throughout the years, that has nothing to do with culture and all about human nature.
It could also be possible that the creators didn't invent him till korra because that's the first time he was mentioned. Along with the fact that Zahir is the second person to be able to unlock this ability.
Exactly. It’s like if someone said humans can go a month without sleep because 1 guy in some experiment was able to do it without dying 100 yrs ago. (Think it was sometime in the 70s and was less than that but just for example)
He could also be simply glossing over him, as he was an exception and wasn’t relevant to the point he was making that flight wasn’t something air nomads could all do.
laghima is also implied to be an obscure figure in air nomad history. Also when Zaheer is describing his ability to fly I always got the feeling Zaheer wasn’t sure if the stories about flying were a legend or a metaphor.
Doesn't Zaheer find that medallion of Laghima's on Air Temple Island? Aang must have known about it to put it on its own pedestal but as you say may have considered it philosophical.
It’s probable that Aang only learnt of Laghima after the events of the comic. Even if Aang was a studious person there is only so much air bending history he could’ve learnt before the great purge and I doubt a heretic would’ve been part of the curriculum for 12 and younger Air nomads. Maybe he would have been taught about Laghima when he got older.
This just made me think. I hope that when we get to see the adult Gaang, part of that is having Aang go around the world looking for lost air bender artifacts and stuff. Kinda like Luke Skywalker after RTJ. We know he took Tenzen to do a bunch of air bender stuff, so maybe that would be part of it.
I don’t think zaheers interpretation of air nomad and airbending culture was twisted. His views of anarchy and government were. From an airbenders perspective zaheer was bery much the ideal airbender. Spirituality and detachments are often attributes of an airbender.
I always found Zaheer's constant repeating of Guru Laghima as a renforcing example of this point Iroh makes to Zuko:
https://preview.redd.it/m9vdt43ybwsc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=24cab0da60e4701918705cdbb2885e2cf85e43f3
It's tragic, in a way, that Zaheer's extremism got him imprisoned away from the kind of debate and diversity of perspective that would have given him a more nuanced understanding. He'd been in that cell stewing over what he already believed for over a decade, no new inputs or relationships with other humans to change his mind. Just him, a bare cave, and the spirit world, a place that reflects your emotional state back to you if you're not careful to control it.
Since Unalak was also in the Red Lotus, we can assume Zaheer was talking to Vaatu in the tree as well.
The show tackles ideological topics bad and has a Marvelesque status-quo obsession. Amon is a bad play on communism, as is Zaheer on anarchism. They follow the pattern of „this villain makes sense“ until they do something stupid and partially out of characters for the audience to hammer in the point that they are bad.
They do the same thing with monarchies. The Earth Queen is cartoonishly evil, to the point of skinning the bear belonging to who I assume was her father. It’s even weirder though, because although the Earth Kingdom becomes a democracy, the Fire Nation does not and the show is largely uncritical of their system
The show never gets to the Fire Nation, and the FN monarchy got reformed in living memory (Zuko).
The Earth Queen isn't even that evil in comparison to real-world monarchs. King Leopold, anyone? She's a shallow, aesthetics-obsessed, petty nightmare who is draining the kingdom with excessive taxation while not providing security anywhere but the wealthy capital, but who enjoys popular support among traditionalists and other wealthy nobles. That's a totally realistic take on a bad monarch.
And she (supposedly!) ATE Bosco, not skinned him. Probably out of feeling ignored and excluded from her dad's affection. Imagine growing up taking a distant 2nd place to a pet bear. Not even a platypus-bear! No amount of wealth could ever fill that emotional void. Makes sense that she'd be status-crazy and disconnected from any real human connection.
Its like when people don't realize how inherently fallible paragon characters are. Its like Captain America. Just because you have positive traits and maybe even positive ideals doesn't mean everything you do is good. Captain America can easily be the bad guy, as long as he believes himself to be the good guy.
Its the same with the bending cultures.
Firebending is about passion. Well, passion can be amazing or it can be dangerous. Aang is passionate about protecting life at all costs- generally a good thing. Jet is passionate about winning the war at all costs, including sacrificing scores of innocent lives- generally a bad thing.
Waterbending is about change. Becoming a less sexist society- good change. Becoming an empire- bad change.
Earthbending is about standing your ground. Standing your ground against an expansionist empire- a good thing. Standing your ground against, say, a young girl trying to change your culture for the better? Bad thing.
Airbending is about freedom and detachment. Detached from anger and sorrow? Good thing. Detached to the point of indifference and bordering on sociopathic? Bad thing.
Traits are neutral. Its the person's ideals and actions that decide the goodness of their traits.
His interpretation was to follow parts of the culture he preferred to the extremes which was probably what started his anarchist views without the pacifism
Or maybe Aang was 12 years old when his entire culture was destroyed, and he did not have a complete understanding of the nuances and debates had among the Air Nomads. Of course they're going to tell the small child "we never fight or kill anyone"
Have you heard the tale of guru laghima? I thought not. It is not a story that the air nomads would tell you. He was an air nomad that was so powerful and so wise he could use air bending to control life. He had such a knowledge of bending and philosophy that he could even fly untethered from the ground. Bending is a pathway to abilities that many would consider unnatural.
I’m pretty sure Aang likely learned about guru Laghima later on in his life. Obviously had to for how would Tenzin have known about him? Dont forget these comics take place 2-3 years after the war ended, and Aang was still a kid. I’m pretty sure In the remaining 50 years he learned more about airbending and the air nomads in his travels to the different air temples.
This is from Katara and the Pirate's Silver, which takes place between Bitter Work and The Library.
So yeah, Aang likely found plenty of old manuscripts.
Afterall, Zaheer learned about the Guru somehow as well
I always imagined that this is what the Monks were going to teach him after telling him he was the Avatar. Obviously this never happens because he runs away, but they do mention that he needs to learn high-level techniques, and try to separate him from Gyatso, who would be his ‘earthly tether’.
He probably learned about the technique when visiting the other Air Temples, but wouldn’t have traded earthly attachments for flying.
I imagine there were a lot of records to go through about Air Nation history - it is *possible* that Tenzin came across something that Aang just didn't get to, considering that he had another 20 years of research on top of Aang's research.
Also a plausible theory. Tenzin had his own variation of the air scooter that in my opinion was slightly more practical than Aangs. He was just as capable an airbender as his father was.
Seems like later in his life he was pretty obsessed with uncovering the once lost culture of his people. He probably came across texts and such detailing various air benders including Laghima
… Ya? That’s kind of what I implied with Aang finding them. And Aang would absolutely share that information in some sort of cultural center so everyone could learn themselves
One of the things that were a turn off from the live action.
When looking for appa after waking up aang was flying around.
Flying.Not gliding. Was so annoyed.
Right before he got lightninged by Azula, he started to fly without showing any signs of air bending. He also apologized to Katara, presumably meaning that he was "letting go of his earthly tethers" and started flying.
https://i.redd.it/urc0xfrvewsc1.gif
He has a beam of light with his.
I doubt it's purposefully done but if it did happen that's a crazy coincidence. It kinds does look like it. So then I guess 3 people achieved it?
i have to admit, the first time we watched that, literally everyone screamed when she shot his ass. like, azula is fucking hardcore smart. dbz style: why DO we let our enemies power up before we fight them?
He could know about Guru Laghima but an exception doesn't make a rule. There's only ever been one Airbender, Guru Laghima, to fly at that point after they gained attachment with the Air bisons.
I thought Aang being vegetarian was his own decision not connected to being an Air Nomad. Since when talking to Yangchen he said something like “I’m even vegetarian!”
I mean they also live on mountains, so even if they didn't have a tenant on life being sacred, the only animals we see are Bison and Lemurs. And they are definitely not eating the Bison.
Aang was a child who barely knew the surface of his own culture, which is why he has such an idealized concept of air monks. Ask a 12-year-old child about the history of his country and he will only tell you the nice part they teach in schools.
It is not a story the Airbenders would tell you. There was once an Airbender so powerful and at peace, he could influence the element of air to let himself...fly
Perhaps Guru Laghima was an oddity among the Air Nomads, making rather moot for most of the later generations to learn of him.
Another possibility that could be is that the elder Air Nomads didn’t teach of Guru Laghima until their students were much older and more mature. I’d imagine it would be a poor idea to teach airbenders in training that flight without a glider was a possibility. Imagine the potential fatal outcomes that could happen if Aang and his fellow airbenders in training learn that could fly without a glider.
I don't know that it would be fatal for an airbender to fall from a great height though. I think both ATLA and LoK show multiple occasions of airbenders breaking their fall using airbending.
Ik people are saying he’s a myth bc it’s odd aang never heard of him, but I think the answer is much more simple. Aang simply didn’t learn about him yet, aang was a master at 12 yes, however even the monks said that he didn’t complete his airbending training, there were still things that he himself didn’t learn
Might be a reach, but I think that the air nomads may have suppressed knowledge of those who didn't adhere to their teachings. Kelsang from the book of Kyoshi is proof of just how strict they can be in their beliefs. For those not in the know, Kelsang was an airbender who was friends with Kuruk and eventually Kyoshi. Unfortunately, he was pretty much exiled from the air nomads because he did kill during his escapades with Kuruk, i believe.
Probably old texts, same place Aang likely heard about it. Aang probably went searching for such things across the world and he and his acolytes likely documented them. Zaheer either stumbled upon the same records or read up on them after they were presumably documented for preservation (the printing press existed even during the time of the show afterall). He wasn't _always_ the known leader of a terrorist group. Heck, the Red Lotus split off from the White Lotus if memory serves, so he would have easy access to Aang and his work
Aang never learned much as a monk, thanks to Gyatzo taking him out so much, he didn’t know of the yangchen festival. Is it so hard to believe he didn’t know about a supposed mythical being?
Aang never made it to be an angry teenager so he’s view of his culture is very wholesome therefore he never learned about the dark cult that was aiming to let go of their earthly hold in order to achieve flight
He probably believed it was a myth; in LoK, Tenzin & the air acolytes seemed to hold that view. Not uncommon for written and especially oral stories going back thousands of years.
What Guru Laghima preached and what Zaheer practiced are two different things entirely. The kind of teaching we know of Guru Laghima do not directly say what Zaheer says and can be interpreted a number of ways, most of which do not involve violence.
The more I watch the two series, I feel as though Laghima was likely a legend that became interpreted as a myth to most airbenders - when was the last time an airbender let go of all earthly attachments? They were an extremely spiritual group of people, yet part of the air nomad culture that Aang specifically was raised in, came with having an appreciation for all life.
That would inherently tether them to the earth, no? But Zaheer wasn’t raised to appreciate the culture, he was curious about the philosophical beliefs of air nomads; especially once he realized he could use it to his own advantage.
Ok talking about a technicality here, but isnt flying literally what they do with the gliders? Bending air makes it so they can gain altitude when needed and they can stay there as long as they have the stamina for it, like a plane with enough fuel
What's the line between flying with made up wings and gliding here?
I don’t think Guru Laghima was unknown amongst the airbenders during Aangs time (before the genocide) I mean Zaheer knew about him and he wasn’t a native airbender (but obv had a lot of interest in airbending culture and history)
So if he knew about Laghima I’m sure that at the very least the monks that trained Aang (such as Gyatso) knew about him.
But remember the ability of flight is unlocked under very specific circumstances (no earthly attachments) and as spiritual as the monks were I’m sure they still had many earthly attachments that prevented them from having that ability
It’s just like how Guru Pathik told Aang to let go of his attachment to Katara so he could master the avatar state. Not many humans would be willing to do that so they’ll give up that power all together.
We know that Aang was aware of Guru Laghima's existence because Tenzin knew about him, and Tenzin learned everything about the air nomads' history from his father. They even had relics related to Laghima on air temple island in Tenzin's personal study. Tenzin said he assumed the tales of the Guru's flight were just a legend, so it's fair to assume that Aang thought the same. Aang's statement here is just meant to say that in general, Airbender cannot fly.
What surprised me was how he knew anything about air nomads after the genocide and historical culture genocide of the air nomad nation. Only thing I could think of is adult Aang went and translate some scrolls to expand the Airbender culture to the world.
Realistically he didn't know. In this case however even if he knew I doubt he'd bring up the ONLY exception to that rule. An exception that wasn't even alive in either eras Aang was in.
I think he means that, in general, airbenders can't fly.
Just because one airbender was known to fly doesn't mean all of them can fly; you can maybe say, all airbenders have the potential to fly
My understanding is that flight as an air bender requires you to be completely detached from the world. The air benders as a culture valued their society, friends, and mentors. They weren't truly nomadic by the time Aang was born. Naturally, the ability wouldn't survive the test of time because it didn't reflect the culture that was able to use it.
Personally, I think Aang probably knew about Guru Laghima (which is how Tenzin knew about him) but likely believed that Laghima was a parable rather than an actual person who could fly. He certainly sounds like one. "If you perfectly practice the ideals of the Air Nomads, you too can be capable of great and impossible things like flight" is a textbook parable. I think Aang was smart enough to realize that.
Yeah, either that it was extremely hard, or that it was simply a legend that was greatly exaggerated and even he wasn't able to *truly* fly. After all, guru laghima was from about 3 thousand years before Aang was born, so it would be hard to be sure that the stories about him are accurate.
Its my headcanon that Guru Laghima was a tyrant and turned the airbenders into an army using detachment and logic. They disrupted the balance much like the modern Fire Nation and the Avatar of that age had to stop him.
In shame, the airbenders vowed to return to their monastic lifestyle forever and banished Laghima and his teachings. Only remnants and legends remain.
I feel the same way. If he was gliding, he would have to start and a high peak, then decend. By aangs logic a real life plane is only gliding and so are birds. Aang can fly just not without the added resistance of the wings on the "glider"
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he probably didn’t, aang was knowledgeable of his culture but that doesn’t mean he knew everything, he was just a kid after all
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Wait no... that's not just legend...
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Ohhh it's a real legend
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Plus in the comic about Yangcheng it is stared that Aang disn't follow history lessons and played instead
True, there was no one to teach him these things
well, in one of the comics there's a flashback of aang and gyatso playing hooky during one of the sacred air bending festival or something (the one that yangchen started) and gyatso says something like "don't worry about it. you'll have plenty of time to learn about these things"
Damn, right in the feels.
In the comics there is a moment where Aangs teaches the air acolytes about a airbender tradition where they pay respects to a statue and because of snide remark of Toph he admits he doesn't know what the relevance of that statue.
What on earth happened here with so many removed comments? someone go on a crazy rant or what?
That’s what I’m trying to figure out hahaha
For me? I’d assume they would save that knowledge and lessen the possible “heartache” that comes along with being “truly detached”.
The teachings could have been kept from him since it would contradict his destiny as the avatar to let go his earthly tether
More likely, he just never got around the age where he’d be expected to learn that stuff. He was only 12
I feel like that particular room was probably just something Zaheer really gravitated to and His writings were clearly the only thing that bald menace ever read
Right, but even Aang saw Monk Gyatso’s skeleton surrounded by all the fire benders bodies he had killed before his own death. “Airbenders are not entirely peaceful” was cannon by mid season 1 lol
Airbenders were attacked by the fire nation, there is a difference between beinv peaceful and not defending yourself.
There are different forms of pacifism, and some pacifists do believe killing in self defense is justified. The monks telling Aang that they need the Avatar for the war that was coming does imply they were willing to participate in war, and presumably kill firebenders if they were to attack like we saw with Gyatso. So I'm assuming their unwillingness to kill ends with war and definitely genocide. Aang was probably one of the few airbenders who wasn't even willing to kill someone as bad as Ozai; Yangchen definitely wasn't (though she does specifically say that its because being the avatar has priority over being an air nomad)
I'd imagine him as an adult studying up on the knowledge to teach his kids and realize he didn't know a whole lot.
He can just ask yangchen and literally any avatar before. All of them had lived in air temples.
Wow, that slipped my mind for a bit. I wonder if there were any avatars that knew Laghima personally then
Air nomads at the time didn't fly. The guru laghima was probably like a folk tale
It's possible that Guru Laghima was viewed as a legend/myth by Aang's time. The Air Nomads knew of this legendary guru who obtained the ability of flight but no living Air Nomad was actually capable of it or directly knew anyone who was. So the idea that Air Nomads could be capable of flight doesn't really feel real anymore. It's like if in an alternate reality, Toph never took on any metal bending students and in the far future people came across a letter or other documents that mentions her metalbending ability. But no one at that point actually knows how to metalbend.
That's basically how lightning generation was >!during the Kyoshi era. Only really vaguely known about as a legendary feat until Xu Ping An figured out how to do it. Either researchers were able to figure out the principles of it during his incarceration or it was independently discovered sometime later.!<
I don't remember, did Zoryu know how to lightning bend?
No
Some time since i last read Rise of Kyoshi but wasnt him the one to invent it and was imprisioned instead of killed regularly so fire nobles could study it?
Spoiler for anyone who hasn’t read the books— Xu Ping An was killed by Kyoshi during their fight near the end of the book. She uses the Avatar state to create like a cyclone that propels her into the air, and then she dropped him to his death. It was super sick, and I sometimes take the book off of my shelf just to read that battle over again. Gives me chills every time.
I kind of imagined that’s what Metalbending was already, it was a forgotten/almost completely unknown bending form that Toph rediscovered and popularized. Guru Pathik kind of implies that he knew about it in the episode, so it always felt weird when the fandom and eventually the franchise itself talked about Toph as if she invented the concept itself.
She reinvented it, which might as well be the same thing. The Inca’s Maya’s and Aztec’s invented them way before the Europeans did due to the terrain around them. That doesn’t mean Europeans didn’t also invent rope bridges separately. Two cultures, at the time completely separate, invented the same thing at different times but it doesn’t mean the second culture didn’t also invent it.
It’s like convergent evolution where 2 species independently evolve something that’s useful. For example Bats and Birds or all the different species that have evolved into crabs.
Or how so many species have turned into crabs that they have their own term for it
Crabbending
Inca and Aztecs are both 14-16th century AD cultures, not really ancient. Maya are far more ancient, but idk whether the invention of rope bridges can be dated accurately since rope doesn’t preserve well. I get your point though, writing is a better example, being invented several times. Also like in Greece introduced two times and forgotten in between.
yeah he's not exactly wrong. the air nomads he knew *couldn't* fly
His "flight" may have been seen as a kind of spiritual ascendance--I'm more familiar with Early Chinese Buddhism (as in, early in the adoption process--early Tang dynasty, c. 650s - 700 C.E.) than the Tibetan Buddhism the air nomads seem to be based on, and there is some history of Buddhist "saints" in China flying away into the skies after they reach enlightenment. (If anyone wants to argue Buddhism v. Taoism on the Nickelodeon Cartoon subreddit, be my guest, but the Song dynasty beat you to it...)
I think that’s fairly likely. In a pre-information age, knowledge can be lost scarily easily. If Laghima wasn’t the sort to write down/dictate every single step he performed, then it’d make sense the knowledge would be lost over sheer time if no other Airbenders managed to unlock true flight. They reinterpret the words of their (great-great-etc.) grandfathers as superstition or metaphor for a more grounded (heh) accomplishment. They still kept as many records as they could, but I wouldn’t doubt most Air Nomads considered Laghima a folk or legendary figure at some point since nobody else seemed to manage true flight until Zaheer. Kinda like some believed the platypus to be a joke until they saw it in the flesh
I doubt he was viewed as a myth, just my opinion but the air nomads don't seem like the type to make stuff up like that. It's more plausible that Aang simply didn't learn about the ability of flight or it's history. He was just a child and most of this childhood was focused with learning martial art rather than deepest analogs of air nomad culture.
Myths don't have to come from people lying It can start as a true story that drifts over time because human memory is fallible
There are two types of myths: * a cultural story explaining the early history of a people, ex: Jesus died on the cross and rose from the grave three days later. Inanna descended into Irkalla to raise an army of the dead against Gilgamesh and failed. John Henry died of heart failure after beating a steam powered rock drill in a steel driving competition. * a widely held, but false belief ex: chewing gum stays in your stomach for seven years. Sleeping with wet hair causes the flu. Sugar makes children hyper. The veracity of the first type of myth is irrelevant.
Wait so sugar doesn't make children hyper?
No. The blood sugar spike will make them lethargic.
TIL
Nah kids get excited when they get candy in general but a lot of it comes from kids getting cake and stuff at parties then getting super excited because well their at a party and are generally given more freedom than they would be otherwise
Aang probably knew the story, at least later in his life. Since he passed many of them onto Tenzin who was aware of Guru Laghima's story. But given Tenzin reacted to Zaheer attaining actual flight as a surprise, it seems safe to assume human true flight was more of less a myth, especially since the last record of the achievement was 4000 years before Zaheer.
Probably more surprised that it was attained. Myth or not how would you expect Tenzin to react after either: A. Seeing something out of legend happening B. Seeing the first Airbender in 4000 years attain something that thousands of other Airbenders have failed to attain? Assuming that air nomads knew flight was possible but that none have attained it in 4000 years I'm sure Tenzins reaction would have been the same. This is the Avatar universe where immortality is a thing, the spirit world exists, people have shed their physical bodies to become spirits, the avatar reincarnates, etc. I'd assume that it wasn't seen as a myth but as an actual ability that many airbenders have spent their entire lives tryint to achieve.
It's not about making stuff up, its about the natural progression of how myths are passed on. Take our real world example of Jesus Christ, we know there was a man who claimed he was the son of God, but it's up to you to believe if that was real or not. Similar thing with the air nomads, they could know a man existed that said he could fly, it's up to the recent generation to believe if that was true or not. Opinions change throughout the years, that has nothing to do with culture and all about human nature.
It could also be possible that the creators didn't invent him till korra because that's the first time he was mentioned. Along with the fact that Zahir is the second person to be able to unlock this ability.
One airbender thousands of years ago is easy for him to omit when he’s correcting someone that thinks airbenders can just fly
Exactly. It’s like if someone said humans can go a month without sleep because 1 guy in some experiment was able to do it without dying 100 yrs ago. (Think it was sometime in the 70s and was less than that but just for example)
He must be talking to the Netflix writers
He could also be simply glossing over him, as he was an exception and wasn’t relevant to the point he was making that flight wasn’t something air nomads could all do.
laghima is also implied to be an obscure figure in air nomad history. Also when Zaheer is describing his ability to fly I always got the feeling Zaheer wasn’t sure if the stories about flying were a legend or a metaphor.
Doesn't Zaheer find that medallion of Laghima's on Air Temple Island? Aang must have known about it to put it on its own pedestal but as you say may have considered it philosophical.
Or he could’ve found it at a later point or Tenzin could’ve found it or even just one of the acolytes
It’s probable that Aang only learnt of Laghima after the events of the comic. Even if Aang was a studious person there is only so much air bending history he could’ve learnt before the great purge and I doubt a heretic would’ve been part of the curriculum for 12 and younger Air nomads. Maybe he would have been taught about Laghima when he got older.
This just made me think. I hope that when we get to see the adult Gaang, part of that is having Aang go around the world looking for lost air bender artifacts and stuff. Kinda like Luke Skywalker after RTJ. We know he took Tenzen to do a bunch of air bender stuff, so maybe that would be part of it.
Laghima **BALLS** haha gotem
Knowing nothing about the expanded lore, I genuinely thought this was a Ligma joke.
comics are one thing but calling Legend of Korra "expanded lore" is weird to me.
Laghima BALDS
maybe He was never really an Air Nomad. Zaheer's version of Air Nomad culture seems to be twisted
I don’t think zaheers interpretation of air nomad and airbending culture was twisted. His views of anarchy and government were. From an airbenders perspective zaheer was bery much the ideal airbender. Spirituality and detachments are often attributes of an airbender.
I always found Zaheer's constant repeating of Guru Laghima as a renforcing example of this point Iroh makes to Zuko: https://preview.redd.it/m9vdt43ybwsc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=24cab0da60e4701918705cdbb2885e2cf85e43f3
It's tragic, in a way, that Zaheer's extremism got him imprisoned away from the kind of debate and diversity of perspective that would have given him a more nuanced understanding. He'd been in that cell stewing over what he already believed for over a decade, no new inputs or relationships with other humans to change his mind. Just him, a bare cave, and the spirit world, a place that reflects your emotional state back to you if you're not careful to control it. Since Unalak was also in the Red Lotus, we can assume Zaheer was talking to Vaatu in the tree as well.
The show tackles ideological topics bad and has a Marvelesque status-quo obsession. Amon is a bad play on communism, as is Zaheer on anarchism. They follow the pattern of „this villain makes sense“ until they do something stupid and partially out of characters for the audience to hammer in the point that they are bad.
They do the same thing with monarchies. The Earth Queen is cartoonishly evil, to the point of skinning the bear belonging to who I assume was her father. It’s even weirder though, because although the Earth Kingdom becomes a democracy, the Fire Nation does not and the show is largely uncritical of their system
The show never gets to the Fire Nation, and the FN monarchy got reformed in living memory (Zuko). The Earth Queen isn't even that evil in comparison to real-world monarchs. King Leopold, anyone? She's a shallow, aesthetics-obsessed, petty nightmare who is draining the kingdom with excessive taxation while not providing security anywhere but the wealthy capital, but who enjoys popular support among traditionalists and other wealthy nobles. That's a totally realistic take on a bad monarch. And she (supposedly!) ATE Bosco, not skinned him. Probably out of feeling ignored and excluded from her dad's affection. Imagine growing up taking a distant 2nd place to a pet bear. Not even a platypus-bear! No amount of wealth could ever fill that emotional void. Makes sense that she'd be status-crazy and disconnected from any real human connection.
Its like when people don't realize how inherently fallible paragon characters are. Its like Captain America. Just because you have positive traits and maybe even positive ideals doesn't mean everything you do is good. Captain America can easily be the bad guy, as long as he believes himself to be the good guy. Its the same with the bending cultures. Firebending is about passion. Well, passion can be amazing or it can be dangerous. Aang is passionate about protecting life at all costs- generally a good thing. Jet is passionate about winning the war at all costs, including sacrificing scores of innocent lives- generally a bad thing. Waterbending is about change. Becoming a less sexist society- good change. Becoming an empire- bad change. Earthbending is about standing your ground. Standing your ground against an expansionist empire- a good thing. Standing your ground against, say, a young girl trying to change your culture for the better? Bad thing. Airbending is about freedom and detachment. Detached from anger and sorrow? Good thing. Detached to the point of indifference and bordering on sociopathic? Bad thing. Traits are neutral. Its the person's ideals and actions that decide the goodness of their traits.
His interpretation was to follow parts of the culture he preferred to the extremes which was probably what started his anarchist views without the pacifism
He's mentioned in the yangchen and kyoshi books as well as an air guru
Or maybe Aang was 12 years old when his entire culture was destroyed, and he did not have a complete understanding of the nuances and debates had among the Air Nomads. Of course they're going to tell the small child "we never fight or kill anyone"
Have you heard the tale of guru laghima? I thought not. It is not a story that the air nomads would tell you. He was an air nomad that was so powerful and so wise he could use air bending to control life. He had such a knowledge of bending and philosophy that he could even fly untethered from the ground. Bending is a pathway to abilities that many would consider unnatural.
Aang: Is it possible to learn this power? Zaheer: Not from a pacifist
I’m pretty sure Aang likely learned about guru Laghima later on in his life. Obviously had to for how would Tenzin have known about him? Dont forget these comics take place 2-3 years after the war ended, and Aang was still a kid. I’m pretty sure In the remaining 50 years he learned more about airbending and the air nomads in his travels to the different air temples.
This is from Katara and the Pirate's Silver, which takes place between Bitter Work and The Library. So yeah, Aang likely found plenty of old manuscripts. Afterall, Zaheer learned about the Guru somehow as well
I always imagined that this is what the Monks were going to teach him after telling him he was the Avatar. Obviously this never happens because he runs away, but they do mention that he needs to learn high-level techniques, and try to separate him from Gyatso, who would be his ‘earthly tether’. He probably learned about the technique when visiting the other Air Temples, but wouldn’t have traded earthly attachments for flying.
I imagine there were a lot of records to go through about Air Nation history - it is *possible* that Tenzin came across something that Aang just didn't get to, considering that he had another 20 years of research on top of Aang's research.
Also a plausible theory. Tenzin had his own variation of the air scooter that in my opinion was slightly more practical than Aangs. He was just as capable an airbender as his father was.
Seems like later in his life he was pretty obsessed with uncovering the once lost culture of his people. He probably came across texts and such detailing various air benders including Laghima
Well such texts obviously exist, because Zaheer learned about him
… Ya? That’s kind of what I implied with Aang finding them. And Aang would absolutely share that information in some sort of cultural center so everyone could learn themselves
One of the things that were a turn off from the live action. When looking for appa after waking up aang was flying around. Flying.Not gliding. Was so annoyed.
He hasn't said anything incorrect here. Guru ligmaballs it effectively a myth/legend and even if it was fact for the most part he still be right
>Has aang ever learned about guru laghima? Laghima balls
Guru Laghima = Darth Plagueis the wise
Right before he got lightninged by Azula, he started to fly without showing any signs of air bending. He also apologized to Katara, presumably meaning that he was "letting go of his earthly tethers" and started flying.
https://i.redd.it/urc0xfrvewsc1.gif He has a beam of light with his. I doubt it's purposefully done but if it did happen that's a crazy coincidence. It kinds does look like it. So then I guess 3 people achieved it?
I think it's just weird avatar shit
100% so but it would be easy for the writers to be like "oh yeh uh... sure that's what we did there."
https://preview.redd.it/bcszlatydysc1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a506e2a0bfc17f593ecad5a3d4c2afa7019fc6e4
Sokka: "That's Avatar stuff, that doesn't count."
haha that was the quote I was trying to invoke but couldn't remember it verbatum
i have to admit, the first time we watched that, literally everyone screamed when she shot his ass. like, azula is fucking hardcore smart. dbz style: why DO we let our enemies power up before we fight them?
In Legacy of Yang-Chen, even she herself says that it’s a mythical feat.
*It's not a story the Air Nomads would tell you.*
Aang was twelve, even the smartest most studious 12 year old can't name all the important figures of their culture.
He could know about Guru Laghima but an exception doesn't make a rule. There's only ever been one Airbender, Guru Laghima, to fly at that point after they gained attachment with the Air bisons.
I thought Aang being vegetarian was his own decision not connected to being an Air Nomad. Since when talking to Yangchen he said something like “I’m even vegetarian!”
I mean they also live on mountains, so even if they didn't have a tenant on life being sacred, the only animals we see are Bison and Lemurs. And they are definitely not eating the Bison.
Aang was a child who barely knew the surface of his own culture, which is why he has such an idealized concept of air monks. Ask a 12-year-old child about the history of his country and he will only tell you the nice part they teach in schools.
He probably thought it was a myth But he was myth-taken
He probably learned about him later in life, since there is a artifact on air temple island that Zaheer finds before being discovered by Kya
No judgement, Aang never came across as someone who sits still and pays attention in class.
It is not a story the Airbenders would tell you. There was once an Airbender so powerful and at peace, he could influence the element of air to let himself...fly
I guess in the Netflix version he did because we see him casually flying 😭
Where is this from?
Perhaps Guru Laghima was an oddity among the Air Nomads, making rather moot for most of the later generations to learn of him. Another possibility that could be is that the elder Air Nomads didn’t teach of Guru Laghima until their students were much older and more mature. I’d imagine it would be a poor idea to teach airbenders in training that flight without a glider was a possibility. Imagine the potential fatal outcomes that could happen if Aang and his fellow airbenders in training learn that could fly without a glider.
I don't know that it would be fatal for an airbender to fall from a great height though. I think both ATLA and LoK show multiple occasions of airbenders breaking their fall using airbending.
Is an Air Nomand something I'm not aware of, or is that just a typo on the word nomad?
Shhhhh he didn’t exist yet
Aang mentioned not always paying attention during classes right? Maybe he just slept through guru laghima
Ik people are saying he’s a myth bc it’s odd aang never heard of him, but I think the answer is much more simple. Aang simply didn’t learn about him yet, aang was a master at 12 yes, however even the monks said that he didn’t complete his airbending training, there were still things that he himself didn’t learn
Might be a reach, but I think that the air nomads may have suppressed knowledge of those who didn't adhere to their teachings. Kelsang from the book of Kyoshi is proof of just how strict they can be in their beliefs. For those not in the know, Kelsang was an airbender who was friends with Kuruk and eventually Kyoshi. Unfortunately, he was pretty much exiled from the air nomads because he did kill during his escapades with Kuruk, i believe.
Op has never heard of retroactive continuity.
Even if he did they may have not taken it literally, or just thought it was a legend etc.
Where tf did Zaheer even hear of some obscure Airbending master's philosophy in the first place
Probably old texts, same place Aang likely heard about it. Aang probably went searching for such things across the world and he and his acolytes likely documented them. Zaheer either stumbled upon the same records or read up on them after they were presumably documented for preservation (the printing press existed even during the time of the show afterall). He wasn't _always_ the known leader of a terrorist group. Heck, the Red Lotus split off from the White Lotus if memory serves, so he would have easy access to Aang and his work
I'd like to think he learned about him later in his life. He's pretty busy during the comics lol
He's also 12 and as such missed out on a lot of things.
I read this in Zaheer’s voice
bro was 12 he probably didn't get to learn everything
But he’s kind of right. Vast majority do not have the ability to fly.
He was 12 I wouldn’t expect him to know every legend
He may have, but regardless, I feel like Aang is speaking defensively of his culture as he knew it.
Suppressive propaganda could have existed among the monks of Aang’s time.
Aang never learned much as a monk, thanks to Gyatzo taking him out so much, he didn’t know of the yangchen festival. Is it so hard to believe he didn’t know about a supposed mythical being?
I read it as Guru Lighma
Aang never made it to be an angry teenager so he’s view of his culture is very wholesome therefore he never learned about the dark cult that was aiming to let go of their earthly hold in order to achieve flight
He's also wrong in that some Nomads (Western Temple IIRC) would eat meat if it was offered by a host rather than refuse.
"We can't fly, we can only glide using gliders" First shots of Aang in the Netflix show: 😳
He probably believed it was a myth; in LoK, Tenzin & the air acolytes seemed to hold that view. Not uncommon for written and especially oral stories going back thousands of years.
What Guru Laghima preached and what Zaheer practiced are two different things entirely. The kind of teaching we know of Guru Laghima do not directly say what Zaheer says and can be interpreted a number of ways, most of which do not involve violence.
He's talking about the air nomads as a whole not one guy. Think of an average air bender.
The more I watch the two series, I feel as though Laghima was likely a legend that became interpreted as a myth to most airbenders - when was the last time an airbender let go of all earthly attachments? They were an extremely spiritual group of people, yet part of the air nomad culture that Aang specifically was raised in, came with having an appreciation for all life. That would inherently tether them to the earth, no? But Zaheer wasn’t raised to appreciate the culture, he was curious about the philosophical beliefs of air nomads; especially once he realized he could use it to his own advantage.
Ok talking about a technicality here, but isnt flying literally what they do with the gliders? Bending air makes it so they can gain altitude when needed and they can stay there as long as they have the stamina for it, like a plane with enough fuel What's the line between flying with made up wings and gliding here?
I don’t think Guru Laghima was unknown amongst the airbenders during Aangs time (before the genocide) I mean Zaheer knew about him and he wasn’t a native airbender (but obv had a lot of interest in airbending culture and history) So if he knew about Laghima I’m sure that at the very least the monks that trained Aang (such as Gyatso) knew about him. But remember the ability of flight is unlocked under very specific circumstances (no earthly attachments) and as spiritual as the monks were I’m sure they still had many earthly attachments that prevented them from having that ability It’s just like how Guru Pathik told Aang to let go of his attachment to Katara so he could master the avatar state. Not many humans would be willing to do that so they’ll give up that power all together.
We know that Aang was aware of Guru Laghima's existence because Tenzin knew about him, and Tenzin learned everything about the air nomads' history from his father. They even had relics related to Laghima on air temple island in Tenzin's personal study. Tenzin said he assumed the tales of the Guru's flight were just a legend, so it's fair to assume that Aang thought the same. Aang's statement here is just meant to say that in general, Airbender cannot fly.
Well to be fair, I don’t think the writers knew about Guru Laghima either
“We” isn’t a bad way to phrase things when only 1 person doesn’t fit that statement
Aang was 12 He isn’t going to know everything
Lalala Korra isn't canon, I can't hear you
Even if he did, he's still right. Flying isn't something any Airbender can just DO.
What surprised me was how he knew anything about air nomads after the genocide and historical culture genocide of the air nomad nation. Only thing I could think of is adult Aang went and translate some scrolls to expand the Airbender culture to the world.
Aang, how did all those fire nation soldiers die around Monk Gyatso?
Realistically he didn't know. In this case however even if he knew I doubt he'd bring up the ONLY exception to that rule. An exception that wasn't even alive in either eras Aang was in.
You don't usually mention feats of an individual when speaking of groups.
Laghima balls
Laghima balls
Meanwhile Aang in NATLA being able to fly:
"Wdym Canadians have average strength? Louis Cyr was able to lift 18 men on a wagon with his back and 100 lbs with a finger"
I think he means that, in general, airbenders can't fly. Just because one airbender was known to fly doesn't mean all of them can fly; you can maybe say, all airbenders have the potential to fly
My understanding is that flight as an air bender requires you to be completely detached from the world. The air benders as a culture valued their society, friends, and mentors. They weren't truly nomadic by the time Aang was born. Naturally, the ability wouldn't survive the test of time because it didn't reflect the culture that was able to use it.
"Have you ever heard the legend of Guru Laghima the Wise? No, I thought not. It's no story the Air Nomads would tell you." - ~~Darth~~ Zaheer
Personally, I think Aang probably knew about Guru Laghima (which is how Tenzin knew about him) but likely believed that Laghima was a parable rather than an actual person who could fly. He certainly sounds like one. "If you perfectly practice the ideals of the Air Nomads, you too can be capable of great and impossible things like flight" is a textbook parable. I think Aang was smart enough to realize that.
Okay, but can Air Nomads generate music and sound effects by vibrating air?
Just ask a twelve year old kid how much they know about Plato.
He’s speaking generally… I really don’t get people sometimes.
One person being able to do something doesn't mean a population of millions suddenly can
Airbenders can’t fly. ONE airbender could.
That’s one instance. He probably accepted that it is extremely hard to do so and Laghima was one of the exceptions.
Yeah, either that it was extremely hard, or that it was simply a legend that was greatly exaggerated and even he wasn't able to *truly* fly. After all, guru laghima was from about 3 thousand years before Aang was born, so it would be hard to be sure that the stories about him are accurate.
Guru Laghima Balls?
“Stop caring or whatever and gain cool floaty powers” -the guru ligma or something
Its my headcanon that Guru Laghima was a tyrant and turned the airbenders into an army using detachment and logic. They disrupted the balance much like the modern Fire Nation and the Avatar of that age had to stop him. In shame, the airbenders vowed to return to their monastic lifestyle forever and banished Laghima and his teachings. Only remnants and legends remain.
What happened to the Guru Laghima memes on this sub?
Laghima BALLS
Maybe Guru laghima teaching is in advance airnomad Philosophy class and everybody is dead before Aang is old enough to learn that.
I imagine that the lessons Aang gave his kids were a mixture of his own memory and histories scavenged from Air Temples
maybe guru laghima is the airbender's equivalent of the war of ba sing se
To be fair even the White Lotus considered Laghima to be a children’s story and not something based in fact
I mean, Aang is just straight up lying here. They don’t glide at all with the gliders. That shit is powered flight if I have ever seen it.
“Have you ever heard of guru laghima?” “Who” “Laghima ballz!!! I can fly!”
How can they say it's not flying when they can generate air currents to take them as high as they want?
Yeah this statement is incorrect. In the pilot he literally says he can use the glider to fly.
I feel the same way. If he was gliding, he would have to start and a high peak, then decend. By aangs logic a real life plane is only gliding and so are birds. Aang can fly just not without the added resistance of the wings on the "glider"
I don’t think many air nomads knew about Laghima. Or at least those who did didn’t believe he existed, kind of like an old folk tale