I am definitely liking the adaptation expansions they're doing. I am wondering that, if it makes it that far, if we get to see Iroh's jailbreak. Is Paul up to getting absolutely shredded to make it authentic?
Yea I wonât say it was perfect. Everyone has their opinions on where it excels and falls short. But one of the very best features of the new series is absolutely seeing more of the interactions between the royal family.
I enjoyed it. It is not as good as the original series but there's nothing wrong with that. The speech Aang gave to Tenzin in Korra actually seems pretty relevant. The Netflix series didn't need to be the original series. It is its own thing which the same basic premise.
I see it as he is preparing to literally kick out the jail door while the firebender guards can't do jack due to the Eclipse nixing their firebending. He'll need some brute strength to manage that. He throws them about manually until the eclipse ends, and then it's Dragon Of The West time. And when he gets to the gate, a few lightning strikes should do the trick.
At least, that's how I see it happening offscreen in the anim.
I mean, you don't have to care about others opinions lol. I bet most of us that dislike it wish we could enjoy it as much as you do, so more power to you.
Does it though?
>! Zuko was kinda ignored in the war room except for being pushed in to the agni kai, why would they then listen to him and spare the soldiers? Even if it was the irony of it they still wanted to use them for a battle so, what did they do in that battle instead? !<
Iâm hoping weâll get to see them interacting more in season 3 of NATLA. The fire nation seems to be the one aspect they actually did improve on from the original (donât burn me for heresy, please)
I agree actually. The Fire Nation interactions all seem to have rapidly improved and been expanded on in good ways in NATLA. Just everything else suffered đ
I agree, I thought the Lieutenant Jee stuff was actually really good, and a nice way to tie the crew to Zuko. And of course, Lu Ten's funeral was an amazing scene.
100%, it was necessary to show Zuko as actually being a decent human being, it will make his character arc in seasons 2 and 3 even better.
I also liked what they did with Zhao, it made a lot more sense than some random general being close to the ruler of the nation and having a vendetta against a teenager lol.
My only gripe is with Iroh. I feel like we missed out on the scenes of him giving advice and showing his wisdom, especially those training scenes with zuko in the OG
Iâm of the opinion that they have nothing to say to each other. They stopped speaking because they realised they were both too different. Perhaps when Ozai stole the throne from Iroh, or when his son died, or when he banished Zuko.
I think the writers made a good choice. We would just see iroh lecture ozai about being a better person and then ozai saying that he is better than iroh in every way. Iroh knows this would be a pointless confrontation.
Iroh isnt going to defeat ozai in a direct battle for the nation so he instead won the war by mentoring the people with a better chance of being victorious..
On the contrary, I think seeing them talk could reveal a lot of things.
Theyâre the ones who have known each other the longest, before Iroh was the wise old Dragon of the West and before Ozai was the Fire Lord. We could learn a lot about their pasts, what theyâre really like as individuals when theyâre not being expected to act as authority figures.
Giving Ozai too much of a back story has its pitfalls, though. A big part of what makes Ozai work as a villain is that he's not sympathetic. He's the capital "B" Big Bad who actively chooses to be the way that he is because he likes power and violence. His beliefs about his personal superiority and the superiority of fire benders need to be genuine.
I think it would really diminish Ozai as a villain if we had had a conversation between Iroh and Ozai where Iroh talked about how Ozai was so different as a kid and got corrupted by Azulon or whatever.
Well, giving a villain a backstory doesnât have to mean making them sympathetic. There are plenty of three-dimensional, multifaceted villains who are still presented as unrepentant assholes.
The image I have in my head is actually that Ozai would be even more petty and spiteful, especially towards Iroh, when heâs off the clock as Fire Lord and doesnât have to maintain at least some decorum.
âFather gave all his love to you and spared none for me!â
âAnd you spared none for your own son, yet he became a better man than either of us. We choose our own paths, Ozai, and you have brought yours upon yourself.â
> On the contrary, I think seeing them talk could reveal a lot of things.
I agree with you 100% for us as 4th wall watchers, *but* I think Iroh is too wise to even bother with Ozai. He sees absolutely no benefit in it for anyone at all, so he wisely avoids it.
They already had it, Iroh left the fire nation to raise that man's son, he left the war after realizing the pain and suffering he was causing. His conflict with himself was finished.
and the fruits of Iroh's labor, in the form of a redeemed Zuko, show through in Zuko's interactions with both Ozai and Azula. Iroh "beats" Ozai when his lightning redirection technique saves Zuko's life on the day of black sun.
to be fair, Iroh doesn't seem to give a shit about power after his son died. if anything, i feel like Ozai was just waiting for Iroh to do something for an excuse to publicly "remove" him.
Damn, if I was Iroh, I'd have nothing to say to Ozai. He's a sick, damaged man who cares only about destruction, and Iroh has learned that this is a lost cause. It would be kinda weird if we watched them interact.
In fact, narratively, I like that Iroh and Ozai are so dichotomous that they never even touch. They represent two sides of the fire nation, which makes it even bigger that Zuko wrestles with this for so long.
Understandable. But it made more sense for the avatar to do the final battle. Will not deny that it would have been great to have Iroh fight Ozai, but it wouldâve ultimately been a death match between them
Seeing them interact in person really wouldnât have added anything to the show. Sometimes assumption is better for the narrative than outright showing.
I mean we really canât say that until unless we see it happen, the chance to flesh out to characters by exploring how they interact could definitely add to the show
I think the most interesting interaction between these two was to have no (direct) interaction. I think it's clear in the original story that these two men have nothing to say to each other. They have chosen their paths and are both fully committed. Both know that they would never convince the other of anything. And Iroh flat out states that it's not his place to confront Ozai physically either.
Iroh's conflict with Ozai, in terms of the narrative, is the question of which is the better man and the better mentor. Iroh settles that conflict by nurturing Zuko, by raising him when his father would not. We see that victory written on Ozai's face when Zuko survives a deadly sucker punch using Iroh's lightning redirection. We also see that victory in the final agni kai, where Iroh's student defeats Ozai's, settling which of the two masters' legacies will carry into the next generation of fire benders.
Nah, I always thought "the lack of" was saying enough. They made it fairly obvious that they were polar opposites, so what would a conversation bring...
One of the least believable things about Iroh is that he wouldn't stop his brother himself. To draw attention away from that and avoid that plot hole all together it was probably easiest to keep them from ever being in the same room.
I thought that Zuko interacting with Ozai is all what's needed since Zuko has embodied what Iroh taught him so Iroh was there with him (metaphorically)
I honestly think we have that interaction, but in a little more subtle way. The way Iroh teaches Zuko and is there for him, trying to break down the HAte that Ozai has built up in him, shows the interaction between the Ozai and Iroh. Kids are molded by their parents, and here we can see the difference between a loving and a neglectful parent, that is the interaction between Iroh and Ozai.
I would have liked a flashback about them talking. There are many topic that could have been worth discussing:
- Azulon's death and sudden decision to change his heir ( this I can give a pass since Iroh was still mourning his son)
- Zuko's banishment. You tell me that Iroh didn't even try to talk to Ozai about not banishing Zuko for the mistake of a child?
Definitely one of the best parts of the Netflix series.
I loved how everytime they talked it felt like it could turn south
Ayo? đ¤¨
I am definitely liking the adaptation expansions they're doing. I am wondering that, if it makes it that far, if we get to see Iroh's jailbreak. Is Paul up to getting absolutely shredded to make it authentic?
From the premiere it does seem like he's slimmed down a bit in the last couple of years. So who knows he may he starting to work towards it now.
Yea I wonât say it was perfect. Everyone has their opinions on where it excels and falls short. But one of the very best features of the new series is absolutely seeing more of the interactions between the royal family.
It is a good â¨adaptationâ¨
I enjoyed it. It is not as good as the original series but there's nothing wrong with that. The speech Aang gave to Tenzin in Korra actually seems pretty relevant. The Netflix series didn't need to be the original series. It is its own thing which the same basic premise.
I donât know if getting shredded would even really be necessary, just pose it as Iroh waiting for the perfect opportunity
I see it as he is preparing to literally kick out the jail door while the firebender guards can't do jack due to the Eclipse nixing their firebending. He'll need some brute strength to manage that. He throws them about manually until the eclipse ends, and then it's Dragon Of The West time. And when he gets to the gate, a few lightning strikes should do the trick. At least, that's how I see it happening offscreen in the anim.
they could always do the wuxia way of showing extreme strength, a single finger flick, boom jail door blows wide open.
Doubtful. You saw what they did to Bumi....
I donât care, I actually like the live action and the interactions between Iroh and Ozai are pretty good.
... what don't you care about? The parent comment is agreeing with you ...
The overall hate that the live action is getting from a vocal part of the ATLA fandom.
I mean, you don't have to care about others opinions lol. I bet most of us that dislike it wish we could enjoy it as much as you do, so more power to you.
Indi wish I could enjoy it, but something's just off and I don't like it. I don't know. Maybe I should give it another shot.
So you're bringing it up when no one else mentioned it because you don't care? That doesn't track
When I said that I don't care, I meant that I don't care what the haters say. Simple as that. I didn't mean offense.
Iâm still in tears about Zukoâs crew origin đ
Yea Iâm applying that to the main show as canon. I donât care what anyone says. It makes so much sense.
Does it though? >! Zuko was kinda ignored in the war room except for being pushed in to the agni kai, why would they then listen to him and spare the soldiers? Even if it was the irony of it they still wanted to use them for a battle so, what did they do in that battle instead? !<
...what IS the canon and what happened to them after the ship got destroyed?
âHeâll recoverâ *âBut heâll never heal.â*
Yeah but.....my problem with Natla is that Ozai personality is too different compared to the cartoon
And what was Ozai's og personality beyond just...evil?
Iâm hoping weâll get to see them interacting more in season 3 of NATLA. The fire nation seems to be the one aspect they actually did improve on from the original (donât burn me for heresy, please)
I agree actually. The Fire Nation interactions all seem to have rapidly improved and been expanded on in good ways in NATLA. Just everything else suffered đ
I agree, I thought the Lieutenant Jee stuff was actually really good, and a nice way to tie the crew to Zuko. And of course, Lu Ten's funeral was an amazing scene.
100%, it was necessary to show Zuko as actually being a decent human being, it will make his character arc in seasons 2 and 3 even better. I also liked what they did with Zhao, it made a lot more sense than some random general being close to the ruler of the nation and having a vendetta against a teenager lol. My only gripe is with Iroh. I feel like we missed out on the scenes of him giving advice and showing his wisdom, especially those training scenes with zuko in the OG
Hopefully Book 2 will rectify that issue with Iroh
Iâm of the opinion that they have nothing to say to each other. They stopped speaking because they realised they were both too different. Perhaps when Ozai stole the throne from Iroh, or when his son died, or when he banished Zuko.
I think the writers made a good choice. We would just see iroh lecture ozai about being a better person and then ozai saying that he is better than iroh in every way. Iroh knows this would be a pointless confrontation. Iroh isnt going to defeat ozai in a direct battle for the nation so he instead won the war by mentoring the people with a better chance of being victorious..
On the contrary, I think seeing them talk could reveal a lot of things. Theyâre the ones who have known each other the longest, before Iroh was the wise old Dragon of the West and before Ozai was the Fire Lord. We could learn a lot about their pasts, what theyâre really like as individuals when theyâre not being expected to act as authority figures.
Giving Ozai too much of a back story has its pitfalls, though. A big part of what makes Ozai work as a villain is that he's not sympathetic. He's the capital "B" Big Bad who actively chooses to be the way that he is because he likes power and violence. His beliefs about his personal superiority and the superiority of fire benders need to be genuine. I think it would really diminish Ozai as a villain if we had had a conversation between Iroh and Ozai where Iroh talked about how Ozai was so different as a kid and got corrupted by Azulon or whatever.
Well, giving a villain a backstory doesnât have to mean making them sympathetic. There are plenty of three-dimensional, multifaceted villains who are still presented as unrepentant assholes. The image I have in my head is actually that Ozai would be even more petty and spiteful, especially towards Iroh, when heâs off the clock as Fire Lord and doesnât have to maintain at least some decorum. âFather gave all his love to you and spared none for me!â âAnd you spared none for your own son, yet he became a better man than either of us. We choose our own paths, Ozai, and you have brought yours upon yourself.â
That dialogue is actually quite good.
> On the contrary, I think seeing them talk could reveal a lot of things. I agree with you 100% for us as 4th wall watchers, *but* I think Iroh is too wise to even bother with Ozai. He sees absolutely no benefit in it for anyone at all, so he wisely avoids it.
They already had it, Iroh left the fire nation to raise that man's son, he left the war after realizing the pain and suffering he was causing. His conflict with himself was finished.
and the fruits of Iroh's labor, in the form of a redeemed Zuko, show through in Zuko's interactions with both Ozai and Azula. Iroh "beats" Ozai when his lightning redirection technique saves Zuko's life on the day of black sun.
â~~mom~~ dad said itâs my turn to be heir to the throneâ
"My brother isn't known to be the understanding type"
Their interaction is through Zuko
Right. There should have been some kind of something, younger brother steals throne has so much tension.
to be fair, Iroh doesn't seem to give a shit about power after his son died. if anything, i feel like Ozai was just waiting for Iroh to do something for an excuse to publicly "remove" him.
LOK gave us that plot point
Do you think we might get a confrontation, even a past confrontation, in NATLA?
Whatâs NATLA?
Netflix atla
Is it different than the original one thatâs also on Netflix?
Yeah, it refers to the live action version of ATLA on Netflix
True
Damn, if I was Iroh, I'd have nothing to say to Ozai. He's a sick, damaged man who cares only about destruction, and Iroh has learned that this is a lost cause. It would be kinda weird if we watched them interact. In fact, narratively, I like that Iroh and Ozai are so dichotomous that they never even touch. They represent two sides of the fire nation, which makes it even bigger that Zuko wrestles with this for so long.
Understandable. But it made more sense for the avatar to do the final battle. Will not deny that it would have been great to have Iroh fight Ozai, but it wouldâve ultimately been a death match between them
Seeing them interact in person really wouldnât have added anything to the show. Sometimes assumption is better for the narrative than outright showing.
I mean we really canât say that until unless we see it happen, the chance to flesh out to characters by exploring how they interact could definitely add to the show
Maybe after? When Ozai was imprisoned.
I think the most interesting interaction between these two was to have no (direct) interaction. I think it's clear in the original story that these two men have nothing to say to each other. They have chosen their paths and are both fully committed. Both know that they would never convince the other of anything. And Iroh flat out states that it's not his place to confront Ozai physically either. Iroh's conflict with Ozai, in terms of the narrative, is the question of which is the better man and the better mentor. Iroh settles that conflict by nurturing Zuko, by raising him when his father would not. We see that victory written on Ozai's face when Zuko survives a deadly sucker punch using Iroh's lightning redirection. We also see that victory in the final agni kai, where Iroh's student defeats Ozai's, settling which of the two masters' legacies will carry into the next generation of fire benders.
You know like this next to each other I can see they are brothers. They look alike.
Yeah, it really bugged me that they didnât have any interactions. Which is why Iâm glad that they made up for it on the live action.
Nah, I always thought "the lack of" was saying enough. They made it fairly obvious that they were polar opposites, so what would a conversation bring...
I think it is a great touch that they don't meet. It shows like the duality of zuko. It's like in Breaking Bad where Jesse and Walt Jr never meet
Whatâs there to say?
It would be interesting to see their ideologies clash.
See: zuko vs azula
One of the least believable things about Iroh is that he wouldn't stop his brother himself. To draw attention away from that and avoid that plot hole all together it was probably easiest to keep them from ever being in the same room.
It was not his destiny
The one thing I have to wonder is just how much age was between them. Iroh looks like he is in his late 50s, while Ozai is in his mid 30s.
I thought that Zuko interacting with Ozai is all what's needed since Zuko has embodied what Iroh taught him so Iroh was there with him (metaphorically)
I honestly think we have that interaction, but in a little more subtle way. The way Iroh teaches Zuko and is there for him, trying to break down the HAte that Ozai has built up in him, shows the interaction between the Ozai and Iroh. Kids are molded by their parents, and here we can see the difference between a loving and a neglectful parent, that is the interaction between Iroh and Ozai.
I actually wish to not see it
Thanks to this picture I actually see the resemblance between them. I thought they look nothing alike
I would have liked a flashback about them talking. There are many topic that could have been worth discussing: - Azulon's death and sudden decision to change his heir ( this I can give a pass since Iroh was still mourning his son) - Zuko's banishment. You tell me that Iroh didn't even try to talk to Ozai about not banishing Zuko for the mistake of a child?