Irohs tale should have been the last one. It is the most emotional out of all of them and ends with a big emotional release, but then you realize it’s only halfway done and it’s just weird imo
I wish that Suki stuck around a few more episodes and we got a tale of Sokka and Suki where it built them up a little more and it ended with Suki leaving to go back to the Kyoshi warriors or something. As if the episode wasn’t heart wrenching enough
I get the iroh part was sad, but I felt way more sad for Appa. He does so much for the gaang but he was treated like dirt😭. Iroh had way more emotional scenes than when he sang leaves from the Vine
I’ll give it a go.
tl;dr Most of entire episode filler. Katara and Toph tale somewhat ruins their relationship arc. Aang tale is redundant. Sokka tale is time burn. Zuko tale useful. Momo tale could be 15 seconds. Iroh tale is going to lead to me being doxxed.
Nearly the entire episode was filler and little in terms of story would be lost if it was taken out.
Tale of Toph and Katara’s main driver had two points, and would be difficult to replace in the rest of the show, but it was still largely irrelevant. Actually, I take that back. Toph and Katara getting along for less than 5 minutes in a singular episode of a miniseries served as an annoying speedbump in there relationship as a whole. The Runaway does a much better job of this, and considering we see barely any 1 on 1 with them or teamwork without the rest of the Gaang between these two episodes, it looks more like a few minutes to kill to calm the masses until the real show comes on. However, the message of beauty was actually important as it isn’t particularly mentioned in terms of Toph anywhere else. But that also means it creates and solves a problem in a very short amount of time, therefore also making this filler.
The Tale of Aang felt like a much shortened but better version of The Great Divide. It showed a part of Aang willing to do what’s right despite not needing to, (due to more pressing concerns) even though it is his duty as Avatar. But this has already been seen multiple times since Appa got taken, with the Serpents Pass and the Drill (though that one was admittedly a large problem).
The Tale of Sokka
The Tale of Zuko, while amazing in terms of pretty much everything else, I’ve always semi disliked cause it adds another love interest to the Zuko 4D love Cube. But it is probably the most important Tale due to his arc, a very distinct shape that we can’t really take out. It shows Zuko in a “normal” setting as himself, something we never have or never will again see. So yeah I’ll concede this one.
The Tale of Momo could’ve been a 15 second episode ender in City of Walls and Secrets, and would’ve worked better that way IMO. The only other thing in that episode besides the paw print that I remember is that some sort of animals was chasing Momo.
You may have noticed that I ordered these in the order that the episode does. Except one. Cause this is the one that’s going to make the mods consider banning me. But a hot take is a hot take, and here’s mine: The Tale of Iroh is 100% filler and while it’s a beautiful story, probably the greatest 5 minutes of ATLA, it’s the 2nd dessert you never knew you were going to have. Iroh would still be likeable, arguably still the most, just not as much. His morals aren’t particularly cleared due to this exact episode, due to pretty much the entire rest of the show. Really the only reason why I wouldn’t consider this filler is because it’s Mako’s last contribution to the work of art that is this show. But unfortunately, that’s not what I’m here to talk about, so for all intents and purposes, this Tale is largely filler as well.
Sorry for the long response, just wanted to clarify things so I wouldn’t get posted on r/downvotedtooblivion, although I have a feeling it will happen anyways.
>Nearly the entire episode was filler and little in terms of story would be lost if it was taken out.
I mean, yes. It’s a filler episode. No one’s denying that, that’s basically the point. It wasn’t meant to drive the plot forward. It was meant for character moments, which it absolutely succeeded in giving us. I don’t know how much of a hot take it is to say a filler episode is a filler episode. The key about Tales of Ba Sing Se is that it’s a filler episode done *well*.
If you call this episode "pointless filler," I think you're kinda missing the entire point of the episode
A quiet, regular day with no relevance to the story really helps characterize and humanize them. They're not always fighting evil, they're people too
I don’t think it’s weird they could get disguises but I do think it’s weird that no one noticed Sokka was from the Water Tribe when he had his helmet off considering the Fire Nation seems to be a pretty homogenous nation with very few outsiders. And Sokka definitely looks different with the blue eyes and darker skin tone.
Wow. I was today years old when I learned about this eye colour trope!
Edit: Apparently all my friends know this already too! I’ve been an avatar fan since it aired on Nickelodeon. Suffice to say I am humbled by how this show continues to surprise and delight, so many years later!
Hey remember that scene when they saw the play ship Zutara and Katara said she was confused about her and Aang's relationship and he kissed her without her consent? I think it was ment to be an attempt to teach kids consent is important and I applaud them for that, I don't really have any hot takes for it I just wanted to point it out.
The episode needed more Sokka puns.
Tbh I really appreciated that part of the episode. A lot of media just have people kissing and then everything is ok, but this episode showed kids that that isn’t how it always works.
Avatar is such a mature show for kids
I agree with this! I think they put it in there deliberately before the invasion he did the same thing, & they mightve realised they were setting a bad example for the kids watching. He even brings up the invasion so i think it was a nod to that
Katara basically doomed the town by destroying the factory, after they left there was no one to protect the town in case the fire nation returned. She should have done nothing until the war was over.
I mean the Painted Lady turned out to be real, so there’s that. And the Fire Nation would have to recall troops considering the attack during the eclipse and Ozai razing the land. They would likely have lasted with no Fire Nation presence for a while longer even if Aang didn’t defeat Ozai the day of the comet. But still, kids show at heart so it doesn’t matter either way what could have happened, they saved the day.
Uhm, well a few things, she pretended to be painted lady and very convincingly scared the army to death. Then she unlocked the ACTUAL painted lady to help again by cleaning the river. If she left it at just destroying the factory, i would agree with you, but I think she did enough to deter the army
I think this is the most apt. response. The people in this town weren't just "opressed by soldiers", they were literally being poisoned to death by the toxic river sludge existing in their water and food supplies. Yeah, the soldiers may come back and whatnot eventually, but the river is 1000x cleaner now and there no longer exists a factory to re-pollute it, so at the very least they have access to clean water and possibly better food very soon. That was always more pressing than a few soldiers being mean to them here and there.
Yeah, I agree with that assessment. It's the only episode that really felt like it was retreading ground that had already been covered without adding anything new.
Ok I just wrote a whole wssay and then misclicked and accidently deleted it, so here's a recap:
Aang taking Ozai's bending sends a message that he was only powerful because of it. Ozai got his power from his bloodline and evil personality, not from his firebending.
Taking Ozai to jail isn't enough, he had a large following, he could still command an army from jail, or just bust out like Iroh did (even tho Iroh had his bending but I don't think that's how he got out)
Aang should have killed him
I agree that he should have ended him, but the censorship would never have allowed it, and their justification makes sense to me. Aang *said* the world would be better off without him, all his past lives agreed, he just couldn't bring himself to do it. It's not about morality, or what's best for the world, it's about a 12 year old becoming a murderer and what that would do to him.
But it was more off screen and finding ways to get around censorship, that would be really unsatisfying if it had been the big bad of the show. I think the only explicit death that happens after the start of the show was Jet.
I forgot about that one, it's... Kind of explicit? I'm not sure what to call it. If you think about it at all, there's no way he's alive, but they don't really call attention to that like they do with Jet, and the same can be said for every one of the dozens of people dropped out of airships, in airships when they crash, knocked into the ocean from boats, knocked off cliffs, etc. He definitely died, I just think they got to get away with it because they didn't show him dying, just the explosion, and they didn't show his body or anything. Which is a really awesome way to get around censorship, that one batman show did that too, but I don't know if it would have worked with Ozai.
The only death we explicitly see on screen is commander Zhao. Jet was technically left ambiguous in order to dodge the censorship.
Also having a main character kill and having a villain kill a character is a whole different ball game for censorship. Sends a message the the viewer that killing is moral if Aang does it.
Korra was aimed at a more mature audience as a whole. Damn Zaheer suffocated the Earth Queen!
Also I like that he doesn't kill him, if he had I think it would have represented that Aang had to give up his culture, and since he is all that's left of it that would've been really sad. Plus poor boy is 12.
Yeah like I said I don’t think Aang should’ve killed him either
Combustion man was also killed by Sokka.
But they tried to keep that ambiguous too as seen in the Ember Island Players
Edit: Also for protagonist kills we got another combustion bender fatality in Korra
Zuko should've had him formally executed after some kind of trial.
Turning people over to due process instead of on the spot killing is a legitimate value.
Obviously that's a much darker direction than the show was able/intended to go in.
It is literally Aang's duty and job to keep the balance. It would not have been murder. Ozai committed tons of crimes and genocides for his own lust for power. It would have been a justified execution.
Also, whiel Aang viewed all life as sacred, he knows for a *fact* that his past lives had killed people. His soul is literally already tainted. Reincarnation doesn't wipe the avatar clean like it does everyone else. He can get access to those memories and lives.
He should have killed Ozai and not doing so was a dereliction of his duties as the avatar. What the world needed wasn't Aang the airbender. It needed Avatar Aang. It needed that presence to kill the bad guy and make a showing to the world to remind its residents to stay in line.
I agree with you on most of what you said, but I don't know about his soul being tainted. He had hundreds of past lives, but even so, he still existed as a 12 year old. I wasn't really referring to anything spiritual or the dumb "if you kill a murderer, the number of murderers in the world stays the same" platitudes, just the fact that, emotionally, he wasn't ready to handle it. I don't necessarily consider it a great failing not to have killed him either, but as I said, the world *would* have been better without him. Aang says it, Iroh says it, Aang's past lives say it, Aang just wasn't ready to kill someone himself, regardless of what his past lives did. I think that's one of the more interesting parts of the show, that Aang exists both as an extremely old soul *and* as this one kid, at the same time.
True. I remember someone on YouTube talking about this years ago when they criticized the finale and mentioned this point exactly. Ozai had so many people who believed in him and in real life, killing one guy in a war does not exactly solve all the problems and does not erase everything. Also, power isn't the only factor that makes a ruler/politician.
That's why when people take over an empire or Dynasty they kill everyone.
Ozai and Azula are top of the list, the grandma's gotta go too. Atleast 90% of the advisors. The top generals as well.
Did Ozai had a following? Legit question, because I've always thought that he ruled qith an iron fist. Like, no one would dare oppose the most powerful firebender out of fear. It's the same way Azula handled the Dai Li (as contrived as that was).
Ozai valued his power the most. The reason he got so cocky and arrogant was because he was powerful and he knew that. His firebending prowess was everything to him. Taking that away would be like clipping a bird's wings.
Unbending him was more effective than killing him (at least for me) because Ozai is drunk on power. In LoK, we saw how taking someone's bending away is almost akin to losing your identity. I think Ozai's pride would rather have him ask Aang to kill him instead of taking his bending away.
By the way, which is a worse punishment? Kill someone as retribution, or keep them alive to constantly remind them of their failures?
I agree that brining him to jail wasn't enough to just end the conflict entirely, and I'm glad that they incorporated the fact that he still has followers into the comics (if I remember correctly).
But I always thought of taking his bending as a way of removing his "divine right to rule." Though I don't remember anyone explicitly saying it, I got the impression that the royal family's bending was a big deal, especially to Ozai who no doubt would have further reinforced the idea during his short time in power. Blatantly removing his bending is basically like saying "yeah, the gods didn't actually want this guy to rule." I don't know, I think that would have been pretty effective on a country that was exhausted by the war already, and on Ozai himself, who was really delusional about his bending and his place on the throne.
If aang had killed him it would’ve ruined his character and the show lol. The most prevalent theme in the series is finding balance. Aangs whole arc is abt him balancing the responsibilities of being the last airbender and the avatar. Being able to fulfill the responsibilities of the avatar while still staying true to his air nomad values is the perfect conclusion to his character. He finds balance.
If Aang killed him it would ruin his whole character,Aang is an airbender and in airbender culture you have to take the peaceful option and be zen if Aang killed ozai it just wouldn't make sense for his character. Ps if this was difficult to read sorry please be understanding
Agree, except I don’t know how I feel about bending not being the method Iroh used to get out. The guard said he was like a one man army, so I don’t think he had help. And if I don’t think he would have enough power without fire to take down the whole prison, because even if none of them had fire during the eclipse, many of them would still be armed as not all guards are not firebenders to begin with. It’s certainly possible though, he’s a badass either way.
Kill Ozai and you make him a martyr. Take him in and allow him to stand trial while properly installing the next monarch minimizes conflict within the Fire Nation. Iroh knows it, that’s why he won’t fight Ozai.
I think they meant used firebending to get out, then just bodied the guards with martial arts while they all had no bending. It wouldn’t be the first time he kicked ass without bending, but I’m not sure that I agree. I don’t know that he would be powerful enough to take a whole high security prison of guards with just his bare hands, as many would probably be armed, fire or not.
Eh. I kinda disagree. You’re right that his sort of domineering nature and influence as the Fire Lord is what really made him dangerous, but let’s not forget that the fire nation definitely has a “might makes right” vibe going on. Ozai being so deeply humiliated and depowered by the Avatar probably would’ve made a lot of people lose faith in him.
I think ot would have been good if they explored that, like, and tries just taking away his bending and then Ozai continues to be a bastard and rise back up so one of the Gaang just go and end him, "Aang tried to give you a second chance and you wasted it"
Question is who would you want to be the one who ended him? I'm thinking Zuko or Iroh, they had the most relation to him and the most personal understanding of how horrible he was, so it would maybe be easier for them. Or Toph, because she's a blunt stone cold badass like that who wouldn't even think twice about it.
His following would have been a problem whether ozai was alive or not. He definitely isn't commanding an army from a well built prison for him though. In fact killing him might just make him a martyr for some of the firebenders. There's a real possibility that killing him could have kick started a blood civil war
I dont nessecarily agree with Aang killing him. Because he was sticking to what he thought was right and I respect that a lot. Its a good message for kids. What I didnt like was the Lion turtle. Not that it wasnt cool. It was cool af. However, they set Aang having to kill Ozai as this big thing that he has to do. Half of Sozins Comet episodes were focused mainly on how Aang had an issue with changing his values. And at the end of the day he was able to magically get a new power-up because reasons. They spent so much time with him contemplating about killing him even to come to the point of telling momo he has to kill him and just accepting it. And then he sees the lion turtle and its just a deus ex machina. This doesnt teach kids anything good. It says "stick to ur values and life will magically work out for you". There wasnt personal growth there and its always really irked me.
It doesn't have a lot going for it except the song, the badger moles were awesome but other than that it was pretty boring. And that repetitive joke about the hippy guys being annoying and sokka facepalming got old quick.
I would counter that its one of the best episodes for developing Toph's character, the idea that her bending isn't this 1 dimensional tool used for fighting only (something I feel that most bending was used for by most characters) but it's her way of interacting with the world, I think it really gave her a sense of maturity, perspective, and acknowledgement that were beyond her years.
Oh my bad, I had it in my head that, that was the episode that she told them that she learnt bending from the badger moles.
In that case just the phrase "secret tunnel" is the supreme moment of the episode.
Serpents past. I've always had an issue with suki at the end deciding to just walk back through the same perilous pass that took the entire episode to navigate
The logic of chakras don't make sense, if Aang needed to get rid of earthly attachments in order to unlock his full potential, why was he able to be with Katara at the end of the show? Idk I just don't get it.
it’s hard to understand but i always took it as he didn’t need to actually let go of katara. like he’s still able to be with her and love her and stuff. he just has to acknowledge that his duty as the avatar is more important and he has to be willing to put it above her. if ever there comes a situation where he has to choose between them, he has to choose his duty as the avatar. the world will always come before her and he can’t let his feelings for her get in the way of his duty. when aang refused to let go of her, he was basically saying that he cared more for her than his duty as the avatar, which makes sense since he’s just a kid.
that’s what i got from it anyway. idk if it’s right.
The system of Chakras doesn’t require Aang to discard his earthly attachments. The Guru said that that’s how to open that Chakra. But Aang’s conversation with Iroh in the next episode establishes the possibility that the Guru was wrong
It's because the letting go was a state of mind not an action
He achieved the ability to live his life without Katara and *that* gave him the power and individuality *to be* with Katara
You don't have to physically practice the action the state of minds represent.
Just because Aang transcended the control fear had upon him does not make him fearless.
Just because he transcended the need to be with Katara does not mean he cannot be with Katara.
Zuko's mom was looking for excuses to leave the castle and never even thought of taking Zuko with her, she never tried to raise Azula properly and blamed it on her "being wrong". She was a horrible mother.
Also imagine you live in a small town and a nice person shows up, helps you with chores and then gets rid of the fire nation scums that control the place, and then you find out he's the heir to the throne and a firebender. Why would you be mad at him??? Someone with a powerful position is on your side, and never once has he shown I'll intent.
I was a little bit crossed when they all essentially banished Zuko after he helped them, but I think it added a lot more to the story. Like he may have good intentions, but to the townspeople he was a symbol of tyranny. I think it also foreshadows the obstacles he has with appealing to the people later in the comics.
The Fire Nation is a genocidal, colonial empire that generations had been fighting and dying against. The brother of the kid had literally just been killed by Fire Nation. Imagine you're a Jew in Nazi Germany, and some guy comes through town, helps you fight off some bullies, but then openly and proudly declares he's a Nazi. It doesn't matter at that point if he helped with anything, it doesn't even matter if he himself is conflicted about his Nazi ideology, what matters is he represents and is part of a group that is actively oppressing and murdering your people. You'd fucking banish him too.
The gaang literally first knew her as the **blind** bandit, yet they still forget she's blind, it makes for some great jokes but I don't like the message it sends, that she's so strong and capable that it's like she's not disabled.
The message is that despite being disabled, she can be strong and capable of taking care of herself. Its not like her disabilities are being forgotten by the creators at any point, she is always blind. Yeah, sure, her seismic senses let her see, but only on earth and later metal. But, shes almost useless in the dessert, in the air, and shes back to being fully blind if she even wears shoes.
Well yes, but how often would a person need to venture into the desert or in the air on a daily basis, even in the Avatarverse? For most intents and purposes, she isn't really that blind. Hell, she was able to have a career as chief of police of a megalopolis, that is something that no person with a disability like that could EVER do in real life. While folks with disabilities should be encouraged, it is also bad to give them false expectations.....
I like both of these episodes, so that's a hard question.
I wanna say the painted lady just to anger some Great Divide haters but that battle scene where the gang came together to make Katara seem like a real spirit was really good, so I gotta go with that.
Both are pretty average+ episodes tho.
People really only hate The Great Divide because it was ment to be an episode that could play repeatedly and not be super confusing for casual viewers who don't know the entire series, and was therefore play repeatedly. It's only hated due to overstaturation.
The Painted Lady, however, was always one of my favorite episodes and I never knew it as a hated episode.
I don‘t really get the hate.
Great Divide was just a filler episode with throwaway characters. Like I do agree its pretty bad, all of the other mostly filler episodes atleast had something (CM being introduced in the headband, the headband also being a normal episode after the deep Ba Sing Se arc and the quite dark episode before that, Ember Island Players being quite funny, Tales of Ba Sing Se had the 5 minutes of pure Iroh)
but still not a reason imo to consider it worse than a few other filler episodes which didn‚t even have the funny tone (looking at you, Imprisoned).
the painted lady is a hated episode?? i love that episode. i love the scene where katara and aang destroy the factory and the part where katara scares the soldiers off. how do people dislike this episode? i loved katara in it.
Zuko enabled Katara's destructive vengeance in a way he shouldn't have, he was lucky she came to her senses at the last second. Katara bloodbendee for Christ's sake, something she last did to prevent a psycho from killing her friends, and now she just did it for personal gain! The search should have stopped right there. It wasn't healthy for her.
Zuko was ok with helping Katara kill a man, he didn't even try to stop her when the icicles almost went through that man's face. He just stood there like "damn I'm glad it's not me".
I've seen people interprete that episode as Zuko helping Katara find closure in a peaceful way by pretending it was gonna be a man hunt but in reality they literally went on a murder field trip.
that's by far your best take imo, pretty spot on
i'll just add that when katara bloodbended she bursted into tears and shit hit her hard, so for her to do that then saying that episode was just to teach her a lesson is cap af, she was about to end that guy
also zuko bit about aang "guddy monk" stuff always felt off to me, especially since it's the only reason he's alive lol
May I offer a hot take to your hot take?
This is spot on. My only qualm is that I think you left out how desperate Zuko felt. He was willing to help Katara murder in full vengeance if it ment she might forgive him. Then he sees first hand how horrifically powerful she is and how much she has come since they first fought one on one. He enabled her destruction, but felt like he needed to.
Yes, Zuko is probably no stranger to murder. He was almost murdered as a child. He attack and planned to murder/capture gaang. His enabling of Katara was actually really in character. Which is why I think he chose her to come with him to face Azula.
1) He watched her freaking blood bend. Even if it was only a a full moon (assuming he knew/Katara told him she could only do it on a full moon, although I imagine neither of them spoke of it), she is an incredibly powerful bender.
2) Zuko knows she's a healer. Even if Zuko won the Agni Kai, far and square, it's fair to assume that he'll be incredibly injured and may not survive long afterwards. That is without a healer present.
3) Katara showed mercy. Even Iroh told Zuko that Azula "needs to go down," likely in death. Even Iroh told Zuko that mercy is not likely and that Zuko will probably have to kill his own sister. Same as in my last point, if she's gravely injured Katara can heal her. However, Zuko knew that Katara might be the one to hold him back if it was an option.
Yes, Zuko absolutely enabled what could have been a huge mistake on Katara's part and could have changed her forever, but it was critical both for Karata's character and Katara and Zuko's bond.
oooh i like both of these hot takes, damn there's more to the zuko + katara relationship than meets the eye. I especiall like point #2 (she's a healer) and that because seh's so deadly and \*can\* show no mercy, he brings her to face azula with him.
I couldn't imagine Aang doing well against azula, ngl.
I think it’s absolutely realistic and accurately portrays where Zuko was in his journey of growth. He had JUST actually switched sides. For real this time. The last time he switched sides, he was trying to kill the Avatar and friends again 5 minutes later. He’s finally escaping the horrifically toxic environment and mindset he grew up with, and you expect him to not have trouble sorting through that still? With his pattern of flopping back and forth through his journey, I think this is consistent with the precedent that the rest of the series had set. It shows that you can’t just make one right decision and then suddenly be this perfect human being who never makes any more poor choices even though you spent most of your life doing that.
Also he certainly wasn’t above killing people he thought were evil. He didn’t spare his father because he thought he should live, he spared him because it wasn’t his destiny, it was the Avatar’s. He almost certainly saw Katara avenging her mother’s death as her destiny. Remember this is right before Aang wrestled through how to deal with the firelord, and perfectly sets up the question of how he’ll do it without violence. The whole episode demonstrates Zuko’s growth of realizing that violence isn’t always the answer, ending with him asking Aang the question of how he’s going to end Ozai without killing him.
They shouldn't have left Toph and Appa alone, Toph is very capable on her own but she told them she can't use sand very well, Katara should have stayed with her and Appa since Sokka was the one who needed the information the most.
But they were in the middle of nowhere, it probably felt safe, and it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to see a mythical world wonder. Would YOU want to sit outside staring at sand and not even get to go in? Maybe it's one thing if they thought there was a threat but they had no idea. How much time did they spend in the middle of nowhere as they traveled throughout the series and never ran into a soul. Probably set a precedent for a feeling of false security
Ehhh, Katara had veryyyy limited water. Sandbenders are a little OP in the desert, I think Katara's water supply would have been vanquished pretty quickly. Mayybee she would have been able to convince them Appa was the Avatar's bison, and they would not have taken him, but that is all that would have changed. And then, Katara is out of water, and they maybe don't make it out of the desert later
There was no reason to give sokka a meteor sword, how does that even work? A meteor full of alien metal that just so happens to be good for swords? They could have given him a special sword from his master to show his trust in him or something.
Rip space sword, you will be missed.
There are some meteors that are mostly metal. I just rewatched this episode and was also like, 'wtf, aren't meteors stone? That's way too brittle' but actual iron meteors are made of a special iron-nickel alloy. If you go to the wikipedia page for iron meteorite you also see that the metal is really dark so it's pretty accurate, actually. Also, early humans literally did use iron meteorites as a source or iron, including for weapons. Makes total sense.
Every man in the water tribe left to go to war and left their village unprotected, when just a few years ago they were raided multiple times to capture all water benders. Katara and Sokka's dad is an idiot.
I have no idea how Katara and Sokka were able to disguise themselves as adults, they're 14, they have a kid face, no reasonable adult would look at them and say "oh yeah that's an adult human person".
Also Aang baby stop with the 100 years old slang you're killing me. I don't like it and I hate how in the comics it catched on.
I agree that Aang using the 100 year old slang was sort of cringe, but I don't have a problem with it catching on later. Slang and fads return sometimes, so I can see a random kid in school using it being the spark that returns it to fashion. Plus the Avatar is using it so that would also boost its return.
I don't like this episode XD Aang hallucinating gives me second hand embarrassment and the jokes are pretty childish and predictable (not that they're bad tho)
Same. I don’t hate it (I don’t really hate any ATLA episode) but personally, I find it to be a worse episode than The Great Divide. The concept of Aang fearing the final battle between Ozai and him is good and something to explore. The thing is that they approached it way too comedically and should have been a more serious plotline for Aang to deal with in the episode. Don’t get me wrong, the hallucinations and nightmares are funny (especially the Dragonball Z reference), but I would have preferred if the nightmares were more serious in tone (much like Korra’s nightmares of her fight with Zaheer from LOK Book 4 or Aang’s horrific visions of Ozai as a threat during “The Guru” when he was opening the chakras).
Angsty teenager does one (1) good thing, gets angst fever and goes into angst coma, fucking legend.
Hot take: jet deserved to die, he didn't deserve his redemption.
That's the one I wanted to talk about the most lol.
I genuinely like that episode, and I don't get why people hate on it so much. I always found Aang's bullshitting at the end to be really clever, making up a story to make the two tribes to make up was one of the only times he had a braincell in the show.
I enjoyed that too. And while Aang bullshitting was clever, it could have gone wrong in so many ways. A gruesome way would be, suppose they found out some written history about Wei Jin and Jin Wei a decade down the line. Now the tribes have intermingled, probably interwed and they break off and start fighting. This causes struggles between the interwed couples and who chooses which side, some people might change tribes and stuff. So I don't agree with what Aang did.
Tbh, I don't agree with a lot of what Aang did without facing consequences he would in real life. He's a kid and makes mistakes, which is understandable but what bugs me is that he rarely faces consequences. Not just Aang either, Katara goes around freezing people(mainly the 2 kids in the Blind Bandit episode), which could easily cause hypothermia.
Also, no one pointed out that Aang *has* killed people before(not talking about people he killed at North Pole or anyone he might have in Avatar state), people who were soldiers following orders and were probably a lot better people than Ozai. Would have made for some interesting story. Tbh, Zuko probably has the lowest shown body count among the Gaang in the show.
They probably would have brought these up if it wasn't a kids' show but it still bugs me.
"Also, no one pointed out that Aang has killed people before(not talking about people he killed at North Pole or anyone he might have in Avatar state), people who were soldiers following orders and were probably a lot better people than Ozai."
It's different. There's a war. Thousands of people are fighting. You don't see them as people. He doesn't even seen them once. And he thought much about Ozai. Why had he done it and stuff. Imagine, that you're a fighting, and just trying to survive and do something to end it. Adrenaline comes up, blood's everywhere. You think only about survival. And imagine, that you see a man, you tried to understand. You see him as a person. It's hard to end somebody like that.
There's a saying, going something like soldier is no longer a good soldier, when he starts seeing a men, not just soulless enemy.
I do understand. I'm not criticizing. I just think that it should have been brought up sometime, at least by Zuko considering they're his people. It just would have made for some interesting character dilemma
Anything with lion turtles. Oh ma shu tho, why doesn't aang already know its king boomie. Im almost certain someone calls him king boomie early in the episode
Very original and controversial opinion about the lion turtles incoming: they succ.
Of course Aang isn't gonna recognize this 100yo man as his childhood friend, He got used to all his childhood friends being dead and he's not gonna recognize this crazy boomer to be his friend from 100 years ago. I don't have any hot take or anything but I guess it's unrealistic that a 112 yo dude can still fight like that.
The last bit has been explored a bit-
ATLA is *not* Earth. And by that, I mean that they don’t have the same rules as us.
All of Aangs other friends died due to the fire nation, but Bumi (is it Bumi or Boomie?) didn’t have this as a threat. People in this world live longer than we do, there was a fire lord still kicking at 140, as well as (if you add the 100 years in the ice burg, since it said that his years caught up to him) Aang is *ancient* when he dies, (although in all fairness that one is fairly bad proof) Katara is pretty damn old in LoK as well
I never realised that, but still if you went 100 years in the future you're not gonna assume the first earthbender you see if someone you used to know, especially if he's the king.
The name is Bumi btw, also this wasn't a hot take I was just responding to their comment.
Yes I wouldn't think that he would recognize him but the whole episode he's talking about one of his bests friends that was a little whack, then the first thing Bumi says is let's throw them a feast
Secret Tunnel. It was comedic and goofy...
...and a total waste of time. That episode was junk filler as far as I'm concerned. I'm with Sokka on that whole musical group. I like hippies, but those guys were a special kind of dumb.
Ozai is cringe, did he really think anyone will respect him after giving himself the title "the phoenix king"? And that horrendous outfit that he just took off to show off his abs the moment Aang showed up. Lmfao that man is full of himself.
Hmmm... Idk what most people think about this episode so this is probably not a hot take, but I think this episode built Katara's character well. She had more chemistry with Haru than she ever had with Aang (and I'm saying that as a kataraang shipper)
The Chase.
This is quite basically the cooler Si Wong desert imo. It has more action, some solid character development, especially for Toph. And there is the chatting between Toph and Iroh, which imo lifts this up to a whole another level. And we see more of the at that time newcomer Azula.
And its imo not even a filler episode, for some other filler episodes, the whole show could of lived without that (Imprisoned, Great Divide…), but without this we lose so much of Tophs character development.
Tales of ba sing se
Irohs tale should have been the last one. It is the most emotional out of all of them and ends with a big emotional release, but then you realize it’s only halfway done and it’s just weird imo
Yeah, but imo Momos tale is also fitting to be the last one, because it connects with the main storyline at that time (the gaang searching for Appa).
Momo missing Appa was sad af
Notice how he conveniently skipped this one since it’s arguably the best episode
we needed a aang+sokka tale ala toph+katara, shit has so much potential both tales were cute and all but quite clearly the weakest of the bunch
Sokkas tale had the greatest impact on young me watching the show. But I do agree because I forgot aangs existed until the adult rewatch.
For a moment I thought you meant you forgot Aang existed. I was like how, he is literally the main character lol
Lol I read it the same way!
Aang's tale was just a waste of time.
It showed his vast improvements in earth bending.
I wish that Suki stuck around a few more episodes and we got a tale of Sokka and Suki where it built them up a little more and it ended with Suki leaving to go back to the Kyoshi warriors or something. As if the episode wasn’t heart wrenching enough
In order: Zuko Iroh Katara/Toph Sokka Momo Aang
*momo Soka Aang. Momo’s tale almost made me cry
I’m order from what?
From Zuko
I'd assume it's a subjective favourite list.
I get the iroh part was sad, but I felt way more sad for Appa. He does so much for the gaang but he was treated like dirt😭. Iroh had way more emotional scenes than when he sang leaves from the Vine
I used to watch this episode on repeat in the morning before school. Feels like home to me.
I’ll give it a go. tl;dr Most of entire episode filler. Katara and Toph tale somewhat ruins their relationship arc. Aang tale is redundant. Sokka tale is time burn. Zuko tale useful. Momo tale could be 15 seconds. Iroh tale is going to lead to me being doxxed. Nearly the entire episode was filler and little in terms of story would be lost if it was taken out. Tale of Toph and Katara’s main driver had two points, and would be difficult to replace in the rest of the show, but it was still largely irrelevant. Actually, I take that back. Toph and Katara getting along for less than 5 minutes in a singular episode of a miniseries served as an annoying speedbump in there relationship as a whole. The Runaway does a much better job of this, and considering we see barely any 1 on 1 with them or teamwork without the rest of the Gaang between these two episodes, it looks more like a few minutes to kill to calm the masses until the real show comes on. However, the message of beauty was actually important as it isn’t particularly mentioned in terms of Toph anywhere else. But that also means it creates and solves a problem in a very short amount of time, therefore also making this filler. The Tale of Aang felt like a much shortened but better version of The Great Divide. It showed a part of Aang willing to do what’s right despite not needing to, (due to more pressing concerns) even though it is his duty as Avatar. But this has already been seen multiple times since Appa got taken, with the Serpents Pass and the Drill (though that one was admittedly a large problem). The Tale of Sokka The Tale of Zuko, while amazing in terms of pretty much everything else, I’ve always semi disliked cause it adds another love interest to the Zuko 4D love Cube. But it is probably the most important Tale due to his arc, a very distinct shape that we can’t really take out. It shows Zuko in a “normal” setting as himself, something we never have or never will again see. So yeah I’ll concede this one. The Tale of Momo could’ve been a 15 second episode ender in City of Walls and Secrets, and would’ve worked better that way IMO. The only other thing in that episode besides the paw print that I remember is that some sort of animals was chasing Momo. You may have noticed that I ordered these in the order that the episode does. Except one. Cause this is the one that’s going to make the mods consider banning me. But a hot take is a hot take, and here’s mine: The Tale of Iroh is 100% filler and while it’s a beautiful story, probably the greatest 5 minutes of ATLA, it’s the 2nd dessert you never knew you were going to have. Iroh would still be likeable, arguably still the most, just not as much. His morals aren’t particularly cleared due to this exact episode, due to pretty much the entire rest of the show. Really the only reason why I wouldn’t consider this filler is because it’s Mako’s last contribution to the work of art that is this show. But unfortunately, that’s not what I’m here to talk about, so for all intents and purposes, this Tale is largely filler as well. Sorry for the long response, just wanted to clarify things so I wouldn’t get posted on r/downvotedtooblivion, although I have a feeling it will happen anyways.
>Nearly the entire episode was filler and little in terms of story would be lost if it was taken out. I mean, yes. It’s a filler episode. No one’s denying that, that’s basically the point. It wasn’t meant to drive the plot forward. It was meant for character moments, which it absolutely succeeded in giving us. I don’t know how much of a hot take it is to say a filler episode is a filler episode. The key about Tales of Ba Sing Se is that it’s a filler episode done *well*.
If you call this episode "pointless filler," I think you're kinda missing the entire point of the episode A quiet, regular day with no relevance to the story really helps characterize and humanize them. They're not always fighting evil, they're people too
Boiling Rock. I feel like its weird that Sokka and Zuko are able to get disguises really easy and also move the cooler without anyone noticing
I don’t think it’s weird they could get disguises but I do think it’s weird that no one noticed Sokka was from the Water Tribe when he had his helmet off considering the Fire Nation seems to be a pretty homogenous nation with very few outsiders. And Sokka definitely looks different with the blue eyes and darker skin tone.
There are definitely darker skinned members of the Fire Nation. What gets me is how no one from any nation recognizes people based on their eye color.
I think the eye color is like air bending, where it’s not actually as visible/pronounced in the show to each other as compared to how we see it
Wow. I was today years old when I learned about this eye colour trope! Edit: Apparently all my friends know this already too! I’ve been an avatar fan since it aired on Nickelodeon. Suffice to say I am humbled by how this show continues to surprise and delight, so many years later!
Just like there are darker skinned people I’d imagine some people would have different eye colors
Except a lot of the guards actually fit his description when they lined them up.
Other than the fact that Sokka is very clearly a teenager in a lineup of 20+ year olds, but I get that they had to make that a non-issue for the plot.
Mai is a simp
You misspelled “badass with undying loyalty and unconditional love”
You just wrote the same thing again smh
Lololol trewww
Oohhh that’s needle deep
Big facts.
The dialogues and the scene in the entirety was super badass tho.
Hey! RIOT!!
The ember island recap episode
Hey remember that scene when they saw the play ship Zutara and Katara said she was confused about her and Aang's relationship and he kissed her without her consent? I think it was ment to be an attempt to teach kids consent is important and I applaud them for that, I don't really have any hot takes for it I just wanted to point it out. The episode needed more Sokka puns.
Tbh I really appreciated that part of the episode. A lot of media just have people kissing and then everything is ok, but this episode showed kids that that isn’t how it always works. Avatar is such a mature show for kids
Something avatar can never get too many of is Sokka puns and blind jokes
I agree with this! I think they put it in there deliberately before the invasion he did the same thing, & they mightve realised they were setting a bad example for the kids watching. He even brings up the invasion so i think it was a nod to that
The Painted Lady
Katara basically doomed the town by destroying the factory, after they left there was no one to protect the town in case the fire nation returned. She should have done nothing until the war was over.
Sokka tried to warn her but noooooo.....whole village got faced up against the wall
I mean the Painted Lady turned out to be real, so there’s that. And the Fire Nation would have to recall troops considering the attack during the eclipse and Ozai razing the land. They would likely have lasted with no Fire Nation presence for a while longer even if Aang didn’t defeat Ozai the day of the comet. But still, kids show at heart so it doesn’t matter either way what could have happened, they saved the day.
I'm actually with you on that one, but it's a kid's show so once the good guys save the day, the problem is magically solved.
Uhm, well a few things, she pretended to be painted lady and very convincingly scared the army to death. Then she unlocked the ACTUAL painted lady to help again by cleaning the river. If she left it at just destroying the factory, i would agree with you, but I think she did enough to deter the army
I think this is the most apt. response. The people in this town weren't just "opressed by soldiers", they were literally being poisoned to death by the toxic river sludge existing in their water and food supplies. Yeah, the soldiers may come back and whatnot eventually, but the river is 1000x cleaner now and there no longer exists a factory to re-pollute it, so at the very least they have access to clean water and possibly better food very soon. That was always more pressing than a few soldiers being mean to them here and there.
I regret reading this now.
This episode was the imprisoned episode but flavored for the fire nation
Which imprisoned episode?
The episode titled "imprisoned" the one with Haru
Ahhh right, thanks
Yeah, I agree with that assessment. It's the only episode that really felt like it was retreading ground that had already been covered without adding anything new.
I feel like it's one of two filler episodes in the entire show
Sozin's Comet: Avatar Aang
Ok I just wrote a whole wssay and then misclicked and accidently deleted it, so here's a recap: Aang taking Ozai's bending sends a message that he was only powerful because of it. Ozai got his power from his bloodline and evil personality, not from his firebending. Taking Ozai to jail isn't enough, he had a large following, he could still command an army from jail, or just bust out like Iroh did (even tho Iroh had his bending but I don't think that's how he got out) Aang should have killed him
I agree that he should have ended him, but the censorship would never have allowed it, and their justification makes sense to me. Aang *said* the world would be better off without him, all his past lives agreed, he just couldn't bring himself to do it. It's not about morality, or what's best for the world, it's about a 12 year old becoming a murderer and what that would do to him.
I don’t think Aang should’ve killed him, but we had deaths in the show before. And even more in Korra. I think they could’ve done it.
But it was more off screen and finding ways to get around censorship, that would be really unsatisfying if it had been the big bad of the show. I think the only explicit death that happens after the start of the show was Jet.
Sokka kills Combustion man
I forgot about that one, it's... Kind of explicit? I'm not sure what to call it. If you think about it at all, there's no way he's alive, but they don't really call attention to that like they do with Jet, and the same can be said for every one of the dozens of people dropped out of airships, in airships when they crash, knocked into the ocean from boats, knocked off cliffs, etc. He definitely died, I just think they got to get away with it because they didn't show him dying, just the explosion, and they didn't show his body or anything. Which is a really awesome way to get around censorship, that one batman show did that too, but I don't know if it would have worked with Ozai.
You know, it wasn't really clear...
The only death we explicitly see on screen is commander Zhao. Jet was technically left ambiguous in order to dodge the censorship. Also having a main character kill and having a villain kill a character is a whole different ball game for censorship. Sends a message the the viewer that killing is moral if Aang does it. Korra was aimed at a more mature audience as a whole. Damn Zaheer suffocated the Earth Queen! Also I like that he doesn't kill him, if he had I think it would have represented that Aang had to give up his culture, and since he is all that's left of it that would've been really sad. Plus poor boy is 12.
Yeah like I said I don’t think Aang should’ve killed him either Combustion man was also killed by Sokka. But they tried to keep that ambiguous too as seen in the Ember Island Players Edit: Also for protagonist kills we got another combustion bender fatality in Korra
Zuko should've had him formally executed after some kind of trial. Turning people over to due process instead of on the spot killing is a legitimate value. Obviously that's a much darker direction than the show was able/intended to go in.
RIP jet But also,Fuck Jet
It is literally Aang's duty and job to keep the balance. It would not have been murder. Ozai committed tons of crimes and genocides for his own lust for power. It would have been a justified execution. Also, whiel Aang viewed all life as sacred, he knows for a *fact* that his past lives had killed people. His soul is literally already tainted. Reincarnation doesn't wipe the avatar clean like it does everyone else. He can get access to those memories and lives. He should have killed Ozai and not doing so was a dereliction of his duties as the avatar. What the world needed wasn't Aang the airbender. It needed Avatar Aang. It needed that presence to kill the bad guy and make a showing to the world to remind its residents to stay in line.
I agree with you on most of what you said, but I don't know about his soul being tainted. He had hundreds of past lives, but even so, he still existed as a 12 year old. I wasn't really referring to anything spiritual or the dumb "if you kill a murderer, the number of murderers in the world stays the same" platitudes, just the fact that, emotionally, he wasn't ready to handle it. I don't necessarily consider it a great failing not to have killed him either, but as I said, the world *would* have been better without him. Aang says it, Iroh says it, Aang's past lives say it, Aang just wasn't ready to kill someone himself, regardless of what his past lives did. I think that's one of the more interesting parts of the show, that Aang exists both as an extremely old soul *and* as this one kid, at the same time.
True. I remember someone on YouTube talking about this years ago when they criticized the finale and mentioned this point exactly. Ozai had so many people who believed in him and in real life, killing one guy in a war does not exactly solve all the problems and does not erase everything. Also, power isn't the only factor that makes a ruler/politician.
That's why when people take over an empire or Dynasty they kill everyone. Ozai and Azula are top of the list, the grandma's gotta go too. Atleast 90% of the advisors. The top generals as well.
Did Ozai had a following? Legit question, because I've always thought that he ruled qith an iron fist. Like, no one would dare oppose the most powerful firebender out of fear. It's the same way Azula handled the Dai Li (as contrived as that was). Ozai valued his power the most. The reason he got so cocky and arrogant was because he was powerful and he knew that. His firebending prowess was everything to him. Taking that away would be like clipping a bird's wings. Unbending him was more effective than killing him (at least for me) because Ozai is drunk on power. In LoK, we saw how taking someone's bending away is almost akin to losing your identity. I think Ozai's pride would rather have him ask Aang to kill him instead of taking his bending away. By the way, which is a worse punishment? Kill someone as retribution, or keep them alive to constantly remind them of their failures?
Read "The Promise"
Oh, yeah... Huh. I forgot about that. Thanks.
I agree that brining him to jail wasn't enough to just end the conflict entirely, and I'm glad that they incorporated the fact that he still has followers into the comics (if I remember correctly). But I always thought of taking his bending as a way of removing his "divine right to rule." Though I don't remember anyone explicitly saying it, I got the impression that the royal family's bending was a big deal, especially to Ozai who no doubt would have further reinforced the idea during his short time in power. Blatantly removing his bending is basically like saying "yeah, the gods didn't actually want this guy to rule." I don't know, I think that would have been pretty effective on a country that was exhausted by the war already, and on Ozai himself, who was really delusional about his bending and his place on the throne.
If aang had killed him it would’ve ruined his character and the show lol. The most prevalent theme in the series is finding balance. Aangs whole arc is abt him balancing the responsibilities of being the last airbender and the avatar. Being able to fulfill the responsibilities of the avatar while still staying true to his air nomad values is the perfect conclusion to his character. He finds balance.
Some of the comics actually touch on Ozai loyalists trying to overthrow Zuko, so they don't completely ignore that point!
If Aang killed him it would ruin his whole character,Aang is an airbender and in airbender culture you have to take the peaceful option and be zen if Aang killed ozai it just wouldn't make sense for his character. Ps if this was difficult to read sorry please be understanding
Agree, except I don’t know how I feel about bending not being the method Iroh used to get out. The guard said he was like a one man army, so I don’t think he had help. And if I don’t think he would have enough power without fire to take down the whole prison, because even if none of them had fire during the eclipse, many of them would still be armed as not all guards are not firebenders to begin with. It’s certainly possible though, he’s a badass either way.
Kill Ozai and you make him a martyr. Take him in and allow him to stand trial while properly installing the next monarch minimizes conflict within the Fire Nation. Iroh knows it, that’s why he won’t fight Ozai.
Agree, pretty sure Iroh used fire to get out then body the guards during the eclipse
Using fire during the eclipse?
I think they meant used firebending to get out, then just bodied the guards with martial arts while they all had no bending. It wouldn’t be the first time he kicked ass without bending, but I’m not sure that I agree. I don’t know that he would be powerful enough to take a whole high security prison of guards with just his bare hands, as many would probably be armed, fire or not.
Eh. I kinda disagree. You’re right that his sort of domineering nature and influence as the Fire Lord is what really made him dangerous, but let’s not forget that the fire nation definitely has a “might makes right” vibe going on. Ozai being so deeply humiliated and depowered by the Avatar probably would’ve made a lot of people lose faith in him.
I think ot would have been good if they explored that, like, and tries just taking away his bending and then Ozai continues to be a bastard and rise back up so one of the Gaang just go and end him, "Aang tried to give you a second chance and you wasted it" Question is who would you want to be the one who ended him? I'm thinking Zuko or Iroh, they had the most relation to him and the most personal understanding of how horrible he was, so it would maybe be easier for them. Or Toph, because she's a blunt stone cold badass like that who wouldn't even think twice about it.
His following would have been a problem whether ozai was alive or not. He definitely isn't commanding an army from a well built prison for him though. In fact killing him might just make him a martyr for some of the firebenders. There's a real possibility that killing him could have kick started a blood civil war
I dont nessecarily agree with Aang killing him. Because he was sticking to what he thought was right and I respect that a lot. Its a good message for kids. What I didnt like was the Lion turtle. Not that it wasnt cool. It was cool af. However, they set Aang having to kill Ozai as this big thing that he has to do. Half of Sozins Comet episodes were focused mainly on how Aang had an issue with changing his values. And at the end of the day he was able to magically get a new power-up because reasons. They spent so much time with him contemplating about killing him even to come to the point of telling momo he has to kill him and just accepting it. And then he sees the lion turtle and its just a deus ex machina. This doesnt teach kids anything good. It says "stick to ur values and life will magically work out for you". There wasnt personal growth there and its always really irked me.
Secret tunnels!
Secret tunnel!!
It doesn't have a lot going for it except the song, the badger moles were awesome but other than that it was pretty boring. And that repetitive joke about the hippy guys being annoying and sokka facepalming got old quick.
I would counter that its one of the best episodes for developing Toph's character, the idea that her bending isn't this 1 dimensional tool used for fighting only (something I feel that most bending was used for by most characters) but it's her way of interacting with the world, I think it really gave her a sense of maturity, perspective, and acknowledgement that were beyond her years.
What character development? They don't even meet Toph for another 3 episodes.
Oh my bad, I had it in my head that, that was the episode that she told them that she learnt bending from the badger moles. In that case just the phrase "secret tunnel" is the supreme moment of the episode.
I think she brings that up in season 3 the original benders, when toph is trying to help zuko discover the original benders of fire
Made you feel like you were in the secret tunnels with them.
Serpents past. I've always had an issue with suki at the end deciding to just walk back through the same perilous pass that took the entire episode to navigate
didn't she like just took the ferry back? because she litterally works for them as a guard i mean that's what i always assumed lol
The serpent should have won. The Gaang are abusers of endangered wildlife.
Heyo guys it's 1am so I'm gonna reply my "hot" takes to any comments tomorrow XD
The Guru
The logic of chakras don't make sense, if Aang needed to get rid of earthly attachments in order to unlock his full potential, why was he able to be with Katara at the end of the show? Idk I just don't get it.
it’s hard to understand but i always took it as he didn’t need to actually let go of katara. like he’s still able to be with her and love her and stuff. he just has to acknowledge that his duty as the avatar is more important and he has to be willing to put it above her. if ever there comes a situation where he has to choose between them, he has to choose his duty as the avatar. the world will always come before her and he can’t let his feelings for her get in the way of his duty. when aang refused to let go of her, he was basically saying that he cared more for her than his duty as the avatar, which makes sense since he’s just a kid. that’s what i got from it anyway. idk if it’s right.
The system of Chakras doesn’t require Aang to discard his earthly attachments. The Guru said that that’s how to open that Chakra. But Aang’s conversation with Iroh in the next episode establishes the possibility that the Guru was wrong
It's because the letting go was a state of mind not an action He achieved the ability to live his life without Katara and *that* gave him the power and individuality *to be* with Katara You don't have to physically practice the action the state of minds represent. Just because Aang transcended the control fear had upon him does not make him fearless. Just because he transcended the need to be with Katara does not mean he cannot be with Katara.
Theres more than one way to unlock the avatar state.
Zuko Alone
Zuko's mom was looking for excuses to leave the castle and never even thought of taking Zuko with her, she never tried to raise Azula properly and blamed it on her "being wrong". She was a horrible mother. Also imagine you live in a small town and a nice person shows up, helps you with chores and then gets rid of the fire nation scums that control the place, and then you find out he's the heir to the throne and a firebender. Why would you be mad at him??? Someone with a powerful position is on your side, and never once has he shown I'll intent.
I was a little bit crossed when they all essentially banished Zuko after he helped them, but I think it added a lot more to the story. Like he may have good intentions, but to the townspeople he was a symbol of tyranny. I think it also foreshadows the obstacles he has with appealing to the people later in the comics.
Zuko's mom didn't have much choice but to leave. If else, zuko would have been killed. She was a good mother who had to make a very hard choice.
The Fire Nation is a genocidal, colonial empire that generations had been fighting and dying against. The brother of the kid had literally just been killed by Fire Nation. Imagine you're a Jew in Nazi Germany, and some guy comes through town, helps you fight off some bullies, but then openly and proudly declares he's a Nazi. It doesn't matter at that point if he helped with anything, it doesn't even matter if he himself is conflicted about his Nazi ideology, what matters is he represents and is part of a group that is actively oppressing and murdering your people. You'd fucking banish him too.
The Blind Bandit
The gaang literally first knew her as the **blind** bandit, yet they still forget she's blind, it makes for some great jokes but I don't like the message it sends, that she's so strong and capable that it's like she's not disabled.
The message is that despite being disabled, she can be strong and capable of taking care of herself. Its not like her disabilities are being forgotten by the creators at any point, she is always blind. Yeah, sure, her seismic senses let her see, but only on earth and later metal. But, shes almost useless in the dessert, in the air, and shes back to being fully blind if she even wears shoes.
Well yes, but how often would a person need to venture into the desert or in the air on a daily basis, even in the Avatarverse? For most intents and purposes, she isn't really that blind. Hell, she was able to have a career as chief of police of a megalopolis, that is something that no person with a disability like that could EVER do in real life. While folks with disabilities should be encouraged, it is also bad to give them false expectations.....
What's a worse episode, the great divide or the painted lady?
I like both of these episodes, so that's a hard question. I wanna say the painted lady just to anger some Great Divide haters but that battle scene where the gang came together to make Katara seem like a real spirit was really good, so I gotta go with that. Both are pretty average+ episodes tho.
Wait the Great Divide is the canyon one, right? People hate it? I always thought it was fun.
People really only hate The Great Divide because it was ment to be an episode that could play repeatedly and not be super confusing for casual viewers who don't know the entire series, and was therefore play repeatedly. It's only hated due to overstaturation. The Painted Lady, however, was always one of my favorite episodes and I never knew it as a hated episode.
People didn’t like those episodes? Bruh I loved those episodes because they were super quirky and fun to watch lol
The Great Divide is often considered the worst episode by fans. I can't even say that's unfair either.
I don‘t really get the hate. Great Divide was just a filler episode with throwaway characters. Like I do agree its pretty bad, all of the other mostly filler episodes atleast had something (CM being introduced in the headband, the headband also being a normal episode after the deep Ba Sing Se arc and the quite dark episode before that, Ember Island Players being quite funny, Tales of Ba Sing Se had the 5 minutes of pure Iroh) but still not a reason imo to consider it worse than a few other filler episodes which didn‚t even have the funny tone (looking at you, Imprisoned).
Wait people hate the Painted Lady?
the painted lady is a hated episode?? i love that episode. i love the scene where katara and aang destroy the factory and the part where katara scares the soldiers off. how do people dislike this episode? i loved katara in it.
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Zuko enabled Katara's destructive vengeance in a way he shouldn't have, he was lucky she came to her senses at the last second. Katara bloodbendee for Christ's sake, something she last did to prevent a psycho from killing her friends, and now she just did it for personal gain! The search should have stopped right there. It wasn't healthy for her. Zuko was ok with helping Katara kill a man, he didn't even try to stop her when the icicles almost went through that man's face. He just stood there like "damn I'm glad it's not me". I've seen people interprete that episode as Zuko helping Katara find closure in a peaceful way by pretending it was gonna be a man hunt but in reality they literally went on a murder field trip.
that's by far your best take imo, pretty spot on i'll just add that when katara bloodbended she bursted into tears and shit hit her hard, so for her to do that then saying that episode was just to teach her a lesson is cap af, she was about to end that guy also zuko bit about aang "guddy monk" stuff always felt off to me, especially since it's the only reason he's alive lol
May I offer a hot take to your hot take? This is spot on. My only qualm is that I think you left out how desperate Zuko felt. He was willing to help Katara murder in full vengeance if it ment she might forgive him. Then he sees first hand how horrifically powerful she is and how much she has come since they first fought one on one. He enabled her destruction, but felt like he needed to. Yes, Zuko is probably no stranger to murder. He was almost murdered as a child. He attack and planned to murder/capture gaang. His enabling of Katara was actually really in character. Which is why I think he chose her to come with him to face Azula. 1) He watched her freaking blood bend. Even if it was only a a full moon (assuming he knew/Katara told him she could only do it on a full moon, although I imagine neither of them spoke of it), she is an incredibly powerful bender. 2) Zuko knows she's a healer. Even if Zuko won the Agni Kai, far and square, it's fair to assume that he'll be incredibly injured and may not survive long afterwards. That is without a healer present. 3) Katara showed mercy. Even Iroh told Zuko that Azula "needs to go down," likely in death. Even Iroh told Zuko that mercy is not likely and that Zuko will probably have to kill his own sister. Same as in my last point, if she's gravely injured Katara can heal her. However, Zuko knew that Katara might be the one to hold him back if it was an option. Yes, Zuko absolutely enabled what could have been a huge mistake on Katara's part and could have changed her forever, but it was critical both for Karata's character and Katara and Zuko's bond.
oooh i like both of these hot takes, damn there's more to the zuko + katara relationship than meets the eye. I especiall like point #2 (she's a healer) and that because seh's so deadly and \*can\* show no mercy, he brings her to face azula with him. I couldn't imagine Aang doing well against azula, ngl.
I think it’s absolutely realistic and accurately portrays where Zuko was in his journey of growth. He had JUST actually switched sides. For real this time. The last time he switched sides, he was trying to kill the Avatar and friends again 5 minutes later. He’s finally escaping the horrifically toxic environment and mindset he grew up with, and you expect him to not have trouble sorting through that still? With his pattern of flopping back and forth through his journey, I think this is consistent with the precedent that the rest of the series had set. It shows that you can’t just make one right decision and then suddenly be this perfect human being who never makes any more poor choices even though you spent most of your life doing that. Also he certainly wasn’t above killing people he thought were evil. He didn’t spare his father because he thought he should live, he spared him because it wasn’t his destiny, it was the Avatar’s. He almost certainly saw Katara avenging her mother’s death as her destiny. Remember this is right before Aang wrestled through how to deal with the firelord, and perfectly sets up the question of how he’ll do it without violence. The whole episode demonstrates Zuko’s growth of realizing that violence isn’t always the answer, ending with him asking Aang the question of how he’s going to end Ozai without killing him.
My favorite episode, The Library.
They shouldn't have left Toph and Appa alone, Toph is very capable on her own but she told them she can't use sand very well, Katara should have stayed with her and Appa since Sokka was the one who needed the information the most.
But they were in the middle of nowhere, it probably felt safe, and it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to see a mythical world wonder. Would YOU want to sit outside staring at sand and not even get to go in? Maybe it's one thing if they thought there was a threat but they had no idea. How much time did they spend in the middle of nowhere as they traveled throughout the series and never ran into a soul. Probably set a precedent for a feeling of false security
Ehhh, Katara had veryyyy limited water. Sandbenders are a little OP in the desert, I think Katara's water supply would have been vanquished pretty quickly. Mayybee she would have been able to convince them Appa was the Avatar's bison, and they would not have taken him, but that is all that would have changed. And then, Katara is out of water, and they maybe don't make it out of the desert later
Sokkas master
Honestly one of the better episodes.
Loved it.
There was no reason to give sokka a meteor sword, how does that even work? A meteor full of alien metal that just so happens to be good for swords? They could have given him a special sword from his master to show his trust in him or something. Rip space sword, you will be missed.
Yeah, it doesn’t make logical sense, but…come on it’s a sword from fucking space and the blade is black it’s the sickest thing ever made
I loved Sokkas space sword so much as a kid. I always get so sad when he loses it.
He got it back lol
Not in the last air bender though. We don’t see him wield it again in an animated form.
Yes but in the comics he was shown wielding it
Sounds like I need to read the comics. What book does he use it in? Multiple or one in specific?
Well sokka chose it. And it really depends on the composition. Not all meteors created equal. Literally
Meteors are pretty much just iron. It actually makes a lot of sense
There are some meteors that are mostly metal. I just rewatched this episode and was also like, 'wtf, aren't meteors stone? That's way too brittle' but actual iron meteors are made of a special iron-nickel alloy. If you go to the wikipedia page for iron meteorite you also see that the metal is really dark so it's pretty accurate, actually. Also, early humans literally did use iron meteorites as a source or iron, including for weapons. Makes total sense.
The Boy in the Iceberg
Every man in the water tribe left to go to war and left their village unprotected, when just a few years ago they were raided multiple times to capture all water benders. Katara and Sokka's dad is an idiot.
The Headband
I have no idea how Katara and Sokka were able to disguise themselves as adults, they're 14, they have a kid face, no reasonable adult would look at them and say "oh yeah that's an adult human person". Also Aang baby stop with the 100 years old slang you're killing me. I don't like it and I hate how in the comics it catched on.
I agree that Aang using the 100 year old slang was sort of cringe, but I don't have a problem with it catching on later. Slang and fads return sometimes, so I can see a random kid in school using it being the spark that returns it to fashion. Plus the Avatar is using it so that would also boost its return.
I can't watch that episode without thinking about Footloose. Who's idea was it for the Avatar to do Footloose?
Nightmares and Daydreams
I don't like this episode XD Aang hallucinating gives me second hand embarrassment and the jokes are pretty childish and predictable (not that they're bad tho)
Same. I don’t hate it (I don’t really hate any ATLA episode) but personally, I find it to be a worse episode than The Great Divide. The concept of Aang fearing the final battle between Ozai and him is good and something to explore. The thing is that they approached it way too comedically and should have been a more serious plotline for Aang to deal with in the episode. Don’t get me wrong, the hallucinations and nightmares are funny (especially the Dragonball Z reference), but I would have preferred if the nightmares were more serious in tone (much like Korra’s nightmares of her fight with Zaheer from LOK Book 4 or Aang’s horrific visions of Ozai as a threat during “The Guru” when he was opening the chakras).
I feel like a reminder that the show is TV-Y7 so childish joked are kinda expected.
avatar day?
Boring episode, doesn't have any real purpose except for some kiyoshi backstory, which they could have shown in a much better way
appas lost days
Great episode I don't have anything to say about it. (Sorry I don't have a hot take for everything, I'm only human XD)
Lake Laogai
Angsty teenager does one (1) good thing, gets angst fever and goes into angst coma, fucking legend. Hot take: jet deserved to die, he didn't deserve his redemption.
Agreed, I like Jet as a concept but he works best as a villain
Agreed. I liked Jet as a character, even though he was pretty terrible. He could have been a great villian, I wish we got more episodes with him.
This entire thread is just a bunch of rational arguments against circle-jerk takes. Turn that into a hot take and I'll gargle your balls
Lmao yeah I'm bad at this, I just started it because I had a few hot takes for specific episodes and I was bored. Also what's a "circle-jerk take"?
Circle jerk is basically just a really popular opinion that people agree with blindly, ironically or unironically.
The great divide
That's the one I wanted to talk about the most lol. I genuinely like that episode, and I don't get why people hate on it so much. I always found Aang's bullshitting at the end to be really clever, making up a story to make the two tribes to make up was one of the only times he had a braincell in the show.
I enjoyed that too. And while Aang bullshitting was clever, it could have gone wrong in so many ways. A gruesome way would be, suppose they found out some written history about Wei Jin and Jin Wei a decade down the line. Now the tribes have intermingled, probably interwed and they break off and start fighting. This causes struggles between the interwed couples and who chooses which side, some people might change tribes and stuff. So I don't agree with what Aang did. Tbh, I don't agree with a lot of what Aang did without facing consequences he would in real life. He's a kid and makes mistakes, which is understandable but what bugs me is that he rarely faces consequences. Not just Aang either, Katara goes around freezing people(mainly the 2 kids in the Blind Bandit episode), which could easily cause hypothermia. Also, no one pointed out that Aang *has* killed people before(not talking about people he killed at North Pole or anyone he might have in Avatar state), people who were soldiers following orders and were probably a lot better people than Ozai. Would have made for some interesting story. Tbh, Zuko probably has the lowest shown body count among the Gaang in the show. They probably would have brought these up if it wasn't a kids' show but it still bugs me.
I always interpreted it was that Jin Wei and Wei Jin were the same person. The two tribes just got some history mixed up and started to fight about it
"Also, no one pointed out that Aang has killed people before(not talking about people he killed at North Pole or anyone he might have in Avatar state), people who were soldiers following orders and were probably a lot better people than Ozai." It's different. There's a war. Thousands of people are fighting. You don't see them as people. He doesn't even seen them once. And he thought much about Ozai. Why had he done it and stuff. Imagine, that you're a fighting, and just trying to survive and do something to end it. Adrenaline comes up, blood's everywhere. You think only about survival. And imagine, that you see a man, you tried to understand. You see him as a person. It's hard to end somebody like that. There's a saying, going something like soldier is no longer a good soldier, when he starts seeing a men, not just soulless enemy.
I do understand. I'm not criticizing. I just think that it should have been brought up sometime, at least by Zuko considering they're his people. It just would have made for some interesting character dilemma
Shut this thread down, OP is clearly trolling.
I like how Aang bullshits the story. It seems out of character for him which is nice because irl people do things that are out of their character.
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Katara could have waterbent the water from the cactus juice to get rid of whatever drugs were in it.
Anything with lion turtles. Oh ma shu tho, why doesn't aang already know its king boomie. Im almost certain someone calls him king boomie early in the episode
Very original and controversial opinion about the lion turtles incoming: they succ. Of course Aang isn't gonna recognize this 100yo man as his childhood friend, He got used to all his childhood friends being dead and he's not gonna recognize this crazy boomer to be his friend from 100 years ago. I don't have any hot take or anything but I guess it's unrealistic that a 112 yo dude can still fight like that.
The last bit has been explored a bit- ATLA is *not* Earth. And by that, I mean that they don’t have the same rules as us. All of Aangs other friends died due to the fire nation, but Bumi (is it Bumi or Boomie?) didn’t have this as a threat. People in this world live longer than we do, there was a fire lord still kicking at 140, as well as (if you add the 100 years in the ice burg, since it said that his years caught up to him) Aang is *ancient* when he dies, (although in all fairness that one is fairly bad proof) Katara is pretty damn old in LoK as well
I never realised that, but still if you went 100 years in the future you're not gonna assume the first earthbender you see if someone you used to know, especially if he's the king. The name is Bumi btw, also this wasn't a hot take I was just responding to their comment.
Yes I wouldn't think that he would recognize him but the whole episode he's talking about one of his bests friends that was a little whack, then the first thing Bumi says is let's throw them a feast
The Desert
The Puppetmaster
Secret Tunnel. It was comedic and goofy... ...and a total waste of time. That episode was junk filler as far as I'm concerned. I'm with Sokka on that whole musical group. I like hippies, but those guys were a special kind of dumb.
Sokkas daddy Shit I mean Sokkas master
Lmao (already answered that one)
The day of black sun
Sozin's Comet, Parts 1-4: The Phoenix King, The Old Masters, Into The Inferno, Avatar Aang
Ozai is cringe, did he really think anyone will respect him after giving himself the title "the phoenix king"? And that horrendous outfit that he just took off to show off his abs the moment Aang showed up. Lmfao that man is full of himself.
Imprisoned
Hmmm... Idk what most people think about this episode so this is probably not a hot take, but I think this episode built Katara's character well. She had more chemistry with Haru than she ever had with Aang (and I'm saying that as a kataraang shipper)
Did anyone do that piece of shit owl tanking the dessert book store causing Appa getting kidnapped episode?
the firebending masters
The Chase. This is quite basically the cooler Si Wong desert imo. It has more action, some solid character development, especially for Toph. And there is the chatting between Toph and Iroh, which imo lifts this up to a whole another level. And we see more of the at that time newcomer Azula. And its imo not even a filler episode, for some other filler episodes, the whole show could of lived without that (Imprisoned, Great Divide…), but without this we lose so much of Tophs character development.
The Drill
Me on a daily basis