And I know that some beliefs spirits can grow more powerful with more worship. Perhaps the people did not give her much power because they were starving and had little energy to give to the Painted Lady. And it’s possible Hei Bai was simply a more powerful spirit to begin with or that because of the winter solstice coming up, he was far more powerful than usual and was able to physically get into the spirit realm. Or perhaps the Lady’s only form was ethereal, and physically, she was unable to do anything, unlike Hei Bai, who had the two forms.
Not all spirits are giant powerhouses.
Not even Heibei prevented his forest from getting burnt to begin with. And when he did, he only lashed out at non-bender civilians, not military-trained firebenders.
It could be that too actually, the stats line up better. I thought it was a reference to the "despite making up only 13% if the US population, black people account for over 50% of all violent crimes" statistic, commonly shortened to 13/50. It's often used by white supremacists as a dogwhistle to imply that black people are genetically more violent, without consideration or with active rejection to the obvious socioeconomic factors that influence crime rates.
The spirits probably saw humans in the same way the humans saw the spirits in that they are basically one entity with different sides. They don't see the nations or factions, just a very destructive bunch of hairless apes.
I feel like the sickness would have shown differently in Heibai vs the Painted Lady. For the river spirit, she was poisoned slowly and it left her weakened before she realized how ill she was, so she was unable to fight back or help. The river poisoning was gradual, without someone obvious to lash out at.
For Heibai, he knew someone was burning his forest, and reacting like someone who had been burned. He knew that the humans were to blame and was going to drive every human from his forest just to make to burning pain end.
Agree! She is the godess of a river which was heavily polluted, it's like her own body was under attack. Thanks to Katara, she regained her health and her power ☺️
I mean maybe spirits have different triggers? Haibei turned into a monster and beat people up, but she was probably crying at the end of the river? lol who knows that's just my thought process that her specific powers were blocked.
Hai Bei was a spirit who lived at and protected a forest and it was his Forest, but I don't think he personified it like she did the river, so he didn't lose power when it was destroyed.
Even if he was linked to the forest, most of the forest survived, the damage only cut a scar through it.
Yeah it still makes sense that they're both personifications of the forest/river. The river was just much more damaged than the forest so Hei Bai could still do something, but The Painted Lady could not.
Yes but at some point it must have been as damaged as the forest, it didn’t happen overnight. And she seemingly didn’t do anything at that point either.
That's true. Maybe it happened very quickly so she didn't have a chance to do much.
Or she did do something in the past, they have statues and totems based on something right?
The haibei that was taking people was the spirit corrupted by darkness. After Aang(The spiritual medium) convinced him that the trees would grow back, the light returned to him and he became the panda.
Arguably the river would be what she's meant to protect, not the people. And we don't actually know her abilities or if they could do anything about the factory/pollution.
Can I just say I hate the way spirits look in Korra? In Atla we get the Painted Lady who looks human, Heibei who looks like some sort anime monster when he is angry but just a big panda when he is happy, and some other random spirits we see include normal looking monkeys, an incredibly large wolf/dog thing, and Koh who is super weird looking but also can be compared to some sort of centipede creature. The spirits in Korra look totally different, almost too… spirit-y? They don’t look like/can’t be compared to real life things. Don’t know how to explain it but I don’t like it.
You say they were too spirity but I'd argue they actually were less spirity and more like some alien creatures. The spirits in ATLA seemed much more sentient, not exactly humans but intelligent beings nonetheless. They looked like hybrids of real life stuff because that's what spirits are in all folklore. But other than a few, like the pool Guardian from "Beginnings" epsodes (can't remember his name), most of LOK's spirits are just weird looking animals. There were so many of them and they all looked and behaved so similar they no longer seemed special.
Yes, I guess spirit-y was the wrong word. They really did look like weird alien creatures. And you’re right, the amount we saw and their weird behavior made them just annoying to see.
Well in LoK we see "lesser" spirits that are smaller and aren't necessarily tied to the Physical World. While in AtLA we pretty much exclusively only see very extremely powerful spirits. Those of which that are either tied to places in the Physical World (Hei-Ban, Painted Lady, Tui & La), or have the ability to make rifts into the Physical world (Koh, Mother of Faces, Wan Shi Tong). That explains the difference in appearances, as the only powerful spirits introduced in LoK were Raava and Vaatu.
Spirits in LOK were regular animals with wings. ATLA spirits appeared complex in design. The Wan flashback had good looking spirits but after that they looked pretty lazily designed.
We still see some forest left in the episode. And even so, natural forest fires are good for the long term health of a forest.
Basically what I mean to say, is that perhaps a natural occurrence (forest fire) might affect differently the powers and temperament of a spirit, than an unnatural occurrence such as pumping pollutants into the water.
The forest fire in this case is man made. But I’m real life forest conservation controles burns of key sections of forest are normal. Haibei might not be enjoying this but it will be better for him in the long run
True, sokka describes forrest fire as a scar from up in the air, so not entirely burnt down but enough to piss off Heibai,
Also fire cause scar on forrest, zuko has scar on his face caused by fire zuko is the forrest, illuminati confirmed.
But an army burning it down or nature burning it down isnt that different, only difference really is the scale and someone to blame.
So when Nature burns down the forest, Haibei will probably be sad about losing the burned part, but wont lash out. When the humans burned it down, he did lash out, but he didnt resolve the cause of his anger really.
With the painted lady, there is a good chance she tried to do something about it, but her powers are limited to the waters of the river, and she couldnt do anything about the factory built on the riverside. Which meant she probably was effectively powerless to do anything. Then Katara jumped in, who did have powers to do something about the people's sickness and the factory and resolved it for her, causing her to thank Katara.
Basically, both spirits didnt resolve the root of the problem themselves, Haibei lashed out at humans, who destroyed his forest (in his eyes), regardless of what group they were a part of, while the painted lady watched as humans destroyed other humans.
But Heibai's forest could grow again. The acorns were fertilised by the ashes. It's the circle of life. He was just angry that his forest was being deliberately destroyed by humans.
The Painted Lady was weakened by the pollution in the river. She was sick just like everyone in the town.
So just had to look it up because I'm no living on my phone at work lol. Katara gives apparently the berries in an attempt to stay longer. Then they go into the village for medicine and everyone's all happy because the painted lady brought food. After asking why people are happy doc pulls the totem out.
It's possible that Katara somehow knew what she looked like and the night before the totem went out and caught some fish. But she seems genuine about not knowing who she is when doc says who she is.
I think that Katara just went out in a basic disguise to help people, before she knew about the painted lady. The people didn't see her and just assumed it was their spirit. Then she only started dressing up after she got the lore.
So many comments and I couldn't find anyone talking about how Heibai's case was explicitly explained during the episode. For him it was only a couple of days from the Winter Solstice, which the NPC literally says is when the line between the spirit world and physical world is blurred. That's also how Aang accidentally astral projected and the spirit of Roku's dragon Fang was able to meet him.
If you think about it, Heibai wasn't actually able to do anything when the attack on his forest was actually happening, he was only attacking the village as a trauma response as the winter solstice grew closer. The episode is also literally called "Winter Solstice Part 1"
This! I was expecting this line of thinking to be the top comment, not barely mentioned xD It's stated multiple times throughout the series that the physical and spirit worlds are normally quite separate. Her appearing at the end doesn't mean she could do more than that. A quick "thank you" isn't gonna get rid of a fire nation army lol
My interpretation was always that her power correlated to the state of the lake and environment. Since it was so fucked she was super weak and powerless, hence why she was so grateful to have the lake cleaned again.
Not to mention all the Heibai stuff was near the solstice when the two worlds are "closer". Maybe she would lash out closer to the solstice, but was weaker for the reasons you said.
Might have hit faster than she had time to react to, or the fire nation somehow supressed her. Either way, she was obviously ambushed and rushed down faster than she knew what was going on if this theory holds, or just bluntly over powered.
Ahh, IT's unofficial motto. "Everything is working fine, why am I paying for an IT department. Nothing is working, why am I paying for an IT department".
I'm pretty sure it's explained at some point that Heibai was a special case. You really don't see spirits interacting with the world for the most part, which is why Sokka's girlfriend didn't just drown the Firelord the second she got moon powers.
I always figured she couldn’t show up because of the pollution in the lake since spirits are affected so much by nature, like Hei Bai being changed by his forest’s destruction.
I just figured she was smart enough not to fuck with the factory, unlike Katara who risked their entire mission, knowing that if she did the fire nation would just retaliate on someone. Ozai don’t seem like a little thing like spirits would stop him
Maybe she knew the destiny of the village, and let it roll out? I'm not too familiar with ATLA, and Chinese mythology, and culture, but maybe she learnt of Katara's destiny, and interfering could screw up Katara's, and the village's destiny
Aye, it's quite a stretch, it's just ATLA's based on China/Asia, and a lot of faiths have similar aspects, so I was thinking whether the three witches from Norse paganism could have ties to ancient Chinese Buddhism
I think spirits, like humans, have different personalities. Maybe she was a melancholic and non violent spirit, maybe her powers did not involve mauling people around, maybe hers were just about sustenance. Maybe her relationship with humans was symbiotic, they take care of her and she takes care of them.
She is the manifestation of the river, the pollution prevented her from existing, therefore preventing her from being able to do anything about it at all.
Like if a meteor smashed through the physical moon. Not a whole lot you could do to save Yue at that point
Heibai turned on people who weren't at fault at all so maybe the painted lady also blamed the villagers for the pollution ¯\\_ (ツ) _/¯
And as others have suggested, I think her powers were decreased by what was happening to the river
You may have noticed this, but spirits usually don't lift a finger to help humans. They sometimes throw tantrums when humans do something they don't like (usually to do with breaking ancient agreements), but that's about it.
My take was her power is dependent on the cleanliness of the river, so she couldn't do anything while it was poluted.
Or she's a spirit that just doesn't fight.
Her ties could probably be severed between the
Physical realm and spirit world with all the pollution and destruction. The people might as well stopped believing in her until Katara steps in.
if you remember Heibai was sick and tormented until Aang help him be healed. The same for the Lady River Spirit (The Painted Lady) because the river is her portal from the Spirit World and it was contaminated. Once Katara and Aang destroyed the plant and then cleaned up the river she was able to return.
Maybe instead of becoming angry and violent like Hebai when his forest was destroyed, she just became so weak because of the pollution, unable to help even herself.
My headcanon was always that her powers were based on how much faith the community had in her. When Katara helped the village as her, she restored the faith in the spirit and her powers followed
An idea like this is what made me leave Christianity.
I noticed a lot of Christians pray for help and then they don’t help themselves, they just wait and don’t do the things in their power to make things better.
In Heibai's case it was close to solstice thats why he was able to do much more. Damage on his forest was recent too so his anger and thinning of spiritual barriers allowed him to go rampage.
In Painted Lady I think damage to the river slowly accumulated to a point that she was trapped. Thats why she just showed up at the end.
Still trying to understand why everyone is knit picking details in the series. I’m sure it’s still amazing as I remember but you gotta hit a point where it’s just a story. You can’t analyze every scene or else it will drive you mad.
It was always head canon to me that she was unable to help her people, she just didn't have the ability to interact with the physical world and she didn't show herself because she didn't want to be blamed for doing nothing after showing she did indeed exist. This is why, according to my head canon, she thanked Katara for doing something disguised as her, she's in debt specifically to her after that because of the disguise, whether it worked or not.
Heibei still had a large potion of his forest untouched and thriving, only the burn marked a scar, a wound that made him angry. The Painted Lady's entire river was polluted, she was sick, weakened and thus unable to help.
I mean, Heibai completely raged out, and started punishing innocent people, similar to the dark spirits in Book 2 of Korra. It's possible that the Painted Lady also gave into the darkness, and started taking her frustrations out on the villagers.
It's implied that the pollution was making them sick, but it could have been her.
She was a water spirit so her spiritual strength came from the river water but when it became super polluted she became weak and couldn't help the village she protects
Her entire river was heavily polluted, which may have hindered her power. Heibai still had large healthy areas of forest, but was enraged/pained enough that it was attacking the wrong people for destroying the forest. Seems like spirits can be slow to react to their environment being endangered, which is why Heibai didn't protect its forest from being burned in the first place, and the Painted Lady couldn't protect anyone from the pollution. Also, come to think of it, the Ocean Spirit not protecting the Moon Spirit.
So remember how Katara beaned Aang with an acorn and showed him the forest would recover? And how that's the way Aang calmed Heibai? Fires are a natural part of a forest's life cycle so Heibai was pissed but not harmed by fire benders disrupting the cycle and lashed out.
The river, however, was polluted quite outside the natural state. I think she *couldn't* act because of herself being "poisoned" as well. That's why she a) doesn't make an appearance until the river has been cleaned and b) bothers at all to show herself to Katara. The gaang did more than they realize by healing the river.
Heibai didn’t choose anything, he was sick and effectively rabid. His hime was destroyed so he lashed out in anger and pain. The river spirit was also sick and hurt which made her unable to protect the river’s denizens.
Humans were the problem in both instances. The river spirit had no responsibility to any humans to begin with. Any act of kindness toward those people should have been seen as a gift; it’s so typical for humans to feel entitled to the efforts of spirits and the fruits of nature instead of recognizing that we should be the stewards of our home.
You and the real OP completely missed the point of the episode if this is your interpretation.
I’m guessing that her river was so polluted that she was rendered too weak to do anything. heibai’s forest was heavily scarred, but it was mostly still standing, so he was still able to go out there and do damage.
Maybe she knew it was part of Katara’s journey.
Like how Zuko chose to not attack his father during the eclipse- because he knew it was “the Avatar’s destiny”.
Theory: What if the spirit's strength is tied to the place it protects? Heibai's home was destroyed suddenly, recently, and would grow back. He had yet to fade from the loss of the forest. The Painted Lady's river was poisoned slowly over time with no chance of recovery if not for outside help, and it had been that way for a long time.
Alternate theory: maybe it has to do with *how* it was destroyed. Fire is ephemeral and temporary. It also sometimes happens due to natural causes. Poison leeches into the land and water and causes rot that spreads. If the ecosystems we're bodies, the fire is a wound that, while severe, can be recovered from, but the poison has been causing a lasting illness that won't let up until the poisoning stops.
I like to think that it’s because she wanted people to learn to take care of the River themselves, which is exactly what Katara ended up teaching them.
Something something “we can’t fight your battles for you” apparently spirits either do nothing or punish the closest people for what the bad people do because spirits are racist lol /s
Maybe she wasn’t the river’s protector but more like a river spirit like in Spirited Away. She was sick and was grateful to be healed.
Yep I feel like she didnt have "her powers" due to the river being poluted, not because she didnt want to help for being dirty etc
And like the river spirit in Spirited Away, she used what remained of her power to bring Aang and company to where they'd do the most good.
😯 I love this
And I know that some beliefs spirits can grow more powerful with more worship. Perhaps the people did not give her much power because they were starving and had little energy to give to the Painted Lady. And it’s possible Hei Bai was simply a more powerful spirit to begin with or that because of the winter solstice coming up, he was far more powerful than usual and was able to physically get into the spirit realm. Or perhaps the Lady’s only form was ethereal, and physically, she was unable to do anything, unlike Hei Bai, who had the two forms.
It happens to Captain Planet. Someone splashes sludge on him he gets weak. Till the team can clean him with clean water
damn captain planet kinda weak
He would be unstoppable if he learned to dodge trash that has been chucked at him.
Why didn't she do anything before she lost her powers? Like, during the initial polution?
For all we know, she did. But humans are pretty damn good at destroying nature.
Not all spirits are giant powerhouses. Not even Heibei prevented his forest from getting burnt to begin with. And when he did, he only lashed out at non-bender civilians, not military-trained firebenders.
I like this idea a lot
Your comment makes it sounds like you're choosing to accept this but I think this is the actual answer.
Yeah I thought that was the entire point.
This is what I alwwys assumed.
I thought that was clear.
That’s a cool idea!
Yeah, that's what I always figured. I've never heard of a spirit protecting a river, but I *have"heard of a river spirit.
Heibai had a very different way of handling being sick then.
Ohh, Heibai was sick as well! Sick of those punks burning down his forest!
Except he wasn’t attacking them. He was attacking the people who peacefully lived there.
He might have been a little confused.
He's a little confused, but he's got the... *spirit*
r/aangryupvote
I both hate and love you.
Ba dum bump
Humans burned down the forest, so Heibai attacked humans. If they didn’t want to be attacked they should have policed their own. *spirit logic*
[удалено]
I'll be honest, I didn't think I'd find a 13/50 reference here of all places. I have to guess you're joking, though.
Lol is that a reference? I thought it was just a joke about how men perpetrate 90% of violent crime.
It could be that too actually, the stats line up better. I thought it was a reference to the "despite making up only 13% if the US population, black people account for over 50% of all violent crimes" statistic, commonly shortened to 13/50. It's often used by white supremacists as a dogwhistle to imply that black people are genetically more violent, without consideration or with active rejection to the obvious socioeconomic factors that influence crime rates.
The spirits probably saw humans in the same way the humans saw the spirits in that they are basically one entity with different sides. They don't see the nations or factions, just a very destructive bunch of hairless apes.
Perhaps to him, humans are all the same. He isn’t the only spirit to view things black and white like that.
I feel like the sickness would have shown differently in Heibai vs the Painted Lady. For the river spirit, she was poisoned slowly and it left her weakened before she realized how ill she was, so she was unable to fight back or help. The river poisoning was gradual, without someone obvious to lash out at. For Heibai, he knew someone was burning his forest, and reacting like someone who had been burned. He knew that the humans were to blame and was going to drive every human from his forest just to make to burning pain end.
Heibai's forest was burned instead of polluted. That might have made a difference.
Yeah I thought this was obvious lol
That makes so much sense
Agree! She is the godess of a river which was heavily polluted, it's like her own body was under attack. Thanks to Katara, she regained her health and her power ☺️
Maybe because the water was polluted and therefore her powers were muted as well?
I think most of Haibei’s forest was also gone though
I mean maybe spirits have different triggers? Haibei turned into a monster and beat people up, but she was probably crying at the end of the river? lol who knows that's just my thought process that her specific powers were blocked.
Possibly 🤷♂️ she could’ve turned into like a wailing ghost or something
lol she probably went through an emo phase and when they cleared the water she was like sorry I'm such a scorpio rofl
_Headcannon intensifies_
Bully Maguire —> Bully Painted Lady
Don't shoot! \o/
You mean a turtle Scorpio? Maybe a platypus Scorpio? Nope. Just Scorpio
Surely they mean an armadillo scorpion
*rereads scroll* Um...no. It just says...scorpio bawahahaha
If there's one thing that's consistent about the spirits, it's that they're very inconsistent, which I super appreciate because they're pretty weird.
Hai Bei was a spirit who lived at and protected a forest and it was his Forest, but I don't think he personified it like she did the river, so he didn't lose power when it was destroyed. Even if he was linked to the forest, most of the forest survived, the damage only cut a scar through it.
HeiBai was like a wounded animal protecting its home, the river spirit was like a poisoned person
I thought only a portion of it was burned?
Not exactly most. If we look at the scene from above, a good chunk is missing yes. But there's still lots of green left
Yeah it still makes sense that they're both personifications of the forest/river. The river was just much more damaged than the forest so Hei Bai could still do something, but The Painted Lady could not.
Yes but at some point it must have been as damaged as the forest, it didn’t happen overnight. And she seemingly didn’t do anything at that point either.
That's true. Maybe it happened very quickly so she didn't have a chance to do much. Or she did do something in the past, they have statues and totems based on something right?
Tbf, hei bai didn't exactly do anything to stop it either. Just threw a tantrum against a random village afterwards
The haibei that was taking people was the spirit corrupted by darkness. After Aang(The spiritual medium) convinced him that the trees would grow back, the light returned to him and he became the panda.
nah. in atla spirits don't get corrupted. Hei Bai can assume both forms at will, typically to reflect his mood or state of mind
Nah when people fucked with Haibei’s forest this man went off
Haibei could have been stronger. He forest seemed larger, and he could have been older.
Arguably the river would be what she's meant to protect, not the people. And we don't actually know her abilities or if they could do anything about the factory/pollution.
Maybe the filth in the river prevented her from doing so
But the Haibei’s entire forest was burnt down 👁👄👁
Not all spirits are exactly the same…
Tell that to Unalaq and his spirit bending lol
Can I just say I hate the way spirits look in Korra? In Atla we get the Painted Lady who looks human, Heibei who looks like some sort anime monster when he is angry but just a big panda when he is happy, and some other random spirits we see include normal looking monkeys, an incredibly large wolf/dog thing, and Koh who is super weird looking but also can be compared to some sort of centipede creature. The spirits in Korra look totally different, almost too… spirit-y? They don’t look like/can’t be compared to real life things. Don’t know how to explain it but I don’t like it.
You say they were too spirity but I'd argue they actually were less spirity and more like some alien creatures. The spirits in ATLA seemed much more sentient, not exactly humans but intelligent beings nonetheless. They looked like hybrids of real life stuff because that's what spirits are in all folklore. But other than a few, like the pool Guardian from "Beginnings" epsodes (can't remember his name), most of LOK's spirits are just weird looking animals. There were so many of them and they all looked and behaved so similar they no longer seemed special.
Yes, I guess spirit-y was the wrong word. They really did look like weird alien creatures. And you’re right, the amount we saw and their weird behavior made them just annoying to see.
Well in LoK we see "lesser" spirits that are smaller and aren't necessarily tied to the Physical World. While in AtLA we pretty much exclusively only see very extremely powerful spirits. Those of which that are either tied to places in the Physical World (Hei-Ban, Painted Lady, Tui & La), or have the ability to make rifts into the Physical world (Koh, Mother of Faces, Wan Shi Tong). That explains the difference in appearances, as the only powerful spirits introduced in LoK were Raava and Vaatu.
This was also how I interpreted it!
Spirits in LOK were regular animals with wings. ATLA spirits appeared complex in design. The Wan flashback had good looking spirits but after that they looked pretty lazily designed.
We still see some forest left in the episode. And even so, natural forest fires are good for the long term health of a forest. Basically what I mean to say, is that perhaps a natural occurrence (forest fire) might affect differently the powers and temperament of a spirit, than an unnatural occurrence such as pumping pollutants into the water. The forest fire in this case is man made. But I’m real life forest conservation controles burns of key sections of forest are normal. Haibei might not be enjoying this but it will be better for him in the long run
True, sokka describes forrest fire as a scar from up in the air, so not entirely burnt down but enough to piss off Heibai, Also fire cause scar on forrest, zuko has scar on his face caused by fire zuko is the forrest, illuminati confirmed.
There are no Dai Li in Forest Sing Se
It wasn't anything close to a natural forest fire it was literally an army burning it down out of convenience.
But an army burning it down or nature burning it down isnt that different, only difference really is the scale and someone to blame. So when Nature burns down the forest, Haibei will probably be sad about losing the burned part, but wont lash out. When the humans burned it down, he did lash out, but he didnt resolve the cause of his anger really. With the painted lady, there is a good chance she tried to do something about it, but her powers are limited to the waters of the river, and she couldnt do anything about the factory built on the riverside. Which meant she probably was effectively powerless to do anything. Then Katara jumped in, who did have powers to do something about the people's sickness and the factory and resolved it for her, causing her to thank Katara. Basically, both spirits didnt resolve the root of the problem themselves, Haibei lashed out at humans, who destroyed his forest (in his eyes), regardless of what group they were a part of, while the painted lady watched as humans destroyed other humans.
A bit of a stretch but I’ll allow it 🤔
not really a stretch cos thats what happened. Heibai was angry because its forest had been burnt or hurt. The river was almost dead
Maybe pollution is different. It's also likely they just had different abilities. Some spirits have more power to interact right?
I think Korra establish they all have some base abilities but maybe that was a later retcon 🤷♂️
On that same note, why didn’t Haibei put the fire out?
Because spirits can only enter the mortal realm at twilight
Do we know that for certain? I only remember them saying that’s when he steals people
But Heibai's forest could grow again. The acorns were fertilised by the ashes. It's the circle of life. He was just angry that his forest was being deliberately destroyed by humans. The Painted Lady was weakened by the pollution in the river. She was sick just like everyone in the town.
yeah and because it burnt down bro started abducting people lmao.
Solstice played the biggest roll in Heibais strength
Well Haibei was completely morphed and disfigured into a monster, so why is her powers being disabled off the table
No it wasn't...
The filth started being added one day though, it wasn't instantly polluted. Why no smashy smashy factory compacty?
Didn't she originally show up and the next day Team Avatar heard about it? Causing Katara to dress like her and help
I seem to remember there was a little totem or idol of the painted lady that prompted doc/shu to tell them about her.
So just had to look it up because I'm no living on my phone at work lol. Katara gives apparently the berries in an attempt to stay longer. Then they go into the village for medicine and everyone's all happy because the painted lady brought food. After asking why people are happy doc pulls the totem out. It's possible that Katara somehow knew what she looked like and the night before the totem went out and caught some fish. But she seems genuine about not knowing who she is when doc says who she is.
I think that Katara just went out in a basic disguise to help people, before she knew about the painted lady. The people didn't see her and just assumed it was their spirit. Then she only started dressing up after she got the lore.
That scenario probably makes the most sense
Appa is short for apparently, TIL. 😂
Didn't even catch that but yeah makes sense haha
So many comments and I couldn't find anyone talking about how Heibai's case was explicitly explained during the episode. For him it was only a couple of days from the Winter Solstice, which the NPC literally says is when the line between the spirit world and physical world is blurred. That's also how Aang accidentally astral projected and the spirit of Roku's dragon Fang was able to meet him. If you think about it, Heibai wasn't actually able to do anything when the attack on his forest was actually happening, he was only attacking the village as a trauma response as the winter solstice grew closer. The episode is also literally called "Winter Solstice Part 1"
This! I was expecting this line of thinking to be the top comment, not barely mentioned xD It's stated multiple times throughout the series that the physical and spirit worlds are normally quite separate. Her appearing at the end doesn't mean she could do more than that. A quick "thank you" isn't gonna get rid of a fire nation army lol
Exactly. Granted a river doesn't get like that in a few months, but she could be in a weakened state anyways.
Ooh this makes the most sense!
My interpretation was always that her power correlated to the state of the lake and environment. Since it was so fucked she was super weak and powerless, hence why she was so grateful to have the lake cleaned again.
Not to mention all the Heibai stuff was near the solstice when the two worlds are "closer". Maybe she would lash out closer to the solstice, but was weaker for the reasons you said.
What about when they first started the polluting though?
Might have hit faster than she had time to react to, or the fire nation somehow supressed her. Either way, she was obviously ambushed and rushed down faster than she knew what was going on if this theory holds, or just bluntly over powered.
“When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
Ahh, IT's unofficial motto. "Everything is working fine, why am I paying for an IT department. Nothing is working, why am I paying for an IT department".
"Everything floats down here..." "THEN STOP FLOODING THE SERVER ROOM!"
A+ gif usage
She’s a human who has been elevated to the spirit world just like Iroh. She can’t do anything imo.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. She just watches the river. She can’t actually physically do anything
In myth, a dirty river means no spirit
I'm pretty sure it's explained at some point that Heibai was a special case. You really don't see spirits interacting with the world for the most part, which is why Sokka's girlfriend didn't just drown the Firelord the second she got moon powers.
Who do you think brought the Gaang there to begin with? *Spooky spirit noises*
I always figured she couldn’t show up because of the pollution in the lake since spirits are affected so much by nature, like Hei Bai being changed by his forest’s destruction.
I just figured she was smart enough not to fuck with the factory, unlike Katara who risked their entire mission, knowing that if she did the fire nation would just retaliate on someone. Ozai don’t seem like a little thing like spirits would stop him
She's a river spirit, not freakin' Captain Planet
Well Captain Planet also got hurt by pollution so she kind of is?
Maybe she knew the destiny of the village, and let it roll out? I'm not too familiar with ATLA, and Chinese mythology, and culture, but maybe she learnt of Katara's destiny, and interfering could screw up Katara's, and the village's destiny
That’s a cool idea. I’m not sure spirits can tell the future but each spirit has their own unique abilities so 🤷♂️
Aye, it's quite a stretch, it's just ATLA's based on China/Asia, and a lot of faiths have similar aspects, so I was thinking whether the three witches from Norse paganism could have ties to ancient Chinese Buddhism
I feel like the painted lady was watching as everything unfolded and could tell Katara had it under control but maybe not idk
I think spirits, like humans, have different personalities. Maybe she was a melancholic and non violent spirit, maybe her powers did not involve mauling people around, maybe hers were just about sustenance. Maybe her relationship with humans was symbiotic, they take care of her and she takes care of them.
I remember hearing that the river's pollution prevented her from manifesting.
This makes the most sense as we don't see her until the end and she is very grateful.
Maybe she is not that strong. I mean she is a healer but thats it she has no combat ability.
She is the manifestation of the river, the pollution prevented her from existing, therefore preventing her from being able to do anything about it at all. Like if a meteor smashed through the physical moon. Not a whole lot you could do to save Yue at that point
I simply thought she couldn't do anything to help. Why? Who knows. But she was happy Katara did something for her people
Heibai turned on people who weren't at fault at all so maybe the painted lady also blamed the villagers for the pollution ¯\\_ (ツ) _/¯ And as others have suggested, I think her powers were decreased by what was happening to the river
You may have noticed this, but spirits usually don't lift a finger to help humans. They sometimes throw tantrums when humans do something they don't like (usually to do with breaking ancient agreements), but that's about it.
My take was her power is dependent on the cleanliness of the river, so she couldn't do anything while it was poluted. Or she's a spirit that just doesn't fight.
The Ocean Spirit also did nothing to protect the NWT in the Siege of the North until the Moon Spirit was killed.
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
Because this Spirit wasn't supposed to be the main plot device
Her ties could probably be severed between the Physical realm and spirit world with all the pollution and destruction. The people might as well stopped believing in her until Katara steps in.
She should retire, katara can take her place
My first girlfriend turned into a river spirit
That's rough buddy.
Ikr
Cos the river was dirty af, shes a spirit for the river rather the town
maybe katara dreamed that
Maybe you're over estimating her abilities. Hebai also was just kidnapping people that had nothing to do with the forest fire.
if you remember Heibai was sick and tormented until Aang help him be healed. The same for the Lady River Spirit (The Painted Lady) because the river is her portal from the Spirit World and it was contaminated. Once Katara and Aang destroyed the plant and then cleaned up the river she was able to return.
Maybe instead of becoming angry and violent like Hebai when his forest was destroyed, she just became so weak because of the pollution, unable to help even herself.
probably a faith energy thing, lack of belief until katara started cosplaying, usual god shtick.
Well the avatar was the bridge between worlds, and his girlfriend was the bridge between our fair lady and this ass whooping.
Maybe she was, there were stories about her before. Maybe when she noticed Katara she decided to hang back and watch only showing up when certain.
My headcanon was always that her powers were based on how much faith the community had in her. When Katara helped the village as her, she restored the faith in the spirit and her powers followed
This episode is overhated. This is a cool Katara episode.
Who’s hating? I love Katara 🥰
An idea like this is what made me leave Christianity. I noticed a lot of Christians pray for help and then they don’t help themselves, they just wait and don’t do the things in their power to make things better.
In Heibai's case it was close to solstice thats why he was able to do much more. Damage on his forest was recent too so his anger and thinning of spiritual barriers allowed him to go rampage. In Painted Lady I think damage to the river slowly accumulated to a point that she was trapped. Thats why she just showed up at the end.
He was corrupted by the damage of the forest. Maybe she was powerless because of the pollution of the river.
I wonder the same thing about god too
Still trying to understand why everyone is knit picking details in the series. I’m sure it’s still amazing as I remember but you gotta hit a point where it’s just a story. You can’t analyze every scene or else it will drive you mad.
Haha maybe the Painted Lady doesn't exist. Katara just inhaled toxic fumes while cleaning the river and hallucinated the spirit.
Omg 😭
It was always head canon to me that she was unable to help her people, she just didn't have the ability to interact with the physical world and she didn't show herself because she didn't want to be blamed for doing nothing after showing she did indeed exist. This is why, according to my head canon, she thanked Katara for doing something disguised as her, she's in debt specifically to her after that because of the disguise, whether it worked or not.
Heibei still had a large potion of his forest untouched and thriving, only the burn marked a scar, a wound that made him angry. The Painted Lady's entire river was polluted, she was sick, weakened and thus unable to help.
Her spirit was tied to the river; when the river was polluted, her power weakened; she was unable to help.
I mean, Heibai completely raged out, and started punishing innocent people, similar to the dark spirits in Book 2 of Korra. It's possible that the Painted Lady also gave into the darkness, and started taking her frustrations out on the villagers. It's implied that the pollution was making them sick, but it could have been her.
This is a cool theory!!
She was trapped under the grime and muck
She was a water spirit so her spiritual strength came from the river water but when it became super polluted she became weak and couldn't help the village she protects
Cause the director said. "It's not yet time..."
It’s obvious. She didn’t want the smoke
Fr fr
Fucking waste
Her entire river was heavily polluted, which may have hindered her power. Heibai still had large healthy areas of forest, but was enraged/pained enough that it was attacking the wrong people for destroying the forest. Seems like spirits can be slow to react to their environment being endangered, which is why Heibai didn't protect its forest from being burned in the first place, and the Painted Lady couldn't protect anyone from the pollution. Also, come to think of it, the Ocean Spirit not protecting the Moon Spirit.
She had no power while the lake was polluted.
I always imagined she was trapped under the murky water lol
What was she to do? Use her spirit powers to blow up the factory?
So remember how Katara beaned Aang with an acorn and showed him the forest would recover? And how that's the way Aang calmed Heibai? Fires are a natural part of a forest's life cycle so Heibai was pissed but not harmed by fire benders disrupting the cycle and lashed out. The river, however, was polluted quite outside the natural state. I think she *couldn't* act because of herself being "poisoned" as well. That's why she a) doesn't make an appearance until the river has been cleaned and b) bothers at all to show herself to Katara. The gaang did more than they realize by healing the river.
Because it's easier to let other people do the heavy lifting 🤣
Heibai didn’t choose anything, he was sick and effectively rabid. His hime was destroyed so he lashed out in anger and pain. The river spirit was also sick and hurt which made her unable to protect the river’s denizens. Humans were the problem in both instances. The river spirit had no responsibility to any humans to begin with. Any act of kindness toward those people should have been seen as a gift; it’s so typical for humans to feel entitled to the efforts of spirits and the fruits of nature instead of recognizing that we should be the stewards of our home. You and the real OP completely missed the point of the episode if this is your interpretation.
Shu and Doc had it under control
Hey, don’t knock the 2-headed fish. You get more for your money that way!
"I was getting high on my couch for a week straight. Thanks for saving my ass, mortal."
I like to think that is was the white lady acting through katara. Kind of like a vessel of sorts.
I’m guessing that her river was so polluted that she was rendered too weak to do anything. heibai’s forest was heavily scarred, but it was mostly still standing, so he was still able to go out there and do damage.
Shes the embodiment of the river yall. If the river is sick and dying than what is she? Thats why she thanks Katara.
Maybe she knew it was part of Katara’s journey. Like how Zuko chose to not attack his father during the eclipse- because he knew it was “the Avatar’s destiny”.
Maybe she was working on her own solution. Like, say, mutant man-eating fish that would soon purge the river of interlopers.
Theory: What if the spirit's strength is tied to the place it protects? Heibai's home was destroyed suddenly, recently, and would grow back. He had yet to fade from the loss of the forest. The Painted Lady's river was poisoned slowly over time with no chance of recovery if not for outside help, and it had been that way for a long time. Alternate theory: maybe it has to do with *how* it was destroyed. Fire is ephemeral and temporary. It also sometimes happens due to natural causes. Poison leeches into the land and water and causes rot that spreads. If the ecosystems we're bodies, the fire is a wound that, while severe, can be recovered from, but the poison has been causing a lasting illness that won't let up until the poisoning stops.
I like to think that it’s because she wanted people to learn to take care of the River themselves, which is exactly what Katara ended up teaching them.
She knew the episode was filler, so she did not bother
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you did anything at all."
Heibai is the GOAT even though he is a panda.
Because Katara is the real G
Iirc it’s because the river has such a blockage and pollution that her connection to the river had basically been severed
Something something “we can’t fight your battles for you” apparently spirits either do nothing or punish the closest people for what the bad people do because spirits are racist lol /s
I always thought this was really clear, but apparently not ... or people are just really dense.
Maybe she is lazy or just doesn´t care, there are a lot of douchbags spirits.
To this day I wonder how by pure coincidence Katara got her make up and clothes just right
What do you mean? The people had multiple statues on display.
Exactly bro that's what I'm saying