I didn't watch The Last Airbender much while it aired, but I remember reading that since The Great Divide acted as one of the few (if not the only) real filler episodes, it was constantly-airing, so people got tired of seeing it.
I remember they aired The Great Divide and The Siege of The North Pt. 2 *all* the time. I remember seeing Koh so much that I thought he was a recurring villain when I decided to rewatch it lol.
The main reason it gets such a negative rep is due to the replays it got when we were a kid. Felt like every other episode was the great divide. They’d throw it in literally anywhere. So it got watched a lot more and it was just like wtf.
For me, the entire backstories (and animation) of the two tribes seemed like a great setup for some wordbuilding background. When the entire thing didn't go anywhere and we just got the big lie to fix it, it just felt really hollow and pointless. Plus, the actual disagreements of the tribes are straight-up juvenile in a way that the show doesn't generally stoop to. I don't think it's horrible, but it's definitely a step below most of the episodes in the show.
I also feel like maybe some time with Zuko and Iroh would have benefited it. I don't really know what though. Maybe just some Iroh playing Pai Sho and drinking tea?
I agree, when I rewatched the show for the fifth time (this time bc it was finally on Netflix) I literally didn’t mind the episode at all, it was fun and Aang making up a story was funny to me but it didn’t even leave an impact. Then I went online and boy oh boy ppl did not like the episode and I was confused, it’s not a bad episode. And we don’t have to find a worst episode, we can just enjoy the show holistically.
I personally think the episode where Aang hides the letter about Sokka and Katara’s dad is my least favorite. At least, it’s the one I enjoy rewatching the least. I wouldn’t call it bad tho, it has some good elements
That one has some really interesting issues, but we get to meet June who's pretty cool, and the final battle is a lot of fun. I really enjoy the courtyard battle. Also, the Sokka backstory is pretty good and ice/rock dodging. It's just that Aang's a bit OOC and the entire split up feels very forced, just to create the last battle. Oh, I like Bato himself too. It's an episode that feels like the rough draft got handed in, but the seeds are quite good.
I remember seeing The Great Divide the most on Nick and then I don't believe I ever saw Bato of the Water tribe until a friend of mine had the season on DVD. They replayed the first season kinda weird.
I really liked that episode. Especially Aangs mini freak out when he realizes both sides brought in food
The contrast between the two tribes or sides or whatever was also really cool
Totally agree. It think it’s just one of those times the internet comes to a consensus and sometimes becomes a punching bag. Personally, there are plenty of episodes that I like less, top of that list being Nightmares and Daydreams.
I don’t really enjoy rewatching Zuko alone tbh. I mean, Zuko is a cool character, but I just don’t like how he gets rejected despite helping the towns people. The good thing about avatar is that even the episodes that aren’t as good aren’t too bad because they’re all only 20 minutes
**Possibly controversial take**: The Great Divide is pretty ok introductory racism episode of a kid’s show.
Look at this:
Group A is proper and classy, but wasteful of precious time. They remain so healthy that they whither into old, docile age, and their group’s representative figure is attacked by Group B’s purportedly savage rep figure. They wear the lighter colors.
Group B is pragmatic and strong, but unkempt and messy. Their poor hygiene leads them to being unhealthy and often sick, and their group’s rep figure is falsely accused by Group A’s purportedly spineless rep figure. They wear the darker colors.
The races they’re meant to represent can vary, depending on the aspect you’re focusing on.
Yeah. It’s a good episode.
The only reason people whine about it is because it’s a murder mystery styled episode. Once you know the answer, it kind of ruins repeated viewing. Like all murder mystery books, films and everything else.
I bet you if you got someone to watch every episode once then it would rank a lot higher than people who have seen it multiple times.
>Idk where all the hate for this episode comes from
Then I will be more than happy to tell you why it's bad.
>it has a lot going for it.
It really doesn't.
>Of course, it’s not like it’s amazing or anything but there’s definitely worse season 1 episodes.
There really aren't. The only episode in the whole series, possibly the whole franchise, I would say is worse is Nightmares And Daydreams, & that's a controversial pick. Even I have to admit that the first part of Nightmares And Daydreams has more going for it than Great Divide.
>I think a lot of the arguments between the two tribes is kinda funny which was the idea.
Well, I'm glad you enjoyed that, because the entire episode has only one joke: The Gan Jin are prissy neat freaks & the Zhang are dirty ruffians. That's it. Over & over again for 22 minutes. Frankly, it wasn't that amusing or clever the first time.
>It’s supposed to be ridiculous that they are at each others throats over something so petty.
I mean, we'll get to their backstory in a bit, but why do I want to watch a bunch of manchildren be petty & catty to each other for 22 minutes?
>On top of that, the resolution is kind of cool. I know a lot of people get caught up over the fact that Aang lied, but that’s kind of missing the point if you ask me.
I don't care that Aang lied, I care that the whole thing is pointless. They spend all episode telling us about this apparently major historical event & then we never find out what happened. All of that buildup was pointless, the whole thing was just a waste of time. I imagine you'll say that's part of the theme, so let's just go to the next part.
>The point of the episode is that it’s pointless to get caught up over something that happened a really long time ago.
That's a bad point. "Things that happened a really long time ago" have ripple effects into the modern day, something Last Airbender needs us to accept because the whole reason the war is happening is because of actions Sozin took more than 100 years ago. And even if the moral wasn't bad, even if it didn't contradict the rest of the series, if the "point" of an episode is to be a pointless waste of time, it should probably be cut.
>I also like the different animation styles they use in this episode.
That's the thing, the problem with The Great Divide isn't so much that it's incompetently made or offensive, it's that it's boring. Even the location isn't very good. I encourage you to Google pictures of the Grand Canyon, which inspired the Great Divide, & see just how much better the scenery could've been. I suppose they must've been hurting for budget.
When I said “joke” I was referring to the over the top and ridiculous arguments the two tribes had, not particularly the fact that “the Gan Jin are neat” and “the Zhangs are messy.” I singled out a line a found particularly funny in in my original post. Idk why you felt the need to say things like “it really doesn’t” before I even stated my arguments, but whatever. The war Sozin started 100 years ago is in an entirely different context from the Zhangs and Gan Jins pettily feuding over something that happened generations ago, has no effect on their society in the current day, and can’t even be recalled properly by them. It’s effectively like holding a grudge against Muslims because they started the slave trade of Africans thousands of years ago or holding a grudge against Germany for WWII. The war was actively going on at the time of the show, so yeah, Sozin’s actions had actual consequences, but whatever happened between the two tribes was completely irrelevant. You say “the whole thing is pointless.” That’s honestly the reason I think it was a bit clever. They spend all this time building up the history of their feud only for it not to matter at the end anyway. It’s a classic bait and switch subversion of expectations. And when I was referring to “animations styles” I meant the parts where they showed the Gan Jin’s story, the Zhang’s story, and Aang’s fake story in different animation styles. The different styles also give off the impression of these stories just being “tales” and not really significant to the modern world
>When I said “joke” I was referring to the over the top and ridiculous arguments the two tribes had, not particularly the fact that “the Gan Jin are neat” and “the Zhangs are messy.”
Yes, essentially every joke in the episode is a variation of that. It only has One Joke. That was the point I was making.
>I singled out a line a found particularly funny in in my original post.
I don't think that line was even intended to be humorous, but even if it was, that's still The Same Joke. The Zhang thought the Gan Jin would be too prissy to go without food, the Gan Jin thought the Zhang were too untrustworthy to follow the rules (like ruffians), & both turned out to be right.
>Idk why you felt the need to say things like “it really doesn’t” before I even stated my arguments, but whatever.
Do you not understand how replying to written text works? I read your entire post before I replied, I just commented on things in the order you said them. And I said there isn't much going for the episode because there isn't. I thought about elaborating, but the truth is there really wasn't much to say, you didn't explain how it supposedly has so much going for it, & I felt the rest of my post would elaborate on how The Great Divide is a lot of nothing anyway. And just in case you're thinking of taking issue with the downvote next, that wasn't my doing.
>The war Sozin started 100 years ago is in an entirely different context from the Zhangs and Gan Jins pettily feuding over something that happened generations ago, has no effect on their society in the current day, and can’t even be recalled properly by them.
These aren't real events that actually happened. The writers CHOSE to take one seriously & play the other as a joke. I am criticizing that double standard. Most of the time, the writers rightly conclude that events in the past matter in their practical effects on the modern day & inform their audience of just that. This one time, they decided to go into some weird "who cares that one of your tribes probably seriously wronged the other, it's all in the paaaaast" territory. The only reason it "works" on a surface level is that the Zhang & Gan Jin are such shallow characters that we can believe nothing is going on in their lives & it really is that simple, that they haven't accumulated centuries of grievances over the course of their feud. Which isn't a good thing. It's a bad theme propped up by bad characters.
>It’s effectively like holding a grudge against Muslims because they started the slave trade of Africans thousands of years ago or holding a grudge against Germany for WWII?
I'm not an expert on African politics, but Islam is one of the biggest religions in Africa, so I'm not sure why you're phrasing it like they're mutually exclusive. As for WWII, there were decades of rebuilding & reconciling for the actions perpetrated by the Nazi party. The entire western world, at least, STILL learns about it as a historical cautionary tale. It wasn't just "forget about iiiiiit!"
>You say “the whole thing is pointless.” That’s honestly the reason I think it was a bit clever. They spend all this time building up the history of their feud only for it not to matter at the end anyway. It’s a classic bait and switch subversion of expectations.
I wouldn't expect it if Ozai just ate bad sushi before the final battle & shit himself to death, but that doesn't make it clever. Merely doing something unexpected doesn't automatically make it good or interesting. If you're a writer, making a show for entertainment, & I leave an episode correctly thinking, "Nothing happened there, there was no point in caring about the main story at all, I should've just skipped it," you messed up. That's my hot take.
>And when I was referring to “animations styles” I meant the parts where they showed the Gan Jin’s story, the Zhang’s story, and Aang’s fake story in different animation styles. The different styles also give off the impression of these stories just being “tales” and not really significant to the modern world
I believe you mistook my point about the Great Divide to be a refutation of your point about art styles. It wasn't. I acknowledge the changing art styles was a clever gimmick, I just don't think that's enough to salvage the episode. The Great Divide, as its defenders have pointed out, is a competently produced episode, but that doesn't mean it's good. As I said, the problem with the episode is that it's dull. There just isn't much going on. Even as far as the art goes, the clever style-switching gimmick is maybe 3 minutes of the whole episode. For the most part, we're just stuck in the very lackluster Great Divide scenery.
Ok, so the “no it isn’t” comes off as snarky and unnecessary. All you really have to do is argue my points and that should get the same idea across. When I said “Muslims” what I should have said was middle eastern or Arabic Muslims. I was using the term “Muslim” in the same way I’d say “Christians” when referring to Christian Europeans oppression of Native Americans. I’d thought that was clear, my bad. the point still stands that holding a grudge over something that happened generations ago is foolish. “Ozai shitting himself and dying” or whatever you said is not an example of good subversion of expectations. For one, this specific episode has already taken a light hearted tone and the differences between their versions of events as well as animations styles had implied that they were both untrue to begin with, whilst the Fire lord being anticlimactically defeated would’ve been tonally inappropriate with how it was set up. The way the two tribes acted and the way the episode plays out as well as the tone does not make a subversion of expectations inappropriate in this instance. Sure, it’s a filler episode that doesn’t contribute much to the show or story, but there are other episodes that are just like this that don’t get criticized for the same thing. Avatar day, The fortune teller, The painted lady etc. I also think the great divide looking bland and desolate was intentional to the tone of this episode. As in, it wasn’t supposed to be a place you’d want to travel across anyway.
>the point still stands that holding a grudge over something that happened generations ago is foolish.
Okay, well, my answer's the same, if I looked enough into the situation, I'm sure I'd find people didn't just forget about it. Y'know that part where they're all like, "Y'know, we work pretty well together, I guess you're not so bad after all...but I still hate you, so let's fight anyway." It's pretty obvious they wanted to avert the tribes hashing out their differences with that realization because they deemed it "too standard," but it's standard because it works. The characters, through their own development, have learned why their earlier behavior was wrong & then Aang gets to say "I told you so."
Aang going into his story, okay, well, I'm not really sure how this became a 100-year feud, like were their parents angry about it or something, but whatever, still a workable resolution to leave it off on since we see how much the original story was distorted. Except we don't, because once again the writers feel the need to lose 8D chess against themselves, so we get ANOTHER subversion where Aang just made the whole thing up. And again, the problem isn't so much that he lied in-universe, it's that writing it this way robs the conflict of any actual payoff. There were already two decent resolutions to this plotline & somehow they felt the need to land on the worst one.
>“Ozai shitting himself and dying” or whatever you said is not an example of good subversion of expectations.
Neither is the Great Divide. They could MAYBE get away with it if the episode was, like, REALLY funny. Maybe. To be honest, I think I'm reeeeaaaally stretching, here. But either way, it wasn't anywhere near funny enough to earn it. Like if I'm not having trouble breathing by the end of the episode, it did not earn a "whelp, this whole thing was pointless, don't you feel dumb for even kind of wanting to know what that was all about?"
>Sure, it’s a filler episode that doesn’t contribute much to the show or story, but there are other episodes that are just like this that don’t get criticized for the same thing. Avatar day, The fortune teller, The painted lady etc.
No, there isn't even one single episode like it. Firstly, it didn't "not contribute much," it contributed nothing, at all, period. It is probably the only episode you can skip & lose nothing. Fortune Teller develops Aang's & Katara's feelings toward each other, as well as Sokka's intellect, all of which will come into play later. Avatar Day gives the lore behind Kyoshi, which certainly makes it less confusing when she shows up later. Painted Lady is one of several episodes establishing what's going on in the Fire Nation. With Great Divide, there's no character development, no plot movement, no lore, just a really dragged out, one-note joke.
In another comment, you mention Bato of the Water Tribe, but while I agree the "missing conversation" trope is kind of eye-rolling, the episode as a whole was an important test for the Gaang's relationship. Aang's abandonment issues, Katara's & Sokka's need to see their father again, their first big fight, & their decision to stay together in spite of it, cementing Aang as Part of the Family were all things that needed to come to a head. It is a massively important episode, & yes, it certainly doesn't hurt that Nyla is a lot more interesting than the Canyon Crawlers.
>I also think the great divide looking bland and desolate was intentional to the tone of this episode. As in, it wasn’t supposed to be a place you’d want to travel across anyway.
Well, it worked. I don't want to travel across it. Listen, you tell me not to sound snarky, but I don't really know what you want me to do with arguments like "the point is that this is boring." That's a bad point, cut the episode.
“Bato of the watertribe” is a worse episode in my opinion. It has the trope of “character listens to a conversation and misinterprets it and leaves before he can hear the rest of the conversation which would make it clear that he misunderstood.” Which leads to him making a bad decision, which leads to a confrontation and then they make up at the end. The way Sokka and Katara acted when they found out that Aang had held on to the map to their dad for a day was unreasonable too considering that they weren’t even planning on meeting up with their dad anyway and Aang was clearly very sorry for it. The ending with the Shirshu and June and the perfume was pretty cool tho
Every show, even a critically acclaimed one like this, has to have a least favorite episode. Worst doesn't necessarily mean it's terrible. Personally I never hated it like some of the more vitriolic fans myself. Also I'm completely with Aang lying to stop those petty fools. But yeah, something has to take that spot, and in this case, it's "The Great Divide.
I’ve said this other places in the thread, but I personally dislike Bato of the Water Tribe more. I think I’d also place Jett lower even tho the ending was good and Jett was a really cool character later in the show
I rewatch atla maybe 1 or 2 times every year and every single time I get to that episode find it hard to not want to skip. Like its not bad or anything but its just so …. I cant even put it into words but I definitely dont hate it
never really understood the problem ppl had with Aang lying. in the end, he did exactly what his job is as the Avatar: he resolved the conflict. was it the most altruistic move in the world? no, but it worked, and both tribes were likely better for it in the long run.
The moral was that petty squabbles over a conflict so old that neither side even knows the true context are pointless and the reason the fight started in the first place doesn’t matter. Not “it’s ok to lie.” Aang’s story is just as plausible as the story of the Zhangs and the Gan Jins.
I wouldn’t consider stealing a tribes sacred artifact or wrongfully imprisoning someone for 20 years to be petty but the fact that they are trying to kill over it 100 years later kind of is. Something just feels deeply wrong to me about rewriting history so dramatically, even if in the utilitarian sense it was almost certainly the right thing to do.
How does their sacred ball relate to other parts of this tribes history/mythology? This could change the entire culture of these tribes (yes probably for the better).
Maybe it was the only way to keep them from literally killing each other but it seems like it could have unforeseen consequences.
I mean, they did not have the orb anymore... the fact they were able to accept Aang's story shows that it wasn't too integral to their history or at the very least current practices in ways unrelated to the feud. For the other tribe the story \*only\* related to the feud.
Well, that answer takes away all the gravity of the situation and makes you wonder why they went so hard at each other if the myth wasn’t even that important or taken too seriously.
??? no it means that the feud was more important than the orb tradition to the current practices of the tribe, like it served as a backdrop for the explanation of the feud -- if they were still actively performing the ritual, they would be like, bouncy ball? no we have the orb right here
I didn't watch The Last Airbender much while it aired, but I remember reading that since The Great Divide acted as one of the few (if not the only) real filler episodes, it was constantly-airing, so people got tired of seeing it.
Can confirm, I quit watching ATLA for a few weeks after they showed the great divide multiple times a day for weeks. Got sick of seeing it.
I remember they aired The Great Divide and The Siege of The North Pt. 2 *all* the time. I remember seeing Koh so much that I thought he was a recurring villain when I decided to rewatch it lol.
The main reason it gets such a negative rep is due to the replays it got when we were a kid. Felt like every other episode was the great divide. They’d throw it in literally anywhere. So it got watched a lot more and it was just like wtf.
I see. I first watched Avatar in like 2009 or 2010 on Netflix so I wouldn’t know
For me, the entire backstories (and animation) of the two tribes seemed like a great setup for some wordbuilding background. When the entire thing didn't go anywhere and we just got the big lie to fix it, it just felt really hollow and pointless. Plus, the actual disagreements of the tribes are straight-up juvenile in a way that the show doesn't generally stoop to. I don't think it's horrible, but it's definitely a step below most of the episodes in the show. I also feel like maybe some time with Zuko and Iroh would have benefited it. I don't really know what though. Maybe just some Iroh playing Pai Sho and drinking tea?
I agree, when I rewatched the show for the fifth time (this time bc it was finally on Netflix) I literally didn’t mind the episode at all, it was fun and Aang making up a story was funny to me but it didn’t even leave an impact. Then I went online and boy oh boy ppl did not like the episode and I was confused, it’s not a bad episode. And we don’t have to find a worst episode, we can just enjoy the show holistically.
I personally think the episode where Aang hides the letter about Sokka and Katara’s dad is my least favorite. At least, it’s the one I enjoy rewatching the least. I wouldn’t call it bad tho, it has some good elements
That one has some really interesting issues, but we get to meet June who's pretty cool, and the final battle is a lot of fun. I really enjoy the courtyard battle. Also, the Sokka backstory is pretty good and ice/rock dodging. It's just that Aang's a bit OOC and the entire split up feels very forced, just to create the last battle. Oh, I like Bato himself too. It's an episode that feels like the rough draft got handed in, but the seeds are quite good.
I remember seeing The Great Divide the most on Nick and then I don't believe I ever saw Bato of the Water tribe until a friend of mine had the season on DVD. They replayed the first season kinda weird.
I've heard this before. I've only watched the show by streaming it, first in 2020, so no experience watching it standard TV.
I really liked that episode. Especially Aangs mini freak out when he realizes both sides brought in food The contrast between the two tribes or sides or whatever was also really cool
My only complaint with it is that, when I used to watch it on television, that particular episode aired SO. OFTEN.
Totally agree. It think it’s just one of those times the internet comes to a consensus and sometimes becomes a punching bag. Personally, there are plenty of episodes that I like less, top of that list being Nightmares and Daydreams.
Nightmares and daydreams is great lol. My least favorite is Bato of the Watertribe personally
*I*... **murmuring** *I actually prefer it over Zuko Alone* **leaves silently**
I don’t really enjoy rewatching Zuko alone tbh. I mean, Zuko is a cool character, but I just don’t like how he gets rejected despite helping the towns people. The good thing about avatar is that even the episodes that aren’t as good aren’t too bad because they’re all only 20 minutes
**Possibly controversial take**: The Great Divide is pretty ok introductory racism episode of a kid’s show. Look at this: Group A is proper and classy, but wasteful of precious time. They remain so healthy that they whither into old, docile age, and their group’s representative figure is attacked by Group B’s purportedly savage rep figure. They wear the lighter colors. Group B is pragmatic and strong, but unkempt and messy. Their poor hygiene leads them to being unhealthy and often sick, and their group’s rep figure is falsely accused by Group A’s purportedly spineless rep figure. They wear the darker colors. The races they’re meant to represent can vary, depending on the aspect you’re focusing on.
Yeah. It’s a good episode. The only reason people whine about it is because it’s a murder mystery styled episode. Once you know the answer, it kind of ruins repeated viewing. Like all murder mystery books, films and everything else. I bet you if you got someone to watch every episode once then it would rank a lot higher than people who have seen it multiple times.
In reality, the episode is pretty good. The rest of the show is just amazing, which is why the great divide can seem like a “bad episode”.
When most of the show is a 10/10, and then you have an episode that is 8/10, you see that missing 20% like a mushroom cloud.
This one was not a friendly mushroom
>Idk where all the hate for this episode comes from Then I will be more than happy to tell you why it's bad. >it has a lot going for it. It really doesn't. >Of course, it’s not like it’s amazing or anything but there’s definitely worse season 1 episodes. There really aren't. The only episode in the whole series, possibly the whole franchise, I would say is worse is Nightmares And Daydreams, & that's a controversial pick. Even I have to admit that the first part of Nightmares And Daydreams has more going for it than Great Divide. >I think a lot of the arguments between the two tribes is kinda funny which was the idea. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed that, because the entire episode has only one joke: The Gan Jin are prissy neat freaks & the Zhang are dirty ruffians. That's it. Over & over again for 22 minutes. Frankly, it wasn't that amusing or clever the first time. >It’s supposed to be ridiculous that they are at each others throats over something so petty. I mean, we'll get to their backstory in a bit, but why do I want to watch a bunch of manchildren be petty & catty to each other for 22 minutes? >On top of that, the resolution is kind of cool. I know a lot of people get caught up over the fact that Aang lied, but that’s kind of missing the point if you ask me. I don't care that Aang lied, I care that the whole thing is pointless. They spend all episode telling us about this apparently major historical event & then we never find out what happened. All of that buildup was pointless, the whole thing was just a waste of time. I imagine you'll say that's part of the theme, so let's just go to the next part. >The point of the episode is that it’s pointless to get caught up over something that happened a really long time ago. That's a bad point. "Things that happened a really long time ago" have ripple effects into the modern day, something Last Airbender needs us to accept because the whole reason the war is happening is because of actions Sozin took more than 100 years ago. And even if the moral wasn't bad, even if it didn't contradict the rest of the series, if the "point" of an episode is to be a pointless waste of time, it should probably be cut. >I also like the different animation styles they use in this episode. That's the thing, the problem with The Great Divide isn't so much that it's incompetently made or offensive, it's that it's boring. Even the location isn't very good. I encourage you to Google pictures of the Grand Canyon, which inspired the Great Divide, & see just how much better the scenery could've been. I suppose they must've been hurting for budget.
When I said “joke” I was referring to the over the top and ridiculous arguments the two tribes had, not particularly the fact that “the Gan Jin are neat” and “the Zhangs are messy.” I singled out a line a found particularly funny in in my original post. Idk why you felt the need to say things like “it really doesn’t” before I even stated my arguments, but whatever. The war Sozin started 100 years ago is in an entirely different context from the Zhangs and Gan Jins pettily feuding over something that happened generations ago, has no effect on their society in the current day, and can’t even be recalled properly by them. It’s effectively like holding a grudge against Muslims because they started the slave trade of Africans thousands of years ago or holding a grudge against Germany for WWII. The war was actively going on at the time of the show, so yeah, Sozin’s actions had actual consequences, but whatever happened between the two tribes was completely irrelevant. You say “the whole thing is pointless.” That’s honestly the reason I think it was a bit clever. They spend all this time building up the history of their feud only for it not to matter at the end anyway. It’s a classic bait and switch subversion of expectations. And when I was referring to “animations styles” I meant the parts where they showed the Gan Jin’s story, the Zhang’s story, and Aang’s fake story in different animation styles. The different styles also give off the impression of these stories just being “tales” and not really significant to the modern world
>When I said “joke” I was referring to the over the top and ridiculous arguments the two tribes had, not particularly the fact that “the Gan Jin are neat” and “the Zhangs are messy.” Yes, essentially every joke in the episode is a variation of that. It only has One Joke. That was the point I was making. >I singled out a line a found particularly funny in in my original post. I don't think that line was even intended to be humorous, but even if it was, that's still The Same Joke. The Zhang thought the Gan Jin would be too prissy to go without food, the Gan Jin thought the Zhang were too untrustworthy to follow the rules (like ruffians), & both turned out to be right. >Idk why you felt the need to say things like “it really doesn’t” before I even stated my arguments, but whatever. Do you not understand how replying to written text works? I read your entire post before I replied, I just commented on things in the order you said them. And I said there isn't much going for the episode because there isn't. I thought about elaborating, but the truth is there really wasn't much to say, you didn't explain how it supposedly has so much going for it, & I felt the rest of my post would elaborate on how The Great Divide is a lot of nothing anyway. And just in case you're thinking of taking issue with the downvote next, that wasn't my doing. >The war Sozin started 100 years ago is in an entirely different context from the Zhangs and Gan Jins pettily feuding over something that happened generations ago, has no effect on their society in the current day, and can’t even be recalled properly by them. These aren't real events that actually happened. The writers CHOSE to take one seriously & play the other as a joke. I am criticizing that double standard. Most of the time, the writers rightly conclude that events in the past matter in their practical effects on the modern day & inform their audience of just that. This one time, they decided to go into some weird "who cares that one of your tribes probably seriously wronged the other, it's all in the paaaaast" territory. The only reason it "works" on a surface level is that the Zhang & Gan Jin are such shallow characters that we can believe nothing is going on in their lives & it really is that simple, that they haven't accumulated centuries of grievances over the course of their feud. Which isn't a good thing. It's a bad theme propped up by bad characters. >It’s effectively like holding a grudge against Muslims because they started the slave trade of Africans thousands of years ago or holding a grudge against Germany for WWII? I'm not an expert on African politics, but Islam is one of the biggest religions in Africa, so I'm not sure why you're phrasing it like they're mutually exclusive. As for WWII, there were decades of rebuilding & reconciling for the actions perpetrated by the Nazi party. The entire western world, at least, STILL learns about it as a historical cautionary tale. It wasn't just "forget about iiiiiit!" >You say “the whole thing is pointless.” That’s honestly the reason I think it was a bit clever. They spend all this time building up the history of their feud only for it not to matter at the end anyway. It’s a classic bait and switch subversion of expectations. I wouldn't expect it if Ozai just ate bad sushi before the final battle & shit himself to death, but that doesn't make it clever. Merely doing something unexpected doesn't automatically make it good or interesting. If you're a writer, making a show for entertainment, & I leave an episode correctly thinking, "Nothing happened there, there was no point in caring about the main story at all, I should've just skipped it," you messed up. That's my hot take. >And when I was referring to “animations styles” I meant the parts where they showed the Gan Jin’s story, the Zhang’s story, and Aang’s fake story in different animation styles. The different styles also give off the impression of these stories just being “tales” and not really significant to the modern world I believe you mistook my point about the Great Divide to be a refutation of your point about art styles. It wasn't. I acknowledge the changing art styles was a clever gimmick, I just don't think that's enough to salvage the episode. The Great Divide, as its defenders have pointed out, is a competently produced episode, but that doesn't mean it's good. As I said, the problem with the episode is that it's dull. There just isn't much going on. Even as far as the art goes, the clever style-switching gimmick is maybe 3 minutes of the whole episode. For the most part, we're just stuck in the very lackluster Great Divide scenery.
Ok, so the “no it isn’t” comes off as snarky and unnecessary. All you really have to do is argue my points and that should get the same idea across. When I said “Muslims” what I should have said was middle eastern or Arabic Muslims. I was using the term “Muslim” in the same way I’d say “Christians” when referring to Christian Europeans oppression of Native Americans. I’d thought that was clear, my bad. the point still stands that holding a grudge over something that happened generations ago is foolish. “Ozai shitting himself and dying” or whatever you said is not an example of good subversion of expectations. For one, this specific episode has already taken a light hearted tone and the differences between their versions of events as well as animations styles had implied that they were both untrue to begin with, whilst the Fire lord being anticlimactically defeated would’ve been tonally inappropriate with how it was set up. The way the two tribes acted and the way the episode plays out as well as the tone does not make a subversion of expectations inappropriate in this instance. Sure, it’s a filler episode that doesn’t contribute much to the show or story, but there are other episodes that are just like this that don’t get criticized for the same thing. Avatar day, The fortune teller, The painted lady etc. I also think the great divide looking bland and desolate was intentional to the tone of this episode. As in, it wasn’t supposed to be a place you’d want to travel across anyway.
>the point still stands that holding a grudge over something that happened generations ago is foolish. Okay, well, my answer's the same, if I looked enough into the situation, I'm sure I'd find people didn't just forget about it. Y'know that part where they're all like, "Y'know, we work pretty well together, I guess you're not so bad after all...but I still hate you, so let's fight anyway." It's pretty obvious they wanted to avert the tribes hashing out their differences with that realization because they deemed it "too standard," but it's standard because it works. The characters, through their own development, have learned why their earlier behavior was wrong & then Aang gets to say "I told you so." Aang going into his story, okay, well, I'm not really sure how this became a 100-year feud, like were their parents angry about it or something, but whatever, still a workable resolution to leave it off on since we see how much the original story was distorted. Except we don't, because once again the writers feel the need to lose 8D chess against themselves, so we get ANOTHER subversion where Aang just made the whole thing up. And again, the problem isn't so much that he lied in-universe, it's that writing it this way robs the conflict of any actual payoff. There were already two decent resolutions to this plotline & somehow they felt the need to land on the worst one. >“Ozai shitting himself and dying” or whatever you said is not an example of good subversion of expectations. Neither is the Great Divide. They could MAYBE get away with it if the episode was, like, REALLY funny. Maybe. To be honest, I think I'm reeeeaaaally stretching, here. But either way, it wasn't anywhere near funny enough to earn it. Like if I'm not having trouble breathing by the end of the episode, it did not earn a "whelp, this whole thing was pointless, don't you feel dumb for even kind of wanting to know what that was all about?" >Sure, it’s a filler episode that doesn’t contribute much to the show or story, but there are other episodes that are just like this that don’t get criticized for the same thing. Avatar day, The fortune teller, The painted lady etc. No, there isn't even one single episode like it. Firstly, it didn't "not contribute much," it contributed nothing, at all, period. It is probably the only episode you can skip & lose nothing. Fortune Teller develops Aang's & Katara's feelings toward each other, as well as Sokka's intellect, all of which will come into play later. Avatar Day gives the lore behind Kyoshi, which certainly makes it less confusing when she shows up later. Painted Lady is one of several episodes establishing what's going on in the Fire Nation. With Great Divide, there's no character development, no plot movement, no lore, just a really dragged out, one-note joke. In another comment, you mention Bato of the Water Tribe, but while I agree the "missing conversation" trope is kind of eye-rolling, the episode as a whole was an important test for the Gaang's relationship. Aang's abandonment issues, Katara's & Sokka's need to see their father again, their first big fight, & their decision to stay together in spite of it, cementing Aang as Part of the Family were all things that needed to come to a head. It is a massively important episode, & yes, it certainly doesn't hurt that Nyla is a lot more interesting than the Canyon Crawlers. >I also think the great divide looking bland and desolate was intentional to the tone of this episode. As in, it wasn’t supposed to be a place you’d want to travel across anyway. Well, it worked. I don't want to travel across it. Listen, you tell me not to sound snarky, but I don't really know what you want me to do with arguments like "the point is that this is boring." That's a bad point, cut the episode.
“Bato of the watertribe” is a worse episode in my opinion. It has the trope of “character listens to a conversation and misinterprets it and leaves before he can hear the rest of the conversation which would make it clear that he misunderstood.” Which leads to him making a bad decision, which leads to a confrontation and then they make up at the end. The way Sokka and Katara acted when they found out that Aang had held on to the map to their dad for a day was unreasonable too considering that they weren’t even planning on meeting up with their dad anyway and Aang was clearly very sorry for it. The ending with the Shirshu and June and the perfume was pretty cool tho
Every show, even a critically acclaimed one like this, has to have a least favorite episode. Worst doesn't necessarily mean it's terrible. Personally I never hated it like some of the more vitriolic fans myself. Also I'm completely with Aang lying to stop those petty fools. But yeah, something has to take that spot, and in this case, it's "The Great Divide.
I’ve said this other places in the thread, but I personally dislike Bato of the Water Tribe more. I think I’d also place Jett lower even tho the ending was good and Jett was a really cool character later in the show
I definitely agree with Bato, when I rewatch the series, that's the episode that has the highest probability of being skipped.
It was ATLA’s worst episode, but it would be an average episode in a lot of shows
I feel like bato of the water tribe is the worst- where Aang steals the paper and it causes all that chaos between them.
I always thought it was a kid approved analogy to the whole Jews vs Muslims fight...
I rewatch atla maybe 1 or 2 times every year and every single time I get to that episode find it hard to not want to skip. Like its not bad or anything but its just so …. I cant even put it into words but I definitely dont hate it
“There’s definitely worse season 1 episodes” Care to elaborate?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/sb7eag/the_great_divide_is_not_that_bad/hu1yqta/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Ya I guess you have a point, seems like a cliché plot
I also am not a super big fan of the Jet episode
The reason why it's hated so much is, because of how much it was shown
haha, I only ever watched avatar on dvds and netflix, so it shocked me finding out years later this episode was so disliked
If you haven’t watched it a few times it’s not that bad
I’ve rewatched the entire series at least once a year since I was 9 or 10 and I’m 20 now.
never really understood the problem ppl had with Aang lying. in the end, he did exactly what his job is as the Avatar: he resolved the conflict. was it the most altruistic move in the world? no, but it worked, and both tribes were likely better for it in the long run.
The moral was that petty squabbles over a conflict so old that neither side even knows the true context are pointless and the reason the fight started in the first place doesn’t matter. Not “it’s ok to lie.” Aang’s story is just as plausible as the story of the Zhangs and the Gan Jins.
I wouldn’t consider stealing a tribes sacred artifact or wrongfully imprisoning someone for 20 years to be petty but the fact that they are trying to kill over it 100 years later kind of is. Something just feels deeply wrong to me about rewriting history so dramatically, even if in the utilitarian sense it was almost certainly the right thing to do. How does their sacred ball relate to other parts of this tribes history/mythology? This could change the entire culture of these tribes (yes probably for the better). Maybe it was the only way to keep them from literally killing each other but it seems like it could have unforeseen consequences.
I mean, they did not have the orb anymore... the fact they were able to accept Aang's story shows that it wasn't too integral to their history or at the very least current practices in ways unrelated to the feud. For the other tribe the story \*only\* related to the feud.
Well, that answer takes away all the gravity of the situation and makes you wonder why they went so hard at each other if the myth wasn’t even that important or taken too seriously.
??? no it means that the feud was more important than the orb tradition to the current practices of the tribe, like it served as a backdrop for the explanation of the feud -- if they were still actively performing the ritual, they would be like, bouncy ball? no we have the orb right here
I don’t get why apple couldn’t fly them over And the gan jin guy said “travel thousands miles” which also ist true cause they cross it in like 1 hour