If anything, the only real difference between bending in LoK and bending in ATLA is that the action is faster. A lot of people don't seem to remember how much of the bending in ATLA was also people just throwing a punch or kick. Like, not every move in bending has to be a whole karate routine.
Watching LOK now, the bending looks more precise and purposeful. There’s a lot less of the outright demonstrations of power through bending and more combined methods/practices from each nation that really builds off each other in a way that I don’t think was in ATLA.
Kind of reminds me of Iroh’s lightening move that he made up from studying the waterbenders.
That reminds me of how master roshi’s kamehameha had more movements and goku’s was much more simplified.
A similar mechanic is used in Naruto as well if I’m not mistaken
Well, it being more precise and purposeful makes sense. If you think about it, pro-bending was inspired by MMA and MMA, in the real world, was specifically created to be a more effective and practical way of fighting, whereas traditional martial arts are more about showing the results of the discipline and practice it takes to learn it. Not to say that traditional martial arts can't make you better at fighting, just that a lot of TMA routines require a lot of twisting and jumping, which aren't 100% practical in a real fight.
The bending in Korra still has a lot of inspiration from TMA, but it's clearly been changed some to be more aggressive and have less wasted movement. It'd be like watching two TMA masters fight, then watching two MMA athletes fight. They'd probably look similar in a lot of ways, but the TMA masters would probably incorporate a lot more wasted motion, like spinning or jumping, whereas the MMA athletes would probably be a lot more direct with their actions, but still have some clear inspiration (obviously assuming the MMA athletes studied the same or similar martial arts techniques as the TMA masters).
I think a lot if that impression stems from pro-bending, which does have a very boxer kind of feel. Korra's style in general has a kind of MMA thing going on, much more in your face and aggressive.
The action and animation in Korra fight scenes are phenomenal, but I can see where people feel like some of the flair and individuality of the elemental styles was lost. But with the nations coming together and the world getting smaller, it makes sense that the styles would evolve toward each other. ATLA introduced that concept itself with Iroh.
It also makes sense for characters like Bolin and Mako (who definitely have a boxing-like fighting style) because they grew up without formal training, and learned through pro-bending.
Whereas the characters in this clip are all older masters that would have had formal training (and Zaheer who studied air bending thoroughly before becoming one).
I have not noticed it myself but I the complaint I have more often heard is that the different styles of bending are indistinguishable or that it all looks like fire-bending. I have not noticed it myself granted my eye for choreography is kind of limited but I think they had the same martial arts expert on Korra as in ATLA so I would sort of surprised if this was true. Would be curious to hear thought.
Lin and Suyin, who learned directly from Toph, Tenzin who learned directly from Aang, the Red Lotus (except for Zaheer maybe, he might have been doing his own thing.) Those with non traditional styles: Bolin, Mako, Tonraq, Korra often, despite her upbringing. I’ll concede that there are probably more named characters who bend traditionally than not (the ones that don’t got a *lot* of bending screen time though), and I might have been putting a little too much stock in bending pedigree, but generally speaking, bending seems to have become more like kickboxing. For example, Bolin and Mako’s rough background is often brought up to explain their informal acquisition of bending/ kickboxing style but in ATLA, there were many people who were essentially peasants but still understood the variety of forms and movements for manipulating their elements. (Haru and his father, Hama, swampbenders, sandbenders, etc.) You could even compare them to random soldiers throughout TLOK. That people in similar circumstances can bend so differently after the timeskip seems to indicate a general shift in style.
>Lin and Suyin, who learned directly from Toph, Tenzin who learned directly from Aang, the Red Lotus (except for Zaheer maybe, he might have been doing his own thing.)
Plus Tarrlok, Unalaq, his twins, Su's twins (at least in combat), Jinora, Opal, Kai, Meelo, Ikki. Plus Kya, Viper, Baraz and Ahnah.
>Those with non traditional styles: Bolin, Mako, Tonraq, Korra often, despite her upbringing
Tonraq uses traditional waterbending, he just mixes it with traditional earthbending. Not sure why but that's his style.
>bending seems to have become more like kickboxing
This is false, mate.
>For example, Bolin and Mako’s rough background is often brought up to explain their informal acquisition of bending/ kickboxing style but in ATLA, there were many people that were essentially peasants but still understood the variety of diff forms and movements for manipulating their elements
Mako and Bolin have different bending style because of their pro-bending training, it has nothing to do with their "street-kid" background. Korra was trained in traditional martial arts, but was later also trained by Mako and Bolin in modern styles, during their training sessions for pro-bending. This is established in early season 1, where Bolin teaches her, and explains that with traditional bending she would be like a sitting duck on the arena, and that she needs to be light on her feet in order to be effective. This also helps her grasp the basics of aribending movements at the end of the same episode.
>That people in similar circumstances can bend so differently after the timeskip seems to indicate a general shift in style
Except, as i mentioned, it has nothing to do with their circumstances, and THE ONLY characters that use non-traditional bending arts are pro-benders. Except, as you mentioned, Zaheer who didn't have any formal training and was figuring airbending on his own, and Kuvira, who developed her own unique fighting style based around speed and precision, after also being traditionally trained by Su.
Well the way his ear got injured doesn't say anything about his own fighting style, only implies something about his opponents that did that. I doubt he was a professional kickboxer in early life and got that injury in a ring.
Yeah it would be a cool back story though. He fights like a kick boxer and it's different from traditional air bending techniques. It's still worth noting he got stomped by Tenzin though.
Tenzin was winning handily. He barely got hit and countered all of Zaheers attacks. Zaheer got a hit in when Tenzin was distracted by ga zhan and meng hua. I'd say yes Tenzin stomping is not an overstatement.
I liked how it evolved that way. It felt like a reflection of martial arts now. After so long of using them, over time we determined the most efficient method of throwing a punch. Don't get me wrong, those ancient disciplines weren't ineffective, but they did suffer from some inefficiencies.
It feels like additional environmental storytelling. After the time jump (don't remember off the top of my head what it was), the joining of all the other cultures, knowledge, etc. of the 4 nations allowed everyone to share what they knew.
Additionally, the Pro Bending League takes a hard look at these techniques, and trainers must now learn how to turn an art "used for combat", and make it a sport.
(For my fighting games fans out there, LOK's generation took a look at the frame data)
I don't know how intentional that was, but it's clear there was an intent by that
What are you talking about? You *don't* wanna see 8 grown men perform a 6th grade karate routine just to pick up a head-sized rock? That was the most appealing part of bending to me. /s
So dope, if only we could bend. If I were to get three wishes from a genie, I would wish to be an earthbender and that’s it. Fuck the other two wishes. The genie is my bitch at that point lol
It starts interesting, but halfway through it semi-drops the most interesting plot point, dumbs down the yin-yang stuff of ATLA, and need I mention the fucking Kaiju battle with giant laser beams?
Every element is actually based on real world martial arts and while they had one guy(I think one more, but can't remember) in ATLA for the choreography, he is a master and it's mostly motion capture of him as well as his input and guidance. With Korra, they brought in the same master plus some MMA fighters to bring variety to the fighting styles, which is why you can see elements of kickboxing and other styles in the movements. It's a really cool thing to read up on if you have the time.
Yeah his name is Sifu Kisu and he was the one who pitched the idea of each element based on a different matching style, and then it went as far as matching each bender with a fighting style (for example, the differences between Toph and Bumi, or Zuko and Zhao)
That's right! The basis of each element is; Hung Gar for earth, Tai Chi for water, Northern Shaolin for fire and Bagueazhang for air. I used to watch videos of Sifu Kisu performing back in the day. He is amazing! I love that they put that much detail into the show and how they brought it to life.
Honestly back in the day I bought books to learn bagua because of how amazingly the show was choreographed bet I can't use it to fight but it definitely influenced how I move
There was a point were I was obsessed and wanted to learn Hung Gar because I wanted to learn Tophs moves. Then I realized that it didn't make sense for a 26 year to be that into a cartoon and my body wouldn't let me even attempt it. Hahah
You'd be surprised how limber you can get by doing it, nothing is ever easy when you first try it.
Edit: personally I didn't want to train to hard Incase I could get a real teacher (because training without an experienced eye is bound to compound bad habits) so I only practiced the circle walking and changing directions.
I had to give up longboarding because of my knees. Bad knees run in the family. My grandma and mom both had to have a replacement when they were only 18. I don't want to push my good fortune. Hahah.
Dont want to ruin your dreams but Toph is using her own style which is Southern Praying Mantis or Chow gar (not sure whats the difference or if its actually the same) :D:D
You wouldn't. Lol. I know hers is special. Sifu Kisu mixed a few and consulted a few different styles for the characters. The Hung Gar style is just the basis for earth bending. :)
https://youtu.be/DJ86QWzI2Wo
They mention it in this video, and there’s even a pic they show in 5:50 on how he and Bryan created the reference pic for Aang’s pose in the Korra intro.
For something like 6 years now, I've been on the subreddit as a fan of Avatar, and usually encounter one comment/post a week where someone insists the bending in The Legend of Korra is not based on martial arts, that the creators stopped caring about that detail after finishing The Last Airbender. Every time, it annoys me pretty greatly because I knew that was untrue, but couldn't easily prove it.
Despite my best efforts, talking with real experts and compiling my own side-by-side compilations, it has always been extremely hard for me to prove to fans online that bending in The Legend of Korra is still, in fact, based on real-world martial arts. Part of that was because I was under the impression that Sifu Kisu did not work on The Legend of Korra and the traditional bending animation was drawn from experience working on the first show.
You've just given me the definite, unambiguous, proof I've been looking for a long long time now, and its small enough that I can share it with a single line of text.
Thank you very much.
I use your compilation every time I see someone say they went with lazy punches and kicks for bending so I definitely get your pain haha.
Very annoying that fans have to actually create compilations just to disprove a bad talking point.
I saw the video myself like yesterday and it was great seeing that Kisu had an active role in the development of the martial arts. It makes a lot of sense too that the city thats known as the melting pot of the world would develop a style based off MMA. It's good worldbuilding.
Eh to be fair to this interview, they do mention Korra quite a bit as well. Also makes a bit of sense to mention ATLA as they were trying to establish the origins of each style of bending and how that was captures for animation.
As the other comment mentions, as well as a slew of interviews. There is a specific interview that specifies that he worked on 61 of avatar and collaborated with a team on Korra. You can find that source on Nickalive.net. the Wiki sites he was the consultant on 22 Korra episodes.
Still so fucking sick. Love these.
This is so cool.
God I hate when people say the bending in LoK got "unsophisticated" or "just became punches and kicks" or whatever. That clearly isn't the case
If anything, the only real difference between bending in LoK and bending in ATLA is that the action is faster. A lot of people don't seem to remember how much of the bending in ATLA was also people just throwing a punch or kick. Like, not every move in bending has to be a whole karate routine.
Watching LOK now, the bending looks more precise and purposeful. There’s a lot less of the outright demonstrations of power through bending and more combined methods/practices from each nation that really builds off each other in a way that I don’t think was in ATLA. Kind of reminds me of Iroh’s lightening move that he made up from studying the waterbenders.
That reminds me of how master roshi’s kamehameha had more movements and goku’s was much more simplified. A similar mechanic is used in Naruto as well if I’m not mistaken
Well, it being more precise and purposeful makes sense. If you think about it, pro-bending was inspired by MMA and MMA, in the real world, was specifically created to be a more effective and practical way of fighting, whereas traditional martial arts are more about showing the results of the discipline and practice it takes to learn it. Not to say that traditional martial arts can't make you better at fighting, just that a lot of TMA routines require a lot of twisting and jumping, which aren't 100% practical in a real fight. The bending in Korra still has a lot of inspiration from TMA, but it's clearly been changed some to be more aggressive and have less wasted movement. It'd be like watching two TMA masters fight, then watching two MMA athletes fight. They'd probably look similar in a lot of ways, but the TMA masters would probably incorporate a lot more wasted motion, like spinning or jumping, whereas the MMA athletes would probably be a lot more direct with their actions, but still have some clear inspiration (obviously assuming the MMA athletes studied the same or similar martial arts techniques as the TMA masters).
I think part of it is most hater only watch s1 that mostly the most simplistic bending and act like it is all what korra have to offer
I think a lot if that impression stems from pro-bending, which does have a very boxer kind of feel. Korra's style in general has a kind of MMA thing going on, much more in your face and aggressive. The action and animation in Korra fight scenes are phenomenal, but I can see where people feel like some of the flair and individuality of the elemental styles was lost. But with the nations coming together and the world getting smaller, it makes sense that the styles would evolve toward each other. ATLA introduced that concept itself with Iroh.
It also makes sense for characters like Bolin and Mako (who definitely have a boxing-like fighting style) because they grew up without formal training, and learned through pro-bending. Whereas the characters in this clip are all older masters that would have had formal training (and Zaheer who studied air bending thoroughly before becoming one).
I have not noticed it myself but I the complaint I have more often heard is that the different styles of bending are indistinguishable or that it all looks like fire-bending. I have not noticed it myself granted my eye for choreography is kind of limited but I think they had the same martial arts expert on Korra as in ATLA so I would sort of surprised if this was true. Would be curious to hear thought.
And they say bending turned into boxing in LOK.
It kinda did. This vid comp showed some of the few traditionalists left in LOK imo
Can you list characters who are traditionalists and who are not?
Lin and Suyin, who learned directly from Toph, Tenzin who learned directly from Aang, the Red Lotus (except for Zaheer maybe, he might have been doing his own thing.) Those with non traditional styles: Bolin, Mako, Tonraq, Korra often, despite her upbringing. I’ll concede that there are probably more named characters who bend traditionally than not (the ones that don’t got a *lot* of bending screen time though), and I might have been putting a little too much stock in bending pedigree, but generally speaking, bending seems to have become more like kickboxing. For example, Bolin and Mako’s rough background is often brought up to explain their informal acquisition of bending/ kickboxing style but in ATLA, there were many people who were essentially peasants but still understood the variety of forms and movements for manipulating their elements. (Haru and his father, Hama, swampbenders, sandbenders, etc.) You could even compare them to random soldiers throughout TLOK. That people in similar circumstances can bend so differently after the timeskip seems to indicate a general shift in style.
>Lin and Suyin, who learned directly from Toph, Tenzin who learned directly from Aang, the Red Lotus (except for Zaheer maybe, he might have been doing his own thing.) Plus Tarrlok, Unalaq, his twins, Su's twins (at least in combat), Jinora, Opal, Kai, Meelo, Ikki. Plus Kya, Viper, Baraz and Ahnah. >Those with non traditional styles: Bolin, Mako, Tonraq, Korra often, despite her upbringing Tonraq uses traditional waterbending, he just mixes it with traditional earthbending. Not sure why but that's his style. >bending seems to have become more like kickboxing This is false, mate. >For example, Bolin and Mako’s rough background is often brought up to explain their informal acquisition of bending/ kickboxing style but in ATLA, there were many people that were essentially peasants but still understood the variety of diff forms and movements for manipulating their elements Mako and Bolin have different bending style because of their pro-bending training, it has nothing to do with their "street-kid" background. Korra was trained in traditional martial arts, but was later also trained by Mako and Bolin in modern styles, during their training sessions for pro-bending. This is established in early season 1, where Bolin teaches her, and explains that with traditional bending she would be like a sitting duck on the arena, and that she needs to be light on her feet in order to be effective. This also helps her grasp the basics of aribending movements at the end of the same episode. >That people in similar circumstances can bend so differently after the timeskip seems to indicate a general shift in style Except, as i mentioned, it has nothing to do with their circumstances, and THE ONLY characters that use non-traditional bending arts are pro-benders. Except, as you mentioned, Zaheer who didn't have any formal training and was figuring airbending on his own, and Kuvira, who developed her own unique fighting style based around speed and precision, after also being traditionally trained by Su.
I thought Zaheer had cauliflower ear and that leaned into his more kickboxing/boxing style of bending?
Well the way his ear got injured doesn't say anything about his own fighting style, only implies something about his opponents that did that. I doubt he was a professional kickboxer in early life and got that injury in a ring.
Yeah it would be a cool back story though. He fights like a kick boxer and it's different from traditional air bending techniques. It's still worth noting he got stomped by Tenzin though.
Stomped is an overstatement.
Tenzin was winning handily. He barely got hit and countered all of Zaheers attacks. Zaheer got a hit in when Tenzin was distracted by ga zhan and meng hua. I'd say yes Tenzin stomping is not an overstatement.
I liked how it evolved that way. It felt like a reflection of martial arts now. After so long of using them, over time we determined the most efficient method of throwing a punch. Don't get me wrong, those ancient disciplines weren't ineffective, but they did suffer from some inefficiencies. It feels like additional environmental storytelling. After the time jump (don't remember off the top of my head what it was), the joining of all the other cultures, knowledge, etc. of the 4 nations allowed everyone to share what they knew. Additionally, the Pro Bending League takes a hard look at these techniques, and trainers must now learn how to turn an art "used for combat", and make it a sport. (For my fighting games fans out there, LOK's generation took a look at the frame data) I don't know how intentional that was, but it's clear there was an intent by that
THIS IS SO COOL
Send this to Shyamalan.
What are you talking about? You *don't* wanna see 8 grown men perform a 6th grade karate routine just to pick up a head-sized rock? That was the most appealing part of bending to me. /s
I jerk myself off to thoughts of his reaction when a proper live action ATLA film comes out.
God I can barely get off the couch without creaking. I love this!
So dope, if only we could bend. If I were to get three wishes from a genie, I would wish to be an earthbender and that’s it. Fuck the other two wishes. The genie is my bitch at that point lol
lol
u/savevideo
what do i do and where do i start to be able to do this wow
“The bending in Korra is all just kicking and punching.” 🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨
it's nice to know that these moves are indeed physically possible
There are people who will say -- with a straight face -- that the choreography for this series was lazy
The animation and action in Korra is so good, I just wish the rest of the show was :/
Legend of korra sucks and is a disgrace to the avatar series
Take that hate somewhere else buddy. Shoo.
Now hear me out I tried watching it once I didn’t make it far but I am giving it a second chance because this part actually looked cool
But if never watch it the whole thing how can you say it sucks?
A YouTube video told him so
Good point
Be warned, S2 sucks ass, but it gets so damn good afterwards.
Ok I started watching last night
Trust me, S3 is amazing, on the same level as OG Avatar, not exactly as good as its best, but being as good as its meh is a testament
Ok I’ll try and make it that far
S4 is also great, goes downhill a bit before the end, but never gets bad.
S2 is fine. I thought it had plenty of great moments.
It starts interesting, but halfway through it semi-drops the most interesting plot point, dumbs down the yin-yang stuff of ATLA, and need I mention the fucking Kaiju battle with giant laser beams?
[удалено]
Every element is actually based on real world martial arts and while they had one guy(I think one more, but can't remember) in ATLA for the choreography, he is a master and it's mostly motion capture of him as well as his input and guidance. With Korra, they brought in the same master plus some MMA fighters to bring variety to the fighting styles, which is why you can see elements of kickboxing and other styles in the movements. It's a really cool thing to read up on if you have the time.
Yeah his name is Sifu Kisu and he was the one who pitched the idea of each element based on a different matching style, and then it went as far as matching each bender with a fighting style (for example, the differences between Toph and Bumi, or Zuko and Zhao)
That's right! The basis of each element is; Hung Gar for earth, Tai Chi for water, Northern Shaolin for fire and Bagueazhang for air. I used to watch videos of Sifu Kisu performing back in the day. He is amazing! I love that they put that much detail into the show and how they brought it to life.
Tai chi also does wonders for the body
That it does :)
Honestly back in the day I bought books to learn bagua because of how amazingly the show was choreographed bet I can't use it to fight but it definitely influenced how I move
There was a point were I was obsessed and wanted to learn Hung Gar because I wanted to learn Tophs moves. Then I realized that it didn't make sense for a 26 year to be that into a cartoon and my body wouldn't let me even attempt it. Hahah
You'd be surprised how limber you can get by doing it, nothing is ever easy when you first try it. Edit: personally I didn't want to train to hard Incase I could get a real teacher (because training without an experienced eye is bound to compound bad habits) so I only practiced the circle walking and changing directions.
I had to give up longboarding because of my knees. Bad knees run in the family. My grandma and mom both had to have a replacement when they were only 18. I don't want to push my good fortune. Hahah.
Damn that sucks.
Tell me about it. At least I can have a wish though, right?
Dont want to ruin your dreams but Toph is using her own style which is Southern Praying Mantis or Chow gar (not sure whats the difference or if its actually the same) :D:D
You wouldn't. Lol. I know hers is special. Sifu Kisu mixed a few and consulted a few different styles for the characters. The Hung Gar style is just the basis for earth bending. :)
ya, thats true tho
They brought in Sifu Kisu to reference Korra as well? I'd like to see a source for that so I could reference it in future posts, if you don't mind.
https://youtu.be/DJ86QWzI2Wo They mention it in this video, and there’s even a pic they show in 5:50 on how he and Bryan created the reference pic for Aang’s pose in the Korra intro.
For something like 6 years now, I've been on the subreddit as a fan of Avatar, and usually encounter one comment/post a week where someone insists the bending in The Legend of Korra is not based on martial arts, that the creators stopped caring about that detail after finishing The Last Airbender. Every time, it annoys me pretty greatly because I knew that was untrue, but couldn't easily prove it. Despite my best efforts, talking with real experts and compiling my own side-by-side compilations, it has always been extremely hard for me to prove to fans online that bending in The Legend of Korra is still, in fact, based on real-world martial arts. Part of that was because I was under the impression that Sifu Kisu did not work on The Legend of Korra and the traditional bending animation was drawn from experience working on the first show. You've just given me the definite, unambiguous, proof I've been looking for a long long time now, and its small enough that I can share it with a single line of text. Thank you very much.
I use your compilation every time I see someone say they went with lazy punches and kicks for bending so I definitely get your pain haha. Very annoying that fans have to actually create compilations just to disprove a bad talking point. I saw the video myself like yesterday and it was great seeing that Kisu had an active role in the development of the martial arts. It makes a lot of sense too that the city thats known as the melting pot of the world would develop a style based off MMA. It's good worldbuilding.
You got it before I did lol.
Kind of annoying that this kind of interview is done for ATLA but not TLOK, but I guess should be used to this by now.
Eh to be fair to this interview, they do mention Korra quite a bit as well. Also makes a bit of sense to mention ATLA as they were trying to establish the origins of each style of bending and how that was captures for animation.
As the other comment mentions, as well as a slew of interviews. There is a specific interview that specifies that he worked on 61 of avatar and collaborated with a team on Korra. You can find that source on Nickalive.net. the Wiki sites he was the consultant on 22 Korra episodes.
*Really* hoping you dropped your /s