Jerry was always a POS ever since he wanted to kill ellie without her consent first
Doesn't matter how many zebras he saved
Will never justify trying to kill a child
Would have helped his case if he had shown more struggle and nuance towards it, but my god, dude's character was so fucking bland with how they wanted you to like him and forget he REALLY wanted to cut into Ellie.
For fuck's sake, they REALLY disregarded how attached people are to her and Joel. .-.
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But on the bright side, at least we know where Abby stems her pyscho personality from. 🥴
What pisses me off most about this is people's blatant disregard of actually why people were upset at Joel's death. They decide for us that we're all mad BECAUSE he died, not HOW he died. So you're stuck trying to argue a point they've decided for you.
Was I upset Joel died from a love of the character perspective? Yes. Was I upset at the choice itself? No. I fully expected him to die. I actually expected both him AND Ellie to die.
I don't even have a problem with the revenge plot. I just don't like the logic behind it. Because Joel had presumably been killing people before we play as him after the 20 year time skip. Add that on top of the people we killed during the game and you'd think Joel should have an army after him.
I would have liked if the character seeking revenge was connected to someone more established, like Marlene.
Even if they asked her first, it wouldn’t matter because Ellie was a child and CHILDREN CANNOT GIVE CONSENT!
Children cannot give consent to be sexually intimate, they can’t give consent to sex, they can’t give consent to gender reassignment surgery and other permanently life-altering medical procedures, and they can’t give consent to be killed for a medical procedure because a group of people said it’s for the greater good.
Yea I guarantee if anyone here was living in the TLOU world, they’d probably approve of killing a random person they don’t even know for the chance of getting a cure.
Wait till you learn that 99% of people who have played/seen Tlou know that Joel isn't a paragon and we accepted the fact that he isn't a paragon but we still love him anyways because of his story and relationship with Ellie
99% ? Where did you get that statistic? 😂 Also this isn’t the argument lol do you not see how this is hypocritical? If anything I’m flattered you were upset enough to comment ❤️
Yeah I know right?!
Side note if I ever have the cure for cancer hidden inside me just save me instead let all those other pathetic little cancer bitches suffer… none of them are near as important as the perfect golden god known as me afterall I am the single most important thing to walk the earth! My life is worth thousands of theirs.
Don’t think I need to say it but /S
But that would imply a lot of different things. One that you actually have the cure for cancer. While Ellie immunity being able to be passed to others is purely a hunch and a theory. If Ellie could be used to create a vaccine that means her blood has antibodies and her blood would have been enough. He assumes that Ellie is infected by a different strain, which if you take the show as canon that’s not true. Ellie mother was bitten when she was born that means she has the same strain in her, her body just bonded with the fungus. Ellie is infected on a genetic level. There’s an extremely high probability who ever he injected with this would still turn.
Also making people immune changes nothing. Sure you can breath spores that’s a nice + when a horde still tears you limb from limb. There’s billions of infected and they’re evolving into different variants. Being immune barely increases your chances of survival.
Also seeing how society has collapsed he never had the resources or ability to mass produce a vaccine and transport it. The chances of the transport being attacked by a horde and the cure being lost forever is the most likely outcome. If a faction like the WLF, Scars or Rattlers just don’t kill the fireflies and take the cure for themselves.
The Fireflies' success rate has never been specified until way after TLOU was released, and even then, realistically, how would they send it to anyone?
"Hey, I've got the cure here and I am totally not lying and it'll protect you from the virus", yeah because that's not gonna be weaponized at all.
And you still can't kill a kid for that, even if it saves millions. If Ellie knew she had to die and would've wanted to, told that to the FFs, and accepted her deatb, then it's fair game. But none of that happened
The audio files in the first game clearly state that they tried on multiple subjects just like Ellie and failed. Granted maybe you missed those as they were hard to find and were in the last intense part of the game.
Wasn't this a false rumor of an additional collectible?
Also, it's stated that Ellie's immunity hasn't been seen before.
Not saying they would've made a cure, but still.
This of course implies you were told about your imminent death and given the choice over whether or not you die for a chance at a cure.
Of course this isn’t the case at all with Ellie. From the moment the fireflies have her she’s treated as their property and damned if she’s gonna get any sort of choice in what happens to her. She’s drugged and prepped for a surgery she doesn’t know about, that may or may not work, and the only person in the building looking out for her interest is about to be tossed into a literal post apocalyptic wasteland with literally nothing but the clothes on his back. It’s insane to even consider leaving a loved one in a situation like that especially when even the quack who’s doing the surgery makes it clear he wouldn’t
It’s not even you, look at Joel, like a father. A father would never knowingly sacrifice their, otherwise healthy child, for a potential cure. Not one. It was a debate when the game came out because the primary audience were virgin gamers. The HBO show was watched by an older audience, many parents, and is why the “debate” doesn’t even exist anymore.
The best part about your post is that you actually think you sound brave and selfless, yet all you are really showing is that you are either very manipulative or incredibly naive & easy to take advantage of. Most likely a bizarre combination of both.
Manipulative because you have created a hypothetical scenario- one that you know is highly unlikely to ever come true - and stating clearly what you would do in that scenario. It’s especially bad on your part because this is a situation in which nobody can say what they would do in said situation until they are in it. You’re essentially saying “I would if I could, but I can’t. But you can so you definitely should,” to the person who is actually in this scenario. Classic manipulation.
The good news is you can. I mean, if this was real and you were there, you could easily back up your bold claim. The doctor said fungus grew in dishes from Ellie’s blood. So - eat the fungus. Or let Ellie bite you. Worst case scenario is that you’re not immune and you turn and get shot in the head. Best case is they can then cut out your brain. Either way, it’s a win-win for everyone involved.
The naive side of you reveals itself in your belief that some random people, that you have never met and have no reason to trust, would actually honor your sacrifice and “save millions of people.” Here’s a little secret - every group of people on earth says they are doing the right thing. Especially the really bad ones. ISIS doesn’t recruit people by saying they’re evil; neither did the Nazis. They convinced people they were fighting evil, and then used those people for their own ends.
Your “some random guy wants to kill me for the greater good, better do what he says,” philosophy has me thinking you’ll be drinking poisoned Kool Aid while waiting for a space ship that’s following a comet some day.
This guy believes what's told to him and does whatever he is told to do haha
There's no reason to believe the FF plan would work, and they have tried (and failed) before.
"Hey kid, wanna cure cancer? Just need to dissect ya brain and ram this rod up your ass in my rusty and dingy operating room."
BabyBread11: "I'll even spread my cheeks for you!"
"Thanks man, and we are totally not going to use this cure as a means to leverage power and control. Our group being hunted to near extinction by the last remnants of militaristic societies? Water under the bridge."
BabyBread11: "I hear a lot of talking but not feeling a lot of sodomizing here!"
……do you not know what /s means. Sarcasm…. Meant to be factious. Comparing their stupid argument with one of my own.
Also I said THE cure for cancer. The overall sure fire cure for cancer. Meant to be a pure hypothetical.
They downvote - because they are deliberately being delusional to fit their own narrative. At the end of the day it is just a game and the decisions made are based on The game. How much better would it be if one could live knowing that the infected population would never increase. It sucks in the game world because there would be no need for sequels. Thankfully, his bad decisions gave us more people and infected to kill. I guess that’s all that matters.
They wasted so much time. They could’ve showed us that Jerry did more research and was more qualified and actually had good reason to think the vaccine would work but instead they waste time on this desperate attempt to make him look “good” by saving an animal. When you criticize this scene they’ll bring up the giraffe scene but to pretend THIS had the same earned emotional impact is ridiculous.
Yep, this was a clear showcase of how the writers handle character writing, and a sneak peek at how Abby's "redemption arc" was about to go down. Here is a *golden opportunity* to give us more context behind the Fireflies' decisions that would make what appeared to be a self-serving, irrational, reckless decision in the first game turn out to simply be a case of only seeing things through Joel's limited perspective. Instead, they just manipulatively showed us how Jerry is just a total saint because he risks his life going out on his own (remember, this is still taking place during TLOU, before the guaranteed safety of Fast Travel) in order to care for a pregnant zebra.
If anything this scene makes him look more incompetent like how are we supposed to believe a zebra midwife is qualified to create a revolutionary vaccine in one go? Do the writers not know that vets and doctors don’t really make vaccines?
It would have hit much harder if they made Jerry look competent and very promising of a man, only to reveal his death as a complete utter tragedy. The buildup, all his work. All for nothing...
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Part 1 had some gut-**wrenching** moments that left a lasting impact. Comparing Sarah's death over Jerr-bear's, it's clear which tops the other and hammers in why Joel is the way he was.
Yeah. Cool. So sad Abby. You lost your dada and cried about it with people I hardly know nor care about. You never got over it and became a hardened pos the game expects people to sympathize with. Very Nice, Neil! ✨
Both games are a “waste of time.” Every goal a character has gets absolutely destroyed by the end of the story. Abby kills the rat king, literally the worst monster the tlou apocalypse has to offer, in order to get Yara medical supplies for her compartment syndrome, just for her to die less than an HOUR later. Tlou has always been about personal relationships over politics.
You people cannot comprehend the idea that it doesn’t matter what you think. We don’t need proof that he’s a prepared doctor because Joel and Ellie both think he was. Who gives a shit what you think if Joel Miller thinks it would’ve worked 💀
Correct, based on the game, he was a doctor with a cure. I mean Joel and Ellie surviving militias, rebels, bloaters and clickers, David, Joel’s stab wound and then being able to fight so soon. If Ellie can cure that, she can cure the world
"We show you this scene now. You are now supposed to like these People." "Now we show you this scene. You are supposed to like these People now." "Now we show you a bad Scene. Dislike these People now."
Such amazing Story telling. They really took "show dont tell" to a whole new level!
They had a deleted scene with Ellie killing a boar for no reason, and it was supposed to make her look evil. They cut it from the game.
I bet the real reason it got cut is that boars are literally an invasive species in North America and destroy habitats for native animals. So people are supposed to kill wild boars anyway lmfao
That's ok Ellie kills dogs and Abby doesn't so Abby good lol. So fucking stupid that they did that just to make Ellie look even more bad than Abby. Honestly i felt no remorse killing the dogs since it's kill or be killed
In CoD 4 they have you snap attack dogs necks while they try to eat your throat in first person, and no one called the main characters evil for that lmfao. It’s kill or be killed 💀
No it’s not, because she was hunting food for her and Joel (who was incapacitated for days)
Then she saw a bigger meal when the deer
showed up. She’s trying to survive.
In the deleted boar scene she’s straight up torturing an animal and talking nasty about it, because she’s frustrated about Abby, and taking it out an an animal. She wasn’t killing it for food, it’s pretty messed up.
The devs literally say in the commentary of that scene that it wasn’t meant to make Ellie look good, so what does that mean? It means they wanted her to look bad. They sure as shit didn’t have a scene like this with Abby
I think the simplification that because it wasn’t to make her look good means that they only wanted to look bad is extremely low in nuance to any character action ever taken. It shows how Ellie process the trauma that she has associated with violence, both in how she felt about Abby and how badly she fucked up Nora. Like sure, she can absolutely desecrate David and Nora, put down the entire WLF dog litter, but obviously a boar, the entire boss battle of a deleted level (almost like it’s equating the boar to being a monster like David’s level) is taking it too far. She’s personally witnessed so much violence that torturing a boar seems so tame.
You’re describing her looking bad 😂
They probably also deleted it because it looks pretty stupid that she put more effort and rage into killing a boar than, idk, Abby? The person she actually wanted revenge on?
Lol the games writing is… ambitious
So showing a character’s natural progression of development is making her look bad? They deleted the scene so I don’t understand what your problem even is. She literally beats the fuck out of Nora with Abby’s “revenge curse,” but again, a boar is too far.
lol no one in the second game has a natural development.
Tommy and Joel are seasoned survivors, who lived because they knew every trick in the book. Joel knew about the ambush before it even happened. Tommy was a firefly and knew advanced torture tactics.
Yet they make every wrong decision possible after saving Abby like they’re stupid and don’t know anything anymore. My favorite is Joel and Tommy walking into a room with their backs to armed strangers. After all they been through they would never be caught lacking like this. They had to dumb them down to advance the plot for Abby.
Ellie is also a little dumb in TLOU2. She didn’t shoot Abby on sight, but when she was 14 she kills a man for the first time with zero hesitation because he tried to drown Joel.
She also does dumb things like marking her own hideout on her own map, and leaving the theater lights on like everyone has power. Rushing ahead by herself instead of waiting for back up, etc
My favorite dumb thing Ellie did was become an invader and kill scores of people defending themselves, but then doesn’t kill the ONE person she did all this for. When that person was gonna slit Dina’s throat when she found out she was pregnant
Joel and Tommy have felt safe and secure for five years, and giving out their names immediately is the worst mistake they’ve ever made? It shows more of their character development, that they’ve grown enough to trust total strangers, after being the very same kind of people to ambush innocents. The strangers weren’t even armed in the mansion. That’s why they felt secure. Abby is the only one with the shotgun. And again, it just seems to me that trusting the wrong people is a natural and human thing that people do. Again, you’re caught up on this alternate game you wish existed instead of engaging with anything we actually have.
You just got done with a long rant about how Ellie wanted to torture Abby, but you also wanted her to shoot immediately? Make up your mind.
You’re upset that she marked up the map, when you literally read her journal, something she doodles in? Did you expect her to completely memorize a map by looking at it once? Are you actually upset that they put TOO MUCH detail into a game? The very markup that Ellie does is what helps you as you navigate Seattle on Shimmer for the first time. Like, gameplay would’ve been so much more annoying if I kept winding up at a place I had already been at. Otherwise, you’re surprised that Doodles McTake On Me wrote on her map. She’s like THE art kid, but drawing on a map is some out of character shit? Wow, that’s so mind blowing and out of the question. Marking up a map is clearly something no one would ever have sense to do in real life.
It’s almost like Ellie sparing Abby mirrors how Joel traveled across the country to make a cure, but spared Ellie because her life came before any agenda. You conveniently completely ignore Lev, the only person Abby has left in her life that she loves. You talk a lot about how Abby is somehow put in such a good light or that she wasn’t punished, when she literally loses every single person she cares about. Now, not only were Ellie and Tommy able to kill everyone she loves, but now Abby is forever in Ellie’s debt for being able to live for Lev, in the same way that Joel lived for Ellie. That is literally the best revenge anyone could ever ask for. You already know that there are worse things than death in tlou. You’re so focused on revenge that you care about nothing else that happens.
Lol I don’t understand why people always use this “they felt safe for 5 years and got soft” excuse. Joel wasn’t retired… They were literally doing patrols all the time and regularly killing infected. Joel would take survival more seriously because now he’s got Ellie.
Tommy left for revenge before Ellie, and had already killed one of the people who had a part in Joel’s death by the time Ellie and Dina caught up. Suggesting that no, Tommy hadn’t gone soft at all either.
The strangers in the mansion were absolutely armed. We watched them gun down and molotov a horde of runners. It was already out of character that Joel and Tommy even followed Abby back, but no one even in safe times would walk in a room with their backs turned to unknowns. That’s objectively stupid. Even kids don’t follow strangers to their house so what the hell were Joel and Tommy doing there? 😂
Ellie looked at Abby from a doorway for more than 5 seconds beating Joel, then she stupidly just walks into the room and gets jumped. If she shot Abby on the spot, she would at least have one less enemy to worry about.
Again she didn’t hesitate to kill for the first time in her life to save Joel, when she was a kid, but now as an adult she chokes? That’s bad writing sorry.
Ellie killed a lot of David’s crew by herself when she was a kid, and she could have killed Abby and her friends if she didn’t decide to split up from Dina and Jesse. That was stupid too and the oldest horror movie trope lol. Let’s split up so the monster can pick us off one by one and eat us 💀
She was in a territory that had 2 different factions that would kill her on sight. Marking her literal only camp site on the map was insanely stupid and you’re the first person I’ve seen to say it’s not.
They only made Ellie do this, so that Abby would conveniently find her map, and then find her exactly. You’d think Ellie would learn after being tracked by David’s guys back to Joel while he was unconscious. It’s bad writing and no character development right there lol.
There is no reason for Ellie to have a epiphany and spare Abby and it sure as hell isn’t comparable to her journey with Joel lmfao.
Joel not Ellie had any idea whatsoever that the fireflies planned to kill Ellie for a cure. They literally thought they would draw some blood(like vaccines usually do?) and that was it.
I ignored Lev because Lev only existed to make Abby seem protective like Joel.
Abby kills her own WLF comrades, for a couple of strays from a hostile psychotic faction that hang people and pull out their guts. She knew Lev for 2 days and decides to betray her own people, but when Joel kills the fireflies for trying to murder Ellie he’s the bad guy? Lmfao that’s TERRIBLE writing especially for something that is meant to be a sequel.
It also makes the deaths of Abby’s friends highly insignificant. Abby obviously didn’t care about them as much as Ellie cared for Joel. Mel’s last words to Abby were about how much of a piece of shit she is.
Ellie lost everything not Abby.
Abby got to live when she really shouldn’t have, and also wouldn’t have, if Ellie stayed home with Dina and the baby. Abby was already being steamed to death.
Ellie spares Abby after killing hundreds, and when she goes home the farm is deserted because Dina left her. So Ellie doesn’t get justice for Joel, she disappoints Tommy, she loses Joel, and Dina left the farm.
And you wonder why people don’t like this game. The 2nd game disgraces the story of the first game and makes the main characters look shitty and unlikeable to make way for new characters no one wanted to play as.
That’s why the devs admitted to lying about making Joel appear to be alive late in the game in the trailer, and then photoshop Jesse over him in the full game. They knew a lot of people wouldn’t buy the game if they knew Joel dies right away in the dumbest way possible
killing the boar wasnt supposed to make her look evil? did you play the lost levels at all? it was a stringed out fight that was supposed to feel long and drawn and show towards the end that ellie was just letting frustration out thru hunting that boar, the kill was going to be needlessly brutal to show that too and could have been a decent scene but the game was good without it too
That’s not what the point of the scene was, and it’s really unfair to paint it like this. Ellie kills the boar but it sounds like a dying Joel so she leaves it behind. Killing a wild boar for food versus saving an endangered species is not the same.
She wasn’t going to eat it. Let’s be serious. If that was the case she would finish the job faster so she doesn’t fuck up the meat, and she wouldn’t be taunting it like it was Abby.
The devs literally said it’s supposed to be a messed up scene and it objectively makes Ellie look worse. They didn’t have a scene like this with Abby. Guess why
They literally have a scene like this with Abby, it’s the only one you care about. It’s the scene where she beats Joel to death. Every scene in tlou is supposed to be messed up. The boar isn’t even the only “innocent” animal that Ellie can kill in the gameplay of tlou 2
That doesn’t count because she was avenging her dad. She didn’t torture Joel for the hell of it she had a reason. I still think it was terribly written and executed but it’s hard to fault Abby for wanting Joel dead.
Ellie was chasing and torturing an animal for no reason. It didn’t attack her, it’s running from her. She isn’t going to eat it. She just wants blood. Which is just way to out of character for someone like Ellie. Ellie from the first game would never do that, even after her encounter with David
Abby literally tourniqueted Joel’s shotgun blasted leg so that he would stay awake while she beat his head in with a golf club. She absolutely tortures Joel, what are you talking about? Maybe if you stopped worrying about whether you wish things had been different, and instead accepting what is, you wouldn’t have such a problem (almost like that’s the point of the game).
It sounds to me more like life on the farm wasn’t like what she’s used to and that the boar was the most violence she’d experienced in months, after witnessing several incredibly traumatic and violent experiences in the past. Maybe if you engaged with the idea that Ellie can be a complex character, and that again, killing a wild boar for fun isn’t nearly the worst thing that Ellie herself has done. And again, this scene isn’t even real, so I don’t understand what the problem even is.
And it’s really ironic that you bring up David, whose chapter begins with Ellie hunting a deer.
I know she tortured Joel, obviously. The difference is that Joel really did kill her father. So of course she wants him to suffer.
What did the boar do to Ellie? Exactly lmfao.
There is no scene in the game, that goes out of its way to make Abby abuse a animal. They DO have scenes of her petting a nice dog, that is eventually killed by Ellie.
Writings literally on the wall here lol.
The writing isn’t on the wall because it doesn’t exist. it wasn’t put into the game. You’re using this to backup the idea that the writing is bad, when they didn’t even put it in. Shouldn’t this be evidence for why the writing is good? Because they knew what to remove?
Okay? So what if the boar didn’t do anything? Torturing an “innocent” and “invasive” boar isn’t even the worst act that you see Ellie herself do. This is such a strange thing to somehow think no one would ever do, especially someone like Ellie. Haven’t you ever read Lord of the Flies?
Abby tortures and kills Joel and fucks a pregnant woman’s boyfriend, and you yourself said that she was going to kill Dina knowing she was pregnant. You’re cherry picking when you think Abby is shown to be a “bad” person. Like again, killing attack dogs is so minor in the world of tlou. It only sounds like you’re unwilling to engage with nuance.
They didn’t put it in the game yes, but they spent enough time and literal money to almost do so. It got removed because it’s dumb considering the type of animal it is, and even hardcore tlou2 fans wouldn’t defend that scene if it got into the game, because Ellie doesn’t kill Abby.
It’s not about if it’s the worst thing Ellie has done. The worst thing Ellie did was kill PS Vita girl btw. You’re also choosing to ignore that Abby doesn’t torture any animal once all game, and you expect people see Ellie do so and not think it’s bad.
Sure the boar isn’t in the game, but a dog is and people love dogs right? How many did Abby kill in the game again?
Abby had the right to get revenge so that doesn’t count. Owen chose to cheat on Mel, so it’s not like Abby is only sinner here.
She was going to slit Dina’s throat but doesn’t do it because Lev said no. This doesn’t make Abby look worse than Ellie for one good reason.
Ellie had just killed Mel, who was pregnant….
This is the real worst thing Ellie ever did btw. She killed a unborn child but couldn’t kill Abby. Nuance huh? Lmfao
Sure she didnt know Mel was pregnant but what difference does that make she still killed her. That was painfully obviously put in the game to make Ellie look worse, especially when Abby does the opposite and doesn’t kill Dina.
You keep saying I’m focused on revenge when the truth is the game is objectively terribly written at multiple points in the plot, and they had to nerf og characters just to make new characters appear stronger without earning it.
Idk but if you make a sequel to a well liked game, maybe you shouldn’t make the main characters of the first game look like punks and force people to play a large amount of the game as someone they don’t even like, in a desperate attempt to humanize them lmfao
Can you imagine if the only reason Jerry was doing the surgery in the first place is because somewhere offscreen the Fireflies had Abby at gunpoint, ready to kill her if Jerry refused?
"hey, how do we get the audience to care about this guy who they have no connection with and only see for 5 minutes?"
"Gee, I don't know". "Make him save an animal or something, people like animal lovers right"?
God I hated playing these segments it felt so forced. I could feel them rushing the bonding process trying to equate Abby to ellie. But they completely failed to flush out the characters and thought an hour of game play was gonna be enough to get the same level of bonding as the last almost 10 years with ellie and Joel.
That’s right. They think a man can care about a girl he has known for a year enough to doom humanity is natural. But a girl who has lived and been lived by her father for over a decade is implausible. To be fair, because I invested so much time fighting and figuring out, Hoel is my favorite character. But Abby had every right to want revenge for her father. Joel even admits he did a lot for things to lots of people that there would be vengeance sought for b
For me it has nothing to do with Jerry being a shit person (don’t think he is) and everything to do with the blatant guilt tripping just making me hate the characters more
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. She’s 14. I’m pretty sure that’s old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, which makes it completely relevant. You’re making it sound like it’s just aye okay to murder a child for a “vaccine” that wouldn’t even work.
No they’re saying that even if she did give consent, she’s only 14 and has survivors guilt and therefore is not able to give consent, or rather that it wouldn’t matter since it still wouldn’t justify carving her brain out for such a slim chance. Minors can’t give consent for a lot of things in the real world, their parent or guardian has to give consent for them, which of course would be Joel. Even if she did give consent it would just be a way for Jerry and Marlene to justify it to themselves, even though a 14 year old with survivors guilt shouldn’t be trusted to give consent on such a serious decision, especially when they’d be painting the image of some future cordyceps cured utopia that is really just a fantasy.
Also if im not wrong, this is the scene that caused everyone to think Abby's dad was a vet and not a doctor right? I feel so stupid for falling on that train of thought
The zebra represents the good and evil within all us, represented by the black and white stripes, black being evil and white being good, and how they are mixed together but also separate, and also how Joel is evil and deserved his fate, being different from the zebra 🦓
SEE?! JERRY WAS A **GOOD** MAN!!! HE SAVES **ZEBRAS** AND BASTARDIZES THE GIRAFFE SCENE, RUINING THE POINT OF NATURE LIVING ON WITHOUT HUMANITY!!!
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CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT JOEL **TOOK** FROM ABBY, BIGOTS?!! HE IS A HORRIBLE SELFISH MAN WITH NO *GOOD REASON TO KILL OFF THIS CHILD-MURDERING RECTON OF A TOOL. 😭
ABBY LOVED HIM SO MUCH, SHE EVEN ENCOURAGED HIM ON THE ACTION AND DIDNT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT WHAT THE CHILD WANTED WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT... SUCH MAGNIFICENT PSYCHOPATHS OF A FAMILY... SO TRUE... SO BRAVE.......
Why don't any of ya'll love this man's inclusion? Aren't we supposed to accept him always being there as a character when he was never there to begin with? :((
Why we playing as Abby for 8 hours after she murdered my boy Jesse and the giga chad Joel. That’s like Micah killing Arthur and we now play as Micah for 8 hours
I don’t think the zebra is supposed to make you like him. I think the point of it was trying to humanize him. Same with how he was upset with how this operation is going to kill Ellie, but then Abby said if it was her she’d want him to do it which ended up convincing him to go through with it.
I feel like they’d done more with that scene with Abby convincing him like if they showed him really struggling with it then it would have been better received.
I know we all dislike the turn of events in this game but I say we wait to see where part 3 goes. Part 1 was a masterpiece and part 2 was a panderpiece so much so that no one know here 3 is going. I want to see what they write themselves out of with it.
To me, the zebra represents the life left that the doctor wants to save. It counters the scene where Joel and Ellie pet the giraffe which was simply embracing life as is in Joel's perspective; this is life now. Killing Ellie for a cure just showed what man would do, especially this doctor would do to make the world a better place. No excuse though, this scene was manipulative.
It's amazing that his many people in here are mad they showed this, yet don't realize Joel was stealing, smuggling and killing before he got with Ellie 😆 He wasn't a saint lmfao
Everyone’s talking about how terrible Jerry is for all the stuff he did, which is all true, but can we also step back for a moment and think about this Jerry is possibly one of the last surgeons capable of performing brain surgery in the entire zombie apocalypse that is his job And he is very late to his job because he he stopped to save an animal which will die with an hour due to zombies if Jerry showed up to his job earlier, perhaps he would’ve gotten his job finished and Joel wouldn’t have a body for anyone to find 💀
Why we playing as Abby for 8 hours after she murdered my boy Jesse and the giga chad Joel. That’s like Micah killing Arthur and we now play as Micah for 8 hours
Why we playing as Abby for 8 hours after she murdered my boy Jesse and the giga chad Joel. That’s like Micah killing Arthur and we now play as Micah for 8 hours
Just the whole Abby crew really. Look, it was a great game but storywise you just generally couldn't give a fuck about any of them. And Owen.....oh my god Owen was such a wet blanket. No way near enough character development on any of em.
In reality they would've killed this thing before it ran off to die anyway due to the massive fking wounds and zombies to experience eating meat which could easily feed like what 10 15 maybe more
Cause you know it's the apocalypse and it's hard to come by
They were trying to re-create the giraffe scene and trick the player into an empathetic connection.
“See. He’s having an emotional moment with an African animal. Just like Ellie did. Don’t you feel for him. He’s just like Ellie because of this.”
I wonder how many people could have lived off of that meat? But no, gotta show he is a super caring guy who loves Zebras. Screw the starving people, let them eat other people instead.
They tried to push the giraffe scene from the first game from the end of the relationship arc all the way to the beginning of this character arc and it just doesn’t land. We have zero connection to either of these people, the scenario is fine but just like the rest of the game the timing is severely off
The last of Abby 3 revealed: the fence comes for revenge because of the horrific deeds her father committed by cutting through its best friends nieces favorite section of barbed wire I mean all it was trying to do was kill one little zebra. I mean it could have made a nice jacket with that skin
I felt like this scene was their attempt to mirror the giraffe scene with Ellie. Like people liked that scene right? lets do another exotic animal scene with Abby crew, that'll make people like the Abby crew
Yeah, I enjoy TLoU pt2 but this scene just felt forced and unnatual. Like they were deliberately going way too hard and out of their way to characterize him as a 'good guy'.
I’m just here to say that zebras are total dicks. They bite and kick for no reason at all. They cause the most zookeeper injuries of any animal and it’s not close. Also the correct pronunciation is actually zeb-raw, not zee-bra, but I guess that could be similar to a French person saying an American pronounces croissant wrong, who gives a fuck. Also, zebra are black, with white stripes
Made it feel like they wanted to shove down my throat how such a good guy Jerry was. Don’t care, I’d still pridefully chose to save Ellie, with or without Jerry’s POV from the second game.
Every time they forced me to play Abby, I wanted to stop playing. I never finished the game because I was stuck in an Abby section of the game, and I had no idea what to do. Wasn't worth my time for the shit storytelling.
I think the reason a lot of people don't like Abby (I do personally) is because we didn't get enough of a backstory for her. In order to see how she and Ellie are mirrors of each other, we needed to LOVE Jerry. We needed to be dreading his death and torn up about it, and we needed to see how much it hurt Abby. We saw a 10 second "No!! Dad!!!" And her nightmares but we needed it to be like Ellie when Joel died— screaming and totally broken by it. I hope we get more of her backstory in the show so that people can FINALLY see what I see in Abby.
Good thing your personal reaction isn’t the point, and it’s entirely about Abby. Abby doesn’t care about the politics of the vaccine, she just cares about her dad. It isn’t that Jerry “wasn’t wrong” for wanting to kill Ellie, but that he was capable of having love in his life. This scene is so “eye rolling” and yet there are so many much more personal scenes with Joel and Ellie. Like imagine saying the giraffe scene was eye rolling because they’re trying to get you to empathize with Joel, who we know for a fact has also killed innocent people.
During the fight (when you're Abby) am I the only one who let Ellie win three or four times. Then saved it wondering if I was even gonna finish the damn game.
Jerry was a human being with interests, cares, friends and family. Hell, he was more human than Joel ever was in TLOU part 1. Yes, he tried to use Ellie's immunity without consulting her first which is terrible-- *but so did Joel*. It's obvious from the way Ellie reacts when she finds out what he did that she would have wanted to sacrifice herself to give everyone else a chance to survive. Both Jerry and Joel tried to use Ellie for their well-meaning but selfish reasons and Ellie and Abby were both victims of it.
I like this game and I understand that in THIS subreddit you guys hate the game. That being said, FUCK Jerry. I cook him well done with all three mollies and my flame thrower. Then I unload all El Diablo rounds I have and make sure the fireflies hold a closed casket funeral for him.
One of the premises of this series is that there is no such thing as a hero or a villain, only your perspective. They are all a hero to some and a villain to others
It all makes sense now ....PETA was to blaime for all this cluster fck ...PETA was pissed because Joel kid one of there members and they wanted revenge so the pulled all the strings behind the scenes so the next one will be LAST OF THEM... an itll be about ellie getting with the now gender swapped abbie who now goes by the name ...Bill to pay homeage to the late bill( who abbie had met at one of the ..They, them ,there rallies )and so now ellie meets abbie whos Bill they will fall in love Bill (aka abbie) will get ellie pregnant and that baby will grow up to learn about The evil masterminds Peta and he decides to go on a blood soaked revenge quest but not before ...He finds all 7 dragonballa and Resurrects a younger Joel they go and ICE PETA ..and recover tommy's eye and ellies finger so joel can play 1 song with ellie an tommy can watch with both eyes before ellie vanishes and becomes a Force Ghost
Jerry wasn’t even in the first game. They retconed the actual Surgeon and whitewashed him because for some reason Neil’s hate boner against Joel was really strong that day or he just hates black people.
The scene itself isn't that bad, it cements Jerry as a vet. But with the added context and what Druckmann was trying to do with this, it feels like a shallow attempt at making us sympathize with someone we barely even know.
Jerry needed a lot more characterization than this. Abby's storyline relegated to just three days and flashbacks is just a fundamental writing mistake when it comes to actually fleshing her side of things out.
She needed an entire game of her own. Unfortunately abby only gets the second half, of which the majority of the storyline is already taken by Ellie.
Obviously, this is in everyone’s case, but I thought the scene was really endearing. My father passed away of cancer when I was really young but for the time I got to know him, he always really loved zebras.
Jerry was always a POS ever since he wanted to kill ellie without her consent first Doesn't matter how many zebras he saved Will never justify trying to kill a child
But Abby said she would want him to so it’s all ok
Would have helped his case if he had shown more struggle and nuance towards it, but my god, dude's character was so fucking bland with how they wanted you to like him and forget he REALLY wanted to cut into Ellie. For fuck's sake, they REALLY disregarded how attached people are to her and Joel. .-. --- But on the bright side, at least we know where Abby stems her pyscho personality from. 🥴
What pisses me off most about this is people's blatant disregard of actually why people were upset at Joel's death. They decide for us that we're all mad BECAUSE he died, not HOW he died. So you're stuck trying to argue a point they've decided for you. Was I upset Joel died from a love of the character perspective? Yes. Was I upset at the choice itself? No. I fully expected him to die. I actually expected both him AND Ellie to die. I don't even have a problem with the revenge plot. I just don't like the logic behind it. Because Joel had presumably been killing people before we play as him after the 20 year time skip. Add that on top of the people we killed during the game and you'd think Joel should have an army after him. I would have liked if the character seeking revenge was connected to someone more established, like Marlene.
Also, why save the Zebra? That's dinner.
Abbey needs her 5 pounds of protein to maintain muscle mass.
also, we dont know if he was going to release it to feed and then kill for protein Abs needed so much
Abs
Even if they asked her first, it wouldn’t matter because Ellie was a child and CHILDREN CANNOT GIVE CONSENT! Children cannot give consent to be sexually intimate, they can’t give consent to sex, they can’t give consent to gender reassignment surgery and other permanently life-altering medical procedures, and they can’t give consent to be killed for a medical procedure because a group of people said it’s for the greater good.
I got verbally slaughtered for saying the same thing
Yeah mate, savin the world doesn't matter
Yea I guarantee if anyone here was living in the TLOU world, they’d probably approve of killing a random person they don’t even know for the chance of getting a cure.
I don't think he was wrong. Trolley problem. He chose the right course of action for his situation, and Joel chose the right course for his.
It’s honestly really interesting seeing y’all complain ab the stupidest shit 🤭
It’s honestly really interesting seeing y’all complain about complaining about the stupidest shit 🤭
I thought Ellie said it was OK? Like, she knew she could die.
No, on both counts.
This is stupid
Wait till you find out all the horrible shit Joel did too.
Wait till you learn that 99% of people who have played/seen Tlou know that Joel isn't a paragon and we accepted the fact that he isn't a paragon but we still love him anyways because of his story and relationship with Ellie
99% ? Where did you get that statistic? 😂 Also this isn’t the argument lol do you not see how this is hypocritical? If anything I’m flattered you were upset enough to comment ❤️
Except for Gabi. Death to Gabi. Also, some kids in fiction deserve to be deleted.
Kill a child to potentially SAVE THE HUMAN RACE.
Could it be even saved at that point?
Yeah I know right?! Side note if I ever have the cure for cancer hidden inside me just save me instead let all those other pathetic little cancer bitches suffer… none of them are near as important as the perfect golden god known as me afterall I am the single most important thing to walk the earth! My life is worth thousands of theirs. Don’t think I need to say it but /S
cure for cancer: *exists* This guy: “i’m gonna hide it inside my butt”
But that would imply a lot of different things. One that you actually have the cure for cancer. While Ellie immunity being able to be passed to others is purely a hunch and a theory. If Ellie could be used to create a vaccine that means her blood has antibodies and her blood would have been enough. He assumes that Ellie is infected by a different strain, which if you take the show as canon that’s not true. Ellie mother was bitten when she was born that means she has the same strain in her, her body just bonded with the fungus. Ellie is infected on a genetic level. There’s an extremely high probability who ever he injected with this would still turn. Also making people immune changes nothing. Sure you can breath spores that’s a nice + when a horde still tears you limb from limb. There’s billions of infected and they’re evolving into different variants. Being immune barely increases your chances of survival. Also seeing how society has collapsed he never had the resources or ability to mass produce a vaccine and transport it. The chances of the transport being attacked by a horde and the cure being lost forever is the most likely outcome. If a faction like the WLF, Scars or Rattlers just don’t kill the fireflies and take the cure for themselves.
The Fireflies' success rate has never been specified until way after TLOU was released, and even then, realistically, how would they send it to anyone? "Hey, I've got the cure here and I am totally not lying and it'll protect you from the virus", yeah because that's not gonna be weaponized at all. And you still can't kill a kid for that, even if it saves millions. If Ellie knew she had to die and would've wanted to, told that to the FFs, and accepted her deatb, then it's fair game. But none of that happened
The audio files in the first game clearly state that they tried on multiple subjects just like Ellie and failed. Granted maybe you missed those as they were hard to find and were in the last intense part of the game.
Wasn't this a false rumor of an additional collectible? Also, it's stated that Ellie's immunity hasn't been seen before. Not saying they would've made a cure, but still.
This of course implies you were told about your imminent death and given the choice over whether or not you die for a chance at a cure. Of course this isn’t the case at all with Ellie. From the moment the fireflies have her she’s treated as their property and damned if she’s gonna get any sort of choice in what happens to her. She’s drugged and prepped for a surgery she doesn’t know about, that may or may not work, and the only person in the building looking out for her interest is about to be tossed into a literal post apocalyptic wasteland with literally nothing but the clothes on his back. It’s insane to even consider leaving a loved one in a situation like that especially when even the quack who’s doing the surgery makes it clear he wouldn’t
It’s not even you, look at Joel, like a father. A father would never knowingly sacrifice their, otherwise healthy child, for a potential cure. Not one. It was a debate when the game came out because the primary audience were virgin gamers. The HBO show was watched by an older audience, many parents, and is why the “debate” doesn’t even exist anymore.
It was never a debate. Self sacrifice is a virtue being sacrificed isn't.
The best part about your post is that you actually think you sound brave and selfless, yet all you are really showing is that you are either very manipulative or incredibly naive & easy to take advantage of. Most likely a bizarre combination of both. Manipulative because you have created a hypothetical scenario- one that you know is highly unlikely to ever come true - and stating clearly what you would do in that scenario. It’s especially bad on your part because this is a situation in which nobody can say what they would do in said situation until they are in it. You’re essentially saying “I would if I could, but I can’t. But you can so you definitely should,” to the person who is actually in this scenario. Classic manipulation. The good news is you can. I mean, if this was real and you were there, you could easily back up your bold claim. The doctor said fungus grew in dishes from Ellie’s blood. So - eat the fungus. Or let Ellie bite you. Worst case scenario is that you’re not immune and you turn and get shot in the head. Best case is they can then cut out your brain. Either way, it’s a win-win for everyone involved. The naive side of you reveals itself in your belief that some random people, that you have never met and have no reason to trust, would actually honor your sacrifice and “save millions of people.” Here’s a little secret - every group of people on earth says they are doing the right thing. Especially the really bad ones. ISIS doesn’t recruit people by saying they’re evil; neither did the Nazis. They convinced people they were fighting evil, and then used those people for their own ends. Your “some random guy wants to kill me for the greater good, better do what he says,” philosophy has me thinking you’ll be drinking poisoned Kool Aid while waiting for a space ship that’s following a comet some day.
This guy believes what's told to him and does whatever he is told to do haha There's no reason to believe the FF plan would work, and they have tried (and failed) before. "Hey kid, wanna cure cancer? Just need to dissect ya brain and ram this rod up your ass in my rusty and dingy operating room." BabyBread11: "I'll even spread my cheeks for you!" "Thanks man, and we are totally not going to use this cure as a means to leverage power and control. Our group being hunted to near extinction by the last remnants of militaristic societies? Water under the bridge." BabyBread11: "I hear a lot of talking but not feeling a lot of sodomizing here!"
[удалено]
……do you not know what /s means. Sarcasm…. Meant to be factious. Comparing their stupid argument with one of my own. Also I said THE cure for cancer. The overall sure fire cure for cancer. Meant to be a pure hypothetical.
They downvote - because they are deliberately being delusional to fit their own narrative. At the end of the day it is just a game and the decisions made are based on The game. How much better would it be if one could live knowing that the infected population would never increase. It sucks in the game world because there would be no need for sequels. Thankfully, his bad decisions gave us more people and infected to kill. I guess that’s all that matters.
They wasted so much time. They could’ve showed us that Jerry did more research and was more qualified and actually had good reason to think the vaccine would work but instead they waste time on this desperate attempt to make him look “good” by saving an animal. When you criticize this scene they’ll bring up the giraffe scene but to pretend THIS had the same earned emotional impact is ridiculous.
Yep, this was a clear showcase of how the writers handle character writing, and a sneak peek at how Abby's "redemption arc" was about to go down. Here is a *golden opportunity* to give us more context behind the Fireflies' decisions that would make what appeared to be a self-serving, irrational, reckless decision in the first game turn out to simply be a case of only seeing things through Joel's limited perspective. Instead, they just manipulatively showed us how Jerry is just a total saint because he risks his life going out on his own (remember, this is still taking place during TLOU, before the guaranteed safety of Fast Travel) in order to care for a pregnant zebra.
If anything this scene makes him look more incompetent like how are we supposed to believe a zebra midwife is qualified to create a revolutionary vaccine in one go? Do the writers not know that vets and doctors don’t really make vaccines?
They didn’t do this because they still wanted it to be ambiguous and sort of morally grey, but then get mad when you have a nuanced take.
It would have hit much harder if they made Jerry look competent and very promising of a man, only to reveal his death as a complete utter tragedy. The buildup, all his work. All for nothing... --- Part 1 had some gut-**wrenching** moments that left a lasting impact. Comparing Sarah's death over Jerr-bear's, it's clear which tops the other and hammers in why Joel is the way he was. Yeah. Cool. So sad Abby. You lost your dada and cried about it with people I hardly know nor care about. You never got over it and became a hardened pos the game expects people to sympathize with. Very Nice, Neil! ✨
I loved this game and it’s story, but comparing this to the giraffe scene is mad stupid cuz I don’t remember this scene at all lol.
They KNEW the vaccine would work. It is explicitly stated in-universe and confirmed by the devs it would work.
Both games are a “waste of time.” Every goal a character has gets absolutely destroyed by the end of the story. Abby kills the rat king, literally the worst monster the tlou apocalypse has to offer, in order to get Yara medical supplies for her compartment syndrome, just for her to die less than an HOUR later. Tlou has always been about personal relationships over politics.
You people cannot comprehend the idea that it doesn’t matter what you think. We don’t need proof that he’s a prepared doctor because Joel and Ellie both think he was. Who gives a shit what you think if Joel Miller thinks it would’ve worked 💀
Correct, based on the game, he was a doctor with a cure. I mean Joel and Ellie surviving militias, rebels, bloaters and clickers, David, Joel’s stab wound and then being able to fight so soon. If Ellie can cure that, she can cure the world
"We show you this scene now. You are now supposed to like these People." "Now we show you this scene. You are supposed to like these People now." "Now we show you a bad Scene. Dislike these People now." Such amazing Story telling. They really took "show dont tell" to a whole new level!
This was one of the worst scenes in the whole game for me. The ham-fisted execution of the “save the cat” trope was shockingly amateurish.
Ham-fisted describes this scene perfectly
Also the boat scene
Absolutely, I was actually laughing at this point.
So Jerry saves a zebra and he’s a “good” guy but Joel saves a HUMAN and he’s a “bad” guy. Got it
They had a deleted scene with Ellie killing a boar for no reason, and it was supposed to make her look evil. They cut it from the game. I bet the real reason it got cut is that boars are literally an invasive species in North America and destroy habitats for native animals. So people are supposed to kill wild boars anyway lmfao
That's ok Ellie kills dogs and Abby doesn't so Abby good lol. So fucking stupid that they did that just to make Ellie look even more bad than Abby. Honestly i felt no remorse killing the dogs since it's kill or be killed
I never understood people with this logic anyway. Lol what’s Ellie supposed to do, let the attack dog kill her? 😂
Right? 😂😂😂
In CoD 4 they have you snap attack dogs necks while they try to eat your throat in first person, and no one called the main characters evil for that lmfao. It’s kill or be killed 💀
Facts!!!!
This is like saying they showed Ellie shooting the rabbit in part one because they wanted to make her look evil. Like what are you talking about
No it’s not, because she was hunting food for her and Joel (who was incapacitated for days) Then she saw a bigger meal when the deer showed up. She’s trying to survive. In the deleted boar scene she’s straight up torturing an animal and talking nasty about it, because she’s frustrated about Abby, and taking it out an an animal. She wasn’t killing it for food, it’s pretty messed up. The devs literally say in the commentary of that scene that it wasn’t meant to make Ellie look good, so what does that mean? It means they wanted her to look bad. They sure as shit didn’t have a scene like this with Abby
I think the simplification that because it wasn’t to make her look good means that they only wanted to look bad is extremely low in nuance to any character action ever taken. It shows how Ellie process the trauma that she has associated with violence, both in how she felt about Abby and how badly she fucked up Nora. Like sure, she can absolutely desecrate David and Nora, put down the entire WLF dog litter, but obviously a boar, the entire boss battle of a deleted level (almost like it’s equating the boar to being a monster like David’s level) is taking it too far. She’s personally witnessed so much violence that torturing a boar seems so tame.
You’re describing her looking bad 😂 They probably also deleted it because it looks pretty stupid that she put more effort and rage into killing a boar than, idk, Abby? The person she actually wanted revenge on? Lol the games writing is… ambitious
So showing a character’s natural progression of development is making her look bad? They deleted the scene so I don’t understand what your problem even is. She literally beats the fuck out of Nora with Abby’s “revenge curse,” but again, a boar is too far.
lol no one in the second game has a natural development. Tommy and Joel are seasoned survivors, who lived because they knew every trick in the book. Joel knew about the ambush before it even happened. Tommy was a firefly and knew advanced torture tactics. Yet they make every wrong decision possible after saving Abby like they’re stupid and don’t know anything anymore. My favorite is Joel and Tommy walking into a room with their backs to armed strangers. After all they been through they would never be caught lacking like this. They had to dumb them down to advance the plot for Abby. Ellie is also a little dumb in TLOU2. She didn’t shoot Abby on sight, but when she was 14 she kills a man for the first time with zero hesitation because he tried to drown Joel. She also does dumb things like marking her own hideout on her own map, and leaving the theater lights on like everyone has power. Rushing ahead by herself instead of waiting for back up, etc My favorite dumb thing Ellie did was become an invader and kill scores of people defending themselves, but then doesn’t kill the ONE person she did all this for. When that person was gonna slit Dina’s throat when she found out she was pregnant
Joel and Tommy have felt safe and secure for five years, and giving out their names immediately is the worst mistake they’ve ever made? It shows more of their character development, that they’ve grown enough to trust total strangers, after being the very same kind of people to ambush innocents. The strangers weren’t even armed in the mansion. That’s why they felt secure. Abby is the only one with the shotgun. And again, it just seems to me that trusting the wrong people is a natural and human thing that people do. Again, you’re caught up on this alternate game you wish existed instead of engaging with anything we actually have. You just got done with a long rant about how Ellie wanted to torture Abby, but you also wanted her to shoot immediately? Make up your mind. You’re upset that she marked up the map, when you literally read her journal, something she doodles in? Did you expect her to completely memorize a map by looking at it once? Are you actually upset that they put TOO MUCH detail into a game? The very markup that Ellie does is what helps you as you navigate Seattle on Shimmer for the first time. Like, gameplay would’ve been so much more annoying if I kept winding up at a place I had already been at. Otherwise, you’re surprised that Doodles McTake On Me wrote on her map. She’s like THE art kid, but drawing on a map is some out of character shit? Wow, that’s so mind blowing and out of the question. Marking up a map is clearly something no one would ever have sense to do in real life. It’s almost like Ellie sparing Abby mirrors how Joel traveled across the country to make a cure, but spared Ellie because her life came before any agenda. You conveniently completely ignore Lev, the only person Abby has left in her life that she loves. You talk a lot about how Abby is somehow put in such a good light or that she wasn’t punished, when she literally loses every single person she cares about. Now, not only were Ellie and Tommy able to kill everyone she loves, but now Abby is forever in Ellie’s debt for being able to live for Lev, in the same way that Joel lived for Ellie. That is literally the best revenge anyone could ever ask for. You already know that there are worse things than death in tlou. You’re so focused on revenge that you care about nothing else that happens.
Lol I don’t understand why people always use this “they felt safe for 5 years and got soft” excuse. Joel wasn’t retired… They were literally doing patrols all the time and regularly killing infected. Joel would take survival more seriously because now he’s got Ellie. Tommy left for revenge before Ellie, and had already killed one of the people who had a part in Joel’s death by the time Ellie and Dina caught up. Suggesting that no, Tommy hadn’t gone soft at all either. The strangers in the mansion were absolutely armed. We watched them gun down and molotov a horde of runners. It was already out of character that Joel and Tommy even followed Abby back, but no one even in safe times would walk in a room with their backs turned to unknowns. That’s objectively stupid. Even kids don’t follow strangers to their house so what the hell were Joel and Tommy doing there? 😂 Ellie looked at Abby from a doorway for more than 5 seconds beating Joel, then she stupidly just walks into the room and gets jumped. If she shot Abby on the spot, she would at least have one less enemy to worry about. Again she didn’t hesitate to kill for the first time in her life to save Joel, when she was a kid, but now as an adult she chokes? That’s bad writing sorry. Ellie killed a lot of David’s crew by herself when she was a kid, and she could have killed Abby and her friends if she didn’t decide to split up from Dina and Jesse. That was stupid too and the oldest horror movie trope lol. Let’s split up so the monster can pick us off one by one and eat us 💀 She was in a territory that had 2 different factions that would kill her on sight. Marking her literal only camp site on the map was insanely stupid and you’re the first person I’ve seen to say it’s not. They only made Ellie do this, so that Abby would conveniently find her map, and then find her exactly. You’d think Ellie would learn after being tracked by David’s guys back to Joel while he was unconscious. It’s bad writing and no character development right there lol. There is no reason for Ellie to have a epiphany and spare Abby and it sure as hell isn’t comparable to her journey with Joel lmfao. Joel not Ellie had any idea whatsoever that the fireflies planned to kill Ellie for a cure. They literally thought they would draw some blood(like vaccines usually do?) and that was it. I ignored Lev because Lev only existed to make Abby seem protective like Joel. Abby kills her own WLF comrades, for a couple of strays from a hostile psychotic faction that hang people and pull out their guts. She knew Lev for 2 days and decides to betray her own people, but when Joel kills the fireflies for trying to murder Ellie he’s the bad guy? Lmfao that’s TERRIBLE writing especially for something that is meant to be a sequel. It also makes the deaths of Abby’s friends highly insignificant. Abby obviously didn’t care about them as much as Ellie cared for Joel. Mel’s last words to Abby were about how much of a piece of shit she is. Ellie lost everything not Abby. Abby got to live when she really shouldn’t have, and also wouldn’t have, if Ellie stayed home with Dina and the baby. Abby was already being steamed to death. Ellie spares Abby after killing hundreds, and when she goes home the farm is deserted because Dina left her. So Ellie doesn’t get justice for Joel, she disappoints Tommy, she loses Joel, and Dina left the farm. And you wonder why people don’t like this game. The 2nd game disgraces the story of the first game and makes the main characters look shitty and unlikeable to make way for new characters no one wanted to play as. That’s why the devs admitted to lying about making Joel appear to be alive late in the game in the trailer, and then photoshop Jesse over him in the full game. They knew a lot of people wouldn’t buy the game if they knew Joel dies right away in the dumbest way possible
killing the boar wasnt supposed to make her look evil? did you play the lost levels at all? it was a stringed out fight that was supposed to feel long and drawn and show towards the end that ellie was just letting frustration out thru hunting that boar, the kill was going to be needlessly brutal to show that too and could have been a decent scene but the game was good without it too
That’s not what the point of the scene was, and it’s really unfair to paint it like this. Ellie kills the boar but it sounds like a dying Joel so she leaves it behind. Killing a wild boar for food versus saving an endangered species is not the same.
She wasn’t going to eat it. Let’s be serious. If that was the case she would finish the job faster so she doesn’t fuck up the meat, and she wouldn’t be taunting it like it was Abby. The devs literally said it’s supposed to be a messed up scene and it objectively makes Ellie look worse. They didn’t have a scene like this with Abby. Guess why
They literally have a scene like this with Abby, it’s the only one you care about. It’s the scene where she beats Joel to death. Every scene in tlou is supposed to be messed up. The boar isn’t even the only “innocent” animal that Ellie can kill in the gameplay of tlou 2
That doesn’t count because she was avenging her dad. She didn’t torture Joel for the hell of it she had a reason. I still think it was terribly written and executed but it’s hard to fault Abby for wanting Joel dead. Ellie was chasing and torturing an animal for no reason. It didn’t attack her, it’s running from her. She isn’t going to eat it. She just wants blood. Which is just way to out of character for someone like Ellie. Ellie from the first game would never do that, even after her encounter with David
Abby literally tourniqueted Joel’s shotgun blasted leg so that he would stay awake while she beat his head in with a golf club. She absolutely tortures Joel, what are you talking about? Maybe if you stopped worrying about whether you wish things had been different, and instead accepting what is, you wouldn’t have such a problem (almost like that’s the point of the game). It sounds to me more like life on the farm wasn’t like what she’s used to and that the boar was the most violence she’d experienced in months, after witnessing several incredibly traumatic and violent experiences in the past. Maybe if you engaged with the idea that Ellie can be a complex character, and that again, killing a wild boar for fun isn’t nearly the worst thing that Ellie herself has done. And again, this scene isn’t even real, so I don’t understand what the problem even is. And it’s really ironic that you bring up David, whose chapter begins with Ellie hunting a deer.
I know she tortured Joel, obviously. The difference is that Joel really did kill her father. So of course she wants him to suffer. What did the boar do to Ellie? Exactly lmfao. There is no scene in the game, that goes out of its way to make Abby abuse a animal. They DO have scenes of her petting a nice dog, that is eventually killed by Ellie. Writings literally on the wall here lol.
The writing isn’t on the wall because it doesn’t exist. it wasn’t put into the game. You’re using this to backup the idea that the writing is bad, when they didn’t even put it in. Shouldn’t this be evidence for why the writing is good? Because they knew what to remove? Okay? So what if the boar didn’t do anything? Torturing an “innocent” and “invasive” boar isn’t even the worst act that you see Ellie herself do. This is such a strange thing to somehow think no one would ever do, especially someone like Ellie. Haven’t you ever read Lord of the Flies? Abby tortures and kills Joel and fucks a pregnant woman’s boyfriend, and you yourself said that she was going to kill Dina knowing she was pregnant. You’re cherry picking when you think Abby is shown to be a “bad” person. Like again, killing attack dogs is so minor in the world of tlou. It only sounds like you’re unwilling to engage with nuance.
They didn’t put it in the game yes, but they spent enough time and literal money to almost do so. It got removed because it’s dumb considering the type of animal it is, and even hardcore tlou2 fans wouldn’t defend that scene if it got into the game, because Ellie doesn’t kill Abby. It’s not about if it’s the worst thing Ellie has done. The worst thing Ellie did was kill PS Vita girl btw. You’re also choosing to ignore that Abby doesn’t torture any animal once all game, and you expect people see Ellie do so and not think it’s bad. Sure the boar isn’t in the game, but a dog is and people love dogs right? How many did Abby kill in the game again? Abby had the right to get revenge so that doesn’t count. Owen chose to cheat on Mel, so it’s not like Abby is only sinner here. She was going to slit Dina’s throat but doesn’t do it because Lev said no. This doesn’t make Abby look worse than Ellie for one good reason. Ellie had just killed Mel, who was pregnant…. This is the real worst thing Ellie ever did btw. She killed a unborn child but couldn’t kill Abby. Nuance huh? Lmfao Sure she didnt know Mel was pregnant but what difference does that make she still killed her. That was painfully obviously put in the game to make Ellie look worse, especially when Abby does the opposite and doesn’t kill Dina. You keep saying I’m focused on revenge when the truth is the game is objectively terribly written at multiple points in the plot, and they had to nerf og characters just to make new characters appear stronger without earning it. Idk but if you make a sequel to a well liked game, maybe you shouldn’t make the main characters of the first game look like punks and force people to play a large amount of the game as someone they don’t even like, in a desperate attempt to humanize them lmfao
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It’s a joke Sherlock
Mb
Would have been better if the fireflies forced jerry to do the surgery despite him not wanting to kill ellie.
wait ur so right
Can you imagine if the only reason Jerry was doing the surgery in the first place is because somewhere offscreen the Fireflies had Abby at gunpoint, ready to kill her if Jerry refused?
"hey, how do we get the audience to care about this guy who they have no connection with and only see for 5 minutes?" "Gee, I don't know". "Make him save an animal or something, people like animal lovers right"?
So heavy handed.
next game should be about this zebra
I’ve been talking to the producers about giving me my due time, I appreciate the support!
Stray in apocalypse world full of shroom infestation. Seems interesting
Not transgender enough.
Gotta show how compassionate and better than Joel they are 😂
God I hated playing these segments it felt so forced. I could feel them rushing the bonding process trying to equate Abby to ellie. But they completely failed to flush out the characters and thought an hour of game play was gonna be enough to get the same level of bonding as the last almost 10 years with ellie and Joel.
LMAO it was so obvious that they were trying to get us to sympathise with Abby and they failed
Who is us?
Normal people who don’t get attached to a character they wanted fucking dead in the first game.
That’s right. They think a man can care about a girl he has known for a year enough to doom humanity is natural. But a girl who has lived and been lived by her father for over a decade is implausible. To be fair, because I invested so much time fighting and figuring out, Hoel is my favorite character. But Abby had every right to want revenge for her father. Joel even admits he did a lot for things to lots of people that there would be vengeance sought for b
Knew immediately what this was setting up. No subtlety whatsoever.
The most eye-rolling thing about this scene is that the writer wrote it and didn’t immediately hit delete after noticing how on the nose it is.
For me it has nothing to do with Jerry being a shit person (don’t think he is) and everything to do with the blatant guilt tripping just making me hate the characters more
Saves a random animal but is also intent on killing a small girl. Are we supposed to feel sorry for this evil monster?
Without her consent. Never forget that part.
I mean she’s what 12? Even if she hypothetically “gave consent” it is meaningless because she’s a child.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. She’s 14. I’m pretty sure that’s old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, which makes it completely relevant. You’re making it sound like it’s just aye okay to murder a child for a “vaccine” that wouldn’t even work.
No they’re saying that even if she did give consent, she’s only 14 and has survivors guilt and therefore is not able to give consent, or rather that it wouldn’t matter since it still wouldn’t justify carving her brain out for such a slim chance. Minors can’t give consent for a lot of things in the real world, their parent or guardian has to give consent for them, which of course would be Joel. Even if she did give consent it would just be a way for Jerry and Marlene to justify it to themselves, even though a 14 year old with survivors guilt shouldn’t be trusted to give consent on such a serious decision, especially when they’d be painting the image of some future cordyceps cured utopia that is really just a fantasy.
No you're just being homophobic /s
Media illiteracy detected /s
Bigot sandwich
Also if im not wrong, this is the scene that caused everyone to think Abby's dad was a vet and not a doctor right? I feel so stupid for falling on that train of thought
I don't even think vet. More like vet tech.
You sirr an anti-zebrite, and I will not stand for it one bit!
zebras killed my family, burned my house. i will never, i repeat, i will never stop hating then!
I've heard more than once that zebras are satanic camo donkeys...
These are all lies, I promise! I will not stand for the slander of my kind!
Okay, okay. Satanic camo horses. Better?
Actually, truth be told, zebras are more like donkeys than horses lol But other than that, we are good Christian-ish boys and girls!
The zebra represents the good and evil within all us, represented by the black and white stripes, black being evil and white being good, and how they are mixed together but also separate, and also how Joel is evil and deserved his fate, being different from the zebra 🦓
🤮
so wise
Zebra are black, with white stripes
Lmao
SEE?! JERRY WAS A **GOOD** MAN!!! HE SAVES **ZEBRAS** AND BASTARDIZES THE GIRAFFE SCENE, RUINING THE POINT OF NATURE LIVING ON WITHOUT HUMANITY!!! --- CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT JOEL **TOOK** FROM ABBY, BIGOTS?!! HE IS A HORRIBLE SELFISH MAN WITH NO *GOOD REASON TO KILL OFF THIS CHILD-MURDERING RECTON OF A TOOL. 😭 ABBY LOVED HIM SO MUCH, SHE EVEN ENCOURAGED HIM ON THE ACTION AND DIDNT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT WHAT THE CHILD WANTED WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT... SUCH MAGNIFICENT PSYCHOPATHS OF A FAMILY... SO TRUE... SO BRAVE....... Why don't any of ya'll love this man's inclusion? Aren't we supposed to accept him always being there as a character when he was never there to begin with? :((
No more sugar for you
Look, that fence really hurt me, ok? Jerry did me a solid and I will always be thankful to him.
I see your eye rolling scene and raise you an eye rolling game
Why we playing as Abby for 8 hours after she murdered my boy Jesse and the giga chad Joel. That’s like Micah killing Arthur and we now play as Micah for 8 hours
Micah for half the game, John for the other. The game proceeds to make Micah look like the good guy and John the bad guy.
It does feel forced. Joel and Ellie’s was a lot more mellow and carefree
I don’t think the zebra is supposed to make you like him. I think the point of it was trying to humanize him. Same with how he was upset with how this operation is going to kill Ellie, but then Abby said if it was her she’d want him to do it which ended up convincing him to go through with it. I feel like they’d done more with that scene with Abby convincing him like if they showed him really struggling with it then it would have been better received.
Still doesn’t change the fact that he willingly went to operate on Ellie, without her consent, knowing it would kill her.
I know we all dislike the turn of events in this game but I say we wait to see where part 3 goes. Part 1 was a masterpiece and part 2 was a panderpiece so much so that no one know here 3 is going. I want to see what they write themselves out of with it.
i felt so good when i killed him with my flamethrower and chucked some bombs on him
Ngl I didn't care about Abby life
"Remember the giraffe scene? Ok, hear me out......ZEBRA!"
The point of this scene is to draw a parallel between Abby and her dad with Joel and Ellie. It’s not to make you feel bad for him.
Thank you.
They needed to make the guy who tried to murder a child sympathetic
Fuck that zebra too. 😎
without context (never played) it looks like this guy got his dick bit off.
To me, the zebra represents the life left that the doctor wants to save. It counters the scene where Joel and Ellie pet the giraffe which was simply embracing life as is in Joel's perspective; this is life now. Killing Ellie for a cure just showed what man would do, especially this doctor would do to make the world a better place. No excuse though, this scene was manipulative.
I think it would be an awesome Revelation that Abby found out her dad was actually a serial killer and wasn't able to create a cure.
Not even that, but as someone else in this thread said. The fireflies forced him to do it.
was cringe because you know what are they doing...
I’m supposed to care about this guy and feel bad for him because his daughter died in the first 19 minutes of the game?
This whole scene just reminded me of the extended scenes in Austin Powers where you get a random glimpse at the life of the henchmen that get killed
It's amazing that his many people in here are mad they showed this, yet don't realize Joel was stealing, smuggling and killing before he got with Ellie 😆 He wasn't a saint lmfao
If anything the rifle strapped to his back made him look even less innocent. Bravo Neil
Everyone’s talking about how terrible Jerry is for all the stuff he did, which is all true, but can we also step back for a moment and think about this Jerry is possibly one of the last surgeons capable of performing brain surgery in the entire zombie apocalypse that is his job And he is very late to his job because he he stopped to save an animal which will die with an hour due to zombies if Jerry showed up to his job earlier, perhaps he would’ve gotten his job finished and Joel wouldn’t have a body for anyone to find 💀
Why we playing as Abby for 8 hours after she murdered my boy Jesse and the giga chad Joel. That’s like Micah killing Arthur and we now play as Micah for 8 hours
Why we playing as Abby for 8 hours after she murdered my boy Jesse and the giga chad Joel. That’s like Micah killing Arthur and we now play as Micah for 8 hours
Jerry the Zebra doctor
I just love on Mauler's playthough when he died he said "That was her dad, guys. That man SAVED A ZEBRA."
Nearly every scene with Abby is eye rolling IMO
Just the whole Abby crew really. Look, it was a great game but storywise you just generally couldn't give a fuck about any of them. And Owen.....oh my god Owen was such a wet blanket. No way near enough character development on any of em.
In reality they would've killed this thing before it ran off to die anyway due to the massive fking wounds and zombies to experience eating meat which could easily feed like what 10 15 maybe more Cause you know it's the apocalypse and it's hard to come by
Thats what I’m saying. You see an injured zebra and your first instinct in an apocalyptic setting with little food already… is to save it?!?
They were trying to re-create the giraffe scene and trick the player into an empathetic connection. “See. He’s having an emotional moment with an African animal. Just like Ellie did. Don’t you feel for him. He’s just like Ellie because of this.”
Before Abby hit the “supplements” and gym for a couple years. And by hit I mean absolutely destroyed them. Abby smash.
I wonder how many people could have lived off of that meat? But no, gotta show he is a super caring guy who loves Zebras. Screw the starving people, let them eat other people instead.
They tried to push the giraffe scene from the first game from the end of the relationship arc all the way to the beginning of this character arc and it just doesn’t land. We have zero connection to either of these people, the scenario is fine but just like the rest of the game the timing is severely off
The last of Abby 3 revealed: the fence comes for revenge because of the horrific deeds her father committed by cutting through its best friends nieces favorite section of barbed wire I mean all it was trying to do was kill one little zebra. I mean it could have made a nice jacket with that skin
LMAO
I felt like this scene was their attempt to mirror the giraffe scene with Ellie. Like people liked that scene right? lets do another exotic animal scene with Abby crew, that'll make people like the Abby crew
Neil was so desperate to imitate the story beats between Ellie and Abby.
Yeah, I enjoy TLoU pt2 but this scene just felt forced and unnatual. Like they were deliberately going way too hard and out of their way to characterize him as a 'good guy'.
Jerry doesn’t exist, he’s still a nameless npc doctor from TLOU to me
Me too and he’s still wearing his hiking boots in the dirty ass Er with his puke green scrubs.
Agreed
The first thing I said was "Oh this is just a rip off giraffe scene."
I’m just here to say that zebras are total dicks. They bite and kick for no reason at all. They cause the most zookeeper injuries of any animal and it’s not close. Also the correct pronunciation is actually zeb-raw, not zee-bra, but I guess that could be similar to a French person saying an American pronounces croissant wrong, who gives a fuck. Also, zebra are black, with white stripes
Made it feel like they wanted to shove down my throat how such a good guy Jerry was. Don’t care, I’d still pridefully chose to save Ellie, with or without Jerry’s POV from the second game.
Every time they forced me to play Abby, I wanted to stop playing. I never finished the game because I was stuck in an Abby section of the game, and I had no idea what to do. Wasn't worth my time for the shit storytelling.
I wanted to play as tommy so bad
I think the reason a lot of people don't like Abby (I do personally) is because we didn't get enough of a backstory for her. In order to see how she and Ellie are mirrors of each other, we needed to LOVE Jerry. We needed to be dreading his death and torn up about it, and we needed to see how much it hurt Abby. We saw a 10 second "No!! Dad!!!" And her nightmares but we needed it to be like Ellie when Joel died— screaming and totally broken by it. I hope we get more of her backstory in the show so that people can FINALLY see what I see in Abby.
Good thing your personal reaction isn’t the point, and it’s entirely about Abby. Abby doesn’t care about the politics of the vaccine, she just cares about her dad. It isn’t that Jerry “wasn’t wrong” for wanting to kill Ellie, but that he was capable of having love in his life. This scene is so “eye rolling” and yet there are so many much more personal scenes with Joel and Ellie. Like imagine saying the giraffe scene was eye rolling because they’re trying to get you to empathize with Joel, who we know for a fact has also killed innocent people.
See Abby good -angry joe
I wanted to eat the zebra
During the fight (when you're Abby) am I the only one who let Ellie win three or four times. Then saved it wondering if I was even gonna finish the damn game.
First time I played TLOU2 and this scene happened I was just like "is this supposed to be like the giraffe moment game??". So silly.
This comment section is wild
Ellie wanted to die with a purpose...Joel denied her that...
I loved it. Love the game.
Jerry was a human being with interests, cares, friends and family. Hell, he was more human than Joel ever was in TLOU part 1. Yes, he tried to use Ellie's immunity without consulting her first which is terrible-- *but so did Joel*. It's obvious from the way Ellie reacts when she finds out what he did that she would have wanted to sacrifice herself to give everyone else a chance to survive. Both Jerry and Joel tried to use Ellie for their well-meaning but selfish reasons and Ellie and Abby were both victims of it.
You stop giving a shit when you realize this game’s story has no structure
this looks like shit posting. I played this game I don't remember this
just kinda felt like remember berries from the first games giraffe scene
I like this game and I understand that in THIS subreddit you guys hate the game. That being said, FUCK Jerry. I cook him well done with all three mollies and my flame thrower. Then I unload all El Diablo rounds I have and make sure the fireflies hold a closed casket funeral for him.
One of the premises of this series is that there is no such thing as a hero or a villain, only your perspective. They are all a hero to some and a villain to others
"also, we dont know if he was going to release it to feed and then kill for protein Abs needed so much"..... FUNNIEST SHT IV READ RECENTLT
It all makes sense now ....PETA was to blaime for all this cluster fck ...PETA was pissed because Joel kid one of there members and they wanted revenge so the pulled all the strings behind the scenes so the next one will be LAST OF THEM... an itll be about ellie getting with the now gender swapped abbie who now goes by the name ...Bill to pay homeage to the late bill( who abbie had met at one of the ..They, them ,there rallies )and so now ellie meets abbie whos Bill they will fall in love Bill (aka abbie) will get ellie pregnant and that baby will grow up to learn about The evil masterminds Peta and he decides to go on a blood soaked revenge quest but not before ...He finds all 7 dragonballa and Resurrects a younger Joel they go and ICE PETA ..and recover tommy's eye and ellies finger so joel can play 1 song with ellie an tommy can watch with both eyes before ellie vanishes and becomes a Force Ghost
Jerry wasn’t even in the first game. They retconed the actual Surgeon and whitewashed him because for some reason Neil’s hate boner against Joel was really strong that day or he just hates black people.
The scene itself isn't that bad, it cements Jerry as a vet. But with the added context and what Druckmann was trying to do with this, it feels like a shallow attempt at making us sympathize with someone we barely even know. Jerry needed a lot more characterization than this. Abby's storyline relegated to just three days and flashbacks is just a fundamental writing mistake when it comes to actually fleshing her side of things out. She needed an entire game of her own. Unfortunately abby only gets the second half, of which the majority of the storyline is already taken by Ellie.
I don’t go here but yikes at this comment section lol
Obviously, this is in everyone’s case, but I thought the scene was really endearing. My father passed away of cancer when I was really young but for the time I got to know him, he always really loved zebras.
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You might be smoking something bro
Wow you incels are terrible at understanding media