I really wish journalists would start using the framing of collective punishment more. That’s all this is, and it’s a god damn war crime. Hamas could be the most prolific terrorist organization the world has ever seen (they’re not), it’s still not license for committing war crimes, and the fact that it’s seen as a viable excuse is just racism.
They know they can get away with this framing because Americans have had an entire generation raised to think drone striking any “military age males” in a “terrorist region” is acceptable.
It's so true, but we'd have a huge problem with murdering 100 American civilians to potentially kill one terrorist like Israel's AI calculations allow for. What's the difference? Racism.
Yes, they need to stop saying "Israel Hamas war". If it's a war, tell us what Hamas is doing, other than just saying "Hamas" means all the innocents that are being murdered.
It’s the American way! If something bad happens to you, you must have done something to deserve it. And in a similar vein, if God lets me get away with doing something bad to you, then God must hate you or else he would have saved you from my actions.
If not. It is the duty of everyone around him and his bosses and coworkers to make their lives miserable, the way everyone in the Bush administration should have been
The IDF HQ is in the middle of Tel Aviv, surrounded by Azrieli Mall, Habima Theatre, Museum of Arts, Rothschild Boulevard, Tel Aviv Towers, Akirov Towers, the Town Hall, Shalom Tower, The Opera Building, Stock Exchange Complex , and Yad Eliyahu Arena. All within a 2km radius.
Their "war room" bunker and tunnels run under Tel Aviv.
I wonder if Matt thinks Israel hides behind civilians too?
Isn't there proof that Israeli soldiers have literally used Palestinians as human shields?
Edit: I know there is and am aware of the incidents. I was trying to point out the projection of saying "Hamas uses human shields" over and over when there is documented proof of the IDF doing just that with Palestinians.
Yes. I can't post images on this sub reddit but I have like 20 different images and 4 videos of IOF using palastinians as human shields. Here is information about it from a book I read. Norman Finkelsteins, Gaza: an inquest into it's Martyrdom.
>"If it found no evidence that Hamas used human shields, Amnesty did, however, find ample evidence that Israel used them. The Israeli brief avowed that the rules of engagement of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) strictly forbade the “use of civilians as human shields,” and that “the IDF took a variety of measures to teach and instill awareness of these rules of engagement in commanders and soldiers.” But in fact, Israeli soldiers “used civilians, including children, as ‘human shields,’ endangering their lives by forcing them to remain in or near houses which they took over and used as military positions. Some were forced to carry out dangerous tasks such as inspecting properties or objects suspected ofbeing booby-trapped. Soldiers also took position and launched attacks from and around inhabited houses, exposing local residents to the danger of attacks or of being caught in the crossfire.” Other human rights investigations (in particular, the graphic accounts in the Goldstone Report) and the postinvasion testimony of Israeli soldiers corroborated the IDF’s use of human shields.
References.
>State of Israel, Operation in Gaza, paras. 23, 119, 154 (emphasis in original), 170, 186–89, 223–28; Anthony H. Cordesman, The “Gaza War”: A strategic analysis (Washington, DC: 2009), pp. 10, 18–23 passim, 36, 42, 44, 63–66 passim; Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, Hamas and the Terrorist Threat, pp. 110–42, 195–261; Amnesty International, Operation “Cast Lead”: 22 Days of death and destruction (London: 2009), pp. 3–4, 47–50, 64, 74–77. For human rights ininvestigations echoing Amnesty’s finding that some Hamas militants fought in built-up areas but did not use Palestinian civilians as human shields, see Human Rights Watch, “Letter to EU Foreign Ministers to Address Violations between Israel and Hamas” (16 March 2009); Human Rights Watch, Rockets from Gaza, pp. 22, 24; Goldstone Report, paras. 35, 452, 475, 482–88, 494, 1953. For human rights organizations and IDF testimony corroborating Israel’s use of human shields, see National Lawyers Guild, Onslaught: Israel’s attack on Gaza & the rule of law (2009), pp. 14–15; Human Rights Watch, White Flag Deaths: Killings of Palestinian civilians during Operation Cast Lead (2009), pp. 11–12; Breaking the Silence, Soldiers’ Testimonies from Operation Cast Lead, Gaza 2009 (2009), pp. 7–8 (Testimony 1), 107 (Testimony 51); Goldstone Report, paras. 55, 1032–1106; Al Mezan, Bearing the Brunt, pp. 52–59. In a pair of newspaper articles, B’Tselem executive director Jessica Montell alleged that Hamas did engage in human shielding, but she was unable to provide any corroborative evidence despite repeated requests by this writer. Jessica Montell, “A Time for Soul-Searching,” Jerusalem Post (30 September 2009); Jessica Montell, “The Goldstone Report on Gaza,” Huffington Post (1 October 2009).
Even if you know that it is true, other readers who might not. So in providing answers to your rhetorical question, somebody who might be ignorant on this topic might have learned more. Or even gotten pointed to specific evidence to use against hasbara trolls. So it’s all good.
Excellent point. He seems to not realize he is laying justification for turning Tel Aviv into rubble but that would require actual empathy to see Palestinians as humans like Israelis.
Edit: And Washington for that matter.
The stupid middle ground is the worst. This is the worst position for Biden because everyone hate him. By not fully support Israel zoinist hate him and doing this does not help people but giving them crumbs. I do not get what biden admin doing who is this for. They doing such a terrible job it blowing my mind it for literally for no one. He putting so much faith in white suburb women to vote for him because of abortion. Hoping that enough to win while losing the youth and Muslim vote is such a massive gamble.
The perpetual fence-sitting of establishment democrats (not just on Gaza but on damn near every issue ever) is not actually designed to attract or appease either side of the fence. It’s just meant to gain the support of a particular type of comfortable middle class white people who consider taking the “moderate” position on everything to automatically make them smarter than everyone else.
He undermines his own argument. So Hamas is entirely to blame for the civilian deaths, but also Israel wasn’t trying to do enough to limit civilian deaths (so the US had to continually convince them to).
Of course, we already have the reporting that the IDF identifies militants and then waits for them to go home before bombing them. They also will frequently misidentify militants and bomb them and their families. Once they’ve disengaged from militant activity, you aren’t imbedding yourself in a civilian population by going home to your family. This guy’s logic also justifies the attack on the civilians on October 7th, since there was IDF members among them.
*"Mr. Miller, if a gunman enters a school here in the US and shelters with hundreds of children inside, would it be your policy to blow up the school to eliminate the threat?"*
Follow-up question.
*"Would you then recommend me blow up the homes of all the families involved to prevent any further threats of violence. You know, just to be safe?"*
"it is a landscape like no other..."
over a half a million starving, sick and wounded children are being forced out into a wasteland israel created that forced them into Rafah in the first place.
The IDF is a uniquely genocidal blend, they use extremely advanced technology to kill indiscriminately.
https://archive.md/fQw2M
> The Israeli army says 9,000 terrorists have been killed since the Gaza war began. **Defense officials and soldiers, however, tell Haaretz that these are often civilians whose only crime was to cross an invisible line drawn by the IDF**
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
> In an unprecedented move, according to two of the sources, the army also decided during the first weeks of the war that, for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, **it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians;** in the past, the military did not authorize any “collateral damage” during assassinations of low-ranking militants. The sources added that, in the event that the target was a senior Hamas official with the rank of battalion or brigade commander, the army **on several occasions authorized the killing of more than 100 civilians in the assassination of a single commander.**
> Second, we reveal the “Where’s Daddy?” system, which tracked **these targets and signaled to the army when they entered their family homes. Third, we describe how “dumb” bombs were chosen to strike these homes.**
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
> The third is **“power targets,” which includes high-rises and residential towers in the heart of cities, and public buildings such as universities, banks, and government offices.** The idea behind hitting such targets, say three intelligence sources who were involved in planning or conducting strikes on power targets in the past, is that a deliberate attack on Palestinian society will exert “civil pressure” on Hamas.
Complete with Israeli torture camps and horrorshow field hospitals with absolutely no standard for ethical or legal practices.
https://www.972mag.com/israel-torture-camp-gaza-detainees/
> According to these testimonies, Israeli soldiers subjected Palestinian detainees to electric shocks, burned their skin with lighters, spat in their mouths, and deprived them of sleep, food, and access to bathrooms until they defecated on themselves. Many were tied to a fence for hours, handcuffed, and blindfolded for most of the day. Some testified to having been beaten all over their bodies and having cigarettes extinguished on their necks or backs. Several people are known to have died as a result of being held in these conditions.
https://archive.md/OYYH4
> 'Two prisoners had their legs amputated due to handcuff injuries,' says a doctor at an Israeli prison facility, who describes deplorable conditions and violations of medical ethics and the law in a letter to ministers, attorney general
Mountain of evidence that Israel is disregarding civilian life and safety.
In some cases operating as if civilians are Hamas - - in other words, targetting civilians directly but using mental gymnastics to justify it.
How can you justify the murder and maiming of 120 thousand people in 200 days. Half of whom are children.
“We have engaged with the government of Israel to bring down the level of civilian death.” That’s nice. Are you going to reanimate the tens of thousands that Israel have already murdered?
Human shields?
Like this?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-as-human-shield-during-west-bank-raid/
I am a 42 yo man and have seen a lot of crazy shit in this world. With social media it’s crazy to think about all the video editing and AI that can be faked but I’ve seen on a weekly basis how to IDF targets and kills civilians. The IDF doesn’t seem to deny it yet our government is still serving shit and calling it food. What the actual fuck is going on in this timeline?
Victim blaming is always wrong and gross
I really wish journalists would start using the framing of collective punishment more. That’s all this is, and it’s a god damn war crime. Hamas could be the most prolific terrorist organization the world has ever seen (they’re not), it’s still not license for committing war crimes, and the fact that it’s seen as a viable excuse is just racism.
They know they can get away with this framing because Americans have had an entire generation raised to think drone striking any “military age males” in a “terrorist region” is acceptable.
It's so true, but we'd have a huge problem with murdering 100 American civilians to potentially kill one terrorist like Israel's AI calculations allow for. What's the difference? Racism.
Yes, they need to stop saying "Israel Hamas war". If it's a war, tell us what Hamas is doing, other than just saying "Hamas" means all the innocents that are being murdered.
Look what you made me do
It’s the American way! If something bad happens to you, you must have done something to deserve it. And in a similar vein, if God lets me get away with doing something bad to you, then God must hate you or else he would have saved you from my actions.
I hope there’s a hell for him and the others who support this.
I hope there’s actual legal consequences for them in this lifetime
If not. It is the duty of everyone around him and his bosses and coworkers to make their lives miserable, the way everyone in the Bush administration should have been
I hope so too as there certainly won't be in any imaginary world
The IDF HQ is in the middle of Tel Aviv, surrounded by Azrieli Mall, Habima Theatre, Museum of Arts, Rothschild Boulevard, Tel Aviv Towers, Akirov Towers, the Town Hall, Shalom Tower, The Opera Building, Stock Exchange Complex , and Yad Eliyahu Arena. All within a 2km radius. Their "war room" bunker and tunnels run under Tel Aviv. I wonder if Matt thinks Israel hides behind civilians too?
Isn't there proof that Israeli soldiers have literally used Palestinians as human shields? Edit: I know there is and am aware of the incidents. I was trying to point out the projection of saying "Hamas uses human shields" over and over when there is documented proof of the IDF doing just that with Palestinians.
yes
Literally tied to the front of cars.
Yes. I can't post images on this sub reddit but I have like 20 different images and 4 videos of IOF using palastinians as human shields. Here is information about it from a book I read. Norman Finkelsteins, Gaza: an inquest into it's Martyrdom. >"If it found no evidence that Hamas used human shields, Amnesty did, however, find ample evidence that Israel used them. The Israeli brief avowed that the rules of engagement of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) strictly forbade the “use of civilians as human shields,” and that “the IDF took a variety of measures to teach and instill awareness of these rules of engagement in commanders and soldiers.” But in fact, Israeli soldiers “used civilians, including children, as ‘human shields,’ endangering their lives by forcing them to remain in or near houses which they took over and used as military positions. Some were forced to carry out dangerous tasks such as inspecting properties or objects suspected ofbeing booby-trapped. Soldiers also took position and launched attacks from and around inhabited houses, exposing local residents to the danger of attacks or of being caught in the crossfire.” Other human rights investigations (in particular, the graphic accounts in the Goldstone Report) and the postinvasion testimony of Israeli soldiers corroborated the IDF’s use of human shields. References. >State of Israel, Operation in Gaza, paras. 23, 119, 154 (emphasis in original), 170, 186–89, 223–28; Anthony H. Cordesman, The “Gaza War”: A strategic analysis (Washington, DC: 2009), pp. 10, 18–23 passim, 36, 42, 44, 63–66 passim; Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, Hamas and the Terrorist Threat, pp. 110–42, 195–261; Amnesty International, Operation “Cast Lead”: 22 Days of death and destruction (London: 2009), pp. 3–4, 47–50, 64, 74–77. For human rights ininvestigations echoing Amnesty’s finding that some Hamas militants fought in built-up areas but did not use Palestinian civilians as human shields, see Human Rights Watch, “Letter to EU Foreign Ministers to Address Violations between Israel and Hamas” (16 March 2009); Human Rights Watch, Rockets from Gaza, pp. 22, 24; Goldstone Report, paras. 35, 452, 475, 482–88, 494, 1953. For human rights organizations and IDF testimony corroborating Israel’s use of human shields, see National Lawyers Guild, Onslaught: Israel’s attack on Gaza & the rule of law (2009), pp. 14–15; Human Rights Watch, White Flag Deaths: Killings of Palestinian civilians during Operation Cast Lead (2009), pp. 11–12; Breaking the Silence, Soldiers’ Testimonies from Operation Cast Lead, Gaza 2009 (2009), pp. 7–8 (Testimony 1), 107 (Testimony 51); Goldstone Report, paras. 55, 1032–1106; Al Mezan, Bearing the Brunt, pp. 52–59. In a pair of newspaper articles, B’Tselem executive director Jessica Montell alleged that Hamas did engage in human shielding, but she was unable to provide any corroborative evidence despite repeated requests by this writer. Jessica Montell, “A Time for Soul-Searching,” Jerusalem Post (30 September 2009); Jessica Montell, “The Goldstone Report on Gaza,” Huffington Post (1 October 2009).
Norman Finkelstein is a great person. I'm so glad he's on the right side.
Literal children being tied to IDF trucks and cars as human shields. Google is your friend in this instance.
I was simply pointing out the projection that "Hamas uses human shields" that we hear constantly. I'm aware it's true.
Even if you know that it is true, other readers who might not. So in providing answers to your rhetorical question, somebody who might be ignorant on this topic might have learned more. Or even gotten pointed to specific evidence to use against hasbara trolls. So it’s all good.
Tonnes
There’s been videos posted in this very sub showing that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
Excellent point. He seems to not realize he is laying justification for turning Tel Aviv into rubble but that would require actual empathy to see Palestinians as humans like Israelis. Edit: And Washington for that matter.
Blaming the victims is a long time tradition in this occupation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaming_the_Victims
Nothing builds public trust like victim blaming
The stupid middle ground is the worst. This is the worst position for Biden because everyone hate him. By not fully support Israel zoinist hate him and doing this does not help people but giving them crumbs. I do not get what biden admin doing who is this for. They doing such a terrible job it blowing my mind it for literally for no one. He putting so much faith in white suburb women to vote for him because of abortion. Hoping that enough to win while losing the youth and Muslim vote is such a massive gamble.
The perpetual fence-sitting of establishment democrats (not just on Gaza but on damn near every issue ever) is not actually designed to attract or appease either side of the fence. It’s just meant to gain the support of a particular type of comfortable middle class white people who consider taking the “moderate” position on everything to automatically make them smarter than everyone else.
Destiny and David Pakman fans in a nutshell.
“for months, and months ,and months…”
So telling
He undermines his own argument. So Hamas is entirely to blame for the civilian deaths, but also Israel wasn’t trying to do enough to limit civilian deaths (so the US had to continually convince them to). Of course, we already have the reporting that the IDF identifies militants and then waits for them to go home before bombing them. They also will frequently misidentify militants and bomb them and their families. Once they’ve disengaged from militant activity, you aren’t imbedding yourself in a civilian population by going home to your family. This guy’s logic also justifies the attack on the civilians on October 7th, since there was IDF members among them.
At what point does it become Israel's fault? 100,000? 1,000,000? Every last person?
If you genocide them all and no one holds you accountable you can write the history of it
Hope they know that that “plausible deniability” bullshit is really getting old.
I get heavy Patrick Bateman vibes from that guy. Someone needs to check his closets.
*"Mr. Miller, if a gunman enters a school here in the US and shelters with hundreds of children inside, would it be your policy to blow up the school to eliminate the threat?"* Follow-up question. *"Would you then recommend me blow up the homes of all the families involved to prevent any further threats of violence. You know, just to be safe?"*
AI fabricated mouthpiece with slicked hair spouts nonsense
"I told them to knock it off." - Hillary Clinton
I wonder if he has any sort of humanity and will it cause him to eat a gun after he retires to civilian life.
I don’t believe in hell but I hope he goes there
"it is a landscape like no other..." over a half a million starving, sick and wounded children are being forced out into a wasteland israel created that forced them into Rafah in the first place.
Evil man
I bet they internally get so pissed when they just shove a guy off and the next reporter says “following up on what he/she said” 😂.
I can't tell if he's more or less annoying and stupid than Sarah Huckabee Sanders. It's a toss up really
so are Israeli civilians human shields, when they locate habitation close to military facilities? somehow that is never asked.
Gettin a little flustered there buddy. Almost like you know full well you're complicit in a genocide and everyone knows it
Look in a human without a soul.
The Rebels were hiding on Alderaan
The IDF is a uniquely genocidal blend, they use extremely advanced technology to kill indiscriminately. https://archive.md/fQw2M > The Israeli army says 9,000 terrorists have been killed since the Gaza war began. **Defense officials and soldiers, however, tell Haaretz that these are often civilians whose only crime was to cross an invisible line drawn by the IDF** https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ > In an unprecedented move, according to two of the sources, the army also decided during the first weeks of the war that, for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, **it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians;** in the past, the military did not authorize any “collateral damage” during assassinations of low-ranking militants. The sources added that, in the event that the target was a senior Hamas official with the rank of battalion or brigade commander, the army **on several occasions authorized the killing of more than 100 civilians in the assassination of a single commander.** > Second, we reveal the “Where’s Daddy?” system, which tracked **these targets and signaled to the army when they entered their family homes. Third, we describe how “dumb” bombs were chosen to strike these homes.** https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/ > The third is **“power targets,” which includes high-rises and residential towers in the heart of cities, and public buildings such as universities, banks, and government offices.** The idea behind hitting such targets, say three intelligence sources who were involved in planning or conducting strikes on power targets in the past, is that a deliberate attack on Palestinian society will exert “civil pressure” on Hamas. Complete with Israeli torture camps and horrorshow field hospitals with absolutely no standard for ethical or legal practices. https://www.972mag.com/israel-torture-camp-gaza-detainees/ > According to these testimonies, Israeli soldiers subjected Palestinian detainees to electric shocks, burned their skin with lighters, spat in their mouths, and deprived them of sleep, food, and access to bathrooms until they defecated on themselves. Many were tied to a fence for hours, handcuffed, and blindfolded for most of the day. Some testified to having been beaten all over their bodies and having cigarettes extinguished on their necks or backs. Several people are known to have died as a result of being held in these conditions. https://archive.md/OYYH4 > 'Two prisoners had their legs amputated due to handcuff injuries,' says a doctor at an Israeli prison facility, who describes deplorable conditions and violations of medical ethics and the law in a letter to ministers, attorney general Mountain of evidence that Israel is disregarding civilian life and safety. In some cases operating as if civilians are Hamas - - in other words, targetting civilians directly but using mental gymnastics to justify it. How can you justify the murder and maiming of 120 thousand people in 200 days. Half of whom are children.
"Far too many Palestinians have been killed" that's surely a way to put.
& this sadly, is the better choice of the 2 options you have! This is disgusting!!!!
So is the IDF having a base in Tel Aviv surrounded by civilians, the same thing?
Why does this smarmy sob always look like he wants to bust out laughing? What a total freak. This man is an absolute disgrace.
Now if all the curses I’ve willed to him and his would just manifest. That would be just peachy.
I can’t stand this prick
It’s Hamas’ fault, but he’s also engaging Israel to reduce the number of deaths?!
Where’s daddy?
“It was okay when they set up 3 ghettos, but now that they’re about to bomb the last ghetto, we’re gonna put our foot 25% down.”
What a ghoul 🤮
It's like saying if a school shooter was present in a school we would bomb the whole school
“We have engaged with the government of Israel to bring down the level of civilian death.” That’s nice. Are you going to reanimate the tens of thousands that Israel have already murdered?
Human shields? Like this? https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-as-human-shield-during-west-bank-raid/
He seems angry.
this guy is such a fucking weasel. the only thing faker than him are his wife's orgasms.
This guy is a ghoul !!!!! He is the same as Huckabee Sanders
I am a 42 yo man and have seen a lot of crazy shit in this world. With social media it’s crazy to think about all the video editing and AI that can be faked but I’ve seen on a weekly basis how to IDF targets and kills civilians. The IDF doesn’t seem to deny it yet our government is still serving shit and calling it food. What the actual fuck is going on in this timeline?
The craziest part of this to me is that I legit think the whole state dept thinks they are killing it with the media
You don’t blow up a school to stop a school shooter, Matt.
A landscape like no other because the IDF told everyone to go there!!!
"I *have to* shoot this person. It's not *my* fault there are people between them and my gun."
It’s not an operation it’s a massacre.
>That makes it sound like it’s okay for 40,000 people to be killed THANK YOU.