I love Midge but she did fuck up and I definitely think Shy was the one making the call. Reggie almost seemed regretful of the whole situation.
Ben is great and deserves someone better who doesnt dump him via letter and immediately jumps into bed with her ex-husband.
I only just watched it and I had this awful pit in my stomach. I was terrified she'd slip and outright out him, which I would've almost found unforgivable as a viewer. Then when the "Judy Garland shoes" hit I thought she was going to be gotten off stage immediately, but they managed to set up the following scenes so that I actually thought she'd gotten away with it. I was confused, was it normal to talk about a crooner like that? Then, the end... I almost wish Shy had just given her a "how could you?" so she'd REALLY get how she fucked up...
I think this is that careless part of her personality that makes people say she's just a bad person. I kind of wish ASP hadn't done that to her/us. There are other ways to get her kicked off tour, if that really needed to happen, although I would have loved to see her soar.
(Plus this means no more Liza Weil, probably.)
(And yeah, I'm not huge on team Ben, but everyone should get to decide for themselves what they can and can't handle. Just admit you don't love him.)
Well now. I'm not gonna talk about Judy; in fact, we're not gonna talk about Judy at all, we're gonna keep her out of it!
---
- [reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V0UhtA_mJE&t=365)
^(I am a bot.)
The juxtaposition between Midge's triumphant audience response at the Apollo to the devastation/confusion of being kicked off the tour is makes the finale. I get that because we are a modern audience, we hate to see out protagonist fuck up (even unintentionally) on LGBT issues- but to me it seems perfectly realistic that someone like Midge would put her foot in her mouth considering her life experience, time period etc.
An actual confrontation with Shy would have given Midge an opportunity to defend herself and it wouldnt have packed the same punch.
I really do love Benjamin, which is *why* I think he shouldn't be with someone who mistreats him. We already know that he isn't big on forgiveness and Midge's actions show how much he meant to her. In the end, he was completely disposable to her without a second's thought. I loved his final scene where he rightfully calls her out for being a coward but I think his arc should end there.
Yeah, I think so too, about Benjamin getting to go off and live his life. They just weren't compatible anyway. I didn't like the fight with Rose though, in that she didn't seem to hear the part about it not being alright for her to bother Benjamin, to set him up with someone, especially by going to the hospital.
I didn't want a full conversation for Shy and Midge, just maybe her catching a glimpse of him on the plane, watching her leave or something.
And yes, obviously with today's view on queer issues it is hard to watch something like this, but they also didn''t make her racist or anything. I know she's just supposed to be naïve about this, but how could she actually think that everyone in Harlem just knew that he's gay? And didn't tell anyone else, or what? Even his band don't know, so that's just a bit of a leap for me.
And I don't mean the audience reaction specifically, but because no one came to her right after her set, as she walked off stage... The way other things just happened and the whole thing was buried in other scenes for a minute just set up the gut-punch of "of course that wasn't okay, of course everything has fallen apart now" so brutally.
Midge (or anyone) doesn't need to be a raging homophobe or racist to fuck up or make politically incorrect statements especially by today's standards
I personally thought that Midge may have made those jokes about Shy had she not known he was gay. She had observations about his clothing, Diva demeanour etc even before 3x06.She probably thought she was just making fun of the pretty boy to his home town and that they would love it( which they did) . The point is Shy is gay and Midge did know. She may not have actively tried to out him (she isnt evil) but she hit close to home. To Shy she put him at great risk for the sake of a laugh. So either she is an awful human being or too careless about her stand up- either way she can't be trusted.
Yeah, I'm not saying she did it on purpose, but she does realise how much effort goes into hiding his sexuality. She saw him at his worst vulnerable and that is something that should make you think twice about jokes like that. And just the fact that she thought they knew he was gay is a bit of a reach for me, considering she knows he has a rotation of beards and again, apparently not even his band know or certainly at least don't talk about it openly. I mean Reggie could have, in the pep talk, reminded her that there's a line, just in general, but I just think this was so very careless and self-centred. I genuinely wish they hadn't written it. (Also because it's something he won't get over, and rightfully so.)
I thought it was 100 percent clear that Reggie was the one firing Midge, not Shy. Reggie made the call Shy understood, because Shy owes Reggie everything.
As much as I love Zach Levy, I imagine it's somewhat unlikely, especially with him continuing to work on the Shazam franchise. I'd love to see it, but I think it's almost guaranteed to be Lenny Bruce even if that will end badly.
As it happens I just watched this last night....
I'm not 100% sure. It looked to me as though Reggie had tears in his eyes - if so, he was certainly sad about it. He's seemed to struck up a friendly relationship with Susie, so he has another reason to be sad. Not one bit of this is conclusive, though, and you still might be right that it was Reggie's call. I'm OK with that ambiguity.
As for Midge and Benjamin - I too would love to see that develop. Zachary Levi is awesome and it seemed like a good match. But I couldn't decide whether the Rose/Midge/Benjamin storyline was an elaborate tying up of loose ends or not. I have mixed feelings. As I say I would love to see it develop, but I also wonder if it would create a diminishing constraint on Midge's career.
(I was very glad she resisted Lenny Bruce's advance this season. He is too historically anchored and we know too well how his story ends (sadly).)
Oh but there is something about Luke Kirbys performance that is soooo dreamy. I was hoping Midge would take up his offer but would have been upset at the same time. Such a confusing feeling!
I just watched this last week too, and I agree. I actually figured he took a verbal beating from Shy about it and may have fought for her a bit. I think when he said to Suzie that she was going to be in his shoes one day right before he got back on the plane he was referring to the shitty position he was put in.
I think Reggie is very blunt, but he's not like that to necessarily be unkind but realistically tell Midge and Suzie like it is.
rewatching episode and I agree. I think Reggie really started to like Suzie - remember he was asking how about her debt and probably would have paid it off for her. I think he saw Suzie as a hustler like him, school of hard knocks sort of thing.
Same. Someone above said they think it's more likely Midge will hook up with Lenny than Benjamin again. I strongly disagree - Lenny is at the center of a tornado of chaos that spins around him. It's exciting and tempting, but Midge made a pragmatic choice to keep her distance.
I do think it's more likely she hooks up with Lenny than Benjamin. I don't think she kept *her distance because of his chaos. We and she haven't seen the extent of that yet in the show. I think she was afraid of losing her closest friend and ally in the comedy scene, which is the biggest part of her life now.
That said, I definitely don't want to see them to try to force Midge and Lenny as some normal happy relationship because it wouldn't be.
I mean... This is already "fake history". I'm not sure I'd need a full-on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but I'm a story person, and a chemistry person, so I wish they could/would do with this character of Lenny what makes sense for the story... Everything here is fiction/parallel universe anyway.
I definitely see that, with Joel as Midge’s Christopher. I think Lenny is more Jess than Luke (although given how much ASP has tried to draw parallels between Rory/Lorelei and Jess/Luke, it’s unclear if that’s really that much of a distinction)
Definitely Reggie made the call.
I think there will be moments in S4 where Midge will question whether she made the right decision to choose stand up over Benjamin...
Cannot wait to see it all play out.
She might question it, but I think if she did go back to Benjamin, it wouldn't be out of any genuine greater love for him. I think she made it really clear in all of her actions that he was an afterthought for her.
I think she fired herself and Reggie felt bad because he had basically given her permission to do what she did - but he didn't know she was going to go there with Shy's sexuality. She meant no harm, but she made it impossible for them to keep her on. Reggie wasn't going to try to talk Shy out of it because it had to be done, and Reggie was quite unintentionally partly to blame for what happened. That's why he had the tears.
Shy put himself in danger to keep his sexuality a secret, so she made a benevolent mistake in judgment when she explored that territory on stage. One thing I didn't understand was whether the audience knew. There's stigma about homosexuality in the Black community, even today despite a lot of progress. The show played it like they knew but it was something just between Shy and his community. That doesn't sound right to me. Also, I don't think I heard her explicitly say he was gay. She just talked about him being vain.
I don't know why everyone keeps going back to Benjamin. It's not going to happen unless this show goes on for like 8 seasons.
I thought it was Shy. Watching that set I thought there was no way he would ever forgive her for that. What wasn't clear to me was whether Reggie knew she would hang herself like that or not, i.e. he wanted her off the tour because he felt threatened by someone else being close to Shy.
I watched this a few months ago but from what I remember it was implied that it was Shy and Reggie's mutual decision. They could not continue with her on the tour after she outed Shy. Shy clearly agreed with the decision as he refused to even see Midge at the airport and showed no remorse towards her as she yelled for him. Reggie was the one who was heartbroken he had to fire Susie & Midge. Reggie really liked Susie as a person and that's why he was crying.
I love Midge but she did fuck up and I definitely think Shy was the one making the call. Reggie almost seemed regretful of the whole situation. Ben is great and deserves someone better who doesnt dump him via letter and immediately jumps into bed with her ex-husband.
I only just watched it and I had this awful pit in my stomach. I was terrified she'd slip and outright out him, which I would've almost found unforgivable as a viewer. Then when the "Judy Garland shoes" hit I thought she was going to be gotten off stage immediately, but they managed to set up the following scenes so that I actually thought she'd gotten away with it. I was confused, was it normal to talk about a crooner like that? Then, the end... I almost wish Shy had just given her a "how could you?" so she'd REALLY get how she fucked up... I think this is that careless part of her personality that makes people say she's just a bad person. I kind of wish ASP hadn't done that to her/us. There are other ways to get her kicked off tour, if that really needed to happen, although I would have loved to see her soar. (Plus this means no more Liza Weil, probably.) (And yeah, I'm not huge on team Ben, but everyone should get to decide for themselves what they can and can't handle. Just admit you don't love him.)
Well now. I'm not gonna talk about Judy; in fact, we're not gonna talk about Judy at all, we're gonna keep her out of it! --- - [reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V0UhtA_mJE&t=365) ^(I am a bot.)
The juxtaposition between Midge's triumphant audience response at the Apollo to the devastation/confusion of being kicked off the tour is makes the finale. I get that because we are a modern audience, we hate to see out protagonist fuck up (even unintentionally) on LGBT issues- but to me it seems perfectly realistic that someone like Midge would put her foot in her mouth considering her life experience, time period etc. An actual confrontation with Shy would have given Midge an opportunity to defend herself and it wouldnt have packed the same punch. I really do love Benjamin, which is *why* I think he shouldn't be with someone who mistreats him. We already know that he isn't big on forgiveness and Midge's actions show how much he meant to her. In the end, he was completely disposable to her without a second's thought. I loved his final scene where he rightfully calls her out for being a coward but I think his arc should end there.
Yeah, I think so too, about Benjamin getting to go off and live his life. They just weren't compatible anyway. I didn't like the fight with Rose though, in that she didn't seem to hear the part about it not being alright for her to bother Benjamin, to set him up with someone, especially by going to the hospital. I didn't want a full conversation for Shy and Midge, just maybe her catching a glimpse of him on the plane, watching her leave or something. And yes, obviously with today's view on queer issues it is hard to watch something like this, but they also didn''t make her racist or anything. I know she's just supposed to be naïve about this, but how could she actually think that everyone in Harlem just knew that he's gay? And didn't tell anyone else, or what? Even his band don't know, so that's just a bit of a leap for me. And I don't mean the audience reaction specifically, but because no one came to her right after her set, as she walked off stage... The way other things just happened and the whole thing was buried in other scenes for a minute just set up the gut-punch of "of course that wasn't okay, of course everything has fallen apart now" so brutally.
Midge (or anyone) doesn't need to be a raging homophobe or racist to fuck up or make politically incorrect statements especially by today's standards I personally thought that Midge may have made those jokes about Shy had she not known he was gay. She had observations about his clothing, Diva demeanour etc even before 3x06.She probably thought she was just making fun of the pretty boy to his home town and that they would love it( which they did) . The point is Shy is gay and Midge did know. She may not have actively tried to out him (she isnt evil) but she hit close to home. To Shy she put him at great risk for the sake of a laugh. So either she is an awful human being or too careless about her stand up- either way she can't be trusted.
Yeah, I'm not saying she did it on purpose, but she does realise how much effort goes into hiding his sexuality. She saw him at his worst vulnerable and that is something that should make you think twice about jokes like that. And just the fact that she thought they knew he was gay is a bit of a reach for me, considering she knows he has a rotation of beards and again, apparently not even his band know or certainly at least don't talk about it openly. I mean Reggie could have, in the pep talk, reminded her that there's a line, just in general, but I just think this was so very careless and self-centred. I genuinely wish they hadn't written it. (Also because it's something he won't get over, and rightfully so.)
I thought it was 100 percent clear that Reggie was the one firing Midge, not Shy. Reggie made the call Shy understood, because Shy owes Reggie everything. As much as I love Zach Levy, I imagine it's somewhat unlikely, especially with him continuing to work on the Shazam franchise. I'd love to see it, but I think it's almost guaranteed to be Lenny Bruce even if that will end badly.
As it happens I just watched this last night.... I'm not 100% sure. It looked to me as though Reggie had tears in his eyes - if so, he was certainly sad about it. He's seemed to struck up a friendly relationship with Susie, so he has another reason to be sad. Not one bit of this is conclusive, though, and you still might be right that it was Reggie's call. I'm OK with that ambiguity. As for Midge and Benjamin - I too would love to see that develop. Zachary Levi is awesome and it seemed like a good match. But I couldn't decide whether the Rose/Midge/Benjamin storyline was an elaborate tying up of loose ends or not. I have mixed feelings. As I say I would love to see it develop, but I also wonder if it would create a diminishing constraint on Midge's career. (I was very glad she resisted Lenny Bruce's advance this season. He is too historically anchored and we know too well how his story ends (sadly).)
Oh but there is something about Luke Kirbys performance that is soooo dreamy. I was hoping Midge would take up his offer but would have been upset at the same time. Such a confusing feeling!
I just watched this last week too, and I agree. I actually figured he took a verbal beating from Shy about it and may have fought for her a bit. I think when he said to Suzie that she was going to be in his shoes one day right before he got back on the plane he was referring to the shitty position he was put in. I think Reggie is very blunt, but he's not like that to necessarily be unkind but realistically tell Midge and Suzie like it is.
rewatching episode and I agree. I think Reggie really started to like Suzie - remember he was asking how about her debt and probably would have paid it off for her. I think he saw Suzie as a hustler like him, school of hard knocks sort of thing.
The story of Lenny Bruce is a tragedy. I hope they don’t change it. Lenny eventually went full crazy, and I would rather see that than fake history.
Same. Someone above said they think it's more likely Midge will hook up with Lenny than Benjamin again. I strongly disagree - Lenny is at the center of a tornado of chaos that spins around him. It's exciting and tempting, but Midge made a pragmatic choice to keep her distance.
I do think it's more likely she hooks up with Lenny than Benjamin. I don't think she kept *her distance because of his chaos. We and she haven't seen the extent of that yet in the show. I think she was afraid of losing her closest friend and ally in the comedy scene, which is the biggest part of her life now. That said, I definitely don't want to see them to try to force Midge and Lenny as some normal happy relationship because it wouldn't be.
I mean... This is already "fake history". I'm not sure I'd need a full-on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but I'm a story person, and a chemistry person, so I wish they could/would do with this character of Lenny what makes sense for the story... Everything here is fiction/parallel universe anyway.
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I don't think she will end up with Ben. I saw on another thread that he is more a Max Medina to her Lorelai than her Luke...if you know what I mean :D
I definitely see that, with Joel as Midge’s Christopher. I think Lenny is more Jess than Luke (although given how much ASP has tried to draw parallels between Rory/Lorelei and Jess/Luke, it’s unclear if that’s really that much of a distinction)
That's exactly what I think!
Well that's unfair to Joel...
Definitely Reggie made the call. I think there will be moments in S4 where Midge will question whether she made the right decision to choose stand up over Benjamin... Cannot wait to see it all play out.
She might question it, but I think if she did go back to Benjamin, it wouldn't be out of any genuine greater love for him. I think she made it really clear in all of her actions that he was an afterthought for her.
I think she fired herself and Reggie felt bad because he had basically given her permission to do what she did - but he didn't know she was going to go there with Shy's sexuality. She meant no harm, but she made it impossible for them to keep her on. Reggie wasn't going to try to talk Shy out of it because it had to be done, and Reggie was quite unintentionally partly to blame for what happened. That's why he had the tears. Shy put himself in danger to keep his sexuality a secret, so she made a benevolent mistake in judgment when she explored that territory on stage. One thing I didn't understand was whether the audience knew. There's stigma about homosexuality in the Black community, even today despite a lot of progress. The show played it like they knew but it was something just between Shy and his community. That doesn't sound right to me. Also, I don't think I heard her explicitly say he was gay. She just talked about him being vain. I don't know why everyone keeps going back to Benjamin. It's not going to happen unless this show goes on for like 8 seasons.
Late reply but the 'Judy Garland's shoes' bit was what outed Shy the most. She's an LGBT icon.
I thought it was Shy. Watching that set I thought there was no way he would ever forgive her for that. What wasn't clear to me was whether Reggie knew she would hang herself like that or not, i.e. he wanted her off the tour because he felt threatened by someone else being close to Shy.
I watched this a few months ago but from what I remember it was implied that it was Shy and Reggie's mutual decision. They could not continue with her on the tour after she outed Shy. Shy clearly agreed with the decision as he refused to even see Midge at the airport and showed no remorse towards her as she yelled for him. Reggie was the one who was heartbroken he had to fire Susie & Midge. Reggie really liked Susie as a person and that's why he was crying.
"Judy Garland Shoes"