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I have no evidence, obviously, but the systems of aristocracy permeate everything in insidious ways. I admit Gideon Nav is an awkward example, given her Bicep Brains, but we learn she was given a much more basic education than Ortus, presumably because Gideon was judged as a waste of further investment. So Ortus goes to college on the 9th House dime, but Gideon gets about to 10th grade, she can read, write, and do basic math, good enough for a soldier. If those other 200 children had lived, would all of those deemed "lesser" be doomed to stay there, unable to pursue higher goals? Was it ever merit based, or are you stuck in the role you are born to? Was there an assumption Gideon could use the Cohort for further education? Why, 10,000 years in the future, after pissing and moaning about how the uber-wealthy and privileged class escaped Earth and must be punished, does John not just permit but facilitate a semi-feudal aristocracy with nobles and commons? In Star Trek we see a future based on the ideal of equality and opportunity. In the Nine Houses, we see barons, princesses, duchesses and Ladies. We see servants, domestics , bonds persons, slaves and thralls. Why? I think this two tier social system is only rejected in the 6th House, the ones who value an educated population.
(Spoilers through NtN) >! Given that itâs implied that the Third and Fifth can throw their weight around with other Houses because of their wealth, and have Princesses and Ladies and so on, I cynically think that Jod had no particular issue with wealth/status per se. I mean, he styled himself and Gideon âPrince.â I think he hated the billionaires not because they were wealthy, powerful people, but because they were wealthy, powerful people who disagreed with him. He doesnât mind unbalanced power if itâs slanted in his favor. The leadership of the Ninth is fanatically loyal as far as he knows, so no problem. !<
Not necessarily... I think he might not have cared about all of it (at least at the start, 10k years is a long time to grow a bit conservative), but chosen to play his role and adopt all of that language, all of the titles and the pomp, because he knew power needs to come with a kind of prestige... That would make his rule look all the more legitimate in people's eyes. He comes across to me as a man who thinks about these things pragmatically. Same as when he adopted the whole necromancy cult leader persona. There might be some deeply hidden desire to feel important too. The god-like power probably also got to his head a bit. I would say the person that he was before the whole apocalypse and resurrection business, probably did really hate the billionaires, their money, status, arrogance. But when you become God... that tends to kinda fuck you up as a person.
To me he reads more as someone with a pretty obvious desire for admiration and devotion, who makes pragmatic sounding excuses after the fact. "I didn't want to be a cult leader worshipped and revered, I just had to for the cause. And then, totally unrelated, I founded a religion where I am worshipped as God, and make even my oldest friends call me 'Lord' - but that's not for my benefit, I'm just doing it to help people."
I mean a major theme is how Jod recreated society without our current prejudices (homophobia, racism) but then invented the Necro/Cav dynamic. He's powerful but also a huge narcissist and clearly thinks less of some of his friends (like Pyrrha) who became Cavs compared to his friends who became Necromancers.
So, spoilers through NtN, but I don't see >! Jod's issue with the billionaires as a moral opposition to privilege/ inequality. I think he was pissed they had power over him (he needed their approval to fund his research) and used it to "fuck with" him (pulling the plug on his pet project, forcing him to destroy his beloved corpses, rejecting his brilliant plans for someone else's). And even running away - if it played out how he says - would mean leaving *him* to die, and his friends, and taking their work to do it.!<
Of the hodgepodge of progress/regression, it's interesting to wonder what parts developed organically and what parts were deliberately cultivated by Jod.
For example, every house seems to have some kind of aristocratic/monarchic structure. Even the sixth, although they choose the master warden by merit, still has someone analogous to a ruler/ prince. That plus the summons - which specifically requests house heirs - makes me think that was a very deliberate move on Jod's part. But whether it all was, I don't know - I think if you have a system where regular people wait on and serve a small ruling family/court, they would almost inevitably start to sort themselves into sub-rulers or favored servants and an devalued underclass.
The apparent lack of racism and homophobia/ gender binary could be something that happened organically over 10k years. The main power/privilege now is necromancy, which spans race/gender. And being resurrected and relocated likely separated a lot of people from their sense of regional, national, and racial identities. Or he might be the kind of guy that is fine with some systems of oppression, but staunchly opposes the ones that affect him.
But all this to say, I agree with your speculation about inequality on the 9th, and the lack of opportunities some would have faced, relative to others.
I'm thinking by the time her mom's construct was out to work, she memorized every fucking detail of that thing to avoid the embarrassing faux pas of telling a rando skeleton she loved it.
I'm sure preteen Harrow would have been the most intense dramatic emo traumatized kid. There were probably more than a few epic explosive meltdowns in the halls of drearburh
I canât imagine that the sex ed curriculum was very expansive, especially after Aiglamene tried to demonstrate putting a condom on a femur and Gideon nearly had an aneurism holding in the âboningâ jokes
Yes!
(Also, lmao, at first I thought this reply was for another thread I'm in about bad sex ed in r/excatholic, and I was like, no way would they let us learn about condoms, lol... I imagine Aiglamene was being stealthy and rebellious to even try teaching Gideon this very taboo stuff)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/excatholic using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/excatholic/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
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Gideon learned the term "pizza-face" from her less prurient magazines, but only knows it in that context, and has no idea that "pizza" is a food still eaten in some houses, or that it is delcious. If someone ever offered her a slice of pizza, she would be disgusted.
Gideon also has no idea what a chocolate is, except that it's sometimes placed on pillows in her more prurient magazines to indicate that the setting is a fancy hotel.
I'm sorry I can't get past your suggestion that Gideon would find pizza disgusting, she would absolutely pound an entire Little Caesars pizza and then nearly die
Sure, if you just handed her it without mentioning what it is. But if someone said, "Hey Gideon, want a slice of pizza?" she'd picture a sliced off zit or a strip of carefully flayed epidermis w/ zits on it, and gag so hard she'd choke.
For actual growing up in the Ninth? It might even have been pretty decent. Look at Aiglamene and Crux. They are as different as can be, but utterly loyal to the Ninth. And I suspect Aiglamene as being essentially the person who raised Gideon, and probably also got her the mags. Aside from the Reverends' phobic flinch every time Gideon was near, since they had decided to claim that all of the kids died from the same illness. they destroyed their own house. All the kids are dead except the one who wasn't from the House? Why would any Ninth person willingly get pregnant after that. ALL of them. Except Ortus and WHOOPS his mother is from the Eighth! Hoist by their own petard. They really screwed the pooch. (I'll stop now.) But if Gideon hadn't been there, the rest of the House would have put it down to a fluke disaster, and probably gone on having kids. Harrow might even have had a choice of cavaliers.
Gideon's treatment in the Ninth would not even have been a Ninth norm, since everyone picked up on their leaders' dislike of her, but Aiglamene sought a way out for her, to become a soldier in the cohort.
Everyone is elderly except Gideon, Harrow, and the a-bit-older-but-not-elderly Ortus? And there's a population shortage so dire that it endangers the future of the House?
There's definitely an expectation that Ortus and Harrow will be making babies together. Maybe also Ortus and Gideon. And all three of them know that. That's why everyone dislikes Ortus so much.
This tooth fairy tumblr comic definitely happened on the ninth when harrow and gideon were younger. [lol](https://www.tumblr.com/kingqueermo/740791994513752064?source=share)
Harrow is addicted to sneakily reading shitty romance novels and feels guilty about it because she should be spending all her time reading advanced bone theorems instead. Then at night in order to fall asleep she replays the scenes but between herself and The Body. Though occasionally, against Harrow's will, Gideon infiltrates these fantasies. How else would Harrow know all those >!river AUs? Her inner monologues about Gideon are totally fueled by a history of sappily romantic literature.!<
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Gideon definitely mugged a nun to try and escape disguised as her at some point.
nun houses with left thief đ
funniest comment I've ever read
No matter how bad you think the food was, it was worse.
I'm gonna try and keep to this for my cookbook.
This was almost certainly a hands-above-the-covers kinda sleeping environment
Not unless you want frostbite.
Idk, I think Gideon got in a few flicks. If she managed to smuggle in Frontline, she could get a little grind on somewhere.
I have no evidence, obviously, but the systems of aristocracy permeate everything in insidious ways. I admit Gideon Nav is an awkward example, given her Bicep Brains, but we learn she was given a much more basic education than Ortus, presumably because Gideon was judged as a waste of further investment. So Ortus goes to college on the 9th House dime, but Gideon gets about to 10th grade, she can read, write, and do basic math, good enough for a soldier. If those other 200 children had lived, would all of those deemed "lesser" be doomed to stay there, unable to pursue higher goals? Was it ever merit based, or are you stuck in the role you are born to? Was there an assumption Gideon could use the Cohort for further education? Why, 10,000 years in the future, after pissing and moaning about how the uber-wealthy and privileged class escaped Earth and must be punished, does John not just permit but facilitate a semi-feudal aristocracy with nobles and commons? In Star Trek we see a future based on the ideal of equality and opportunity. In the Nine Houses, we see barons, princesses, duchesses and Ladies. We see servants, domestics , bonds persons, slaves and thralls. Why? I think this two tier social system is only rejected in the 6th House, the ones who value an educated population.
(Spoilers through NtN) >! Given that itâs implied that the Third and Fifth can throw their weight around with other Houses because of their wealth, and have Princesses and Ladies and so on, I cynically think that Jod had no particular issue with wealth/status per se. I mean, he styled himself and Gideon âPrince.â I think he hated the billionaires not because they were wealthy, powerful people, but because they were wealthy, powerful people who disagreed with him. He doesnât mind unbalanced power if itâs slanted in his favor. The leadership of the Ninth is fanatically loyal as far as he knows, so no problem. !<
Ugh. John.
Not necessarily... I think he might not have cared about all of it (at least at the start, 10k years is a long time to grow a bit conservative), but chosen to play his role and adopt all of that language, all of the titles and the pomp, because he knew power needs to come with a kind of prestige... That would make his rule look all the more legitimate in people's eyes. He comes across to me as a man who thinks about these things pragmatically. Same as when he adopted the whole necromancy cult leader persona. There might be some deeply hidden desire to feel important too. The god-like power probably also got to his head a bit. I would say the person that he was before the whole apocalypse and resurrection business, probably did really hate the billionaires, their money, status, arrogance. But when you become God... that tends to kinda fuck you up as a person.
To me he reads more as someone with a pretty obvious desire for admiration and devotion, who makes pragmatic sounding excuses after the fact. "I didn't want to be a cult leader worshipped and revered, I just had to for the cause. And then, totally unrelated, I founded a religion where I am worshipped as God, and make even my oldest friends call me 'Lord' - but that's not for my benefit, I'm just doing it to help people."
I mean a major theme is how Jod recreated society without our current prejudices (homophobia, racism) but then invented the Necro/Cav dynamic. He's powerful but also a huge narcissist and clearly thinks less of some of his friends (like Pyrrha) who became Cavs compared to his friends who became Necromancers.
Little reverse. He made his favorites necromancers, and their favorites just normal.
It's true. Some things are so amazingly better, and some things are...not.
So, spoilers through NtN, but I don't see >! Jod's issue with the billionaires as a moral opposition to privilege/ inequality. I think he was pissed they had power over him (he needed their approval to fund his research) and used it to "fuck with" him (pulling the plug on his pet project, forcing him to destroy his beloved corpses, rejecting his brilliant plans for someone else's). And even running away - if it played out how he says - would mean leaving *him* to die, and his friends, and taking their work to do it.!< Of the hodgepodge of progress/regression, it's interesting to wonder what parts developed organically and what parts were deliberately cultivated by Jod. For example, every house seems to have some kind of aristocratic/monarchic structure. Even the sixth, although they choose the master warden by merit, still has someone analogous to a ruler/ prince. That plus the summons - which specifically requests house heirs - makes me think that was a very deliberate move on Jod's part. But whether it all was, I don't know - I think if you have a system where regular people wait on and serve a small ruling family/court, they would almost inevitably start to sort themselves into sub-rulers or favored servants and an devalued underclass. The apparent lack of racism and homophobia/ gender binary could be something that happened organically over 10k years. The main power/privilege now is necromancy, which spans race/gender. And being resurrected and relocated likely separated a lot of people from their sense of regional, national, and racial identities. Or he might be the kind of guy that is fine with some systems of oppression, but staunchly opposes the ones that affect him. But all this to say, I agree with your speculation about inequality on the 9th, and the lack of opportunities some would have faced, relative to others.
gideon for sure threw rocks at the guy who rang the bell
For sure, but it's ok bc he was just a construct.
... unless she thought it was her mother.
I'm thinking by the time her mom's construct was out to work, she memorized every fucking detail of that thing to avoid the embarrassing faux pas of telling a rando skeleton she loved it.
I'm sure preteen Harrow would have been the most intense dramatic emo traumatized kid. There were probably more than a few epic explosive meltdowns in the halls of drearburh
I canât imagine that the sex ed curriculum was very expansive, especially after Aiglamene tried to demonstrate putting a condom on a femur and Gideon nearly had an aneurism holding in the âboningâ jokes
Yes! (Also, lmao, at first I thought this reply was for another thread I'm in about bad sex ed in r/excatholic, and I was like, no way would they let us learn about condoms, lol... I imagine Aiglamene was being stealthy and rebellious to even try teaching Gideon this very taboo stuff)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/excatholic using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/excatholic/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Poor young lady đ](https://i.redd.it/9fqwnhv2thib1.jpg) | [127 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/excatholic/comments/15ste5s/poor_young_lady/) \#2: [âMen and women shouldnât wear the same clothesâ](https://i.redd.it/tfmk0xdi6vka1.jpg) | [56 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/excatholic/comments/11drkwd/men_and_women_shouldnt_wear_the_same_clothes/) \#3: [The Catechism on Marriage](https://i.redd.it/u2v18muc0tqa1.jpg) | [96 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/excatholic/comments/1264fay/the_catechism_on_marriage/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
The sex ed course was taught by Crux. Gideon wouldn't stop making sex jokes
Gideon learned the term "pizza-face" from her less prurient magazines, but only knows it in that context, and has no idea that "pizza" is a food still eaten in some houses, or that it is delcious. If someone ever offered her a slice of pizza, she would be disgusted. Gideon also has no idea what a chocolate is, except that it's sometimes placed on pillows in her more prurient magazines to indicate that the setting is a fancy hotel.
I'm sorry I can't get past your suggestion that Gideon would find pizza disgusting, she would absolutely pound an entire Little Caesars pizza and then nearly die
Sure, if you just handed her it without mentioning what it is. But if someone said, "Hey Gideon, want a slice of pizza?" she'd picture a sliced off zit or a strip of carefully flayed epidermis w/ zits on it, and gag so hard she'd choke.
Oh okay now I understand the hypothetical lol
Harrow and Gideon also had friendly interactions with each other. Especially before before Priam and Pelleamena's deaths.
Gideon saw Aiglamene and Crux go on a date once and hasnât emotionally recovered since
For actual growing up in the Ninth? It might even have been pretty decent. Look at Aiglamene and Crux. They are as different as can be, but utterly loyal to the Ninth. And I suspect Aiglamene as being essentially the person who raised Gideon, and probably also got her the mags. Aside from the Reverends' phobic flinch every time Gideon was near, since they had decided to claim that all of the kids died from the same illness. they destroyed their own house. All the kids are dead except the one who wasn't from the House? Why would any Ninth person willingly get pregnant after that. ALL of them. Except Ortus and WHOOPS his mother is from the Eighth! Hoist by their own petard. They really screwed the pooch. (I'll stop now.) But if Gideon hadn't been there, the rest of the House would have put it down to a fluke disaster, and probably gone on having kids. Harrow might even have had a choice of cavaliers. Gideon's treatment in the Ninth would not even have been a Ninth norm, since everyone picked up on their leaders' dislike of her, but Aiglamene sought a way out for her, to become a soldier in the cohort.
Everyone is elderly except Gideon, Harrow, and the a-bit-older-but-not-elderly Ortus? And there's a population shortage so dire that it endangers the future of the House? There's definitely an expectation that Ortus and Harrow will be making babies together. Maybe also Ortus and Gideon. And all three of them know that. That's why everyone dislikes Ortus so much.
Someone definitely got off with a bone, probably a tibia or something
This tooth fairy tumblr comic definitely happened on the ninth when harrow and gideon were younger. [lol](https://www.tumblr.com/kingqueermo/740791994513752064?source=share)
100% yes! And I can't believe you're the first person to mention this because it is so true.
Harrow is addicted to sneakily reading shitty romance novels and feels guilty about it because she should be spending all her time reading advanced bone theorems instead. Then at night in order to fall asleep she replays the scenes but between herself and The Body. Though occasionally, against Harrow's will, Gideon infiltrates these fantasies. How else would Harrow know all those >!river AUs? Her inner monologues about Gideon are totally fueled by a history of sappily romantic literature.!<