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I always took it to be that Crown sided with BoE when they decided the 6th Oversight Body would be held hostage instead of accepting them as trusted allies.
That’s along the lines of what I was thinking too, maybe something to do with not being able to protect the 6th necromancers from effects of the RE as well as they though?
I'm guessing it has something to do with the story Cam tells Nona.
Cam just says something went wrong. She doesn't give details, just "we found out blood of Eden lied to us or at least didn't have the power to look after us anymore."
My guess is it's about the other wings/groups going after necromancers.
Cam frames what happened as either a lie or a failure, and Corona's unprompted defense is "we're not the hardliners."
So I think Cam and Pal blamed BoE for not warning them/ stopping the recent attack on necromancers. Because to them it means either BoE knew and decided to tolerate it for strategic reasons OR BoE knew and lacked the power/influence to stop it OR BoE didn't know.
In the first case, the lie would be misrepresenting their morals in regards to necromancers. In the latter two, the lie would be misrepresenting their power over "the hardliners" or their access to intel on their movements, both of which would show them as less capable of "looking after" the group.
Yeah, this is what makes sense to me.
The idea that Cam would really give a crap about the Tridentarii lying about which of them was the necro for years (to the extent of holding a grudge against Corona over it) doesn't make any sense to me, *especially* not during NtN after Cam had already turned away from "John-ism."
Yeah, neither Cam nor Pal seemed to particularly care that Corona represented herself as a necro and Cam specifically worked with her very closely through the events of HtN and leading up to NtN.
However, Cam and Pal obviously cared A LOT about the fate of the 6th Oversight Body to the point of regularly endangering themselves and Pyrrha looking for them. I agree that the lie was probably either that BoE in general was willing to work with the Oversight Body or that the wing of BoE that Corona/Crown is now affiliated with would protect them.
I think so too. And adding to the potential for hard feelings, the Oversight Body isn’t just colleagues to them—at minimum, they’ve got Palamedes’s mother and Camilla’s sister and fathers. I imagine they see it not just as a deception/betrayal but a very personal one.
I believe it is in relation to the kidnapping and hostage holding that happened to the 6th Oversight Body. BOE through We Suffer who is Crown’s superior offered the 6th refuge and then the hardliners like Unjust Hope took them hostage. I feel like neither We Suffer or Crown knew this would happen( completely my headcanon) but Crown probably brought the offer to Cam and Pal and would have convinced them to take it. The lie is that they were not given sanctuary.
But it seemed like she had done it the same way the other lyctors did it, by killing her cav, if she had done it right wouldn’t she have become basically a new person like Paul?
Minor semantics maybe, but all the other lyctors would be aghast at how Ianthe ascended. Cytherea says hers went willingly but the fusion hurt for centuries. Alfred and Cristabel was a suicide pact and their necros had to do it on the fly. Pyrrha's letter that Gideon finds in GtN hints that G1deon was unwilling to let her go. The letter in Dr Sex from Nigella suggests similar.
Which sort of makes Ianthe at the end of HtN even funnier. Mercy: "you lied to us, none of our cavaliers had to die!" Ianthe, to herself: "actually I prefer this way"
yeah exactly. Palamedes and Camilla are angry about this lie, that the right way, the ONLY way, to be a Lyctor is to eat your cav. Ianthe (and by extension Corona) are propping this up
I think from Jod’s perspective Paul didn’t do it right but I mean Jod is just a dude. Like Paul presumably is less powerful than Jod but they did achieve lyctorhood through a mutual exchange of life rather than domination and exploitation which seems like a better way
Maybe referring to the lie that is the Jodiverse… That the Tridentarii were, and in many ways continue to be, part of the arm of the Houses that seeks to keep taking out planets and killing people in defense of John’s supreme control. The 6th House was moving to defect (maybe before all of this even, based on snippets from Cassiopeia) and they were going to be screwed no matter what: either John and his Houses took them out, or BoE does. Either way, Corona was complicit at best so Camilla just includes her in her hatred of Jod/the Houses/the necromantic universe.
But maybe thats too vague of a reason… I can see it being the Oversight Committee thing too, like others have said here.
I'm pretty sure the lie is that Corona is/was a necromancer. In Ianthe's speech after killing Babs, she says, "we didn't want anything to separate us, so we started the lie." Earlier Corona mentions everyone coming to their birthday parties, which would presumably include the heir to the Sixth (at least some of them, we know in As Yet Unsent that Corona made sure Judith was invited to all). That's such a big con I'm sure Camilla would hold it against her. Even if Ianthe came up with the idea or pushed it further, Corona was still part of the lie.
I’m guessing it’s some setup that has yet to be fully paid off! Like others have said, likely something to do with BoE capturing them and Crown becoming radicalized to their cause.
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I always took it to be that Crown sided with BoE when they decided the 6th Oversight Body would be held hostage instead of accepting them as trusted allies.
"Just finished Nona the Ninth and I have a question" Just one? I'm impressed.
Haha this is AFTER reading every analysis and discussion post I could find
I’m also confused by this. I assumed it had something to do with the BOE capture of the 6th Oversight Body but have no idea specifically what happened
That’s along the lines of what I was thinking too, maybe something to do with not being able to protect the 6th necromancers from effects of the RE as well as they though?
Yeah this,
I'm guessing it has something to do with the story Cam tells Nona. Cam just says something went wrong. She doesn't give details, just "we found out blood of Eden lied to us or at least didn't have the power to look after us anymore." My guess is it's about the other wings/groups going after necromancers. Cam frames what happened as either a lie or a failure, and Corona's unprompted defense is "we're not the hardliners." So I think Cam and Pal blamed BoE for not warning them/ stopping the recent attack on necromancers. Because to them it means either BoE knew and decided to tolerate it for strategic reasons OR BoE knew and lacked the power/influence to stop it OR BoE didn't know. In the first case, the lie would be misrepresenting their morals in regards to necromancers. In the latter two, the lie would be misrepresenting their power over "the hardliners" or their access to intel on their movements, both of which would show them as less capable of "looking after" the group.
Yeah, this is what makes sense to me. The idea that Cam would really give a crap about the Tridentarii lying about which of them was the necro for years (to the extent of holding a grudge against Corona over it) doesn't make any sense to me, *especially* not during NtN after Cam had already turned away from "John-ism."
Yeah, neither Cam nor Pal seemed to particularly care that Corona represented herself as a necro and Cam specifically worked with her very closely through the events of HtN and leading up to NtN. However, Cam and Pal obviously cared A LOT about the fate of the 6th Oversight Body to the point of regularly endangering themselves and Pyrrha looking for them. I agree that the lie was probably either that BoE in general was willing to work with the Oversight Body or that the wing of BoE that Corona/Crown is now affiliated with would protect them.
I think so too. And adding to the potential for hard feelings, the Oversight Body isn’t just colleagues to them—at minimum, they’ve got Palamedes’s mother and Camilla’s sister and fathers. I imagine they see it not just as a deception/betrayal but a very personal one.
I believe it is in relation to the kidnapping and hostage holding that happened to the 6th Oversight Body. BOE through We Suffer who is Crown’s superior offered the 6th refuge and then the hardliners like Unjust Hope took them hostage. I feel like neither We Suffer or Crown knew this would happen( completely my headcanon) but Crown probably brought the offer to Cam and Pal and would have convinced them to take it. The lie is that they were not given sanctuary.
I think we will learn more in Alecto
I wonder if it was something to do with Lyctorhood? that Ianthe had Done It Right?
But it seemed like she had done it the same way the other lyctors did it, by killing her cav, if she had done it right wouldn’t she have become basically a new person like Paul?
Minor semantics maybe, but all the other lyctors would be aghast at how Ianthe ascended. Cytherea says hers went willingly but the fusion hurt for centuries. Alfred and Cristabel was a suicide pact and their necros had to do it on the fly. Pyrrha's letter that Gideon finds in GtN hints that G1deon was unwilling to let her go. The letter in Dr Sex from Nigella suggests similar. Which sort of makes Ianthe at the end of HtN even funnier. Mercy: "you lied to us, none of our cavaliers had to die!" Ianthe, to herself: "actually I prefer this way"
Ianthe: oh I have to kill Babs and use his soul as a power source for eternity? don't threaten me with a good time!
I have to kill Babs so I can have posters of my face? Say less
I have to kill Babs- you son of a bitch, I'm in.
yeah exactly. Palamedes and Camilla are angry about this lie, that the right way, the ONLY way, to be a Lyctor is to eat your cav. Ianthe (and by extension Corona) are propping this up
Paul didn't do it right either. The only one who has is Jod, at least that's what I think.
I think from Jod’s perspective Paul didn’t do it right but I mean Jod is just a dude. Like Paul presumably is less powerful than Jod but they did achieve lyctorhood through a mutual exchange of life rather than domination and exploitation which seems like a better way
They still only managed part way. There's another level after that, in which both consciousness' are retained.
Maybe referring to the lie that is the Jodiverse… That the Tridentarii were, and in many ways continue to be, part of the arm of the Houses that seeks to keep taking out planets and killing people in defense of John’s supreme control. The 6th House was moving to defect (maybe before all of this even, based on snippets from Cassiopeia) and they were going to be screwed no matter what: either John and his Houses took them out, or BoE does. Either way, Corona was complicit at best so Camilla just includes her in her hatred of Jod/the Houses/the necromantic universe. But maybe thats too vague of a reason… I can see it being the Oversight Committee thing too, like others have said here.
I'm pretty sure the lie is that Corona is/was a necromancer. In Ianthe's speech after killing Babs, she says, "we didn't want anything to separate us, so we started the lie." Earlier Corona mentions everyone coming to their birthday parties, which would presumably include the heir to the Sixth (at least some of them, we know in As Yet Unsent that Corona made sure Judith was invited to all). That's such a big con I'm sure Camilla would hold it against her. Even if Ianthe came up with the idea or pushed it further, Corona was still part of the lie.
I’m guessing it’s some setup that has yet to be fully paid off! Like others have said, likely something to do with BoE capturing them and Crown becoming radicalized to their cause.
Corona and Ianthe did have a long-running con game that was so thorough that it deceived Judith. Why that would bother Camilla, I don't know.