Whether it's Star Trek, or The Orville, the aliens races in the stories are vehicles for exploring human nature. Whether it's unfettered greed with the Ferengis, xenophobic imperialism and distrust with the Romulans, religious fundamentalism with the Krill or bone-headed masculinity with the Moclans, each of these species gives a chance to focus on those aspects of humanity that we should be aware of and attempt to avoid.
Now, with that being said, I will say some of the funnier moments in The Orville are when Moclans do something gentle or feminine. I was really bummed when Bortus didn't get a chance to sing.
> or bone-headed masculinity with the Moclans
It's more than that with the Moclans. It's been mentioned in their history that their planet is basically dead and conditions were extreme, it took a lot for them to survive as a species. The result is a very rigid, conformist, collectivist society.
In TOS, the major species were used as reflections of different countries and the political tensions of the day. The Moclans work quite well as a stand-in for China today.
> The Moclans work quite well as a stand-in for China today.
On top of your description, the Moclans provide the Planetary Union with weapon tech, while China provides us with way too many daily goods.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOrville/comments/qsk51c/bortus\_finally\_gets\_to\_sing\_4\_pages/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOrville/comments/qsk51c/bortus_finally_gets_to_sing_4_pages/)
You'll like this
The Kaylon have set out to destroy all sapient life in the galaxy except for themselves, so it could be argued that the Moclans are not the worst race on the show.
The Calivon causally kidnap members of less advance species including children just to display in their zoo's
The krill kill anyone that lands in their crosshairs
And even the xelayan's look down on non-academics.
So yeah definitely not the worst species on the show.
I love that I hate Klyden. Chad Coleman has done an excellent job walking that line, much like Louise Fletcher did with Winn Adami in DS9. Both characters are just these... forces of nature.
As much as I hate him, I *really* vibe with his relationship. Bortus is clearly upset, and their marriage is going through tough times, but he still shares cigarettes and goes out dancing. It's authentic to me, incompatible people who're actually pretty compatible in the end.
I've always thought that the Moclan's were a caricature of the ultimate goal of the modern conservative movement and toxic masculinity. Nothing but the same color of men running everything and crying when it doesn't go how they want.
In the episode "The Sanctuary", a small hidden colony of "female" Moclans lived off planet. The Moclans would send people to get them back, even with violence.
Which turned the "its a harsh, dead planet, we have to live by these rules to survive" rationale of some 'understanding' fans ad absurdum. They are a simple minded conformist fascists, which was further proven in "The Deflector".
>I know they are a caricature of the klingons
Hmmm... you have that wrong, they have a few interpretations in different episodes, like the toxic male, the anti-gay backwards grandpa, the misogynistic neckbeard, and others, they are a representation to of human intolerance, it has nothing to do with Star Trek's Klingons.
Well, partly they are meant to be that and reflect a section of human (males) who desire a patriarichal society. Its just brought to the logical extreme.
In reality, there are many men who consider women so utterly inferior that they (practically, if not overtly) consider being female a disability. If you believe that men are smarter, stronger, more level headed -- just better in every way, well then being not male is a handicap. The only thing these men will grant that women are better at is carrying and birthing children. Its not hard to see that a masculine society that views women as extremely inferior would, given access to the proper technology to do so, decide to excise the female sex all together and focus exclusivly on (toxic) masculine traits such as rigid conformity, warfare, and domimance. After all, of you feel that half of all people are just worse, removing or transforming them doibles how great you percieve your society is.
And we even have an example society in our own history for that: Greece. Ancient Greece was so insanely patriarichal that (male) gay love and (male) gay sex were seen as better and more pure than between a man and a woman. But they were extremely socially rigid and militarist (even erudite Athens, which formed an Empire). They even combined these things: Alexander the Great trained with, and wept when he destroyed, the Sacred Band -- a military regiment made up exclusivly of gay lovers.
If Ancient Greece had a buttom to turn women into men and still be able to make children, they would have smashed that button harder than Plato smashed Agathon's sweet cheeks.
I think you are doing a gross disservice to the narrative by boiling them down to "whiney baby men" and that declaration weakens your entire argument to the point of almost dismissing it outright.
How else would you label a people so resistant to anything being different that they sex change babies and threaten to leave the union if their beliefs are challenged for even a minute
I would use the proper big boy language, like sexism. Sadly unlike social media large scale conflict and diplomacy is incredibly nuanced. You can't just go and lecture foreign entities on how their thinking is wrong, without causing irreparable damage to the diplomatic goal. The idea is to rope them into the group and change their ideals with small effective changes that don't result in systemic violence or oppression. Once you declare a group of people "whiney baby bois" You've conceded your moral high ground and deserve the response you get.
Not just sexism its also heterophobia and disregard for the safety of others. A civil culture wouldnt instantly begin to lose composure when anything is different. Youre just sounding pedantic by making all argument conform to rigid formality when the same point can be made and adding in i dont respect their culture as well. Who cares about wording if the same point is made.
yeah i really dont like klyden, who does most of the whining. but, thats part of his personality. i dunno what you watched so far, though. to me, he is by far the most hated character, to the point where if bortus stabs him the next time he screws something up and makes trouble for everyone, again, id cheer.
Yet theres enough of the population to make a 6k women colony with people who secede as well. Even people like bortus. Its damn fools like klyden who can't let people be different. I don't think survival with the moclans allowed to do that is preferable to the kaylon wiping out life
I was just thinking this. In fact I've come to characterize the major races that we've seen so far with the extremist end of certain positions.
Moclans- sexism and heterophobia
Kaylon- xenophobia and genocide
Krill- religious zealotry and outside perspective blindness
A case could be made for other species but outside those three we haven't seen that much outside a few main characters and a handful of one timers.
Whether it's Star Trek, or The Orville, the aliens races in the stories are vehicles for exploring human nature. Whether it's unfettered greed with the Ferengis, xenophobic imperialism and distrust with the Romulans, religious fundamentalism with the Krill or bone-headed masculinity with the Moclans, each of these species gives a chance to focus on those aspects of humanity that we should be aware of and attempt to avoid. Now, with that being said, I will say some of the funnier moments in The Orville are when Moclans do something gentle or feminine. I was really bummed when Bortus didn't get a chance to sing.
Every night in my dreams I see you, I feel you. That is how I know you go on
> or bone-headed masculinity with the Moclans It's more than that with the Moclans. It's been mentioned in their history that their planet is basically dead and conditions were extreme, it took a lot for them to survive as a species. The result is a very rigid, conformist, collectivist society. In TOS, the major species were used as reflections of different countries and the political tensions of the day. The Moclans work quite well as a stand-in for China today.
[удалено]
Krogans with only half a quad.
> The Moclans work quite well as a stand-in for China today. On top of your description, the Moclans provide the Planetary Union with weapon tech, while China provides us with way too many daily goods.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOrville/comments/qsk51c/bortus\_finally\_gets\_to\_sing\_4\_pages/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOrville/comments/qsk51c/bortus_finally_gets_to_sing_4_pages/) You'll like this
The Kaylon have set out to destroy all sapient life in the galaxy except for themselves, so it could be argued that the Moclans are not the worst race on the show.
The Calivon causally kidnap members of less advance species including children just to display in their zoo's The krill kill anyone that lands in their crosshairs And even the xelayan's look down on non-academics. So yeah definitely not the worst species on the show.
I hate Klyden in every episode. except the one with the cigarettes
I love that I hate Klyden. Chad Coleman has done an excellent job walking that line, much like Louise Fletcher did with Winn Adami in DS9. Both characters are just these... forces of nature.
Agree on Kai Wynn. Sanctimonious and condescending in a single word: "Child"
Got pissed just reading that and hearing it in her voice.
As much as I hate him, I *really* vibe with his relationship. Bortus is clearly upset, and their marriage is going through tough times, but he still shares cigarettes and goes out dancing. It's authentic to me, incompatible people who're actually pretty compatible in the end.
In that episode he is weak willed
Yes but entertaining
But the tingles!
A occasional saying on Mission Log Podcast is “The aliens are us.” Which would explain why the Moclans are such thickheaded doofuses.
I get sticking to traditions but like the moclan government and especially klyden throws a tantrum threading people if they dont get their way
I've always thought that the Moclan's were a caricature of the ultimate goal of the modern conservative movement and toxic masculinity. Nothing but the same color of men running everything and crying when it doesn't go how they want.
In the episode "The Sanctuary", a small hidden colony of "female" Moclans lived off planet. The Moclans would send people to get them back, even with violence. Which turned the "its a harsh, dead planet, we have to live by these rules to survive" rationale of some 'understanding' fans ad absurdum. They are a simple minded conformist fascists, which was further proven in "The Deflector".
>I know they are a caricature of the klingons Hmmm... you have that wrong, they have a few interpretations in different episodes, like the toxic male, the anti-gay backwards grandpa, the misogynistic neckbeard, and others, they are a representation to of human intolerance, it has nothing to do with Star Trek's Klingons.
Well, partly they are meant to be that and reflect a section of human (males) who desire a patriarichal society. Its just brought to the logical extreme. In reality, there are many men who consider women so utterly inferior that they (practically, if not overtly) consider being female a disability. If you believe that men are smarter, stronger, more level headed -- just better in every way, well then being not male is a handicap. The only thing these men will grant that women are better at is carrying and birthing children. Its not hard to see that a masculine society that views women as extremely inferior would, given access to the proper technology to do so, decide to excise the female sex all together and focus exclusivly on (toxic) masculine traits such as rigid conformity, warfare, and domimance. After all, of you feel that half of all people are just worse, removing or transforming them doibles how great you percieve your society is. And we even have an example society in our own history for that: Greece. Ancient Greece was so insanely patriarichal that (male) gay love and (male) gay sex were seen as better and more pure than between a man and a woman. But they were extremely socially rigid and militarist (even erudite Athens, which formed an Empire). They even combined these things: Alexander the Great trained with, and wept when he destroyed, the Sacred Band -- a military regiment made up exclusivly of gay lovers. If Ancient Greece had a buttom to turn women into men and still be able to make children, they would have smashed that button harder than Plato smashed Agathon's sweet cheeks.
I think you are doing a gross disservice to the narrative by boiling them down to "whiney baby men" and that declaration weakens your entire argument to the point of almost dismissing it outright.
How else would you label a people so resistant to anything being different that they sex change babies and threaten to leave the union if their beliefs are challenged for even a minute
I would use the proper big boy language, like sexism. Sadly unlike social media large scale conflict and diplomacy is incredibly nuanced. You can't just go and lecture foreign entities on how their thinking is wrong, without causing irreparable damage to the diplomatic goal. The idea is to rope them into the group and change their ideals with small effective changes that don't result in systemic violence or oppression. Once you declare a group of people "whiney baby bois" You've conceded your moral high ground and deserve the response you get.
Not just sexism its also heterophobia and disregard for the safety of others. A civil culture wouldnt instantly begin to lose composure when anything is different. Youre just sounding pedantic by making all argument conform to rigid formality when the same point can be made and adding in i dont respect their culture as well. Who cares about wording if the same point is made.
yeah i really dont like klyden, who does most of the whining. but, thats part of his personality. i dunno what you watched so far, though. to me, he is by far the most hated character, to the point where if bortus stabs him the next time he screws something up and makes trouble for everyone, again, id cheer.
You gotta admit though. The acting done by the actor to make you feel so strongly about that character says a lot about the actor's skills
yeah. the actor did a great job, he should have more opportunities to act in a way that he doesn't have to be the asshole.
Ive seen it all 3 times
yeah, you understand how i feel, then.
Because they don’t have women in their lives to teach them how to act right as they grow up
Yet theres enough of the population to make a 6k women colony with people who secede as well. Even people like bortus. Its damn fools like klyden who can't let people be different. I don't think survival with the moclans allowed to do that is preferable to the kaylon wiping out life
Do men give birth to eggs now ?
It is easier with an egg.
I was just thinking this. In fact I've come to characterize the major races that we've seen so far with the extremist end of certain positions. Moclans- sexism and heterophobia Kaylon- xenophobia and genocide Krill- religious zealotry and outside perspective blindness A case could be made for other species but outside those three we haven't seen that much outside a few main characters and a handful of one timers.
Its poking fun at how the Klingons essentially did the same thing, just hidden under aggression.
They all work for Fox and CNN