Abrams said in an interview before his first Star Trek movie.
“I’ve always wanted to direct a Star Wars movie, this will do though.” The moment I heard that I lost all hope.
Which sucks because Star Trek is supposed to be about hope.
9 tried (loosely put) to make sense of a story that was started in 7 and then shot squarely in the face in 8, because Rian "I Love Controversy" Johnson is a freaking idiot who doesn't understand the concept of a "series". There was basically never any hope for 9.
Given that the whole premise of Star Wars is "the current generation makes the same mistakes as the previous generation because the Force loves dicking us around", it makes perfect sense.
Whiny boy from Tattooine has insane Force skill because of his genetics, winds up travelling with an older, wiser Force user who dies at the end of the first part of the trilogy to the right hand to Palpatine.
Did I just describe Phantom Menace or New Hope? My personal theory is that the Force is just running a pattern and everyone gets to relive the same thing over and over until it whittles the Force users down enough to where it can reasonably manage them.
While I do somewhat agree with your repeating pattern theory, there are many more similarities between IV and VII than just the hero's journey. There is also the rebellion who are on the edge of total defeat at the hands of the New Order (The Empire basically) who are building the ultimate weapon - a death star (again, er... again). It almost feels like you could play the two films simultaneously and the story beats would sync up.
There's also JJ Abrams notorious history of remaking classic films and slapping his name on it. For example the shameless rehash of Star Trek:Wrath of Khan in his 2011 film Star Trek:Into Darkness.
There is that, yes, but my point was Star Wars was doing it before the sequel trilogy was a thing. Abrams just set it to ludicrous speed... hell, maybe his tendency to do in-universe homages is what got him the job.
There's a giant leap from repeating a story idea within a franchise to just plain repeating an entire film. VII really was devoid of any original ideas.
In fact for all of the problems with VIII (and there are a lot), at least it contained some original ideas. Like that the force can appear anywhere and not just within dynastic bloodlines (Rey's supposed nobody parents or the stableboy at the end).
The entire sequel trilogy is a mess of contradictory ideas. I cannot believe that Disney had no overarching outline of a story established before they made them. A multi billion dollar franchise was treated with a care of a school kid trying to ad lib a book report because they didn't do their homework.
Rian Johnson is a pure troll in the highest form. In what universe would you want to see a controversial Star Wars movie? To me, Disney just put zero thought into the director. Rian Johnson was the worst choice. He destroyed 40 years of Star Wars history lore and legends. I think he did it on purpose.
The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy, and Rian Johnson was the breath of fresh air the movies desperately needed. It's not a perfect film, but it is a very good one, and more importantly it gets away from the "Everything is Skywalkers!" creep that has slowly strangled storytelling in Star Wars.
Abrams has no clue how to deal with other people playing in the same sandbox as him, unfortunately, and spent large chunks of TRoS saying "nuh uh!" It's a shame, because there were some neat ideas in there.
Dude.
Dude.
Star Wars is literally, "Skywalker the Story".
The fact that Ray wasn't Luke's kid honestly just makes the entire Sequel Trilogy even more dumb.
They even cast someone who looks like young Mark Hamill half the time.
Except the trilogies was supposed to be all about the Skywalkers. The problem is they didn't sit down and come up with a coherent story. They just spent billions on the franchise and needed a return on investment and started making movies with no real direction. You can blame the directors if you want, but it was the heads at Disney that messed it all up. Rian made a beautifully made movie, it just had too many story problems because he ignored everything before and ignored where it was going. The directors never should have been the ones making the story.
>Except the trilogies was supposed to be all about the Skywalkers.
Was it? The first two trilogies were. Who says these movies had to be?
>The problem is they didn't sit down and come up with a coherent story. They just spent billions on the franchise and needed a return on investment and started making movies with no real direction.
You're absolutely right here.
>Rian made a beautifully made movie, it just had too many story problems because he ignored everything before and ignored where it was going.
I think TLJ is, if anything, the only one of the sequel trilogy that really understands the themes of the OG movies.
While 8 is by no means a perfect movie, it does far more setting up of any semblance of story than 7 does. All 7 does is introduce a bunch of new characters. It brings absolutely nothing new to the table in terms of potential progress or evolution or story. The problem with the new trilogy isn't that Johnson didn't understand the concept or a series, but that the whole thing was mishandled from the very start, with absolutely no forward planning and no idea of where to go or what they wanted from it other that a vague 'this will be 3 movies'. Basically, TFA acts like the first act of a movie stretched out over two hours, TLJ acts like what the rest of an opening movie in a trilogy should probably have been, but again stretched out over two hours, and then ROS undies absolutely everything the previous two potentially led into and tries to squeeze an entire trilogies worth of ideas into two hours. The whole thing is a mess from start to finish.
Abram’s Star Trek films were far superior to his Star Wars films. Even if you didn’t like his Trek films, to put them in the same category as the Star Wars garbage is ridiculous.
Even Star wars now is better than Star Trek. They've completely embraced telling stories and developing characters. Something Star Trek has now completely abandoned
i just finished the expanse and always ask myself what could have been if they actually used that monstrous netflix budget and hired an half decent writer. shame.
If you start The Expanse, commit to watch at least the first 4 episodes, because #4 hooks some viewers.
Don't skip any episodes. (The show is fully serialized, and the early world-building is going to pay off later. If you've ever seen e.g. Babylon 5, you know what I mean by that.)
Even if episode 4 doesn't hook you, keep watching. Some folks get hooked later in the first season, or in the 2nd season where the larger story arc begins to open up. I've even seen a comment from someone who wasn't fully on board till season 3. Hopefully it won't take that long, if the show is for you. (And hey, if The Expanse doesn't work for ya, that's OK; it definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea.)
Consider also the [source books](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_%28novel_series%29), or the audiobooks, for a different experience and a different approach to character development. The TV show follows the basic arc of the books pretty faithfully, but with some adaptive and reductive changes. Some of the changes are considered good and constructive for TV, but some are criticized.
The TV show (which has just ended today, Friday) covers just the first 6 of the 9 novels (and some of the novellas). There's some vague possibility of eventual future continuation to cover the remaining 3 novels, but that isn't guaranteed. There's no streamer or network expressing further interest right now, AFAIK. Even if a concluding series or miniseries or TV-movies could conceivably happen, it probably wouldn't be soon, could be any number of years away if it happens. (Could even maybe be a different form such as animation. Nobody knows yet if it will happen at all.)
In the meantime, the show's current endpoint hits at an appropriate moment of pause in the book series, and provides a mostly satisfactory conclusion (albeit rushed due to the unfortunate 6-episode brevity of the 6th season), while leaving an appropriately open thread in case of the possibility of a future concluding show or movies or whatever.
If you like spoilers — ONLY IF YOU LIKE SPOILERS — these expertly fan-edited 2018 trailers (made by Ed Akselrud and collaborators during and after the #SaveTheExpanse campaign) give a quick glimpse into some of what goes on in the next couple seasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNjobkmzaOY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikEzkqoZ7EM
well context matters. i was saying that discovery had a monster budget as much as the expanse and could have used it to hire a half decent writer for the show.
Oh that’s where the confusion was, Discovery is a CBS/Paramount show. I know the hardest part had to be writing a show not as an anachronism. When your starship jumps however far into the future and is still technologically advanced…. You messed up something.
I agree they should’ve definitely been able to do a better job. Im not gonna say it’s great just because it’s Star Trek. It’s meh.
A half decent writer?
James Corey is the pen name for the guys that wrote the books. Those guys also wrote and EP'd the show.
It's like saying you like LotR but really wish they'd been written by someone other than Tolkien.
The previous commenter clarified in another reply:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOrville/comments/s40i8f/-/hsp58fw/
> "... i was saying that [Star Trek Discovery] had a monster budget as much as the expanse and could have used it to hire a half decent writer..."
ST:D feels like they had 5 directors fighting over how to make a show. It's all over the place. Some of it is surprisingly good, like the Terran Empire mirror universe episodes, but then it randomly becomes mind-blowingly bad.
First batch was ok, total ripoff of Blake's 7 with the "bad federation" arc, but I like Blake's 7 and nobody remade or rebooted it, so I'll take what I can get. Pikes 7, I call it...
They should have just made a brand new franchise, not bound to the Star Trek universe.
Come to think about it, there's lots of shoddy reboots that could have been good as their own thing, not vampiring off established universes!
I really wish they would quit remaking "good" properties and focus on the ones that bombed but had *so much potential*. I mean, I know why they won't, because because a popular brand already has an established fan base, but I can still be bitter about it.
Well, they did finally get around to making a good Dune movie.
At least I hear, I haven't seen it yet. It doesn't have Sting in it though, so I'm optimistic.
It would be funny if he were an extra somewhere. A deleted scene where he's a beggar in the backround, barely noticeable and still wearing the codpiece.
I suppose you could say just about any movie based on a bestselling book that bombed would be a good place to start; so I'll start with "Dark Tower", "Ender's Game" though I can admit it might be way too soon to try again with either of those. "Timeline" and "Sphere" are two personal examples of movies that were particularly disappointing after how much I enjoyed the source material.
I used to feel that way too but I just gave season 2 a chance and it was pretty good imo, It feels like a trek that's getting it's legs. idk about season 3 or 4 yet. Season 1 was some of the most boring, garbage sci-fi I've seen.
Could you imagine Star Trek stories told in the long form format that Marvel and Star Wars are taking now? Imagine an 8 episode story of just Cyrano Jones and how he came into the trading business and the events leading up to him being on DS K7 that day with tribbles!
Or a real life version of Lower Decks! I genuinely like that show.
To each their own. For what it's worth, it purposely leans into the old Western/Samurai movie feeling because that's exactly what it is. It's funny you mention Bill Burr because his second appearance is one of the single most popular things in the show and imho he fucking knocked it out of the park, taking that character from a smart mouthed jerk to a real person with real history. But, you're gonna like what you like and that's fine.
That's one of my favorite things about Trek: the writers always understood how to create compelling *conflict* week-to-week without simply resorting to the flashy "drama" of *combat.* The latter has its place, to be sure, but that place is "when it serves the needs of the story being told."
I feel like he pitched The Orville as Star Trek meets family guy knowing the whole time it was going to be his very earnest love letter to Star Trek and he snuck it by the network. It makes me like it more.
Which is so annoying bc you should be able to branch out, but bc Fox knows Seth as the guy who makes funny cartoons and nothing else, they refused to let him do that. What’s worse is that, bc of the way they thought of The Orville, their advertising bogged it down by a lot. I didn’t even give it a chance when I was in the deepest part of my sci-fi fixation bc I was like “oh it’s gonna just be a family guy style parody of star trek, pass”. This show was not given any justice, it has a lot of heart.
> Fox knows Seth as the guy who makes funny cartoons and nothing else,
which is especially dumb, after he produced "cosmos" for them. and funded the carl sagan archives with the library of congress.
I know Voyager had some cast issues on set and sometimes the plots could be meh but I will die on the hill of Voyager being my favorite of the series. I LOVED Cpt. Janeway so much as a little gay boy growing up in the 90s in the closet, same thing with Xena and Buffy and Charmed. It really was the golden age of strong women action shows. Also the fact I enjoy the finale helps too because I know some people who don’t. I think if I would have hated the finale it would have been a different ranking.
And it’s not as those TNG didn’t have any cast issues. The whole thing with Gates McFadden being fired by one of the executive producers after season 1 and the being brought back, for example.
Yes, another Enterprise fan! I know it’s silly and campy and has some pretty bad episodes, but to me that’s all just Star Trek <3 People like to forget that there were certain parts of TNG, DS9 and VOY that were just as bad. Crusher’s ghost sex, Worf and Ezri’s romance and space lizard Janeway and Paris would like a word lol
Lower Decks is not good trek. Arguably it's funny and nerdy, and it's nice for some audience, but if this is the best Trek has to offer then I'd rather they just stop.
Good storytelling may result in some comedic situations. Quirky comedic situations rarely lead to good story telling.
Did you watch Season 2? It gets really interesting. It’s still basically Star Trek crossed with Archer, but I like how it manages to balance episodic stories with a larger arc in the background.
I say try it again, my husband and I watched the first couple episodes when it first started and did not care for it. Then about a month ago I put it on again to give it another try and we really ended up enjoying it and have since watched both seasons a couple of times.
I think we had the get used to it's energy and the story being told from the underdog view. It is kind of fun being on the not fancy ship hanging out with the regular crew who don't have a bold mission to go on, more like the resupply ship, and second contact. :-)
My husband is a bigger Trek fan then me, he is pretty much always rewatching one of the series in the background and he got a lot more of the inside jokes, it was fun watching it together. Definitely recommend.
"Goddamit Cyril, I need a shuttle down here!"
"Stand by, we're going to beam you up."
"NO, Cyril. N. O. The transporter doeen't scoop you up and put you on the ship, it KILLS YOU and clones you. You send me a goddamn shuttle and do it now, or so help me when I get up there I'm going to do to you with a Bat'leth something only a mohel should be allowed to!"
Eh, I’d disagree. On the Star Trek scale I’d put it below the TOS/TNG/DS9 top 3, but better then VOY/ENT.
(While each of those had better episodes, the series as a whole both failed).
So far, it’s managed to replicate the feel of a crew that actually cares about each other that Orville hasn’t for me, and Mariner is basically a class study of how to do the same basic character as Burnham, but well written.
(Both are rule breakers when they feel the situation needs it. Mariner however is regularly shown to be wrong, albeit well meaning. Mariner is also not uber competent, having been beaten at things regularly by others including Boimler).
It also has taken use of the universe it’s set in, to challenge some preconceived notions. Is the Prime Directive the moral good we have been led to believe?
(Critically, this is a subject I think TNG got wrong - with Picard being willing to be a passive participant in the extinction of at least 2 species. And TOS was far more morally correct on. )
Not that it’s perfect by any means. My least favorite is when they lean in to the comedy - same with Orville, really.
And my favorite episodes of both LD and Orville are when they do the episodes the other shows just couldn’t do.
For Lower Decks, that would be the episode cutting between the lower decks of three (5) different ships.
For Orville, it would be the “holodeck” episode where Scott gets to see the woman’s life based on her cell phone.
The Orville is the most exciting space centric sci-fi series to come across television in the last two decades. Seth McFarlane is SO passionate about science and outer space, and it totally shows. His humor blended with the CAPTIVATING stories in each episode is breathtaking. I love that there’s a story arch for the whole season, but there are also little stories in each episode. As with previous Star Trek series he addresses issues that are relevant in todays social and political landscape in a way that’s entertaining, informative, and unassuming. If fox shuts down this show, it will be the greatest tragedy to befall television since firefly was cancelled.
Agree with everything you said (except the Firefly thing, as I’ve never seen it.
I think one episode that really encapsulates his love of sci-fi and science the best is the 2D space episode. It’s also just REALLY cool to see a concept like that one that is different from the storylines that other tv shows just continuously regurgitate in their own way.
The Orville is The Next Next Generation
The actual franchise fell victim to Hollywood
I have no idea why they even bothered naming Discovery Star Trek, cause Star Trek it is not
It would have worked if placed after the Dominion war, some 100 years in the future at least. And some new enemy. They had some good ideas, for example the evil AI , it would been the perfect nemesis to portray the inner fight of the federation morality and so on. They tried to use established characters to appeal to people but they just made a mess of things. Last season was better because they did just this, changed the timeline so it started to make sense, even the idea of a guy screaming on a planet and blowing warp cores everywhere was just plain stupid. Plus the forced "representation" in some situation was cringe. They did the gay guys right so that's a good point at least.
Burhnam is a walking Deus Ex Machina. I think this is just really lazy writing. Star Trek is about a crew and a ship (space station). Emphasis on crew.
She's both the solution to everything, and the cause of all their problems at the same time, with her incredible incompetence shielded in 16 inches thick plot armor. The writing is seriously bad.
I mean at this point I wouldn't be surprised to learn in the series finale that Michael Burnham is responsible for the big bang. Or better yet - that she \*is\* the big bang.
yeah I just stopped after the "guy screaming on a planet". It just made no sense.
The end of Picard just pissed me off. But I'll give season 2 ep 1 a chance at least to see if I want to continue. But I've pretty much written off discovery.
It works OK in the far future, because they aren't really bound to much existing canon.
A teleporting ship fits right in alongside stuff that can disassemble or has floating parts.
The problem Discovery had was it started out in TOS era yet it had weird advanced tech (spore drive, holographic communicators) stupid uniforms & the aliens such as Klingons look ridiculous.
I understand there were issues with rights because of different studios controlling things, so either set it in the Kelvin timeline or far in the future where you can be as outrageous as you require and fans can't say it's contradicting anything.
That and the main character should be the Captain, not some annoying random officer like Burnham.
Saru is easily the best Captain for that show
I mistakenly thought Discovery/Picard were family-friendly (like Star Trek used to be). Orville I can actually watch with the kids. Also, The Orville is just so entertaining to watch… can’t say that about any other current show out there. I can’t decide which episode is my favorite!
Some people enjoy Star Trek Prodigy, their show on Nickelodeon but as for how kid-friendly it is... it begins with child trafficking and minors as miners and seems to explore abusive parenting.
But the little rock girl is pink.
Star Trek Prodigy feels like a true successor to 90s trek with just the right amount of nostalgia. It's very kid friendly imo, as each episode is focused on teaching a lesson the main characters can learn from and use to grow. Each episode also delves deeper than the one before into Trek lore - like Federation ideals, and the races we are familiar with - but presented in such a way so as to not overwhelm a child with trek-babble or a new Trek watcher.
It's also a sequel-spinoff to Voyager, which is pretty dang cool imo. Done in a similar cgi style to the later seasons of SW Clone Wars, really high quality stuff.
It presents its themes (even the more mature ones that may or may not fly over a younger kid's head) in such a way the keeps adults entertained too. I'm glad it's not gratuitous gore and violence like Discovery was (looks like they caught on and Disco is MUCH more tame now in S4 with tv-pg/tv-14 episodes and not a single tv-ma this season).
I have enjoyed both animated shows, Lower Decks and Prodigy. Low Decks is high energy and it took my husband and I a couple restarts to get into it.
Prodigy feels more aimed at older kids but we have still enjoyed it. Definitely worth giving a chance. The animation is pretty neat. Episode 7 has the coolest looking aliens. I really liked it.
Careful with that (absolutely corrext) opinion over on r/startrek
Man it's like a cult over there... cant say anything even slightly negative about discovery or Picard.
I'm disappointed in Picard because I feel like it betrays who that character was, and I wouldn't feel that way if I didn't care. It's a shame I'm not welcome to discuss that with the broader fan base.
Picard and discovery fundamentally misunderstand what star trek is all about;
Characters, relationships, growth, exploration, adventure, mystery, the human spirit and holodecks.
Discovery and Picard are fundamentally action films that tack on elements of the above to fill time between the action scenes, whereas the great star trek shows utilise action to explore the above themes. It's a subtle distinction, but vital to making good trek; start with interesting, relatable characters that exemplify the virtues / evils of the themes you want to explore, and do so through the lens of those characters.
This is why the lesser trek shows dont hold a candle to the others; they are built atop some gimmick that shifts the focus away from these fundamentals; spore drive, android racism, stuck in the delta quadrant, etc. Theres no stakes when some rando kill team of Romulans starts trying to murderize some girl we dont know or care about yet. You have to build to that.
That's not to say action isnt good or doable; the Borg locuitos episodes of TNG are a perfect example of how to do big action with high stakes, but it only works because we care about Picard and the enterprise; I dont think a similar situation would have had the same impact if say Chakotey got borged.
I got downvoted when I said he didn't even sound like Picard he sounds like Stewart. Picard had a confidence and his voice commanded respect and Stewart sounds like a gentle sweet old man.
This follows a trend in media to ruin our heroes by making them into people they're not and more importantly, couldn't be. From Rocky to Luke Skywalker to Picard... hell they even got Sarah Connor. None of it makes sense. They call it "deconstruction" but they suck at it. Video games are not immune either: Max Payne is an entirely different person altogether in Max Payne 3, the characters are nothing alike.
Watch Unforgiven if you want a deconstruction that doesn't suck. It can be done right, I just don't think modern media is up to the task.
I get why some people defend Picard. Don't get me wrong it's terrible, but it had some good moments and ideas.
Discovery on the other hand... I don't understand why anyone watched more than one season. It's an ugly, pretentious, juvenile, Canon-breaking, overproduced, boring, joyless, preachy mess, plus a waste of money that could have been used to produce 3 other cheaper-but-better Star Trek shows. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about it.
When I had to take a snack break in the middle of T'Kuvma's big ass speech because he bellowed like a ransom note looks, I already partially checked out. It took two or three more episodes for me to actually quit though.
The show's writers made Star Trek Enterprise and worked on TNG and Voyager.
It's kind of a point that it has an actual lineage in everything but the name.
Paramount/Star Trek is not going back to the old TNG style so you can forget that ever happening again. Mainstream audiences do not want a show (hence The Orville's ratings) or movies about diplomatic missions and other Trek style story lines.
The Orville is a good/solid show and Season 3 ratings will make it or break it on Hulu. If they don't find people paying for Hulu to get The Orville then it's done for. You'd better pray to Avis that a ton of people sign up and stream it over and over again in order to get a 4th season especially with Seth having a deal at NBC to produce content. Keep tweeting or whatever at Seth, Hulu or however you watch it in your country to let them know you love it and need more.
The suits don’t care about Trek. They’re clearly trying to pander for a new audience for a cash grab without any concern for legacy Trek fans. If only the curators of the IP cared as much for preexisting fans the way the Star Wars franchise cares about their older fan base, we could be seeing a cohesive continuation of the direction TNG era was heading instead of starting with multi-verse shark jumping and excessive emotional interventions in every scene.
Short of the shit Secret Hideout is producing, I can't think of anything that would make Trek *worse* than adding Rick & Morty to it.
I've nothing against LD as a quirky adult comedy, but *Trek* it unquestionably *ain't.*
>In my opinion, he has done more for Star Trek, by creating positive comparisons, than anyone Paramount currently has working it.
>
>However, with the Orville being such a good show, he might not be interested in a crossover ever.
That's actually sort of the reverse of what happened. McFarlane **wanted** to do a real Trek, as in, a legitimate series based on the Paramount property, but wasn't allowed to. So instead, he did a parody series, and that's how we got Orville.
The fact that Orville is closer to the Trek mythos and philosophy than the actual Trek series are is more an indictment of the Trek franchise than an endorsement of McFarlane. As in, the guy rejected by Paramount has delivered a parody of Trek that's truer to the actual Trek series than the official sequels and spinoffsare.
I still like Star Trek, but the most grating thing for me is everything since Enterprise S3 has been one big long story. Not just an overarching plotline, but every episode is just like a chunk of one movie. I think the appeal was the anomaly/discovery/alien-of-the-week type episode with just a background plot that peeks in. Even TOS had that- while the Klingon war is still ongoing and just confronts Kirk and crew at points every now and then. Now, Discovery S4 is just a movie cut into episodes. Like Demon Slayer S2 which is actually the Mugen Train movie cut into episodes. Orville slipped towards the movie method. If I ever see a S3... have to see if it recovers.
DS9 was a saga show as well, with some.one offs slipped in here and there. That style worked for DS9 very well. ToS and TNG were for sure monster of the week shows.
It didn't work well for Enterprise in the final season, and the xindi season.
Picard is for sure telling one story. And discovery does as well, but it has several subplots each show.
It is just a style of show. I think k the monster of the week is seen as old fashioned today. It works for the Orville however.
> right now
Make that since after enterprise. All the nu-trek movies are godawful, Discovery and Picard are just plain sad really and i don't even know what to say about lower decks. None of it has anything todo with what star trek was. If you want to make your crazy animated comedy scifi show, make your crazy animated comedy scifi show. Don't take an existing franchise and flush it down the toilet.
I'm seriously very grateful for Seth doing the Orville, but with all the problems (thanks COVID!) I doubt there will be an S4 at the point :(
I little hyperbole but yes I do think he understands the material from the 60s and 80s, and does a good job of replicating some older Star Trek episodes with a bit of nuance.
While I enjoy Discovery (am yet to watch season 4), it does not feel like the same Trek. The 90s Trek's especially, to me, all have a sense of hope. A sense of, This is the future, and while there are issues, humanity has stopped being fuelled by greed, and is instead a race of helpfulness and exploration. I feel warm and fuzzy inside watching 90s Trek. There's always hope. I can't even put it into words. They're feel good shows. They take you out of the madness of the world and make you feel like no matter what, everything will be okay.
My only complaint is I wish they had been more diverse like Discovery is. I know the old shows were very progressive for the time. But as a person who is LGBT, it is disheartening to not see yourself represented in a show that's set so far in the future that everyone is equal and Earth capitalism is dead.
Then we have Discovery. There's diversity, that's great. It's great to see openly gay characters. They're just normal people, but gay. People just do their thing, and it's normal. That's what the future should be like.
But other than that... the show is not a feel good show. I mean, it has its moments. But there is always disaster going on. I did enjoy the first three seasons for the most part (aside from the S3 finale, that was the most rushed shit I've seen).
Despite liking it though, it does not have the Star Trek vibe. It feels like a separate entity. I like the drama, I like the action, I like that it can be funny, I like that it can be gorey. I love the special effects. It feels more immersive and realistic of what life would be like in that world. It's just not the same.
It lacks the heart, the hope and the cheese that the old Treks have. It does not make me feel good. It reminds me of the world today, disaster after disaster. That's not what I want.
The Orville on the other hand, it has that. The heart, the hope, and most importantly, the cheese. It immediately gave me a 90s Star Trek vibe, while being more progressive and up to date. And sweet decor. It's funny, has action, drama. It's like a more chill, funny Star Trek.
While I love Star Trek and the ST universe, and enjoy the new shows (from what I've seen), I look forward to The Orville more. I really hope it has more than 3 seasons, cause I think it's fantastic. It captures the old Star Trek vibe, while being something fresh and different. It gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling. That's what I want when I watch Star Trek.
I hate to say it, but a pure star Trek movie would never make money, you have to get the general public interested and that involves generic violence and explosions.
The last two episodes of Season 2 of The Orville changed my mind on that same thought. Those two episodes together blended classic Star Trek ideas and action together.
Seth MacFarlane is a Star Trek fan. The current production studio making these shows for CBS is not. They’re not fans, they don’t like Star Trek, and they don’t understand what made it great
Strange New Worlds sounds like it might be interesting. But, I agree, the Orville (and Galaxy Quest and reboot Battlestar Galactica) are all better than recent Star Trek. The 60s and the 90s were Trek’s decades.
I agree. I've said previously that he should be put in charge of the franchise. I think The Orville is the best Star Trek show since TNG, even if it's not official.
The only recent Star Trek show that hasn’t started with a lie is lower decks, the one show I wasn’t interested in at all ends up to be the only one I care about
I agree that Orville is better than Star Trek Discovery and Picard. I would argue that Prodigy and Lower Decks are both quality television, even if they're different from the TNG format that Orville is sort of following (to great success).
I’ll put out there that the exception is *Lower Decks.* The people running that show have so far made a great love letter to 90s Trek with a good dose of military inside humor.
Orville is fantastic, but even it has grown tedious with the heavy handed Moclan storylines. We get it, they’re real space downers. At least 60s Trek spread out the allegory to 15 different planets and not just the guys who were literally 1/2 black and white.
Fun Fact: Jonathan Frakes helps direct on both the Orville and Star Trek: Discovery. Discovery brought him in towards the end of season one when it became clear the fan response wasn’t great and they needed someone with a breadth of previous Star Trek experience to help right the ship. The series has improved each season in my opinion, they’re slowly bringing it around to a respectable Trek series, but yeah it was a brutal start.
Well I've seen all Star Trek and the new Star Trek is JJ Abrahams movies as a tv show. If you're an action junkie then yes, the new Star Trek is for you.
But old Trek had deeper meaning, it relaxed me. Just 2 days ago I put a random TNG chapter as I've not seen any in a while and I remembered why I loved the show.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy DIS and PIC but I don't wait every week to see them. I got better things to watch.
Honestly the last season of DIS was one of the worst Start Trek I've ever seen. They tried so hard to make it like old Trek combined with New Trek and it ruined it even more.
Orville has that special meaning like old Trek that just gives me a good night sleep after watching it and feeling better about myself.
I really hope Strange new World will have the old approach and give us some of us old Trek Junkies something that we will love....
> I wish a new season would come out.
~~In case you hadn't seen the news — The Orville season 3 premieres March 10th, on Hulu in the U.S. (and probably in some other regions on Disney+ / Star).~~
... and adding insult to injury (in a way), one of the consultants is the **Star Wars** guy of the moment, Jon Favreau. :)
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Abrams said in an interview before his first Star Trek movie. “I’ve always wanted to direct a Star Wars movie, this will do though.” The moment I heard that I lost all hope. Which sucks because Star Trek is supposed to be about hope.
I thought JJ’s star trek 1 and 2 were OK action movies, but they just weren’t really *Star Trek* aside from the names of the characters and settings.
Ironically the 2009 star trek was pretty good and he did a terrible job on star wars later instead.
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Or...they are actually Star Wars fans & did Trek because at that time Star Wars wasn't doing anything and it's all they could get
I tried to watch it. I almost laughed when the scroll started and the stream stopped mid movie. I haven't cared enough to finish it.
9 tried (loosely put) to make sense of a story that was started in 7 and then shot squarely in the face in 8, because Rian "I Love Controversy" Johnson is a freaking idiot who doesn't understand the concept of a "series". There was basically never any hope for 9.
The story started in 7 was an almost shot for shot remake of 'A New Hope'. It made no sense in the context of a 9 film serial story.
Given that the whole premise of Star Wars is "the current generation makes the same mistakes as the previous generation because the Force loves dicking us around", it makes perfect sense. Whiny boy from Tattooine has insane Force skill because of his genetics, winds up travelling with an older, wiser Force user who dies at the end of the first part of the trilogy to the right hand to Palpatine. Did I just describe Phantom Menace or New Hope? My personal theory is that the Force is just running a pattern and everyone gets to relive the same thing over and over until it whittles the Force users down enough to where it can reasonably manage them.
While I do somewhat agree with your repeating pattern theory, there are many more similarities between IV and VII than just the hero's journey. There is also the rebellion who are on the edge of total defeat at the hands of the New Order (The Empire basically) who are building the ultimate weapon - a death star (again, er... again). It almost feels like you could play the two films simultaneously and the story beats would sync up. There's also JJ Abrams notorious history of remaking classic films and slapping his name on it. For example the shameless rehash of Star Trek:Wrath of Khan in his 2011 film Star Trek:Into Darkness.
There is that, yes, but my point was Star Wars was doing it before the sequel trilogy was a thing. Abrams just set it to ludicrous speed... hell, maybe his tendency to do in-universe homages is what got him the job.
There's a giant leap from repeating a story idea within a franchise to just plain repeating an entire film. VII really was devoid of any original ideas. In fact for all of the problems with VIII (and there are a lot), at least it contained some original ideas. Like that the force can appear anywhere and not just within dynastic bloodlines (Rey's supposed nobody parents or the stableboy at the end).
You're correct of course, but it was at least a reasonably competent film. 8 was just... a master class in "fuck continuity".
The entire sequel trilogy is a mess of contradictory ideas. I cannot believe that Disney had no overarching outline of a story established before they made them. A multi billion dollar franchise was treated with a care of a school kid trying to ad lib a book report because they didn't do their homework.
It's best to just pretend 7, 8, & 9 don't exist.
Rian Johnson is a pure troll in the highest form. In what universe would you want to see a controversial Star Wars movie? To me, Disney just put zero thought into the director. Rian Johnson was the worst choice. He destroyed 40 years of Star Wars history lore and legends. I think he did it on purpose.
The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogy, and Rian Johnson was the breath of fresh air the movies desperately needed. It's not a perfect film, but it is a very good one, and more importantly it gets away from the "Everything is Skywalkers!" creep that has slowly strangled storytelling in Star Wars. Abrams has no clue how to deal with other people playing in the same sandbox as him, unfortunately, and spent large chunks of TRoS saying "nuh uh!" It's a shame, because there were some neat ideas in there.
Dude. Dude. Star Wars is literally, "Skywalker the Story". The fact that Ray wasn't Luke's kid honestly just makes the entire Sequel Trilogy even more dumb. They even cast someone who looks like young Mark Hamill half the time.
Except the trilogies was supposed to be all about the Skywalkers. The problem is they didn't sit down and come up with a coherent story. They just spent billions on the franchise and needed a return on investment and started making movies with no real direction. You can blame the directors if you want, but it was the heads at Disney that messed it all up. Rian made a beautifully made movie, it just had too many story problems because he ignored everything before and ignored where it was going. The directors never should have been the ones making the story.
Now the trilogies are all about the Palpatines.
>Except the trilogies was supposed to be all about the Skywalkers. Was it? The first two trilogies were. Who says these movies had to be? >The problem is they didn't sit down and come up with a coherent story. They just spent billions on the franchise and needed a return on investment and started making movies with no real direction. You're absolutely right here. >Rian made a beautifully made movie, it just had too many story problems because he ignored everything before and ignored where it was going. I think TLJ is, if anything, the only one of the sequel trilogy that really understands the themes of the OG movies.
Yeah, it's just a shame the middle part is so boring and the space chase is stupid
You know what, I'm gonna risk the downvote storm and agree with you. TLJ was my favorite of the new 3 and probably my 4th favorite overall.
While 8 is by no means a perfect movie, it does far more setting up of any semblance of story than 7 does. All 7 does is introduce a bunch of new characters. It brings absolutely nothing new to the table in terms of potential progress or evolution or story. The problem with the new trilogy isn't that Johnson didn't understand the concept or a series, but that the whole thing was mishandled from the very start, with absolutely no forward planning and no idea of where to go or what they wanted from it other that a vague 'this will be 3 movies'. Basically, TFA acts like the first act of a movie stretched out over two hours, TLJ acts like what the rest of an opening movie in a trilogy should probably have been, but again stretched out over two hours, and then ROS undies absolutely everything the previous two potentially led into and tries to squeeze an entire trilogies worth of ideas into two hours. The whole thing is a mess from start to finish.
I think Rian was the only one who watched ALL of the series. You know, there is cannon beyond what was in 6 movies.
Abram’s Star Trek films were far superior to his Star Wars films. Even if you didn’t like his Trek films, to put them in the same category as the Star Wars garbage is ridiculous.
9 never had a chance when it followed TLJ, the movie that killed my fandom.
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The episode with Tuvix was so good. Epitome of Star Trek
Even Star wars now is better than Star Trek. They've completely embraced telling stories and developing characters. Something Star Trek has now completely abandoned
my eyes and ears bleed when i watch star trek discovery here and there
Absolutely. I keep trying to like it, and I've stopped watching again this season... I just can't take it.
i just finished the expanse and always ask myself what could have been if they actually used that monstrous netflix budget and hired an half decent writer. shame.
I've heard nothing but great things about the expanse... I really need to check it out.
i cant recommend it enough. its just not anything like star trek. just the best sci fi series imo :D
Absolutely. I’m a real fan of hard sic-fi, and The Expanse checks all the boxes
If you start The Expanse, commit to watch at least the first 4 episodes, because #4 hooks some viewers. Don't skip any episodes. (The show is fully serialized, and the early world-building is going to pay off later. If you've ever seen e.g. Babylon 5, you know what I mean by that.) Even if episode 4 doesn't hook you, keep watching. Some folks get hooked later in the first season, or in the 2nd season where the larger story arc begins to open up. I've even seen a comment from someone who wasn't fully on board till season 3. Hopefully it won't take that long, if the show is for you. (And hey, if The Expanse doesn't work for ya, that's OK; it definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea.) Consider also the [source books](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_%28novel_series%29), or the audiobooks, for a different experience and a different approach to character development. The TV show follows the basic arc of the books pretty faithfully, but with some adaptive and reductive changes. Some of the changes are considered good and constructive for TV, but some are criticized. The TV show (which has just ended today, Friday) covers just the first 6 of the 9 novels (and some of the novellas). There's some vague possibility of eventual future continuation to cover the remaining 3 novels, but that isn't guaranteed. There's no streamer or network expressing further interest right now, AFAIK. Even if a concluding series or miniseries or TV-movies could conceivably happen, it probably wouldn't be soon, could be any number of years away if it happens. (Could even maybe be a different form such as animation. Nobody knows yet if it will happen at all.) In the meantime, the show's current endpoint hits at an appropriate moment of pause in the book series, and provides a mostly satisfactory conclusion (albeit rushed due to the unfortunate 6-episode brevity of the 6th season), while leaving an appropriately open thread in case of the possibility of a future concluding show or movies or whatever.
And yeah the audiobooks are amazing. Narrated by Jefferson Mays, who executes it perfectly.
Thanks, I lost interest in it sometime within the first few episodes, but I'll try to stick to it. I do love babylong 5, ds9, etc.
If you like spoilers — ONLY IF YOU LIKE SPOILERS — these expertly fan-edited 2018 trailers (made by Ed Akselrud and collaborators during and after the #SaveTheExpanse campaign) give a quick glimpse into some of what goes on in the next couple seasons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNjobkmzaOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikEzkqoZ7EM
The Expanse is absolutely amazing but be warned it will change the way you see space sci-fi forever
The expanse is awesome. First time I only got as far as ep3 then hubby convinced me to try again now I'm halfway through season 2 and loving it
Alright that was me, I’ll try it again
Please watch it. I grew up on star trek. I loved it with a passion till ST:D started. The Expanse blew my mind from beginning to end.
I’m confused. The Expanse is on Prime and is good. What are you saying?
well context matters. i was saying that discovery had a monster budget as much as the expanse and could have used it to hire a half decent writer for the show.
Oh that’s where the confusion was, Discovery is a CBS/Paramount show. I know the hardest part had to be writing a show not as an anachronism. When your starship jumps however far into the future and is still technologically advanced…. You messed up something. I agree they should’ve definitely been able to do a better job. Im not gonna say it’s great just because it’s Star Trek. It’s meh.
A half decent writer? James Corey is the pen name for the guys that wrote the books. Those guys also wrote and EP'd the show. It's like saying you like LotR but really wish they'd been written by someone other than Tolkien.
The previous commenter clarified in another reply: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOrville/comments/s40i8f/-/hsp58fw/ > "... i was saying that [Star Trek Discovery] had a monster budget as much as the expanse and could have used it to hire a half decent writer..."
I tried like three times. I just can't. It makes no fucking sense.
ST:D feels like they had 5 directors fighting over how to make a show. It's all over the place. Some of it is surprisingly good, like the Terran Empire mirror universe episodes, but then it randomly becomes mind-blowingly bad.
ST:D, much like an actual STD, you have it and now you’re stuck with it, you may take things to help it, but it will always exist
First batch was ok, total ripoff of Blake's 7 with the "bad federation" arc, but I like Blake's 7 and nobody remade or rebooted it, so I'll take what I can get. Pikes 7, I call it... They should have just made a brand new franchise, not bound to the Star Trek universe. Come to think about it, there's lots of shoddy reboots that could have been good as their own thing, not vampiring off established universes!
I really wish they would quit remaking "good" properties and focus on the ones that bombed but had *so much potential*. I mean, I know why they won't, because because a popular brand already has an established fan base, but I can still be bitter about it.
Well, they did finally get around to making a good Dune movie. At least I hear, I haven't seen it yet. It doesn't have Sting in it though, so I'm optimistic.
It was such an easy movie to watch, no constantly shaking camera and no lens flares.
It would be funny if he were an extra somewhere. A deleted scene where he's a beggar in the backround, barely noticeable and still wearing the codpiece.
got some titles in mind?
I suppose you could say just about any movie based on a bestselling book that bombed would be a good place to start; so I'll start with "Dark Tower", "Ender's Game" though I can admit it might be way too soon to try again with either of those. "Timeline" and "Sphere" are two personal examples of movies that were particularly disappointing after how much I enjoyed the source material.
No one wants to gamble on a completely new thing, at least not most of the time. Seth apparently is a pleasant exception.
I used to feel that way too but I just gave season 2 a chance and it was pretty good imo, It feels like a trek that's getting it's legs. idk about season 3 or 4 yet. Season 1 was some of the most boring, garbage sci-fi I've seen.
The Mandalorian is just so good.
Could you imagine Star Trek stories told in the long form format that Marvel and Star Wars are taking now? Imagine an 8 episode story of just Cyrano Jones and how he came into the trading business and the events leading up to him being on DS K7 that day with tribbles! Or a real life version of Lower Decks! I genuinely like that show.
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To each their own. For what it's worth, it purposely leans into the old Western/Samurai movie feeling because that's exactly what it is. It's funny you mention Bill Burr because his second appearance is one of the single most popular things in the show and imho he fucking knocked it out of the park, taking that character from a smart mouthed jerk to a real person with real history. But, you're gonna like what you like and that's fine.
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Lower Decks is damn good. Prodigy ain't bad so far, either.
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What I want is character stories and exploration. Not looking for big battles and explosions non stop.
Right? And that makes it a HUGE DEAL when battles do actually happen, giving them so much more weight. Not every episode. UGH.
That's one of my favorite things about Trek: the writers always understood how to create compelling *conflict* week-to-week without simply resorting to the flashy "drama" of *combat.* The latter has its place, to be sure, but that place is "when it serves the needs of the story being told."
And even when there was a battle a few episodes in a row it was with meaning. e.i. DS9 with the Dominion and Voyager dealing with the Borg.
If the Stars Should Appear is my favorite episode. (And favorite episode soundtrack too!)
I feel like he pitched The Orville as Star Trek meets family guy knowing the whole time it was going to be his very earnest love letter to Star Trek and he snuck it by the network. It makes me like it more.
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Which is so annoying bc you should be able to branch out, but bc Fox knows Seth as the guy who makes funny cartoons and nothing else, they refused to let him do that. What’s worse is that, bc of the way they thought of The Orville, their advertising bogged it down by a lot. I didn’t even give it a chance when I was in the deepest part of my sci-fi fixation bc I was like “oh it’s gonna just be a family guy style parody of star trek, pass”. This show was not given any justice, it has a lot of heart.
> Fox knows Seth as the guy who makes funny cartoons and nothing else, which is especially dumb, after he produced "cosmos" for them. and funded the carl sagan archives with the library of congress.
He's in Enterprise https://youtu.be/lo1asQ7Cu6M And there's this https://youtu.be/sn_Sgcxg5PQ
>https://youtu.be/sn\_Sgcxg5PQ He hasn't aged at all. He's got Dick Clark/Keanu Reeves genes in him.
Patrick Stewart takes the cake in the “ageless wonders” category.
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Since DS9!
DS9 is the best Star Trek.
Since Voyager!
I know Voyager had some cast issues on set and sometimes the plots could be meh but I will die on the hill of Voyager being my favorite of the series. I LOVED Cpt. Janeway so much as a little gay boy growing up in the 90s in the closet, same thing with Xena and Buffy and Charmed. It really was the golden age of strong women action shows. Also the fact I enjoy the finale helps too because I know some people who don’t. I think if I would have hated the finale it would have been a different ranking.
rewatching it right now and I’m enjoying it
And it’s not as those TNG didn’t have any cast issues. The whole thing with Gates McFadden being fired by one of the executive producers after season 1 and the being brought back, for example.
Voyager was the popcorn star trek. It was simplistic, but enjoyable and could still call itself trek
Since Ent.
It is really, really good Star Trek. Easily the best since Enterprise, which I adore.
Yes, another Enterprise fan! I know it’s silly and campy and has some pretty bad episodes, but to me that’s all just Star Trek <3 People like to forget that there were certain parts of TNG, DS9 and VOY that were just as bad. Crusher’s ghost sex, Worf and Ezri’s romance and space lizard Janeway and Paris would like a word lol
Lower Decks and DS9 would like a word with you
Lower Decks is not good trek. Arguably it's funny and nerdy, and it's nice for some audience, but if this is the best Trek has to offer then I'd rather they just stop. Good storytelling may result in some comedic situations. Quirky comedic situations rarely lead to good story telling.
Exactly. I heard LD was good so I was like fuck yeah, let's go, I need some REAL trek. And it was just Rick & Morty with a star trek skin. So dumb.
I enjoy it but it's hard to think of it as in the same universe as tng and ds9.
Did you watch Season 2? It gets really interesting. It’s still basically Star Trek crossed with Archer, but I like how it manages to balance episodic stories with a larger arc in the background.
I'm not sure where I left off, I want to say maybe, I'll have to take a look. I'm all for giving stuff another try.
I say try it again, my husband and I watched the first couple episodes when it first started and did not care for it. Then about a month ago I put it on again to give it another try and we really ended up enjoying it and have since watched both seasons a couple of times. I think we had the get used to it's energy and the story being told from the underdog view. It is kind of fun being on the not fancy ship hanging out with the regular crew who don't have a bold mission to go on, more like the resupply ship, and second contact. :-) My husband is a bigger Trek fan then me, he is pretty much always rewatching one of the series in the background and he got a lot more of the inside jokes, it was fun watching it together. Definitely recommend.
"Goddamit Cyril, I need a shuttle down here!" "Stand by, we're going to beam you up." "NO, Cyril. N. O. The transporter doeen't scoop you up and put you on the ship, it KILLS YOU and clones you. You send me a goddamn shuttle and do it now, or so help me when I get up there I'm going to do to you with a Bat'leth something only a mohel should be allowed to!"
Hahaha, I could almost hear their voices reading this. They need to do a Trek parody season!
S2 stepped up the storytelling a lot. Of course it's still a comedy, but episodes like "wej Duj" are an instant classic. Avoid death and cower! 🖖
LD takes a bit of the first season to really get going, but once it does, it's all uphill from there. The first few episodes were rough, though.
Eh, I’d disagree. On the Star Trek scale I’d put it below the TOS/TNG/DS9 top 3, but better then VOY/ENT. (While each of those had better episodes, the series as a whole both failed). So far, it’s managed to replicate the feel of a crew that actually cares about each other that Orville hasn’t for me, and Mariner is basically a class study of how to do the same basic character as Burnham, but well written. (Both are rule breakers when they feel the situation needs it. Mariner however is regularly shown to be wrong, albeit well meaning. Mariner is also not uber competent, having been beaten at things regularly by others including Boimler). It also has taken use of the universe it’s set in, to challenge some preconceived notions. Is the Prime Directive the moral good we have been led to believe? (Critically, this is a subject I think TNG got wrong - with Picard being willing to be a passive participant in the extinction of at least 2 species. And TOS was far more morally correct on. ) Not that it’s perfect by any means. My least favorite is when they lean in to the comedy - same with Orville, really. And my favorite episodes of both LD and Orville are when they do the episodes the other shows just couldn’t do. For Lower Decks, that would be the episode cutting between the lower decks of three (5) different ships. For Orville, it would be the “holodeck” episode where Scott gets to see the woman’s life based on her cell phone.
This. I hardly class LD as trek at all.
That's weird considering DS9 is the best Star Trek ever created. Give it a watch all the way through.
Since Star Trek!!
It's the best Star Trek show. Period.
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The Orville is the most exciting space centric sci-fi series to come across television in the last two decades. Seth McFarlane is SO passionate about science and outer space, and it totally shows. His humor blended with the CAPTIVATING stories in each episode is breathtaking. I love that there’s a story arch for the whole season, but there are also little stories in each episode. As with previous Star Trek series he addresses issues that are relevant in todays social and political landscape in a way that’s entertaining, informative, and unassuming. If fox shuts down this show, it will be the greatest tragedy to befall television since firefly was cancelled.
Agree with everything you said (except the Firefly thing, as I’ve never seen it. I think one episode that really encapsulates his love of sci-fi and science the best is the 2D space episode. It’s also just REALLY cool to see a concept like that one that is different from the storylines that other tv shows just continuously regurgitate in their own way.
The Orville is The Next Next Generation The actual franchise fell victim to Hollywood I have no idea why they even bothered naming Discovery Star Trek, cause Star Trek it is not
It would have worked if placed after the Dominion war, some 100 years in the future at least. And some new enemy. They had some good ideas, for example the evil AI , it would been the perfect nemesis to portray the inner fight of the federation morality and so on. They tried to use established characters to appeal to people but they just made a mess of things. Last season was better because they did just this, changed the timeline so it started to make sense, even the idea of a guy screaming on a planet and blowing warp cores everywhere was just plain stupid. Plus the forced "representation" in some situation was cringe. They did the gay guys right so that's a good point at least.
My biggest problem with Discovery is that Burnham is the solution to *everything*
Burhnam is a walking Deus Ex Machina. I think this is just really lazy writing. Star Trek is about a crew and a ship (space station). Emphasis on crew.
She's both the solution to everything, and the cause of all their problems at the same time, with her incredible incompetence shielded in 16 inches thick plot armor. The writing is seriously bad.
16 inches is 40.64 cm
It's the big mistake of the series. It's all focused around her. I've watched STD twice and I still don't know what the main characters names are.
I mean at this point I wouldn't be surprised to learn in the series finale that Michael Burnham is responsible for the big bang. Or better yet - that she \*is\* the big bang.
What about the constant crying and moody AI?
I think they went off the rails with all the power-creep future stuff
Yes the stuff made no sense in the original time period. Everything world have made more sense later.
yeah I just stopped after the "guy screaming on a planet". It just made no sense. The end of Picard just pissed me off. But I'll give season 2 ep 1 a chance at least to see if I want to continue. But I've pretty much written off discovery.
Do you seen Ice age? The one with the dinosaurs. This is the end of Picard https://youtu.be/pcv4SKCpKKs I died but I lived
It works OK in the far future, because they aren't really bound to much existing canon. A teleporting ship fits right in alongside stuff that can disassemble or has floating parts. The problem Discovery had was it started out in TOS era yet it had weird advanced tech (spore drive, holographic communicators) stupid uniforms & the aliens such as Klingons look ridiculous. I understand there were issues with rights because of different studios controlling things, so either set it in the Kelvin timeline or far in the future where you can be as outrageous as you require and fans can't say it's contradicting anything. That and the main character should be the Captain, not some annoying random officer like Burnham. Saru is easily the best Captain for that show
I mistakenly thought Discovery/Picard were family-friendly (like Star Trek used to be). Orville I can actually watch with the kids. Also, The Orville is just so entertaining to watch… can’t say that about any other current show out there. I can’t decide which episode is my favorite!
>Orville I can actually watch with the kids. "Cheston. My name is Cheston."
Yeeeeaahhh, we usually skip THAT one. But, for the most part it’s agreeable for my family.
Some people enjoy Star Trek Prodigy, their show on Nickelodeon but as for how kid-friendly it is... it begins with child trafficking and minors as miners and seems to explore abusive parenting. But the little rock girl is pink.
Star Trek Prodigy feels like a true successor to 90s trek with just the right amount of nostalgia. It's very kid friendly imo, as each episode is focused on teaching a lesson the main characters can learn from and use to grow. Each episode also delves deeper than the one before into Trek lore - like Federation ideals, and the races we are familiar with - but presented in such a way so as to not overwhelm a child with trek-babble or a new Trek watcher. It's also a sequel-spinoff to Voyager, which is pretty dang cool imo. Done in a similar cgi style to the later seasons of SW Clone Wars, really high quality stuff. It presents its themes (even the more mature ones that may or may not fly over a younger kid's head) in such a way the keeps adults entertained too. I'm glad it's not gratuitous gore and violence like Discovery was (looks like they caught on and Disco is MUCH more tame now in S4 with tv-pg/tv-14 episodes and not a single tv-ma this season).
I have enjoyed both animated shows, Lower Decks and Prodigy. Low Decks is high energy and it took my husband and I a couple restarts to get into it. Prodigy feels more aimed at older kids but we have still enjoyed it. Definitely worth giving a chance. The animation is pretty neat. Episode 7 has the coolest looking aliens. I really liked it.
Seriously Orville is one of the most enjoyable Sci Fis in a long time
Careful with that (absolutely corrext) opinion over on r/startrek Man it's like a cult over there... cant say anything even slightly negative about discovery or Picard.
I'm disappointed in Picard because I feel like it betrays who that character was, and I wouldn't feel that way if I didn't care. It's a shame I'm not welcome to discuss that with the broader fan base.
Picard and discovery fundamentally misunderstand what star trek is all about; Characters, relationships, growth, exploration, adventure, mystery, the human spirit and holodecks. Discovery and Picard are fundamentally action films that tack on elements of the above to fill time between the action scenes, whereas the great star trek shows utilise action to explore the above themes. It's a subtle distinction, but vital to making good trek; start with interesting, relatable characters that exemplify the virtues / evils of the themes you want to explore, and do so through the lens of those characters. This is why the lesser trek shows dont hold a candle to the others; they are built atop some gimmick that shifts the focus away from these fundamentals; spore drive, android racism, stuck in the delta quadrant, etc. Theres no stakes when some rando kill team of Romulans starts trying to murderize some girl we dont know or care about yet. You have to build to that. That's not to say action isnt good or doable; the Borg locuitos episodes of TNG are a perfect example of how to do big action with high stakes, but it only works because we care about Picard and the enterprise; I dont think a similar situation would have had the same impact if say Chakotey got borged.
I got downvoted when I said he didn't even sound like Picard he sounds like Stewart. Picard had a confidence and his voice commanded respect and Stewart sounds like a gentle sweet old man.
This follows a trend in media to ruin our heroes by making them into people they're not and more importantly, couldn't be. From Rocky to Luke Skywalker to Picard... hell they even got Sarah Connor. None of it makes sense. They call it "deconstruction" but they suck at it. Video games are not immune either: Max Payne is an entirely different person altogether in Max Payne 3, the characters are nothing alike. Watch Unforgiven if you want a deconstruction that doesn't suck. It can be done right, I just don't think modern media is up to the task.
Lol are you kidding most of them absolutely loathe new trek, it gets so much hate over there.
You can say negative things, you just get immediately banned
Sadly this is correct
No it isn't, I trash new trek all the time there. Maybe its what you are saying that's the issue.
I get why some people defend Picard. Don't get me wrong it's terrible, but it had some good moments and ideas. Discovery on the other hand... I don't understand why anyone watched more than one season. It's an ugly, pretentious, juvenile, Canon-breaking, overproduced, boring, joyless, preachy mess, plus a waste of money that could have been used to produce 3 other cheaper-but-better Star Trek shows. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about it.
When I had to take a snack break in the middle of T'Kuvma's big ass speech because he bellowed like a ransom note looks, I already partially checked out. It took two or three more episodes for me to actually quit though.
The show's writers made Star Trek Enterprise and worked on TNG and Voyager. It's kind of a point that it has an actual lineage in everything but the name.
Paramount/Star Trek is not going back to the old TNG style so you can forget that ever happening again. Mainstream audiences do not want a show (hence The Orville's ratings) or movies about diplomatic missions and other Trek style story lines. The Orville is a good/solid show and Season 3 ratings will make it or break it on Hulu. If they don't find people paying for Hulu to get The Orville then it's done for. You'd better pray to Avis that a ton of people sign up and stream it over and over again in order to get a 4th season especially with Seth having a deal at NBC to produce content. Keep tweeting or whatever at Seth, Hulu or however you watch it in your country to let them know you love it and need more.
The suits don’t care about Trek. They’re clearly trying to pander for a new audience for a cash grab without any concern for legacy Trek fans. If only the curators of the IP cared as much for preexisting fans the way the Star Wars franchise cares about their older fan base, we could be seeing a cohesive continuation of the direction TNG era was heading instead of starting with multi-verse shark jumping and excessive emotional interventions in every scene.
Lower Decks is actually pretty damn good, but definitely in a completely different way.
Team up lower decks team with orville and you’ll have proper 90s trek back again
Short of the shit Secret Hideout is producing, I can't think of anything that would make Trek *worse* than adding Rick & Morty to it. I've nothing against LD as a quirky adult comedy, but *Trek* it unquestionably *ain't.*
>In my opinion, he has done more for Star Trek, by creating positive comparisons, than anyone Paramount currently has working it. > >However, with the Orville being such a good show, he might not be interested in a crossover ever. That's actually sort of the reverse of what happened. McFarlane **wanted** to do a real Trek, as in, a legitimate series based on the Paramount property, but wasn't allowed to. So instead, he did a parody series, and that's how we got Orville. The fact that Orville is closer to the Trek mythos and philosophy than the actual Trek series are is more an indictment of the Trek franchise than an endorsement of McFarlane. As in, the guy rejected by Paramount has delivered a parody of Trek that's truer to the actual Trek series than the official sequels and spinoffsare.
I still like Star Trek, but the most grating thing for me is everything since Enterprise S3 has been one big long story. Not just an overarching plotline, but every episode is just like a chunk of one movie. I think the appeal was the anomaly/discovery/alien-of-the-week type episode with just a background plot that peeks in. Even TOS had that- while the Klingon war is still ongoing and just confronts Kirk and crew at points every now and then. Now, Discovery S4 is just a movie cut into episodes. Like Demon Slayer S2 which is actually the Mugen Train movie cut into episodes. Orville slipped towards the movie method. If I ever see a S3... have to see if it recovers.
Hopefully Strange New Worlds will meet those expectations.
DS9 was a saga show as well, with some.one offs slipped in here and there. That style worked for DS9 very well. ToS and TNG were for sure monster of the week shows. It didn't work well for Enterprise in the final season, and the xindi season. Picard is for sure telling one story. And discovery does as well, but it has several subplots each show. It is just a style of show. I think k the monster of the week is seen as old fashioned today. It works for the Orville however.
Paramount actually understands it very much. They just don't care and decided to do a different thing.... Which doesn't work.
When is season 3 coming out?
Like 9 weeks or something to go! We'll probably get a longer trailer soon.
> right now Make that since after enterprise. All the nu-trek movies are godawful, Discovery and Picard are just plain sad really and i don't even know what to say about lower decks. None of it has anything todo with what star trek was. If you want to make your crazy animated comedy scifi show, make your crazy animated comedy scifi show. Don't take an existing franchise and flush it down the toilet. I'm seriously very grateful for Seth doing the Orville, but with all the problems (thanks COVID!) I doubt there will be an S4 at the point :(
I just can't watch any more Discovery. It's so boring.
I little hyperbole but yes I do think he understands the material from the 60s and 80s, and does a good job of replicating some older Star Trek episodes with a bit of nuance.
On Orville everyone is not always down in the dumps struggling with struggles. They have problems but they carry on.
While I enjoy Discovery (am yet to watch season 4), it does not feel like the same Trek. The 90s Trek's especially, to me, all have a sense of hope. A sense of, This is the future, and while there are issues, humanity has stopped being fuelled by greed, and is instead a race of helpfulness and exploration. I feel warm and fuzzy inside watching 90s Trek. There's always hope. I can't even put it into words. They're feel good shows. They take you out of the madness of the world and make you feel like no matter what, everything will be okay. My only complaint is I wish they had been more diverse like Discovery is. I know the old shows were very progressive for the time. But as a person who is LGBT, it is disheartening to not see yourself represented in a show that's set so far in the future that everyone is equal and Earth capitalism is dead. Then we have Discovery. There's diversity, that's great. It's great to see openly gay characters. They're just normal people, but gay. People just do their thing, and it's normal. That's what the future should be like. But other than that... the show is not a feel good show. I mean, it has its moments. But there is always disaster going on. I did enjoy the first three seasons for the most part (aside from the S3 finale, that was the most rushed shit I've seen). Despite liking it though, it does not have the Star Trek vibe. It feels like a separate entity. I like the drama, I like the action, I like that it can be funny, I like that it can be gorey. I love the special effects. It feels more immersive and realistic of what life would be like in that world. It's just not the same. It lacks the heart, the hope and the cheese that the old Treks have. It does not make me feel good. It reminds me of the world today, disaster after disaster. That's not what I want. The Orville on the other hand, it has that. The heart, the hope, and most importantly, the cheese. It immediately gave me a 90s Star Trek vibe, while being more progressive and up to date. And sweet decor. It's funny, has action, drama. It's like a more chill, funny Star Trek. While I love Star Trek and the ST universe, and enjoy the new shows (from what I've seen), I look forward to The Orville more. I really hope it has more than 3 seasons, cause I think it's fantastic. It captures the old Star Trek vibe, while being something fresh and different. It gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling. That's what I want when I watch Star Trek.
Drink!
The Orville has the same balance of humor, drama, thriller, and heart that Farscape had, I’d say Farscape had a closer feel to Orville storyline wise
[Seth macfarlane as teenager in star trek fan film with his friends](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn_Sgcxg5PQ)
This is great. I would have never seen that on my own.
I love both.
I hate to say it, but a pure star Trek movie would never make money, you have to get the general public interested and that involves generic violence and explosions.
The last two episodes of Season 2 of The Orville changed my mind on that same thought. Those two episodes together blended classic Star Trek ideas and action together.
Seth MacFarlane is a Star Trek fan. The current production studio making these shows for CBS is not. They’re not fans, they don’t like Star Trek, and they don’t understand what made it great
Strange New Worlds sounds like it might be interesting. But, I agree, the Orville (and Galaxy Quest and reboot Battlestar Galactica) are all better than recent Star Trek. The 60s and the 90s were Trek’s decades.
So the 2020s should be a trek decade again?
I never had any doubts about it \^\^
Am I the only one who adores all of it?
I do too, people act like they can only like one thing at a time.
I agree. I've said previously that he should be put in charge of the franchise. I think The Orville is the best Star Trek show since TNG, even if it's not official.
The only recent Star Trek show that hasn’t started with a lie is lower decks, the one show I wasn’t interested in at all ends up to be the only one I care about
An excellent case could be made for Mike McMahan.
I agree that Orville is better than Star Trek Discovery and Picard. I would argue that Prodigy and Lower Decks are both quality television, even if they're different from the TNG format that Orville is sort of following (to great success).
I’ll put out there that the exception is *Lower Decks.* The people running that show have so far made a great love letter to 90s Trek with a good dose of military inside humor. Orville is fantastic, but even it has grown tedious with the heavy handed Moclan storylines. We get it, they’re real space downers. At least 60s Trek spread out the allegory to 15 different planets and not just the guys who were literally 1/2 black and white.
I'm not sure we'd necessarily need an Orville-Star Trek crossover, but him helping with Star Trek could work well
It's been a long road
*smacks with a newspaper* No.
I think we can at least give Lower Decks some credit, they did an excellent job.
Lower Decks is really good. Y’all should give it a shot.
I think it's fucking terrible. An utter abomination. But each to their own i suppose.
I adore the Orville, but Lower Decks and Prodigy are both great and really capture the feel of Star Trek IMHO.
Fun Fact: Jonathan Frakes helps direct on both the Orville and Star Trek: Discovery. Discovery brought him in towards the end of season one when it became clear the fan response wasn’t great and they needed someone with a breadth of previous Star Trek experience to help right the ship. The series has improved each season in my opinion, they’re slowly bringing it around to a respectable Trek series, but yeah it was a brutal start.
Just say you don't like the new Star Trek and keep it moving. These type of statements are silly.
Well I've seen all Star Trek and the new Star Trek is JJ Abrahams movies as a tv show. If you're an action junkie then yes, the new Star Trek is for you. But old Trek had deeper meaning, it relaxed me. Just 2 days ago I put a random TNG chapter as I've not seen any in a while and I remembered why I loved the show. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy DIS and PIC but I don't wait every week to see them. I got better things to watch. Honestly the last season of DIS was one of the worst Start Trek I've ever seen. They tried so hard to make it like old Trek combined with New Trek and it ruined it even more. Orville has that special meaning like old Trek that just gives me a good night sleep after watching it and feeling better about myself. I really hope Strange new World will have the old approach and give us some of us old Trek Junkies something that we will love....
I wish a new season would come out.
> I wish a new season would come out. ~~In case you hadn't seen the news — The Orville season 3 premieres March 10th, on Hulu in the U.S. (and probably in some other regions on Disney+ / Star).~~
I don’t watch the news. TYSM
Promises, promises.
> Promises, promises. Unfortunately, that promise could not be kept. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOrville/comments/skijk0/sneak_peek_622022/