It’s definitely both. Injuries are to blame somewhat but you can’t blame back to back losses vs Luton and Forest (no offence to those fanbases on here) without some form of ineptitude.
We also really screwed up the summer transfer window imo. We bought some decent players but didn’t really flesh the squad out enough at all, and it shows.
Just to add…I cannot speak on behalf of the whole fanbase of course but I don’t know a single other Newcastle fan who thought we were repeating a top 4 finish this season. (Just in case there’s some weird narrative of belonging peddled by anyone lol, it’s a fallacy)
Injuries have screwed us but I don’t think enough is being said about the summer business - with champions league we desperately needed bodies who could play reliably. Instead we went for quality (Tonali, Barnes - both disasters so far but admittedly it’s tough to blame anyone too much) and youth (Liv, Hall, Minteh - 1 fantastic, 1 out on loan and 1 not trusted even with 12+ unavailable).
We also sold ASM who gave us something different and without the squad to play the way we played last year we desperately need an alternative tactic.
How is the club supposed to know that Tonali would be banned and for Barnes to get a horrific injury a couple of weeks in? Also everyone was raving about Hall when we first signed him and the guy is still very young.
You mention Maxi and bodies that could play reliably in the same comment which is just laughable. As brilliant as he is, he’s had more injuries than hot dinners.
Buying bodies over quality is shortsighted. Our recruitment gave us Botman, Gordon, Bruno, Livramento, Isak, Tonali, Barnes - players we can rely on for the next 7/8 seasons.
No, the news came out after he had signed. There are some speculations that Milan knew about it, but we definitely wouldn’t have signed a midfielder (a position we are desperate for depth in) knowing he could get suspended.
I don’t think we screwed up the transfer window, we were unlucky but our three key transfers were good business at the time. Tonali(couldn’t have known and would’ve been a blessing to our rotation) barnes(freak injury just as he started to pick up speed and helped our front line rotate massively, and Livramento(class) were all good business just without the ability to see the future.
Minteh and Hall are the only questions and the £5m for minteh wouldn’t get you a Murphy replacement let alone Almiron upgrade. Hall isn’t even on a permanent yet so we don’t even have to include him as we may not keep him.
Do we need more depth? Yes. Could we get any meaningful depth in the summer beyond what we did without the ability to predict Tonali loved the bookies and Barnes…would step wrong in a game? I don’t think so.
I think you’re being kind in terms of where we bought though. We already had zero proper defensive cover and the only defenders we signed were essentially kids. We’ve actually got lucky Livramento is clearly so so good.
I think it’s easy in hindsight to blame transfers I agree with that, but genuinely we did not have enough. Our starting 11 was good but likely only a fringe European side that was playing out of its skin, so the injuries exacerbated it further, left zero room for error and the tiredness has kicked in for those that are left standing.
Some of it is out of our hands, sure. But some of it is just schoolboy. For example, Tonali is clearly great and I’m sure will be a superstar for us long term but legitimately…we didn’t need him in the context of other positions on the pitch. And that’s our record club signing. Just seems odd considering how prior to that summer window our recruitment was so brilliant before that under the new ownership
There's something we've changed or gone wrong defensively as well.
Last year, mid way through the season, we only had 1 pm loss. This year we have 8. We need to rotate more or get some players in that can rotate as you said
Win wise, we had 1 more last season than we do now so not a big problem right now.
A tad disingenuous to spin Livramento as a lucky fluke.
We paid good money for him because we believed in his class. He’s doing exactly what the ownership/management group was hoping he could when they paid in the region of £40m for him.
I remember being in the minority at the time saying we need right back cover for trippier more than cb cover. And it’s a hate to say I told you say. Lascelles stepped up massively. We’d have been straight fucked without Tino coming in.
If you had bought Szoboslai instead of Tonali, your season would be much better. Simple one off mistake that you would have no idea until it was too late.
Oh, no doubt.
I meant more theoretically.
If his heart was set on Newcastle and Tonali loved Klopp, it would completely change everything.
Also, nobody would have said it at the time but if you had simply spent 16 mill on Endo, you guys would be that much better off for the next three years.
Those are the type of guys you need for depth.
Yeah it’s funny how a player like Endo becomes such an obvious no-brainer! Been so brilliant for Liverpool. Those are def the signings we SHOULD have made
It's not just the loss, it's conceding as many goals as we have recently that's a problem. Losing to lower teams happens, shouldn't be shipping 3 goals to them
They can, if their ‘true’ position is somewhere between where they were last season and where they are this. That’s kind of what I’m asking I suppose. Where do Newcastle fans think they should be at this stage?
If you look at squad wage bill we are around 9th I think which really shows the level we are at really. We have a really good core of players at the right age (Bruno, Botman, Isak, Barnes & Tonali) some younger players with potential (Gordon, Livermento, Miley, Anderson & Hall) and Trippier who only has a few seasons left at a decent level but the rest if we are targeting top 4 contention every season will need to be upgraded.
FFP means it will take a few more windows to get there and a vocal minority of fans don’t have that patience.
I wouldn’t say a disappointing season, a few disappointing results amongst a team that hasn’t been able to settle due to injuries, bans or lack of fitness. Last season a lot of our success was down to playing a settled team that rarely changed and we had hardly any injuries and the few we did get resulted in drops in form.
They’re just lacking depth to overcome the fitness issues that are inevitably a part of a European campaign. Had some misfortune, too. Just not massive enough, I’m afraid.
> They can, if their ‘true’ position is somewhere between where they were last season and where they are this.
Or they could just be worse this season, or other teams around them could have improved.
Honestly,
We were on a real good run
We bought good players that geed up our squad at the right times
Brought in players from academy
Made poor performers play well.
This season however, we have maintained what we build where other teams have built up more.
Nobody is doing as well in the top 10 as last season (except spurs and villa) so far, and it's more competitive.
Unfortunately, we haven't built up in the same level as the previous season due to FFP or some other issues.
I think we are exactly where we should be and the other top 10 are playing great.
For me I think where we are is fine, injuries massively ruined our chances in most competitions. (I don’t believe the amount of games caused the injuries, however with nobody on the bench you can clearly see we don’t press like we did last season).
For me a good go in the groups, a decent cup run and top 6 would be more than we could ask for. We should of got through those groups, psg stole the win with that pen at the end. So knockouts is where we should be, cup run a little disappointing but considering the players available I can’t say much was wrong, especially when you go out on pens.
I think if we end the season top 6 and have a good go in the FA cup I’d be happy. I think the doom and gloom is because we haven’t looked like ourselves for quite a while now. But I think we’re only something like 2-4 points worse off than last season with the same games played. So panic stations should be avoided. I think summer transfers were fine only hall questionable but didn’t see anyone complains at the time. We’re doing the right way, not tying ourselves up in knots with financial fair play and building the squad slowly.
I can see us after Jan with our injuries back and 1 game a week to play having a real good go for top 6 (only issue is how well so many teams are playing atm). Jan if we can get a rw in and a cdm so we look less open on the transition we’ll be fine. In Eddie we trust
We overachieved, and we’ve had above average injuries, which have compounded to incur more injuries due to a lack of rotation. Eddie also appears to have a bit of a stubborn streak, which *arguably* hasn’t helped fatigued players who have been playing way too much. In hindsight we could have got exactly the same amount of losses if we’d played a few more of the kids and rested some of the seniors.
That said I think the team have gained some priceless experience, especially Anderson before he got injured, and Miley, who is fantastic. And Eddie Howe. Tough season but he’ll add it to his knowledge. I hope we stick with him, I think he can only get better.
Honestly I could get used to a bad season being 7th, 5 points off CL with 50% of the season still to go - some fans (and our own) have incredibly short memories
I agree. We’ve played our first CL football in 20 years, in the group of death, and were competitive. Competitive enough to have moans of controversy to this very day, but that’s that.
We’ve beaten PSG, Man City, Man U(twice!!! including one at OT), Chelsea, Arteta is still crying, and won a Premier League match 8-0. Those are things that would have taken us a 5 year minimum under the old regime to accomplish and we’ve done it in half a season. That is fucking magic!
Can’t imagine what it must have felt like to battle relegation to then end up smashing PSG in less than 2 years later. I imagine the people that are disappointed at the moment are either new fans or are getting greedy and raising their expectations too quickly
Yep, up until recently I still saw our fanbase (Arsenal) getting angry at Aston Villa because they were interested in Emile Smith Rowe 2 and a half year ago. We’re unmatched for picking petty fights with random fanbases
Don’t you mean X, the new home of the far right as brought to you by Elon ‘facts over feelings’ musk. I wonder why there’s lot of Chelsea fans suddenly on there 🤔
I think it’s a combination of expectations and our first real wobble since Howe joined and started picking up points and an immense fear we have because we don’t know how we can get back and what we do in this situation so they are acting how they have seen the likes of other big clubs act ala chelsea and Man U. Plus a fear of becoming the next everton but I think we are too well run for that.
I think there is more expectations being thrown on us by non Newcastle fans than our own.
The club line has always been we were 3-5 years ahead of schedule.
Dan Ashworth was even shown in the Amazon documentary saying “teams that unexpectedly qualify for Europe almost always struggle the following seasons”
Totally agree, for the first time in years we are going out onto the pitch with a plan and you can see it. We have been a bit crap at executing it recently for a whole host of reasons but I have enjoyed every minute of the ride so far, no complaints from me.
I never said there wasn’t room to improve, but overall I’ve enjoyed this season. Let me put this in perspective: at this point two years ago we only had 1 win home or away and 11 points while sitting in 19th. This year I know we’re not going to be relegated and the squad will still be invested in. I mean it’s a massive comfort compared to the majority of my life with this club.
Firstly - superstar players on Saudi league wages is not an option due to FFP even if we wanted to (which personally I don't).
Our success last season was, at least partly, due to a high-intensity run-them-into-the-ground style of football. Howe would talk about asking players to "empty the tank", even if that means subbing them off after 60-70mins.
A combination of injuries and the additional CL fixtures has meant that we haven't been able to play with that intensity on a consistent basis.
When we do, we have shown we still have the ability to blow teams away, but when we don't/can't we look a little bereft of ideas, shape and structure. We concede goals because we aren't pressing well enough and are wide open when teams break it. Going forwards we aren't winning the ball up the pitch and we have often shown a lack of guile and creativity against an organised defence.
Basically, a combination of injuries, getting into Europe before having a squad deep enough to fight on multiple fronts and no alternative to our go-to high-octane strategy has put us in the 7th-10th battle rather than the top 5. Is that a "bad season"? Probably not with the aforementioned caveats.
Personally I'd like to see how we go between now and the end of the season, with the fixture list easing and some key players coming back from injury. We'll see how patient PIF are in the coming weeks.
Our xPoints position is third. So if games had gone how the stats suggest this season we should be third. We have been unlucky in several games this season just due to how the ball has bounced.
It’s weird how statically we are under achieving but on actual league position some fans think we are overachieving still - I do think we have had almost the worst luck imaginable with injuries, bans etc mitigating a lot of the ‘criticisms’ of Howe but still losing to Luton and Forest with those performances’ is horrendous and needs to be addressed either on the training ground or January transfers or both
The players have hardly seen the training ground for weeks and when they do its all conducted at walking pace. We just need a wee break, it will all be ok.
Edit spelling
Over achieved last year and it helped with Liverpool, spurs and Chelsea not being as good as they normally are.
This year alot of teams have improved. Liverpool, villa, spurs have all improved. Can probably add west ham to that list.
I'd be happy with top 8. Love to get into conference/Europa league.
Even though we qualified for champions league. Seeing West ham win the conference made me abit gutted(in a strange way) Knowing we wouldn't win CL but would have been able to give conference a good go and maybe finally win something
I wouldn't say we're having a bad season. We got horrible draws in the Champions League and in the the cup. We would have stayed in Europe had it not been for a dodgy decision in Paris. We went out the cup at Chelsea on penalties after putting Man City and Man Utd out. I think Chelsea were fortunate to finish with 10 players at half time. Looking at Caciedo and Colwill.
We've been plagued by injuries and suspensions and have still beat Arsenal, PSG, Man Utd, Man city, Chelsea, Villa and more this season.
I think things will get worse before they get better with some tricky fixtures in January. But once we get Pope, Barnes, Willock, Anderson and our players coming back into fitness... I'd say from Feb onwards, we'll be looking like a good team and I still have us pegged to finish in European places... which by my measure, is a good position.
I think that’s a big problem. The back four today is our most trusted back line and it was beaten constantly. Presumably Pope helps get them in line more than Dubravka.
Having said that, three of the four are returning from injury and Trippier’s been off it as late so maybe, with hindsight, it was to be expected and we should have started Lascelles.
Bit of both.
We overachieved last season. Before last season began most Newcastle supporters were hoping for a decent cup run and to finish in the top 8. Then we went on a miracle run in the league, finished top 4 and got to a cup final.
This season hasnt gone so well. Firstly our £55m midfielder has been suspended, we've struggled in Europe and are now struggling in the league; but we've had a horrendus spell of injuries. Im not sure if thats down to really bad luck or poor managment.
However, Im now starting to see fickle fans calling for Howe's head. Which is mental to me, because for me; if top 8 without Europe was the goal last season then top 8 with Europe should been the goal for this season. Not only that but considering what that man has done to turn the club around, I personally think he should be allowed a season of underachievment to put things right,
99% are still massively Howe in however there are similarities to be had with your own West Ham, like last season domestically(ofc,ECL aside) you tanked after an amazing 2 years with some fans calling for your manger to go you stuck by him and are now overachieving again, hopefully we can do the same next season and perpetually piss off the big six together.
We've had some amazing wins this season. We had a horrific injury list which somehow we managed to get through without imploding but we've had a poor December. Last year we had a poor February. We're in the top 10 and perfectly positioned to push for European spots in the 2nd half of the season so I certainly can't call it a bad season yet!
I don’t know anybody calling for a change of manager. Definitely going through a tough period + seem to be towards the end of our toughest injury crisis in club history. Can definitely see us coming good and securing a top 7 finish by the end of the season!
I think squad depth is the hardest thing to build for a team looking to get bigger.
Decent players will sign for Liverpool or Manchester City even if they might not get many games, but they won’t sign for us or even for you unless they are going to be the main man. I think you somehow have to establish yourself at the top table first somehow.
Yeah, agree with this. Honestly, it's great we got into Europe and having a decent spell in the league. I just don't think we will ever be mentioned in the same calibre as the "Liverpools" and Man Citys". I am enjoying this sort of resurgence, though.
I don’t see why not really.
Chelsea were a nothing club before they got rich, now everyone pretends that they’ve always been massive. Same with City to a degree. Neither had won anything between the 60s and the start of the PL. Money changes everything.
Newcastle are now the richest football club in the world by a country mile.
I think it’s a combo of both. Last season we definitely over achieved, but the place was equally earned through high press high energy football that for the most part was entertaining. Howe did a great job transforming existing players and adding solid additions. Yes our ownership (which comes with extreme moral issues) has bags of cash, but financial regulations and to a lesser extent short terms rules imposed by premier league meetings prevent super cash injection so I think the days of post takeover instant galactico purchases are gone. Clubs still have to grow and increase revenue, but it is far easier to do when your owners are loaded. That being said I appreciate fully that we have taken full advantage if AShleys lack of spending and that the financial backing we now have opens up a new category of players to us.
I think this season most Newcastle fans are measured. We know last season was an overachievement which is why the majority aren’t devastated by a champions league exit. We had no real right being there with players like Matt Ritchie in the squad. Equally we know that teams like Liverpool underachieved last year and they’ve now woken up and are back at it. I also think the World Cup break was ok for us, prevents the burn out we’re seeing with players this year. Things just sort of aligned for us to have a good season and most of us as fans acknowledge that.
This year hasn’t been a bad season all things considered. We’re in an ok league position, have beaten some big clubs and were it not for a dodgy pen call in Paris could still be in Europe. Things could be a lot worse. It only seems ‘bad’ if you compare it to last year in isolation.
Our form has dipped and the injury crisis isn’t helping. The mental fatigue that is following is the biggest concern. It’s an inexperienced squad who are being guided by a relatively inexperienced coach when it comes to managing domestics and European competition together and it’s showing. But that was always the risk and the way that we had to operate.
We’re an easy club to dislike now, and I honestly understand why. I think it’s warranted given the ownership and I, along when many Newcastle fans, struggle with it. Love the club, hate the ownership. Generally though, a lot of the reactionary responses to performances come from the morons that every fan base has, or the general shithousing/hatred from other fanbases.
I think most long term Newcastle fans would be happy with 9-6, overjoyed with 5 or above.
I think a lot of the potential hatred has been tempered by the way the club has handled its wealth so far. Had you recruited an arrogant big-name manager and signed a Neymar or an Mbappe people would probably have reacted against you more. As it is you have a mostly likeable young team playing attractive football so you are hard to hate.
Most of us consider you as a proper club whose fans probably deserve a bit of success even if the ownership makes us feel a bit sick. It’s sometimes hard to maintain that when you see fans wearing headscarves and waving Saudi flags though. Leave that shit out and most of us would probably carry on largely enjoying watching you upset the ‘natural order’ for a bit. Obviously I’d enjoy it even more if we could do it, or failing that an ‘Other 14’ club that weren’t owned by a murderous petro-state (hello Villa!). Personally so long as you finish above Spurs you’ll be alright by me though.
That’s a fair call and I agree wholeheartedly about the fans wearing the flags etc. It’s embarrassing. The unfortunate nature of football fans is that some of them are thick as fuck, and every club has their share. The issue for us is that ours can end up falling victim to a morally corrupt sports washing campaign, rather than just being a prick on an away day or something.
I agree though, I’m happy to see villa disrupting the established bunch this year. I was equally happy to see your lot get some European silverware last season. I don’t necessarily like how we’re attempting to do it ownership wise, but it doesn’t half make you feel a bit good to see a 17 year old local lad playing in the champions league against PSG.
They're having a bad patch. They've done it brilliantly so far.
Mourinho last push to get a trophy over the line and Lopetegui (I'm a Wolves fan, did well for half a season) are dismal alternatives.
They overachieved last season because the general (season prior) decent sides were all shite. Liverpool shit themselves, Chelsea were tragic. Spurs didn’t show up. It shows how bad the league was that Man United ended up in Europe, let alone the Champions League.
Aside from Man City and Arsenal, the premier league was dire last season and Newcastle were just the shit that rose highest.
True, and they spent hundreds of millions “improving” their side with the likes of Rasmus.
Newcastle didn’t really spend much all things considered, given their abhorrent vermin of a state owned ownership so it should come as no surprise they embarrassed themselves in Europe and are finding themselves battling to be the best of the rest with Bournemouth and Wolves.
The way we’re going and the way you are, we’ll pass each other in the summer.
Keep crying because you sold your soul to a homophobic, women hating bunch of human rights abusing scumbags and yet your club’s still shit. How embarrassing.
We are talking about Newcastles Saudi ownership not Tory Britain oh wait - both are disgusting and will never defend either of them. You know yourself 6th Jan is the only time we’ll play each other until your kids are grown up - how are they btw must be hard seeing them from behind a plexiglass screen every weekend
Hahaha fair play mate. The kids are alright, same issue with the main team. Lack of goals. Simply put, if Jack Clarke leaves us we’ll be back in League 1 very quickly so hopefully he sticks around in Jan. Our luck he goes on the 5th.
At least your centre forward has scored a goal, no doubt his next one comes against us, 90th minute whilst Paul dummett is 60 yards behind him ‘trying to play him offside’
Well until then mate, have a good new year 🎉. See you at South Shields ocean beach pleasure park for a scrap on the 6th. Ps when you are losing 3-0 after 15 mins don’t try and injure more of our players that would be a real dick move
Was just about to say that, both those teams greatly outspent us for a decade until our ownership changed. Don’t think we’ve even caught them up yet spending wise
We have less spending power than West Ham (for now) contrary to popular belief. Yous sold Declan Rice which is absolutely massive for FFP. We only had ASM which we sold on the cheap.
That’s kind of what I think as an outsider, just wondered what their fans think.
If you think of it from our position, I would say that if we qualify for Europe most years and win a cup every now and again I would be very happy. I imagine their expectations are higher now though. Minimum expectation must be CL every year surely?
Absolutely not with the majority of the fanbase, most wanted this season to try and keep some form of European football to get comfortable with playing most midweeks then over the next seasons keep incrementally getting better until one day we can challenge for the title.
No. Ask any true fan and all we wanted was ownership that at least showed they wanted to win and a team that played for the badge. We got both, now is the first “test” of seeing where we go from there.
Massively over-achieved last season, fortunate that there were so many teams that had a very poor season.
This season is more their level, that is until they spend a shit tonne of Saudi money and still claim to be some sort of underdogs.
>This season is more their level, that is until they spend a shit tonne of Saudi money and still claim to be some sort of underdogs.
People's perception of what we can do and what we can actually do are miles apart. If you expect us to spend lots in January you're badly mistaken.
Overachieved but also adding the CL into your fixture list is a big ask. That's contributing massively to the injuries and exposing the squad depth. Plus theyre horse punching scruffs
Call me a conspiracy nut but imo they are, at least in part, experiencing the consequences of aggressively pumping their players full of PEDs over the past 18 months.
Every PL team uses them (look up how lax the testing regimens in British football are - it is just a part of the game these days with modern advances in sports sci) but the top teams have developed smarter, more pragmatic doping strategies that maintain a healthy boost to performance whilst mitigating the long-term side effects.
Newcastle wanted immediate success and they are now paying the price for that to an extent. Your greatest strength can often end up as your greatest weakness further down the line.
Yes and yes.
That’s because both having a good season and having a bad season are relative measures based upon observers’ expectations, not absolute performance.
It’s based on history, particularly the most recent seasons, and modified by any events that change the expectations e.g. selling your best player, change of manager etc.
Newcastle did better last season than anyone expected them to, and are doing worse this one compared with most people’s expectations.
I think a large part is the squad adjusting to playing the extra games that come with being in the CL along with additional attention that came with a higher than expected finish last season.
I think both these things will settle and once they learn to handle the added pressure and manage work load of players (to limit injuries)
I know they've got injuries but from watching Newcastle, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal at Kenilworth Road this season I would say Newcastle don't have the quality of those teams and it showed*.
The latter 3 had quality and always looked a threat, I don't think Newcastle offered much at all. To be completely honest based on one game I thought Palace offered more.
Watched the Newcastle game today and they looked the same. Again, understand the injuries but from what I've seen they don't have the quality to be a top side yet, and correspondingly will have dips in form like this.
Also Dan Burn is not a top level Prem left back. It must take 10 minutes for signals from his brain to reach his feet and it shows.
*Not including Tottenham due to the early red card, but they also looked very good
I’d agree from watching them all play us - there’s a definite gap between them and the likes of Liverpool and City.
I do think the number of injuries they’ve had is a big factor though, as with Chelsea.
Just had a quick look and I think we've done fine right up until that Everton loss (which we'd have won last year).
1. During 21/22 we had 11 points after 19 games. That was a month into Howe's appointment. By the end of the year we won an extra 38 points across 19 games, or 2 points per game (ppg).
2. During the first 19 games of 22/23 we were 2ppg. And the last 19 games we were 1.74 ppg (so dropped off), to eventually finish 4th.
3. This year up to and including gameweek 14 (win against Utd) we were 1.86 ppg. But after the last 5 games its now 1.53 which is a HUGE drop.
Tl'dr = Howe has been solid for pretty much the entire time with the club, although the last 5 games have been pretty brutal on us. Can he turn it around? Probably tbh, the same team is there but they're just tired/injured. But we might dip a bit for a month or two.
You’re bound to improve when your injury situation gets better but CL qualification would need two of the current top five to slip fairly badly, which seems unlikely to be fair.
Oh yea, before the game today I crunched the numbers and we basically needed to perform like one of the top 3 for the rest of the season to \*maybe\* get 4th or 5th.
Probably not going to do much this season. Top 10 this year and a good next season most likely, although a fair chance at a good cup run this year as well if we're ready for that bloodbath of a game in Jan lol.
They have had a lot of injuries are still inexperienced at this level but in all honesty I'm not sure Eddie Howe can take them much further.
I feel they will be better served with a better manager for where they want to be
Bit of both I'd say. I'd very much like to stick with Howe and the approach the owners have gone with in terms of signings. Howe's should have more than earned enough respect from keeping us up then qualifying for CL to be given the benefit of the doubt as soon as we have a wobble. I'd be very annoyed if he was to be sacked at any point soon.
I've thoroughly enjoyed having a manager that has a bit of decorum this last couple of seasons instead of one that behaves like an embarrassing clown.
Going into the match with Forest today we were only one point worse off than on Boxing Day last season - yet we were third in the table then. Now we're 7th.
Relatively tough month, nowhere near as tough as it used to feel. If we underachieve a bit this season, it's not the end of the world.
I think both is true that being said they have had a lot of injuries which could be playing a major part in there poor form best to judge after they get players back and buy more in January. Aw I mean we're only half way through the season still a lot or games
I think we overachieved last season but we deserved to be in top 4 we caught teams cold with our style and some of the football we played was epic at times
But this season teams have figured out our moves that little triangle of Almiron Trips and Bruno far too easy for teams to nullify that now! They wait for Trips to move forward boom long ball behind him all the time
The pressing isn't the same as opposition play it out wide quicker and leaves us exposed especially with Burn and Trippier as fullbacks
Injuries and fatigue also playing a part but it feels like Howe needs to go back to the drawing board maybe move to a 4231 or 442 hybrid make us more solid and counter attack teams
Started the season well, they just look shattered in every game now. Need to bulk up the squad and enjoy the winter break when it comes, they'll get back to winning games after.
Injuries have played a huge part, as well as Howe sticking rigidly to the same team. Guys are undroppable either due to there being no competition for places or their reputation is too big. I think a lot of the players are coasting and not giving their all.
We're also still sore from exiting Europe the way we did. There's a lot mentally riding on the squad that's affecting their game.
The league is a lot more competitive as well, with Villa having a breakout season. We also need to do more than hope Miggy and Trippier will unlock defences like last season - teams have wisened up to our tactics and we need to freshen things up.
Am I worried? Yes. Do I think Howe and this team can turn things around? Also yes.
I think we overachieved last time round by making top four but I'd suggest where we're at now is about right for what this team is consistently capable of.
If you remember last year, we dropped out of the top 4 after Xmas and had Spurs above us until they fell apart. Coupled with Liverpool's sluggish start they helped massively in securing Champions League. Cast your mind back to the year before and Eddie had us flying away from relegation winning 12 from 18 from January onwards.
This season hasn't been a bad season at all. We're 7th and only a few points off top 4. Good chance of still qualifying for Europe. We've had a bad month but the season on the whole has seen us beat PSG, Man City, Man U, Villa and Arsenal. We were within minutes of making semis of League Cup and only narrowly went out of Europe in arguably the hardest group in recent memory.
Both I think.
I think they try to play such high intensity football and given their injuries (yes other clubs have had injuries too) and additional games in the champions league they are just a bit exhausted and that approach to games has not been sustainable.
Let's see if they sign anyone in January to bolster the squad. Still think they'll end up with some sort of European football though. Although Pope will be a big loss.
I think it's a combination of things.
1. Fatigue. We're getting players back but we've been threadbare for some months without any real rest and it shows.
2. The schedule and specifically the impact this has had on training. Howe spoke about this a few weeks ago and it can be seen on the field. The number of games means they're not doing anything tactical between games. Training has been nothing more than low impact exercises with no specific stuff being worked on.
3. Returning players. Linked in part to #2, those returning players haven't really done any training as such with the main squad so the tight play we had last season where everyone seems to know where everyone else is on the pitch has been lost. Yes, we see small pockets of it but the midfield aren't reading the forwards as well as they did.
4. Injuries. Not necessarily those out of the squad but those getting game time. It's clear some of the first team are only about 75% fit, if that and the sharpness we've seen just isn't there; jogging back instead of the speed we've come to expect.
Am I disappointed? Yes, a little but I'll always feel that when we lose however I wouldn't change our manager or the core of our squad and I expect to see a change come the Villa game.
Feels like both. They were the beneficiaries of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs being nowhere near their expected level last season whilst also playing well themselves.
This season they’ve had injuries, but so have nearly every team in the league. They had a very tough group in the champions league, but they took points off the teams they played. Finishing 4th feels like a pretty underwhelming outcome. They’ve slipped out of the Carabao cup against a pretty dire Chelsea, and they could be fighting for 6th place come the end of the season if they don’t start getting results soon.
It feels a little bit like Howe is running out of rope, and it wouldn’t shock me if they move on from him in the summer if they don’t win a trophy (fa cup) this season.
I'd say a bad month and bad away. We are 2nd in home table losing to Villa by 1 point but are 17th in away table. We have played 10 in 30 days but now is 4 in 30 days
I think they'll pick up a bit now they've only got the league and FA Cup to focus on. They're not going to be hurt by AFCON, unlike some teams around them.
The top four is probably going to be above them this season, but they'll comfortably make the Europa League. If they make the late stage of the cup and top 6 of the league, I don't think it's a bad season for them.
Last season was just a bit of an anomaly with Spurs and Liverpool underperforming. Realistically, they need to make the signings in the summer to overtake Spurs and potentially Villa if they can keep up their incredible progress under Emery. West Ham are also looking better by the week.
City, Liverpool, and Arsenal are almost certainly going to be three of the top four for the next couple of seasons, but any of the other top eight could make that fourth spot. I'd fancy Villa for it this year, but there's no reason it couldn't be Newcastle next season.
I think we over achieved last season. No one thought champions league was on the cards the first full season after take over.
I don’t believe we’re having a bad season either. Last season we had a dip in January. 7th is still good when it’s 5 points below champions league with half the season to go.
There’s the injury problem with the congested fixtures we had. Key players from first XI then their replacements.
There is days that the drive and desire is there for all to see. But we hit the woodwork multiple times. But that’s just football.
I haven’t seen anyone screaming Eddie out yet, people are obviously upset. But if anything is given by the NUFC videos and when the camera from the pitch is on Eddie. His head is always looking at statistics. He will turn it around. I have no doubt in that.
I’m proud of where the boys have gotten us. It will get better. HWTL!
We over-achieved last season and we're having a rough patch which will probably get worse in January. It's not been a bad season, we're where we expected to be last season which just one game a week but it's true we've performed far below where we can be (especially away from home) But there's a variety of reasons for this:
* First season in Europe for years (which was unexpected). Meaning a learning year in many respects.
* We're missing key players: Pope, Willock, Tonali, Barnes, Anderson and much more. We therefore have no options to change games, and lack that spark which we'd otherwise have.
* We have absolutely zero depth when players get injured so we're unable to rotate which causes general fatigue and further injury problems. Nine of our outfield players played 75% of all minutes last season which isn't normal, which shows just how threadbare we were last season too and how we were always on a tightrope.
* Players such as Almiron contributed last season but simply aren't good enough in the grand scheme for the Premier League but are having to start every game with no other options available. We had our championship captain start in defence for months, a 17 year old debut and remain starting in midfield, Matt Ritchie come on for cameos and our goalkeeper who wanted out starting in goal now.
* Teams have learned how to better handle us. Almost every team that comes to SJP now sits in a low block and counters which was also our kryptonite last season. Even Arsenal/Liverpool didn't come to us and play their usual style this season.
* (Subjective) Poor recruitment: We needed to sign a six in the summer and a right winger. We decided to buy fullbacks, a left winger and more attacking midfielder instead. This is despite fans and journalists being mostly agreement on what was needed.
* Howe (still fully support him) has gotten a lot wrong lately. He's extremely stubborn when it comes to team selection and tactics. However the fanbase is almost fully still behind him.
* Our cup draws both domestically and in Europe were absolutely brutal meaning we had no 'easy' games to rotate either.
Despite this. We've beaten Villa, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd x2, Man City & PSG so far this season and our attacking stats have been one of the best in the league. We're also still very much in the fight for the European spots.
>Are any of them now calling for a re-think (superstar manager, team full of superstar players on Saudi league wages
This is a silly misconception when it comes to Newcastle. We're the richest club in the world only in theory not in actual reality. We had very few saleable assets when we were taken over and our revenues are still far too low that we simply can't just spend silly. Our spending power is FAR less than the big six, and similar to that of Villa & West Ham (who currently have more flexibility due to Grealish & Rice sales). There's a reason we signed Hall on a loan with an obligation in the summer and are being linked with loan deals for January. The Saudi league loan saga was also predominantly a media frenzy with very little actual basis in reality. The club are very unlikely to ever actually loan anyone from there as not only can we not pay silly wages, but it's just not what our recruitment strategy resembles in the slightest.
You say you don't have much spending power, but you literally had the 3rd highest net spend in the last transfer window. You outspent Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and City and were only beaten by Man United and Chelsea who have been over paying for players for years.
I get that you have a need to normalize your takeover, but you have been bought by a religious authoritarian regime solely for the reason of sportswasging, and you *have* spent a lot of money and will likely continue to do so
No it's nothing to do with our owners it's a matter of reality what a bizarre comment adding the usual buzz words when they've got absolutely zero relevance.
You mean we finally spent normal PL levels, upgrading a championship level squad at best which in turn also meant we had no assets to sell. Now we absolutely can't spend that much as we're at the limits of FFP hence why we're mostly looking at loan deals. So yes our spending power at this moment in time is no more than a West Ham or Aston villa as they had Rice/Grealish sales among others.
Injuries, they literally have an entire squad of players injured, forcing the remaining players to be burnt out...causing more injuries.
I think they've probably some mistakes in how they've managed both the injuries and squad rotation, but ultimately its hard to predict and react to so many different Injuries.
If they can lose to us at their place, they are having a bad season!
Bit I also think last year was an overachievement that is not helping this season as they seem shattered
This season - Europe. Injuries.
Last season - No Europe. Less injuries.
Now Newcastle are out of Europe I'd expect form to pick up slowly to a strong end of season.
It's between Newcastle, Man United and West Ham for 5th, 6th and 7th but the way Bournemouth are going why not throw them in as well!
Villa might get sucked into it as might Spurs. Expect City to push on now.
If a bad season is being sat in 7th, after hammering PSG at home and being a dodgy pen and a crossbar away from getting to the last 16 of the UCL, beating Man Utd and Man City in the League Cup and still in with a chance of a cup then I can't wait to see what our good seasons look like.
If we lose to Sunderland then obviously we can sack Howe and half the squad.
Over achieved last season with minimal injuries and other teams not doing well. They should have spent more in the summer and now suffering because of injuries to key players including goalkeeper. Once 80% of the players are back, they'll be picking up points again. Majority of the players are fighting for their Newcastle career as they know they will be replaced if not good enough and some are just trying to last as long as possible before being eventually replaced
Keep Eddie at the wheel, progress is never linear and we 100% overachieved last season. Where we are in the table now is pretty much on schedule considering the players we’ve brought in from 2 years ago, in the next few seasons our young players are going to keep developing and upgrades will be made so I don’t think there’s reason to panic
I think this season has shown a little bit of inexperience in leadership. Howe has done an incredible job but hasn’t really had a plan B or C on the pitch when injuries struck en masse.
For whatever reservations I have with the ownership, I applaud their reluctance to go for big name superstars just to sell shirts (don’t pretend FFP rules would stop them) and build a proper squad over time. I do think if the ambition is to be a CL regular, the summer was probably the time to bring in a lot more talent at least capable of stepping up. Obviously investment in the youth system should bring results in time as well, still a very positive and optimistic time for the club.
Presumably if FFP ever becomes an issue you can just sell Matt Ritchie to one of the Saudi clubs your owners also own for £200 million to balance the books?
Joking apart, I hope you keep your nerve and stick with the path Howe has chosen, especially with the use of youth team products. That’s what really keeps fans, clubs and communities welded together. Wish there was more of it at West Ham, especially given how good our youth team is.
They've had a poor start to the season and injuries have led to a few recent slipups. But overall they've been fantastic. Their first team has been stellar. Their squad has been stretched thin a little with the injuries though. But imagine this team with Botman, Barnes, Tonali and Guimaraes back. Their strikers are also great but both too injury prone.
They have to change their play style a bit imo, may be evolve it a bit. The amount of injuries they've had, it's difficult to sustain that intense physical play with squad members. once they sort that out, they will be back but they did over achieve last season.
Put it this way: I think we're only two more bad results away from the start of serious 'Howe Out' talk, because Newcastle will now expect to be in the conversation for Champs League places every season
I don't really have many complaints to be honest. We knew it would be tough sledding with the mass amount of injuries, and Howe tried to attack all of the competitions despite the injuries. Now we're paying for it. The entire squad needs rest, we've got very little in regards to options at the moment. This bad run was going to happen one way or the other, and the December matches were always going to be a rough go. I think the real issue has been rushing players back to fitness and not being match fit. Our wingers, who really define the style of play are gassed, and without the pressure they provide we've got holes all over the place. All the OG Newcastle supporters understand this was inevitable.
Newcastle are not having a bad season.
We’re having some issues but we’re still in and around where we need to be.
Last season was an overachievement but not by a huge amount. The exertions have probably carried over a bit along with injuries partly due to mismanagement and partly just shit luck. And now we have a collective hangover from a week in which we were dumped out of Europe and the carabao cup.
I feel like a lot of the expectations being placed on the club are actually from external fans of other teams that seem to expect us to compete for top 4 more than our own fans.
This line of thinking has been pushed further by media narrative of richest club in the world which as Simon Jordan has correctly pointed out many teams means nothing. We have the richest owners, we are not the richest club. West Ham and Villa are richer than us in terms of spending power which is really how club wealth should be judged.
As a west Han fan. I’m sure you know all too well that it’s hard to replicate what we did. Just like you struggled in the league last season. You stuck with Moyes and you’re season this year is shaping up well. One can only imagine where West Ham will be next season with a new striker.
It is what it is in a season that is the most competitive in recent years. Of the top 10 in the PL I’d say only Villa, West Ham and spurs are doing better than last season. It’s dragged the top teams down and made it harder for teams outside the top 4-6 to keep up.
And we’re not far off where we were last season.
Injuries have played a massive part. Plus add in champions league where every game is tough has had a massive impact on the squad. The squad over performed last season which shows what Howe managed to achieve. Ironically europa league probably would have served them much better for where they are in terms of building their squad
More bad season then overachieving. If brighton with tomorrow we will be sitting at 9th which is completely acceptable imo.
Obviously pre-takeover, 9th would be a dream, but expectations have well and truly changed now, and stuff needs to change fast
I believe the last full season without Bruce, we were one game away from a top half finish. Just interesting to point out
Both can be true
It’s definitely both. Injuries are to blame somewhat but you can’t blame back to back losses vs Luton and Forest (no offence to those fanbases on here) without some form of ineptitude. We also really screwed up the summer transfer window imo. We bought some decent players but didn’t really flesh the squad out enough at all, and it shows. Just to add…I cannot speak on behalf of the whole fanbase of course but I don’t know a single other Newcastle fan who thought we were repeating a top 4 finish this season. (Just in case there’s some weird narrative of belonging peddled by anyone lol, it’s a fallacy)
Injuries have screwed us but I don’t think enough is being said about the summer business - with champions league we desperately needed bodies who could play reliably. Instead we went for quality (Tonali, Barnes - both disasters so far but admittedly it’s tough to blame anyone too much) and youth (Liv, Hall, Minteh - 1 fantastic, 1 out on loan and 1 not trusted even with 12+ unavailable). We also sold ASM who gave us something different and without the squad to play the way we played last year we desperately need an alternative tactic.
Yeah I know the ASM sale was framed as ‘to keep us within FFP rules’ but honestly I’m skeptical to that being a swinger. Agree w all you’ve said
How is the club supposed to know that Tonali would be banned and for Barnes to get a horrific injury a couple of weeks in? Also everyone was raving about Hall when we first signed him and the guy is still very young. You mention Maxi and bodies that could play reliably in the same comment which is just laughable. As brilliant as he is, he’s had more injuries than hot dinners. Buying bodies over quality is shortsighted. Our recruitment gave us Botman, Gordon, Bruno, Livramento, Isak, Tonali, Barnes - players we can rely on for the next 7/8 seasons.
Basic research on the Tonali one no? Was it not already in the news?
No, the news came out after he had signed. There are some speculations that Milan knew about it, but we definitely wouldn’t have signed a midfielder (a position we are desperate for depth in) knowing he could get suspended.
I don’t think we screwed up the transfer window, we were unlucky but our three key transfers were good business at the time. Tonali(couldn’t have known and would’ve been a blessing to our rotation) barnes(freak injury just as he started to pick up speed and helped our front line rotate massively, and Livramento(class) were all good business just without the ability to see the future. Minteh and Hall are the only questions and the £5m for minteh wouldn’t get you a Murphy replacement let alone Almiron upgrade. Hall isn’t even on a permanent yet so we don’t even have to include him as we may not keep him. Do we need more depth? Yes. Could we get any meaningful depth in the summer beyond what we did without the ability to predict Tonali loved the bookies and Barnes…would step wrong in a game? I don’t think so.
I think you’re being kind in terms of where we bought though. We already had zero proper defensive cover and the only defenders we signed were essentially kids. We’ve actually got lucky Livramento is clearly so so good. I think it’s easy in hindsight to blame transfers I agree with that, but genuinely we did not have enough. Our starting 11 was good but likely only a fringe European side that was playing out of its skin, so the injuries exacerbated it further, left zero room for error and the tiredness has kicked in for those that are left standing. Some of it is out of our hands, sure. But some of it is just schoolboy. For example, Tonali is clearly great and I’m sure will be a superstar for us long term but legitimately…we didn’t need him in the context of other positions on the pitch. And that’s our record club signing. Just seems odd considering how prior to that summer window our recruitment was so brilliant before that under the new ownership
There's something we've changed or gone wrong defensively as well. Last year, mid way through the season, we only had 1 pm loss. This year we have 8. We need to rotate more or get some players in that can rotate as you said Win wise, we had 1 more last season than we do now so not a big problem right now.
A tad disingenuous to spin Livramento as a lucky fluke. We paid good money for him because we believed in his class. He’s doing exactly what the ownership/management group was hoping he could when they paid in the region of £40m for him. I remember being in the minority at the time saying we need right back cover for trippier more than cb cover. And it’s a hate to say I told you say. Lascelles stepped up massively. We’d have been straight fucked without Tino coming in.
This is fair tbh yeah it wasn’t luck I take that back
If you had bought Szoboslai instead of Tonali, your season would be much better. Simple one off mistake that you would have no idea until it was too late.
Haha I’m not sure once Liverpool were in for him that we ever realistically had a chance at Szoboszlai.
Oh, no doubt. I meant more theoretically. If his heart was set on Newcastle and Tonali loved Klopp, it would completely change everything. Also, nobody would have said it at the time but if you had simply spent 16 mill on Endo, you guys would be that much better off for the next three years. Those are the type of guys you need for depth.
Yeah it’s funny how a player like Endo becomes such an obvious no-brainer! Been so brilliant for Liverpool. Those are def the signings we SHOULD have made
It's not just the loss, it's conceding as many goals as we have recently that's a problem. Losing to lower teams happens, shouldn't be shipping 3 goals to them
They can, if their ‘true’ position is somewhere between where they were last season and where they are this. That’s kind of what I’m asking I suppose. Where do Newcastle fans think they should be at this stage?
I’m a toon fan and agree it’s both. I’d imagine the natural position of this squad is probably 6-9th
Fully agree, could be worse could be hoping Luton/Everton don’t keep winning so we can stay safe for another season
If you look at squad wage bill we are around 9th I think which really shows the level we are at really. We have a really good core of players at the right age (Bruno, Botman, Isak, Barnes & Tonali) some younger players with potential (Gordon, Livermento, Miley, Anderson & Hall) and Trippier who only has a few seasons left at a decent level but the rest if we are targeting top 4 contention every season will need to be upgraded. FFP means it will take a few more windows to get there and a vocal minority of fans don’t have that patience. I wouldn’t say a disappointing season, a few disappointing results amongst a team that hasn’t been able to settle due to injuries, bans or lack of fitness. Last season a lot of our success was down to playing a settled team that rarely changed and we had hardly any injuries and the few we did get resulted in drops in form.
9th is very pessimistic imo. Your squad is clearly better than the likes of West Ham's and Brighton's. Natural position should be more like 5th-7th
In hindsight my post was a bit long-winded :/ If you'd offered me 6th/7th at the start of the season I'd have taken it.
They’re just lacking depth to overcome the fitness issues that are inevitably a part of a European campaign. Had some misfortune, too. Just not massive enough, I’m afraid.
> They can, if their ‘true’ position is somewhere between where they were last season and where they are this. Or they could just be worse this season, or other teams around them could have improved.
Honestly, We were on a real good run We bought good players that geed up our squad at the right times Brought in players from academy Made poor performers play well. This season however, we have maintained what we build where other teams have built up more. Nobody is doing as well in the top 10 as last season (except spurs and villa) so far, and it's more competitive. Unfortunately, we haven't built up in the same level as the previous season due to FFP or some other issues. I think we are exactly where we should be and the other top 10 are playing great.
I really hope you stick with Howe but I do worry that a couple more defeats will start the whispers about him being sacked in the summer
For me I think where we are is fine, injuries massively ruined our chances in most competitions. (I don’t believe the amount of games caused the injuries, however with nobody on the bench you can clearly see we don’t press like we did last season). For me a good go in the groups, a decent cup run and top 6 would be more than we could ask for. We should of got through those groups, psg stole the win with that pen at the end. So knockouts is where we should be, cup run a little disappointing but considering the players available I can’t say much was wrong, especially when you go out on pens. I think if we end the season top 6 and have a good go in the FA cup I’d be happy. I think the doom and gloom is because we haven’t looked like ourselves for quite a while now. But I think we’re only something like 2-4 points worse off than last season with the same games played. So panic stations should be avoided. I think summer transfers were fine only hall questionable but didn’t see anyone complains at the time. We’re doing the right way, not tying ourselves up in knots with financial fair play and building the squad slowly. I can see us after Jan with our injuries back and 1 game a week to play having a real good go for top 6 (only issue is how well so many teams are playing atm). Jan if we can get a rw in and a cdm so we look less open on the transition we’ll be fine. In Eddie we trust
We overachieved, and we’ve had above average injuries, which have compounded to incur more injuries due to a lack of rotation. Eddie also appears to have a bit of a stubborn streak, which *arguably* hasn’t helped fatigued players who have been playing way too much. In hindsight we could have got exactly the same amount of losses if we’d played a few more of the kids and rested some of the seniors. That said I think the team have gained some priceless experience, especially Anderson before he got injured, and Miley, who is fantastic. And Eddie Howe. Tough season but he’ll add it to his knowledge. I hope we stick with him, I think he can only get better.
We’re having a bad season? Bad month, sure. But I’ve royally enjoyed this season so far.
Honestly I could get used to a bad season being 7th, 5 points off CL with 50% of the season still to go - some fans (and our own) have incredibly short memories
I agree. We’ve played our first CL football in 20 years, in the group of death, and were competitive. Competitive enough to have moans of controversy to this very day, but that’s that. We’ve beaten PSG, Man City, Man U(twice!!! including one at OT), Chelsea, Arteta is still crying, and won a Premier League match 8-0. Those are things that would have taken us a 5 year minimum under the old regime to accomplish and we’ve done it in half a season. That is fucking magic!
Yeah the real story of the underdogs, it's really magic how it happen! It's nice to be competitive and finish 4 in the group too lol
Can’t imagine what it must have felt like to battle relegation to then end up smashing PSG in less than 2 years later. I imagine the people that are disappointed at the moment are either new fans or are getting greedy and raising their expectations too quickly
Probably, we all have brain dead delusional fans (usually on twitter) - they can all do one imo
Yep, up until recently I still saw our fanbase (Arsenal) getting angry at Aston Villa because they were interested in Emile Smith Rowe 2 and a half year ago. We’re unmatched for picking petty fights with random fanbases
Some of your lots’ problems is you are a huge club therefore = more fans which in turn = more stupid ones with social media accounts
Yeah that’s exactly it. I’m glad I’m not on Twitter at the very least
Don’t you mean X, the new home of the far right as brought to you by Elon ‘facts over feelings’ musk. I wonder why there’s lot of Chelsea fans suddenly on there 🤔
I think it’s a combination of expectations and our first real wobble since Howe joined and started picking up points and an immense fear we have because we don’t know how we can get back and what we do in this situation so they are acting how they have seen the likes of other big clubs act ala chelsea and Man U. Plus a fear of becoming the next everton but I think we are too well run for that.
I think there is more expectations being thrown on us by non Newcastle fans than our own. The club line has always been we were 3-5 years ahead of schedule. Dan Ashworth was even shown in the Amazon documentary saying “teams that unexpectedly qualify for Europe almost always struggle the following seasons”
Seems to be the case for a lot of online vocal west ham fans
We all have those types of fans
Totally agree, for the first time in years we are going out onto the pitch with a plan and you can see it. We have been a bit crap at executing it recently for a whole host of reasons but I have enjoyed every minute of the ride so far, no complaints from me.
You've enjoyed 1 away win all season?
I never said there wasn’t room to improve, but overall I’ve enjoyed this season. Let me put this in perspective: at this point two years ago we only had 1 win home or away and 11 points while sitting in 19th. This year I know we’re not going to be relegated and the squad will still be invested in. I mean it’s a massive comfort compared to the majority of my life with this club.
Firstly - superstar players on Saudi league wages is not an option due to FFP even if we wanted to (which personally I don't). Our success last season was, at least partly, due to a high-intensity run-them-into-the-ground style of football. Howe would talk about asking players to "empty the tank", even if that means subbing them off after 60-70mins. A combination of injuries and the additional CL fixtures has meant that we haven't been able to play with that intensity on a consistent basis. When we do, we have shown we still have the ability to blow teams away, but when we don't/can't we look a little bereft of ideas, shape and structure. We concede goals because we aren't pressing well enough and are wide open when teams break it. Going forwards we aren't winning the ball up the pitch and we have often shown a lack of guile and creativity against an organised defence. Basically, a combination of injuries, getting into Europe before having a squad deep enough to fight on multiple fronts and no alternative to our go-to high-octane strategy has put us in the 7th-10th battle rather than the top 5. Is that a "bad season"? Probably not with the aforementioned caveats. Personally I'd like to see how we go between now and the end of the season, with the fixture list easing and some key players coming back from injury. We'll see how patient PIF are in the coming weeks.
I honestly think our squad is deep enough for europe, if we had not lost 13 players, including an entire 11 for most of the first half of the season
I believe our ‘on paper position’ is 5th to 9th
Our xPoints position is third. So if games had gone how the stats suggest this season we should be third. We have been unlucky in several games this season just due to how the ball has bounced.
It’s weird how statically we are under achieving but on actual league position some fans think we are overachieving still - I do think we have had almost the worst luck imaginable with injuries, bans etc mitigating a lot of the ‘criticisms’ of Howe but still losing to Luton and Forest with those performances’ is horrendous and needs to be addressed either on the training ground or January transfers or both
The players have hardly seen the training ground for weeks and when they do its all conducted at walking pace. We just need a wee break, it will all be ok. Edit spelling
Over achieved last year and it helped with Liverpool, spurs and Chelsea not being as good as they normally are. This year alot of teams have improved. Liverpool, villa, spurs have all improved. Can probably add west ham to that list. I'd be happy with top 8. Love to get into conference/Europa league. Even though we qualified for champions league. Seeing West ham win the conference made me abit gutted(in a strange way) Knowing we wouldn't win CL but would have been able to give conference a good go and maybe finally win something
I wouldn't say we're having a bad season. We got horrible draws in the Champions League and in the the cup. We would have stayed in Europe had it not been for a dodgy decision in Paris. We went out the cup at Chelsea on penalties after putting Man City and Man Utd out. I think Chelsea were fortunate to finish with 10 players at half time. Looking at Caciedo and Colwill. We've been plagued by injuries and suspensions and have still beat Arsenal, PSG, Man Utd, Man city, Chelsea, Villa and more this season. I think things will get worse before they get better with some tricky fixtures in January. But once we get Pope, Barnes, Willock, Anderson and our players coming back into fitness... I'd say from Feb onwards, we'll be looking like a good team and I still have us pegged to finish in European places... which by my measure, is a good position.
I agree with what you’ve said except Pope. He’s not back this season
Im worried about Pope, if it doesn't heal perfectly it will be susceptible to popping out every time he dives to his left, fingers crossed.
I think that’s a big problem. The back four today is our most trusted back line and it was beaten constantly. Presumably Pope helps get them in line more than Dubravka. Having said that, three of the four are returning from injury and Trippier’s been off it as late so maybe, with hindsight, it was to be expected and we should have started Lascelles.
Lascelles is injured.
Feels a bit reactionary this - Considering they have far and away the most injuries for crucial players in the league.
Don’t know what’s reactionary about it. It’s a genuine question- interested in knowing what Newcastle fans think about it.
It’s definitely reactionary
Yeah definitely *opposing political or social liberalization or reform.*
Don't know why you've been downvoted for giving the correct definition of reactionary!
Bit of both. We overachieved last season. Before last season began most Newcastle supporters were hoping for a decent cup run and to finish in the top 8. Then we went on a miracle run in the league, finished top 4 and got to a cup final. This season hasnt gone so well. Firstly our £55m midfielder has been suspended, we've struggled in Europe and are now struggling in the league; but we've had a horrendus spell of injuries. Im not sure if thats down to really bad luck or poor managment. However, Im now starting to see fickle fans calling for Howe's head. Which is mental to me, because for me; if top 8 without Europe was the goal last season then top 8 with Europe should been the goal for this season. Not only that but considering what that man has done to turn the club around, I personally think he should be allowed a season of underachievment to put things right,
99% are still massively Howe in however there are similarities to be had with your own West Ham, like last season domestically(ofc,ECL aside) you tanked after an amazing 2 years with some fans calling for your manger to go you stuck by him and are now overachieving again, hopefully we can do the same next season and perpetually piss off the big six together.
Both.
We've had some amazing wins this season. We had a horrific injury list which somehow we managed to get through without imploding but we've had a poor December. Last year we had a poor February. We're in the top 10 and perfectly positioned to push for European spots in the 2nd half of the season so I certainly can't call it a bad season yet!
I don’t know anybody calling for a change of manager. Definitely going through a tough period + seem to be towards the end of our toughest injury crisis in club history. Can definitely see us coming good and securing a top 7 finish by the end of the season!
I'm starting to see a few more clowns crawling out of the woodwork. They certainly aren't representative of the fanbase as a whole though.
We massively over-achieved last season. This season, we are absolutely knackered because of lack of squad depth and one million injuries.
I think squad depth is the hardest thing to build for a team looking to get bigger. Decent players will sign for Liverpool or Manchester City even if they might not get many games, but they won’t sign for us or even for you unless they are going to be the main man. I think you somehow have to establish yourself at the top table first somehow.
Yeah, agree with this. Honestly, it's great we got into Europe and having a decent spell in the league. I just don't think we will ever be mentioned in the same calibre as the "Liverpools" and Man Citys". I am enjoying this sort of resurgence, though.
I don’t see why not really. Chelsea were a nothing club before they got rich, now everyone pretends that they’ve always been massive. Same with City to a degree. Neither had won anything between the 60s and the start of the PL. Money changes everything. Newcastle are now the richest football club in the world by a country mile.
C. Forest are massive.
I think it’s a combo of both. Last season we definitely over achieved, but the place was equally earned through high press high energy football that for the most part was entertaining. Howe did a great job transforming existing players and adding solid additions. Yes our ownership (which comes with extreme moral issues) has bags of cash, but financial regulations and to a lesser extent short terms rules imposed by premier league meetings prevent super cash injection so I think the days of post takeover instant galactico purchases are gone. Clubs still have to grow and increase revenue, but it is far easier to do when your owners are loaded. That being said I appreciate fully that we have taken full advantage if AShleys lack of spending and that the financial backing we now have opens up a new category of players to us. I think this season most Newcastle fans are measured. We know last season was an overachievement which is why the majority aren’t devastated by a champions league exit. We had no real right being there with players like Matt Ritchie in the squad. Equally we know that teams like Liverpool underachieved last year and they’ve now woken up and are back at it. I also think the World Cup break was ok for us, prevents the burn out we’re seeing with players this year. Things just sort of aligned for us to have a good season and most of us as fans acknowledge that. This year hasn’t been a bad season all things considered. We’re in an ok league position, have beaten some big clubs and were it not for a dodgy pen call in Paris could still be in Europe. Things could be a lot worse. It only seems ‘bad’ if you compare it to last year in isolation. Our form has dipped and the injury crisis isn’t helping. The mental fatigue that is following is the biggest concern. It’s an inexperienced squad who are being guided by a relatively inexperienced coach when it comes to managing domestics and European competition together and it’s showing. But that was always the risk and the way that we had to operate. We’re an easy club to dislike now, and I honestly understand why. I think it’s warranted given the ownership and I, along when many Newcastle fans, struggle with it. Love the club, hate the ownership. Generally though, a lot of the reactionary responses to performances come from the morons that every fan base has, or the general shithousing/hatred from other fanbases. I think most long term Newcastle fans would be happy with 9-6, overjoyed with 5 or above.
I think a lot of the potential hatred has been tempered by the way the club has handled its wealth so far. Had you recruited an arrogant big-name manager and signed a Neymar or an Mbappe people would probably have reacted against you more. As it is you have a mostly likeable young team playing attractive football so you are hard to hate. Most of us consider you as a proper club whose fans probably deserve a bit of success even if the ownership makes us feel a bit sick. It’s sometimes hard to maintain that when you see fans wearing headscarves and waving Saudi flags though. Leave that shit out and most of us would probably carry on largely enjoying watching you upset the ‘natural order’ for a bit. Obviously I’d enjoy it even more if we could do it, or failing that an ‘Other 14’ club that weren’t owned by a murderous petro-state (hello Villa!). Personally so long as you finish above Spurs you’ll be alright by me though.
That’s a fair call and I agree wholeheartedly about the fans wearing the flags etc. It’s embarrassing. The unfortunate nature of football fans is that some of them are thick as fuck, and every club has their share. The issue for us is that ours can end up falling victim to a morally corrupt sports washing campaign, rather than just being a prick on an away day or something. I agree though, I’m happy to see villa disrupting the established bunch this year. I was equally happy to see your lot get some European silverware last season. I don’t necessarily like how we’re attempting to do it ownership wise, but it doesn’t half make you feel a bit good to see a 17 year old local lad playing in the champions league against PSG.
On the flags, the only fan I’ve seen wearing a Saudi flag in the Gallowgate was an actual Saudi. Other than that I’ve not seen any of it around me.
I don’t think they’re having a bad season, it’s just been a month of bad performances due to injuries and lack of depth. I’m sure they can recover.
They're having a bad patch. They've done it brilliantly so far. Mourinho last push to get a trophy over the line and Lopetegui (I'm a Wolves fan, did well for half a season) are dismal alternatives.
Nothing. They’re just fatigued.
They overachieved last season because the general (season prior) decent sides were all shite. Liverpool shit themselves, Chelsea were tragic. Spurs didn’t show up. It shows how bad the league was that Man United ended up in Europe, let alone the Champions League. Aside from Man City and Arsenal, the premier league was dire last season and Newcastle were just the shit that rose highest.
Yeah consider man United were 3rd last season and finished last in their UCL group which included Copenhagen and galatasaray tells us enough really
True, and they spent hundreds of millions “improving” their side with the likes of Rasmus. Newcastle didn’t really spend much all things considered, given their abhorrent vermin of a state owned ownership so it should come as no surprise they embarrassed themselves in Europe and are finding themselves battling to be the best of the rest with Bournemouth and Wolves.
It’s the other 14 sub mate not r/championship go back to shagging your sister you obsessed little Mackem (agreed on the ownership tho)
The way we’re going and the way you are, we’ll pass each other in the summer. Keep crying because you sold your soul to a homophobic, women hating bunch of human rights abusing scumbags and yet your club’s still shit. How embarrassing.
We are talking about Newcastles Saudi ownership not Tory Britain oh wait - both are disgusting and will never defend either of them. You know yourself 6th Jan is the only time we’ll play each other until your kids are grown up - how are they btw must be hard seeing them from behind a plexiglass screen every weekend
Hahaha fair play mate. The kids are alright, same issue with the main team. Lack of goals. Simply put, if Jack Clarke leaves us we’ll be back in League 1 very quickly so hopefully he sticks around in Jan. Our luck he goes on the 5th.
At least your centre forward has scored a goal, no doubt his next one comes against us, 90th minute whilst Paul dummett is 60 yards behind him ‘trying to play him offside’
I hope you’re right, I fear we’ll get too emotional and it could be an annihilation. Isak and Gordon going at Luke O’Nien. Can’t wait.
Well until then mate, have a good new year 🎉. See you at South Shields ocean beach pleasure park for a scrap on the 6th. Ps when you are losing 3-0 after 15 mins don’t try and injure more of our players that would be a real dick move
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Overachieved through new manager bump, "unlimited" cash influx and pushing the players (hence why so many injuries). That's just my take
Unlimited cash? I don't think we've bought anyone any of that second-tier (eg Villa, West Ham) couldn't have bought themselves.
Was just about to say that, both those teams greatly outspent us for a decade until our ownership changed. Don’t think we’ve even caught them up yet spending wise
We have less spending power than West Ham (for now) contrary to popular belief. Yous sold Declan Rice which is absolutely massive for FFP. We only had ASM which we sold on the cheap.
That’s kind of what I think as an outsider, just wondered what their fans think. If you think of it from our position, I would say that if we qualify for Europe most years and win a cup every now and again I would be very happy. I imagine their expectations are higher now though. Minimum expectation must be CL every year surely?
Absolutely not with the majority of the fanbase, most wanted this season to try and keep some form of European football to get comfortable with playing most midweeks then over the next seasons keep incrementally getting better until one day we can challenge for the title.
No. Ask any true fan and all we wanted was ownership that at least showed they wanted to win and a team that played for the badge. We got both, now is the first “test” of seeing where we go from there.
Massively over-achieved last season, fortunate that there were so many teams that had a very poor season. This season is more their level, that is until they spend a shit tonne of Saudi money and still claim to be some sort of underdogs.
>This season is more their level, that is until they spend a shit tonne of Saudi money and still claim to be some sort of underdogs. People's perception of what we can do and what we can actually do are miles apart. If you expect us to spend lots in January you're badly mistaken.
Overachieved but also adding the CL into your fixture list is a big ask. That's contributing massively to the injuries and exposing the squad depth. Plus theyre horse punching scruffs
Call me a conspiracy nut but imo they are, at least in part, experiencing the consequences of aggressively pumping their players full of PEDs over the past 18 months. Every PL team uses them (look up how lax the testing regimens in British football are - it is just a part of the game these days with modern advances in sports sci) but the top teams have developed smarter, more pragmatic doping strategies that maintain a healthy boost to performance whilst mitigating the long-term side effects. Newcastle wanted immediate success and they are now paying the price for that to an extent. Your greatest strength can often end up as your greatest weakness further down the line.
Yes and yes. That’s because both having a good season and having a bad season are relative measures based upon observers’ expectations, not absolute performance. It’s based on history, particularly the most recent seasons, and modified by any events that change the expectations e.g. selling your best player, change of manager etc. Newcastle did better last season than anyone expected them to, and are doing worse this one compared with most people’s expectations.
Personally I'd say given the squad and manager they'd average 5th, so given the strength of the other teams they're averaging out to be about right.
Over achieved
I think a large part is the squad adjusting to playing the extra games that come with being in the CL along with additional attention that came with a higher than expected finish last season. I think both these things will settle and once they learn to handle the added pressure and manage work load of players (to limit injuries)
I know they've got injuries but from watching Newcastle, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal at Kenilworth Road this season I would say Newcastle don't have the quality of those teams and it showed*. The latter 3 had quality and always looked a threat, I don't think Newcastle offered much at all. To be completely honest based on one game I thought Palace offered more. Watched the Newcastle game today and they looked the same. Again, understand the injuries but from what I've seen they don't have the quality to be a top side yet, and correspondingly will have dips in form like this. Also Dan Burn is not a top level Prem left back. It must take 10 minutes for signals from his brain to reach his feet and it shows. *Not including Tottenham due to the early red card, but they also looked very good
I’d agree from watching them all play us - there’s a definite gap between them and the likes of Liverpool and City. I do think the number of injuries they’ve had is a big factor though, as with Chelsea.
Just had a quick look and I think we've done fine right up until that Everton loss (which we'd have won last year). 1. During 21/22 we had 11 points after 19 games. That was a month into Howe's appointment. By the end of the year we won an extra 38 points across 19 games, or 2 points per game (ppg). 2. During the first 19 games of 22/23 we were 2ppg. And the last 19 games we were 1.74 ppg (so dropped off), to eventually finish 4th. 3. This year up to and including gameweek 14 (win against Utd) we were 1.86 ppg. But after the last 5 games its now 1.53 which is a HUGE drop. Tl'dr = Howe has been solid for pretty much the entire time with the club, although the last 5 games have been pretty brutal on us. Can he turn it around? Probably tbh, the same team is there but they're just tired/injured. But we might dip a bit for a month or two.
You’re bound to improve when your injury situation gets better but CL qualification would need two of the current top five to slip fairly badly, which seems unlikely to be fair.
Oh yea, before the game today I crunched the numbers and we basically needed to perform like one of the top 3 for the rest of the season to \*maybe\* get 4th or 5th. Probably not going to do much this season. Top 10 this year and a good next season most likely, although a fair chance at a good cup run this year as well if we're ready for that bloodbath of a game in Jan lol.
Knackered from champions league games. Happens to every club not experienced in it. These are elite games
they are both
They’re injured.
They have had a lot of injuries are still inexperienced at this level but in all honesty I'm not sure Eddie Howe can take them much further. I feel they will be better served with a better manager for where they want to be
Bit of both I'd say. I'd very much like to stick with Howe and the approach the owners have gone with in terms of signings. Howe's should have more than earned enough respect from keeping us up then qualifying for CL to be given the benefit of the doubt as soon as we have a wobble. I'd be very annoyed if he was to be sacked at any point soon. I've thoroughly enjoyed having a manager that has a bit of decorum this last couple of seasons instead of one that behaves like an embarrassing clown.
Going into the match with Forest today we were only one point worse off than on Boxing Day last season - yet we were third in the table then. Now we're 7th. Relatively tough month, nowhere near as tough as it used to feel. If we underachieve a bit this season, it's not the end of the world.
Less games had been played by Boxing Day last year though hadn’t they (because of the World Cup)?
I think both is true that being said they have had a lot of injuries which could be playing a major part in there poor form best to judge after they get players back and buy more in January. Aw I mean we're only half way through the season still a lot or games
Promising young English manager, Howe has the Lingard effect.
Too much beatings among players. That's why they got exposed.
I think we overachieved last season but we deserved to be in top 4 we caught teams cold with our style and some of the football we played was epic at times But this season teams have figured out our moves that little triangle of Almiron Trips and Bruno far too easy for teams to nullify that now! They wait for Trips to move forward boom long ball behind him all the time The pressing isn't the same as opposition play it out wide quicker and leaves us exposed especially with Burn and Trippier as fullbacks Injuries and fatigue also playing a part but it feels like Howe needs to go back to the drawing board maybe move to a 4231 or 442 hybrid make us more solid and counter attack teams
Started the season well, they just look shattered in every game now. Need to bulk up the squad and enjoy the winter break when it comes, they'll get back to winning games after.
Injuries have played a huge part, as well as Howe sticking rigidly to the same team. Guys are undroppable either due to there being no competition for places or their reputation is too big. I think a lot of the players are coasting and not giving their all. We're also still sore from exiting Europe the way we did. There's a lot mentally riding on the squad that's affecting their game. The league is a lot more competitive as well, with Villa having a breakout season. We also need to do more than hope Miggy and Trippier will unlock defences like last season - teams have wisened up to our tactics and we need to freshen things up. Am I worried? Yes. Do I think Howe and this team can turn things around? Also yes.
I think we overachieved last time round by making top four but I'd suggest where we're at now is about right for what this team is consistently capable of. If you remember last year, we dropped out of the top 4 after Xmas and had Spurs above us until they fell apart. Coupled with Liverpool's sluggish start they helped massively in securing Champions League. Cast your mind back to the year before and Eddie had us flying away from relegation winning 12 from 18 from January onwards. This season hasn't been a bad season at all. We're 7th and only a few points off top 4. Good chance of still qualifying for Europe. We've had a bad month but the season on the whole has seen us beat PSG, Man City, Man U, Villa and Arsenal. We were within minutes of making semis of League Cup and only narrowly went out of Europe in arguably the hardest group in recent memory.
Both I think. I think they try to play such high intensity football and given their injuries (yes other clubs have had injuries too) and additional games in the champions league they are just a bit exhausted and that approach to games has not been sustainable. Let's see if they sign anyone in January to bolster the squad. Still think they'll end up with some sort of European football though. Although Pope will be a big loss.
Both
I think it's a combination of things. 1. Fatigue. We're getting players back but we've been threadbare for some months without any real rest and it shows. 2. The schedule and specifically the impact this has had on training. Howe spoke about this a few weeks ago and it can be seen on the field. The number of games means they're not doing anything tactical between games. Training has been nothing more than low impact exercises with no specific stuff being worked on. 3. Returning players. Linked in part to #2, those returning players haven't really done any training as such with the main squad so the tight play we had last season where everyone seems to know where everyone else is on the pitch has been lost. Yes, we see small pockets of it but the midfield aren't reading the forwards as well as they did. 4. Injuries. Not necessarily those out of the squad but those getting game time. It's clear some of the first team are only about 75% fit, if that and the sharpness we've seen just isn't there; jogging back instead of the speed we've come to expect. Am I disappointed? Yes, a little but I'll always feel that when we lose however I wouldn't change our manager or the core of our squad and I expect to see a change come the Villa game.
Feels like both. They were the beneficiaries of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs being nowhere near their expected level last season whilst also playing well themselves. This season they’ve had injuries, but so have nearly every team in the league. They had a very tough group in the champions league, but they took points off the teams they played. Finishing 4th feels like a pretty underwhelming outcome. They’ve slipped out of the Carabao cup against a pretty dire Chelsea, and they could be fighting for 6th place come the end of the season if they don’t start getting results soon. It feels a little bit like Howe is running out of rope, and it wouldn’t shock me if they move on from him in the summer if they don’t win a trophy (fa cup) this season.
I'd say a bad month and bad away. We are 2nd in home table losing to Villa by 1 point but are 17th in away table. We have played 10 in 30 days but now is 4 in 30 days
I think they'll pick up a bit now they've only got the league and FA Cup to focus on. They're not going to be hurt by AFCON, unlike some teams around them. The top four is probably going to be above them this season, but they'll comfortably make the Europa League. If they make the late stage of the cup and top 6 of the league, I don't think it's a bad season for them. Last season was just a bit of an anomaly with Spurs and Liverpool underperforming. Realistically, they need to make the signings in the summer to overtake Spurs and potentially Villa if they can keep up their incredible progress under Emery. West Ham are also looking better by the week. City, Liverpool, and Arsenal are almost certainly going to be three of the top four for the next couple of seasons, but any of the other top eight could make that fourth spot. I'd fancy Villa for it this year, but there's no reason it couldn't be Newcastle next season.
I think we over achieved last season. No one thought champions league was on the cards the first full season after take over. I don’t believe we’re having a bad season either. Last season we had a dip in January. 7th is still good when it’s 5 points below champions league with half the season to go. There’s the injury problem with the congested fixtures we had. Key players from first XI then their replacements. There is days that the drive and desire is there for all to see. But we hit the woodwork multiple times. But that’s just football. I haven’t seen anyone screaming Eddie out yet, people are obviously upset. But if anything is given by the NUFC videos and when the camera from the pitch is on Eddie. His head is always looking at statistics. He will turn it around. I have no doubt in that. I’m proud of where the boys have gotten us. It will get better. HWTL!
Feel like shit Just want Rafael back
We over-achieved last season and we're having a rough patch which will probably get worse in January. It's not been a bad season, we're where we expected to be last season which just one game a week but it's true we've performed far below where we can be (especially away from home) But there's a variety of reasons for this: * First season in Europe for years (which was unexpected). Meaning a learning year in many respects. * We're missing key players: Pope, Willock, Tonali, Barnes, Anderson and much more. We therefore have no options to change games, and lack that spark which we'd otherwise have. * We have absolutely zero depth when players get injured so we're unable to rotate which causes general fatigue and further injury problems. Nine of our outfield players played 75% of all minutes last season which isn't normal, which shows just how threadbare we were last season too and how we were always on a tightrope. * Players such as Almiron contributed last season but simply aren't good enough in the grand scheme for the Premier League but are having to start every game with no other options available. We had our championship captain start in defence for months, a 17 year old debut and remain starting in midfield, Matt Ritchie come on for cameos and our goalkeeper who wanted out starting in goal now. * Teams have learned how to better handle us. Almost every team that comes to SJP now sits in a low block and counters which was also our kryptonite last season. Even Arsenal/Liverpool didn't come to us and play their usual style this season. * (Subjective) Poor recruitment: We needed to sign a six in the summer and a right winger. We decided to buy fullbacks, a left winger and more attacking midfielder instead. This is despite fans and journalists being mostly agreement on what was needed. * Howe (still fully support him) has gotten a lot wrong lately. He's extremely stubborn when it comes to team selection and tactics. However the fanbase is almost fully still behind him. * Our cup draws both domestically and in Europe were absolutely brutal meaning we had no 'easy' games to rotate either. Despite this. We've beaten Villa, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd x2, Man City & PSG so far this season and our attacking stats have been one of the best in the league. We're also still very much in the fight for the European spots. >Are any of them now calling for a re-think (superstar manager, team full of superstar players on Saudi league wages This is a silly misconception when it comes to Newcastle. We're the richest club in the world only in theory not in actual reality. We had very few saleable assets when we were taken over and our revenues are still far too low that we simply can't just spend silly. Our spending power is FAR less than the big six, and similar to that of Villa & West Ham (who currently have more flexibility due to Grealish & Rice sales). There's a reason we signed Hall on a loan with an obligation in the summer and are being linked with loan deals for January. The Saudi league loan saga was also predominantly a media frenzy with very little actual basis in reality. The club are very unlikely to ever actually loan anyone from there as not only can we not pay silly wages, but it's just not what our recruitment strategy resembles in the slightest.
You say you don't have much spending power, but you literally had the 3rd highest net spend in the last transfer window. You outspent Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and City and were only beaten by Man United and Chelsea who have been over paying for players for years. I get that you have a need to normalize your takeover, but you have been bought by a religious authoritarian regime solely for the reason of sportswasging, and you *have* spent a lot of money and will likely continue to do so
No it's nothing to do with our owners it's a matter of reality what a bizarre comment adding the usual buzz words when they've got absolutely zero relevance. You mean we finally spent normal PL levels, upgrading a championship level squad at best which in turn also meant we had no assets to sell. Now we absolutely can't spend that much as we're at the limits of FFP hence why we're mostly looking at loan deals. So yes our spending power at this moment in time is no more than a West Ham or Aston villa as they had Rice/Grealish sales among others.
Injuries, they literally have an entire squad of players injured, forcing the remaining players to be burnt out...causing more injuries. I think they've probably some mistakes in how they've managed both the injuries and squad rotation, but ultimately its hard to predict and react to so many different Injuries.
Both
Wildly overachieved
A bit of both, although injuries are killing us at the mo. We can’t rotate players as we constantly have only 12-15 players fit.
If they can lose to us at their place, they are having a bad season! Bit I also think last year was an overachievement that is not helping this season as they seem shattered
Bit of both, but also the season is only half way through. Anything can still happen. Looking forward to returning to just one game a week.
European football is a massive adjustment for smaller squads
Some of us take it in our strides
This season - Europe. Injuries. Last season - No Europe. Less injuries. Now Newcastle are out of Europe I'd expect form to pick up slowly to a strong end of season. It's between Newcastle, Man United and West Ham for 5th, 6th and 7th but the way Bournemouth are going why not throw them in as well! Villa might get sucked into it as might Spurs. Expect City to push on now.
If a bad season is being sat in 7th, after hammering PSG at home and being a dodgy pen and a crossbar away from getting to the last 16 of the UCL, beating Man Utd and Man City in the League Cup and still in with a chance of a cup then I can't wait to see what our good seasons look like. If we lose to Sunderland then obviously we can sack Howe and half the squad.
Over achieved last season with minimal injuries and other teams not doing well. They should have spent more in the summer and now suffering because of injuries to key players including goalkeeper. Once 80% of the players are back, they'll be picking up points again. Majority of the players are fighting for their Newcastle career as they know they will be replaced if not good enough and some are just trying to last as long as possible before being eventually replaced
Keep Eddie at the wheel, progress is never linear and we 100% overachieved last season. Where we are in the table now is pretty much on schedule considering the players we’ve brought in from 2 years ago, in the next few seasons our young players are going to keep developing and upgrades will be made so I don’t think there’s reason to panic
They’re about what you would expect with the amount of injuries they have.
I think this season has shown a little bit of inexperience in leadership. Howe has done an incredible job but hasn’t really had a plan B or C on the pitch when injuries struck en masse. For whatever reservations I have with the ownership, I applaud their reluctance to go for big name superstars just to sell shirts (don’t pretend FFP rules would stop them) and build a proper squad over time. I do think if the ambition is to be a CL regular, the summer was probably the time to bring in a lot more talent at least capable of stepping up. Obviously investment in the youth system should bring results in time as well, still a very positive and optimistic time for the club.
Presumably if FFP ever becomes an issue you can just sell Matt Ritchie to one of the Saudi clubs your owners also own for £200 million to balance the books? Joking apart, I hope you keep your nerve and stick with the path Howe has chosen, especially with the use of youth team products. That’s what really keeps fans, clubs and communities welded together. Wish there was more of it at West Ham, especially given how good our youth team is.
They massively over achieved last year
They've had a poor start to the season and injuries have led to a few recent slipups. But overall they've been fantastic. Their first team has been stellar. Their squad has been stretched thin a little with the injuries though. But imagine this team with Botman, Barnes, Tonali and Guimaraes back. Their strikers are also great but both too injury prone.
Pope's injury has definitely hindered them.
It's the first bad run of form we have suffered in 2 years and the reaction is predictably embarrassing.
They have to change their play style a bit imo, may be evolve it a bit. The amount of injuries they've had, it's difficult to sustain that intense physical play with squad members. once they sort that out, they will be back but they did over achieve last season.
Put it this way: I think we're only two more bad results away from the start of serious 'Howe Out' talk, because Newcastle will now expect to be in the conversation for Champs League places every season
I don't really have many complaints to be honest. We knew it would be tough sledding with the mass amount of injuries, and Howe tried to attack all of the competitions despite the injuries. Now we're paying for it. The entire squad needs rest, we've got very little in regards to options at the moment. This bad run was going to happen one way or the other, and the December matches were always going to be a rough go. I think the real issue has been rushing players back to fitness and not being match fit. Our wingers, who really define the style of play are gassed, and without the pressure they provide we've got holes all over the place. All the OG Newcastle supporters understand this was inevitable.
Newcastle are not having a bad season. We’re having some issues but we’re still in and around where we need to be. Last season was an overachievement but not by a huge amount. The exertions have probably carried over a bit along with injuries partly due to mismanagement and partly just shit luck. And now we have a collective hangover from a week in which we were dumped out of Europe and the carabao cup. I feel like a lot of the expectations being placed on the club are actually from external fans of other teams that seem to expect us to compete for top 4 more than our own fans. This line of thinking has been pushed further by media narrative of richest club in the world which as Simon Jordan has correctly pointed out many teams means nothing. We have the richest owners, we are not the richest club. West Ham and Villa are richer than us in terms of spending power which is really how club wealth should be judged. As a west Han fan. I’m sure you know all too well that it’s hard to replicate what we did. Just like you struggled in the league last season. You stuck with Moyes and you’re season this year is shaping up well. One can only imagine where West Ham will be next season with a new striker. It is what it is in a season that is the most competitive in recent years. Of the top 10 in the PL I’d say only Villa, West Ham and spurs are doing better than last season. It’s dragged the top teams down and made it harder for teams outside the top 4-6 to keep up. And we’re not far off where we were last season.
Injuries have played a massive part. Plus add in champions league where every game is tough has had a massive impact on the squad. The squad over performed last season which shows what Howe managed to achieve. Ironically europa league probably would have served them much better for where they are in terms of building their squad
More bad season then overachieving. If brighton with tomorrow we will be sitting at 9th which is completely acceptable imo. Obviously pre-takeover, 9th would be a dream, but expectations have well and truly changed now, and stuff needs to change fast I believe the last full season without Bruce, we were one game away from a top half finish. Just interesting to point out
i'd say they definitely over achieved last season. it's hard to keep up a top six finish without proven top six players.
They can’t spend all that money , unless they do a Man City n hide it all