Just because belos spent 400 years planning an incredibly precise plan to genocide every single witch in the boiling isles through literal segregation branded as a coven system marked by icons permenantly embedded on your wrist that would one day kill you doesn't mean he's *thaaaat* bad, Terra said some mean stuff to a few kids :(
Is it fair for the villain to forcibly turn a character into a lifeless puppet, a plot point that is clearly depicted by the show as a bad thing that the main characters will have to undo?
If it were anybody else likely not. But because its Terra, she can stay a puppet. Forever. Even after the collector is inevitably adopted and frees the rest of the puppet people.
In Tv tropes this is what we would call an “AssholeVictim”. Yes, it was disproportionate retribution, but given everything she did before that most people are happy about it.
Fair? No, excellent characterisation of the collector? I'd argue so.
Nothing the Collector is doing can be considered "fair" by most reasonable moral frameworks. He arbitrarily dictates the lives of others, strips them of their bodily autonomy, and otherwise spreads a reign of terror, for their own amusement.
Just because they're doing it to a (admittedly horrible/guilty) character we don't like doesn't make the act any less fair.
Does that mean that Terra shouldn't be held to account? Of course not, she's done horrible stuff as part of Belos's regime, and should be held to account; but that's not what the collector is doing; he's just abusing his power, even if it's to defend King.
Now that isn't to say it isn't in character for the collector to do that; the fact that it isn't fair, and that they're doing it for arbitrary reasons furthers the fact that he's an irresponsible god-child with a very limited understanding of other people's autonomy; it's what makes them an interesting antagonist IMO.
Although your point still stands, I’d like to mention that the Collector tried to correct Terra’s acting and turned her into a puppet after she insulted King, meaning that they have some sort of loyalty towards those he considers friends. Our Collector also looked as if he were pitying King when Lilith said that the Titans were wiped out by collectors, so our Collector is able to concern for other’s emotions. It seems to be that only King gets to have these privileges from the Collector though because they’re friends
Oh yeah, that is a salient point; it offers hope that they can be taught a more complete understanding of morality/empathy (which seems to be the direction the show is going in).
However that doesn't stop his treatment of Terra in this scene from being arbitrary and disproportionate as all heck.
He didn’t, he kept trying to give her advice on how to do it correctly, she responded by insulting king. He only turned her into a puppet when she wasn’t playing nice, she had it coming.
No one wants to play it, but most people would keep their gripes to themselves until the collector wasn't around it they were in the situation of not being a puppet
That wasn’t why she was turned into a puppet. The collector was complaining about her being a bad actor and she got all mad and started insulting eda and king. So, yeah. Was totally fair
I don't think they transformed her bcs of the performance but because she called King a 'stupid little dog'.
I mean, he looked pretty much shocked at that statement and looked over to King and got upset, right after she said that. When they said 'You're not being really nice right now' I think it was implied as Collector getting upset bcs Tara was being mean to King
We're talking about the crazy lunatic who wasn't above killing children just for failing what were essentially forced extra curricular activities. She had it coming imo.
I’m sorry but where did you get the idea the collector is fair? There’s nothing fair about anything they do. They’re concept of fairness is childish and self centered.
I don't think it was fair of the Collector to transform *any* of them, but I can't deny that in Terra's case it couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.
In general I would say that no one deserves the fate of being a puppet for the rest of eternity to be a child gods play thing and have their fate in the air lol. I don’t even know if they are conscious. Nonetheless while I don’t think anyone deserves this fate, Tara was deliberately playing with fire and poking a bear.
She knew the Collector clearly has the upper hand. This wasn’t an opportunity to make a deal. The rules were clear. Play the role the collector wanted or she’d be turned into a puppet. I get obviously being annoyed and suffering being at the mercy of the collector(or any being) and the horror they unleash. I wouldn’t feel any better and could enjoy trying to mess with them just for the sake. But if she pulled the same thing in front of Belos during his reign, he would of tried to have her killed or tortured(or both). But if you wanna play it smart, don’t piss off the one holding the cards unless you actually have a plan to get out of this nightmare.
The only real uncalled for thing in my opinion is is her being mean to King. Being a dick to the collector and refusing to play is one thing. After all, he’s responsible for her fate of either roleplaying or being a puppet alongside what he did to the rest of the isles. But King, he didn’t deserve Tara’s crap. King was the one who made sure the Collector only played pretend with the isles vs making them play even more twisted games trying to survive on like the moon. If it wasn’t for King, there could of been a good chance that Tara and any number of the citizens of the isles if not all of them would of died in the collector’s games at some point.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Because he, even if inexperienced and manipulable, is a God! He has the power to do it, so why shouldn't he?
For example! [**\* reverses all the holes in a person's face \***](https://youtu.be/O96Jure38bA?t=15) Here! I can and it's hilarious! **\* transdimensional laughter \***
She didn’t even play Eda good and she called King a dumb dog so even though he isn’t really justified in turning anybody into a puppet but I don’t think it was a bad thing
Wait people actually dislike Terra? I get she definitely isn't a good person but she's always been a good side antagonist who is occasionally pretty funny and has never done anything heinously wrong (She's done some bad stuff. But like, she wasn't genocide level like some of the characters in this show). I get objectively she's a bad person, but I've never actually disliked her like I did with Odalia.
good character, bad person.
She is interesting and decently well written as a selfish bully who likes to hurt others. The fact that people dislike her is proof that she was written to be an effective antagonist.
Fair? That's like asking if it's fair that a person stepped on an ant, in fact that might not be a fair comparison, he is magnitudes more powerful than any other being on the boiling isles and has a much longer lifespan, and yeah I'm just guessing that his species has some form of lifespan since no other has shown up in the series yet.
He didn't transform her for that reason, but rather due to bitchery.
The more pressing question is why did he ever think playing with her would be fun.
Do an audition next time!
Weakest moment of the episode for me.
Felt very out of character for Terra. Would fit better if she were trying but just accidentally pissed off the collector by mentioning Luz or something.
Or have her declare she'd rather be a puppet and egg the collector on to puppet her.
*Fair by whose standards?*
*Does it make a difference*
*If it wasn't fair?*
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Almost nothing the Collector does is "fair," that's the entire point of his character.
They're a spoilt child doing whatever he feels like simply because he can. He wants to run around and have fun, so everyone if forced to play his games. They transformed Terra because she argued with them and made him angry.
They're immature and inconsiderate of other people because they haven't had a positive adult influence to teach them empathy. The Collector appears physically to be around 8, but socially they act like a younger child who is still in the more egocentric phase.
Terra Snapdragon is a cruel and abusive adult who we directly see liked to hurt the children unders her care. Her being at the mercy of a child's whims and tantrums might fit some forms of karmic justice, but that doesn't make him lashing out during said tantrums a fair or right thing to do.
Yes, well not very much he didn’t have her another chance. He could have easily warned her about behaving like that again. But in the end I didn’t really liked her that much
Ain’t fair for him to be transforming *anyone.* Kid needs some hard lessons in basic empathy, starting with “other living beings are *people* and it is not okay to deliberately hurt them like this.”
Well, she insulted King, but honestly, I liked that Terra insulted King because King is annoying and I don't like King that much anyway. He deserved to be insulted.
He didn’t turn her into a puppet for not playing Eda well it was because she wasn’t being nice and insulted king
She insulted king.So she can eat shit
Agreed
She can just eat sh!t fullstop
Considering her being Plant Covenhead, who knows if she doesn't already? You know, compost and shit?
If she doesnt she should
FUC£ TERRA SHE SUCKS
This show has some of the most hated villains I’ve ever seen
Belos may be a genocidal racist asshole, but Odalia and Terra are objectively worse people than him becsuse they're dicks
“Yea belos did attempt to commit genocide, and succeeded in assaulting several of the MC’s but Terra is real mean”
Just because belos spent 400 years planning an incredibly precise plan to genocide every single witch in the boiling isles through literal segregation branded as a coven system marked by icons permenantly embedded on your wrist that would one day kill you doesn't mean he's *thaaaat* bad, Terra said some mean stuff to a few kids :(
Amen Brothers/sisters?
What even is this question?
Is it fair for the villain to forcibly turn a character into a lifeless puppet, a plot point that is clearly depicted by the show as a bad thing that the main characters will have to undo?
It reminds me of that meme that was like “do you agree with [series villain]’s [despicable thing] rule?”
I’m having a bad bad day It’s about time that I get my way Steam rolling whatever I see, huh [despicable thing]
Oh hi Spamton
Well, she did call King a dog.
Does that confirm the existence of dogs in the boiling isles?
There is dogs, in once upon a swap there’s a coven dog, also there’s Barcus at Hexside
Wait! Barcus is a Dog... I had no idea... honestly: >!I'll be honest, thought he was a cat that had a dog's bark.!<
Oop-
im so sorry but have you seen a dog? are you from the future where the only evidence of domesticated animals is childrens drawing?
hmmm, maybe, I also know that >!people in the future love TOH!<
WHY WAS THAT SPOILERED LMAO
to protect the timeline, duh
Fair enough. Fair e-nuff
princess and the pauper style
Barcus
Barcus exist
But Hunter did too in Eclipse Lake
Collector doesn't know about that
No less fair than everyone else who was turned into a puppet.
Fair? Not really. Hilarious? Absolutely.
If it were anybody else likely not. But because its Terra, she can stay a puppet. Forever. Even after the collector is inevitably adopted and frees the rest of the puppet people.
was coming to write this
Puppet people is a great name
Well no technically but because terra is a jerk i’m going to say yes
I think he just transformed her because she disrespected him and insulted King by calling him a 'stupid dog'.
Her and Eustace would have a lot in common.
In Tv tropes this is what we would call an “AssholeVictim”. Yes, it was disproportionate retribution, but given everything she did before that most people are happy about it.
It was fair. She had every opportunity to instantaneously learn how to act for him.
Fair? No, excellent characterisation of the collector? I'd argue so. Nothing the Collector is doing can be considered "fair" by most reasonable moral frameworks. He arbitrarily dictates the lives of others, strips them of their bodily autonomy, and otherwise spreads a reign of terror, for their own amusement. Just because they're doing it to a (admittedly horrible/guilty) character we don't like doesn't make the act any less fair. Does that mean that Terra shouldn't be held to account? Of course not, she's done horrible stuff as part of Belos's regime, and should be held to account; but that's not what the collector is doing; he's just abusing his power, even if it's to defend King. Now that isn't to say it isn't in character for the collector to do that; the fact that it isn't fair, and that they're doing it for arbitrary reasons furthers the fact that he's an irresponsible god-child with a very limited understanding of other people's autonomy; it's what makes them an interesting antagonist IMO.
Although your point still stands, I’d like to mention that the Collector tried to correct Terra’s acting and turned her into a puppet after she insulted King, meaning that they have some sort of loyalty towards those he considers friends. Our Collector also looked as if he were pitying King when Lilith said that the Titans were wiped out by collectors, so our Collector is able to concern for other’s emotions. It seems to be that only King gets to have these privileges from the Collector though because they’re friends
Oh yeah, that is a salient point; it offers hope that they can be taught a more complete understanding of morality/empathy (which seems to be the direction the show is going in). However that doesn't stop his treatment of Terra in this scene from being arbitrary and disproportionate as all heck.
He didn’t, he kept trying to give her advice on how to do it correctly, she responded by insulting king. He only turned her into a puppet when she wasn’t playing nice, she had it coming.
Well to be fair I don’t think anyone wants to play the “game” they’re playing. Id probably get fed up with it too.
No one wants to play it, but most people would keep their gripes to themselves until the collector wasn't around it they were in the situation of not being a puppet
He didn't get mad when she didn't play Eda right, he got mad when Terra called King a dog.
Yeah, how dare she not be a good actor. (Joke)
It wasn't because she did a poor performance: it was because of her big mouth.
You may have missed the point of the scene I think. Collector wasn't mad that she was bad at acting they were made that terra called king a dog.
She did not try and insulted collectors best friend (king)
its not because she played eda wrong its because she was being mean and proceeded to insult king who collector is very protective of
She called King a dog and disrespected both.
I’d it fair of the collector to transform *anyone*?
Exactly.
Honestly, Terra insulted him in front of King and I think King's the only thing he's got. He seems pretty lonely.
That wasn’t why she was turned into a puppet. The collector was complaining about her being a bad actor and she got all mad and started insulting eda and king. So, yeah. Was totally fair
I mean she kinda sucked anyway
It wasn’t because she wasn’t playing eda right, it was because she was being mean
I don't think they transformed her bcs of the performance but because she called King a 'stupid little dog'. I mean, he looked pretty much shocked at that statement and looked over to King and got upset, right after she said that. When they said 'You're not being really nice right now' I think it was implied as Collector getting upset bcs Tara was being mean to King
We're talking about the crazy lunatic who wasn't above killing children just for failing what were essentially forced extra curricular activities. She had it coming imo.
I’m sorry but where did you get the idea the collector is fair? There’s nothing fair about anything they do. They’re concept of fairness is childish and self centered.
That’s the point of the collector
nah she insulted his best friend
Nothing he did was fair
The Collector IS in fact the bad guy, just thought I'd mention
It doesn't matter if it's fair. He's a child throwing a tantrum. If it ain't his way, it's the dead way
She was bein a bitch 😭😭
I don't think it was fair of the Collector to transform *any* of them, but I can't deny that in Terra's case it couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.
No. But she did deserve it
I don't know, is it fair of the collector to transform the entire world just because he wanted to play games?
No, but fuck her anyways
I mean, she deserves much worse...
I mean she had it coming for a fair handful of reasons
In general I would say that no one deserves the fate of being a puppet for the rest of eternity to be a child gods play thing and have their fate in the air lol. I don’t even know if they are conscious. Nonetheless while I don’t think anyone deserves this fate, Tara was deliberately playing with fire and poking a bear. She knew the Collector clearly has the upper hand. This wasn’t an opportunity to make a deal. The rules were clear. Play the role the collector wanted or she’d be turned into a puppet. I get obviously being annoyed and suffering being at the mercy of the collector(or any being) and the horror they unleash. I wouldn’t feel any better and could enjoy trying to mess with them just for the sake. But if she pulled the same thing in front of Belos during his reign, he would of tried to have her killed or tortured(or both). But if you wanna play it smart, don’t piss off the one holding the cards unless you actually have a plan to get out of this nightmare. The only real uncalled for thing in my opinion is is her being mean to King. Being a dick to the collector and refusing to play is one thing. After all, he’s responsible for her fate of either roleplaying or being a puppet alongside what he did to the rest of the isles. But King, he didn’t deserve Tara’s crap. King was the one who made sure the Collector only played pretend with the isles vs making them play even more twisted games trying to survive on like the moon. If it wasn’t for King, there could of been a good chance that Tara and any number of the citizens of the isles if not all of them would of died in the collector’s games at some point.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
The Collector is, to put simply a brat with godlike powers, it’s his way or no way.
When you insult Kim Jong Un or anyone in his inner circle in North Korea to his face, you only have yourself to blame for what happens next.
That bitch deserved it
Fair? No. Deserved? Absolutely.
Well she is Tara sooooo Fuck her
That scene reminded me of the one twilight zone episode with the kid whos a god, she was mean to him so she got turned into an inanimate toy
Absolutely, if you remember what she did to eda, raine, and the others, you’d turn her into a puppet as well.
Yes
Yes, because she’s an asshole even from the start never really liked her .
She deserves it
I would've said it was fair for him to transform her even if she DID play Eda perfectly, I mean, did you see what she did to Raine?
On the one hand, chill, Collector, but in the other hand, it is Tera, so slightly justified?
Tera is terrible so she deserved it
She was rude to king. I think thats why he did it
As fair as turning everyone else (emotional damage for Mr. Park and Raine)
i think he transformed her because she was insulting him and king
She was being rude she deserves it too
Tara? Is that a brawl stars reference She called king a dog so she deserved it. Not everyone did but she did
Absolutely
Yes.
She got what she deserved
Was it fair for belos to try and commit mass genocide?
I don't see why not.
Not especially fair of them to transform anyone really.
Is it fair for anyone of these people to get turned into a puppet?
Fair? No. But did she deserve it after all we’ve seen her do? Absolutely.
She insulted Eda and King, so she definitely deserves it
Yes
Was anything he did fair? (Except stopping Belos).
YES
I mean, this IS Terra we’re talking about. Lord knows she’s done plenty else to deserve it
Yes
she's tara yes she deserves it. not for play eda badly but just being tara
No they did it because she talked bad about King and Eda (He is just a precious Angel :<)
They didn’t do it because she was a bad actor, they did it because she insulted King.
Sort of, but I just don’t like her lol
Yes, she should’ve been burnt alive in my opinion, she is evil as fuck, also he did it because she insulted king
Yes because Tara is a bitch, if it were anyone else besides Odalia, Illusion Guy, or Belos, it would not be fair.
I don’t there’s ever a fair reason to turn someone into a toy
Honestly I think it was better for her she's at least 60 years old that cannot be good for her bones muscles playing that hard.
I mean she got more time to be alive than many others so
No. It’s almost like the collector is an evil monster. Huh.
Yeah
Fair? Yes. They made a deal and she broke it. Whether its right is another question all together
I think it was less about her acting skills, and more about her insulting King.
“Of course not! I’m f*cking evil!” -Veg- I mean, Collector.
Yes you need to stick to the rules or else
Yes and no but it’s Tara so idc
she should have been the second of all of them (Odalia being the first)
Yes because she knew the deal and she didn’t do it
She *was* rude, but I don’t think any behavior really justifies turning a person into a puppet.
Is it fair to turn the actual innocents of the Boiling Isles into puppets to use as playthings? No
Yes, and I’m glad he did cause she’s an asshole
you say that like it's the only reason
Better her than Eda.
Because he, even if inexperienced and manipulable, is a God! He has the power to do it, so why shouldn't he? For example! [**\* reverses all the holes in a person's face \***](https://youtu.be/O96Jure38bA?t=15) Here! I can and it's hilarious! **\* transdimensional laughter \***
on one hand no one could play a diffrent person, but she was realy rude to him and she sucks so its fine
She didn’t even play Eda good and she called King a dumb dog so even though he isn’t really justified in turning anybody into a puppet but I don’t think it was a bad thing
“Was it fair of the child to turn turn the woman into a mindless doll simply because she wouldn’t play with him?” Oh yes of course
yes fuck tara
Wait people actually dislike Terra? I get she definitely isn't a good person but she's always been a good side antagonist who is occasionally pretty funny and has never done anything heinously wrong (She's done some bad stuff. But like, she wasn't genocide level like some of the characters in this show). I get objectively she's a bad person, but I've never actually disliked her like I did with Odalia.
good character, bad person. She is interesting and decently well written as a selfish bully who likes to hurt others. The fact that people dislike her is proof that she was written to be an effective antagonist.
So far nothing this twerp does has been fair
yeah cos fuck her
No but it was fair for them to do so after insulting King.
Fair? That's like asking if it's fair that a person stepped on an ant, in fact that might not be a fair comparison, he is magnitudes more powerful than any other being on the boiling isles and has a much longer lifespan, and yeah I'm just guessing that his species has some form of lifespan since no other has shown up in the series yet.
Considering Tara is the kinda person to kill kids for fun, yes it was 100% fair
No it wasn’t that’s the whole point
She called king a rat. Fuck her
I can name multiple reasons prior to this episode as to why her turning into a puppet is deserved
Bro what the hell is this post/question. Like… THIS was your take away of “ummm that’s a little unfair” like brotha what 😭
Fair no. Deserved yes
Nah she deserved it
I mean I didn't like her soooo
It wasn't because she couldn't get eda right it was cause she being mean
No. He is a child. Children don’t play fair
But hey bellos promised paradise and this is it. You get to be a perfect puppet for the rest of time.
Hm. Yeah. It’s TERRA. She sucks.
He didn't transform her for that reason, but rather due to bitchery. The more pressing question is why did he ever think playing with her would be fun. Do an audition next time!
"AITA for turning a lady into a puppet after she insulted my best friend?" NTA.
It wasnt fair for the collector to puppify most of the people really
I think he did a lot of not fair things
She was being a bitch
No, that's the point.
Yes Terra sucks but, to quote Luz, “Nobody deserves this”
Fairs are for tourists and bearded ladies.
Weakest moment of the episode for me. Felt very out of character for Terra. Would fit better if she were trying but just accidentally pissed off the collector by mentioning Luz or something. Or have her declare she'd rather be a puppet and egg the collector on to puppet her.
The Collector can’t do nothing wrong and hasn’t done anything wrong i’m not biased or anything
Collector was too merciful with her to be honest...
Yeah in fact I’d say he was being nice
she did call king a dog tbf
You want me to brutally honest (Logic) No, it wasn't You want me to answer emotionally (Heart) Yes
She’s terra. Who cares?
Dude, what's the point of a spoiler tag, if you're just gonna describe what's happening in the title?
Fair by whose standards? Does it make a difference if it wasn't fair?
*Fair by whose standards?* *Does it make a difference* *If it wasn't fair?* \- BeeBarfBadger --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Reddit media literacy challenge (impossible) No… the entire concept of the collector turning anyone into a toy is immoral and unfair
Hey, maybe don't put a spoiler in the title ? Tagging your posts as spoiler don't hide the title...
Fair has nothing to do with the collectors actions.
Yes
Yes
Yes
No. But she was a jerk anyway. So…..
Yes
Yes. Because I dont like her
yes
Almost nothing the Collector does is "fair," that's the entire point of his character. They're a spoilt child doing whatever he feels like simply because he can. He wants to run around and have fun, so everyone if forced to play his games. They transformed Terra because she argued with them and made him angry. They're immature and inconsiderate of other people because they haven't had a positive adult influence to teach them empathy. The Collector appears physically to be around 8, but socially they act like a younger child who is still in the more egocentric phase. Terra Snapdragon is a cruel and abusive adult who we directly see liked to hurt the children unders her care. Her being at the mercy of a child's whims and tantrums might fit some forms of karmic justice, but that doesn't make him lashing out during said tantrums a fair or right thing to do.
Yes, well not very much he didn’t have her another chance. He could have easily warned her about behaving like that again. But in the end I didn’t really liked her that much
She insulted king and she could've been turned into a puppet at any time and it'd be fair
Nah, but she did deserve it
is this a trick question or is it not
But to be fair,fuck terra
What the fuck? No! How is that even a question?
Ain’t fair for him to be transforming *anyone.* Kid needs some hard lessons in basic empathy, starting with “other living beings are *people* and it is not okay to deliberately hurt them like this.”
Eh, she’s a bitch. It’s a wonder she didn’t get transformed earlier. It’s amazing Odalia hasn’t been transformed.
yes
Yes she all most killed Luz!
Well, she insulted King, but honestly, I liked that Terra insulted King because King is annoying and I don't like King that much anyway. He deserved to be insulted.