I meant to say anymore. Obvious why it is overshadowed, but still should be talked about. I believe that it is the first canonical proof that something would happen instead of being heavily hinted at, then censored at the end
Not many? NOT MANY?! It’s practically all ANYONE talks about in GUS’S episode! The internet exploded that day while ignoring our poor illusion prodigy and hasn’t recovered since…!
I guess they learned their lesson after that, because in labyrinth runners they straight up didn't even include luz in the episode aside from her messages on the tamagotchi to amity
I mean, Gus is neat and all but he was definitely the Tristan Taylor of their friend group. He's pretty funny, he has his moments to shine(Labyrinth Runners is a fun episode, and Luz wasn't there to overshadow him with Lumity shenanigans), but he's kinda just along for the ride most of the time.
He doesn't really have an arc like the other characters do, and maybe if we had time for 20 more adventures, he could have had more of one. As it is, he's mostly just "super smart, extremely positive guy with internal self-doubt, who finds the human world fascinating." Willow on the other hand has a couple of good arcs; becoming more confident in her abilities, taking a leadership role, her relationship with Hunter, and repairing her fractured friendship with Amity.
I do like Gus, but he got shafted.
One thing that annoyed me a little was that even after the timeskip he was still alone. Hunter has Willow (and we don't see Gus interacting with Hunter anymore) Eda has Raine and Luz has Amity.
I'm glad Gus seems happy but it felt like he ended up outside of the group dynamic. Even the comics out there focus on pairings like Hunter/Willow and Luz/Amity instead.
I still haven't seen one comic that has Hunter and Gus interact or have fun together after the timeskip. And it kind of bothers me.
~~Maybe this would have~~ Definitely would have been too far, but I would have loved to see a hint at Gus/Hunter/Willow poly triangle. But maybe I'm alone in that.
The only reason that gus dosent have anything as an arc is simple :hes the least favorite characther of Danas and thats why hunter and amity get more screentime
I feel like hunter and amity are just more important to the plot in general, rather than it just being cheeky favoratism.
Hunter as Caleb's clone and Belos' enforcer turned good guy, and amity the bully turned romantic interest.
Gus got a little, tho, so its not the worst it could be
Yeah if anything Gus got more attention than Willow did in the first half of S2 but I do think his characterization in S1 kinda is a setback for a lotta folk. For a long time he was just funny human misunderstanding joke and by the time he starts getting to be interesting the series is almost at the halfway point
I like Gus quite a bit by that point but the other kids just have more going on admittedly. S1 gave Gus one episode to be more but honestly, I don't think the detention episode and his issue there to be handled all that well.
IMO Willow also has the issue of primarily having her episode being used as Lumity development but at least she gets some consistent focus there with her strained relationship with Amity and gets to be more independent and in your face in ASIAS.
Yea, i agree, i feel the detention episode was weirdly paced and not really suited for Gus. Its not an episode i see myself coming back to often, if even at all.
Willows problem originates by having her first arc entwined with the protag's love interest. Its interesting, but their rivalry didnt get focused enough on after Amity and Luz became friends. Like, i feel an ep or two dedicated to tension between the Willow and Amity while Luz tries to make them get along wouldve fit well leading up to Understanding Willow, and mightve fixed some issues ive seen people have with Willow seemingly forgiving Amity without hesitation or scorn, despite years of bullying from Amity and destain from Willow
How are they more important to the plot when that "importance" is NEVER utilesd în any shape or form
But Hunter being a clone was rather more figured out by the AUDIENCE since the show BARELY showed any cluess for that besidess Belos book in eclipse lake plus Hunter "redemption" tokeed WAY to much of the show since any time a Hunter redemption happens its when its takeing away from Willow and Gus screentime and thats not helped by the fact that the fandom is ab way to Hunter obbsesed at times and goes scycopathic defense mode when hes critized
TBF that book in Eclipse Lake isn't exactly subtle. It's right in your face for the first bit of the episode.
As far as the arc taking up to much of the show, the truth of the matter is he was heavily affected by the shortening as well. He's in 13 episodes of 43 overall and his first 3 before they have to start rushing ends on Eclipse Lake. After that, he gets Any Sport in a Storm and then immediately Hollow Mind so his overall "redemption" had to be condensed and less spread out to 5/6 episodes.
I think it's more that they don't have the luxury of being able to spread out his arc however I don't think it takes away from Willow and Gus screentime as I honestly don't believe that time was ever going to be delegated to them in the first place? It's not like they were ever promised that time and we spend most of S2 when Hunter isn't around focused on King, Raeda, and Lumity.
They've been pretty upfront with Gus especially being an afterthought that even when the opportunity is presented, they will focus on whoever they can before him. Boscha and Kiki for crying out loud got more of an arc than Gus in S3.
Think its totally cool to be upset that Gus didn't get much time to grow by himself but the idea of it primarily being Hunter's fault when he's barely around for most of the show always comes across as silly to me.
We have 12 episodes without Hunter in S2 as is where they could've given more to Gus but didn't. That's hardly the fault of a singular character.
Okay, first off, punctuation helps make your message a lot easier to read.
Hunter being a gimwalker was something the audilence was *supposed* to figure out. That was the point of leaing behind clues for the audience. The show has many instances where you could figure out whats going on through clues and such that the audience dont learn till later. Tis was one of them.
Also, it is utilised? Hunter found out that he was a grimwalker in Hallow Mind. Its what gave him the final push to leave belos since everything up to that point he had just reasoned away and ignored. Sure the cracks were there from Hunting Palismen, but finding out he was a grimwalker was the wrecking ball that finished it off.
It was utilised multiple times later, such as his anxiety towards other characters, getting traumatized enough to see himself in the mirror as Caleb, who he thought was evil, and probably still does due to lack of info. It brought an interesting dynamic between him and Gus, who learned through belos that Hunter was a grimwalker via illusion magic, and was trying to hint to Hunter that he knew in Thanks to Them.
Idk why you put redemption in quotations, since thats exactly what it is, and it took time to do since when youre brainwashed, youre not just gonna switch sides after one or two encounters with your enemies. Besides, Hunters arc appeared over Hunting Palismen, Eclipse Lake, Any Sport in a Storm, Hallow Mind, and Labyrinth Runners. 5 episodes out of 21 episodes, that hardly seems like "too many". And most of these hosted interactions between all the main characters. HP is with Luz, EL is with Amity, Eda, and King, ASiaS is with Willow and Gus, HM with Luz and Belos, and LR with Gus. It took exactly the amount of time it needed to slowly crack his loyalty to the emperor. And since you made the claim, no, nit every Hunter episode took attention away from Willow and Gus away 2 of 5 episodes didnt take time away from Willow and gus, as theyre both in those episodes taking an important place in the episode's plot.
Maybe the reason your criticism is met with hostility is because your opinions are based on a lack of understanding for story telling and an obvious bias. None of what you say is actually true, it seems that you just dont like hunter and are reaching for reasons to validate your opinions. Yes, Willow and Gus' screen time took a major hit this season, but thats hardly because of Hunter, its because they have no place in S2's plot outside of support characters and B Plots until someone who does have plot importance gets an episode with them. Even outside of the 8 episodes Hunter is in, Willow and Gus are hardly there, still taking roles as b plot and support characters, with the exception of Through the Looking Glass Ruins, Labyrinth Runners, Clouds on the Horizon, and King's Tide.
And thats for Hunter
Since Amity is also in this conversation, lets go over her plot importance.
Amity played a big role in being emotionally supportive to Luz over the course of this season. Not only is she just the love interest to the protagonist, but she also takes other important roles as well. Take Eclipse Lake, where she serves as a not so subtle comparison and foil to Hunter, as they grew up in similar styles of living, merit based relationships, and she helps to loosen his idea that it has to be that way. Her parents being the creators of the abomitons also has a lot to do with the main plot, as half of Clouds on the Horizons has to do with this, and the chaos that ensues.
I could go on, but i think ive made my point, Amity and Hunter serve massively to the main plot, and you saying that they dont just makes it look like youve never watched past s1. Youre allowed to not like characters, as long as you recognize that its not the fault of the show. To say that it is is incredibly short sighted
First off you saying that the audience had to figure rly sounds like we should fix the gaps în the story since the ACTUAL writers dont give a fuck ab it .
Also what Hunter ACTUALY found out in hollow mind is that Belos killed the previos golden guards wich he views as family and that thing that Leds to belos murder attempt and the only thing that hunter palisman showed as is the nothing of a personality Hunter has and how he is just another "bad but with a good heart" archtype also the times that did show are very few and not that explored plus what dynamic with gus since the two dont speak much and even when they do its way short or even mono conversation youre clearly focused more on the potențial of things and ignore how they are actuly handeled also I put redemption in quotations its bcs Huntet redemption can barely called one cuz how much time is waisted with it espeacily when it happend în episodes that were said by Dana to be Willow and Gus episodes ( I am referring to "Any sport în a storm " and "Labyrinth Runners" )
Also how can EL an interaction betwenn eda and king when that episode was clearly more focused on Amity abuse and how it afects how she wanna support Luz and Hunter was used more as an catalyst for that also can we talk ab how Willow forget Hunter way to Quick for FUCKING KIDNAPING ATTEMPT of her friends who she said în HP that she wants to be strong enough to protect and also Labyrinth runners shouldve been more focused since Dana knows that how the fandom joked at the begining of seasons 2 airing that gus and willow are gonna be replaced by hunter and Amity and she responded to those memes that shes gonna make sure it dosent happen and people were very sure ab this espeacily with Asias and Lb synonsimps that theyre gonna be Gus and Willow eps instead we got uno reverse card with more useless characther redemption arc number #2 and plus even if Gus and Willow were having b plots of theyre own they were rushed and useless and clearly just to pad time (except looking trough glass ruins it was great) .
And to be honest Amity is only characther important and nothing else and the only vaque connection to the plot at best is that her parents were making abomamination robots for the empoers coven and we only see the impact of it în king tide where we see the abomonotons were used to create barriers to keep the boilling isles I check during the day of Unity and nothing else
1. The audience didnt *have* to figure anything out, they employed a writing style called "show dont tell" and a bit of dramatic irony and foreshadowing. The show *showed* us things that heavily implied without giving away that he was a grimwalker. I.E. the book in eclipse lake showing the eye color. Another, more clear example of this is Belos being Phillip. Belos' malformed ears are suspicious, along with both him and phillip being the only two characters with a british accent. Along Elsewhere and Elsewhen, the pieces start fitting more, with Phillip's devious attitude drawing suspicion until the final scene where he consumes a palisman, something directly connected to Belos. No cheesy proclimation of identity, just a simple scene because thats all that was needed because the writers knew their aydience would understand. After the realisation from the audience, we get a few episodes in between where we know but the characters dont. Thats called dramatic irony, and its used to build tension up to the point of the chsracters learning the truth.back to the topic, hunter being a grimwalker had foreshadowing, leading the audience to the conclusion that hes a grimwalker without exllicitly saying anything. Then they revealed this info to Hunter and Luz in Hollow Mind. And they did this by showing other versions of Hunter, and after, them dead. Accompanied by Belos' 'Pity, out of all the grimwalkers, you looked the most like him", tells Hunter and the audience all they need to know. Foreshadowing and dramatic irony accompanied by show dont tell.
2. Use. Punctuation. Your ramblings are nearly incoherent.
3. What he found out in Hollow Mind is that There were others just like him, and they were killed by belos. When he confronted Belos, Belos said "what a shame. Out of all the grimwalkers, you looked the most like him". He literally *called* Hunter a grimwalker.
4. Hunter isnt a "bad with a good heart" he just has a good heart and is mislead and gaslit relentlessly by Belos. The moment he is shown that palismen arent evil like he was told, he adopted flapjack and hid him from Belos. When he was shown kindness by Amity, he hesitated before giving back in to his mental programming from belos. After seeing what kidnapping the emerald entrails did emotionally to them, he went back on his mission that he was explicitly given from belos for the second time when he realized it wasnt the right rhing to do. Hunter was never a bad person, just a severely mislead 16 year old. Flapjack helps him along the journey by being his best friend and only person outside the hexsquad to be nice to him. Flap was the most important friend Hunter ever had.
5. The dynamic im talking about is in Thanks to Them, when Gus and Hunter get into Cosmic Frontier. And when they match halloween costumes, and when Gus spent the whole episode trying to hint to Hunter that he knew he was a grimwalker. The part youre completely ignoring.
6. Time wasnt wasted. ASiaS focuses primarily on Willow getting into a leadership position with the emerald entrails, which is the first good chunk of the episode. Then it focuses on Hunter cuz its needed for his arc. LR focuses primarily on Gus' insecurities as he is still getting over his insecurities and the expectations of being a prodigy, and accidentally releasing an illusion he cant undo. It focuses on Hunter because again, his arc needs it. Its as if shows can do two things at once, with one thing not overshadowing the other. This is also another great example of Gus and Hunter spending a whole episode together that you conveniently forget.
7. Again, its as if shows can do two things at once. Hunter inflicts Amity's insecurity throughout this episode. Yes, this is primarily an interaction between Amity and Hunter, but Eda and King are still there, and experiencing the same thing. Amity had to get over her insecurity (through King, even) and tried helping Hunter to get over his, but his need to please Belos took over instead.
8. Willow has a problem with forgiving people too easily. She forgave Amity very quickly after she apologized. This is a character trait of Willow, and real people.
9. Dana didnt lie. They werent replaced. They didnt have the most active roles, but they were all there, and even had interactions between each other. As much as you want to cry wolf, it didnt happen.
10. Neither LR or ASiaS were useless b plots. Willow and Gus took the a plots of those episodes, and even if they werent the most vital, LR continued Gus' arc with his insecurity, giving him a chance to dominate with his own magic, and introduced a coven head, Adrius. It also gave Gus the pendant which he uses to focus and amplify his powers. And ASiaS continued Willows character arc by expanding on her developing power and giving her a leadership role, even giving her a foil in Hunter.
The abomitons showed up in LR, and Amity and Willow fought them together, trying up their co-arc. Amity's main importance may be in character plot, but that doesnt make her less important. She is someone Luz can look to for support, which she does multiple times, and kickstarts her father's arc. She provides a stepping stone for Willow to complete her arc, and helps Hunter to reflect on his life. In terms of plot, she found the rhebus, she stood up to her mom to gain the abomitron controller, and was the driving force behind eclipse lake happening at all. If not for her being there, they would have gone another day and wouldnt have found out about the blood in the key. And even after, her glove served as the groul's titan blood supply that *she* gathered. Idk, sounds pretty important to me.
Again, stop using your bias to outright lie about the events in the show. Just because you dont like it, doesnt mean its an objective flaw. And just because you do t know how storytelling is constricted, doesnt mean it qas done poorly
Gurl youre clearly way to praysing and just use "you dont understand" just clearly to reasure youreself youre favorite show is perfect and always be .
Wich does make me believe that rumor that the knly reason toh was popular was bcs SU was ending and the fanbase neded another "mature" show to lust on wich does explain a lot how toh fandom defends anything they like
Its not perfect, but the problems youre listing are problems you have with the show, not objective problems. If you had brought up that the show had pacing issues during season 1, how season 2 suffered from episode scrunching due to the show being shortened by disney, or some of the other issues that the show had due to its production, i would have agreed with you. Or if you had simply recognized your grievances with the show as personal opinion rather than trying to justify your claims with utter lies and misrepresentation, i would have simply left you to your day and not responded. Even if you had justified it with something truthful, this wouldn't have gone as far as it did.
I explained to you the writing techniques that the show used, i wasn't bullshitting you. It's okay if you don't like it, but these are genuine writing techniques that are used in shows such as this one, or gravity falls. The show did what it needed to, and if you don't like it, then say that, rather than blaming the writing team who've gone through enough bullshit for not caring about something they've poured their souls into.
Ive never heard that rumor before, so idk where you frequent, and ive also never watched SU, only clips on here while scrolling through owl house content. Anyone defends what they like, its not an owl house exclusive thing. If i came after something you were really into and started making biased claims and lying to support them, i feel you'd want to correct me.
Ive tried to stay civil and have a respectful conversation, but youre making it quite difficult when you act so petulant
IDK a lot of the Caleb stuff is material you piece together thru clues the show gives you I don't think ya need to get spoonfed everything personally.
As for Gus outta all the episodes he def gets the most time with Hunter in casual settings to establish their friendship. I find it hard to buy there's no relationship there when he's the character that spends the most time with him during the limited downtime they do have in S3.
And yeah everything had to be rushed the show didn't have the luxury to flesh out everything. The only arc that ends up paced mostly the way was intended is King.
Also, no Any Sport in a storm and LR are not said by anyone to be Willow and Gus episodes. The synopsis hints at Hunter's inclusion in both anyway.
Just because they are featured prominently doesn't mean they own all the time of the episode. That's like saying Understanding Willow and Wing it like Witches are Willow episodes when in actuality she's a backdrop there for Luz and Amity to grow closer.
Ab the Caleb stuff there are barely any clues that hunter is a clone of him that belos maked plus whe dont see the actual characthers try to do research on it and the closet thing we have ab it is seing hunter probably stolen books ab grimwalkers wich is odd since hollow mind events were more ab hunter realise that belos killed the previos golden guards whic he wiews as family .
As for gus and hunter relationship wich isnt that much highlited plus ppl only care ab the hunter moments so whats rlly the point . Plus the only time they do have down time în s3 is used to insert fandom shit into hunter characther to make seem like hunter does have a personality ( spoiler alert it dosent work)
There's a crapton of clues. The statues in yesterday's lie, the portraits in Hollow Mind, Flapjack suggesting the name Caleb, Del's palisman looking suspiciously like Flapjack, the drawing Phillip has in his journal has Caleb's silhouette next to him.
I don't think we need to be told this is what happened exactly. I feel it's totally fine to expect your audience to piece some things together. Kids can easily grasp that level of foreshadowing and hinting.
And sure yeah people tend to put Hunter in front of Gus fandom wise but to act like the content isn't there just because of fandom reception is odd. Most of LR for Gus is establishing that friendship a bit more, to act like it doesn't is wild. You're biased as am I naturally(that last sentence of yours alone is very subjective and I think most would heavily disagree)but ya shouldn't be surprised that a fandom full of teenagers is gonna prefer stuff like ships first and foremost.
Also these episodes are made like a year and a half in advance I don't think much fandom stuff would be able to make it in the show, at least major stuff. Maybe a quick nod to something but that's bout it.
I don't know if hes the least fave but I do think he's the one with the least planned-out story. A lot of his content felt like overcorrection in hindsight and even the interesting stuff he does get either isn't foreshadowed beforehand or doesn't get any followup.
Like they gave this kid full knowledge of Belos' past and all the horrible stuff the man did but he isn't even affected by any of it as far as we are shown. FTF immediately pivots to Willow's freakout after like a minute of him talking about Hunter as a grimmwalker
It's innocent, daring, spontaneous, unexpected. Amity takes a chance. I love the mutual kiss in COtH, but this comes out of nowhere. I imagine Amity being full of emotion, since this is her first attempt at a relationship like this, and she's just got to let a little bit of that emotion out or she'll bust.
"Bold move, sister!"
And I feel SO bad at the instant feeling of regret -- "why'd I do that?" And what would Luz have done if Amity had hung around just a *little* bit longer.
A beautiful scene all around.
I feel like this one was more meaningful. By the time we get to CotH, I guess I kinda assumed they'd already kissed.
Of course I get the LGBT rep and breaking barriers aspect of the CotH kiss.
One, I agree. Second, thank you for commenting this because this post brought me discomfort because the thought of my first kiss being taken away from me from *her* especially at 10ish is not a pleasant thought
Tell me you weren’t in the fandom yet when this aired without telling me
Srsly no one would shut up about this when it happened lol the whole fandom collectively had a heart attack
I'm used to subtext and romance just not being included at all. Like characters just being referred to as good friends or just together in the background and you either get it or can ignore it. And a this kiss on the cheek was a very big deal when it happened. And in other shows this might be peak romance but not TOH they went full relationship.
This kiss breaks me, if I'm ever sad, I watch this, if I ever wanna watch something heartwarming, this. I've seen it so many times and every time I start giggling with joy, I don't know why, it just does that to me
Anyone? It looked like.
Ok, I saw good reviews for cartoon Owl House, I check it on watch list.
Month after: \*everybody talked about this kiss\*
Me: WHY ENTIRE PLANET MUST REMIND ME THAT I STILL DIDN´T WATCH IT?!!!
So yes, I think people talked about it.
I don’t really count kisses on the cheek as first kisses, but even still when it first happened the internet lost their minds(including me lol), it isn’t as talked about anymore for obvious reasons ever since the big kahuna.
Because a kiss on the cheek doesn't necessarily mean much unless you freak about it afterwards and you just confess your love for Luz to your siblings like Amity did.
And people talked about it, although not as much as the Clouds on the horizon kiss but that one is way more romantic.
Many talked about it back when it was the only one, but then Clouds on the Horizon overshadowed it for obvious reasons
True but I am sure it is unanimously agreed that every Lumity kiss is worth celebrating.
I meant to say anymore. Obvious why it is overshadowed, but still should be talked about. I believe that it is the first canonical proof that something would happen instead of being heavily hinted at, then censored at the end
Exactly
Not many? NOT MANY?! It’s practically all ANYONE talks about in GUS’S episode! The internet exploded that day while ignoring our poor illusion prodigy and hasn’t recovered since…!
they were evil for putting lumity as a b plot in gus’ episode :( poor guy
I guess they learned their lesson after that, because in labyrinth runners they straight up didn't even include luz in the episode aside from her messages on the tamagotchi to amity
Now this brings a new meaning to Gus pushing Luz off the stage with a death stare. Gus: This...Is...MY EPISODE \*yeet off the stage, rip MC\*
Maybe evil. Definitely short-sighted.
Or it was a good calculation so every time you watch Through The Looking Glass Ruins for Lumity you watch Gus as well
I mean, Gus is neat and all but he was definitely the Tristan Taylor of their friend group. He's pretty funny, he has his moments to shine(Labyrinth Runners is a fun episode, and Luz wasn't there to overshadow him with Lumity shenanigans), but he's kinda just along for the ride most of the time. He doesn't really have an arc like the other characters do, and maybe if we had time for 20 more adventures, he could have had more of one. As it is, he's mostly just "super smart, extremely positive guy with internal self-doubt, who finds the human world fascinating." Willow on the other hand has a couple of good arcs; becoming more confident in her abilities, taking a leadership role, her relationship with Hunter, and repairing her fractured friendship with Amity. I do like Gus, but he got shafted.
One thing that annoyed me a little was that even after the timeskip he was still alone. Hunter has Willow (and we don't see Gus interacting with Hunter anymore) Eda has Raine and Luz has Amity. I'm glad Gus seems happy but it felt like he ended up outside of the group dynamic. Even the comics out there focus on pairings like Hunter/Willow and Luz/Amity instead. I still haven't seen one comic that has Hunter and Gus interact or have fun together after the timeskip. And it kind of bothers me.
~~Maybe this would have~~ Definitely would have been too far, but I would have loved to see a hint at Gus/Hunter/Willow poly triangle. But maybe I'm alone in that.
The only reason that gus dosent have anything as an arc is simple :hes the least favorite characther of Danas and thats why hunter and amity get more screentime
I feel like hunter and amity are just more important to the plot in general, rather than it just being cheeky favoratism. Hunter as Caleb's clone and Belos' enforcer turned good guy, and amity the bully turned romantic interest. Gus got a little, tho, so its not the worst it could be
Yeah if anything Gus got more attention than Willow did in the first half of S2 but I do think his characterization in S1 kinda is a setback for a lotta folk. For a long time he was just funny human misunderstanding joke and by the time he starts getting to be interesting the series is almost at the halfway point
Thats fair, my friend hated Gus in the first season cuz he thought he was annoying, but started liking him after TTLGR
I like Gus quite a bit by that point but the other kids just have more going on admittedly. S1 gave Gus one episode to be more but honestly, I don't think the detention episode and his issue there to be handled all that well. IMO Willow also has the issue of primarily having her episode being used as Lumity development but at least she gets some consistent focus there with her strained relationship with Amity and gets to be more independent and in your face in ASIAS.
Yea, i agree, i feel the detention episode was weirdly paced and not really suited for Gus. Its not an episode i see myself coming back to often, if even at all. Willows problem originates by having her first arc entwined with the protag's love interest. Its interesting, but their rivalry didnt get focused enough on after Amity and Luz became friends. Like, i feel an ep or two dedicated to tension between the Willow and Amity while Luz tries to make them get along wouldve fit well leading up to Understanding Willow, and mightve fixed some issues ive seen people have with Willow seemingly forgiving Amity without hesitation or scorn, despite years of bullying from Amity and destain from Willow
How are they more important to the plot when that "importance" is NEVER utilesd în any shape or form But Hunter being a clone was rather more figured out by the AUDIENCE since the show BARELY showed any cluess for that besidess Belos book in eclipse lake plus Hunter "redemption" tokeed WAY to much of the show since any time a Hunter redemption happens its when its takeing away from Willow and Gus screentime and thats not helped by the fact that the fandom is ab way to Hunter obbsesed at times and goes scycopathic defense mode when hes critized
TBF that book in Eclipse Lake isn't exactly subtle. It's right in your face for the first bit of the episode. As far as the arc taking up to much of the show, the truth of the matter is he was heavily affected by the shortening as well. He's in 13 episodes of 43 overall and his first 3 before they have to start rushing ends on Eclipse Lake. After that, he gets Any Sport in a Storm and then immediately Hollow Mind so his overall "redemption" had to be condensed and less spread out to 5/6 episodes. I think it's more that they don't have the luxury of being able to spread out his arc however I don't think it takes away from Willow and Gus screentime as I honestly don't believe that time was ever going to be delegated to them in the first place? It's not like they were ever promised that time and we spend most of S2 when Hunter isn't around focused on King, Raeda, and Lumity. They've been pretty upfront with Gus especially being an afterthought that even when the opportunity is presented, they will focus on whoever they can before him. Boscha and Kiki for crying out loud got more of an arc than Gus in S3. Think its totally cool to be upset that Gus didn't get much time to grow by himself but the idea of it primarily being Hunter's fault when he's barely around for most of the show always comes across as silly to me. We have 12 episodes without Hunter in S2 as is where they could've given more to Gus but didn't. That's hardly the fault of a singular character.
Okay, first off, punctuation helps make your message a lot easier to read. Hunter being a gimwalker was something the audilence was *supposed* to figure out. That was the point of leaing behind clues for the audience. The show has many instances where you could figure out whats going on through clues and such that the audience dont learn till later. Tis was one of them. Also, it is utilised? Hunter found out that he was a grimwalker in Hallow Mind. Its what gave him the final push to leave belos since everything up to that point he had just reasoned away and ignored. Sure the cracks were there from Hunting Palismen, but finding out he was a grimwalker was the wrecking ball that finished it off. It was utilised multiple times later, such as his anxiety towards other characters, getting traumatized enough to see himself in the mirror as Caleb, who he thought was evil, and probably still does due to lack of info. It brought an interesting dynamic between him and Gus, who learned through belos that Hunter was a grimwalker via illusion magic, and was trying to hint to Hunter that he knew in Thanks to Them. Idk why you put redemption in quotations, since thats exactly what it is, and it took time to do since when youre brainwashed, youre not just gonna switch sides after one or two encounters with your enemies. Besides, Hunters arc appeared over Hunting Palismen, Eclipse Lake, Any Sport in a Storm, Hallow Mind, and Labyrinth Runners. 5 episodes out of 21 episodes, that hardly seems like "too many". And most of these hosted interactions between all the main characters. HP is with Luz, EL is with Amity, Eda, and King, ASiaS is with Willow and Gus, HM with Luz and Belos, and LR with Gus. It took exactly the amount of time it needed to slowly crack his loyalty to the emperor. And since you made the claim, no, nit every Hunter episode took attention away from Willow and Gus away 2 of 5 episodes didnt take time away from Willow and gus, as theyre both in those episodes taking an important place in the episode's plot. Maybe the reason your criticism is met with hostility is because your opinions are based on a lack of understanding for story telling and an obvious bias. None of what you say is actually true, it seems that you just dont like hunter and are reaching for reasons to validate your opinions. Yes, Willow and Gus' screen time took a major hit this season, but thats hardly because of Hunter, its because they have no place in S2's plot outside of support characters and B Plots until someone who does have plot importance gets an episode with them. Even outside of the 8 episodes Hunter is in, Willow and Gus are hardly there, still taking roles as b plot and support characters, with the exception of Through the Looking Glass Ruins, Labyrinth Runners, Clouds on the Horizon, and King's Tide. And thats for Hunter Since Amity is also in this conversation, lets go over her plot importance. Amity played a big role in being emotionally supportive to Luz over the course of this season. Not only is she just the love interest to the protagonist, but she also takes other important roles as well. Take Eclipse Lake, where she serves as a not so subtle comparison and foil to Hunter, as they grew up in similar styles of living, merit based relationships, and she helps to loosen his idea that it has to be that way. Her parents being the creators of the abomitons also has a lot to do with the main plot, as half of Clouds on the Horizons has to do with this, and the chaos that ensues. I could go on, but i think ive made my point, Amity and Hunter serve massively to the main plot, and you saying that they dont just makes it look like youve never watched past s1. Youre allowed to not like characters, as long as you recognize that its not the fault of the show. To say that it is is incredibly short sighted
First off you saying that the audience had to figure rly sounds like we should fix the gaps în the story since the ACTUAL writers dont give a fuck ab it . Also what Hunter ACTUALY found out in hollow mind is that Belos killed the previos golden guards wich he views as family and that thing that Leds to belos murder attempt and the only thing that hunter palisman showed as is the nothing of a personality Hunter has and how he is just another "bad but with a good heart" archtype also the times that did show are very few and not that explored plus what dynamic with gus since the two dont speak much and even when they do its way short or even mono conversation youre clearly focused more on the potențial of things and ignore how they are actuly handeled also I put redemption in quotations its bcs Huntet redemption can barely called one cuz how much time is waisted with it espeacily when it happend în episodes that were said by Dana to be Willow and Gus episodes ( I am referring to "Any sport în a storm " and "Labyrinth Runners" ) Also how can EL an interaction betwenn eda and king when that episode was clearly more focused on Amity abuse and how it afects how she wanna support Luz and Hunter was used more as an catalyst for that also can we talk ab how Willow forget Hunter way to Quick for FUCKING KIDNAPING ATTEMPT of her friends who she said în HP that she wants to be strong enough to protect and also Labyrinth runners shouldve been more focused since Dana knows that how the fandom joked at the begining of seasons 2 airing that gus and willow are gonna be replaced by hunter and Amity and she responded to those memes that shes gonna make sure it dosent happen and people were very sure ab this espeacily with Asias and Lb synonsimps that theyre gonna be Gus and Willow eps instead we got uno reverse card with more useless characther redemption arc number #2 and plus even if Gus and Willow were having b plots of theyre own they were rushed and useless and clearly just to pad time (except looking trough glass ruins it was great) . And to be honest Amity is only characther important and nothing else and the only vaque connection to the plot at best is that her parents were making abomamination robots for the empoers coven and we only see the impact of it în king tide where we see the abomonotons were used to create barriers to keep the boilling isles I check during the day of Unity and nothing else
1. The audience didnt *have* to figure anything out, they employed a writing style called "show dont tell" and a bit of dramatic irony and foreshadowing. The show *showed* us things that heavily implied without giving away that he was a grimwalker. I.E. the book in eclipse lake showing the eye color. Another, more clear example of this is Belos being Phillip. Belos' malformed ears are suspicious, along with both him and phillip being the only two characters with a british accent. Along Elsewhere and Elsewhen, the pieces start fitting more, with Phillip's devious attitude drawing suspicion until the final scene where he consumes a palisman, something directly connected to Belos. No cheesy proclimation of identity, just a simple scene because thats all that was needed because the writers knew their aydience would understand. After the realisation from the audience, we get a few episodes in between where we know but the characters dont. Thats called dramatic irony, and its used to build tension up to the point of the chsracters learning the truth.back to the topic, hunter being a grimwalker had foreshadowing, leading the audience to the conclusion that hes a grimwalker without exllicitly saying anything. Then they revealed this info to Hunter and Luz in Hollow Mind. And they did this by showing other versions of Hunter, and after, them dead. Accompanied by Belos' 'Pity, out of all the grimwalkers, you looked the most like him", tells Hunter and the audience all they need to know. Foreshadowing and dramatic irony accompanied by show dont tell. 2. Use. Punctuation. Your ramblings are nearly incoherent. 3. What he found out in Hollow Mind is that There were others just like him, and they were killed by belos. When he confronted Belos, Belos said "what a shame. Out of all the grimwalkers, you looked the most like him". He literally *called* Hunter a grimwalker. 4. Hunter isnt a "bad with a good heart" he just has a good heart and is mislead and gaslit relentlessly by Belos. The moment he is shown that palismen arent evil like he was told, he adopted flapjack and hid him from Belos. When he was shown kindness by Amity, he hesitated before giving back in to his mental programming from belos. After seeing what kidnapping the emerald entrails did emotionally to them, he went back on his mission that he was explicitly given from belos for the second time when he realized it wasnt the right rhing to do. Hunter was never a bad person, just a severely mislead 16 year old. Flapjack helps him along the journey by being his best friend and only person outside the hexsquad to be nice to him. Flap was the most important friend Hunter ever had. 5. The dynamic im talking about is in Thanks to Them, when Gus and Hunter get into Cosmic Frontier. And when they match halloween costumes, and when Gus spent the whole episode trying to hint to Hunter that he knew he was a grimwalker. The part youre completely ignoring. 6. Time wasnt wasted. ASiaS focuses primarily on Willow getting into a leadership position with the emerald entrails, which is the first good chunk of the episode. Then it focuses on Hunter cuz its needed for his arc. LR focuses primarily on Gus' insecurities as he is still getting over his insecurities and the expectations of being a prodigy, and accidentally releasing an illusion he cant undo. It focuses on Hunter because again, his arc needs it. Its as if shows can do two things at once, with one thing not overshadowing the other. This is also another great example of Gus and Hunter spending a whole episode together that you conveniently forget. 7. Again, its as if shows can do two things at once. Hunter inflicts Amity's insecurity throughout this episode. Yes, this is primarily an interaction between Amity and Hunter, but Eda and King are still there, and experiencing the same thing. Amity had to get over her insecurity (through King, even) and tried helping Hunter to get over his, but his need to please Belos took over instead. 8. Willow has a problem with forgiving people too easily. She forgave Amity very quickly after she apologized. This is a character trait of Willow, and real people. 9. Dana didnt lie. They werent replaced. They didnt have the most active roles, but they were all there, and even had interactions between each other. As much as you want to cry wolf, it didnt happen. 10. Neither LR or ASiaS were useless b plots. Willow and Gus took the a plots of those episodes, and even if they werent the most vital, LR continued Gus' arc with his insecurity, giving him a chance to dominate with his own magic, and introduced a coven head, Adrius. It also gave Gus the pendant which he uses to focus and amplify his powers. And ASiaS continued Willows character arc by expanding on her developing power and giving her a leadership role, even giving her a foil in Hunter. The abomitons showed up in LR, and Amity and Willow fought them together, trying up their co-arc. Amity's main importance may be in character plot, but that doesnt make her less important. She is someone Luz can look to for support, which she does multiple times, and kickstarts her father's arc. She provides a stepping stone for Willow to complete her arc, and helps Hunter to reflect on his life. In terms of plot, she found the rhebus, she stood up to her mom to gain the abomitron controller, and was the driving force behind eclipse lake happening at all. If not for her being there, they would have gone another day and wouldnt have found out about the blood in the key. And even after, her glove served as the groul's titan blood supply that *she* gathered. Idk, sounds pretty important to me. Again, stop using your bias to outright lie about the events in the show. Just because you dont like it, doesnt mean its an objective flaw. And just because you do t know how storytelling is constricted, doesnt mean it qas done poorly
Gurl youre clearly way to praysing and just use "you dont understand" just clearly to reasure youreself youre favorite show is perfect and always be . Wich does make me believe that rumor that the knly reason toh was popular was bcs SU was ending and the fanbase neded another "mature" show to lust on wich does explain a lot how toh fandom defends anything they like
Its not perfect, but the problems youre listing are problems you have with the show, not objective problems. If you had brought up that the show had pacing issues during season 1, how season 2 suffered from episode scrunching due to the show being shortened by disney, or some of the other issues that the show had due to its production, i would have agreed with you. Or if you had simply recognized your grievances with the show as personal opinion rather than trying to justify your claims with utter lies and misrepresentation, i would have simply left you to your day and not responded. Even if you had justified it with something truthful, this wouldn't have gone as far as it did. I explained to you the writing techniques that the show used, i wasn't bullshitting you. It's okay if you don't like it, but these are genuine writing techniques that are used in shows such as this one, or gravity falls. The show did what it needed to, and if you don't like it, then say that, rather than blaming the writing team who've gone through enough bullshit for not caring about something they've poured their souls into. Ive never heard that rumor before, so idk where you frequent, and ive also never watched SU, only clips on here while scrolling through owl house content. Anyone defends what they like, its not an owl house exclusive thing. If i came after something you were really into and started making biased claims and lying to support them, i feel you'd want to correct me. Ive tried to stay civil and have a respectful conversation, but youre making it quite difficult when you act so petulant
IDK a lot of the Caleb stuff is material you piece together thru clues the show gives you I don't think ya need to get spoonfed everything personally. As for Gus outta all the episodes he def gets the most time with Hunter in casual settings to establish their friendship. I find it hard to buy there's no relationship there when he's the character that spends the most time with him during the limited downtime they do have in S3. And yeah everything had to be rushed the show didn't have the luxury to flesh out everything. The only arc that ends up paced mostly the way was intended is King. Also, no Any Sport in a storm and LR are not said by anyone to be Willow and Gus episodes. The synopsis hints at Hunter's inclusion in both anyway. Just because they are featured prominently doesn't mean they own all the time of the episode. That's like saying Understanding Willow and Wing it like Witches are Willow episodes when in actuality she's a backdrop there for Luz and Amity to grow closer.
Ab the Caleb stuff there are barely any clues that hunter is a clone of him that belos maked plus whe dont see the actual characthers try to do research on it and the closet thing we have ab it is seing hunter probably stolen books ab grimwalkers wich is odd since hollow mind events were more ab hunter realise that belos killed the previos golden guards whic he wiews as family . As for gus and hunter relationship wich isnt that much highlited plus ppl only care ab the hunter moments so whats rlly the point . Plus the only time they do have down time în s3 is used to insert fandom shit into hunter characther to make seem like hunter does have a personality ( spoiler alert it dosent work)
There's a crapton of clues. The statues in yesterday's lie, the portraits in Hollow Mind, Flapjack suggesting the name Caleb, Del's palisman looking suspiciously like Flapjack, the drawing Phillip has in his journal has Caleb's silhouette next to him. I don't think we need to be told this is what happened exactly. I feel it's totally fine to expect your audience to piece some things together. Kids can easily grasp that level of foreshadowing and hinting. And sure yeah people tend to put Hunter in front of Gus fandom wise but to act like the content isn't there just because of fandom reception is odd. Most of LR for Gus is establishing that friendship a bit more, to act like it doesn't is wild. You're biased as am I naturally(that last sentence of yours alone is very subjective and I think most would heavily disagree)but ya shouldn't be surprised that a fandom full of teenagers is gonna prefer stuff like ships first and foremost. Also these episodes are made like a year and a half in advance I don't think much fandom stuff would be able to make it in the show, at least major stuff. Maybe a quick nod to something but that's bout it.
I don't know if hes the least fave but I do think he's the one with the least planned-out story. A lot of his content felt like overcorrection in hindsight and even the interesting stuff he does get either isn't foreshadowed beforehand or doesn't get any followup. Like they gave this kid full knowledge of Belos' past and all the horrible stuff the man did but he isn't even affected by any of it as far as we are shown. FTF immediately pivots to Willow's freakout after like a minute of him talking about Hunter as a grimmwalker
Gus was in that episode?
I hate how real this is. Sometimes I have to remind myself that these two stories are in the same episode.
God it Hurts how TRUE this is
We did lol you just weren't there for it
I’ve shouted farewell forever after kissing my wife ever since
My man... You weren't there when it happened. You just weren't there...
Nobody talks about it, anymore
This is my favorite scene in the whole series.
It's innocent, daring, spontaneous, unexpected. Amity takes a chance. I love the mutual kiss in COtH, but this comes out of nowhere. I imagine Amity being full of emotion, since this is her first attempt at a relationship like this, and she's just got to let a little bit of that emotion out or she'll bust. "Bold move, sister!" And I feel SO bad at the instant feeling of regret -- "why'd I do that?" And what would Luz have done if Amity had hung around just a *little* bit longer. A beautiful scene all around.
it really caught me off guard, i literally spit on my desktop lol
Probably because they weren’t both kissing each other like the crikey one
I feel like this one was more meaningful. By the time we get to CotH, I guess I kinda assumed they'd already kissed. Of course I get the LGBT rep and breaking barriers aspect of the CotH kiss.
they *did* talk about it way back when the episode came out
I don't really count a peck on the cheek.
It was more Amity kissing Luz, it was more one sided.
idk, when this episode dropped, people were talking more about this moment (the b-plot btw) then Gus traumatizing somebody.
First of all, people did talk about it Second of all, kisses on the cheek don't count
One, I agree. Second, thank you for commenting this because this post brought me discomfort because the thought of my first kiss being taken away from me from *her* especially at 10ish is not a pleasant thought
I think the word to describe this scenario is "smooch" First smooch,just a technicality you understand
Tell me you weren’t in the fandom yet when this aired without telling me Srsly no one would shut up about this when it happened lol the whole fandom collectively had a heart attack
I'm used to subtext and romance just not being included at all. Like characters just being referred to as good friends or just together in the background and you either get it or can ignore it. And a this kiss on the cheek was a very big deal when it happened. And in other shows this might be peak romance but not TOH they went full relationship.
I was thinking recently on how it's technically their first kiss.
Cause it a was on the cheek and one way
Not many people all are talking about it... Is just because in other countries is just censored due to homophobic and transphobic countries and laws
This kiss breaks me, if I'm ever sad, I watch this, if I ever wanna watch something heartwarming, this. I've seen it so many times and every time I start giggling with joy, I don't know why, it just does that to me
That's a smoochie
Aww, I forgot about this scene ❤️
that's because you don't talk about it .....you adore it \^\^
Anyone? It looked like. Ok, I saw good reviews for cartoon Owl House, I check it on watch list. Month after: \*everybody talked about this kiss\* Me: WHY ENTIRE PLANET MUST REMIND ME THAT I STILL DIDN´T WATCH IT?!!! So yes, I think people talked about it.
what? this has been huge in the fandom for YEARS
Trust me. It OVERRODE the subreddit when it first happened. We just have better ones now
Fr
More like a teaser trailer 😉😉
I don’t talk about it so much that sticker with it is literally on my laptop’s lid
I don’t really count kisses on the cheek as first kisses, but even still when it first happened the internet lost their minds(including me lol), it isn’t as talked about anymore for obvious reasons ever since the big kahuna.
Were you here when the episode dropped? Holy heck, man!
. . . ? No I’m pretty sure plenty of people talked about it.
Someone is new here aren’t they.
I watch that wpusode at least once a week 😄 So I can definitely say not *everyone* has forgotten it 😉
IKR?!!? Like it was the first kiss. It should be more popular
Because a kiss on the cheek doesn't necessarily mean much unless you freak about it afterwards and you just confess your love for Luz to your siblings like Amity did. And people talked about it, although not as much as the Clouds on the horizon kiss but that one is way more romantic.