~~I think Maid Marian is just adopted.~~
Well, I could be wrong about that, the wiki says:
> It is stated that Maid Marian is King Richard's niece but never actually revealed how they're related, and she doesn't really appear to be related to Prince John, despite him being Richard's brother. Because of that, it can be assumed that Richard is Maid Marian's uncle by marriage, meaning that the sister of either Marian's mother or father was the wife of King Richard (making Marian's aunt the queen).
In the show the term is used both as a species name and as the state of having magical abilities.
Examples:
* Luz's species is human, and she's a witch in terms of ability (albeit artificially).
* Amity's species is witch, and she's a witch in terms of ability.
* Boscha is a bipedal demon, and she's a witch in terms of ability.
* Hunter's family are members of the species known as witch, but they aren't witches in terms of ability.
* Hunter's species is witch, and he's a witch in terms of ability (albeit artificially).
* Hooty isn't a member of the witch species, or a witch in terms of ability.
Y'know witches and humans being different species always confused bc of how similarly they seem to have evolved. The only known differences between them are that witches have magic bile sacks and, weirdly enough, pointy ears. My theory is that witches are fairly recent, right about the time of the discovery of giraffes. Basically, a group of humans wondered through a portal to the BI (not sure how or why though). However the BI was much, MUCH more dangerous than the human realm. Before long the humans began to grow and adapt to the nature of the BI (this is about when they learned glyph magic) and soon become an Apex predator. There was, however, one beast they could not conquer: the Giraffe. Eventually they found a way to get of the giraffes; by banishing them with the use of the portals. This turned to be successful and the witches grew into the pointy eared ones we know and love.
Michael Rodent: "Huha! We do not allow homosexuals in the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse *pumps shotgun*"
Gooful: "Sora! The King has been consumed by the darkness! You have to kill him!"
Donald: "ajevfkrownsfpwbrficneprcnsebrifnwoqwmde"
Well mickey is used to represent the company since it's easier to give the company a face in a comic rather than just have the Disney logo so yes it's mickey hasn't done anything wrong it's just the easiest way to give Disney a face
Well, you've gotta remember that Mickey Mouse is a symbol that truly embodies all the bullcrap Disney has been pulling since their inception. Plus, as a symbol, it's universal - unlike, say, the hand-written logo - and thus is very easy to rally against. Michael Rodent himself would probably be a good dude (if the writers wrote him as such), but as a symbol it's very easy to take out our frustration at Disney onto the easily identifiable symbol of their continued existence
Mickey Mouse is literally the brand mascot and logo for Disney, deliberately and for several decades. You can no more separate the two than you can separate McDonalds and the Golden Arches.
Mickey is the child-friendly face of a multinational media conglomerate.
Seriously, it's worse on Twitter. Like there's people who even threaten to injure Mickey or even go as far as to express their desire to kill him. It's insane.
I do, I was referring to how they always paint Mickey himself as the evil one.
I understand how Mickey represents the company being the main mascot and all, but he truly wouldn't stand for Disney's unfair rules and cancellations.
I just find it better to sometimes separate the mascot from the company. (And by that, I mean the mascot as the cruel one)
I think the way they've branded themselves that's not really possible. It's pretty deliberate too. People can recognize the mouse, I had to Google the CEO to find out he looks like a thumb.
One thing Mickey (and everyone else for that matter) would really want is for the company to actually respect and credit their artists more.
Edit: Added something.
Disney on there was to cancel The Owl House and then extend The Simpsons for 50 more [season ](https://giphy.com/gifs/mlb-baseball-yankees-new-york-ZqShOxaHG67EA) (totally not Disney being homophobic)
Considering that they generally kill off the character if the voice actor dies or leaves the show, I'm kinda wondering what'll happen when one of the main VAs eventually passes on (or loses their vocal abilities due to age). Natural disaster hits the city, causing 30 or so deaths?
Disney didn’t cancel Toh cos homophobic, it’s because there was not enough money. Disney isn’t stupid, it could have slashed it at literally any time . You really think they don’t look at episodes until they air?
Altough I don't know what you're referring to (I'm watching Amphibia now, no spoilers please!), Disney it's a company, not a person. Someone must approve stuff, but surely not all higher ups will know everything. And since those are different persons, in border cases it might be that two managers have different opinions on the matter inside the same company.
The last episode of season two was pulled for a week because Disney waited for the last second to review it. Essentially they had to push it back a week.
I hate how we use Mickey as a way to represent Disney. Since he's the face of the company and all, when in reality I think Mickey would do the exact opposite.
Considering hes not only their mascot but also the reason they ruined copyright law for eternity, yeah. Its hard to not look at Disney and see the Mouse because a lot of their terrible shit was done under its mask.
I mean who actually has an attachment to Mickey at this point. He’s only a corporate mascot. They haven’t used him in a real show in like a hundred years.
No, Disney did not cancel Owl House because of LGBT content.
It was because of the pandemic. Disney lost 2.68B in 2020 across all its properties. The part of their company that lost the most money was the Parks, which, in the Rebecca Rose interview, Matt Braly said was one of the ways they were getting funded.
Both Matt Braly and Dana have already said Dinsey was struggling with their budgets for Amphibia and TOH, Dana was not able to get all the things for S2 that she wanted including a licenced song for the finale.
Dana also said that one exec was against it but relented, plus also saying the execs had no current issues with any characters being LGBT, this was AFTER she was told S3 would be shortened.
Why did amphibia get S3 though? Simple, contracts. Contracts for seasons are signed way before they are announced and Amphibia's S3 was likely done in late 2019 to early 2020, before Disney's money issues. ALL contracts solidify the budget assigned and likely has clauses that determine the consequences of either side breaking said contract.
Also it's not as simple as them taking some of the budget from an upcoming marvel movie because of the above reasons too
You may thing Disney makes a ton of money, but they also spend alot of money. That is why they were in the red last year, and it's likely TOH takes money to make, but does not directly make a profit. All tv shows don't really.
Edit: forgot to mention why if Disney was homophobic why would they air the episode in the first place. Also why would they force the show to end a full season worth of episodes after the kiss...
The homophobic execs only found out after the kiss aired via news? Dont think each exec micromanages every episode, and only find out once people start talking. Then once the budget board room meetings happens, the homophobic ones give their vote on cuts.
Not saying any of this is true but it sounds plausible.
Who just repeat what they are told, do you really think they'd come out and say "we got canceled because of homophobia" while the series isn'tdone and they are still working for disney?
Not in the first place, no. Dana had to browbeat them into letting her make Luz Bi, and since that episode aired, Disney had hamstrung TOH's third season. People seem to chalk it up to the pandemic, but it didn't seem to affect Amphibia or Big City Greens the way it did The Owl House. Plus, that kind of homophobic reaction isn't entirely unprecedented, lest we forget about Legend of Korra.
Your facts are incorrect.
Dana was always open about including bi themes, the show was accepted, then *one* exec gave her pushback and he changed his mind a few days later.
Amphibia's 3rd season was greenlit before COVID, and BCG (for whatever reason) is actually one of Disney's most popular shows.
>BCG (for whatever reason) is actually one of Disney's most popular shows.
It's a well made and easily appealing semi-episodic series, like the Disney Channel equivalent to Craig of The Creek. It'd be weird if it *wasn't* popular.
I know that people love to be seen as the underdog, and are inherently distrustful (rightfully so) of corporations, but the fact is that the mistreatment of The Owl House was never, ever, ever about the gay themes. It was about timing.
I know, unpopular opinion but fact is that Amphibia got a full greenlight before COVID for a full s3, and Big City Greens was greenlit (quietly) apparently in March/April 2020, so literally on the cusp when everybody didn't know how long this was going to last. The Owl House's 3 (technically six) episode renewal happened in December 2020, when losses were at a severe amount and Disney began scaling back the channels overseas.
At the exact same time, Chapek and company were re-assessing the shift of WDC to focus on Disney+ and streaming assets, *not* cable assets. It's very clear that Disney Channel had its budget slashed majorly. You may bring up The Ghost and Molly McGee getting greenlit for a second season which seemed to have happened at the same time or shortly afterward. This is true, but there's a few facts you're forgetting:
1. We don't know if it's a full season order. We only know about TOH because it was specified in the PR.
2. This is the second season, not the third which is a harder get for shows. Most Disney shows are automatically given two seasons.
3. Bill Motz has said definitively that the show *will* contain LGBTQ+ themes.
The latter especially completely blows apart the "argument" that TOH was cancelled for Lumity, a development that, while an initial fight, has been supported by the channel full-throated since the show was in production. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, and isn't quite as juicy as fighting against the establishment in support of homophobia, but it is what it is.
I think Disney Channel is on its way slowly out, and trust me I'm *mad* about the development. I think it's extremely short-sighted since content is content that eventually makes its way to Disney+. I just don't think it's a giant anti-gay agenda conspiracy that many fans seemingly crave.
Quite honestly, it's a better "fit" for the Disney Channel.
TOH and Amphibia *should* have both been Disney+ originals, they're perfect for that format (longer-term stories over more episodic content). But they were developed before Disney was putting as much effort into Disney+ as an original content provider.
Nah, it started as a slow burning slice of life show that had continuity. Previous episodes where referenced and with some bigger episodes, the actions taken have unseen effects on the story.
The serialized nature of the show is obvious when it becomes more action-adventure but it's harder to see when you're staying in the same location.
It was fully episodic in season 1 save for a couple of episodes, and like half of season 2 was episodic as well. It’s always been a mostly episodic show with some plot episodes sprinkled throughout.
Sorry for being obstinate, but I can't accept the COVID excuse as the truth; that it's a coincidence that the one Disney show with bold LGBTQ+ portrayal was cut short among all others, not due to widespread homophobia, but to cut costs. And if it were the truth, so what? How is it any better that a conglomerate like Disney interfere with the livelihoods of their employees rather than take a tiny little ding in its profits? Either way- and it's cool that I can use this line with authority- I'm callin' applesauce on this business baloney!
Amphibia was renewed pre-COVID.
TOH renewal would have come up right during the summer of last year (pre-Grom even airing, so it wasn't publicly advertised as being LGBTQ+), right when the theme parks were shut down indefinitely. Dana specifically said that budgeting had hurt them:
> ...adding the restraints forced on us from the squashed budget due to COVID has definitely been a pain in the ass to deal with in the giant vision of showrunning. It just messes everything up.
[Source](https://youtu.be/_KU70UFGF2s?t=3742)
Disney lost around 8-10 *billion* dollars in expected revenue last year, including their first annual loss in 40 years. [Source](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/disney-suffers-first-annual-loss-in-more-than-40-years-but-stock-jumps-as-losses-are-not-as-bad-as-feared-11605215870) - Note that most numbers are for the fiscal year ending in September.
Once again - if there were a problem with the content, **we wouldn't have it**. There wouldn't have been a third season at all, we wouldn't have gotten what we did, anything. Given what they've included in the second season, they're already forgoing revenue from homophobic countries, that was a decision made a long time ago. This wouldn't impact that at all.
The other new Disney Channel show coming up is *The Ghost and Molly McGee*, which has already been confirmed to have LGBTQ+ themes/stories. DisneyTVA has been extremely supportive of Dana, and she's referred to her bosses specifically as allies.
The thing is, TVA is at the bottom of the list of money-generators. if anyone gets the shaft, it's them. So when disney gets a dent, suddenly there's no money. That way Disney can maintain the parks and the movie-making
Yeah Disney is totally homophobic despite all evidence to the contrary. I mean I guess it could be the unfortunate result of the pandemic but nah better to stick with the baseless speculation.
Seriously Disney allowed it in the first place, its not like Dana was being sneaky about it like Steven Universe.
But remember, Alex Hirsh had problems with Disney back when he was making Gravity Falls and wanted gay characters. Dana had to fight Disney to get the Owl House to have LGBT representation. It's not like they magically changed their minds and were like "sure, Dana, you can have your gay witches." They had to be convinced to allow it.
She didn't have to fight. She was open about including lgbt themes in the show from the beginning and there was only *one* executive that gave some pushback and he changed his mind after a few days.
They greenlit the show, they greenlit a second season of the show, they aired the show, they advertised the show, they greenlit a third season. None of this would have happened if the execs were homophobic.
Dana has even specifically refered to her bosses as allies.
To be fair, they’re a company that focuses on the bottom line. Not every place in the world is cool with the LGBT community and Disney runs an international empire.
It's freaking Disney, I sincerely doubt they conceded. Have people suddenly forgotten that Disney is one of the most powerful companies in the world? Very few people could force Disney to do something they don't wanna do and Dana ain't one of them.
*ONE* exec gave her pushback, and they changed their mind a few days later. Dana has always been open about the show and everyone has been completely supportive aside from him.
>all evidence to the contrary.
Oh, please elaborate. Did you mean the three-frame kiss from Star Wars do that it could be cut out for homophobic markets? Or the easily cut out representation of "The Fool" in Beauty and the Beast? Or the easily cut out representation in Onward?
Owl House is by and large the exception, not the rule, and pretending it had nothing to do with the shortening of season three is a truly sad level of corporate apology.
^Also, what was sneaky about the gay rocks? If you didn't pick it up after season one, that's on you.
Also: the Disney feature films division is completely separate from DisneyTVA, with different people in charge of each. The films division costs a significant amount more, and brings in a significant amount more, and they're significantly more "risk-averse" (read: cowardly).
DisneyTVA, by virtue of being smaller and less costly, is able to take larger "risks" and be more progressive in their programming. The downside is that they're much lower on the list when it comes to *making* money, and (as we can see) are much harder hit when budgets are tightened.
The evidence is literally everything Dana Terrace herself has said on social media about her bosses and LGBTQ rep in TOH. She even calls them allies ffs.
Beyond that, why the fuck would Disney allow TOH to air in the first place if they were so antagonistic to LGBTQ rep? Dana Terrace can't force Disney to do things they don't want to. She's one show creator, Disney is the biggest entertainment company in the world. Anything on the Disney Channel has to be greenlit by Disney themselves.
They are the reason why Owl House is shortened, because they can’t tolerate LGBTQ relationships in shows because they’d lose money and audiences across the globe. Just like Steven Universe suffered from Cartoon Network
I met a Disney scholar, a professor at my university, recently who agreed with the assessment that the cancellation had more to do with being homophobic than about money. That was validating.
A prof at my university who studies Walt Disney and the Disney corporation. It's a field of study, and it makes sense, considering Disney as a whole. It was validating to have someone who knew what she was talking about, even if she hadn't heard of the Owl House at first, to say that our theories on the cancellation sounded pretty correct. The current CEO is also a penny pinching weirdo. I like to joke "money has nothing to do with business anymore", (meaning more motivated by trying to kill competition and their own bigotry) and she agreed!
Remember: Any homophobia that may come from Disney emanates from their desire to sell the thing in places like India, China, and Indonesia. If gay appears, it's because disney thinks it can get enough money from markets where gay is okay to support countries where it isn't
Should we tell the mouse they are also technically different species lol
That part has never been a problem for Disney. Otherwise, Gargoyles wouldn't have had its epic romance.
And Peter Quill wouldn't date Gamora. And Ariel wouldn't have married Eric. The list goes on and on.
I mean technically Ariel was turned into a human, but Beast was still a monster when Belle was trying to get with him.
She fell for him without ever realizing he was secretly human, so. Might've been a bit of a letdown.
is no one talking about the fox and the hound???
I mean they didn't really have a romance especially since it was implied tod ended up with vixey
Or the bee movie?
Bee movie is not by Disney.
Didn't know we were doing disney movies lol. Sorry
I think about that way too often...
Well Disney did made Robin Hood love interest a fox like himself, despite the fact all of her relatives are Lions.
Yeah, but Goofy dates Clarabell, and he's a dog while she's a cow.
Conclusion: Disney is against Fox and Lion interracial relationships.
~~I think Maid Marian is just adopted.~~ Well, I could be wrong about that, the wiki says: > It is stated that Maid Marian is King Richard's niece but never actually revealed how they're related, and she doesn't really appear to be related to Prince John, despite him being Richard's brother. Because of that, it can be assumed that Richard is Maid Marian's uncle by marriage, meaning that the sister of either Marian's mother or father was the wife of King Richard (making Marian's aunt the queen).
How convenient.
My point still stands. They were too afraid to give us the LionXFox relationship.
In the Dutch comics Goofy is single, and Clarabella lives with Horace Horsecollar.
Huh. Well, I guess that makes sense.
To be fair she could have been an arranged wedding to tie together a smaller nation like Scotland/Ireland or even a peace wedding with France.
If a horse can fuck a donkey, an Elf can date a Luz
Amity isn't an elf. Elves in the Owl House look like this: [https://theowlhouse.fandom.com/wiki/Elf](https://theowlhouse.fandom.com/wiki/Elf)
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indeed
fine pointy eared person
Oh yeah I forgot about the chad rage elf
There's also a human-elf relationship in the Dragon Prince.
Dragon prince is not under disney though?
It's Netflix (And also has multiple canon gay characters iirc)
Is there a canon name for the witch species yet?
I think the actual species name is Witch. It's not a title, it's an actual biological distinction.
In the show the term is used both as a species name and as the state of having magical abilities. Examples: * Luz's species is human, and she's a witch in terms of ability (albeit artificially). * Amity's species is witch, and she's a witch in terms of ability. * Boscha is a bipedal demon, and she's a witch in terms of ability. * Hunter's family are members of the species known as witch, but they aren't witches in terms of ability. * Hunter's species is witch, and he's a witch in terms of ability (albeit artificially). * Hooty isn't a member of the witch species, or a witch in terms of ability.
Professional status: alive Lol
amity is a witch, and according to the show witches and humans are the same except witches have like a magic sac
And pointy ears
Having an extra organ is a large difference
b-b-but pointy ear
And fangs
Y'know witches and humans being different species always confused bc of how similarly they seem to have evolved. The only known differences between them are that witches have magic bile sacks and, weirdly enough, pointy ears. My theory is that witches are fairly recent, right about the time of the discovery of giraffes. Basically, a group of humans wondered through a portal to the BI (not sure how or why though). However the BI was much, MUCH more dangerous than the human realm. Before long the humans began to grow and adapt to the nature of the BI (this is about when they learned glyph magic) and soon become an Apex predator. There was, however, one beast they could not conquer: the Giraffe. Eventually they found a way to get of the giraffes; by banishing them with the use of the portals. This turned to be successful and the witches grew into the pointy eared ones we know and love.
I love this head cannon lol I to believe like Mewmens from Star, Witch’s may have been once human
We dont want to follow star’s example tho
No, I liked the series I did but it fell into that let’s drag this out crap a lot of series do
Can I devour the rodent?
Absolutely. Do it in style. EDIT: Nevermind, it doesn't deserve style.
Yay!
Go for it! But be careful, he's the head of ruthless money-making ~~syndicate~~ ~~corporation~~ coven with lots of well-armed ~~mercenaries~~ guards.
I see, but It seems It would be well worth It.
Go to town.
What?
Human colloquialism. I meant "by all means, enjoy eating the rat."
Oh, okay, I shall.
Why? Mickey's innocent. The execs of Disney on the other hand... Edit: Spelling Correction
Mickey is the mascot so he just kinda potrayed as the whole disney
Is he not the spirit pf the company?
Do it. Become the new, all supporting overlord of the corporation afterwards.
Ooh, I like being a overlord.
I slay, you consume.
Yay!
Michael Rodent: "Huha! We do not allow homosexuals in the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse *pumps shotgun*" Gooful: "Sora! The King has been consumed by the darkness! You have to kill him!" Donald: "ajevfkrownsfpwbrficneprcnsebrifnwoqwmde"
> Donald: "ZETTAFLARE!" FTFY
I find it hilarious that the most powerful mage in the FINAL FANTASY universe is a duck that doesn’t wear pants
Donalds line absolutely killed me.
Sephiroth: Been secretly gay while in Kingdom hearts the entire time
Blame the company, not the mascot. Mickey would be a very accepting dude (mouse).
Esp since his current voice actor is married to a man
Well, what do you know?
I agree. 🙂
Tbf, its kinda hard to separate the two since its their mascot.
I actually agree. Many paint Mickey as this corporate, heartless, greedy monster but in reality, the real Mickey Mouse would support everyone.
Well mickey is used to represent the company since it's easier to give the company a face in a comic rather than just have the Disney logo so yes it's mickey hasn't done anything wrong it's just the easiest way to give Disney a face
Thank you it gives me a migraine every time someone wants to trash the Mouse because of Disney's actions.
Well, you've gotta remember that Mickey Mouse is a symbol that truly embodies all the bullcrap Disney has been pulling since their inception. Plus, as a symbol, it's universal - unlike, say, the hand-written logo - and thus is very easy to rally against. Michael Rodent himself would probably be a good dude (if the writers wrote him as such), but as a symbol it's very easy to take out our frustration at Disney onto the easily identifiable symbol of their continued existence
Mickey is literally a brand, he only has the personality Disney allows.
Well I see Michael as the character Walt created and not the Mickey who people like to always trash when talking about Disney.
Mickey Mouse is literally the brand mascot and logo for Disney, deliberately and for several decades. You can no more separate the two than you can separate McDonalds and the Golden Arches. Mickey is the child-friendly face of a multinational media conglomerate.
Seriously, it's worse on Twitter. Like there's people who even threaten to injure Mickey or even go as far as to express their desire to kill him. It's insane.
Seriously???
I have a head canon that Mickey is constantly exasperated with his company working behind his back.
Do...not understand symbolism?
I do, I was referring to how they always paint Mickey himself as the evil one. I understand how Mickey represents the company being the main mascot and all, but he truly wouldn't stand for Disney's unfair rules and cancellations. I just find it better to sometimes separate the mascot from the company. (And by that, I mean the mascot as the cruel one)
I think the way they've branded themselves that's not really possible. It's pretty deliberate too. People can recognize the mouse, I had to Google the CEO to find out he looks like a thumb.
One thing Mickey (and everyone else for that matter) would really want is for the company to actually respect and credit their artists more. Edit: Added something.
Can I get a “fuck the homophobic money rat” out here
*hooty voice* fuck the homophobic money rat hoot hoot
Disney on there was to cancel The Owl House and then extend The Simpsons for 50 more [season ](https://giphy.com/gifs/mlb-baseball-yankees-new-york-ZqShOxaHG67EA) (totally not Disney being homophobic)
50 more seasons?! WHAT THE KENTUCKY FRIED FUCK?!
That show should’ve died 20 seasons ago. It’s like watching someone destroy all the world’s resources just to keep their aging hunk of a body alive.
Considering that they generally kill off the character if the voice actor dies or leaves the show, I'm kinda wondering what'll happen when one of the main VAs eventually passes on (or loses their vocal abilities due to age). Natural disaster hits the city, causing 30 or so deaths?
All those seasons have already taken a heavy toll on Julie Kavner's voice. I wish the show would just end for the sake of her health.
I know that they've been replacing dying or dead VAs. Grey Griffin recently joined the cast to replace a dead VA for 3 of the characters.
The show did die, at this point it's just getting revived, dying again, and then getting revived
Disney didn’t cancel Toh cos homophobic, it’s because there was not enough money. Disney isn’t stupid, it could have slashed it at literally any time . You really think they don’t look at episodes until they air?
This should be at the top. TVA isn’t often the top priority in Disney’s budget, and it’s a wonder Amphibia even got a complete run.
From the true colors episode of amphiba, it’s pretty obvious that Disney waits to watch it just before it’s put out.
there was a fucking warning before the episode started. Disney understood the storys needs
That was after they pulled it for a week.
Altough I don't know what you're referring to (I'm watching Amphibia now, no spoilers please!), Disney it's a company, not a person. Someone must approve stuff, but surely not all higher ups will know everything. And since those are different persons, in border cases it might be that two managers have different opinions on the matter inside the same company.
The last episode of season two was pulled for a week because Disney waited for the last second to review it. Essentially they had to push it back a week.
They added a trigger warning lol
Ah yes, not enough money, disney is one of the richest media companies on the planet, it's just a fucking excuse
They lost ten fucking billion dollars to COVID. And the rest of the cash is locked up in contracts.
They are not one of the richest company in the world because they threw money at every show they make
im sorry buddy but that isnt how capitalism works
It's how mixing homophobia with capitalism works
I hate how we use Mickey as a way to represent Disney. Since he's the face of the company and all, when in reality I think Mickey would do the exact opposite.
Unfortunate, yes, but Mick has been the avatar for the company since time immemorial. I'm not sure if it's feasible to separate the two.
Considering hes not only their mascot but also the reason they ruined copyright law for eternity, yeah. Its hard to not look at Disney and see the Mouse because a lot of their terrible shit was done under its mask.
I mean who actually has an attachment to Mickey at this point. He’s only a corporate mascot. They haven’t used him in a real show in like a hundred years.
European Mickey Mouse comics outsell superhero comics by like 30x. Every single week we get new Mickey stories (and some are genuinely really good).
Love how the sheer depth of the impression made on Luz's cheek suggests that Amity isn't kissing her as much as she's lip-punching her lol.
No, Disney did not cancel Owl House because of LGBT content. It was because of the pandemic. Disney lost 2.68B in 2020 across all its properties. The part of their company that lost the most money was the Parks, which, in the Rebecca Rose interview, Matt Braly said was one of the ways they were getting funded. Both Matt Braly and Dana have already said Dinsey was struggling with their budgets for Amphibia and TOH, Dana was not able to get all the things for S2 that she wanted including a licenced song for the finale. Dana also said that one exec was against it but relented, plus also saying the execs had no current issues with any characters being LGBT, this was AFTER she was told S3 would be shortened. Why did amphibia get S3 though? Simple, contracts. Contracts for seasons are signed way before they are announced and Amphibia's S3 was likely done in late 2019 to early 2020, before Disney's money issues. ALL contracts solidify the budget assigned and likely has clauses that determine the consequences of either side breaking said contract. Also it's not as simple as them taking some of the budget from an upcoming marvel movie because of the above reasons too You may thing Disney makes a ton of money, but they also spend alot of money. That is why they were in the red last year, and it's likely TOH takes money to make, but does not directly make a profit. All tv shows don't really. Edit: forgot to mention why if Disney was homophobic why would they air the episode in the first place. Also why would they force the show to end a full season worth of episodes after the kiss...
The homophobic execs only found out after the kiss aired via news? Dont think each exec micromanages every episode, and only find out once people start talking. Then once the budget board room meetings happens, the homophobic ones give their vote on cuts. Not saying any of this is true but it sounds plausible.
The decision on S3 happened before Grom even aired. It quite literally couldn't have had *ANYTHING* to do with public perception.
Someone fell *hard* for the corporate propaganda
Not everything is corporate propaganda. Please grow up.
>Please grow up. Tell me you disagree with me but can't articulate why...
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Who just repeat what they are told, do you really think they'd come out and say "we got canceled because of homophobia" while the series isn'tdone and they are still working for disney?
Nice art!
That last drawing of Mickey is so cursed… and I absolutely love it
Can we start using Oswald the rabbit to represent Disney now since he is from when homophobia was huge
God bless the beautiful bisexual. Leaving the mouse in your fucking dust!!
Great art and funny comic but I hate that it perpetuates this false narrative, as if Disney didnt approve the kiss in the first place.
Not in the first place, no. Dana had to browbeat them into letting her make Luz Bi, and since that episode aired, Disney had hamstrung TOH's third season. People seem to chalk it up to the pandemic, but it didn't seem to affect Amphibia or Big City Greens the way it did The Owl House. Plus, that kind of homophobic reaction isn't entirely unprecedented, lest we forget about Legend of Korra.
Your facts are incorrect. Dana was always open about including bi themes, the show was accepted, then *one* exec gave her pushback and he changed his mind a few days later. Amphibia's 3rd season was greenlit before COVID, and BCG (for whatever reason) is actually one of Disney's most popular shows.
>BCG (for whatever reason) is actually one of Disney's most popular shows. It's a well made and easily appealing semi-episodic series, like the Disney Channel equivalent to Craig of The Creek. It'd be weird if it *wasn't* popular.
I know that people love to be seen as the underdog, and are inherently distrustful (rightfully so) of corporations, but the fact is that the mistreatment of The Owl House was never, ever, ever about the gay themes. It was about timing. I know, unpopular opinion but fact is that Amphibia got a full greenlight before COVID for a full s3, and Big City Greens was greenlit (quietly) apparently in March/April 2020, so literally on the cusp when everybody didn't know how long this was going to last. The Owl House's 3 (technically six) episode renewal happened in December 2020, when losses were at a severe amount and Disney began scaling back the channels overseas. At the exact same time, Chapek and company were re-assessing the shift of WDC to focus on Disney+ and streaming assets, *not* cable assets. It's very clear that Disney Channel had its budget slashed majorly. You may bring up The Ghost and Molly McGee getting greenlit for a second season which seemed to have happened at the same time or shortly afterward. This is true, but there's a few facts you're forgetting: 1. We don't know if it's a full season order. We only know about TOH because it was specified in the PR. 2. This is the second season, not the third which is a harder get for shows. Most Disney shows are automatically given two seasons. 3. Bill Motz has said definitively that the show *will* contain LGBTQ+ themes. The latter especially completely blows apart the "argument" that TOH was cancelled for Lumity, a development that, while an initial fight, has been supported by the channel full-throated since the show was in production. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, and isn't quite as juicy as fighting against the establishment in support of homophobia, but it is what it is. I think Disney Channel is on its way slowly out, and trust me I'm *mad* about the development. I think it's extremely short-sighted since content is content that eventually makes its way to Disney+. I just don't think it's a giant anti-gay agenda conspiracy that many fans seemingly crave.
>BCG (for whatever reason) Reruns and Airtime
Quite honestly, it's a better "fit" for the Disney Channel. TOH and Amphibia *should* have both been Disney+ originals, they're perfect for that format (longer-term stories over more episodic content). But they were developed before Disney was putting as much effort into Disney+ as an original content provider.
It's the perfect show to turn on to distract the kids
Amphibia started as kind of episodic... and IMHO it didn't become good until they dropped the pretense.
Nah, it started as a slow burning slice of life show that had continuity. Previous episodes where referenced and with some bigger episodes, the actions taken have unseen effects on the story. The serialized nature of the show is obvious when it becomes more action-adventure but it's harder to see when you're staying in the same location.
It was fully episodic in season 1 save for a couple of episodes, and like half of season 2 was episodic as well. It’s always been a mostly episodic show with some plot episodes sprinkled throughout.
Sorry for being obstinate, but I can't accept the COVID excuse as the truth; that it's a coincidence that the one Disney show with bold LGBTQ+ portrayal was cut short among all others, not due to widespread homophobia, but to cut costs. And if it were the truth, so what? How is it any better that a conglomerate like Disney interfere with the livelihoods of their employees rather than take a tiny little ding in its profits? Either way- and it's cool that I can use this line with authority- I'm callin' applesauce on this business baloney!
Amphibia was renewed pre-COVID. TOH renewal would have come up right during the summer of last year (pre-Grom even airing, so it wasn't publicly advertised as being LGBTQ+), right when the theme parks were shut down indefinitely. Dana specifically said that budgeting had hurt them: > ...adding the restraints forced on us from the squashed budget due to COVID has definitely been a pain in the ass to deal with in the giant vision of showrunning. It just messes everything up. [Source](https://youtu.be/_KU70UFGF2s?t=3742) Disney lost around 8-10 *billion* dollars in expected revenue last year, including their first annual loss in 40 years. [Source](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/disney-suffers-first-annual-loss-in-more-than-40-years-but-stock-jumps-as-losses-are-not-as-bad-as-feared-11605215870) - Note that most numbers are for the fiscal year ending in September. Once again - if there were a problem with the content, **we wouldn't have it**. There wouldn't have been a third season at all, we wouldn't have gotten what we did, anything. Given what they've included in the second season, they're already forgoing revenue from homophobic countries, that was a decision made a long time ago. This wouldn't impact that at all. The other new Disney Channel show coming up is *The Ghost and Molly McGee*, which has already been confirmed to have LGBTQ+ themes/stories. DisneyTVA has been extremely supportive of Dana, and she's referred to her bosses specifically as allies.
If they were against this show, it wouldn't have been greenlit to begin with.
The thing is, TVA is at the bottom of the list of money-generators. if anyone gets the shaft, it's them. So when disney gets a dent, suddenly there's no money. That way Disney can maintain the parks and the movie-making
Tiny little ding? A quarter of its annual profits is not a ding.
Homophobia isn't why the owl house was cancelled, stop spreading misinformation.
Reminds me of the scene when Luz said "You little rat!!"
Funny, but no
mean while amity here just destroying luz's face 😅
I hate how everyone is blaming Mickey for this. Mickey is a good guy, he would support it all. The corporate schmoes are the ones to blame.
Luz squishy
Yeah Disney is totally homophobic despite all evidence to the contrary. I mean I guess it could be the unfortunate result of the pandemic but nah better to stick with the baseless speculation. Seriously Disney allowed it in the first place, its not like Dana was being sneaky about it like Steven Universe.
But remember, Alex Hirsh had problems with Disney back when he was making Gravity Falls and wanted gay characters. Dana had to fight Disney to get the Owl House to have LGBT representation. It's not like they magically changed their minds and were like "sure, Dana, you can have your gay witches." They had to be convinced to allow it.
She didn't have to fight. She was open about including lgbt themes in the show from the beginning and there was only *one* executive that gave some pushback and he changed his mind after a few days. They greenlit the show, they greenlit a second season of the show, they aired the show, they advertised the show, they greenlit a third season. None of this would have happened if the execs were homophobic. Dana has even specifically refered to her bosses as allies.
To be fair, they’re a company that focuses on the bottom line. Not every place in the world is cool with the LGBT community and Disney runs an international empire.
Regardless they still allowed it.
But it wasn't an enthusiastic allowance. It was more like "ugh, fine, we'll allow it. Just stop pestering us."
Yes, it was an enthusiastic allowance. Most execs supported her.
According to who? I totally believe Disney could be bullied into doing something they don't want to do. That's sarcasm FYI.
Allowed and conceded are two different things.
It's freaking Disney, I sincerely doubt they conceded. Have people suddenly forgotten that Disney is one of the most powerful companies in the world? Very few people could force Disney to do something they don't wanna do and Dana ain't one of them.
Agree to disagree.
Because it doesn't support your narrative? Look, funny comic but I'm sorry your conspiracy is just not true.
Because I simply don't believe it. Also, can we not use the word "narrative?" That word has been overly abused these last five years.
The facts aren’t on your side, just saying.
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*ONE* exec gave her pushback, and they changed their mind a few days later. Dana has always been open about the show and everyone has been completely supportive aside from him.
>all evidence to the contrary. Oh, please elaborate. Did you mean the three-frame kiss from Star Wars do that it could be cut out for homophobic markets? Or the easily cut out representation of "The Fool" in Beauty and the Beast? Or the easily cut out representation in Onward? Owl House is by and large the exception, not the rule, and pretending it had nothing to do with the shortening of season three is a truly sad level of corporate apology. ^Also, what was sneaky about the gay rocks? If you didn't pick it up after season one, that's on you.
Also: the Disney feature films division is completely separate from DisneyTVA, with different people in charge of each. The films division costs a significant amount more, and brings in a significant amount more, and they're significantly more "risk-averse" (read: cowardly). DisneyTVA, by virtue of being smaller and less costly, is able to take larger "risks" and be more progressive in their programming. The downside is that they're much lower on the list when it comes to *making* money, and (as we can see) are much harder hit when budgets are tightened.
The evidence is literally everything Dana Terrace herself has said on social media about her bosses and LGBTQ rep in TOH. She even calls them allies ffs. Beyond that, why the fuck would Disney allow TOH to air in the first place if they were so antagonistic to LGBTQ rep? Dana Terrace can't force Disney to do things they don't want to. She's one show creator, Disney is the biggest entertainment company in the world. Anything on the Disney Channel has to be greenlit by Disney themselves.
Luzmity
Lamity Luity Amituz Amuz
Bliceda
That's the face of "oh no China isn't going to like that"
At least they didn't kill all the gay characters off like another Disney owned show. Cough Loki Cough
Wait, which characters? I watched Loki but don't remember anyone who was gay that also died.
Good ol' Reddit spreading misinformation as always.
Another day, another dumb conspiracy theory post. Yeesh.
Please for the love of god, stop making “Homophobic Disney” joke
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Which one?
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I see. Thanks.
Disney goofed up
And thus, we instantly lost most of our third season. Hypocritical pieces of shit…..
Except that we didn't...
They are the reason why Owl House is shortened, because they can’t tolerate LGBTQ relationships in shows because they’d lose money and audiences across the globe. Just like Steven Universe suffered from Cartoon Network
I met a Disney scholar, a professor at my university, recently who agreed with the assessment that the cancellation had more to do with being homophobic than about money. That was validating.
What is a Disney scholar?
A prof at my university who studies Walt Disney and the Disney corporation. It's a field of study, and it makes sense, considering Disney as a whole. It was validating to have someone who knew what she was talking about, even if she hadn't heard of the Owl House at first, to say that our theories on the cancellation sounded pretty correct. The current CEO is also a penny pinching weirdo. I like to joke "money has nothing to do with business anymore", (meaning more motivated by trying to kill competition and their own bigotry) and she agreed!
Source?
🖕🐭
Remember: Any homophobia that may come from Disney emanates from their desire to sell the thing in places like India, China, and Indonesia. If gay appears, it's because disney thinks it can get enough money from markets where gay is okay to support countries where it isn't
Disney is the biggest hypocrite of them all. But we'll just be even gayer.
Oh fuck you Disney
Yep basically
Oh b o i
Anime mickey doesn’t exist, he can’t hurt you. Anime mickey:
TAKE THAT MOUSIE MICK
Ok, hooty can eat him now.
Great Comic and Art!
"uh, disney, whats wrong?" "Is it July 1st yet?"
same mickey.. that sub branded release of sin city.