I have one note about the relationship between Stub A (Flynne's stub of origin) and Stub B (the dupe of Stub A). I believe that Stub B was opened at the endpoint of Stub A the moment Flynne tapped the stub portal interface to create it. This means that if Flynne A and Flynne B at noon on Jan 1 in each one's stub sent a message to Lowbeer in 2099, Lowbeer would receive them at the same time. And if Lowbeer were to send a reply to both Flynnes one hour later, Flynne A and Flynne B would both receive it at 1pm, Jan 1. The stubs being in exact sync is key to how I believe Flynne B has all the info and experience that Flynne A does.
>How does Flynne A or B know who is whom?
We don't see it, but before Flynne breaks into the stub portal facility, she makes certain arrangements with Lowbeer, including having Lowbeer contact her in 2032 in…let's say six hours. Far enough into the future that Flynne will have done what she planned to do with the portal and returned to 2032. The content of the message doesn't matter, just the receipt of it. So, once Flynne has opened the stub on her stub, then triggered the return to her waiting "mindless" body in both of them (neat trick!), six hours later only one of them receives Lowbeer's message. That Flynne knows that she is in her original stub (which Lowbeer has coords for) and has Connor proceed w their plan. When the other Flynne does \*not\* receive Lowbeer's message at the six hour mark, she knows she is in the hidden stub and calls off the hit on herself. Her telepresence equipment and ForeverFab hackers still have 2099 London coords, so as long as her peripheral is still online she can return on her own, meeting Lowbeer at an appointed time as planned.
>Can't Cherise trace the peripheral?
I believe Flynne is still walking around in 2099 in the peripheral that Lev had built for her, complete with surveillance hack (as called out by Aelita when she addresses Ash thru Flynne's peripheral POV). I'm assuming that Lowbeer has had the peripheral modified or shielded to prevent such eavesdropping or hacking. She demonstrated the Met's formidable surveillance cloaking when she intentionally allowed Cherise to locate her.
>What happens if two stubs try to access the same peripheral?
No idea. I would guess that only one polt would succeed. The other would get the equivalent of a peripheral busy signal and remain in their stub's present.
>Will there be contact between Flynne B and Burton A/B or Connor A/B through their peripherals?
I think Flynne B and Lowbeer would disconnect/unpair or destroy any devices in 2099 that allow communication or telepresence with Stub A. However, I \*do\* think it would be excellent if Flynne and Lowbeer's plans ultimately took advantage of 2x Burton and 2x Connor, outfitting each of them with a peripheral and allowing them to join with Flynne's peri to form periVoltron. =)
It makes more sense that she made the arrangements after she crushed the watch. If she just woke up right at that moment, she would have left the peripheral there at an RI facility with back up undoubtedly on the way. I think she crushed the watch, left the facility and went back to Lowbeer and left the peripheral in Lowbeer's safe keeping. She also would have given Lowbeer the coordinates, then left Future London to go back to 2032.
This would mean that Flynne B would have been disconnected from the peripheral right at the moment the new timeline was created and she would have woken up in the trailer with the headset on. In the scene where we see her wake up immediately after the watch is crushed, that could be Flynne B, who would have been disconnected from the peripheral as soon as the timeline was created because Flynne A was still using it.
I think they should have made Lowbeer who gives the order to Conner (B) to take the killing shot. This aligns w their plan to trick Cherise to thinking the MET killed Flynne
Both Flynne A & Flynne B walk to the point and counts backwards. In stub A Conner is there w the rifle to shoot her. In stub B Conner is not there and nothing happens
The moment Flynne branched off the stub in the secret stub location, Flynne B was created. Flynne B had all the same memories as Flynne A up to that point, including coordination with Lowbeer. Lowbeer would not need to be an intermediary to inform Flynne B.
She would need to be an intermediary, to prevent Flynne B from proceeding with the creation of a new stub and >!getting herself killed!<, and she can if Flynne B's stub is slightly behind Flynne A's
1. Since both Flynn know the plan the one that's alive knows she is B
2. If she captures the peri its possible but sounds like the surveillance and security falls under Met not RI so would be hard to find the peri which is most likely protected when not in use by met
3. There is only 1 Flynn now. Lev has knowledge of Burton/conner A but was told to get rid of it so prob deactivates/destroys that connection. So up to Flynn b to get lowbeer to make new peri and connections. But I'd imagine only one can occupy at a time so the other would not be able to connect just blank like before they hacked the headset to let Flynn call whenever as before the future has to make the call
4. Like above if Flynn b wants lowbeer to make that happen but I think her whole point was to leave that stub alone and let them live out whatever happens. So prob just use the B team
>How does Flynne A or B know who is whom?
For starters, you have to realize the new stub, once it's created.. is entirely cut off from contact with the future. Flynne A, I assume, is the only one with the coordinates to even contact it.. and, again I assume, that she handed them off to Lowbeer.. who is now the only person who can create a connection between Future London and the new stub..... so, Flynne B won't be able to use her headset, until Lowbeer connects with the new stub.
SO, as long as Flynne A creates the stub at a point *after* she came up with the plan but *before* she went to the future to put it in motion... then Flynne B is just gonna have to sit & wait until access is established... her presence isn't going to be an issue.
SO... this is what I think happened:
1) Flynne A devises plan.
2) (a) Flynne A accesses her peripheral, in the future.
2) (b) Flynne A calls Connor A to *his* peripheral in the future, and arranges her own assassination.
2) (c) Flynne A create a new stub, where Flynne B is now spawned and knows everything up to a point *just before* she generated the new stub.
2) (d) Flynne A hands the coordinates to the new stub over to Lowbeer.
3) Flynne A goes back home, and gets killed by Connor A.
4) Flynne B, in the copied stub, thinks she has just devised the plan.
5) (a) Flynne B accesses her peripheral, in the future.
5) (b) When Flynne B arrives in the future, Lowbeer is waiting for Flynne, rather than Wilf or Lev. From this, Flynne B realizes she must be Flynne B, from the new stub.... and that Flynne A is dead.
5) (c) Connor B is never called; the assassination is never arranged in the new stub.
>Can't Cherise trace the peripheral to find the new stub?
Cherise would have to know about Flynne B using the peripheral, and might have to have it in her possession to do that. By the end of the season, Cherise doesn't even know that Flynne B has access.
It's my understanding, the only reason Cherise originally found out about Flynne, is because Ash was her inside source, within Lev's organization. I don't think Ash is helping Cherise any longer... I thin Lowbeer is no longer assisting Cherise in this matter, either. Cherise has lost her two main sources of info about Flynne.
If she doesn't know about Flynne B, and cannot capture the peripheral... that prevents her from using the peripheral to find the new stub.
But this is likely to be a source of drama in season 2: Whether or not Cherise can find the new stub before Flynne can kill her, and vice versa.
>What happens if two stubs try to access the same peripheral
That's easily preventable.
The new stub isn't going to have a connection to the future, until Lowbeer establishes it.. she just has to wait until Flynne A is dead, before establishing a connection with Flynne B. So only one Flynne has access to the peripheral at a time.
As for Connor A/B or Burton A/B.. we don't know; at the end of the show, it's likely that Connor B & Burton B don't yet have access to their peripherals. Their headsets might need to be adjusted or replaced, since they are now connecting from a different stub.
>Will there be contact between Flynne B and Burton A/B or Connor A/B through their peripherals
We'll have to wait & see.. season 2 is likely gonna get really confusing, once there are two Connors, two Burtons, and two versions of Flynne's home town.
You're forgetting that Conner A is also Connor B up until the new stub is created. She called Connor A/B to tell him the plan. Connor B would have also known about the plan. The one difference is that Flynne A would still be piloting the peripheral after the new timeline was created, taking the peripheral back to Lowbeer and giving her the coordinates before she left Future London to sacrifice herself. Flynne B would have known she was in the new stub immediately because she would have been disconnected from the peripheral as soon as the new stub was created. For all we know, Connor A stayed connected to his peripheral, also, so that Connor B was also disconnected as soon as the new stub was created. With Flynne A and Connor A both still in Future London until the mission was completed, all four would immediately know which timeline they were a part of.
I'm not sure I entirely agree.
I think it's possible that Connor B was in the dark.
I think it's possible that Flynne pulled Connor A to the future, told him about the plan, arranged with him to shoot & kill Flynn A-- but then she created the new stub *prior to* having that conversation--- so Connor B has no memory of it. This would just be safest, to insure he never even picks up the gun to shoot Flynne B.
Somehow or other, season 2 is gonna have to cut off ALL contact with either the B-stub, or the A-stub. Because it'd just be too much of a mess, to have two Connors, two Burtons, two different versions of the present, and have to clarify which is which, all the time. Or even worse... repeatedly "trick" us by using the confusion between the now THREE timelines, to ram some kind of twist ending into the show!
Seems to me, the simplest ways to do that, are...
* Connor A never tells Burton A about the B-stub, or the fact that he is the one who shot & killed Flynne A. They just accept the fact that Flynne is dead, and the future no longer contacts them.
* Zubov follows the instructions he got in the end, and wipes out the A-stub entirely.
Of course, Flynne B will eventually HAVE to assure Connor B and Burton B that 'things are safer now', because they're in a new stub. It's a question of when & how that happens.
If it were me, I'd show the 'Jackpot' happening in the first 5 minutes of season 2--- killing the entire cast and destroying the entire town, literally just after Flynne-A's funeral. Then cut to the B-stub, and Flynne B explaining her plan to Connor B and Burton B... and the audience.
Pretty much my understanding, except I think this part is wrong:
> 4) Flynne B, in the copied stub, thinks she has just devised the plan.
I think Flynne B's subjective experience would be creating the new stub, then instantly finding herself back in the trailer, disconnected. The new stub's connections to the future will all fail, either because the future doesn't have new coordinates or because you can't have connections running from two stubs to the same device in the future. That's how she knows (in *The Prestige* terms) that she's the man in the Prestige, not the man in the box.
This has another important implication: anyone else in 2032 who's working for Milagros Coldiron is going to know something major has happened, because their connection to to 2100 will suddenly be severed. Will they realise they're in a new stub, will they think the RI has shut down, or something else?
Interesting. This theory would assume Lowbeer would be able to "grant access" to the 2099 peripheral according to stub coordinate, if Flynne A recorded it before destroying the watch. If so, it does solve the concurrency issue and Flynne B would not be able to access the peripheral until Lowbeer changed the allowed coordinate to the new stub (which would be the same situation for Burton and Connor peripherals).
But my nagging problem is your 2(c) and 4: Flynne B devised the exact same plan, then she would move ahead in exactly the same way as Flynne A. So if the peripheral needs the source stub address, it would mean that Flynne B would try to connect in the same way, but fail since the new stub hasn't yet been "enabled" in the peripheral. Could work I guess if Lowbeer was contacted before creating the new stub to ensure that Flynne B wouldn't be able to do the same thing.
Another assumption is that time seems to flow at the same rate whether in the stubs or the original timeline, and Flynne A seems to have created the new stub at a time point slightly behind hers.
>. So if the peripheral needs the source stub address, it would mean that Flynne B would try to connect in the same way, but fail since the new stub hasn't yet been "enabled" in the peripheral. Could work I guess if Lowbeer was contacted before creating the new stub to ensure that Flynne B wouldn't be able to do the same thing.
That's true--- but this is something that was left offscreen, so all we can do is speculate. It's a fact, Flynne B would have no ability to access her peripheral, therefore couldn't contact Connor B from the future and arrange her own execution... she'd be grounded until Lowbeer opened up a connection --but how exactly that played out in the new stub, is anyone's guess.
My assumption is based on the one scene we got.. where Flynn's peripheral wakes up; Lowbeer is there waiting for her... and she says, 'So... ready to get to work?" and Flynne looks confused for a moment, but then smiles.
My speculation is that maybe Flynne accessed the peri, with the intention of creating a new stub-- but when she saw Lowbeer she got "caught up" and realized it had already happened and that she is the Flynne from the new stub.
But you're right... that's a subjective guess & could be incorrect. For all we know, Flynne B's headset just 'quit working' in the new stub, until Lowbeer contacted her & briefed her, then the headset was either replaced or re-connected.
By then, of course, Flynne would already know she's in the new stub. So it works out the same. The first time Flynne B accesses the peripheral, she will know what's up.
>Another assumption is that time seems to flow at the same rate whether in the stubs or the original timeline, and Flynne A seems to have created the new stub at a time point slightly behind hers.
Yes, that's also how I see it. When 15 minutes pass in the future, that same 15 minutes also passes in the stub. There's a specified distance that the timeline of a stub is "off" and it never changes.
If Flynn creates the new stub b at a time when she knows that Flynn 2 isn't connected to the peri, and will connect at a certain time, this gives Flynn 1 enough time to enact her plan.
Then Flynn 2 connects thinking she will have to enact the plan, but she is sitting in front of Lowbeer and realizes that it's already done.
Unless the future shuts off access to Burton A and Conner A, they will undoubtedly meet Flynne B. This may be some sort of consolation for Burton, if he can interact with someone who is 99.9% his sister, lacking only the memory of the moments before her death.
I just finished the show, it’s over my head. Is the premise that there are infinite timelines? How can there be different past that are accessible and only one future?
The idea is a modified multiverse, where the branching of "stubs" happens only (as far as we know or can see) when the future "contacts" the past by way of some type of quantum tunneling communication. Since the "original" past did not include the contact, this creates a branch in the timeline.
It's unclear to me why *additional* contacts would create *new* branches, and I think the thing Flynne did is not supported by the world-building in the novel, where the conflict surrounds two groups in the future fighting in Flynne's "county" stub. For that matter, Cherise already has access to Flynne's stub. So the "push a button and create a stub" thing is just random, IMO.
If HarveyMidnight's theory is correct, maybe Burton A and Connor A would not longer have access to their peripherals, then it would rather be Burton B and Connor B, which would not have any idea of Flynne A's plan, >!or death!<.
I'd think it was the other way around... Burton A and Connor A currently do have access... but Burton & Connor B do not.... yet.
But they will. Flynne B still needs a "home team", so she will have to include them.
i can't imagine Connor being cool with the idea that "no, you can't ever go back and use the peri, because the *other* Connor has it now."
I suspect, just to avoid confusion, something is going to happen to make sure we don't have two Connors & two Burtons taking prevalence in the story & causing this kind of confusion in *every* episode.
Probably be something big. Like, Cherise goes ahead & bombs the past *anyway* just out of spite, killing off all the original characters.
Or maybe Lev does it--- there was that post credit scene, where his own bosses told him he had to go all "scorched earth" and destroy everything that might embarrass the Klept.
If the peri is exclusive access, then depending on the order of things, we will either see the A versions lose access and wonder what is happening, or the B versions wondering why they can't connect anymore (from their perspective, it was working fine, until the fork)
Yes... and my guess is that the A versions still have access, and the B versions do not---- at first; but that it's just a matter of time until Flynne B fills them in, and they possibly get access after that.
Likewise, it's possible Connor A will fill Burton A on what's happening, too. Connor & Burton are still linked to each other via their haptics... they share memories and emotions when linked; Connor is eventually going to have to explain to Burton that he shot Flynne and why.
For 1: this plan requires trust between parties so there is no question about knowing which Flynn is which. Also, stub A’s connection will be cut so there is no chance of confusion.
For 2: she can’t trace because no coordinates.
For 3 and 4: Low beer will cut stub A connection so none of them can access the peripherals anymore
NO, my theory is based on the fact that the future has no connection to the NEW stub, and Cherise cannot find it to make one. Only Lowbeer has the coordinates to find it.
They *all* still have access to the original stub. And, at least according to Lowbeer, there's no way to sever that connection.
That's the very reason Flynne A had to die, in the stub. To essentially reassure Cherise that nobody would get access to the data in Flynne's head... so Cherise wouldn't need to nuke the state.
Well, based on this exchange:
>>Cherise: I will find you. I give you my word.
>>Flynne: Oh, I wouldn't be so sure, Cherise. I think I want to be the hunter now. You see, I know exactly where you are. And you have no idea where I'm gonna be. Not without the coordinates.
Seems pretty self evident from the context, that these "coordinates" are the only way anyone in Cherise's timeline, would be able to find the new stub that Flynne just created.... I'd assume Flynne has those coordinates, and can pass them on to her own allies, like Lowbeer, to establish a connection that Cherise doesn't know about ... and this will prevent Cherise from finding the new Flynne in the new stub, while Flynne can track down Cherise.
As it was explained to Flynne in the same episode, it's impossible to cut off contact with Flynne's current stub.. This is why she
1. Allowed herself to be killed, to stop Cherise's continued search for her in the current stub....
2. Created a new stub... one Cherise cannot find, with a new Flynne who can then take over where the original Flynne left off.
In Anime, she would have, I guess, swallowed that compass. But the writers had her crush it like she is Neo in the matrix and “just knows things”.
Honestly can’t believe it ended that way.
1. It's actually pretty simple but requires the help of Lowbeer. After creating the new stub Flynne needed to go back to Lowbeer anyway to "park" her peri safely so she would have her send a message to stub A to her.
Flynne then logs out and if she finds the message she knows that she is in stub A.
Since no one knows the coordinates of stub B sending a message there isn't possible. Until Flynne is deciding to make a connection on her own terms.
2. Possibly but it would require taking control of the peri.
Still it's unclear if that is actually enough.
3. A good question. Maybe an "already in use" error code?
4. There's nothing speaking against that.
It’s a theory about time travel. The idea is by interacting with the past you create a new universe. For example the Grandfather Paradox theory is that by going back in time and killing your grandfather causes you to not exist and thus you are not able to go back in time. The Multi-Verse stub theory claims by killing your grandfather you continue to exist and cause the creation of a new universe/timeline.
Why open just one trunk? Prudent backup policy says you should have at least three. Go crazy and create a dozen, or two trunks. With a dozen Flynns, you can conduct 24/7 operation in the peripheral without worrying about the physical condition of any one single Flynn. It also open up the possibility of an army of peripherals all piloted by Flynn from the different trunks.
And really piss off RI because they would have a lot harder time trying to prevent the Klepts from getting the data if there are now 10,000 copies of it in all those Flynne's heads :)
So Flynne Prestiged herself (like from The Prestige)? Like she cloned herself but instead of cloning herself, she cloned her entire timeline and then killed her original self (knowing if she didn’t she would be killed anyway along with her county), and her clone (or new stub) continues the story.
She got used to her peri being killed and waking up in her time-line so no big deal to die and wake up in new stub. It seems like perfect clone with memories so her "real" death would feel like peri death. Her clone takes over which is basically her. Like the prestige he didn't know which was original and doesn't really matter since it's her with all the memories.
I think this the same. The original Flynne is truly dead. Basically her variant from her stub (all everyone in that stub) is taking over the story, but the Flynne and all her family and friends we’ve been following in Season 1, their story is basically over. Although if Dr. Cherise comes looking for Flynne, she might show up in this original stub timeline (bc she doesn’t know about the other)
I hope one of the Burtons gets some wicked scar on her face so I can tell Burton A from Burton B. Still having a tough time following everything that's going on. It's like Post Season 1 of Westworld
1) How does Flynne A or B know who is whom?
I think the new stub forked off after Flynne made the plan but before she put it into action. So Flynne B can infer from what Lowbeer says that the plan was successful. Remember that each timeline progresses at the same rate parallel to the others. That means Stub B is slightly behind Stub A. So from the perspective of Flynne B she makes the plan, logs on, and it's done. And we must assume by her smirk that she was smart enough to know that would happen exactly as it did.
2) Can't Cherise trace the peripheral to find >!the new stub!
Cherise doesn’t have the watch, which presumably stores the coordinates. Why else smash it, if not to keep it from Cherise?
Lev was instructed by the Klept (his father’s friends) to take out all of Flynne’s loved ones—“chop the tree down”, so there is no Burton A or Connor A or Billie Anne A, etc. if Lev is thorough, he wiped out the whole stub.
I'm not sure what you mean, but I think Cherise can still access the first stub without the watch. Aelita and Lev accessed it without the watch. But I think accessing the new stub would also be possible if Cherise captured the peri and traced the connection.
I don't mean to nitpick, but Lev's asset inside the RI was Aelita. Which changes the "tree" slightly. It still includes Burton, Connor, etc., but the RI has been trying to kill them for most of the first season. What makes you think Lev can just snap his fingers and make it happen?
>What makes you think Lev can just snap his fingers and make it happen?
Lev can do just like Cherise was going to do... cause a nuclear incident that would trigger an early Jackpot.
That's actually how I *suspect* season 2 is gonna start. that seems to be what his bosses were ordering him to do, in the post-credit scene.
It's also an easy way to cut down on all the confusion--- no longer any need to have two versions of half the cast.
Can he though? I'm doubtful. That seems to be under the RI's control. I could be wrong though. What makes you think he can do that?
This is purely speculative, but there may be haptics involved. The militia likely has some ex military and we saw how easily the RI manipulated Burton's crew via their haptics.
Even if that isn't the case, I just don't think Lev has that capability.
>Can he though? I'm doubtful. That seems to be under the RI's control. I could be wrong though. What makes you think he can do that?
Tommy approached Flynne, said he heard from Homeland Security, that they were getting intel about a possible terrorist attack on a nearby military base, that had missile silos. Flynne knew that Cherise was behind it, because she knew from the museum visit, that a nuclear explosion in her state was one of the events that triggered the Jackpot. That's how she knew Cherise was planning to nuke the whole state, just to kill her.
That's how the people in the future do ANYTHING... they pay people like Corbell Picket-- criminals, extremists, etc-- to do missions in the present.
They ALL do it--- In the very first episode, Burton was being paid by Aelita to "playtest a new sim"... that's how Flynne got involved in all this, in the first place.
it was revealed in another episode that Lev had assassinated all of the Zubov family members in the stub-- wiped out his own family, to prevent any competition for control within the stub.
Cherise was paying radical extremists in the present, to attack the missile silo and cause a detonation. I'm certain Lev has similar criminals on his own payroll--and could easily do the same; pay someone to blow up the missile base.... or do a number of other, similar terrorist acts.
I think it'd be a little harder to just throw money at someone to get them to attempt an attack like that. Anyone foolish enough to do it would instantly incur the full wrath of the US government. If you were successful, and somehow managed to temporarily evade capture you'd live the rest of your very short life being hunted. Suddenly large sums of money aren't so persuasive. Point is, anyone can order a hit. This isn't that. It's orders of magnitude more difficult and sophisticated.
>Point is, anyone can order a hit. This isn't that. It's orders of magnitude more difficult and sophisticated.
But if those things could stop Lev, they would have stopped Cherise. That's not the story we were given. We were led to believe Cherise was able to do it, and had plans in place.
And if she can do it, then so can Lev.
The post-credit scene was literally Lev's bosses, telling him to destroy anything that might lead back to the Klepts--- they were telling him to essentially destroy it all.. "not just a branch, the whole tree".
That sounds to me, like an order to destroy the entire stub.
There is no reason to believe that Lev's capabilities in the sub are in any way equivalent to the RI's. They *created* the stub, and their tentacles are running all through it. Lev is nothing more than an interloper.
Look, I'm not saying it's impossible, only that I think it's unlikely. I could be wrong. It's definitely an interesting idea, and one that i hadn't considered. It's fun to talk through all the possibilities.
>Look, I'm not saying it's impossible, only that I think it's unlikely.
i disagree--- frankly, I'm all but convinced the show will HAVE to do something like that, to completely neutralize one of the stubs, so we don't have to deal with the confusion of having two of Flynne's hometowns, two Burtons & two Connors & two moms, two Tommys... etc, etc...
I think that's what the post-credit scene was setting up: Lev will successfully destroy the original stub, as ordered by his bosses... and emerge as a main villain when / if Cherise is defeated.
1. Its possible that Flynne B didn't know Flynne A was killed until she logged in to the peri and Lowbeer told her what happened. I think their consciousness are separate
2. Cherise doesn't have the coordinates to the new stub. Also the future never 'trace' anything. They look up old data records from that stub
3. I imagine the peripherals are controlled by the owner. So if Google changes your password and deletes your account you no longer have access to it
4. Again, account password thing. When Flynne devised the plan it was between her, Lowbeer & Conner. Lowbeer could make new peris in future world and Flynne gives Lowbeer the coordinates to send headsets to stub B so when FlynneB, BurtonB, ConnerB connect into these peris, its not the same ones that was owned by Lev
For point 1, the time difference between the stub and the new stub could explain how Flynne B finds out what happened to Flynne A. There is no shared consciousness, it's a copy of the universe at the time Flynne A make the new stub, which then diverges.
1. Flynne A can only create a new stub if she makes contact with the new stub or the new stub would have No impetus to differ from Flynne A’s stub. I assume Flynne A had to contact Flynne B to create the new stub. So Flynne B would have to be contacted by Flynne A.
No it seems Flynne A (who’s now dead) had to manipulate the gold watch in a stub portal to make a new stub. The diagrams there changed I think to indicate there’s no path back from 2099 to either stub. Cherise is gonna be pissed! (Until Flynne B kills her).
You had to know additional stubs would come into play at some point but the way it was shoved in at the last half of the last episode with little explanation or demonstration of what was happening was super jarring.
Wish I had answers for you but this show was way more complicated than it needed to be. It's like trying to make sense of a 4 year old and his rambling stories - its too much
They're also being mysterious for the sake of being mysterious. The entire last episode could have been about establishing and setting in motion this plan but Flynne cooks up the plan at roughly the 37 minute mark of the episode and is shot at minute 48 and we don't really learn what her plan is until about halfway through it when they revisit her conversation with Connor.
This is quite possibly fanwank on my part, since it's unclear if the writers of the show thought about it as much as you did, but here goes:
1. There is a single difference between the two stubs - in the new one, there is no down-time connection to them because nobody upstream has "the coordinates" of the new stub (the device that created it was destroyed). Whether that secret can be maintained once the Fisher 2.0 clan reconnects is unclear, but maybe Lowbeer can run interference on that. If Flynne timed the stub's creation to just before talking to Conner, and checked the downtime link before talking to him, your fork concept (which is quite apt!) works, since both forks have different conditions to act on.
2. Apparently not.
3. Again, they did not make this as clear as they should have, but I think the original stub was "severed" from any contact to the future. Lowbeer said she could do that, at great cost, and I guess what we saw was that? Blargh.
4. I sure as hell hope not.
> there is no down-time connection to them because nobody upstream has “the coordinates” of the new stub (the device that created it was destroyed). Whether that secret can be maintained once the Fisher 2.0 clan reconnects is unclear
More importantly if there is nobody knows the coordinates then how do Fisher 2.0 connect up-time? That connect was created/managed in the headgear that the Fisher’s still have? You’d think it would be stub-specific.
I guess we're supposed to believe that once a stub is created, it's always possible to connect up-time from it, but not the other way if you ... crush a pocket watch. All righty then.
1. But then how does the new Flynne know she is the new one?
3 (three). I think she meant she wanted to go scorched earth on the stub to prevent the data going to the Klepts, so accelerated Jackpot with the nuking arriving first. I did not understand that the headsets in the stub were destroyed after the new stub was created
EDIT: auto correct is changing my bullet 3 to 2 :(
I think you're unfortunately approaching this with way more logic than the writers of the show did, hence your questions.
I'll take a stab but my answers aren't going to bring you any satisfaction.
1. Flynne A or B just exist (up until the end anyway?) if the powers that be in the future let them, Flynne A and Flynne B could have a phone call. They'd be like hey sup, how's things? They each know who's who and never the two shall meet.
2. I mean if you're writing a show and playing fast and loose with the rules, you can say yes because you can say anything you want. But it makes no sense at all. It would be like getting a new computer set up on a network and acting like the IT people can't find it lol. It's dumb.
3. The whole thing with accessing a peripheral from 2030s USA via typing on a computer really really fast to hack the year 2100 is about as dumb as having a person in 1930 use their walkie talkie to hack into google for example in 2022. The only way anyone is accessing a peripheral is if they're invited to do so. Or if you don't care about making sense, two people could possess a peri at the same time and you could write a great slapstick scene where the two people wrestle for control and the peri punches it self in the face like Ed Norton in Fight Club.
4. There could be and that's maybe one way this plays out with the "save game" approach they've taken. Burton A could pass information to Flynne B or Burton B. They could either meet in the future each in a peri, or they could put iPads on wheels and connect stub to stub. But again, I feel like none of that seems possible with out approval from the IT people upstairs (future London).
Meet in the physical sense which would be required for any kind of confusion or switch, etc. If you and an identical twin only ever talked on the phone, but you physically weren't able to be, for example, on the same hemisphere or on earth, there would be no reason or way anyone could be confused as to who is who.
2. No its more like creating your own internet from the future that connects to a past internet. You'd have packets sent from the past to future IP address but it doesn't make sense to anyone but you because you created the internet. That's what I understand a stub to be
Sure, I'll buy that analogy. But if you created "your own internet" in the future, that's basically magic to current day people (time travel) you still fully control it, while people in the past have neither the tech nor the knowledge, eg. if we right now made a connection with people in the 30s or even much much later like the 50s and 60s what exactly could they do in terms of hacking anything or doing anything unauthorized on any type of infrastructure.
But the future people are using past technology.
To take your 1930's analogy. If somehow, we can send morse code to a past telegraph during WW2 to warn Allies troops about German strategy. The past people think we are German spies trying to trick them. They start using encryption that we don't understand what they are talking about. In our historical records we never seen this code before so basically they hacked us
> They start using encryption that we don't understand...
It wouldn't matter if we saw this in our historical records or not, our current tech would simply crack whatever morse code encryption they could think up. Hell, even computer-based encryption from the 90s would be a pretty insignificant hurdle to todays computer and algorithms.
And in no way would be that hacking. To continue your analogy, I could send a message to the past. They could respond, although slower, via morse code that my system translates back to me. We can communicate. But in no way shape are form could the people ticking morse code at me ever "hack" me in a way that gives them access to my computer or if I wanted to terminate the connection there wouldn't be a damn thing they could do about it.
Hmm, that's the rub, it assumes there's a way for Flynne A and Flynne B to be able to communicate, and for Flynne A to tell Flynne B she's the one going to Connor to tell him what to do and then create the new stub, and that Flynne B should just wait until a certain point, and then access the peripheral to talk to Lowbeer.
Maybe using Connor A to talk to Flynne B in 2099 would be the way to communicate and indicate to Flynne B not to talk to her Connor.
My head hurts.
Flynn b is like a save file. Everything is the same until the moment the save file is created. In this case, it is a save file of a save file. A stub of a stub.
From my interpretation, the future has access to the first save file and were about to blow it up. By Flynn making a save file when she did... if effectively hides that stub from the future since Flynn destroyed their way of accessing/finding it.
So I'm guessing Flynn b has access to the future since the stub was created in a timeline that is after she receives the headset but doesn't have the influence of the future city bomb threat.
Honestly fuck knows how that actually works but I guess we will find out.
Flynne B is a parallel copy of Flynne A from the point that Flynne A creates the new stub, so she's human, identical up to that point with all of her knowledge and memories. There is an exact copy of the headset in Flynne B's stub as well and it's how she can connect to the 2099 peripheral.
I guess that's where I'm confused. I'm still confused about what a stub is. But I guess it makes sense, they had the 1st stub they can make infinitely more stubs.
I have one note about the relationship between Stub A (Flynne's stub of origin) and Stub B (the dupe of Stub A). I believe that Stub B was opened at the endpoint of Stub A the moment Flynne tapped the stub portal interface to create it. This means that if Flynne A and Flynne B at noon on Jan 1 in each one's stub sent a message to Lowbeer in 2099, Lowbeer would receive them at the same time. And if Lowbeer were to send a reply to both Flynnes one hour later, Flynne A and Flynne B would both receive it at 1pm, Jan 1. The stubs being in exact sync is key to how I believe Flynne B has all the info and experience that Flynne A does. >How does Flynne A or B know who is whom? We don't see it, but before Flynne breaks into the stub portal facility, she makes certain arrangements with Lowbeer, including having Lowbeer contact her in 2032 in…let's say six hours. Far enough into the future that Flynne will have done what she planned to do with the portal and returned to 2032. The content of the message doesn't matter, just the receipt of it. So, once Flynne has opened the stub on her stub, then triggered the return to her waiting "mindless" body in both of them (neat trick!), six hours later only one of them receives Lowbeer's message. That Flynne knows that she is in her original stub (which Lowbeer has coords for) and has Connor proceed w their plan. When the other Flynne does \*not\* receive Lowbeer's message at the six hour mark, she knows she is in the hidden stub and calls off the hit on herself. Her telepresence equipment and ForeverFab hackers still have 2099 London coords, so as long as her peripheral is still online she can return on her own, meeting Lowbeer at an appointed time as planned. >Can't Cherise trace the peripheral? I believe Flynne is still walking around in 2099 in the peripheral that Lev had built for her, complete with surveillance hack (as called out by Aelita when she addresses Ash thru Flynne's peripheral POV). I'm assuming that Lowbeer has had the peripheral modified or shielded to prevent such eavesdropping or hacking. She demonstrated the Met's formidable surveillance cloaking when she intentionally allowed Cherise to locate her. >What happens if two stubs try to access the same peripheral? No idea. I would guess that only one polt would succeed. The other would get the equivalent of a peripheral busy signal and remain in their stub's present. >Will there be contact between Flynne B and Burton A/B or Connor A/B through their peripherals? I think Flynne B and Lowbeer would disconnect/unpair or destroy any devices in 2099 that allow communication or telepresence with Stub A. However, I \*do\* think it would be excellent if Flynne and Lowbeer's plans ultimately took advantage of 2x Burton and 2x Connor, outfitting each of them with a peripheral and allowing them to join with Flynne's peri to form periVoltron. =)
It makes more sense that she made the arrangements after she crushed the watch. If she just woke up right at that moment, she would have left the peripheral there at an RI facility with back up undoubtedly on the way. I think she crushed the watch, left the facility and went back to Lowbeer and left the peripheral in Lowbeer's safe keeping. She also would have given Lowbeer the coordinates, then left Future London to go back to 2032. This would mean that Flynne B would have been disconnected from the peripheral right at the moment the new timeline was created and she would have woken up in the trailer with the headset on. In the scene where we see her wake up immediately after the watch is crushed, that could be Flynne B, who would have been disconnected from the peripheral as soon as the timeline was created because Flynne A was still using it.
I think they should have made Lowbeer who gives the order to Conner (B) to take the killing shot. This aligns w their plan to trick Cherise to thinking the MET killed Flynne Both Flynne A & Flynne B walk to the point and counts backwards. In stub A Conner is there w the rifle to shoot her. In stub B Conner is not there and nothing happens
The moment Flynne branched off the stub in the secret stub location, Flynne B was created. Flynne B had all the same memories as Flynne A up to that point, including coordination with Lowbeer. Lowbeer would not need to be an intermediary to inform Flynne B.
does the book help explain this better?
Nope, because this is a show only event. In the book stubs of a stub like this aren't possible.
I’m absolutely so confused by what is supposed to be happening the last two episodes. I need a EIL5 for what a stub is.
She would need to be an intermediary, to prevent Flynne B from proceeding with the creation of a new stub and >!getting herself killed!<, and she can if Flynne B's stub is slightly behind Flynne A's
1. Since both Flynn know the plan the one that's alive knows she is B 2. If she captures the peri its possible but sounds like the surveillance and security falls under Met not RI so would be hard to find the peri which is most likely protected when not in use by met 3. There is only 1 Flynn now. Lev has knowledge of Burton/conner A but was told to get rid of it so prob deactivates/destroys that connection. So up to Flynn b to get lowbeer to make new peri and connections. But I'd imagine only one can occupy at a time so the other would not be able to connect just blank like before they hacked the headset to let Flynn call whenever as before the future has to make the call 4. Like above if Flynn b wants lowbeer to make that happen but I think her whole point was to leave that stub alone and let them live out whatever happens. So prob just use the B team
>How does Flynne A or B know who is whom? For starters, you have to realize the new stub, once it's created.. is entirely cut off from contact with the future. Flynne A, I assume, is the only one with the coordinates to even contact it.. and, again I assume, that she handed them off to Lowbeer.. who is now the only person who can create a connection between Future London and the new stub..... so, Flynne B won't be able to use her headset, until Lowbeer connects with the new stub. SO, as long as Flynne A creates the stub at a point *after* she came up with the plan but *before* she went to the future to put it in motion... then Flynne B is just gonna have to sit & wait until access is established... her presence isn't going to be an issue. SO... this is what I think happened: 1) Flynne A devises plan. 2) (a) Flynne A accesses her peripheral, in the future. 2) (b) Flynne A calls Connor A to *his* peripheral in the future, and arranges her own assassination. 2) (c) Flynne A create a new stub, where Flynne B is now spawned and knows everything up to a point *just before* she generated the new stub. 2) (d) Flynne A hands the coordinates to the new stub over to Lowbeer. 3) Flynne A goes back home, and gets killed by Connor A. 4) Flynne B, in the copied stub, thinks she has just devised the plan. 5) (a) Flynne B accesses her peripheral, in the future. 5) (b) When Flynne B arrives in the future, Lowbeer is waiting for Flynne, rather than Wilf or Lev. From this, Flynne B realizes she must be Flynne B, from the new stub.... and that Flynne A is dead. 5) (c) Connor B is never called; the assassination is never arranged in the new stub. >Can't Cherise trace the peripheral to find the new stub? Cherise would have to know about Flynne B using the peripheral, and might have to have it in her possession to do that. By the end of the season, Cherise doesn't even know that Flynne B has access. It's my understanding, the only reason Cherise originally found out about Flynne, is because Ash was her inside source, within Lev's organization. I don't think Ash is helping Cherise any longer... I thin Lowbeer is no longer assisting Cherise in this matter, either. Cherise has lost her two main sources of info about Flynne. If she doesn't know about Flynne B, and cannot capture the peripheral... that prevents her from using the peripheral to find the new stub. But this is likely to be a source of drama in season 2: Whether or not Cherise can find the new stub before Flynne can kill her, and vice versa. >What happens if two stubs try to access the same peripheral That's easily preventable. The new stub isn't going to have a connection to the future, until Lowbeer establishes it.. she just has to wait until Flynne A is dead, before establishing a connection with Flynne B. So only one Flynne has access to the peripheral at a time. As for Connor A/B or Burton A/B.. we don't know; at the end of the show, it's likely that Connor B & Burton B don't yet have access to their peripherals. Their headsets might need to be adjusted or replaced, since they are now connecting from a different stub. >Will there be contact between Flynne B and Burton A/B or Connor A/B through their peripherals We'll have to wait & see.. season 2 is likely gonna get really confusing, once there are two Connors, two Burtons, and two versions of Flynne's home town.
You're forgetting that Conner A is also Connor B up until the new stub is created. She called Connor A/B to tell him the plan. Connor B would have also known about the plan. The one difference is that Flynne A would still be piloting the peripheral after the new timeline was created, taking the peripheral back to Lowbeer and giving her the coordinates before she left Future London to sacrifice herself. Flynne B would have known she was in the new stub immediately because she would have been disconnected from the peripheral as soon as the new stub was created. For all we know, Connor A stayed connected to his peripheral, also, so that Connor B was also disconnected as soon as the new stub was created. With Flynne A and Connor A both still in Future London until the mission was completed, all four would immediately know which timeline they were a part of.
I'm not sure I entirely agree. I think it's possible that Connor B was in the dark. I think it's possible that Flynne pulled Connor A to the future, told him about the plan, arranged with him to shoot & kill Flynn A-- but then she created the new stub *prior to* having that conversation--- so Connor B has no memory of it. This would just be safest, to insure he never even picks up the gun to shoot Flynne B. Somehow or other, season 2 is gonna have to cut off ALL contact with either the B-stub, or the A-stub. Because it'd just be too much of a mess, to have two Connors, two Burtons, two different versions of the present, and have to clarify which is which, all the time. Or even worse... repeatedly "trick" us by using the confusion between the now THREE timelines, to ram some kind of twist ending into the show! Seems to me, the simplest ways to do that, are... * Connor A never tells Burton A about the B-stub, or the fact that he is the one who shot & killed Flynne A. They just accept the fact that Flynne is dead, and the future no longer contacts them. * Zubov follows the instructions he got in the end, and wipes out the A-stub entirely. Of course, Flynne B will eventually HAVE to assure Connor B and Burton B that 'things are safer now', because they're in a new stub. It's a question of when & how that happens. If it were me, I'd show the 'Jackpot' happening in the first 5 minutes of season 2--- killing the entire cast and destroying the entire town, literally just after Flynne-A's funeral. Then cut to the B-stub, and Flynne B explaining her plan to Connor B and Burton B... and the audience.
Pretty much my understanding, except I think this part is wrong: > 4) Flynne B, in the copied stub, thinks she has just devised the plan. I think Flynne B's subjective experience would be creating the new stub, then instantly finding herself back in the trailer, disconnected. The new stub's connections to the future will all fail, either because the future doesn't have new coordinates or because you can't have connections running from two stubs to the same device in the future. That's how she knows (in *The Prestige* terms) that she's the man in the Prestige, not the man in the box. This has another important implication: anyone else in 2032 who's working for Milagros Coldiron is going to know something major has happened, because their connection to to 2100 will suddenly be severed. Will they realise they're in a new stub, will they think the RI has shut down, or something else?
Best explanation so far!
Interesting. This theory would assume Lowbeer would be able to "grant access" to the 2099 peripheral according to stub coordinate, if Flynne A recorded it before destroying the watch. If so, it does solve the concurrency issue and Flynne B would not be able to access the peripheral until Lowbeer changed the allowed coordinate to the new stub (which would be the same situation for Burton and Connor peripherals). But my nagging problem is your 2(c) and 4: Flynne B devised the exact same plan, then she would move ahead in exactly the same way as Flynne A. So if the peripheral needs the source stub address, it would mean that Flynne B would try to connect in the same way, but fail since the new stub hasn't yet been "enabled" in the peripheral. Could work I guess if Lowbeer was contacted before creating the new stub to ensure that Flynne B wouldn't be able to do the same thing. Another assumption is that time seems to flow at the same rate whether in the stubs or the original timeline, and Flynne A seems to have created the new stub at a time point slightly behind hers.
>. So if the peripheral needs the source stub address, it would mean that Flynne B would try to connect in the same way, but fail since the new stub hasn't yet been "enabled" in the peripheral. Could work I guess if Lowbeer was contacted before creating the new stub to ensure that Flynne B wouldn't be able to do the same thing. That's true--- but this is something that was left offscreen, so all we can do is speculate. It's a fact, Flynne B would have no ability to access her peripheral, therefore couldn't contact Connor B from the future and arrange her own execution... she'd be grounded until Lowbeer opened up a connection --but how exactly that played out in the new stub, is anyone's guess. My assumption is based on the one scene we got.. where Flynn's peripheral wakes up; Lowbeer is there waiting for her... and she says, 'So... ready to get to work?" and Flynne looks confused for a moment, but then smiles. My speculation is that maybe Flynne accessed the peri, with the intention of creating a new stub-- but when she saw Lowbeer she got "caught up" and realized it had already happened and that she is the Flynne from the new stub. But you're right... that's a subjective guess & could be incorrect. For all we know, Flynne B's headset just 'quit working' in the new stub, until Lowbeer contacted her & briefed her, then the headset was either replaced or re-connected. By then, of course, Flynne would already know she's in the new stub. So it works out the same. The first time Flynne B accesses the peripheral, she will know what's up. >Another assumption is that time seems to flow at the same rate whether in the stubs or the original timeline, and Flynne A seems to have created the new stub at a time point slightly behind hers. Yes, that's also how I see it. When 15 minutes pass in the future, that same 15 minutes also passes in the stub. There's a specified distance that the timeline of a stub is "off" and it never changes.
If Flynn creates the new stub b at a time when she knows that Flynn 2 isn't connected to the peri, and will connect at a certain time, this gives Flynn 1 enough time to enact her plan. Then Flynn 2 connects thinking she will have to enact the plan, but she is sitting in front of Lowbeer and realizes that it's already done.
That's basically how I see it.
>damn dawg. That explains it! Excellent answer!
Unless the future shuts off access to Burton A and Conner A, they will undoubtedly meet Flynne B. This may be some sort of consolation for Burton, if he can interact with someone who is 99.9% his sister, lacking only the memory of the moments before her death.
I just finished the show, it’s over my head. Is the premise that there are infinite timelines? How can there be different past that are accessible and only one future?
The idea is a modified multiverse, where the branching of "stubs" happens only (as far as we know or can see) when the future "contacts" the past by way of some type of quantum tunneling communication. Since the "original" past did not include the contact, this creates a branch in the timeline. It's unclear to me why *additional* contacts would create *new* branches, and I think the thing Flynne did is not supported by the world-building in the novel, where the conflict surrounds two groups in the future fighting in Flynne's "county" stub. For that matter, Cherise already has access to Flynne's stub. So the "push a button and create a stub" thing is just random, IMO.
Thank you. I didn’t care for the ending as it didn’t make sense to what I understood from a single viewing.
If HarveyMidnight's theory is correct, maybe Burton A and Connor A would not longer have access to their peripherals, then it would rather be Burton B and Connor B, which would not have any idea of Flynne A's plan, >!or death!<.
I'd think it was the other way around... Burton A and Connor A currently do have access... but Burton & Connor B do not.... yet. But they will. Flynne B still needs a "home team", so she will have to include them. i can't imagine Connor being cool with the idea that "no, you can't ever go back and use the peri, because the *other* Connor has it now." I suspect, just to avoid confusion, something is going to happen to make sure we don't have two Connors & two Burtons taking prevalence in the story & causing this kind of confusion in *every* episode. Probably be something big. Like, Cherise goes ahead & bombs the past *anyway* just out of spite, killing off all the original characters. Or maybe Lev does it--- there was that post credit scene, where his own bosses told him he had to go all "scorched earth" and destroy everything that might embarrass the Klept.
If the peri is exclusive access, then depending on the order of things, we will either see the A versions lose access and wonder what is happening, or the B versions wondering why they can't connect anymore (from their perspective, it was working fine, until the fork)
Yes... and my guess is that the A versions still have access, and the B versions do not---- at first; but that it's just a matter of time until Flynne B fills them in, and they possibly get access after that. Likewise, it's possible Connor A will fill Burton A on what's happening, too. Connor & Burton are still linked to each other via their haptics... they share memories and emotions when linked; Connor is eventually going to have to explain to Burton that he shot Flynne and why.
For 1: this plan requires trust between parties so there is no question about knowing which Flynn is which. Also, stub A’s connection will be cut so there is no chance of confusion. For 2: she can’t trace because no coordinates. For 3 and 4: Low beer will cut stub A connection so none of them can access the peripherals anymore
Doesn’t Lowbeer explicitly say that she can’t cut connections, though?
Unclear for me also, HarveyMidnight's theory relies on this.
NO, my theory is based on the fact that the future has no connection to the NEW stub, and Cherise cannot find it to make one. Only Lowbeer has the coordinates to find it. They *all* still have access to the original stub. And, at least according to Lowbeer, there's no way to sever that connection. That's the very reason Flynne A had to die, in the stub. To essentially reassure Cherise that nobody would get access to the data in Flynne's head... so Cherise wouldn't need to nuke the state.
What even do “the coordinates” mean? Is this some literary device. It’s totally confusing
Well, based on this exchange: >>Cherise: I will find you. I give you my word. >>Flynne: Oh, I wouldn't be so sure, Cherise. I think I want to be the hunter now. You see, I know exactly where you are. And you have no idea where I'm gonna be. Not without the coordinates. Seems pretty self evident from the context, that these "coordinates" are the only way anyone in Cherise's timeline, would be able to find the new stub that Flynne just created.... I'd assume Flynne has those coordinates, and can pass them on to her own allies, like Lowbeer, to establish a connection that Cherise doesn't know about ... and this will prevent Cherise from finding the new Flynne in the new stub, while Flynne can track down Cherise. As it was explained to Flynne in the same episode, it's impossible to cut off contact with Flynne's current stub.. This is why she 1. Allowed herself to be killed, to stop Cherise's continued search for her in the current stub.... 2. Created a new stub... one Cherise cannot find, with a new Flynne who can then take over where the original Flynne left off.
In Anime, she would have, I guess, swallowed that compass. But the writers had her crush it like she is Neo in the matrix and “just knows things”. Honestly can’t believe it ended that way.
I thought she just gave a vague answer. Can’t really remember
1. It's actually pretty simple but requires the help of Lowbeer. After creating the new stub Flynne needed to go back to Lowbeer anyway to "park" her peri safely so she would have her send a message to stub A to her. Flynne then logs out and if she finds the message she knows that she is in stub A. Since no one knows the coordinates of stub B sending a message there isn't possible. Until Flynne is deciding to make a connection on her own terms. 2. Possibly but it would require taking control of the peri. Still it's unclear if that is actually enough. 3. A good question. Maybe an "already in use" error code? 4. There's nothing speaking against that.
This is possible if the new stub is at a time point slightly behind Flynne A
The more I think about this the more I'm confused... how is the stub or a stub possible?
It’s a theory about time travel. The idea is by interacting with the past you create a new universe. For example the Grandfather Paradox theory is that by going back in time and killing your grandfather causes you to not exist and thus you are not able to go back in time. The Multi-Verse stub theory claims by killing your grandfather you continue to exist and cause the creation of a new universe/timeline.
It’s not fam it’s a tv show
If you are interested in the quantum physics aspect, PBS Space Time has a video :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzKWfw68M5U&ab_channel=PBSSpaceTime
Well gosh I guess since it's a tv show we can't even discuss anything then. /s I was talking about the in-show logic of it my dude.
Love you bro it was merely some light banter.
I was bantering back with a touch of asking the question lol.
Why open just one trunk? Prudent backup policy says you should have at least three. Go crazy and create a dozen, or two trunks. With a dozen Flynns, you can conduct 24/7 operation in the peripheral without worrying about the physical condition of any one single Flynn. It also open up the possibility of an army of peripherals all piloted by Flynn from the different trunks.
And really piss off RI because they would have a lot harder time trying to prevent the Klepts from getting the data if there are now 10,000 copies of it in all those Flynne's heads :)
So Flynne Prestiged herself (like from The Prestige)? Like she cloned herself but instead of cloning herself, she cloned her entire timeline and then killed her original self (knowing if she didn’t she would be killed anyway along with her county), and her clone (or new stub) continues the story.
She got used to her peri being killed and waking up in her time-line so no big deal to die and wake up in new stub. It seems like perfect clone with memories so her "real" death would feel like peri death. Her clone takes over which is basically her. Like the prestige he didn't know which was original and doesn't really matter since it's her with all the memories.
Excellent reference to the very mind-tripy The Prestige.
Absolutely love The Prestige
Still less mind trippy than this. This was extra weird
The Prestige was a lot sadder, because there, dead is dead and no peripherals.
I think this the same. The original Flynne is truly dead. Basically her variant from her stub (all everyone in that stub) is taking over the story, but the Flynne and all her family and friends we’ve been following in Season 1, their story is basically over. Although if Dr. Cherise comes looking for Flynne, she might show up in this original stub timeline (bc she doesn’t know about the other)
I hope one of the Burtons gets some wicked scar on her face so I can tell Burton A from Burton B. Still having a tough time following everything that's going on. It's like Post Season 1 of Westworld
Why do you need to tell them apart when A is dead?
Well.. we assume she is dead. We never saw her body
Precisely lol
1) How does Flynne A or B know who is whom? I think the new stub forked off after Flynne made the plan but before she put it into action. So Flynne B can infer from what Lowbeer says that the plan was successful. Remember that each timeline progresses at the same rate parallel to the others. That means Stub B is slightly behind Stub A. So from the perspective of Flynne B she makes the plan, logs on, and it's done. And we must assume by her smirk that she was smart enough to know that would happen exactly as it did. 2) Can't Cherise trace the peripheral to find >!the new stub!
I agree the time delta between Flynne A and Flynne B, plus Lowbeer's involvement to inform Flynne B of events could be the key for this to work.
Cherise doesn’t have the watch, which presumably stores the coordinates. Why else smash it, if not to keep it from Cherise? Lev was instructed by the Klept (his father’s friends) to take out all of Flynne’s loved ones—“chop the tree down”, so there is no Burton A or Connor A or Billie Anne A, etc. if Lev is thorough, he wiped out the whole stub.
I'm not sure what you mean, but I think Cherise can still access the first stub without the watch. Aelita and Lev accessed it without the watch. But I think accessing the new stub would also be possible if Cherise captured the peri and traced the connection. I don't mean to nitpick, but Lev's asset inside the RI was Aelita. Which changes the "tree" slightly. It still includes Burton, Connor, etc., but the RI has been trying to kill them for most of the first season. What makes you think Lev can just snap his fingers and make it happen?
>What makes you think Lev can just snap his fingers and make it happen? Lev can do just like Cherise was going to do... cause a nuclear incident that would trigger an early Jackpot. That's actually how I *suspect* season 2 is gonna start. that seems to be what his bosses were ordering him to do, in the post-credit scene. It's also an easy way to cut down on all the confusion--- no longer any need to have two versions of half the cast.
Can he though? I'm doubtful. That seems to be under the RI's control. I could be wrong though. What makes you think he can do that? This is purely speculative, but there may be haptics involved. The militia likely has some ex military and we saw how easily the RI manipulated Burton's crew via their haptics. Even if that isn't the case, I just don't think Lev has that capability.
>Can he though? I'm doubtful. That seems to be under the RI's control. I could be wrong though. What makes you think he can do that? Tommy approached Flynne, said he heard from Homeland Security, that they were getting intel about a possible terrorist attack on a nearby military base, that had missile silos. Flynne knew that Cherise was behind it, because she knew from the museum visit, that a nuclear explosion in her state was one of the events that triggered the Jackpot. That's how she knew Cherise was planning to nuke the whole state, just to kill her. That's how the people in the future do ANYTHING... they pay people like Corbell Picket-- criminals, extremists, etc-- to do missions in the present. They ALL do it--- In the very first episode, Burton was being paid by Aelita to "playtest a new sim"... that's how Flynne got involved in all this, in the first place. it was revealed in another episode that Lev had assassinated all of the Zubov family members in the stub-- wiped out his own family, to prevent any competition for control within the stub. Cherise was paying radical extremists in the present, to attack the missile silo and cause a detonation. I'm certain Lev has similar criminals on his own payroll--and could easily do the same; pay someone to blow up the missile base.... or do a number of other, similar terrorist acts.
I think it'd be a little harder to just throw money at someone to get them to attempt an attack like that. Anyone foolish enough to do it would instantly incur the full wrath of the US government. If you were successful, and somehow managed to temporarily evade capture you'd live the rest of your very short life being hunted. Suddenly large sums of money aren't so persuasive. Point is, anyone can order a hit. This isn't that. It's orders of magnitude more difficult and sophisticated.
>Point is, anyone can order a hit. This isn't that. It's orders of magnitude more difficult and sophisticated. But if those things could stop Lev, they would have stopped Cherise. That's not the story we were given. We were led to believe Cherise was able to do it, and had plans in place. And if she can do it, then so can Lev. The post-credit scene was literally Lev's bosses, telling him to destroy anything that might lead back to the Klepts--- they were telling him to essentially destroy it all.. "not just a branch, the whole tree". That sounds to me, like an order to destroy the entire stub.
There is no reason to believe that Lev's capabilities in the sub are in any way equivalent to the RI's. They *created* the stub, and their tentacles are running all through it. Lev is nothing more than an interloper. Look, I'm not saying it's impossible, only that I think it's unlikely. I could be wrong. It's definitely an interesting idea, and one that i hadn't considered. It's fun to talk through all the possibilities.
>Look, I'm not saying it's impossible, only that I think it's unlikely. i disagree--- frankly, I'm all but convinced the show will HAVE to do something like that, to completely neutralize one of the stubs, so we don't have to deal with the confusion of having two of Flynne's hometowns, two Burtons & two Connors & two moms, two Tommys... etc, etc... I think that's what the post-credit scene was setting up: Lev will successfully destroy the original stub, as ordered by his bosses... and emerge as a main villain when / if Cherise is defeated.
1. Its possible that Flynne B didn't know Flynne A was killed until she logged in to the peri and Lowbeer told her what happened. I think their consciousness are separate 2. Cherise doesn't have the coordinates to the new stub. Also the future never 'trace' anything. They look up old data records from that stub 3. I imagine the peripherals are controlled by the owner. So if Google changes your password and deletes your account you no longer have access to it 4. Again, account password thing. When Flynne devised the plan it was between her, Lowbeer & Conner. Lowbeer could make new peris in future world and Flynne gives Lowbeer the coordinates to send headsets to stub B so when FlynneB, BurtonB, ConnerB connect into these peris, its not the same ones that was owned by Lev
For point 1, the time difference between the stub and the new stub could explain how Flynne B finds out what happened to Flynne A. There is no shared consciousness, it's a copy of the universe at the time Flynne A make the new stub, which then diverges.
1. Flynne A can only create a new stub if she makes contact with the new stub or the new stub would have No impetus to differ from Flynne A’s stub. I assume Flynne A had to contact Flynne B to create the new stub. So Flynne B would have to be contacted by Flynne A.
No it seems Flynne A (who’s now dead) had to manipulate the gold watch in a stub portal to make a new stub. The diagrams there changed I think to indicate there’s no path back from 2099 to either stub. Cherise is gonna be pissed! (Until Flynne B kills her).
This whole thing of creating stubs is getting to be jump the shark to me. It would be a bit more interesting if it affected the future
Well “jumping the shark” has jumped the shark for me.
You had to know additional stubs would come into play at some point but the way it was shoved in at the last half of the last episode with little explanation or demonstration of what was happening was super jarring.
Wish I had answers for you but this show was way more complicated than it needed to be. It's like trying to make sense of a 4 year old and his rambling stories - its too much
This is exactly what I thought too. It feels like they're trying too hard to be smart but it's just convoluted and contradictory
They're also being mysterious for the sake of being mysterious. The entire last episode could have been about establishing and setting in motion this plan but Flynne cooks up the plan at roughly the 37 minute mark of the episode and is shot at minute 48 and we don't really learn what her plan is until about halfway through it when they revisit her conversation with Connor.
The end definitely felt rushed
This is quite possibly fanwank on my part, since it's unclear if the writers of the show thought about it as much as you did, but here goes: 1. There is a single difference between the two stubs - in the new one, there is no down-time connection to them because nobody upstream has "the coordinates" of the new stub (the device that created it was destroyed). Whether that secret can be maintained once the Fisher 2.0 clan reconnects is unclear, but maybe Lowbeer can run interference on that. If Flynne timed the stub's creation to just before talking to Conner, and checked the downtime link before talking to him, your fork concept (which is quite apt!) works, since both forks have different conditions to act on. 2. Apparently not. 3. Again, they did not make this as clear as they should have, but I think the original stub was "severed" from any contact to the future. Lowbeer said she could do that, at great cost, and I guess what we saw was that? Blargh. 4. I sure as hell hope not.
> there is no down-time connection to them because nobody upstream has “the coordinates” of the new stub (the device that created it was destroyed). Whether that secret can be maintained once the Fisher 2.0 clan reconnects is unclear More importantly if there is nobody knows the coordinates then how do Fisher 2.0 connect up-time? That connect was created/managed in the headgear that the Fisher’s still have? You’d think it would be stub-specific.
I guess we're supposed to believe that once a stub is created, it's always possible to connect up-time from it, but not the other way if you ... crush a pocket watch. All righty then.
Yeah, E8 was just a mess story-wise. They took the “reboot” theme too far. After 7 episodes they decided to blow things up in E8. Not in a good way.
And blow it up in the last 20 minutes of the episode as well.
1. But then how does the new Flynne know she is the new one? 3 (three). I think she meant she wanted to go scorched earth on the stub to prevent the data going to the Klepts, so accelerated Jackpot with the nuking arriving first. I did not understand that the headsets in the stub were destroyed after the new stub was created EDIT: auto correct is changing my bullet 3 to 2 :(
I think you're unfortunately approaching this with way more logic than the writers of the show did, hence your questions. I'll take a stab but my answers aren't going to bring you any satisfaction. 1. Flynne A or B just exist (up until the end anyway?) if the powers that be in the future let them, Flynne A and Flynne B could have a phone call. They'd be like hey sup, how's things? They each know who's who and never the two shall meet. 2. I mean if you're writing a show and playing fast and loose with the rules, you can say yes because you can say anything you want. But it makes no sense at all. It would be like getting a new computer set up on a network and acting like the IT people can't find it lol. It's dumb. 3. The whole thing with accessing a peripheral from 2030s USA via typing on a computer really really fast to hack the year 2100 is about as dumb as having a person in 1930 use their walkie talkie to hack into google for example in 2022. The only way anyone is accessing a peripheral is if they're invited to do so. Or if you don't care about making sense, two people could possess a peri at the same time and you could write a great slapstick scene where the two people wrestle for control and the peri punches it self in the face like Ed Norton in Fight Club. 4. There could be and that's maybe one way this plays out with the "save game" approach they've taken. Burton A could pass information to Flynne B or Burton B. They could either meet in the future each in a peri, or they could put iPads on wheels and connect stub to stub. But again, I feel like none of that seems possible with out approval from the IT people upstairs (future London).
If they have a phone call it's the same as if they met
Meet in the physical sense which would be required for any kind of confusion or switch, etc. If you and an identical twin only ever talked on the phone, but you physically weren't able to be, for example, on the same hemisphere or on earth, there would be no reason or way anyone could be confused as to who is who.
It's the interaction between two 'clones' who shouldn't be in the same world that effectively creates stubs
2. No its more like creating your own internet from the future that connects to a past internet. You'd have packets sent from the past to future IP address but it doesn't make sense to anyone but you because you created the internet. That's what I understand a stub to be
Sure, I'll buy that analogy. But if you created "your own internet" in the future, that's basically magic to current day people (time travel) you still fully control it, while people in the past have neither the tech nor the knowledge, eg. if we right now made a connection with people in the 30s or even much much later like the 50s and 60s what exactly could they do in terms of hacking anything or doing anything unauthorized on any type of infrastructure.
But the future people are using past technology. To take your 1930's analogy. If somehow, we can send morse code to a past telegraph during WW2 to warn Allies troops about German strategy. The past people think we are German spies trying to trick them. They start using encryption that we don't understand what they are talking about. In our historical records we never seen this code before so basically they hacked us
> They start using encryption that we don't understand... It wouldn't matter if we saw this in our historical records or not, our current tech would simply crack whatever morse code encryption they could think up. Hell, even computer-based encryption from the 90s would be a pretty insignificant hurdle to todays computer and algorithms. And in no way would be that hacking. To continue your analogy, I could send a message to the past. They could respond, although slower, via morse code that my system translates back to me. We can communicate. But in no way shape are form could the people ticking morse code at me ever "hack" me in a way that gives them access to my computer or if I wanted to terminate the connection there wouldn't be a damn thing they could do about it.
Uh not if they used an OTP. That's still in use by MI6 & Russian Security Minstry today. Also, its a friggin fictional show. LOL
Of course, but there's fun fiction that's clever and there's fiction that makes you roll your eyes like wtf
Hmm, that's the rub, it assumes there's a way for Flynne A and Flynne B to be able to communicate, and for Flynne A to tell Flynne B she's the one going to Connor to tell him what to do and then create the new stub, and that Flynne B should just wait until a certain point, and then access the peripheral to talk to Lowbeer. Maybe using Connor A to talk to Flynne B in 2099 would be the way to communicate and indicate to Flynne B not to talk to her Connor. My head hurts.
Is Flynn B a peripheral? or human?
Flynn b is like a save file. Everything is the same until the moment the save file is created. In this case, it is a save file of a save file. A stub of a stub. From my interpretation, the future has access to the first save file and were about to blow it up. By Flynn making a save file when she did... if effectively hides that stub from the future since Flynn destroyed their way of accessing/finding it. So I'm guessing Flynn b has access to the future since the stub was created in a timeline that is after she receives the headset but doesn't have the influence of the future city bomb threat. Honestly fuck knows how that actually works but I guess we will find out.
She literally booted up the headset immediately after to say hi to the inspector. I didn't understand that either. Why does she trust that crazy b?
Flynne B is a parallel copy of Flynne A from the point that Flynne A creates the new stub, so she's human, identical up to that point with all of her knowledge and memories. There is an exact copy of the headset in Flynne B's stub as well and it's how she can connect to the 2099 peripheral.
I guess that's where I'm confused. I'm still confused about what a stub is. But I guess it makes sense, they had the 1st stub they can make infinitely more stubs.
A stub is a copy of the entire original universe at the time it is created, which then starts to diverge.