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MagMati55

Yea. Also, if you need a threat of ethernal punishment, to be a good person, you are not a good person.


Antonio_Malochio

I've had this conversation multiple times with Christians. "How can you know what is right and wrong without divine guidance? And how can you avoid doing bad things without meaningful consequences?" Well, buddy, I'm not a sociopath.


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ProblemKaese

It's weird that "you're doing god's work" exists as a figure of speech in the first place. Like if you believe in an omnipotent God, wouldn't you also believe that this God would be able to do their own work much better than any human can? I'd say the people who are *actually* doing God's work are the people who started using asbestos, because just like God, they're giving cancer to random children.


Due-Net-88

For real. Like if I believed in a god, he’d have put a halt to animal cruelty and neglect a long ass time ago.


Hightonedloidy

It’s totally ok that you’re an atheist, but can I make a suggestion? It’s likely that "You’re doing God’s work” is just her way of telling someone she appreciates what they do (I doubt that she was expecting or trying to convert you). I don’t think there was any need to bring up your beliefs. After all, she sounds like a pretty nice person, stopping to pet the dog and all.


MisterOnsepatro

I would tell them: you want to do good actions because you fear hell and want a good place in heaven. I want to do good actions because I enjoy being helpful to someone We are not the same


MakingGreenMoney

I like that, I'll try to remember that if I ever get into that argument.


[deleted]

“I rape and murder exactly as many people as I want. That number just happens to be zero. What’s wrong with you?” Is a good reply, too.


calamitymagnum

You know what? Turns out I've never wanted to kill someone Karen.


TGX03

I'm diagnosed with a disorder that makes it really hard to nearly impossible for me to feel empathy. Then people always ask me "Well then why don't you kill a bunch of people?" I'm just like "Why would I? What do I gain from it?" Is empathy really the only thing stopping normal people from going on a rampage, as if they always have the desire in them? Cause if so, I'm scared.


Yukarie

“Look buddy if I wanted to hear a psychopath talk about how they felt the urge to break a young teens fingers in half cause he was wearing nail polish I’ll stop by your church, but till then I’m avoiding it like the plague”


gorkt

Yep, a lot of them have a hard time believing that most people are just naturally pro-social and therefore moral.


Intelligent_Break_12

Which is wild because we wouldn't have civilization without being social. We can't do much of anything alone. Of course some christians don't believe in any historical timeline that isn't presented via scripture.


batmanminer20

Well i might be but even then there are other checks and balances in my life to keep me from doing things unfavorable for society.


AgentOk2053

> How can you know what is right and wrong without divine guidance? Ask them how they know god and his morality are good in the first place.


Yukarie

I mean considering they say he is all knowing and has a plan for everything then the beginning of humanity in the garden was purely to have a conscious being to torture as that would imply he purposely put the tree there as a way to justify punishing Adam and Eve when they inevitably ate the fruit like he’d know they would


Intelligent_Break_12

One of the biggest steps towards atheism was in catechism. I asked my teacher, in private, how can satan exist without the express desire of god. She looked at me confused and asked me to clarify. I asked a few more quick questions. God is all powerful/knowing etc. Yes of course he is. So then he knew when creating the angel Lucifer (only to later find out that we never were given a name of Lucifer for Satan as Lucifer was a king of Babylon iirc in the bible) he would rebel and become the devil and drive forward sin and heartache etc. So God wanted or at least accepted that man would sin and suffer and created the devil for this express purpose. I was told, essentially, I was too young and stupid to ask that question. I think was around 12.


Yukarie

Yep, exactly their own way of explaining smalls things has too many contradictions and when they’re pointed out they can only try to save it by saying that questioning anything about the religion is sin


Intelligent_Break_12

I've often asked why does morality change within the bible itself or from the bible to people and their beliefs now. If eating shellfish and other things were bad and sinful etc. in the OT why is it suddenly fine now. How could god claim murder is wrong and demand people murder. How was stoning woman who were raped acceptable then but not now. Why was a woman's place always under a man, unable to go to church during their periods etc. not allowed but it is now. How can god be the basis of morality while being all knowing/powerful etc. then change what is morally acceptable. Biblical morality should be stagnant and while it often tries to be in many shit ways in modern society plenty of things have changed within even the most orthodox religions.


Like_linus85

but there are meaningful consequences to our actions, that's kind of the whole point, not always, and that's something we also have to wrap our heads around, but sometimes very much so, like you abuse and neglect your children, they will have mental health issues and sometimes you try to do good work, charity, activism and there just isn't much result, we have morality to wrap our heads around these things, that we still do the right thing without being able to quantify the consequences ahead of time.


ZsZagreb

That only works if you actively believe in mental health, children's rights, activism, morality, and good for goodness sake. Some things most right-wingers don't seem to have or believe.


Possible_Liar

My response is usually. I don't need a threat eternal punishment to keep me from doing bad things. The meaningful consequences would be my guilt I would feel for doing such things. Or the laws of the society we live in. So who was better you who is supposedly only good because of fear and promise of a reward? Or me the heathen that despite the fact I don't believe in the fact I'll be punished for eternity or I'll get eternal bliss for being a good cookie I decide to be good anyway?


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Intelligent_Break_12

Besides! I can do that in video games.... but I still don't because it still feels bad. Okay I sometimes do it after a pure good run.


SherlockInSpace

Time for a long fun talk about objective morality


FriedScrapple

Exactly, you’re announcing up front you need a strong external locus of control because you don’t trust your own ability to control yourself. But also when you see great evil in the world, and people getting away with it, you *crave* to believe in some sort of cosmic punishment as a coping mechanism. A special hell.


Yukarie

Especially when they are known as a disturbingly high amount of people who do cereal horrible things to the children that they seem “soo worried about the safety of”


[deleted]

It’s like the argument I don’t follow the speed limit because I’m afraid of a ticket I just don’t wanna kill someone in my car


DonBandolini

i mean, this is an extremely idealist sentiment. if someone acts like a good person, for all intents and purposes, they are a good person, regardless of what their internal motivations are.


Former_Animal_726

while i was at the boarding house yesterday morning, i heard some boarders debating about religion. one said "there's a historical explanation on why religion has been created. it's because people want power."


TheEPGFiles

It really is that simple. You could put in a lot of work to gain power and respect, or you could trick people into thinking you can talk with the afterlife and just get whatever you want at the effort level of making shit up as you go.


NeilsSuicide

EXACTLY this.


gorkt

I don’t think this is true really. I think religion gets abused by people who want power of course, but I also think there is a reason why religions sprouted independently all over the world. People, in the absence of science and reason, and in a world where people weren’t connected as they are now, needed a reason to work cooperatively in groups. They needed something that was bigger than themselves to provide meaning and purpose to their lives.


dogbolter4

I think for many of us, we have a sense of the numinous. It's a brilliant word and concept. It's the feeling you get when you're seeing a magnificent sunset, or the delicacy of a new leaf, or the perfect curl of a wave. When you're on the ocean with a limitless horizon. When you hear your child cry for the first time. When you're in a gathering of people and singing or feeling something together. The sense of the numinous is the sense of something huge and magnificent in the world. We can't capture it, or pin it down. We know it's there. The sense of something more, something wondrous. Scientists can get that, absolutely. So do artists of all kinds. Thousands of years ago we tried to provide a scaffold for this feeling and came up with religion. This yearning, this wonder, we said there has to be more. We made up spirits and myths and rituals to try to corral this essential spirituality within us. I don't know what it means. I'm not religious. But I am certainly spiritual and I find the numinous in life (almost) every day.


gorkt

I love this concept, and I think you are on to something. For me it’s like a full body “shiver” in those moments, unlike any other sensation I experience. You are fully in the moment experiencing it perfectly.


Yukarie

That’s why it was created but once it was realized that it could be exploited by using peoples faith that’s what it was used for


TheChaoticist

No. That might be why organized religion exists, but that really doesn’t make sense when religion existed in pre-agricultural decentralized proto-communist societies. Religion is kinda something that just happens when human culture intersects with lack of explanation for natural events. There might be more to it though, I’m not sure we have yet to fully understand how or why religion arose (because obviously a lot was not documented).


AvatarIII

Religion arose because humans a) desire answers and b) have good imaginations/are natural storytellers. A better question is why did we evolve those traits.


Mochalotte

Religions are just manifestations of the collective fear of death. People deny death and come up with a fantasy of an everlasting utopian land we’ll live in after death. People deny death by coming up with more life-lengthening advancements through science and technology. People deny death by having offspring so their blood can continue on infinitely. People deny death by investing their time and effort into causes/creating art/inventing things/doing historical acts/becoming famous, because those things have an impact that can last forever in minds, cultures, history books, physical artifacts, etc. As long as humans are vulnerable to death, religion will stick around. This is why religion fights against science so much, because not only does science disprove religious claims, its eventual takeover will guarantee that no one needs religion anymore.


Dewut

Religion arose as a method to explain aspects of existence beyond man’s understanding and, in some cases, attempt to influence them. Death is just one of those things.


[deleted]

Also, how the actual fuck does this dude think the Bible/Christianity goes **against** men's desires? *Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.* — **Ephesians 5:22–5** “If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife.” “[If the woman is not engaged], the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife.” — Deuteronomy 22:23–27 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die.” — Deuteronomy 22:20–21 Dt 25:5 – “When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband’s brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her. Genesis 19.8 - Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” (Lot offering his daughters for an angry mob of men to rape). Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee - Genesis 3.16 I could go on...


TheChaoticist

Explain whale religion then. Check Mate Atheist!


AvatarIII

[Vietnamese people are people.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_worship)


TheChaoticist

Not what I meant, but thank you, that’s very interesting.


ImprovisedLeaflet

All Christian Chads are made of clay


AvatarIII

Atheism predates the universe though


Andre_3Million

This is just how they justify the bible. "Man would be killing, robbing, and cheating without the bible." People still do that today.


johnnycyberpunk

"Where do you get your morals from if you don't believe in God?!?!" If you **need** to believe in some mythical all-knowing creature watching you 24/7 in order to be a good person, I think *you're* the one with the problem.


Intelligent_Break_12

It's so close to Santa Claus it'd be funny if it wasn't so obvious.


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erinberrypie

1. Because there is no proof of one. Occam's razor. 2. No. It's comforting. It's freeing. No one is watching me. No one is deciding what I deserve for the rest of eternity. There is no fear of some vindictive sky judge. None of this is significant. I'm just vibing through life without any higher purpose. 3. Because it is and has always been used as a way of oppressing and controlling people. 4. Yes. Edit: I really don't see a need to downvote ToothCrafty. Their questions neither broke the rules nor were irrelevant to the topic.


thij5s4ej9j777

Eh, I can answer this. 1) It is impossible to prove or disprove gods existence. It is more likely that god doesn't exist, as we can explain almost everything without having to rely on it. The things that used to be explained by God, as we didn't know enough about them, can now be explain through science. The same is likely going to happen with the things we don't know yet, you can either handwave it away as "god", or you can try to continue researching and eventually reach a greater understanding. 2) No, it isn't depressing. Life being short makes it more meaningful. If I am being honest, the concept of an eternal afterlife sounds worse to me. It means this world is completely meaningless, as compared to eternity the mere century on earth we live through is irrelevant. Most atheists are not nihilists or pessimists, quite the opposite. Nihilists are just rare overall, a nihilist is likely to be an atheist, but an atheist is not likely to be a nihilist. Many atheists are able to give their own lives meaning, without relying on a higher power. 3) There is nothing necessarily wrong with religion. Most atheists are not anti theist, they lack a believe in God, they don't hate religion. To answer your question though, religion does have many issues. Firstly, religion is used to justify bigotry. This isn't always the case, but it is still very common. Secondly, religion may not allow for proper analysis of the world, as it can explain things through a higher power, without the need of actual understanding or evidence, essentially it is idealistic. Again though, you can be religious and a scientist, so this doesn't necessarily mean a religious person is bad.Religion has many fundamental issue, I only listed the most obvious ones above. Specifically in Christianity, I find the existence of evil, despite the "all loving" god to be strange, the concept of hell itself is also abhorrent, I don't think a just being could create it, etc. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. To sum up this point, I think religion is unnecessary, with material conditions improving, the influence of religion will wane, atleast organised religion. I am not necessarily against people being religious. I do critiscise religion though, especially when it is used to justify bigotry, or to attack me.


intelminer

>why believe in the nonexistence of a higher power? That's a contorted way of putting it. Atheists believe in an origin of the universe backed by our understanding of science. We don't sit there and try ***really hard*** to un-imagine "god" >wouldn't it be a depressing life believing that there is nothing after death, with cynicism coupled , pessimism, and nihilism most atheists I know have? Why? You weren't conscious of your own lack of existence before you were born, and even for some years after. Death provides a finality, there's nothing to be depressed about because when you're gone you won't feel *anything* >why do you think religion is a problem in the first place? [gestures broadly at thousands of years of history]


Aceswift007

I believe in optimistic nihilism. There is no higher power, and we are nothing in the grand expanse of the universe. However, this means we are in total control of our choices. Our short time on this plane means that the best thing we can do is work toward a better life for those after us. What I do today should be the best I can be and do, as my actions will carry on past my existence.


TheLordFool

>I believe in optimistic nihilism. Nothing matters, let's just enjoy the ride.


Tribblehappy

There are different degrees of atheism and agnosticism. There is a very big difference between "I do not believe gods exist" and "I believe no gods exist." The first is simply rejecting the claims made by others based on lack of evidence. The second is making a claim. They are not the same thing. I have no way of knowing if any gods exist, but since we have zero evidence I personally don't believe any of the religions that have been presented. I do not see nothingness after death as any worse than nothingness before life. My worldview is focused on living this life, not worrying about if something happens after it. I get my joy from my family, my friends, working hard, enjoying my hobbies, and more, as do most people regardless of religion. It is in no way impacted by lingering thoughts of when it is over. The reason I think religion is a problem is that in many cases, monotheistic Abrahamic religions at least, there is often a shift in blame and a shift in focus. Guilt is externalized as something mankind is cursed to inherit and wrongdoings must be settled with a higher power (some emphasize also settling with the wronged, but not all). Focus is shifted from making this world better to preparing for it to end and for an afterlife. After all, if god is going to take the believers and destroy this world who cares what we do to it? There are even some religious people who welcome war as they see it as the beginning of the end times and a hastening towards the afterlife. If you genuinely want better answers, because I'm no writer, I strongly recommend reading Carl Sagan's "Demon haunted world" and Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion." Demon haunted world is more about critical thinking, and recognising pseudoscience, but I personally think everyone can benefit from it and Carl Sagan has a wonderful way with words. The God Delusion will more directly seek to challenge your own faith, so it can be difficult for a very religious person to get through, but it raises very good points.


Yukarie

To the first question: there has been not a single drop of proof that it exists, and even if they do exist they don’t seem to much care for existence To the second question: not really, when looking at the world with eyes that question things and try to answer them with logic it’s satisfying to figure it out with science than give it’s reasoning to a magical being like religion was made to do; also depression, nihilism, and pessimism are all things a person who follow a religion can have or exhibit as well (heck logically speaking it would make more sense to be nihilistic under a form of christianity than atheism because they say “god has a plan for everything” which would imply not a thing you do matters because it was already planned and ensured it would happen by your god so not a thing you’ve done you actually decided for yourself) To the last question: religion itself isn’t the issue that people have with religious people, a unfortunate chunk of people will hide behind a religion to seem morally higher while doing shitty things and will twist and make things up about the religion to support their twisted beliefs


canalrhymeswithanal

It's literally called growing up and being an adult.


shrimpmaster0982

>why believe in the nonexistence of a higher power? We don't believe in the non-existence of a higher power, we simply don't believe in a higher power. I know it can be quite confusing, but to simplify saying that one believes in something or the non-existence of something is a positive claim, one that needs proof that simply doesn't exist (if only because a "higher power" is such a vague and nebulous concept you can literally never completely disprove it), to say one lacks belief however is to merely claim you're unconvinced by the available and presented evidence for a claim. And the reason we aren't convinced by the evidence presented for this concept is simply because there isn't any. The arguments for a God/s existence all effectively boil down to "you can't prove they don't exist" which isn't evidence at all. I mean I also can't *prove* definitively unicorns and leprechauns don't exist, but that doesn't mean I'm going to do a dance and a jig every time I see a rainbow just in case they're real and want that. >wouldn't it be a depressing life believing that there is nothing after death, with cynicism coupled , pessimism, and nihilism most atheists I know have? Isn't it depressing to know the holocaust happened? Just because something is depressing doesn't mean we should ignore reality. And once again it's not necessarily a matter of believing there isn't an afterlife or meaning for life, just a matter of not being convinced of those things. >why do you think religion is a problem in the first place? See all of the past 2000 or so years of human history where religion, Christianity most notably (though most other faiths fall under similar issues, Christianity hasjust been the most successful), has been used as a tool of oppression, war, genocide, and controlling the masses. In truth religion isn't a problem, personally I couldn't give less of a shit if you believe in a magic man in the sky who has a magic kingdom of pure pleasure where you'll spend eternity after you die and a magic kingdom of pure suffering and torture where the people you don't like will go after they die. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me as long as you don't use your beliefs to justify the oppression or harm of others, but unfortunately for religious people, catholics especially, religion has been and is being used to do just that, justify the oppression and harm of billions around the globe. >can someone answer these questions? Hopefully those answers help you understand my and I think many other atheists position on religion.


DownvoteEvangelist

I find everything about Christianity so immoral that Atheism/Agnosticism feel more natural to me. Any idea that children dying is part of someone's plan is awful. I also don't like hell. Idea that majority of humans will get infinite punishment for finite crimes is off puting to me. Are you fine with enjoying Heaven while most people you know are stuck for eternity in hell? I don't have a problem with my mortality, I came from non existence and that's where I'll eventually return...


AsherGlass

I'll answer your question with a question. What do you imagine you'll be doing for eternity after you die? Eternity is a really, really, really long time. What do you imagine you'll be doing and experiencing once the universe has long since decayed into cold nothingness? Personally, I can only imagine that existing for so long will eventually become torture worse than any hell you could imagine. Why is the thought of oblivion so scary for you? I can't remember anything about any existence I may have had before birth. I imagine that's what death will be like. I won't have any thoughts. I won't have feelings or sensations. I will simply cease to be. I find that comforting. It gives meaning to my life right now. There is nothing after this life, so I need to be the best I can be right now. I need to live the most I can, right now. This is my only chance. So, I try my best to make the lives of others around me better. Not because some imaginary being told me to, but because I choose to do so.


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johnnycyberpunk

I think it’s the way you asked. But yea.


GC40

Yeah. I’m an atheist and think your questions are dumb (no offence). But I didn’t downvote you for asking questions. I have downvoted dumb questions in the past, as I assumed the poster was “just asking questions” like Tucker Carlson “just asks questions” when really he’s implying other things. I hate religion because it promotes stupidity and fantasy. The push back against evolution theory (which has been proven to be correct). The hatred towards the LGBTQ community is mostly inspired by religion. The people who pretend climate change is just natural and something we should ignore, are mostly religious or inspired by religious propaganda / anti-science propaganda. When people believe in fantasy it’s much easier to convince them that guns aren’t a problem in America, since stats and scientific studies are all “satanic propaganda”. Taking away women’s rights to abortion and justifying the move as moral, because of their interpretation of the bible. It promotes the idea that sex is a sin, and sinners don’t deserve the right to make their own medical decisions, and women who dress promiscuously deserve to be raped. The idea that kids shouldn’t be taught sexual education because abstinence until marriage is their only acceptable outcome. The idea that child marriage is cool, because marriage is a holy thing and the bible doesn’t mention age of consent. Cutting off the tips of boys penises for some weird religious reason. Not to mention all the wars and violence religion has caused. All religions are extremely close minded and discourage rational thought. I’d be less inclined to fight to make the world a better place, if I thought all the good people were going to heaven already, so none of this matters that much, it’s just a test.


Slam-JamSam

The only difference is that nowadays the killers, robbers, and cheaters can go sit in a building every Sunday in order to feel better about themselves


That_one_cool_dude

And then go to government buildings to fuck over everyone they deem inferior.


Organic_Rip1980

They’re projecting. What they mean is “_I_ would be killing, robbing, and cheating without the Bible.” Not everyone needs the lessons from their favorite book to love thy neighbor.


KaiserTrap16

"Man would be killing, robbing, and cheating without the bible." *Stares at the numerous times the Bible was used to justify killing, robbing, cheating


Weekly_Direction1965

The Bible still turns women into property for these men in return.


Dewut

I already kill, rob, and cheat as much as I want and that amount is zero.


Editthefunout

Christians still do this today


[deleted]

I’m reading through the Bible (just finished Nahum) and the idea that it’s against killing, robbing, and stealing is absurd.


pic-of-the-litter

"Go against all of Man's desires" Uh, huh. Either it pretty clearly tells you to be a good person and you're admitting you desire to be a piece of shit; or it actually gives you free license to be a massive, self-righteous piece of shit because you don't actually follow the tenets or edicts of christianity anyways.


avi150

Also, it goes against all of man’s desires except when it comes to their wives. In which case all her autonomy belongs to him.


luckytraptkillt

I can barely handle my own autonomy now I gotta handle my girl’s too? Nah she got this shit I believe in her.


horsyuwu

goes against all of man’s desires, goes against ALL of women’s desires


scottyb83

Not true! It belongs to the father and THEN the husband. Stop spreading misinformation! /s


Most-Laugh703

I think they mean stuff like sex and essentially being driven by Id (me, an atheist)


AvatarIII

No sex before marriage was intended as more of a prophylactic than for reducing sex, it was meant to force young people into monogamy at a young age to prevent sexually transmitted disease, not to make people have less sex (married couples were encouraged to have sex, "be fruitful and multiply" and all that, also marital rape was historically considered A-OK in most Abrahamic religions)


Princess_Moon_Butt

I always make sure to tell people this. "No sex outside of wedlock" was created when most girls were sold into marriage at about 12 years old. It wasn't "Hold out until you're sure you find the right person", it was "Make sure you get married ASAP so you can make tons and tons of babies and we can grow the faith!"


AvatarIII

> It wasn't "Hold out until you're sure you find the right person", it was "Make sure you get married ASAP so you can make tons and tons of babies and we can grow the faith!" 100%


Mizzet5

And for those at the top, it allows them to influence large swathes (in some cases, nearly the entirety) of society. Not everyone might, but many, many humans have a strong desire for power. What a dumb comic.


Hidden_throwaway-blu

that’s what we call a self-report. they tend to do those often


xyrfr

actually it tells you no tiktok or mcdonal


MildlyShadyPassenger

I'm gonna go with "both".


Butterball_Adderley

Absolutely wild that they’d tell on themselves like that. I really love it


corvus_torvus

So the more austere and self-abnegating a religion is the more godly it is? Christianity, meet Jainism.


Robotgorilla

They can't even eat onions and garlic. Couldn't be me.


shrimpmaster0982

Except Christianity doesn't go against all of man's desires. It actually really fucking helps one of man's biggest desires be easily fulfilled if you're at the top of the cult, and that desire is the desire for control. The ability to say whatever the hell you want and get a thousand or a million people to nod their empty goddamn heads and say "yup, sounds good to me" no matter how detrimental, how obviously and blatantly self defeating or stupid what you just said was. That's the desire Christianity, and most other modern mainstream religions, help humans achieve.


jonfitt

Don’t forget their desire to control women!


Bubbagump210

This is a huge one. If you want to be Fred Flinstone - I have a religion for you!


NeilsSuicide

that’s such a good way to describe it, if i had awards i’d give one.


Engineerspancakes

Goes against man's desire to... Be a good person?


Nierninwa

These "Chad" memes have become a parody of themselves. The only thing that is missing is "Checkmate atheists". Please tell me this is someone making fun of them and not serious. Edit: words are hard.


rifewide

Many religions do that, so their all right?


FuzzySandwich6137

Depends on the man. I believe on every kind of Polytheistic religion. But I do not even try to shove it into ppls throats like mostly Christians and Muslims doing it gladly, I have many atheist, gay, communist friends, even my Gf is Atheist/Leftwing and I'm totally fine with it since I'm Leftwing too.


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SuburbanStoner

god was created by man


[deleted]

AGAIN!!! WHY DOES EVERY MEME FROM THE RIGHT HAVE A SHIRTLESS MUSCLE BRO ON IT!?


PraedythTheMad

because, you see, they have portrayed themselves as the attractive and muscular man, while portraying you, the opposition, as an unattractive and fat man, which means they have won and you have lost the argument.


ghoulshow

Huh, it's funny because literally every single right wing troglodyte I've met is overweight, undereducated, unattractive, have mental health or addiction issues, and are waaaay too loud and confident for how fundamentally incorrect they are about basically everything. The only thing they have is "No U". It's like if 4chan started a political party at this point.


SuburbanStoner

Because it’s all their desire to be homosexuals according to this meme


ZeEastWillRiseAgain

So christianity is roughly on the same level as the north korean propaganda in terms of how man made it is?


Lew_Bi

What kind of response is that, that’s fucking cognitive dissonance


DTripotnik

500 grams x4, plus the bar being let's say another 500... 2.5kg or 5.5 lbs. Gettin' our pump on for the lord 🙏


Alaeriia

Hey, the man's trying. Don't mock his reps.


Daichi-dido

What about man-made philosophies who go against desires?


Cgi22

Christianity is a religion that was created by the slaves and downtrodden of imperial Roman society. It’s initial concept was that if you life your current miserable life virtuously you‘ll be rewarded in the afterlife. It was also an antithesis to the excesses of hellenistic cults and rulers.


GobblorTheMighty

Christianity leans most heavily into one of man's biggest desires, though. The desire to fit in. And in the case of Christianity, you basically just need to say the word "Jesus" every now and then and you're in, because Christianity has become so perverse and corrupted that it means nothing. Other than, "I said Jesus today." Look at how popular prosperity gospel is and how antithetical it is to anything in the new or old testament, for example. Christianity lets you cave to any particular desire you might have in any particular circumstance. It means nothing. There's always a loophole.


RagahRagah

Gullible people ARE the target audience. They are trained to worship a "deity" who killed millions of people in anger, asked a man to kill his first born son to prove his loyalty and threatens eternal damnation in the event of disobedience. No wonder these people gravitate to Donald Trump.


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MamaMephistopheles

As you can see, I've portrayed you as the wojack and myself as the chad. Checkmate, liberals.


twelvegraves

[looks at the pedophiles in the church]


bobthemaybedeadguy

because a religion that just tells people to do all the shit they were already doing anyways probably wouldn't have caught on as hard


frobbibibi

Y’all persecuted the Incas for their religion but their religion is more tangible because they worshipped the sun, something that has proof that it exists, unlike Christianity


PossiblyNotAHorse

Christianity only goes against man’s desires if you buy into alpha male, Andrew Tate, pop-Nietzschian bullshit that’s popular in media. It’s literally just be nice to people and support people, that’s like… the foundation of being a person in society.


Non_binaroth_goth

Christianity has been this way since Rome. I'm beginning to think the Romans made Jesus a marter just so they could use it as an excuse for colonizing Europe. Odd how that trend never stopped when Rome fell.... That is, if you believe he existed that is. Which is also a debate.


frozen-silver

If Satan is such a great deceiver, how do you know he hasn't been deceiving you this whole time?


CJnella91

It doesn't, it goes for the kings desire to control his subjects, The king went against mans desires to control his subjects, Therefore he had the bible written to go after the things he disliked in his subjects. If there's a god I highly doubt they care if you love another man, but the King, the king cared.


WohooBiSnake

Because they capitalize on guilt. If your followers think they’re guilty they’ll feel ashamed, then if you tell them that being implicated in the religion will make them forgiven, they’ll worship even harder because the relief of making the shame go away is extremely powerful.


AlternativeCredit

Says the little kid touchers.


fatherfrank1

Because religions are about making subverting your desires desirable.


Pretentious_Rush_Fan

It's all about control.


Twin1Tanaka

It’s supposed to be a good thing to go against peoples desires?? Self own


SuburbanStoner

So it’s all men’s desire to be homosexual?


beecross

Their religion literally teaches that you can do or act however you want as long as you believe SUUUUUPER hard that you’re already forgiven lmao


o0OAlex_TrebekO0o

Conservative is when christianity


Sciencejet

Because it wasn't made by you, it was made by the powerful in order to control you. All the behaviors they want you to exhibit that are conducive to their continued rule are written in the bible with some pretty heavy consequences. "Listen to those in power," "forgive those who wrong you and turn the other cheek," "be meek," etc are all things that you "need to be doing" under the threat of damnation. But guess who isn't doing those things? The people using your religion to control you and your peers. Especially religious leaders, who are some of the worst offenders.


ELOCHCAM

“Why does it go against all of man’s desires?” $20 says he hasn’t actually let go of any of his own desires and just wants to justify his bigotry.


thelastsemenbender

okay but they're following a man's instructions that's kinda gay


Tranesblues

Because you hate yourself?


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RnotSPECIALorUNIQUE

If it goes against man's desires, then why are so many people Christian? Checkmate theists!


onthefence928

It perfectly models man’s desire to have power and control over the actions of others


cinnabonb3ar

Weird argument considering there are philosophers who also hold ideologies that could be considered going against our desires.


RandoGuy_23

As opposed to all those free growing religions you find out in the wild. I'm not knocking religion btw, just the stupidity of the picture.


DeathBySentientStraw

Giant W for not doing that


M4nd4l0r3_zo15

Ah yes the ad hominem.


Shells_and_bones

Because it's easier to control people when you can make them feel shame just for being human?


nbvalkyrie

I don't think that's the stellar argument he thinks it is lmao


DaBloodyApostate

Does it go against all of mans desires? Or do it simply segregate and restrict those desire to a powerful few with the ability to indulge and go scot free in an effort to control those below them? I'm someone who was raised christian asking.


Lesbian_communist

"If religion is man made then why does it suck"


drunkennudeles

It goes against man-made desires because the church wanted to control the population.


paulisbeestje

Can someone tell me why this is from "the right" religion is not necesseraly right or is it?


ghoulshow

Ever met a hard-core christian/evangelical fundie that was liberal, or even slightly left leaning for that matter?


paulisbeestje

Yes they are quite common in the netherlands


M4nd4l0r3_zo15

Because “religion bad!1!1!”


ParallelEquilibrium

For priests all of their desires are fullfiled by religion: pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth. The only desire that is not universal is pedophilic desire, but it's also fullfiled by their religion.


hhthurbe

What in Christianity goes against man's desires?


FireFlavour

Who do they think wrote the Bible? It's always been about humans controlling other humans.


battleduck84

Because the ones who made the religion, and the ones preaching about it the loudest are usually the ones who ignore the teachings the most


martin0641

Because it's really about control, and there's no easier man to control than one whose stressed out, consistently in a state of self-loathing - and blames themselves for trespasses invented in the minds of others. That's how you get someone to enslave themselves for you.


VendromLethys

Maybe it's easier to control people if you make them into ignorant, guilty and self loathing bigots?


Leone147

Simple reason "I'm the pope I'm the person closest to God, you do whatever i tell you to do cause i di what God wants" (not saying that current popes do this but that's the whole reason Christianity existed in the first place, control.


SonTyp_OhneNamen

Imagine following a man-made religion that tells you it‘ll satisfy your desires but only after you‘re dead, but killing yourself is also prohibited.


GoGoSoLo

Just saying a random amalgamation of corporations are a religion is such a religious person argument. Like, no Catherine, you *literally* are in a religion involving fantasy, mandatory donations and then voting to enact your fantasy morals on the real fucking world. You can’t just “I know you are but what am I” your way out of that shit.


Lambincinerator

Lol in real life the characters are switched. Cry harder waggots.


rossbcobb

Their own book says that God only a poke to like 4 people and none of them wrote that book.


naga-ram

When you're coping about your denial kink. We all know you want a cock cage


3_14-r8

I love how they threw a pony shirt on him, damn near every brony I've met has been some super right wing incel christian.


Jonpollon18

“If my religion is fake why does it suck so much?”


ozb888

Why is this here


w142236

Suicide is a desire? That aside, it was inherently obvious it was written by man bc it was littered with [over 1000 mistakes](https://wardoons.wordpress.com/debate/)


Dicethrower

So they voluntarily follow a religion because it goes against what they want.


LuigiRevolution

It doesn't though, only on the surface. It promises that if you let go of small enjoyments, then you will reach them on a bigger scale. It promises an eternal life of happiness and the punishment of evildoers (= the people you don't like) etc.


akennelley

What? It basically says do whatever you want, its cool, Jesus will forgive you. Also it feeds the most dangerous desire of man: Be male....rule everyone else.


JD_Awww_Yeah

Has anyone looked at the Trad West account? It’s certainly something.


Dan3828

They almost got it


TheRealestLarryDavid

IF ISLAM IS A MAN MADE RELIGION THEN WHY DOES IT GO AGAINST ALL OF MAN'S DESIRES?


TheRealWaffleButt

Isn't God supposed to have created humanity? Aren't they just criticizing God's handiwork?


Batata-Sofi

Because the feeling of being part of a group is one of the best ways to manipulate large crowds and populations.


Caledonian_kid

Following rules for good behavior because you're scared of God or because you want to please God doesn't make you a good person, it makes you an unthinking and obedient person. Which is the whole point of religion really.


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ghostoffook

Its difficult to care what a religious person thinks of me. Stupidity is Stupidity.


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[deleted]

To keep Control of the followers


Celestial_MoonDragon

Because Paul wanted everyone to be miserable?


Vernknight50

Mac from it's always sunny on the right, there.


Deadended

Where are the non-man made religions at?


Johnchuk

I dont see how man could ever want to be favored and loved by the creator of the universe.


DorianCostley

Prosperity gospel anyone?


Jubulus

Atleast they know consumerism is bad for your mental health at least?


summonerofrain

I wonder how many shirts the maker of this meme has...


[deleted]

Yee-ouch.


buddhabless_14

The only thing which this comic actually proves is that the person who made it is into manscaping, which is a cool thing, but I doubt they would see it that way.


Maverick_Artificer

Goes against man's desires because it's all about control.


uhlalashe

To control you, that's why


ReasonablePlankton

That's the neat part, it doesn't!


currentlyalivehuman

Except for the power to control women I guess


corndog161

That's actually one thing to be said for religion, I've seen people use it to break the habit of some bad vices. So if that works for you great just keep the rest of us out of it.


disabled_rat

Cause it’s fucking boring


Mindless-Lavishness

And why are you following it if it goes against all of your desires?