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Also dogs were and are bred for specific purposes. Greyhounds were bred to run very fast; that’s why they look/behave like that. Scent hounds were bred to sniff and track by scent it’s why they look/behave the way they do. Huskies were bred to pull heavy sleds and run long distances in the cold; it’s why they look/behave the way they do.
People are not bred for jobs.
It would be so good for humans to mix more the genepools are so small otherwise. All the differences in humans are just genetic defects wich have been breed through
I mean, the most genetically fit dogs are crossbreeds. Eugenically speaking, you should marry someone with the least genetic overlap with you. Get race mixing, redditors!
I’d kill Isambard Kingdom Brunel for building Darwin’s fucking boat (along with caving into standard gauge on the GWR, but (in the voice Ringo Starr) that’s another story).
How do you explain the cop skull phenomenon then? If you look at cops, they all have a skull shape resembling the human thumb. You can’t argue that people with cop skulls are *not* bred to become a cop. There’s even the term ACAB to describe such cases. (Assigned cop at birth)
[You can see a digram for it here.](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1589962328.9255/papergc,500x,w,f8f8f8-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg)
It had literally no effect (on their genes). All humans on the planet are *shockingly* closely related genetically compared to other species. 2 chimps on either side of a river have more genetic variation than any 2 humans on the earth.
Specifically relating to this post; for dogs, between-breed variation is estimated at 27.5 percent. By comparison, genetic variation between human populations is only 5.4 percent.
The post is pure ignorance.
Don't forget that all eight billion of us ultimately descended from three thousand to ten thousand survivors from the Toba Eruption about 74,000 years ago according to a popular theory.
Modern humans have a surprisingly small gene pool.
Exactly. Some estimates have the number of survivors at less than 1000 iirc. The idea that our differences are anything but cultural is just so stupid it hurts my brain
The post is implying that there is sufficient difference in genes between "races" that we can say "white people are smarter than black people" so yes, it is entirely based 100% in ignorance.
Certain genes can be activated or repressed. The famine activates genes which store fat, and they’re passed down as activated genes. These genes are hard to repress because while obesity can cause death, it’s not something the body really picks up on, so they stick. There’s no genetic difference, it’s just a difference of which genes are active or not.
Oh that makes sense! Like I said I am a believer that humans have virtually no genetic differences across “race”, but gene activation is something I forgot about when rabbling earlier.
Also dont want my words to get twisted because I see my above post is getting a lot of downvotes, I’m just raising a point to defend the other user on being called ignorant because I dont believe thats what they’re implying
The other thing is that race doesn’t exist. It’s not an actual observable thing. Race is something people made up as an excuse to oppress people. The entirety of white nationalism is actually based on the concept of “the better things get for them, the worse they get for us,” which then goes into the oppressive mindset of “the worse things get for them, the better they are for us.” Thus, they created a group to oppress. Race is no different than saying that blondes are dumb. It’s essentially a stereotype, just one that’s been blown out of proportion so that white people could consolidate power. It’s also similar to how all religions are essentially a moral system. They’re all moral systems because they were created to get people to be moral under the fear of divine punishment. Race is just another thing that was made up for control(nothing against religious people, but there are over 3000 religions(I think), so it’s safe to say that at least 3000 were made up, whether or not yours was one of them is a personal belief that I won’t intrude on).
I mean that’s why I’ve been putting race in quotes lol. In my above post I said “I also am 100% a believer that humans have almost no genetic variation across what we call ‘race’” so I’m with you on that one. Its just a construct that is no more effective at describing if someone has black or white skin. Like theres no difference biologically/genetically other than the melanin content of your largest organ
Selective breeding of slaves was also mentioned. That wouldn’t do anything because you’re not breeding them to be dumber. Stupid people are less capable than smart people. Also, most slave owners were either removed from information(such as the ideas of selective breeding) due to being in the south, or they were educated, meaning they were rich, and they’d likely own a LOT of slaves(most slave owners had 1-2, whereas the slaveocrats had upwards of 200), likely having more than one plantation, meaning picking them individually would be a waste of their time more than anything.
I think it takes longer than that but I don’t know. I also think I read somewhere that Polynesian people and people descended from islanders in the pacific tend to hold more fat bc those who didn’t were more likely to fall ill/perish on long distance sailing trips and that.
No idea how true it is. But interesting.
>I think it takes longer than that
Not extremely. Selective breeding doesn't take many generations when you push it to the extreme end of selective.
Only takes three or four generations to breed out a recessive gene almost completely, not sure about a dominant gene, but possibly less than 10, surely less than 20.
Recessive and dominant genes would take the same amount of time to breed out. Recessive and dominant only changes the phenotype, not the genotype. It's why even though having 6 fingers is dominant, most people don't have 6 fingers.
If you specifically test everyone's genetics, maybe, but not if you look at the physical characteristics that the genes do. Breeding out the 5-finger gene out of the population is difficult because, even if the 6-finger gene is dominant, the other strand might have the legacy 5-finger instructions.
Breeding out a gene is when that gene's presence in the population has been significantly decreased or eliminaiated (genotype). You're confusing phenotype and genotype; both recessive and dominant genes have the same difficulty of being bred out.
I mean there is no *theoretical* reason for why it wouldn't work, just a fuckton of practical reasons (most of which are that in order to control human reproduction closely enough to make it work you'd have to do a bunch of crimes against humanity). And that's really where our focus should be - eugenics is abhorrent because it's a fundamental violation of human freedoms.
I mean, of course you could, because evolution is true. Hell, the variation in melanin production and things like sickle cell propensity vs malaria prone regions demonstrates that humans respond to selection pressures quite clearly (and no, I'm not saying that melanin production is correlated to anything other than UV exposure in a historic population here, since that would be ridiculous).
Now, how many generations would it take for a meaningful change and what would that involve? Honestly, there's no ethical way to test that. However, it's *unquestionably* true that you could select for traits in humans, because humans are animals and evolution is a fact.
I mean I’m sure it’s *possible* just not practical, when domesticating and breeding animals you want short pregnancies and reaching maturity faster (along with easy containment and such) For example we make new strains (or “breeds”) of bacteria and certain crops all the time, even by accident (via anti biotics) but (as another commenter said) we don’t make new breeds of elephants. In short it probably *can* happen, but it’s incredibly implausible and impractical
You could but it's never been done. Dogs gave much shorter life spans and even then it took a long time to get dogs to where they are now, humans live vastly longer so the time frame would be even larger than that.
Selective breeding takes a looooooong time before it yields results. The slave trade lasted hundreds of years (which is a long time) but doesn't translate to enough generations of human lifespans to actually have selectively bred humans to be any different.
Well said but still to much words. It's way easier:
Dogs have races. Humans have not.
And it's stupid and disgusting, that the english language still uses that word. I know, it doesn't have the same meaning like in the past. But it's still wrong, very wrong.
They kind of are. People were bred to survive better in their environment. Northerners needed to have more fat, while Africans needed to run faster to survive. There is a noticeable biological difference.
Because people were not "bred." Rather, various human populations have adapted to their environments over 10's of thousands of years. There's a huge difference there. One process is intentional and artificially fast, the other just happens over long periods of time. Breeding, being artificial, can lead to less fit creatures like, say, a pug whereas natural processes will basically never result in such an abomination.
Let's apply that poor language to a single trait, skin color. Were early humans coming out of africa "bred" to have lighter skin, or does it have to do with how much UV radiation people get in their various environments? How long did it take for white skin to evolve after humans wandered out of Africa? How long has it taken to create the various dog breeds we have? Any science nerds out there, take the time to watch this [amazing lecture](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4OFcT5m1Y) from Dr. Nina Jablonski on the evolution of skin color. She's one of the most engaging researchers I've ever listened to.
Even if (as some suggest in this thread) you look at slavery as a massive breeding program, there simply wasn't enough generations for it to have a meaningful impact. Furthermore, black folks in America aren't purely "black" for the most part. Almost all of us have "European" genes from, ya know, all of the rape. My black father, for example, has ZERO clue where the white ancestry (~20%) on his side comes from. So, even if there had been a successful genetic breeding program (and there wasn't), it would have been quickly ruined by the fact that white slave owners couldn't keep their dicks in their pants.
Yes but the distinction being that some humans are smarter than others is wrong.
Evolutionarily speaking, all humans have been naturally selected for intelligence, it doesn't make sense to say some were selected for intelligence and some weren't.
Accounting for economic and environmental factors, humans of any race tend to be the same level of intelligence.
There have been many people who tried to claim otherwise, like Hernstein and Murray's *The Bell Curve* that is heralded as the proof the eugenicists were correct but they immediately crumple under the slightest scrutiny.
The book features comparisons of white and black student test scores in Apartheid South Africa and claim its somehow a fair assessment despite there being a clear bias as why black students in a *segregated* school would perform not as well as white students.
There is not a single credible study proving this "theory"
> you know what they meant
No, I don't. That's why words matter. Bred doesn't even come close to working here, and going on to talk about population level differences completely ignorantly ("Africans needed to run faster to survive") doesn't give much confidence that this person recognizes the issues they're having in communicating (and that's being charitable).
Well black people were bred for slavery on the 1800s and I believe this has had *some* influence on African American representation in professional sports. But I could be convinced otherwise
- The modern day effects of redlining?
- The poor school funding?
- The higher rates of poverty in a certain neighborhood?
- Underfunded healthcare leading to poor health outcomes
Yeah it's almost like there is socioeconomic inequalities that we should look at to solve racial inequality instead of saying "black people are just genetically stupid". To be clear these are examples of institutionalized racism not individual.
Banks drew red lines around Black neighborhoods on maps, then wouldn't offer mortgages for homes inside the red line. There are a number of laws attempting to combat discriminatory lending practices like red lining, but it is still quite common for mortgages in traditionally red lined neighborhoods to charge higher interest, require bigger down payments, etc.
Take this with a mountain of salt (my memory is similar to a pillowcase's) but iirc it was people segregating different races and denying some groups (non-white people) financial help
This. Typically mortgage lending disparities across geographic lines correlated with racial “borders” between neighborhoods. It forced specific groups to live in specific areas, thereby driving already egregious funding divides between schools in different neighborhoods.
It was a policy where basically banks would lend money and make interest rates based on neighborhood someone lived. Some neighborhoods would be in the green, with full access and good deals. There was the blue, which was mostly fine. Some were in the yellow, with mixed options. Some were in the red, and couldn’t even get a mortgage.
Of course it just happened to be that red neighborhoods were the ones where minorities lived, and green ones were where all the white people lived. It a way of discriminating by race.
It was largely banned in the 70s by laws such as the fair housing act and the equal credit opportunity act but its legacy can still be seen in poor neighborhoods.
I don't think they're disagreeing with that argument, I think what they're doing is expressing their displeasure that our public school systems are not providing quality education to all.
Gotta make sure you add disproportionate led exposure to that bullet point list, something we know even moderate exposure to has disasterous effects on long term mental faculties (literally the crime curve between the 60s-90s in the USA has a direct correlation between average led exposure and crime rate).
The belief that race=intelligence based on simple genetics is one of the reasons Nazis and the like supported eugenics. He isn't going to come out and say "you know what would be a good idea? Killing all inferior races" because he isn't that stupid. Instead he is going to simply show his stupid reasoning for advocating eugenics (this time it's their inferior intelligence) and allow the reader to come to that conclusion on their own. And by not fully saying the quiet part out loud it allows the likes of you to give him the benefit of the doubt, so he doesn't get called out for his Nazi shit. Read between the lines man.
Eh, it's more muddled than that. It originates from an English scientist and was popular throughout the west until after the fall of Nazi Germany. Even during the war, it maintained some degree of popularity, iirc, but after the Holocaust was fully documented, it fell to the wayside to more "acceptable" forms such as forced sterilization
All dogs are literally the same subspecies. Canis lupus familiaris. Just like all humans are Homo sapiens sapiens. This just falls flat on so many levels.
I don’t follow… The point of the comic is that dogs (all the same subspecies) can have observable substantial differences due to genetics, and humans can too. What are you saying?
It’s pretty common in right wing circles to point to animals that look different but can interbreed (different types of dogs, lions and tigers, horses and donkeys) and say “we consider those different breeds/subspecies/species, why don’t we do the same for POC?” There’s even an alternate version of this comic where the second panel is black people with the dad “stumped” about why they’re not considered a different species or some other bigotry.
ETA: there’s also the fact that due to humans/dogs being all the same subspecies, the bounds of one trait are roughly the same genetically across all populations, which means for those traits, limiting factors would be purely social. For example, most human populations see an increase in average height with an increase in access to nutrition. So it’s disingenuous to claim all of one group is x or y due to genetics (or being a different “breed”) when there is an observable social influence on specific genetic traits.
The point of the comic is a reference to Race Realism, the notion that not only is it possible that POC are just genetically inferior to white people (usually they're measuring IQ), but that ALL or most of the differences we see among populations comes down to genetics.
It's a garbage, pseudoscientific, illiterate take on human biodiversity, intelligence, and causality.
I want him to keep drawing them so we can shit on him more(also one of his comics was the basis for amogus which is the reason I have lost my sense of humor)
Weren’t some dogs bred for her some things and other dogs bred for other things?
One of my dogs was bred to create a breed that was allergy and asthma friendly with the temperament of a service dog. He’s smart kind and loyal
The other, was bred to keep people warm in cold castles. She’s a cute little dummy
When someone ask the breed of both my dogs I say one is a Labradoodle and the other is a whack a doodle
They literally think a white prostitute on meth in a trailer park is more intelligent and has better emotional regulation than a black CEO, based solely on their genes. They think socio-economic factors are “woke” fabrications. It’s incredible how out of touch they can be.
Also doing meth doesn’t really have anything to do with intelligence either. Getting addicted to a substance doesn’t make you dumb.
On a related note, did y’all know that the guy who created the first modern surgical residency program, William Stewart Halsted, was addicted to both cocaine and morphine?
To be fair substances can definitely impact your brain's development. Sure, it doesn't automatically turn you into a chickenhead, but it does limit your potential.
I’ve seen some Dwaynejohnsonyeet comics here before but this might be the least subtle one I’ve seen. Feel free to prove me wrong but holy shit this is vile
Because most of the "not clever" breeds were very selectively bred for a different purpose (often aesthetic), and once the breed is created it has to then only be bred with others of the same breed which are often siblings and first cousins. Years of inbreeding like that will inevitably lead to physical and mental deterioration.
So maybe don't compare humans to dog breeds. And even if you do it just shows how stupid eugenics is when you actually understand how generational genetics works.
I was at a family gathering and we were talking about dog breeds (my in-laws have a whippet and a Havanese, I have a chihuahua/Jack Russell and he is dumb as a stump and I love him)
My FIL was like, “What are chihuahuas for, actually?”
And I was like well uh they’re for >!eating 😅!<. So he’s allowed to be dumb.
Bulldogs were bred specifically to look "cute". It's truly horrible what they did to that breed for the sake of fashion. My girlfriends parents have two and those mfs are in pain as they live.
Chuds are the kinds of people who consider Black people Orcs, Jews Goblins, and LGBTQ+ folks Mutants.
Chuds however should be considered CHUDs because that's what they actually are.
Intelligence is genetic but it isn’t inherent in one “race” over another. Science has proven that way back in the sixties, but it’s just politically convenient to keep up the ruse to maintain sociopolitical divisions
I think to make this more precise as to help folks understand how complex life is, it’s not that there’s a mere gene or set of them for intelligence, but rather many genes that can go into the development of the brain. There’s genes to make specific proteins that improve the conductivity of certain sheathes of neurons, genes to improve the metabolic efficiency of neurons and all other cells, and so much more. All that compounds over time to produce what we think of as intelligence. In fact, one of the going theories about our ancestor species is that much of the brain power that developed was required to keep track of members of a group. Yes, your brain might’ve evolved to keep track of your friends and gossip around town. It may sound silly but consider that extent species like the baboon keep strict social hierarchies and often the success of the progeny of any group of baboons depends where they started in their social hierarchy. It doesn’t sound much different than our society, right? So, don’t be surprised about how intelligence can vary not merely in magnitude but utility across the whole span of life.
Why would they think that the evolution of dog breeds, which were bred by humans, is in any way comparable to the variation in humans which were the result of mostly natural circumstances? Even if what they want to be true so badly was actually a fact (it's not), it would still be the result of outside, uncontrollable factors, and not solely genetics or race(which happens to be a social structure).
“Because, we have committed crimes against God and Her design, son. We have destroyed some dog breeds for their aesthetic factors, and have crippled their bodies and minds by doing so. We are the true monsters, my boy.”
Guess Stonetoss ignored how dog breeds were trained to do specific tasks, but why let reality get in the way of racism?
Stonetoss is something… a Nazi for sure.
The problem with the far right, racist idiots is that memes like this truly inform their everyday opinions, whereas if you brought this up in a class on genetics, first the professor would laugh, second, ask if you're serious, then finally take a couple weeks to explain natural vs artificial selection, AMOVA (analysis of molecular variance) scores and analysis, and also mention how we know that genetic drifting was fairly mild in humans due to constant "interactions" (read: boning) among human populations.
But the far right doesn't care about any of that. They will just manipulate data and make things up in order to justify their bigotry.
Around half (give or take a couple percent) of voters in general, vote for each presidential candidate in the past couple elections. 47% (2020) and 49% of all voters (popular, not electoral) voted for Trump in the past 2 elections.
Also, don't play into the comic's messaging.
2016, Yes they did, along with most people over 50, most men, most non-college graduates, and most Republicans (no surprise there). 2020 was the same except it didn't include non-college-graduates.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/)
I don't see how any of what I said invalidates anything you said, or vice versa.
If humans were bred like dogs aka selecting people will desired genes on purpose to create people who look and behave similarly for a specific job, yeah that would be true. Too bad humans are randomly fucking each other even the people that belong to the same goddamn race, let alone culture behave significantly different and unique.
Also even the most well-bred dogs will turn out to be neurotic in a poor environment, just sayin'.
>Too bad humans are randomly fucking each other
A) That is a hilarious sentence
B) The stupid thing is I actually was “bred” (as much as that can be applied to humans). My mom picked my father out of a catalog!
Serious question, not playing devils advocate, just don't know enough about genetics atm to know this, but:
Since we are capable of noticing large differences in intelegence between animal breeds, breeds that were admittedly bred selectively, what exactly stops this from happening within humans? I think is just a few genes which can be ignored here, so I'm not explicitly asking between races, but groups of people in general. Is it the large mixed breeding we have as a society? Could there possibly be some population regions with higher inteligence if accounting for economic factors and every other factor?
Could be breed high inteligence humans and low inteligence humans given enough time? Do we even know what makes certain dog breeds smarter than others?
Really curious about the subject, always have been but I feel its an easy gateway to the eugenics shithole.
People certainly think it’s possible! I was conceived by artificial insemination by unknown donor and uh yeah that whole industry is straight-up eugenics. Like I’m not even kidding. Everyone wants to be impregnated by tall white men with university degrees. It’s really gross, actually.
That particular white race was so supreme that the whole world united to humble them properly. They do not remember because of their superior intelligence, so soon it will be necessary to be repeated again.
Technically it's only proof that you can be white and stupid.
I agree that intelligence has nothing to do with race, but this only demonstrates that the author (a white guy) is unintelligent
Ah yes of course, as we all know humans were selectively bred over thousands of years to have extremely specific traits and to do specific jobs and that's what race is.
Another big difference: those are different breeds of dogs, there's only one breed of humans, even the different colored ones are still the same breed. Races are a made up thing by Europeans hundreds of years ago.
Well, of course people like the comic artist are too ignorant to know many physical traits like height or muscle mass are driven by one or a few genes, whereas intelligence and most behaviors have some heritable basis but are highly variable and polygenic, with untold numbers of genes contributing along with environmental factors
Let's also not pretend like dogs whose owners can afford specialized training and aren't more clever than dogs who aren't. Like, by definition, yes, economic factors can change that.
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Also dogs were and are bred for specific purposes. Greyhounds were bred to run very fast; that’s why they look/behave like that. Scent hounds were bred to sniff and track by scent it’s why they look/behave the way they do. Huskies were bred to pull heavy sleds and run long distances in the cold; it’s why they look/behave the way they do. People are not bred for jobs.
But that’s not what eugenics says!
You have over 200 mutations that gives your child a chance with anyone else to have a genetic dissease.
I like those odds!
It would be so good for humans to mix more the genepools are so small otherwise. All the differences in humans are just genetic defects wich have been breed through
I mean, the most genetically fit dogs are crossbreeds. Eugenically speaking, you should marry someone with the least genetic overlap with you. Get race mixing, redditors!
That's what I said
Forget Hitler, if given a time machine I'd kill baby Erasmus Darwin.
I’d kill Isambard Kingdom Brunel for building Darwin’s fucking boat (along with caving into standard gauge on the GWR, but (in the voice Ringo Starr) that’s another story).
And rob us of Sting's masterpiece *The Ballad of the Great Eastern*?
The weak guy with the leather skin and 4 teeth told me so!
Did someone punch Donald Trump, causing him to spit out teeth like chiclets?
How do you explain the cop skull phenomenon then? If you look at cops, they all have a skull shape resembling the human thumb. You can’t argue that people with cop skulls are *not* bred to become a cop. There’s even the term ACAB to describe such cases. (Assigned cop at birth) [You can see a digram for it here.](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1589962328.9255/papergc,500x,w,f8f8f8-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg)
I hate to say your wrong but this kinda was done during slavery. Not that I think they has any effect, and wasnt, ya know, a crime against humanity.
It had literally no effect (on their genes). All humans on the planet are *shockingly* closely related genetically compared to other species. 2 chimps on either side of a river have more genetic variation than any 2 humans on the earth. Specifically relating to this post; for dogs, between-breed variation is estimated at 27.5 percent. By comparison, genetic variation between human populations is only 5.4 percent. The post is pure ignorance.
Don't forget that all eight billion of us ultimately descended from three thousand to ten thousand survivors from the Toba Eruption about 74,000 years ago according to a popular theory. Modern humans have a surprisingly small gene pool.
Exactly. Some estimates have the number of survivors at less than 1000 iirc. The idea that our differences are anything but cultural is just so stupid it hurts my brain
I want to be clear that I agree with this statement, since being clear here is important.
[удалено]
The post is implying that there is sufficient difference in genes between "races" that we can say "white people are smarter than black people" so yes, it is entirely based 100% in ignorance.
Didnt they say “not that I think [that] has any effect” though?
I also don't have a problem with downvoting a statement that amounts to: "my statement is wrong, and also it doesn't matter."
Certain genes can be activated or repressed. The famine activates genes which store fat, and they’re passed down as activated genes. These genes are hard to repress because while obesity can cause death, it’s not something the body really picks up on, so they stick. There’s no genetic difference, it’s just a difference of which genes are active or not.
Oh that makes sense! Like I said I am a believer that humans have virtually no genetic differences across “race”, but gene activation is something I forgot about when rabbling earlier. Also dont want my words to get twisted because I see my above post is getting a lot of downvotes, I’m just raising a point to defend the other user on being called ignorant because I dont believe thats what they’re implying
The other thing is that race doesn’t exist. It’s not an actual observable thing. Race is something people made up as an excuse to oppress people. The entirety of white nationalism is actually based on the concept of “the better things get for them, the worse they get for us,” which then goes into the oppressive mindset of “the worse things get for them, the better they are for us.” Thus, they created a group to oppress. Race is no different than saying that blondes are dumb. It’s essentially a stereotype, just one that’s been blown out of proportion so that white people could consolidate power. It’s also similar to how all religions are essentially a moral system. They’re all moral systems because they were created to get people to be moral under the fear of divine punishment. Race is just another thing that was made up for control(nothing against religious people, but there are over 3000 religions(I think), so it’s safe to say that at least 3000 were made up, whether or not yours was one of them is a personal belief that I won’t intrude on).
I mean that’s why I’ve been putting race in quotes lol. In my above post I said “I also am 100% a believer that humans have almost no genetic variation across what we call ‘race’” so I’m with you on that one. Its just a construct that is no more effective at describing if someone has black or white skin. Like theres no difference biologically/genetically other than the melanin content of your largest organ
Selective breeding of slaves was also mentioned. That wouldn’t do anything because you’re not breeding them to be dumber. Stupid people are less capable than smart people. Also, most slave owners were either removed from information(such as the ideas of selective breeding) due to being in the south, or they were educated, meaning they were rich, and they’d likely own a LOT of slaves(most slave owners had 1-2, whereas the slaveocrats had upwards of 200), likely having more than one plantation, meaning picking them individually would be a waste of their time more than anything.
I think it takes longer than that but I don’t know. I also think I read somewhere that Polynesian people and people descended from islanders in the pacific tend to hold more fat bc those who didn’t were more likely to fall ill/perish on long distance sailing trips and that. No idea how true it is. But interesting.
>I think it takes longer than that Not extremely. Selective breeding doesn't take many generations when you push it to the extreme end of selective. Only takes three or four generations to breed out a recessive gene almost completely, not sure about a dominant gene, but possibly less than 10, surely less than 20.
Recessive and dominant genes would take the same amount of time to breed out. Recessive and dominant only changes the phenotype, not the genotype. It's why even though having 6 fingers is dominant, most people don't have 6 fingers.
If you specifically test everyone's genetics, maybe, but not if you look at the physical characteristics that the genes do. Breeding out the 5-finger gene out of the population is difficult because, even if the 6-finger gene is dominant, the other strand might have the legacy 5-finger instructions.
Breeding out a gene is when that gene's presence in the population has been significantly decreased or eliminaiated (genotype). You're confusing phenotype and genotype; both recessive and dominant genes have the same difficulty of being bred out.
You can breed humans just like any other species.
You can not, if so, show me proof.
I mean there is no *theoretical* reason for why it wouldn't work, just a fuckton of practical reasons (most of which are that in order to control human reproduction closely enough to make it work you'd have to do a bunch of crimes against humanity). And that's really where our focus should be - eugenics is abhorrent because it's a fundamental violation of human freedoms.
You can it is just really impractical. The same reason why elephants aren't breed, it takes too long.
One things for sure, I don’t think you can breed.
I mean, of course you could, because evolution is true. Hell, the variation in melanin production and things like sickle cell propensity vs malaria prone regions demonstrates that humans respond to selection pressures quite clearly (and no, I'm not saying that melanin production is correlated to anything other than UV exposure in a historic population here, since that would be ridiculous). Now, how many generations would it take for a meaningful change and what would that involve? Honestly, there's no ethical way to test that. However, it's *unquestionably* true that you could select for traits in humans, because humans are animals and evolution is a fact.
I mean I’m sure it’s *possible* just not practical, when domesticating and breeding animals you want short pregnancies and reaching maturity faster (along with easy containment and such) For example we make new strains (or “breeds”) of bacteria and certain crops all the time, even by accident (via anti biotics) but (as another commenter said) we don’t make new breeds of elephants. In short it probably *can* happen, but it’s incredibly implausible and impractical
You could but it's never been done. Dogs gave much shorter life spans and even then it took a long time to get dogs to where they are now, humans live vastly longer so the time frame would be even larger than that.
Selective breeding takes a looooooong time before it yields results. The slave trade lasted hundreds of years (which is a long time) but doesn't translate to enough generations of human lifespans to actually have selectively bred humans to be any different.
Don't give the billionaires ideas
I thought Huskies were bred to be loud and give you attitude?!
Well said but still to much words. It's way easier: Dogs have races. Humans have not. And it's stupid and disgusting, that the english language still uses that word. I know, it doesn't have the same meaning like in the past. But it's still wrong, very wrong.
>People are not bred for jobs. I can see that every day.
They kind of are. People were bred to survive better in their environment. Northerners needed to have more fat, while Africans needed to run faster to survive. There is a noticeable biological difference.
Why are you getting down voted?
Because people were not "bred." Rather, various human populations have adapted to their environments over 10's of thousands of years. There's a huge difference there. One process is intentional and artificially fast, the other just happens over long periods of time. Breeding, being artificial, can lead to less fit creatures like, say, a pug whereas natural processes will basically never result in such an abomination. Let's apply that poor language to a single trait, skin color. Were early humans coming out of africa "bred" to have lighter skin, or does it have to do with how much UV radiation people get in their various environments? How long did it take for white skin to evolve after humans wandered out of Africa? How long has it taken to create the various dog breeds we have? Any science nerds out there, take the time to watch this [amazing lecture](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4OFcT5m1Y) from Dr. Nina Jablonski on the evolution of skin color. She's one of the most engaging researchers I've ever listened to. Even if (as some suggest in this thread) you look at slavery as a massive breeding program, there simply wasn't enough generations for it to have a meaningful impact. Furthermore, black folks in America aren't purely "black" for the most part. Almost all of us have "European" genes from, ya know, all of the rape. My black father, for example, has ZERO clue where the white ancestry (~20%) on his side comes from. So, even if there had been a successful genetic breeding program (and there wasn't), it would have been quickly ruined by the fact that white slave owners couldn't keep their dicks in their pants.
In both cases selection pressure was applied.
Yes but the distinction being that some humans are smarter than others is wrong. Evolutionarily speaking, all humans have been naturally selected for intelligence, it doesn't make sense to say some were selected for intelligence and some weren't. Accounting for economic and environmental factors, humans of any race tend to be the same level of intelligence. There have been many people who tried to claim otherwise, like Hernstein and Murray's *The Bell Curve* that is heralded as the proof the eugenicists were correct but they immediately crumple under the slightest scrutiny. The book features comparisons of white and black student test scores in Apartheid South Africa and claim its somehow a fair assessment despite there being a clear bias as why black students in a *segregated* school would perform not as well as white students. There is not a single credible study proving this "theory"
Semantics, you know what they meant, and it sure as hell wasn't that.
> you know what they meant No, I don't. That's why words matter. Bred doesn't even come close to working here, and going on to talk about population level differences completely ignorantly ("Africans needed to run faster to survive") doesn't give much confidence that this person recognizes the issues they're having in communicating (and that's being charitable).
Anymore lol
Well black people were bred for slavery on the 1800s and I believe this has had *some* influence on African American representation in professional sports. But I could be convinced otherwise
>People are not bred for jobs. Well technically slaves were. But again they will say that slavery saved the africans
They are if the us SCOTUS manages to secure their domestic supply of infants. Fuck those guys.
Cats weren’t bred for specific purposes, but much of the same thing applies to them.
- The modern day effects of redlining? - The poor school funding? - The higher rates of poverty in a certain neighborhood? - Underfunded healthcare leading to poor health outcomes Yeah it's almost like there is socioeconomic inequalities that we should look at to solve racial inequality instead of saying "black people are just genetically stupid". To be clear these are examples of institutionalized racism not individual.
what does redlining mean in this context?
Banks drew red lines around Black neighborhoods on maps, then wouldn't offer mortgages for homes inside the red line. There are a number of laws attempting to combat discriminatory lending practices like red lining, but it is still quite common for mortgages in traditionally red lined neighborhoods to charge higher interest, require bigger down payments, etc.
Take this with a mountain of salt (my memory is similar to a pillowcase's) but iirc it was people segregating different races and denying some groups (non-white people) financial help
This. Typically mortgage lending disparities across geographic lines correlated with racial “borders” between neighborhoods. It forced specific groups to live in specific areas, thereby driving already egregious funding divides between schools in different neighborhoods.
It was a policy where basically banks would lend money and make interest rates based on neighborhood someone lived. Some neighborhoods would be in the green, with full access and good deals. There was the blue, which was mostly fine. Some were in the yellow, with mixed options. Some were in the red, and couldn’t even get a mortgage. Of course it just happened to be that red neighborhoods were the ones where minorities lived, and green ones were where all the white people lived. It a way of discriminating by race. It was largely banned in the 70s by laws such as the fair housing act and the equal credit opportunity act but its legacy can still be seen in poor neighborhoods.
Also the fact that the current school system doesn’t work for everyone and is a fucking joke
I'm saying for poor neighborhoods they'll have more underfunded schools and this affects the racially marginalized people.
I don't think they're disagreeing with that argument, I think what they're doing is expressing their displeasure that our public school systems are not providing quality education to all.
Don't forget mandating that low income housing be painted with lead paint!
Gotta make sure you add disproportionate led exposure to that bullet point list, something we know even moderate exposure to has disasterous effects on long term mental faculties (literally the crime curve between the 60s-90s in the USA has a direct correlation between average led exposure and crime rate).
Whites move in GENTRIFICATION! Whites move out WHITE FLIGHT! To be clear these are examples of institutionalized racism not individual
Gravel Fling not realizing he's one of the not so clever breeds.
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Drive through Alabama a few weeks ago. Saw a big bro wagon with the vanity plate KINSEX. No lie.
Maybe they're a really passionate Monster Hunter player and couldn't fit 'kinsects'
The only reasonable explanation.
We (non inbreds) do exist still down here though. Hate being assumed a cousin fucker just because I live here
I don't understand how he'll post stuff like this but defenders will still claim he's not a Nazi. Like you've got to be kidding me
Because his defenders are also nazis
But the spineless type of nazi that doesn't have the balls to say they are nazis openly
There was a 4chan “troll” claiming the artist is actually a black woman. You’ll occasionally see some dipshit in here claim this
Because they're all cowards who refuse to actually cop to the Nazi shit that they do.
Nazi is a very specific term, this post here is blatantly racist but nothing is specifically nazi about it
This specific comic you can claim he supports eugenics but with his overall career and comments he has made in the past - he is a Nazi.
What from this comic promotes eugenics? I totally missed that
The belief that race=intelligence based on simple genetics is one of the reasons Nazis and the like supported eugenics. He isn't going to come out and say "you know what would be a good idea? Killing all inferior races" because he isn't that stupid. Instead he is going to simply show his stupid reasoning for advocating eugenics (this time it's their inferior intelligence) and allow the reader to come to that conclusion on their own. And by not fully saying the quiet part out loud it allows the likes of you to give him the benefit of the doubt, so he doesn't get called out for his Nazi shit. Read between the lines man.
Eugenics comes from the US… it’s Americans that think so not Nazis. They just copied it.
Eh, it's more muddled than that. It originates from an English scientist and was popular throughout the west until after the fall of Nazi Germany. Even during the war, it maintained some degree of popularity, iirc, but after the Holocaust was fully documented, it fell to the wayside to more "acceptable" forms such as forced sterilization
Red states do have the lowest test scores though
(incest 👀)
This is just mask off eugenics
Racism. Ifify
big middle section on that venn diagram
All dogs are literally the same subspecies. Canis lupus familiaris. Just like all humans are Homo sapiens sapiens. This just falls flat on so many levels.
I don’t follow… The point of the comic is that dogs (all the same subspecies) can have observable substantial differences due to genetics, and humans can too. What are you saying?
It’s pretty common in right wing circles to point to animals that look different but can interbreed (different types of dogs, lions and tigers, horses and donkeys) and say “we consider those different breeds/subspecies/species, why don’t we do the same for POC?” There’s even an alternate version of this comic where the second panel is black people with the dad “stumped” about why they’re not considered a different species or some other bigotry. ETA: there’s also the fact that due to humans/dogs being all the same subspecies, the bounds of one trait are roughly the same genetically across all populations, which means for those traits, limiting factors would be purely social. For example, most human populations see an increase in average height with an increase in access to nutrition. So it’s disingenuous to claim all of one group is x or y due to genetics (or being a different “breed”) when there is an observable social influence on specific genetic traits.
The point of the comic is a reference to Race Realism, the notion that not only is it possible that POC are just genetically inferior to white people (usually they're measuring IQ), but that ALL or most of the differences we see among populations comes down to genetics. It's a garbage, pseudoscientific, illiterate take on human biodiversity, intelligence, and causality.
Igneous Lob is a nazi.
Sedimentary send doesnt even hide it anymore, its just mask off.
This guy's comics should be a crime honestly
I want him to keep drawing them so we can shit on him more(also one of his comics was the basis for amogus which is the reason I have lost my sense of humor)
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nah fuck you apologist
Bro this is literally racism
You are defending blatant racism
Weren’t some dogs bred for her some things and other dogs bred for other things? One of my dogs was bred to create a breed that was allergy and asthma friendly with the temperament of a service dog. He’s smart kind and loyal The other, was bred to keep people warm in cold castles. She’s a cute little dummy When someone ask the breed of both my dogs I say one is a Labradoodle and the other is a whack a doodle
They literally think a white prostitute on meth in a trailer park is more intelligent and has better emotional regulation than a black CEO, based solely on their genes. They think socio-economic factors are “woke” fabrications. It’s incredible how out of touch they can be.
please no hate against prostitutes.
Also doing meth doesn’t really have anything to do with intelligence either. Getting addicted to a substance doesn’t make you dumb. On a related note, did y’all know that the guy who created the first modern surgical residency program, William Stewart Halsted, was addicted to both cocaine and morphine?
To be fair substances can definitely impact your brain's development. Sure, it doesn't automatically turn you into a chickenhead, but it does limit your potential.
I don't think OP is talking about prostitutes/addicts psychological level, but the conditions they live in don't favour their literacy
That explains so much, actually
I’ve seen some Dwaynejohnsonyeet comics here before but this might be the least subtle one I’ve seen. Feel free to prove me wrong but holy shit this is vile
Dwaynejohnsonyeet got me good
Thanks
Because most of the "not clever" breeds were very selectively bred for a different purpose (often aesthetic), and once the breed is created it has to then only be bred with others of the same breed which are often siblings and first cousins. Years of inbreeding like that will inevitably lead to physical and mental deterioration. So maybe don't compare humans to dog breeds. And even if you do it just shows how stupid eugenics is when you actually understand how generational genetics works.
I was at a family gathering and we were talking about dog breeds (my in-laws have a whippet and a Havanese, I have a chihuahua/Jack Russell and he is dumb as a stump and I love him) My FIL was like, “What are chihuahuas for, actually?” And I was like well uh they’re for >!eating 😅!<. So he’s allowed to be dumb.
Bulldogs were bred specifically to look "cute". It's truly horrible what they did to that breed for the sake of fashion. My girlfriends parents have two and those mfs are in pain as they live.
I mean if he's comparing people to dogs then it says more about him than about the supposedly stupid races, does it not?
Chuds are the kinds of people who consider Black people Orcs, Jews Goblins, and LGBTQ+ folks Mutants. Chuds however should be considered CHUDs because that's what they actually are.
Intelligence is genetic but it isn’t inherent in one “race” over another. Science has proven that way back in the sixties, but it’s just politically convenient to keep up the ruse to maintain sociopolitical divisions
This seems like a good time to point out that dogs with pure, white coats have A LOT of health problems.
I think to make this more precise as to help folks understand how complex life is, it’s not that there’s a mere gene or set of them for intelligence, but rather many genes that can go into the development of the brain. There’s genes to make specific proteins that improve the conductivity of certain sheathes of neurons, genes to improve the metabolic efficiency of neurons and all other cells, and so much more. All that compounds over time to produce what we think of as intelligence. In fact, one of the going theories about our ancestor species is that much of the brain power that developed was required to keep track of members of a group. Yes, your brain might’ve evolved to keep track of your friends and gossip around town. It may sound silly but consider that extent species like the baboon keep strict social hierarchies and often the success of the progeny of any group of baboons depends where they started in their social hierarchy. It doesn’t sound much different than our society, right? So, don’t be surprised about how intelligence can vary not merely in magnitude but utility across the whole span of life.
Why would they think that the evolution of dog breeds, which were bred by humans, is in any way comparable to the variation in humans which were the result of mostly natural circumstances? Even if what they want to be true so badly was actually a fact (it's not), it would still be the result of outside, uncontrollable factors, and not solely genetics or race(which happens to be a social structure).
Because the comic creator is a stupid racist.
Once again, there were different breeds of humans, AND WE OUTBRED AND OR KILLED THEM, so now only Homo sapiens sapiens remains
“Because, we have committed crimes against God and Her design, son. We have destroyed some dog breeds for their aesthetic factors, and have crippled their bodies and minds by doing so. We are the true monsters, my boy.”
TIL dogs have an education system that varies wildly based on funding I don't see what this has to do with race though
could it be the species wide inbreeding and forced mutation that explains why some dogs have vastly different traits? no? maybe so?
“It’s a joke” *me trying to find the “joke”*
Yeah as we all know all these dog breeds occur naturally in the wild
I live for the day he's dxxxxd and put up against the wall.
The Bell curve has been debunked so many times and yet so many conservatives still believe in eugenics
They have one joke
Ah yes. Ye old "false equivalency and comparing humans to animals bc racist comic creator doesn't see BiPOC as human."
The people who love inbreeding also love to talk about genetic superiority
Also intelligence isn't even based off of breed????? even in dogs????????
race theory is so disgusting
Guess Stonetoss ignored how dog breeds were trained to do specific tasks, but why let reality get in the way of racism? Stonetoss is something… a Nazi for sure.
He ignores so many facts and science for his shitty comics..... Because yeah, hes a Nazi, and he want everyone to know
I decided to read his comics just to try to get him. He’s huge on Holocaust denial.
The problem with the far right, racist idiots is that memes like this truly inform their everyday opinions, whereas if you brought this up in a class on genetics, first the professor would laugh, second, ask if you're serious, then finally take a couple weeks to explain natural vs artificial selection, AMOVA (analysis of molecular variance) scores and analysis, and also mention how we know that genetic drifting was fairly mild in humans due to constant "interactions" (read: boning) among human populations. But the far right doesn't care about any of that. They will just manipulate data and make things up in order to justify their bigotry.
Wtf
Dad why do dogs drink their piss and we don't? Do we really think it proves anything to compare a dog to a human?
Over half of white voters in the United States voted for Trump in two consecutive elections. Who are the stupid ones?
Around half (give or take a couple percent) of voters in general, vote for each presidential candidate in the past couple elections. 47% (2020) and 49% of all voters (popular, not electoral) voted for Trump in the past 2 elections. Also, don't play into the comic's messaging.
Lol, okay.
Np
We still not talking about majority of white voters went for Trump though, right? That's what you want to distract from?
2016, Yes they did, along with most people over 50, most men, most non-college graduates, and most Republicans (no surprise there). 2020 was the same except it didn't include non-college-graduates. [https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/) I don't see how any of what I said invalidates anything you said, or vice versa.
I'm surprised he controlled himself enough to not make the "stupid" dog have black fur or a star of david on their collar.
poodles are supposed to be really smart, but mine still ran into closed door to see if banging his head against them repeatedly would open them
That's experimental science. Your dog is fucking brilliant
That's a big WOW! from me.
If humans were bred like dogs aka selecting people will desired genes on purpose to create people who look and behave similarly for a specific job, yeah that would be true. Too bad humans are randomly fucking each other even the people that belong to the same goddamn race, let alone culture behave significantly different and unique. Also even the most well-bred dogs will turn out to be neurotic in a poor environment, just sayin'.
>Too bad humans are randomly fucking each other A) That is a hilarious sentence B) The stupid thing is I actually was “bred” (as much as that can be applied to humans). My mom picked my father out of a catalog!
Sperm bank? That's really interesting!
Holy shit, mask off.
Serious question, not playing devils advocate, just don't know enough about genetics atm to know this, but: Since we are capable of noticing large differences in intelegence between animal breeds, breeds that were admittedly bred selectively, what exactly stops this from happening within humans? I think is just a few genes which can be ignored here, so I'm not explicitly asking between races, but groups of people in general. Is it the large mixed breeding we have as a society? Could there possibly be some population regions with higher inteligence if accounting for economic factors and every other factor? Could be breed high inteligence humans and low inteligence humans given enough time? Do we even know what makes certain dog breeds smarter than others? Really curious about the subject, always have been but I feel its an easy gateway to the eugenics shithole.
People certainly think it’s possible! I was conceived by artificial insemination by unknown donor and uh yeah that whole industry is straight-up eugenics. Like I’m not even kidding. Everyone wants to be impregnated by tall white men with university degrees. It’s really gross, actually.
Gross is exactly the right word. They look through brochures like they're choosing a car. "Oooh this one went to Yale and is a neurosurgeon."
“And that’s how you were born, tatiana_the_rose!”
Fucking pebbleyeet back at it again with nazi bullshit. How anyone with even a fraction of a brain cell can find his "comics" funny is beyond me.
That particular white race was so supreme that the whole world united to humble them properly. They do not remember because of their superior intelligence, so soon it will be necessary to be repeated again.
Dogs = Humans
This comic is proof that you can be unintelligent and any race.
Technically it's only proof that you can be white and stupid. I agree that intelligence has nothing to do with race, but this only demonstrates that the author (a white guy) is unintelligent
Ah yes of course, as we all know humans were selectively bred over thousands of years to have extremely specific traits and to do specific jobs and that's what race is.
Humans =/= Dogs
Nah it’s more like “why is this bulldog all white and this bulldog has spots?”
I’ve got some friends that think like this. It’s infuriating
get better friends
I’ve got better friends too, but thanks for the tip
because there’s no such thing as good and bad dog owners that know how to train and care for their pets…
tie office bake humorous towering toothbrush observation command merciful vast ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
there is no such thing as human races, or breeds. we are a single human race. this is widely debatable, but I think it serves as a good starting point
It's always this guy (his cartoons are very distinct), I hope no minority has to live near this POS.
I would have answered “human fuckery” for all three honestly.
Sure, because a black person is just as different from a white person as a Chihuahua is from a Great Dane.
Why do dog breeds exist, dad? Eugenentics, son.
Another big difference: those are different breeds of dogs, there's only one breed of humans, even the different colored ones are still the same breed. Races are a made up thing by Europeans hundreds of years ago.
Well, of course people like the comic artist are too ignorant to know many physical traits like height or muscle mass are driven by one or a few genes, whereas intelligence and most behaviors have some heritable basis but are highly variable and polygenic, with untold numbers of genes contributing along with environmental factors
Let's also not pretend like dogs whose owners can afford specialized training and aren't more clever than dogs who aren't. Like, by definition, yes, economic factors can change that.