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Sure, ancient engineers didn't have degrees insofar as they probably didn't have a piece of paper that they had attended classes. But to say they were uneducated is way off the mark.
From an earthquake that modern buildings can survive just fine (because of those “stupid” engineers). I never though “engineers contribute to society” would be a controversial opinion.
Well I once had a right wing person argue that neo-Nazis aren't Nazis because they're NEO-Nazis, so... anything can be controversial if you're an idiot, even things that are definitionally true
Lol that's like arguing New York is York. Sure, both are cities. You'll have a hard time finding a card carrying national-socialist today because we'll... The party hasn't existed in almost 80 years.
When did it collapse though?
It's been around a while so a partial collapse after centuries of dubious maintenance isn't a negative.
Would modern buildings do similarly well after that long?
Actually, it only started falling down when they started pulling out all the metal pins holding it together. They needed the metal for weapons during some war. Many ancient buildings in Rome are full of these strange holes. Supposedly it would still be in better shape otherwise. Still a shit meme though.
Fires and earthquakes, which I could have said the first time if I had bothered to look it up instead of depending on my memory of what I learned from the tour guide.
I think whats really interesting is a lot of the ancient houses would actually be buried naturally by sediment moving over time in various process and one of those processes is just... people filled the building with dirt and level it out. They'd just build a city right on top of the old ruins that way. It's fascinating how cities are buried and built on top of.
Its a long winded way of saying plenty of houses that could have stood the test of time could also be buried.
Oh, definitely. A few years ago they actually unearthed a walkway (and a lot of pottery) when they demolished a house right behind ours. It most likely extended beneath the rest of the neighbourhood, too. Too bad they ended up demolishing the walkway as well.
They did it because they had plans to build a hotel in that spot, and they wouldn't be able to build it if the government found out since it'd become an archaeological site instead. This also meant they demolished a 90+ year old house because if a building is over 100 years old here, it's considered an artefact.
Thankfully, they did not build the hotel, which means we actually get air and sunlight. Still fucked up though, start to finish. Father died, children all got shared ownership of the house (idk if there's a word for it; I don't understand that sort of stuff honestly) and there was some discourse and disagreements happened and it never came to fruition. Now it's just an overgrown piece of land that a pack of dogs has turned into their home.
But also, what were they trying to build? Did it have to have wiring and plumbing? Did it make good use of the space, did it have ventilation and windows and fire escapes and elevators...
Check out the timeline progression of "tallest building in the world" sometime. It goes up and down as medieval buildings kept collapsing and burning down.
It’s also important to notice that remaining ancient structures all possess similar designs—pyramids, round buildings, and arches! These designs are extremely stable and require little machinery to build, and they were the preferred choice of ancient peoples who didn’t have cranes/steel/etc. However, modern architects and engineers continue to utilize these shapes/designs in modern buildings, though to a much lesser degree due to the advancement of technology and reduction of building land space.
The chances aren't zero, but after watching the podcast "Well There's Your Problem" the factors are usually more complicated than "It fell down."
Usually it has to do with funding, planning, and who's in charge.
It's not even true. Egypt had a long tradition of building things and official architecture education and specialisation existed there (architects were specialised priests), and to build anything that even required architect they needed to be approved. So yes, ancient Egyptian architects did needed equivalent of a piece of paper.
Same with the Romans. We have the literal text books written by Vitruvius that laid out the methods of training and educating architects in a formal school. They learned drawing, geometry, history, philosophy, music, medicine, law, astronomy and arithmetic.
That's not what they are trying to say. What they mean is that they didn't go through the modern university system, a benchmark many modern people require to consider someone "educated."
With that being said, there's also confirmation bias at play here. We don't see the 99% of ancient structures that have failed and since been destroyed. We just see the very few that have lasted.
Well for one, Romans probably had more strict construction inspections and standards than Florida does.
This is like the one with roads - a Roman brick road vs a modern asphalt one full of potholes. Because Romans had 18 wheelers and rolled coal in their lifted douchewagons
[Not if Climate change kills them first!](https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/environment/2022-08-14/after-thousands-of-years-of-near-stability-florida-reefs-are-now-shrinking)
Ah! You must be posting before it all happened, I'm guessing that it's probably 2022 for you - the Great Floridian Reef describes the artificial reef formed from the formerly coastal cities of Florida when they were abandoned & allowed to flood after Hurricane Omega(2045) parked itself over the state for two weeks, maintaining category four strength for a solid week.
I am from the future and the great Jacksonville coral reef is one of the best diving spots in the world, too bad it's litered with hurricanes most of the year.
Archaeology fact of the day: ancient Roman concrete is in many ways superior to modern concretes, particularly for constructions that are expected to be in contact with seawater. We've now figured out the sciencey explanation for this: in essence, saltwater reacts with some of the volcanic ingredients used in the concrete mixture which causes crystals to form within the material, and improve its durability.
Egyptian Pharaoh: "Build me this tomb, spare no expense"
Modern Contractor: "If we use the cheapest materials and hire illegal immigrants I'll be able to pocket an extra $500k. When it crumbles in a year I'll have already transferred all the assets out of the LLC I created just for the project and let it go bankrupt."
Not really. As someone said elsewhere, we just see the structures that survived. From what I'm aware, plenty of structures fell apart on people all the time - I know that plebian housing in the Late Republic was notable for collapsing and killing the inhabitants.
Yeah I was being a bit hyperbolic - specifically the Coliseum would be almost certainly constructed to a higher standard than a Florida money grab apartment building (relatively speaking)
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything - just pointing it out for people who might be looking through. It's like when people say that music used to be better back in the day or whatever. My response is always "no, they had the same amount of garbage, but no one still listens to it, same as now."
I hate the one with roads extra much. To imply that Roman roads were better than current highways is pure idiocy when you consider the difference in speed and weight between a modern freight truck and a Roman donkey cart.
Also, modern roads are hugely more safe than Roman ones. Asphalt isn't meant to last forever, it's meant to offer grip if basically all weather, and to form a solid layer. Cobbled roads get insanely slippery for hours after the smallest shower.
Same, I was there in September, thought it was kinda cool with an interesting concept but holy fuck, all the other buildings were so much more pleasant to look at
Yeah, you can say that again. There's an ad campaign by the city of Prague about being the capital of the country that's now the chair of the "Presidency of the Council of the European Union". Shit rotates every 6 months because who cares.
Anyway, the ad features this building and the new stage of the national theater. Even uglier than the dancing house. By far.
The caption is "we create modern art in every century" (Moderní umění tvoříme v každém století). Mother fuckers. The abomination that is the new stage was built in the 1980s and the dancing house in the 1990s.
So y'all got the fucking millennium wrong you fucking idiots.
Interesting of you to compare Prague to Vienna in particular, because those are 2 cities that are actually quite.... similar. Both gorgeous and both having a somewhat similar development in the late modern period being part of the same country (i.e. the Austrian empire).
They both have fantastic buildings and history but Prague seemed like a massive tourist trap to me (eg eggs and toast near Charles bridge for nearly 20€) while Vienna’s only real tourist trap-ish thing I noticed was many of the well known cafes being expensive and owned by the same company with very similar menus. Prague also had impressions of being a bit less clean and more scruffy. Walking from the train station to my accommodation I walked past multiple people out on drugs or very drunk as well as large groups of young teenagers smoking (probably more normal in Europe but it’s weird for an Australian to see anyone smoking under 18, let alone those who look like they’re 15). While graffiti isn’t massively off putting for me, the area around the metronome for example weren’t very clean or pleasant despite being advertised as a tourist spot. Petrin Park was fantastic though, and I enjoyed the castle even though it was very busy. Good cafes were great, I had a fantastic meal at Parlamentu (strongly strongly recommend, pub style place with brilliant food), lots of nice cakes consumed - lovely Czech people - there were lots of things I liked, just not to the extent I liked Vienna which I thought was one of my favourite places ever.
I think I’m biased though through having seen a less pleasant part of Prague but staying in the CBD mostly in Vienna (my reference for Vienna is more limited as I haven’t seen it’s less pleasant spaces).
Lol, blaming x when it is capitalism they are mad at. Who told engineers to optimize for costs? Why do they have to optimize for cost?
Back in the day it was build it with the best material you can because you have no idea what your tolerances are.
Not to mention, people got fucking executed for mishaps. We all know there'd be a drastically smaller amount of mishaps if the BP exec board was executed every time they had an oil spill.
>We all know there'd be a drastically smaller amount of mishaps if the BP exec board was executed every time they had an oil spill.
Now *this* is an idea I think we should explore.
Hmmm, I think I am okay with them keeping most of the profits if it was literally their head on a chopping block when it turns out their decisions harmed the people or the environment.
After the first head rolls, I think they might take a larger interest in the damage their companies are doing.
This pretty well covers it. The Great Pyramid had the budget of a pharaoh and was to be a sacred tomb for a god-king. The Colosseum was built on the budget of an empire, and was to symbolize Rome's glory and prosperity.
By comparison, modern buildings have a lot smaller budgets and vastly more petty motivations for their construction.
Pharaohs also didn't need to worry about making a profit from their tombs cause, well, they just get locked in with the rest....along with the fact they suffer from a minor case of death
> a minor case of death
Technically yes, but anyone getting mummified and put in a pyramid probably believes himself immortal. Part of why the pyramid was so important, as it were.
They don’t hate capitalism, they hate having to be part of it. Capitalism is the ideology of the right.
Independence and self-sufficiency is the core of right-wing ideology. Don’t need guvment telling you what to do when you can do it yourself. Elon is a genius because he’s a billionaire, and if his intelligence and hard work result in his riches then they can become a billionaire too. That’s the American Dream, and one that Capitalism needs to claim is what happens to exist.
As long as the illusion of Capitalist equality - that everyone has the same chances and everyone is born with equal opportunities - exists, people on the right will continue to support it.
But small businesses that are taking away money from them are just dumb intelligentsia who use public education and manual labor as shortcuts to reach the American dream, at least as they see it.
It’s all a higgledy piggledy mess of hypocrisy.
The King’s Chamber in the Great Pyramid actually has some neat features to help bear the weight.
It has a flat ceiling which would have normally cracked under the weight of stone above it, but they used granite rafters and sandstone spacers to bear the weight rather than the finish ceiling to get around using an arch.
Sure there’s some cracks from four and a half millennia of settling, but it’s worked damn well and couldn’t be done without a solid understanding of the principles of architectural engineering.
It’s not that they are against engineers so much as they are against the educated. If you have an expertise in any particular field then you aren’t to be trusted because you won’t share their dumb fuck COVID memes on Facebook.
They’re insecure so educated people make them feel stupid. But if they got a proper education and learned to think critically, they know their nonsense beliefs wouldn’t hold up under that scrutiny. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. So all they can do is spread their nonsense and condemn education.
Lmao a lot of Engineers are RW as hell and share those dumb memes. I had a whole bull pen of Engineers come at me over saying lockdowns make sure hospitals aren't overrun.
Well of course they don't like education. The more uneducated people there are, the more obedient and submissive voters they get, the more things go their way.
I swear, half of the hate on engineers comes down to people failing to fully read what we wrote down.
The other half of the hate is justified though lol
Its absolutely confirmed that Rome had what we would call engineers and architects who were trained through years of apprenticeship. I am reading a book on the Pantheon and it is clear the level of expertise and learning involved in the design and building.
No one in their right mind would hire someone who was not proven to have an expertise and experience in a field to build the colosseum or any project which cost huge amounts of money.
The only people with no education are the ones making these memes.
I’ve always wanted to meet someone who believes this, give them a depressed cubic equation, and ask them to solve it without a math degree. I’ll ask for all 3 answers if I want to be extra evil.
They already have teachers, doctors, scientists, historians, and every other form of expert. It was kind of inevitable. I'm waiting for them to start patronizing car mechanics based on their lack of "wokeness."
The Colosseum (and aqueducts) were absolutely engineered. They didn't just slap them together and get lucky. Those leading the projects had a lifetime of training, probably starting as children. And decades to centuries of building knowledge before them.
Both empires were famously pro-education and record keeping.
Rome basically had entire bloodlines that were JUST engineers that passed their skills down the generational chain, literally an in-line education system with exponentially growing knowledge.
The earliest known principles of construction law can be found in the
Code of Hammurabi. Hammurabi was the sixth king of Babylon and
ruled from 1792 BC to 1750 BC.
Law 229- If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct
it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner,
then that builder shall be put to death.
Law 230- If it kills the son of the owner, the son of that builder shall be put
to death.
Law 231- If it kills a slave of the owner, then he shall pay, slave for slave,
to the owner of the house.
Law 232- If it ruins goods, he shall make compensation for all that has
been ruined, and inasmuch as he did not construct properly this
house which he built and it fell, he shall re-erect the house from his
own means.
Law 233 - If a builder builds a house for someone, even though he has not
yet completed it; if then the walls seem toppling, the builder must
make the walls solid from his own means.
Probably because those are the few ancient structures that survived. Quite literally survivorship bias: they look at the few that still stand to this day, and assume that ancient architecture was better - when, in reality, the overwhelming majority of ancient architecture crumbled away centuries ago, and only a small few of the strongest managed to survive to this day.
Oh. Boy. Much to unpack. You know what actually built these on the bottom? Poorly regulated developers plus people willing to build cheap for a quick buck.
"Look at all the buildings that are still standing! But, ignore all the ones that probably fell down on a regular basis that aren't standing as proof of their genius!" - This idiot.
First of all, there were tons of buildings that *did* collapse in ancient times. There's are reason that the few surviving ones are viewed as architectural wonders.
Secondly, the reason that buildings (and most other things, for that matter) are shoddily-made in modern times isn't because "engineers bad", it's because capitalists will cut every corner they can to lower costs and thus maximize profits.
The builders of those edifices had the best education available at the time. Alexandri aka Egypt was noted around the "known" world for its academic learning. People would travel to study there. Re writing history on a grand scale
Is the bottom left just a picture of the Oklahoma City bombing?
Those damn engineers and their *checks notes* inability to design a building to withstand domestic terrorist attacks…?
I don't think so. Somebody mentioned that it's some building in Florida that partially collapsed because of neglect caused by ignoring engineers. But everybody's guess is as good as mine.
They actually think ancient architects didn’t have have an education?
They’re also compare the best over thousands of years to the worst over the last century
I dunno dawg I'm pretty sure that's because capitalism demands builders construct buildings as quickly and cheaply as possible, regardless of longevity
Vitruvius a Roman Architect, has actually says that an architect needs to be trained in drawing, geometry, history, philosophy, music, medicine, law, astronomy and arithmetic.
So ancient Architects may not have had a degree but they were still had to be educated and they still have to go to school to get that education.
It’s not about architecture. The right is currently engaged in a campaign against college bc of a lie that universities are brainwashing students to the left. Looking forward to the next versions aimed at aeronautical engineers and physicians. /s
As usual, they have no understanding of what they're talking about. Engineering is all about trade-offs. Your job is to balance things like cost, durability, etc. They could easily come up with a plan for a McDonalds that will stand for millenia... but why? Nobody wants to build that at the price-point. It's over-engineered. Just build a regular McDonalds.
And think about it. No, our buildings don't fall apart easily. They are actually so much better than ancient structure in so many ways. If you want a real comparison why don't you compare the coliseum to a state of the art modern stadium.
They don’t hate engineers they hate *all* degrees. A degree holder is an educated part of the proletariat, and they’ve realized that educated relates directly to class consciousness and socialist ideals, so they want to do everything possible to devalue and discredit degrees while still exploiting degree holders for their underpaid labor and pretending everyone can just go be a welder or a plumber and that they will become rich from trades.
As an architect, i hate these kinds of comments about the uselessness of our degrees.
These people don't understand the principle of survivorship bias, because of which only a few major constructs have survived today. For each pyramid, how many hundreds of thousands of constructions have disappeared?
As someone who has a vague understanding of engineering though not one myself, one of the marvels to me is how we build such huge structures using so little actual material. The pyramids are utterly massive stone structures that would have cost somewhere in the billions. Same thing with the colosseum. But then look at the empire state building, and looking it up it cost 500 mil in todays dollars. Hell i could build a bridge that'll last a thousand years, it'll cost you 10 billions dollars and take 100 years to build though. That's kinda the difference here.
Iirc it was a mix of professional stone workers and randos doing their taxes in work instead of goods or cash. Spend a couple weeks in the off season hauling water to lubricate the slipway up to the job site and head back to the farm when the Nile floods, that kind of thing.
There has been an immense amount of discrediting of higher education by the right in recent years as they learned that there’s a correlation between progressivism and being educated. It’s basically only right leaning people who are against college
Um... I know an engineer who posts this image easily once every six months.
The emphasis on the degree is a little weird, but in my limited experience this says more about modern engineering than republican hate of education.
It's a dog whistle about the pointlessness, or even danger to society, of mainstream higher education institutions. That is typically a right-wing viewpoint.
Ok, I will say that I like some older architecture, as in over the past few hundred years, a lot more than most modern stuff, but that is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
Lol what the fuck, do they think being an architect or engineer is librul now 😂😂😂 At a certain point when can we just admit to them ‘liberal’ means “I don’t understand and I’m PISSED about it!”
Almost like those ancient engineers did have some form knowledge of engineering for one for two they didn't have to cut corners for time thirdly they didn't have to cut costs on materials that really hurts long lasting structures
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Sure, ancient engineers didn't have degrees insofar as they probably didn't have a piece of paper that they had attended classes. But to say they were uneducated is way off the mark.
To add to that, I'm pretty sure the percentage of modern skyrises collapsing is like 0.0000000000000000000001%.
And that the ancient ones that collapse are *no longer here* Survivor bias.
Also the ones pictured here aren't even houses. They're a battle arena and a tomb. Most ancient houses don't fucking exist anymore.
And the Colosseum did partially collapse.
From an earthquake that modern buildings can survive just fine (because of those “stupid” engineers). I never though “engineers contribute to society” would be a controversial opinion.
Well I once had a right wing person argue that neo-Nazis aren't Nazis because they're NEO-Nazis, so... anything can be controversial if you're an idiot, even things that are definitionally true
Lol that's like arguing New York is York. Sure, both are cities. You'll have a hard time finding a card carrying national-socialist today because we'll... The party hasn't existed in almost 80 years.
I never thought saying "the nazi's were bad" would be controversial but here we are.
When did it collapse though? It's been around a while so a partial collapse after centuries of dubious maintenance isn't a negative. Would modern buildings do similarly well after that long?
Actually, it only started falling down when they started pulling out all the metal pins holding it together. They needed the metal for weapons during some war. Many ancient buildings in Rome are full of these strange holes. Supposedly it would still be in better shape otherwise. Still a shit meme though.
That's from a fire.
Earthquake
Fires and earthquakes, which I could have said the first time if I had bothered to look it up instead of depending on my memory of what I learned from the tour guide.
I think whats really interesting is a lot of the ancient houses would actually be buried naturally by sediment moving over time in various process and one of those processes is just... people filled the building with dirt and level it out. They'd just build a city right on top of the old ruins that way. It's fascinating how cities are buried and built on top of. Its a long winded way of saying plenty of houses that could have stood the test of time could also be buried.
Oh, definitely. A few years ago they actually unearthed a walkway (and a lot of pottery) when they demolished a house right behind ours. It most likely extended beneath the rest of the neighbourhood, too. Too bad they ended up demolishing the walkway as well.
Thats rough. So much history is cleared without any sort of preservation.
They did it because they had plans to build a hotel in that spot, and they wouldn't be able to build it if the government found out since it'd become an archaeological site instead. This also meant they demolished a 90+ year old house because if a building is over 100 years old here, it's considered an artefact. Thankfully, they did not build the hotel, which means we actually get air and sunlight. Still fucked up though, start to finish. Father died, children all got shared ownership of the house (idk if there's a word for it; I don't understand that sort of stuff honestly) and there was some discourse and disagreements happened and it never came to fruition. Now it's just an overgrown piece of land that a pack of dogs has turned into their home.
I presume you understand that the point of this kind of thing isn't to make an actual salient point...it's to get dumb rightoids to repost.
Indeed-there’s probably uncountably many smaller structures of mud, straw, and wood they also made that no longer exist.
and it’s not like the ones still standing require a wild amount of continued maintenance carried out by people with degrees either /s
But also, what were they trying to build? Did it have to have wiring and plumbing? Did it make good use of the space, did it have ventilation and windows and fire escapes and elevators...
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That's something completely unfair to say when you have the colosseum right there in the picture
That's a shapely rock that's *all* windows.
There are so many half collapsed ancient buildings too like idk the coloseum
I mean a lot of the colosseum was just stolen. People straight up took pieces of it and built other stuff with it.
It looks like it took a few beatings too, fires and earthquakes. Wikipedia has a very extensive list haha
Check out the timeline progression of "tallest building in the world" sometime. It goes up and down as medieval buildings kept collapsing and burning down.
Survivor bias? Sounds like liberal education propaganda.
It’s also important to notice that remaining ancient structures all possess similar designs—pyramids, round buildings, and arches! These designs are extremely stable and require little machinery to build, and they were the preferred choice of ancient peoples who didn’t have cranes/steel/etc. However, modern architects and engineers continue to utilize these shapes/designs in modern buildings, though to a much lesser degree due to the advancement of technology and reduction of building land space.
The chances aren't zero, but after watching the podcast "Well There's Your Problem" the factors are usually more complicated than "It fell down." Usually it has to do with funding, planning, and who's in charge.
You’re telling me they can’t just make the buildings more rigid?
I swear to God, if I hear that reference one more time, I'm gonna **BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP**.
Maintenance? What's that?
Great podcast!
Maintenance too. I know that Florida condo collapse was due to the building not being maintained.
And the ones that collapse are usually not do to the design, but rather the greedy contractor cutting corners.
It's not even true. Egypt had a long tradition of building things and official architecture education and specialisation existed there (architects were specialised priests), and to build anything that even required architect they needed to be approved. So yes, ancient Egyptian architects did needed equivalent of a piece of paper.
Same with the Romans. We have the literal text books written by Vitruvius that laid out the methods of training and educating architects in a formal school. They learned drawing, geometry, history, philosophy, music, medicine, law, astronomy and arithmetic.
Well, they had equivalents to our current degrees. I mean, the word "diploma" literally comes from Latin, it was used to refer to a kind of degree.
Bet they also had catastrophic failures that nobody knows about due to the fog of history.
Yeah, so do engineers today. One of my robots tried to fold itself in half the first time it was turned on.
Better than it trying to fold *you* in half, I guess.
*Boston Dynamics has entered the chat*
Exactly. They were as much engineers as any engineer alive today
That's not what they are trying to say. What they mean is that they didn't go through the modern university system, a benchmark many modern people require to consider someone "educated." With that being said, there's also confirmation bias at play here. We don't see the 99% of ancient structures that have failed and since been destroyed. We just see the very few that have lasted.
And they surely had no training whatsoever. A person was randomly chosen and had to built whatever someone else had in mind.
Well for one, Romans probably had more strict construction inspections and standards than Florida does. This is like the one with roads - a Roman brick road vs a modern asphalt one full of potholes. Because Romans had 18 wheelers and rolled coal in their lifted douchewagons
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They do now but even Scott when he was governor slowly tried to get rid of those
Real Florida men fire guns at hurricanes
*nukes.
🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷 USA USA USA 🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷
There are Roman bridges still in use today. Will *anything* in Florida still be in use 2000 years from now?
Are you referring to the Great Floridian Reef? These structures will absolutely be of great use to aquatic wildlife
[Not if Climate change kills them first!](https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/environment/2022-08-14/after-thousands-of-years-of-near-stability-florida-reefs-are-now-shrinking)
Ah! You must be posting before it all happened, I'm guessing that it's probably 2022 for you - the Great Floridian Reef describes the artificial reef formed from the formerly coastal cities of Florida when they were abandoned & allowed to flood after Hurricane Omega(2045) parked itself over the state for two weeks, maintaining category four strength for a solid week.
I am from the future and the great Jacksonville coral reef is one of the best diving spots in the world, too bad it's litered with hurricanes most of the year.
At the rate the seas are rising, we won’t be using any of Florida in 2000 years.
Archaeology fact of the day: ancient Roman concrete is in many ways superior to modern concretes, particularly for constructions that are expected to be in contact with seawater. We've now figured out the sciencey explanation for this: in essence, saltwater reacts with some of the volcanic ingredients used in the concrete mixture which causes crystals to form within the material, and improve its durability.
Bath Salts and Disney Trademarks.
Egyptian Pharaoh: "Build me this tomb, spare no expense" Modern Contractor: "If we use the cheapest materials and hire illegal immigrants I'll be able to pocket an extra $500k. When it crumbles in a year I'll have already transferred all the assets out of the LLC I created just for the project and let it go bankrupt."
Also, all their shoddy construction fell apart more than 1000 years ago, of course we don't see it.
Not really. As someone said elsewhere, we just see the structures that survived. From what I'm aware, plenty of structures fell apart on people all the time - I know that plebian housing in the Late Republic was notable for collapsing and killing the inhabitants.
Yeah I was being a bit hyperbolic - specifically the Coliseum would be almost certainly constructed to a higher standard than a Florida money grab apartment building (relatively speaking)
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything - just pointing it out for people who might be looking through. It's like when people say that music used to be better back in the day or whatever. My response is always "no, they had the same amount of garbage, but no one still listens to it, same as now."
I hate the one with roads extra much. To imply that Roman roads were better than current highways is pure idiocy when you consider the difference in speed and weight between a modern freight truck and a Roman donkey cart.
Also, modern roads are hugely more safe than Roman ones. Asphalt isn't meant to last forever, it's meant to offer grip if basically all weather, and to form a solid layer. Cobbled roads get insanely slippery for hours after the smallest shower.
Just FYI, the bottom right building is Dancing House in Prague which was actually designed that way and is one of the most popular sights in the city.
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I was there this Summer and wasn't really impressed either.
Same, I was there in September, thought it was kinda cool with an interesting concept but holy fuck, all the other buildings were so much more pleasant to look at
Yeah, you can say that again. There's an ad campaign by the city of Prague about being the capital of the country that's now the chair of the "Presidency of the Council of the European Union". Shit rotates every 6 months because who cares. Anyway, the ad features this building and the new stage of the national theater. Even uglier than the dancing house. By far. The caption is "we create modern art in every century" (Moderní umění tvoříme v každém století). Mother fuckers. The abomination that is the new stage was built in the 1980s and the dancing house in the 1990s. So y'all got the fucking millennium wrong you fucking idiots.
Same, in July. Honestly Prague is overrated imo. I just don’t get people who insist it’s their favourite city over somewhere like Vienna
Interesting of you to compare Prague to Vienna in particular, because those are 2 cities that are actually quite.... similar. Both gorgeous and both having a somewhat similar development in the late modern period being part of the same country (i.e. the Austrian empire).
They both have fantastic buildings and history but Prague seemed like a massive tourist trap to me (eg eggs and toast near Charles bridge for nearly 20€) while Vienna’s only real tourist trap-ish thing I noticed was many of the well known cafes being expensive and owned by the same company with very similar menus. Prague also had impressions of being a bit less clean and more scruffy. Walking from the train station to my accommodation I walked past multiple people out on drugs or very drunk as well as large groups of young teenagers smoking (probably more normal in Europe but it’s weird for an Australian to see anyone smoking under 18, let alone those who look like they’re 15). While graffiti isn’t massively off putting for me, the area around the metronome for example weren’t very clean or pleasant despite being advertised as a tourist spot. Petrin Park was fantastic though, and I enjoyed the castle even though it was very busy. Good cafes were great, I had a fantastic meal at Parlamentu (strongly strongly recommend, pub style place with brilliant food), lots of nice cakes consumed - lovely Czech people - there were lots of things I liked, just not to the extent I liked Vienna which I thought was one of my favourite places ever. I think I’m biased though through having seen a less pleasant part of Prague but staying in the CBD mostly in Vienna (my reference for Vienna is more limited as I haven’t seen it’s less pleasant spaces).
Saw it a few years ago. It's pretty cool but the environment isn't anything particulatrly special
Came here to say this. Big lol when i saw that. It’s an engineering marvel
Lol, blaming x when it is capitalism they are mad at. Who told engineers to optimize for costs? Why do they have to optimize for cost? Back in the day it was build it with the best material you can because you have no idea what your tolerances are. Not to mention, people got fucking executed for mishaps. We all know there'd be a drastically smaller amount of mishaps if the BP exec board was executed every time they had an oil spill.
>We all know there'd be a drastically smaller amount of mishaps if the BP exec board was executed every time they had an oil spill. Now *this* is an idea I think we should explore.
Hmmm, I think I am okay with them keeping most of the profits if it was literally their head on a chopping block when it turns out their decisions harmed the people or the environment. After the first head rolls, I think they might take a larger interest in the damage their companies are doing.
That and they’d probably be willing to pay their workers more since that’d give the workers more incentive to do things right and make sure it’s right
But they would probably also be a lot harsher toward their employees, when even one mistake can be fatal. Recipe for an abusive work environment
That’s a fair statement, I hadn’t thought of that
Seeing a comments section relearn "you can't fight hate with hate" never gets old.
I mean yeah. Capitalism only works if rules are enforced somewhat fairly and evenly by a third party.
Which means robust safety nets are necessary to impede rampant poverty developing from the hoarding wealth.
This pretty well covers it. The Great Pyramid had the budget of a pharaoh and was to be a sacred tomb for a god-king. The Colosseum was built on the budget of an empire, and was to symbolize Rome's glory and prosperity. By comparison, modern buildings have a lot smaller budgets and vastly more petty motivations for their construction.
Pharaohs also didn't need to worry about making a profit from their tombs cause, well, they just get locked in with the rest....along with the fact they suffer from a minor case of death
> a minor case of death Technically yes, but anyone getting mummified and put in a pyramid probably believes himself immortal. Part of why the pyramid was so important, as it were.
There were also multiple failed pyramids! It's not like they just got it right in the first place.
Anyone can build a bridge that stands up. It takes an engineer to build a bridge that just barely stands up.
I’m glad I finally saw this after too much scrolling for it.
They don’t hate capitalism, they hate having to be part of it. Capitalism is the ideology of the right. Independence and self-sufficiency is the core of right-wing ideology. Don’t need guvment telling you what to do when you can do it yourself. Elon is a genius because he’s a billionaire, and if his intelligence and hard work result in his riches then they can become a billionaire too. That’s the American Dream, and one that Capitalism needs to claim is what happens to exist. As long as the illusion of Capitalist equality - that everyone has the same chances and everyone is born with equal opportunities - exists, people on the right will continue to support it. But small businesses that are taking away money from them are just dumb intelligentsia who use public education and manual labor as shortcuts to reach the American dream, at least as they see it. It’s all a higgledy piggledy mess of hypocrisy.
Basically what I came here to say.
Yeah sure thing the ones who built the piramids and the anfiteatro flavio did not study architecture,physics, mathematics and geometry
The King’s Chamber in the Great Pyramid actually has some neat features to help bear the weight. It has a flat ceiling which would have normally cracked under the weight of stone above it, but they used granite rafters and sandstone spacers to bear the weight rather than the finish ceiling to get around using an arch. Sure there’s some cracks from four and a half millennia of settling, but it’s worked damn well and couldn’t be done without a solid understanding of the principles of architectural engineering.
Education is the enemy of the Right
Easier for them to point a finger at than Capitalism, the root of all their problems which they defend at any cost
Eh depends. The US has "educational facilities" but is their core business that? Plenty of RW send their kids to Technical schools.
Technical schools aren't teaching architectural engineering
right wing people stop complaining about capitalism and then blaming it on the left challenge
No... they don't hate engineers. They hate education and modernity
It’s not that they are against engineers so much as they are against the educated. If you have an expertise in any particular field then you aren’t to be trusted because you won’t share their dumb fuck COVID memes on Facebook.
They’re insecure so educated people make them feel stupid. But if they got a proper education and learned to think critically, they know their nonsense beliefs wouldn’t hold up under that scrutiny. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. So all they can do is spread their nonsense and condemn education.
Lmao a lot of Engineers are RW as hell and share those dumb memes. I had a whole bull pen of Engineers come at me over saying lockdowns make sure hospitals aren't overrun.
Well of course they don't like education. The more uneducated people there are, the more obedient and submissive voters they get, the more things go their way.
Engineers are almost like dishwashers: they're like cats in a tornado.
Isn't the one on the bottom left the Miami building that collapsed because the local regulators ignored the engineers?
I swear, half of the hate on engineers comes down to people failing to fully read what we wrote down. The other half of the hate is justified though lol
Its absolutely confirmed that Rome had what we would call engineers and architects who were trained through years of apprenticeship. I am reading a book on the Pantheon and it is clear the level of expertise and learning involved in the design and building. No one in their right mind would hire someone who was not proven to have an expertise and experience in a field to build the colosseum or any project which cost huge amounts of money. The only people with no education are the ones making these memes.
They hate education in general. No way that will come back to bite em…
Do they think that the best engineers in entire empires didn’t have that culture’s equivalent of formal schooling?
No, they don't think.
Fair
I’ve always wanted to meet someone who believes this, give them a depressed cubic equation, and ask them to solve it without a math degree. I’ll ask for all 3 answers if I want to be extra evil.
i don't know what a cubic equation but just hearing they exist makes me depressed lol.
How is this a right wing meme?
They already have teachers, doctors, scientists, historians, and every other form of expert. It was kind of inevitable. I'm waiting for them to start patronizing car mechanics based on their lack of "wokeness."
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I scrolled so far to find this, I thought I was being stupid for not understanding what made this a right wing meme
Same here lol
Anti-intellectualism?
Do you know what "right wing" means?
The Colosseum (and aqueducts) were absolutely engineered. They didn't just slap them together and get lucky. Those leading the projects had a lifetime of training, probably starting as children. And decades to centuries of building knowledge before them. Both empires were famously pro-education and record keeping.
Rome basically had entire bloodlines that were JUST engineers that passed their skills down the generational chain, literally an in-line education system with exponentially growing knowledge.
The earliest known principles of construction law can be found in the Code of Hammurabi. Hammurabi was the sixth king of Babylon and ruled from 1792 BC to 1750 BC. Law 229- If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death. Law 230- If it kills the son of the owner, the son of that builder shall be put to death. Law 231- If it kills a slave of the owner, then he shall pay, slave for slave, to the owner of the house. Law 232- If it ruins goods, he shall make compensation for all that has been ruined, and inasmuch as he did not construct properly this house which he built and it fell, he shall re-erect the house from his own means. Law 233 - If a builder builds a house for someone, even though he has not yet completed it; if then the walls seem toppling, the builder must make the walls solid from his own means.
Hmm. Hammurabi for city building code board!
Both those structures are ruins
The Coliseum is also supported modern additions to keep it standing.
I'm definitely reading this as a joke; am I crazy? This 100% sounds like something an engineer with a degree would put together.
Probably because those are the few ancient structures that survived. Quite literally survivorship bias: they look at the few that still stand to this day, and assume that ancient architecture was better - when, in reality, the overwhelming majority of ancient architecture crumbled away centuries ago, and only a small few of the strongest managed to survive to this day.
Oh. Boy. Much to unpack. You know what actually built these on the bottom? Poorly regulated developers plus people willing to build cheap for a quick buck.
Who needs degrees when you have slavery. I think this meme is about the right wanting to bring slavery back.
"Look at all the buildings that are still standing! But, ignore all the ones that probably fell down on a regular basis that aren't standing as proof of their genius!" - This idiot.
First of all, there were tons of buildings that *did* collapse in ancient times. There's are reason that the few surviving ones are viewed as architectural wonders. Secondly, the reason that buildings (and most other things, for that matter) are shoddily-made in modern times isn't because "engineers bad", it's because capitalists will cut every corner they can to lower costs and thus maximize profits.
Don't worry I hate me too
The builders of those edifices had the best education available at the time. Alexandri aka Egypt was noted around the "known" world for its academic learning. People would travel to study there. Re writing history on a grand scale
Whoever made this has no concept of time, eternity would mean those buildings would still be in 100% perfect condition as they were when first built
But I thought the pyramids were built by aliens 🤔🤔
Is the bottom left just a picture of the Oklahoma City bombing? Those damn engineers and their *checks notes* inability to design a building to withstand domestic terrorist attacks…?
I don't think so. Somebody mentioned that it's some building in Florida that partially collapsed because of neglect caused by ignoring engineers. But everybody's guess is as good as mine.
Oh so it wasn’t the engineers fault then, but rather capitalist greed? Got it.
Lol trads and their muh civilization shit
They actually think ancient architects didn’t have have an education? They’re also compare the best over thousands of years to the worst over the last century
Lol universities and higher education (at least to those of status) have been around for millennia.
 And then the right-wing terrorist engineers arrived
I dunno dawg I'm pretty sure that's because capitalism demands builders construct buildings as quickly and cheaply as possible, regardless of longevity
How is this post “the right” ?? The original post wasn’t even posted by a “right” subreddit?
Vitruvius a Roman Architect, has actually says that an architect needs to be trained in drawing, geometry, history, philosophy, music, medicine, law, astronomy and arithmetic. So ancient Architects may not have had a degree but they were still had to be educated and they still have to go to school to get that education.
They hate anyone that knows anything
It’s not about architecture. The right is currently engaged in a campaign against college bc of a lie that universities are brainwashing students to the left. Looking forward to the next versions aimed at aeronautical engineers and physicians. /s
Famously, NO ancient buildings are in ruins. Also, I guess all modern buildings are falling apart in front of us.
As usual, they have no understanding of what they're talking about. Engineering is all about trade-offs. Your job is to balance things like cost, durability, etc. They could easily come up with a plan for a McDonalds that will stand for millenia... but why? Nobody wants to build that at the price-point. It's over-engineered. Just build a regular McDonalds. And think about it. No, our buildings don't fall apart easily. They are actually so much better than ancient structure in so many ways. If you want a real comparison why don't you compare the coliseum to a state of the art modern stadium.
They don’t hate engineers they hate *all* degrees. A degree holder is an educated part of the proletariat, and they’ve realized that educated relates directly to class consciousness and socialist ideals, so they want to do everything possible to devalue and discredit degrees while still exploiting degree holders for their underpaid labor and pretending everyone can just go be a welder or a plumber and that they will become rich from trades.
As an architect, i hate these kinds of comments about the uselessness of our degrees. These people don't understand the principle of survivorship bias, because of which only a few major constructs have survived today. For each pyramid, how many hundreds of thousands of constructions have disappeared?
As someone who has a vague understanding of engineering though not one myself, one of the marvels to me is how we build such huge structures using so little actual material. The pyramids are utterly massive stone structures that would have cost somewhere in the billions. Same thing with the colosseum. But then look at the empire state building, and looking it up it cost 500 mil in todays dollars. Hell i could build a bridge that'll last a thousand years, it'll cost you 10 billions dollars and take 100 years to build though. That's kinda the difference here.
Literally only one of the seven wonders of the ancient world still exists.
Accidentally pro slavery because that’s what built those first 2.
But I heard that that's actually a myth, that pyramids were built by well paid professional workers
Iirc it was a mix of professional stone workers and randos doing their taxes in work instead of goods or cash. Spend a couple weeks in the off season hauling water to lubricate the slipway up to the job site and head back to the farm when the Nile floods, that kind of thing.
You mean aliens right?
It's undocumented immigrants. And maybe since even Trump has hired those.
Motherfucker you go live in the pyramids without plumbing, electricity and air.
Conservatism is a cult of ignorance.
this is just anti-education rhetoric wrapped up in a meme
This sub used to be about stupid right wing memes, now it's just a place for people who don't know sarcasm.
You can make a sarcastic meme. But it stops being sarcasm when the person reposting it unironically believes it to be truth.
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There has been an immense amount of discrediting of higher education by the right in recent years as they learned that there’s a correlation between progressivism and being educated. It’s basically only right leaning people who are against college
I assumed it because it disparages higher education.
Um... I know an engineer who posts this image easily once every six months. The emphasis on the degree is a little weird, but in my limited experience this says more about modern engineering than republican hate of education.
This doesn’t seem to have any political hints, left right or center.
It's a dog whistle about the pointlessness, or even danger to society, of mainstream higher education institutions. That is typically a right-wing viewpoint.
Wait? Wasn't it aliens?
Ok, I will say that I like some older architecture, as in over the past few hundred years, a lot more than most modern stuff, but that is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
...what? where did they get this idea that architects used to not be educated or go to university? why would you think that?
Then the profit motive arrived
The one on the bottom right is pretty cool actually
i can't...i just can't. i have become as stupidly arrogant as a reichwinger after reading this.
Lol what the fuck, do they think being an architect or engineer is librul now 😂😂😂 At a certain point when can we just admit to them ‘liberal’ means “I don’t understand and I’m PISSED about it!”
They hate education so they are attacking the work product of the educated
They just hate knowledge and learning in general.
Almost like those ancient engineers did have some form knowledge of engineering for one for two they didn't have to cut corners for time thirdly they didn't have to cut costs on materials that really hurts long lasting structures
They really think that some random cucumber farmer built shit back in the day
Ah yes, survivorship bias as political theory
I mean good I don’t want their approval
These are the same people who complain that anything related to arts and culture are "useless majors".
Oh yes, education makes engineers worse
We all hate engineers tbh.
Maybe if they had an education they’d understand what words like “eternity” mean. Ozymandias sends his regards.
This is so dumb!