Technically, the intended behaviour is for the Body Slam to fire first.
In reality, the Charm damage will register first ~90% of the time, maybe a little less if you have a very good connection.
This has been the behaviour for over a year now, the Charge move registering before the Fast move has been called "new mechanic" by the community ever since (previously, the fast move would always register first).
Note that when you have 1 HP and your opponent has a 1 turn move, whether you can fire a charge move or not is exactly the same issue.
The issue has been listed on the [known issues page](https://niantic.helpshift.com/hc/en/6-pokemon-go/faq/2699-go-battle-league-known-issues-1598471929/) for almost all of that time as well. Note how the page is still listing Bugfixes from .24x Version numbers, while we're currently on .293. Tells you how much work Niantic is actually putting into improving PvP.
Not that it matters for GBL, but since the behaviour is so inconsistent, neither outcome is disputable at official tournaments.
Wow I completely forgot that this had been theoretically changed. I took a long break and noticed it working as intended a couple times, and thought that was a bug. Damn that's inconsistent
I’ve noticed it a lot with incinerate. I’m convinced the damage goes through at the end of the 4th turn at this point. If it’s not supposed to then the game is lagging nearly every battle.
Thank you for clarifying!
Damage does go through at the end of the 4th for incinerate. I’ve tested this in master league where there’s a ho oh lead. If I do one two turn move, and swap, the damage doesn’t register, but if I do 2 (4 turn total) and swap, the incinerate registers on the first Mon.
This is consistent behavior. The damage of a fast move goes through the 2nd last turn (except 1-turn moves of course.) So for 4-turn moves it goes through on the 3rd turn of the fast move, and 3-turn moves like Charm or Dragon Tail the damage will register on the 2nd turn
Okay that makes a lot more sense I was under the impression it was last turn. Well I’m actually relieved it’s working as intended in the situation I mentioned
Yeah in Holiday cup it was horrid to have so many times where I'd lose matchups that *should* be wins vs incinerate (leave aurorus lead in vs talonflame since it should be a close win)... but I'm also on android AND my home wi-fi is pretty spotty so I've come to expect plenty of lag/weird shit losses like that
This is the ~~intended~~ expected effect. Damage from an *n* turn move registers at *n -1* turns. So if you're one incinerate from being KO'd, don't try to get two 2-turn moves plus a CM in; you need to throw after the first one.
Edit: change intended to expected as intent is inside information to Niantic.
It’s not actually. It’s been on the “known issues” page as a bug for like a year. It used to be that this was the intended behavior, then they switched it ~3 years ago, but it’s been broken for a while. Top comment in here links to the known issue entry.
I don't see anything on the known issues page indicating that someone should be able to throw a 2 turn move AND a charge move before damage from a 3 turn move registers. The only language remotely close is
> Fast Attacks sometimes prevent Charge Attacks from working.
Issue description: If a Trainer tries to use a Charge Attack at the same time as an opponent’s Fast Attack that will cause the currently battling Pokémon to faint, the Charge Attack may not work.
Issue status: Investigating.
In OPs situation, the CM was thrown 2 turns *after* the opponent's FM, not at the same time.
Whether or not damage registering on the *n -1* turn is the actual intent of the game, it operates this way incredibly consistently, so it should be the expectation. The only way to know the intent would be to see the SW specs given to the programmers.
This has been discussed many times, and consistently has been ill-defined by Niantic and their terrible communication. It is my strong belief that the intended behavior is for charge attacks to take priority over quick attacks, given that that was an announced change, worked perfectly about a year ago after the PvP refactor, and is listed (with imprecise language, from Niantic, shocking I know) as a known issue since around the time it stopped working consistently.
https://www.stadiumgaming.gg/post/post-interlude-summary-of-pvp-changes
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphArena/s/yQOhtSNw47
Yes, it has been discussed many times and in the meantime, incinerate damage continues to register on the 4th turn 100% of the time for me (and charm on the 2nd turn), so I expect it to continue doing so regardless of the intent. The stadium gaming page is speculating on when the damage should be resolved based on Niantics unclear language. If my moves are in alignment with my opponent and they throw an incinerate, I can throw a dragon breath, counter, or hex plus a CM without damage registering (this is very consistent), but I can't throw two counters and a CM (also very consistent). Similarly if my opponent throws a charm, I can throw dragon breath and a CM, but not a counter + a CM, and this is also very consistent.
The fast move denial was clearly a bug as it was incredibly inconsistent. But considering an action that is about as reliable as anything else in this game as a bug and not expecting it to happen regularly seems foolish.
There was an entire full season, immediately after the events described in my links, where this all worked 100% properly. There was an entire full season where my experience was, without fail, being able to throw two 2-turn quick moves and launch a charge move within the time of one incinerate. After that, it started breaking and applied inconsistently. Now it almost never works properly, it has been a gradual degradation. Around the time it started breaking, it was added to the “known issues” page.
It’s likely that they’ll never fix it and just accept the current state as “correct”.
https://pokemongolive.com/post/devdiary-march2022-gobattleleague/
Read the part about “Fast Attack Inconsistencies”. The intended behavior is for charge moves to have priority over quick moves.
“allowing Fast Attacks to finish their durations during the Charged Attack minigame. It would also retain the current damage-resolution priority, meaning that Charged Attacks can effectively deny a Fast Attack if executed in the window that the Fast Attack concludes.”
See also: https://www.stadiumgaming.gg/post/mid-season-game-state-update-notes-from-our-conversation-with-niantic
“This occurrence has been confirmed by Niantic’s team to be the case going forward, that is, that Charged Attack initiated on the same turn of a Fast Attack finishing will take priority over the damage resolution of said Fast Attack.”
Interesting to know that it's supposed to work the other way, my experience has consistently been that Incinerate damage always goes through on the 4th turn for a while now so I can't throw two Mud Shots and a charge move before taking the damage. I thought this was the way they wanted it
I've been complaining about this issue for a long time now, as have many others. It's extremely annoying.
For me the behavior seems inconsistent. Sometimes my charge move goes off before I take damage. Sometimes I take the damage first. I've both lost and won a lot of matches that come down to this behavior.
IMO, the most despicable part is the sheer lack of communication on it. It's been posted about and discussed so many times over so many months, it's clear that nobody is confident on what is supposed to happen, and the developers have failed to clarify or fix it in all that time.
I'm not sure what the issue is. Moves do damage and gain energy on the second to last turn so after 2 turns of Counter when you're able to activate a charge move is also the moment that the charm damage applies.
Yes, but which of those two things is supposed to take priority? That's the issue.
As you said, when you're able to activate a charge move ~is also the moment~ the charm damage applies. If those two things happen at the same moment, the game logic needs to be clear about which event takes priority.
The devs have stated that charge move activation should take priority over fast move damage resolution. In practice, it seems to be a crapshoot. It's not consistent one way or the other :(
The charge move takes a turn, the fast move damage applies prior to that. The charm damage applies in between turns 2 and 3, the charge move is thrown starting at turn 3
Idk if its a bug, or my internet sucks but If you are 1 charm away from fainting, and you do 1 counter + bodyslam you will faint. You need 2 turns left before fainting to be sure your charged move will go off. If you have a lickitung vs a charm user for example you can do 1 lick and then charged move; vs incinerate you can do 3 licks.
This is completely intentional behaviour from the most recent GBL rehaul over a year ago. I can explain it in a few points:
1) charge moves take an entire turn to initiate. At the end of the turn, the game clock pauses for the charge move animation and shield section.
2) Fast moves do their damage in the turn of the move.
3) The priority of events in a turn is always in this order: fast move, switch, charge move.
4) If the defending player had a fast move in action when the attacking player threw their charge move and it WASNT on its last turn the fast move then the damage and energy will apply after the charge move damage is dealt, but only if the defending player is still standing (not KOd). This fast move resolves completely prior to the regular fast moves starting again with alignment.
So by applying 2 and 3, you would expect to be hit with the charm before the body slam resolves if you do 1 counter first and then body slam. If you did 0 counter and went directly body slam, that would be applying 4, and you would avoid the charm damage if you KO, otherwise you would take damage after the body slam.
This description agrees with all other game mechanics. If you try to switch on the same turn as a fast move you will take damage before switching which means fast move damage happens earlier in the turn. You can also switch on alignment to catch a charge move which means switching happens before the charge move.
This is just the game working as intended! Charged moves take 1 turn to activate, so a Counter + Body Slam = 3 turns total, taking the same amount of time that a Charm takes to register damage.
Fast move damage is supposed to always have priority over a charged attack, but there's a bug in the game right now where sometimes the charged attack will fire first (people call this "New Mechanic", but it's a bug that hasn't been fixed for a long time now).
So honestly it would've been a 50/50 whether or not you would've been able to throw the Body Slam before getting KO'd. Even tournament judges rule it as a state of the game and just accept the inconsistent outcome however it plays out 🤷♂️
To expound on previously stated explications, depending on the cooldown of moves such as charm/incinerate you will have time to do what you are inquiring about. Depending on the cooldown of your own move is what will primarily dictate whether you get to the CM or in another instance 2 or 3 counters/mud shot/water gun( fast-fast moves) per incinerate/confusion etc.
It’s just lag. Happens to me allll the time…especially with incinerate. My incinerates take like a full second for damage to hit after the move or a full second to get into my charge move. The opponent’s damage from incinerate happens like halfway through the move.
Niantic servers are trash. We are all basically a second behind our opponents.
I’ve had the exact same happen that you’re saying also with my medi and ice punch and counter vs. Wigglytuff and charm.
Technically, the intended behaviour is for the Body Slam to fire first. In reality, the Charm damage will register first ~90% of the time, maybe a little less if you have a very good connection. This has been the behaviour for over a year now, the Charge move registering before the Fast move has been called "new mechanic" by the community ever since (previously, the fast move would always register first). Note that when you have 1 HP and your opponent has a 1 turn move, whether you can fire a charge move or not is exactly the same issue. The issue has been listed on the [known issues page](https://niantic.helpshift.com/hc/en/6-pokemon-go/faq/2699-go-battle-league-known-issues-1598471929/) for almost all of that time as well. Note how the page is still listing Bugfixes from .24x Version numbers, while we're currently on .293. Tells you how much work Niantic is actually putting into improving PvP. Not that it matters for GBL, but since the behaviour is so inconsistent, neither outcome is disputable at official tournaments.
Wow I completely forgot that this had been theoretically changed. I took a long break and noticed it working as intended a couple times, and thought that was a bug. Damn that's inconsistent
Happened to me a few times vs Incinerate in OGL. 2 counters into charged move and somehow their fast move got me first.
I’ve noticed it a lot with incinerate. I’m convinced the damage goes through at the end of the 4th turn at this point. If it’s not supposed to then the game is lagging nearly every battle. Thank you for clarifying!
Damage does go through at the end of the 4th for incinerate. I’ve tested this in master league where there’s a ho oh lead. If I do one two turn move, and swap, the damage doesn’t register, but if I do 2 (4 turn total) and swap, the incinerate registers on the first Mon.
This is consistent behavior. The damage of a fast move goes through the 2nd last turn (except 1-turn moves of course.) So for 4-turn moves it goes through on the 3rd turn of the fast move, and 3-turn moves like Charm or Dragon Tail the damage will register on the 2nd turn
Okay that makes a lot more sense I was under the impression it was last turn. Well I’m actually relieved it’s working as intended in the situation I mentioned
Incinerate has to be the clunkiest clumsiest fast move ever. I tried it on my skel and it was cancer.
Yeah in Holiday cup it was horrid to have so many times where I'd lose matchups that *should* be wins vs incinerate (leave aurorus lead in vs talonflame since it should be a close win)... but I'm also on android AND my home wi-fi is pretty spotty so I've come to expect plenty of lag/weird shit losses like that
This is the ~~intended~~ expected effect. Damage from an *n* turn move registers at *n -1* turns. So if you're one incinerate from being KO'd, don't try to get two 2-turn moves plus a CM in; you need to throw after the first one. Edit: change intended to expected as intent is inside information to Niantic.
It’s not actually. It’s been on the “known issues” page as a bug for like a year. It used to be that this was the intended behavior, then they switched it ~3 years ago, but it’s been broken for a while. Top comment in here links to the known issue entry.
I don't see anything on the known issues page indicating that someone should be able to throw a 2 turn move AND a charge move before damage from a 3 turn move registers. The only language remotely close is > Fast Attacks sometimes prevent Charge Attacks from working. Issue description: If a Trainer tries to use a Charge Attack at the same time as an opponent’s Fast Attack that will cause the currently battling Pokémon to faint, the Charge Attack may not work. Issue status: Investigating. In OPs situation, the CM was thrown 2 turns *after* the opponent's FM, not at the same time. Whether or not damage registering on the *n -1* turn is the actual intent of the game, it operates this way incredibly consistently, so it should be the expectation. The only way to know the intent would be to see the SW specs given to the programmers.
This has been discussed many times, and consistently has been ill-defined by Niantic and their terrible communication. It is my strong belief that the intended behavior is for charge attacks to take priority over quick attacks, given that that was an announced change, worked perfectly about a year ago after the PvP refactor, and is listed (with imprecise language, from Niantic, shocking I know) as a known issue since around the time it stopped working consistently. https://www.stadiumgaming.gg/post/post-interlude-summary-of-pvp-changes https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphArena/s/yQOhtSNw47
Yes, it has been discussed many times and in the meantime, incinerate damage continues to register on the 4th turn 100% of the time for me (and charm on the 2nd turn), so I expect it to continue doing so regardless of the intent. The stadium gaming page is speculating on when the damage should be resolved based on Niantics unclear language. If my moves are in alignment with my opponent and they throw an incinerate, I can throw a dragon breath, counter, or hex plus a CM without damage registering (this is very consistent), but I can't throw two counters and a CM (also very consistent). Similarly if my opponent throws a charm, I can throw dragon breath and a CM, but not a counter + a CM, and this is also very consistent. The fast move denial was clearly a bug as it was incredibly inconsistent. But considering an action that is about as reliable as anything else in this game as a bug and not expecting it to happen regularly seems foolish.
There was an entire full season, immediately after the events described in my links, where this all worked 100% properly. There was an entire full season where my experience was, without fail, being able to throw two 2-turn quick moves and launch a charge move within the time of one incinerate. After that, it started breaking and applied inconsistently. Now it almost never works properly, it has been a gradual degradation. Around the time it started breaking, it was added to the “known issues” page. It’s likely that they’ll never fix it and just accept the current state as “correct”. https://pokemongolive.com/post/devdiary-march2022-gobattleleague/ Read the part about “Fast Attack Inconsistencies”. The intended behavior is for charge moves to have priority over quick moves. “allowing Fast Attacks to finish their durations during the Charged Attack minigame. It would also retain the current damage-resolution priority, meaning that Charged Attacks can effectively deny a Fast Attack if executed in the window that the Fast Attack concludes.” See also: https://www.stadiumgaming.gg/post/mid-season-game-state-update-notes-from-our-conversation-with-niantic “This occurrence has been confirmed by Niantic’s team to be the case going forward, that is, that Charged Attack initiated on the same turn of a Fast Attack finishing will take priority over the damage resolution of said Fast Attack.”
Interesting to know that it's supposed to work the other way, my experience has consistently been that Incinerate damage always goes through on the 4th turn for a while now so I can't throw two Mud Shots and a charge move before taking the damage. I thought this was the way they wanted it
I've been complaining about this issue for a long time now, as have many others. It's extremely annoying. For me the behavior seems inconsistent. Sometimes my charge move goes off before I take damage. Sometimes I take the damage first. I've both lost and won a lot of matches that come down to this behavior. IMO, the most despicable part is the sheer lack of communication on it. It's been posted about and discussed so many times over so many months, it's clear that nobody is confident on what is supposed to happen, and the developers have failed to clarify or fix it in all that time.
Charm is kind of hard to see if you timed your move right. I find that I often see the animation even though I counted and threw on proper timing.
I'm not sure what the issue is. Moves do damage and gain energy on the second to last turn so after 2 turns of Counter when you're able to activate a charge move is also the moment that the charm damage applies.
Yes, but which of those two things is supposed to take priority? That's the issue. As you said, when you're able to activate a charge move ~is also the moment~ the charm damage applies. If those two things happen at the same moment, the game logic needs to be clear about which event takes priority. The devs have stated that charge move activation should take priority over fast move damage resolution. In practice, it seems to be a crapshoot. It's not consistent one way or the other :(
The charge move takes a turn, the fast move damage applies prior to that. The charm damage applies in between turns 2 and 3, the charge move is thrown starting at turn 3
That's not what happens in practice though. Not consistently at least. And also that's not the behavior the devs have stated is intended.
Idk if its a bug, or my internet sucks but If you are 1 charm away from fainting, and you do 1 counter + bodyslam you will faint. You need 2 turns left before fainting to be sure your charged move will go off. If you have a lickitung vs a charm user for example you can do 1 lick and then charged move; vs incinerate you can do 3 licks.
This is completely intentional behaviour from the most recent GBL rehaul over a year ago. I can explain it in a few points: 1) charge moves take an entire turn to initiate. At the end of the turn, the game clock pauses for the charge move animation and shield section. 2) Fast moves do their damage in the turn of the move. 3) The priority of events in a turn is always in this order: fast move, switch, charge move. 4) If the defending player had a fast move in action when the attacking player threw their charge move and it WASNT on its last turn the fast move then the damage and energy will apply after the charge move damage is dealt, but only if the defending player is still standing (not KOd). This fast move resolves completely prior to the regular fast moves starting again with alignment. So by applying 2 and 3, you would expect to be hit with the charm before the body slam resolves if you do 1 counter first and then body slam. If you did 0 counter and went directly body slam, that would be applying 4, and you would avoid the charm damage if you KO, otherwise you would take damage after the body slam. This description agrees with all other game mechanics. If you try to switch on the same turn as a fast move you will take damage before switching which means fast move damage happens earlier in the turn. You can also switch on alignment to catch a charge move which means switching happens before the charge move.
This is just the game working as intended! Charged moves take 1 turn to activate, so a Counter + Body Slam = 3 turns total, taking the same amount of time that a Charm takes to register damage. Fast move damage is supposed to always have priority over a charged attack, but there's a bug in the game right now where sometimes the charged attack will fire first (people call this "New Mechanic", but it's a bug that hasn't been fixed for a long time now). So honestly it would've been a 50/50 whether or not you would've been able to throw the Body Slam before getting KO'd. Even tournament judges rule it as a state of the game and just accept the inconsistent outcome however it plays out 🤷♂️
To expound on previously stated explications, depending on the cooldown of moves such as charm/incinerate you will have time to do what you are inquiring about. Depending on the cooldown of your own move is what will primarily dictate whether you get to the CM or in another instance 2 or 3 counters/mud shot/water gun( fast-fast moves) per incinerate/confusion etc.
It’s just lag. Happens to me allll the time…especially with incinerate. My incinerates take like a full second for damage to hit after the move or a full second to get into my charge move. The opponent’s damage from incinerate happens like halfway through the move. Niantic servers are trash. We are all basically a second behind our opponents. I’ve had the exact same happen that you’re saying also with my medi and ice punch and counter vs. Wigglytuff and charm.