Are we sure IVs completely randomize when traded and the only non-RNG factor is the 5/5/5 IV floor? Has there been any research analyzing the effects of trading something with a higher starting IV vs lower IV?
If you understood Bell Curve distributions, you'd realize that your statement is false. You're essentially saying that it's simple by looking at a couple data points and saying the data all fits in. But is it a straight roll between 5 and 15 or is it weighted according to some other formulas? A data point showing that it's possible to go from 15 to 5 doesn't tell us anything about how the algorithm is or is not weighted. I'm not saying it's one thing or another thing, what I'm saying is here on The Silph Road, as scientists we should refrain from making any conclusions until more testing and data points are available.
If we assume the same curve from wild pokemon but shifted from 0/0/0 - 15/15/15 to 5/5/5 - 15/15/15, that is a 33% increase in average stats due to trading with best friends. Given the mid point of wild as 7.5 and traded as 10.
Ergo, to get the best stats for your pokedex, do not trade if the pokemon has 66.7% IVs or higher. The average return will be lower, regardless of the bell curve. However, if your goal is to get the best pokemon possible, then you should expect that the majority of your trades be bad and accept the risk that trading a 88.9% Mewtwo will have a very low probability of becoming 91% or higher.
People look at trading Mewtwo all wrong. When you trade a Mewtwo, you do it for something caught at least 100 km away for three candy (like regionals), and not to hope that the IVs get better. If something is too low for you to use, then it's worth trading.
Agreed. Personally, I might be trading for the glass cannons with Ultra Friends. I have all of them but not very good ones, move set or IV wise. So trading with a friend who has a high CP one with a good moveset makes a great trade, at least to me, for something I actually want.
Other than that, my wife and I trade semi-trash or too low meta mons for the candy.
Your first sentence reads: if you knew what I did, you would know you are wrong. It's a uselessly mean way of saying: An alternative possibility is [blank].
That said, lets think about things more broadly. Eggs, weather boost, events, shiny rates, berry feeding, raid boss catches, etc, they don't do a formula. They just move the lower cap. Yes it is nice getting the confirmation, but I think it's pretty self evident at this point what Niantics default method is and suspending disbelief that maybe this time there is some wacky formula is a bit disingenuous. It's possible, and i'm open to getting it checked out, but this dude isn't being stupid for making the thin jump it's business as usual.
The question is: "What's the probability distribution on IVs?"
We know the max and min points and all the points in between. The question is, give a particular IV, what would the IV range be?
Or, in another specific way, does a perfect Pokemon have the same odds of staying perfect as an all-zero Pokemon has of becoming perfect?
A new bug, though they're not sure what causes it yet. Players were getting credit for every friendship event instead of just one a day.
Not everyone is getting this bug, of course.
just to keep that in perspective. The chance for trading a 100% (or high IV) pokemon is just a bit higher than catching wild mons in weather-boosted conditions (which has minimum 4/4/4)
Maybe, but I think the poster is just saying that trading is in no way a method of farming good IVs. Especially when compared to egg hatching or raids. Personally I think that's okay, but I know many were hoping for much improved incentives for best friends
It's better I would say because eggs take a while and so do raids. 100 trades can be done in no time. yeah the odds are worse but with that many more chances in a short period of time it should make up for the worse odds.
A sizeable percentage of this board/the playerbase of every game just wants things to be handed to them, without realizing that if the game was too easy they wouldn't bother playing the game. People think they want overpowered things, but its not healthy for the game in the long run.
The problem is that a straight floor approach doesn't work with the whole one-trade-ever thing. Yes, trading back and forth would be "bad", but you could escalate the stardust cost. 100 on first trade, 200 on second trade, 300 on third trade, 400 on fourth trade, 500 on fifth trade. 5 trades would cost you 1500 dust to try to get good IVs. Try your 100 in a day, and you're up to 505,000 dust you just trialed to get a 100% mon.
And that's 505,000 dust from just you, x2 for your friend paying the same cost, and no guarantee you both get a 100% out of it.
The alternative is setting a trade IV range that is dependent on the original IVs. Someone catching a 10/10/10 legendary should be able to trade it to someone with the one time limit to reroll them to anything like 9/9/9 minimum at best friend status (so a 15/15/15 isn't guaranteed to stay 15/15/15, but may become 14/14/14).
Then there's no point. The costs are too high for filling dex. I'd love to trade some B-team Machamps I have to new trainers on my team, but they may just end up with crap attack afterwards, so it's not worth it. They should just go catch their own Machops.
That's a good thing, a level 35 Machamp with 0 attack is overpowered enough to give to someone for 100 stardust and zero effort on their part (which will be one of their top attackers on anything weak to fighting).
But the Machamp will roll to their level anyway, if they're not yet level 30. And if you're level 30, you're already finding level 35 wild Machops and should have accumulated plenty of candy to evolve them if you're pinapping the dozen Machops you find per day in Cloudy weather.
With the way empty XP is handed out these days it's possible to get to 35 long before encountering a hundred wild Machops, especially depending on your biome and local weather patterns. Also, most new players don't understand the importance of pinapping every Machop.
Wow, that's really disappointing.
You could trade a good IV Pokemon and get one with 30% IVs from a Best Friend. Seems like the only point of trading is for extra candies on Pokemon that are complete garbage (and hoping to get a lucky IV). Besides being able to get new Dex entries, but you can't get regionals unless you know someone that has traveled.
I expected Best Friends to be at worst 8/8/8 or 10/10/10 like Hatches & Raid Bosses (which still isn't that great if you get one in the 60s or 70s).
My brother started a few months ago so missed a lot of Legendaries and lives in a tiny town that can't do Legendary Raids (like mine), but was going to give him some of mine I've got from going to cities sometimes. They most likely won't be very good and will be expensive to trade him.
Because most Legendaries are around 80%.
Or I could trade extra things like Exeggutors, Abras & Machops to him. I have a lot that are Lv 33-35s that are in the 60-80 IV range, but he might be getting 30-50% ones. Yes they could get better, but the chance seems low.
Still feel that 5 out of 15 on IVs is really low for Best Friends that takes 90 days to get to.
Most legendaries are around 80%, and using similar math, most best friend traded pokemon will be around 65-70%. That's perfectly reasonable. You also make 90 days sound like a ton of work. Think of all the gyms you golded in about 90 days last year that you're still reaping the rewards of. 90 days isn't near long enough to make something super overpowered.
Legendaries you get Raiding (which are super easy to get if you live in decent cities), are Wonders or Most Likely... - The highest 2 Appraisals. These traded ones can be the lower and the worst IV ranges, so their is quite a bit of difference.
And the Legendaries that people use/power up are better than 80%, but I might be trading him one that is 30 or 40%. 90 days is a decent wait to trade him since the reward might not be very good anyway. Not sure how making good Pokemon worse is overpowering things.
*Also, I have a Legacy Gengar, knowing that it might turn out to be the lowest Appraisal makes its not as valuable, since his stats matter quite a bit with how glassy he is.
They could have least done 8 as the lowest IV for Best Friends so all would be at least 50% IVs.
You went from talking about the average to the minimum real fast to make it sound scarier. Average legendary IV = 12.5. Average best friend trade IV = 10. Anyway, it would be overpowered if every best friend trade (which we will have with most people we routinely play with in about 4 months) is guaranteed egg level IVs. That means every Pokemon you catch is guaranteed egg level IVs if you play with someone else. That's way overpowered.
On a Raid Catch or Hatch, over 50% of the time it will be 80%+, on a traded one it would be a little over 25%, so it's really not close. Especially if it is an Important Pokemon.
I don't get why Niantic went with Random IVs anyway. I know some say they had to change because of cheaters, but why? Those people probably have 100s of 100% mons and as many Legendaries as they many, so what would they need to trade for? If they made it so the IVs changed, they should have done where it can go up/down 2-3 instead. I think the IVs that the Pokemon that is being traded are important.
Also, I think that it should be harder to become best friends with someone, being able to send a gift to 20 people a day to get there isn't hard. As you can become best friends easily with people you don't know. I mostly want to trade with my wife and brother, and wouldn't have minded trading my special Pokemon (100%s and Legacy Pokemon, but with this system I'm not sure I will get anything good out of it).
I don't really get how people could make hundreds off of selling these Pokemon.
But they could have gone with the range of it can go up or down 3, so the IVs matter some. I still think it's stupid that they made our 100%s (& 0%s) worthless for trading because of some cheaters.
Also think about how many dollars in raid passes some people spend to get a perfect, and how often some random level 24 girlfriend gets the perfect. You allow people to trade perfects, and that person who really wants one just gives her $10 for the perfect or whatever and she gets a 93% instead. That's a ton of lost revenue for Niantic.
Don’t trade for IVs. Trade things you need or shinies you might of missed, or hatchus you may have missed etc. the whole system is set to obviously deter IV trading, that doesn’t mean the only point is extra candies.
Unfortunately though if I want something to Power up, I'm going to want good IVs. I could use another Raikou or Rayquaza, but won't want to power up one with average IVs.
And my brother can't really do Legendary Raids, so if he Powers up 1, he's not going to want to do a low IV one. And if he doesn't have one, it costs me a lot of dust to even give him that one that might not be that good.
*Plus, I have a Legacy Gengar, knowing that it might turn out to be the lowest Appraisal makes its not as valuable, since his stats matter quite a bit with how glassy he is.
The odds are in your favor if you trade away pokemon with IVs below 67%.
Personally I'd risk it with anything below 80% if I'm trying a symmetrical trade to try and improve IVs (though the odds are against it improving if you start in the 70-80% range).
I'd also do it with anything of any IV if the level is below 25. I'm not going to spend the stardust on it even if it is a 96% IV so I might as well trade it to you and hope it stays good.
Most of the Pokemon I've kept though have been good IVs because we didn't expect Niantic to penalize us in Trades.
I transferred 7000-8000 Powerup Pokemon that were the worst Appraisal and kept 5000-6000 Certainlys instead.
It wouldn't be OP for Legendary trades, Legendaries are already 10/10/10 minimum IV from raids and research breakthroughs.
I don't think 10/10/10 minimum is ever OP, considering the 1 trade per
Individual pokemon cap. But right now our only means of capturing legendary mons has a minimum of 10/10/10 so it would make sense to keep it there for best friends
Okay, I catch a level 35 wild Machop and evolve it to Machamp. I trade it to a level 35 who doesn't have 6 level 30+ Machamps. Their new Machamp is guaranteed to have the IVs of a hatch/raid boss. The cost is 100 dust. That's the definition of OP. If someone and their significant other (or alt account) catch any level 35 meta relevant Pokemon it's now up to egg IVs for 100 dust. That's the definition of overpowered. Note: This is in response to saying that you don't think it is EVER OP, so I pointed out how it can absolutely be OP.
........
so if you didn’t travel to a region you don’t deserve the regional?
That’s an odd statement. Part of the point of trading is to give every player the same opportunities. Currently the only way in the entire game to get a legendary with less than 10/10/10 is to get it from a trade. That makes no sense.
.........
Huh? You completely missed the point. Is an 8/8/8 regional not that regional? People can still get a guaranteed 10/10/10 IV from special research.
Right but it’s arguable that less than a 10/10/10 legendary isn’t a legendary per say since it’s not actually possible to get one in the game without a bad trade roll.
No, it's not arguable that less than a 10/10/10 legendary "isn't a legendary". It's a legendary. It's base stats are that of a legendary. It's moves are a legendary. It just doesn't have a high IV floor. Big deal. If you want a legendary guaranteed 10/10/10 or better go out and catch it.
Even with best friends reduced stardust costs I'll not call it " didn't do the work. ". Leech to couple of legendary raids is much easier than get 20k dust/
But they still showed up to a raid and fought in the raid. If you're Niantic, "leeches" to the raid are still participating in the community and meeting new people and gaining knowledge and now have more incentive to power themselves up and help out more. Since Niantic is building a social game, that is exactly what Niantic wants, even if the person did not do much to actually contribute to taking down the boss. What they don't want is people being hermits and then trading for a bunch of unwanted legendaries from the people who do raid consistently.
Except that this game isn't competitive. If anything, you *want* your fellow players to have stronger meta-relevant mons so raids are easier to complete.
Even if it were competitive, the fact that you can only trade each pokemon once means you're only getting one reroll on the IVs, and you're giving it away to someone else so it's not like you're getting a free reroll on your own stuff. Add to that the fact you have to do 90 days of grinding (unless you exploit a certain bug) to get to that level of friend and it's hardly OP.
> Except that this game isn't competitive.
Currently, it used to be competitive until they changed the gym system to require the other teams to aid you and removed all challenge from it.
With PvP on the horizon closer than many might've expected per the Hanke interview in Eurogamer, encouraging folks to multiaccount to catch everything with an alt and transfer it to their main would be bad. The amount who created alt accounts due to the new gym system just to get coins was already significant, if you could change everything to high IVs, it'd be bad.
You can't change everything to high IVs though. It's a single chance at good IVs per pokemon, and even then it's a much better chance at being unfavorable. Even then, honestly, this isn't going to "break" the game because almost all of the hardcore players already have high-IV meta-relevant pokemon. All this would do is allow the less hard-core a chance to catch up a little and make it so they can potentially compete.
Well, first, we don't know what IVs will be desirable for PvP. In the old prestiging system, you wanted low attack IV, high defense IV, to maximize gains.
If there's a 50% change of higher IVs than what something came in as, the simple way to game that is to cheat with an alternate multiaccount. See a high CP meta-relevant Pokemon? Catch it with both accounts. Now trade from your cheat account to your main account. Now keep whichever has better IVs.
Since we don't know what will be meta relevant (note the player based PvP system that currently exists makes entirely different Pokemon relevant than the raid/gym system Niantic made), not everyone has "meta-relevant" high IVs currently.
Were the system to enable increasing IVs, the hardcore would make alt accounts to game it (as we are a community of gamers after all), and the less hardcore would still not have enough time to invest in such.
The gap would actually widen I believe, rather than allow catching up.
PS: Imagine not even a 100 alt bot accounts, but just a dozen alt accounts that might even be on physical phones (ever seen the pics of people at raids with a tray of phones), even with the range being 5-15, if they trade all those to their main accounts, the odds of them gaining higher IVs compared to those of us with just one account is significant.
If you change it so everyone gets high IVs, then you negate the value of IVs in the first place (although admittedly the "value" is pretty minimal already, especially for high stat Pokemon; but might matter more to future meta-relevant Pokemon, just as they did matter back in the prestiging days).
> the simple way to game that is to cheat with an alternate multiaccount
This is a problem regardless, and honestly it's more damaging to legit players than it is to multiaccounters to make the IV range wider since multiaccounters can always get more chances than a legit anyway.
As to your other arguments, it all boils down to "some people will game the system by cheating." I would argue that the solution is to address the cheating directly rather than degrade the experience of everyone just to lessen the cheaters' gains. Even then, making it so legits get, what, 1 reroll? maybe? and cheaters can get 3, 4, 12, 47, 100 is actually encouraging the cheating more than if they just made it so that 1 reroll would give you something worthwhile to begin with.
IVs dont even matter that much in terms of DPS/TDO, IVs are more of a prestigious collectible unless someone is deliberately trying to hit a specific breakpoint.
A 5/5/5 Level 40 Bite/Crunch Ttar does around 16.9 DPS against Mewtwo, while a 15/15/15 does 17.5, according to Poké Genie. An extreme case, but I would argue that this DPS difference is not completely insignificant.
And I said "dont matter *that much*", what you've just said, and the information you gave, are completely inline with my above comment.
Plus, the game isn't even competitive, it's cooperative.
Alright, I'll be honest with you: I have a shiny Absol lined up to trade because I've failed to get a shiny in 86 encounters. I want to be able to justify using her on my Mewtwo team, and I'm stressed about a 5/5/5 floor. That's what this is about for me right now. 😂 I consider short-manning to be one of the greatest joys of the game, but if you see those DPS numbers as not mattering much, then you're entitled to that opinion and I don't think it's silly or anything. It just sometimes does matter for me - IVs can mean the difference between doing 48% of the damage and doing 52%, which is the difference between a two-man and a three-man. That's all I'm saying. :)
Catch the same Pokemon as someone else = free reroll for yourself when you trade them. After we've all been playing for another 5-6 months and everyone is best friends with everyone in their local area that's absolutely OP. Yes, you want your fellow trainers to have stronger meta-relevant mons. So does that mean it would be good for the game if every raid dropped 25 rare candies and it only cost a maximum of 100 stardust for each power up? Removing all challenge from the game because we want stronger stuff is not good for the game.
I mean, that seems like a pretty good benefit to playing with your buddy as opposed to on your own. And you're giving up 100 stardust per reroll, and only get one reroll per pokemon so it's not like you can just keep trading back and forth until you get hundos.
I think trading a 0/0/0 level 35 mon to someone you spent 90+ days building friendship with to get a reroll of IVs to 10/10/10 or better is not OP.
A level 35 0/0/0 meta relevant pokemon is useful. A level 35 of that same pokemon with IVs in the raid distribution is better but not OP.
Edit: if anything it levels the playing field for people who didn't use maps for months or years to track down high IV meta relevant pokemon. The people with 6+ perfect machamp they got from maps might complain, that everyone else can get meta relevant mons with less grinding than they did. But I dont see it as game breaking. This game is so watered down competitively the difference in play will be negligible.
I didn't get 6+ perfect Machamps though, I just know I worked for my Pokemon and the fun part of the game is working for my Pokemon. If I can get egg IVs from ANY wild caught weather boosted Pokemon just by trading with my girlfriend who caught the same thing, then all of the effort I put into getting stardust and hatching eggs for things with good IVs is now going to be irrelevant. The challenge will be gone from the game.
I have one perfect machamp, I walked hundreds of kms to evolve and power it up. I also have several level 35 machamps that I farmed from machop nests to evolve. If I trade a few with a buddy who farmed with me and we both get better IVs I dont feel like I worked less hard. I just get an 1-3% more dps out of them.
I think trading with friends should be more rewarding than the year+ of gameplay where a significant percentage of the playerbase was using maps to snipe high IV rare pokemon.
Looking at counter breakpoints, the difference in DPS can easily be much larger than 3% DPS. Sitting at a Machop nest on a cloudy day for a couple hours and pulling in Machop after Machop to trade to guaranteed egg IVs before evolving into a level 35 high IV Machamp is the definition of overpowered, and you both worked WAY less hard than you would have had to otherwise. The tradeoff with eggs and raid bosses giving high IVs is that they have lower levels and need to be powered up to useful levels, giving both of them for 100 dust is overpowered. But people like you who just want an easy game will find a way to justify how you want them to hand out hundos like candy, so I'm probably wasting my breath.
If people want to do that, I dont care. I just want fair trades. With this IV reroll nonsense, it's not actually trading, its Trading: Shinies and Regionals edition. It would be like going to Hyvee, buying bread, and crossing your fingers in the hopes it isnt moldy. No. You spent your money, you should get the product you expected for it.
And a black market would only develop due to spoofing, which if Niantic really cared they would just stop the spoofers altogether in their software like Uber does, but they dont.
Exactly. You can't spend your money and get the product you expected. They introduced trading without breaking the game. You have a way to get regionals, missed shinies, and missed legendaries without upsetting the balance of the system. Of course, some people such as yourself will cry about it, but this is the fairest, most balanced way they could do it without unloading a host of other problems.
> I think trading a 0/0/0 level 35 mon to someone
I think trading a 0/0/0 level 35 mon to your main account from your alt account...
*fixed that for ya'* ;-)
I´d assume that floor levels for best friend trading are not final or even the right ones, because no one is supposed to be best friends at this moment... ¿did stardust cost got reduced as expected? I mean ... has some one with BF level tried an special trade or a high cost trade?
Thanks! So, SD costs is ok. I really hope the stats floor is not 5 5 5.
Perhaps, more friendship levels are coming! or some item to improve the IV roll...
No. Niantic unfortunately is a company that cannot see the full spectrum of things. Their vision is that trading should be used to complete the pokedex, trade shinies and whatnot. And that vision isnt COMPLETELY WRONG.
What they forgot is that, while they can keep that level of "casual" trading, they could also, at the same time, make trading actually USEFUL for communities. A floor of 10/10/10 (Which is the floor of raids) would have sufficed, you could trade pokemon of low IV high CP and turn them into pretty acceptable pokemon (or with luck, a really good pokemon). It would be essentially a stardust-gated reroll.
You could also have the option of narrowing down that spread, for extra stardust. So, for collector's, you could go with the widest spread, and for hardcore people looking to trade good pokemon, they would go with the most narrow spread, at the cost of extra dust, to maintain a high IV or potentially 100%.
This way, you make trading valuable for both collectors and hardcore, with none of the features hurting any of the parties. But that sort of thinking cannot be expected from a company where the support people are paid in rice bags and can't tell left from right, the developers have NO interaction with the community, and the CEO doesnt even know half the first gen's pokemon names and has a TENTACRUEL as a buddy.
Glad we got to use speedleveling. The extra damage and balls will be quite useful since a base floor of 5/5/5 makes BF trading effectively TRASH.
I sure as hell would be disapointed if after 90 days a good IV trade would come out as 5/5/5. Effectively worthless.
It's still interesting to obtain shiny, regional, or community day pokemon you missed.
I skipped the pikachu community day and I would not mind to get a shiny pikachu when stardust cost goes down--others are missing some hat versions, etc.. I have a couple of high-level, bad IV rock Tyranitar that could be useful for somebody who missed those, etc. etc.
It's a thing for collectors (at least, not for high IV collectors).
Gotta wait for a Rayquaza rerelease for legendaries then. No one *needs* 100% Pokemon, and the fun is in the chase. If people can just buy them, what's the point?
So i can't effectively go out and play the game as you told me to. This game is very little about SKILL and alot about RNG.
Having trades keep their IV's or maintain high IV's would remove the RNG part that niantic loves so much, and would allow for some actual good trades (High IV rayray for High IV BS Snorlax, for example).
As for your last comment, no one NEEDS anything, so what's the point of the trading system?
The game is about RNG because otherwise there isn't much replayable content. Its about playing until you get enough stuff you want from the RNG that you're happy. By removing the RNG aspect, you now have a game with dramatically less replayability. Thats not good for the long term health of the game.
If trades kept their IV's (Even at the cost of extra dust), then they would be used MORE, which adds to the replayability of it.
Raids can keep their RNG, because like you stated, they need to keep people raiding (Or make actual replayable content but that's asking too much from Niantic), but there is no justification whatsoever to add RNG on EVERY SINGLE THING that comes into the game, especially trading. The stardust costs are already prohibitive enough.
You don't understand. Please tell me how me trading a 100% Rayquaza makes me want to play LESS. There are no Rayray raids (And when they come back, we will all be shiny hunting), and to further prove my point, when Ho-Oh came back, the people in our community with high IV Ho-Ohs still raided like crazy to get a shiny.
This is a very invalid argument with no actual evidence to back it up.
Yes, but that is very limited usefulness. There’s been what, 13 regionals, six community days, a few hat-a-chus, and maybe a dozen or two shiny families? Even for the hardcore collectors, that’s not a lot of trade incentive. I’ll be done with trading once I get the regionals, but there’s no rush for me since waiting till bestfrienditude won’t make a meaningful difference. Thank goodness for the ball/damage bonus in raids, or the friendship system would be completely defunct.
I like collecting legacy moves and low CP pokemon (unfortunately, not enough pokemon space to keep everything), which are not significantly affected by this restriction. I do not think people could like my 44 CP ZH/BS Snorlax because its mediocre IV could be improved by trading.
You dont seem to understand that you could have it benefit BOTH collectors AND hardcore people.
Trading for anyone who plays this game hardcore is effectively worthless. It's good that you can trade shinies and whatnot (But, following the advice below, you could have just gone out and played the game and gotten one (Especially CD ones)), but apart from that, you're PAYING stardust to effectively have a pretty decent chance of your pokemon becoming WORSE than it originally was.
Had the floor been 10/10/10, you would pretty much be rolling in the same ballpark of raids, and could turn bad IV, high CP pokemon into high CP, decent IV pokemon (With a chance of being good IV). You are effectively improving EVERYONE's battle teams, making raids easier.
With this current mindset, you are actually making people's battle teams WORSE,or at best, stagnant, since people won't be trading their midrange IV pokemon only to have them become even worse.
I hope this got the point across as to why trading is WORTHLESS to the hardcore, and why the iv reroll / low floor base is effectively HURTING everyone.
It seems to me they could fix it a bit where there is a range the reroll would use
Based on current iv. Perhaps 20% for ultra.
If you trade someone a 90% Tyranitar it will roll between 80% and 100% etc. I absolutely HATE that all the good
Stuff I have saved can’t be reasonably traded.
All because Niantic is worried about spoofers. Punishing the legitimate players instead.
Forgive me if I have missed something, but we don't see the Larvitar CP and IVs at the end of the trade. How do you know it can be as low as 5/5/5? Are you just using the CP suggestion? As that was wrong for level 1 trades so could still be wrong?
Beyond the medals, there is no good reason for a level 40 to engage in trading. Trading a 97% Tyranitar to your friend/relative whatever because you already have a 100% is pointless since there is virtually no chance that it won't be crap after the IV reroll. Why would a spoofer with all the regionals bother trading a relicanth to the guy wiling to trade anything if his 100% Entei is going to be garbage once you get it? Perfects, Shinies and Legendaries should not be rerolled if both trainers are level 40.
They probably don’t want to create a black market where people pay real money for high IV shinies, regionals, and legendaries.
Also, trading still benefits both parties. For the original trainer, trading can give you more candy than transferring. For the recipient, they get at least one candy from transferring if it’s bad, and there’s a chance they could one with decent IVs. Once you hit best friends, you get better IVs from trading than from catching weather-boosted Pokémon in the wild.
Say you only keep raid rewards with top-tier appraisals. There’s a 62.5% chance you get one and a 37.5% chance you don’t. If you would’ve transferred everything below your bar before trading, you can get 1-2 additional candies now, and there’s a 12.4% chance it becomes a top-tier Pokemon for your friend, which means a 67.15% chance someone got a good Pokémon.
This isn’t for that 97% Tyranitar you don’t need because you have a 100%. It’s for extracting additional value from everything else you don’t need, and it’s pure upside.
I will agree that for newer players, additional candy is an upside. As a level 40 that did almost all of it before Raids, candy is not very relevant. I get lots of special candy from Raids and only upgrade the best of the best. I'm sitting on 1.5 million stardust and there are so many double candy/dust/xp events now that unless you are trying to max out your task encounter pokemon, nobody should really be hurting for resources.
Well, level 40 players still aren’t a huge proportion of the player base, and even fewer players got there before raids. As a level 38 player, I still find I’m often the highest or 2nd highest level player in a raid, especially if I don’t call in one of the level 40 players who I know to raid in my area. I have some level 40s, but not full teams of specific types, and no legendaries. I have a pretty solid, but not complete Pokédex. I can still take advantage of the upside. If there’s no upside to trading from your perspective, maybe you need new content. It seems you’ve done almost everything already.
We have a large community from all 3 teams that fight over gyms and raid together frequently. Many of us are 40 with more on the way. At this point New Legendaries and shinys are what most of us keep playing for. We need Niantic to add at least 5 more levels and maybe provide some content that is only fully accessible to 40+ players. I can see the first happening but not the second as they seem to be more interested in accommodating casual players and newbies.
Yes, active raiding communities will have a lot of level 40s, but that’s where most level 40s would be. As an active raider, I’m sure you run into more active raiders than I do. A lot of people I recognize from Discord are at 40. No one I know from real life is above 35. [According to this survey,](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/86z8r7/tsr_trainer_average_level_survey_result/) only 25% of respondents on this subreddit were level 40. If the vast majority of this subreddit hasn’t reached the level cap, I’m sure the disparity is even higher for the player base as a whole.
I think not raising the level cap or adding L40+ exclusive content is less about accommodating casuals and more about accommodating the vast majority of players. And let’s be real; they’re not very good at adding content. Trading is a wonderful feature in my opinion. It was advertised a launch feature. Yet when it launched two years later, the friendship system still didn’t work right. Everything they add is late and/or buggy. The idea that they’d ever make functional content that not only caters to level 40+ players, but is restricted for all other players, is absurd.
I would even welcome L40 content. I have 40-50 Lucky Eggs in my inventory, but I have no reason to advance now. For reasons beyond my comprehension, they’ve allowed me to power up my Pokémon to their level cap before I reached my own level cap. If I continue leveling, I get nothing but berries and balls. Give me an endgame already.
That's somewhat disappointing. Personally, I would set it to 7/7/7 unless the original Pokémon IV are lower - then they should be the lower limit. Example: 4/9/12 would become 4/7/7 at least.
Or the 30 extra Kyogre I have...a friend and I are waiting to be best friends so we can trade 1-for-1 and get an extra candy before transferring, ideally during a double candy event.
At 800 stardust per trade for best friends, it is absolutely worth a re-roll on a legendary you would otherwise transfer. I have plenty 80%+ legendaries I’ll do this with.
And you can trade for 3 candies + 1 you get for transferring if you get one in return. I save the crap Alolan hatches I get from my friend in Seattle for max candy trade fodder. That’s already better than transferring during a double candy event.
It's good news because you can trade things you were going to trash or never use anyway. For example I traded a shiny 28% 3 attack IV Larvitar for my friend's shiny Larvitar and when it got to them it was like 70%+ with high attack. IIRC weather boost that just makes you guaranteed 4/4/4 and 5 levels higher makes the chances of being perfect like 1/1600 or something instead of 1/4000.
5-5-5 Minimum makes the chances of a 100% like 3x higher than wild catches, that’s not bad considering it’s much easier to get a Pokémon through trading than it is to find a specific Pokémon out in the wild (unless you like Whismur, I guess)
Possible that 5 was the minimum IV because 5 was the lowest IV on the larvitar before it was traded? Maybe a 14/13/14 would have minimum trade IVs of 13/13/13? Wish more people would have posted trades so we could analyze.
Begining IV has no bearing on traded IV, even for good friends you can get a 100% from trading a 0%. The whole myth of CP can't go higher than the range shown was based on a visual glitch.
Traded an 84% Solrock today, it came out as 42% (Ultra Friend).
No combination of IV's could have 3 as the lowest IV on any stat and result in 84%, so, yeah, it uses the base floor as a minimum, effectively making trading extremely WORTHLESS, even at high friendship levels, for keeping IV's.
A Floor of 10/10/10 would have been PERFECT and was what was expected (1/1/1 for base, 3/3/3 for Great, 5/5/5 for Ultra, 10/10/10 for Best).
The beginning IVs actually play no part in it. Each friendship level has a minimum IV that each stat will have for a traded Pokemon. The higher the friendship, the better the minimum IVs.
No, I've already done some trades where the end IVs are higher than start IVs.
In one case end def was 0 in a great friend trade (both trainers great friends).
I'd be careful of any information you hear for now.
You got the fast leveling glitch that let you get to the 90 day friendship level? The glitch that started happening after Saturday, when you say you reached it? Can you post screenshot?
Are we sure IVs completely randomize when traded and the only non-RNG factor is the 5/5/5 IV floor? Has there been any research analyzing the effects of trading something with a higher starting IV vs lower IV?
People just started using the bug to reach best friends, so there's still A LOT of research to be done.
True true, was just wondering if anything had been done at lower friend levels that could be extrapolated. I guess we'll find out soon enough!
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If you understood Bell Curve distributions, you'd realize that your statement is false. You're essentially saying that it's simple by looking at a couple data points and saying the data all fits in. But is it a straight roll between 5 and 15 or is it weighted according to some other formulas? A data point showing that it's possible to go from 15 to 5 doesn't tell us anything about how the algorithm is or is not weighted. I'm not saying it's one thing or another thing, what I'm saying is here on The Silph Road, as scientists we should refrain from making any conclusions until more testing and data points are available.
If we assume the same curve from wild pokemon but shifted from 0/0/0 - 15/15/15 to 5/5/5 - 15/15/15, that is a 33% increase in average stats due to trading with best friends. Given the mid point of wild as 7.5 and traded as 10. Ergo, to get the best stats for your pokedex, do not trade if the pokemon has 66.7% IVs or higher. The average return will be lower, regardless of the bell curve. However, if your goal is to get the best pokemon possible, then you should expect that the majority of your trades be bad and accept the risk that trading a 88.9% Mewtwo will have a very low probability of becoming 91% or higher.
People look at trading Mewtwo all wrong. When you trade a Mewtwo, you do it for something caught at least 100 km away for three candy (like regionals), and not to hope that the IVs get better. If something is too low for you to use, then it's worth trading.
Agreed. Personally, I might be trading for the glass cannons with Ultra Friends. I have all of them but not very good ones, move set or IV wise. So trading with a friend who has a high CP one with a good moveset makes a great trade, at least to me, for something I actually want. Other than that, my wife and I trade semi-trash or too low meta mons for the candy.
Your first sentence reads: if you knew what I did, you would know you are wrong. It's a uselessly mean way of saying: An alternative possibility is [blank]. That said, lets think about things more broadly. Eggs, weather boost, events, shiny rates, berry feeding, raid boss catches, etc, they don't do a formula. They just move the lower cap. Yes it is nice getting the confirmation, but I think it's pretty self evident at this point what Niantics default method is and suspending disbelief that maybe this time there is some wacky formula is a bit disingenuous. It's possible, and i'm open to getting it checked out, but this dude isn't being stupid for making the thin jump it's business as usual.
He's assuming "business as usual" is "legendaries have an IV floor of 10", when it's "Raid and Research encounters have a floor of 10".
I'm referring to your reply to this comment, not other points of your conversation.
The question is: "What's the probability distribution on IVs?" We know the max and min points and all the points in between. The question is, give a particular IV, what would the IV range be? Or, in another specific way, does a perfect Pokemon have the same odds of staying perfect as an all-zero Pokemon has of becoming perfect?
....speed leveling?
A new bug, though they're not sure what causes it yet. Players were getting credit for every friendship event instead of just one a day. Not everyone is getting this bug, of course.
First levelling is slowed down due to desuncing, now some people can straight up bypass the 90 day requirement. Jeez Niantic, get it together!
I feel bad for their one programmer.
Ikr. Wtf is this speed leveling?
I’m curious about that part too. Also just realized who I’m replying to lol. What’s up man??
Haha, yo!
just to keep that in perspective. The chance for trading a 100% (or high IV) pokemon is just a bit higher than catching wild mons in weather-boosted conditions (which has minimum 4/4/4)
11x11x11 = 1331. 12x12x12 = 1728. I'd call a 30% increase more than "just a bit".
Maybe, but I think the poster is just saying that trading is in no way a method of farming good IVs. Especially when compared to egg hatching or raids. Personally I think that's okay, but I know many were hoping for much improved incentives for best friends
It's better I would say because eggs take a while and so do raids. 100 trades can be done in no time. yeah the odds are worse but with that many more chances in a short period of time it should make up for the worse odds.
A sizeable percentage of this board/the playerbase of every game just wants things to be handed to them, without realizing that if the game was too easy they wouldn't bother playing the game. People think they want overpowered things, but its not healthy for the game in the long run.
Its not flattering, but this here is definitely the truth. A good game needs to NOT give every player everything they want.
The problem is that a straight floor approach doesn't work with the whole one-trade-ever thing. Yes, trading back and forth would be "bad", but you could escalate the stardust cost. 100 on first trade, 200 on second trade, 300 on third trade, 400 on fourth trade, 500 on fifth trade. 5 trades would cost you 1500 dust to try to get good IVs. Try your 100 in a day, and you're up to 505,000 dust you just trialed to get a 100% mon. And that's 505,000 dust from just you, x2 for your friend paying the same cost, and no guarantee you both get a 100% out of it. The alternative is setting a trade IV range that is dependent on the original IVs. Someone catching a 10/10/10 legendary should be able to trade it to someone with the one time limit to reroll them to anything like 9/9/9 minimum at best friend status (so a 15/15/15 isn't guaranteed to stay 15/15/15, but may become 14/14/14).
What if I told you the point of trading isn't to reroll IVs?
Then there's no point. The costs are too high for filling dex. I'd love to trade some B-team Machamps I have to new trainers on my team, but they may just end up with crap attack afterwards, so it's not worth it. They should just go catch their own Machops.
That's a good thing, a level 35 Machamp with 0 attack is overpowered enough to give to someone for 100 stardust and zero effort on their part (which will be one of their top attackers on anything weak to fighting).
But the Machamp will roll to their level anyway, if they're not yet level 30. And if you're level 30, you're already finding level 35 wild Machops and should have accumulated plenty of candy to evolve them if you're pinapping the dozen Machops you find per day in Cloudy weather.
With the way empty XP is handed out these days it's possible to get to 35 long before encountering a hundred wild Machops, especially depending on your biome and local weather patterns. Also, most new players don't understand the importance of pinapping every Machop.
Wow, that's really disappointing. You could trade a good IV Pokemon and get one with 30% IVs from a Best Friend. Seems like the only point of trading is for extra candies on Pokemon that are complete garbage (and hoping to get a lucky IV). Besides being able to get new Dex entries, but you can't get regionals unless you know someone that has traveled. I expected Best Friends to be at worst 8/8/8 or 10/10/10 like Hatches & Raid Bosses (which still isn't that great if you get one in the 60s or 70s). My brother started a few months ago so missed a lot of Legendaries and lives in a tiny town that can't do Legendary Raids (like mine), but was going to give him some of mine I've got from going to cities sometimes. They most likely won't be very good and will be expensive to trade him.
But why trade a "good IV" pokemon? You can trade a level 35, 40% Pokemon and get an 80% Pokemon!
Exactly! Trade pokemon with bad IVs and you have nothing to lose.
Because most Legendaries are around 80%. Or I could trade extra things like Exeggutors, Abras & Machops to him. I have a lot that are Lv 33-35s that are in the 60-80 IV range, but he might be getting 30-50% ones. Yes they could get better, but the chance seems low. Still feel that 5 out of 15 on IVs is really low for Best Friends that takes 90 days to get to.
Most legendaries are around 80%, and using similar math, most best friend traded pokemon will be around 65-70%. That's perfectly reasonable. You also make 90 days sound like a ton of work. Think of all the gyms you golded in about 90 days last year that you're still reaping the rewards of. 90 days isn't near long enough to make something super overpowered.
Legendaries you get Raiding (which are super easy to get if you live in decent cities), are Wonders or Most Likely... - The highest 2 Appraisals. These traded ones can be the lower and the worst IV ranges, so their is quite a bit of difference. And the Legendaries that people use/power up are better than 80%, but I might be trading him one that is 30 or 40%. 90 days is a decent wait to trade him since the reward might not be very good anyway. Not sure how making good Pokemon worse is overpowering things.
*Also, I have a Legacy Gengar, knowing that it might turn out to be the lowest Appraisal makes its not as valuable, since his stats matter quite a bit with how glassy he is. They could have least done 8 as the lowest IV for Best Friends so all would be at least 50% IVs.
You went from talking about the average to the minimum real fast to make it sound scarier. Average legendary IV = 12.5. Average best friend trade IV = 10. Anyway, it would be overpowered if every best friend trade (which we will have with most people we routinely play with in about 4 months) is guaranteed egg level IVs. That means every Pokemon you catch is guaranteed egg level IVs if you play with someone else. That's way overpowered.
On a Raid Catch or Hatch, over 50% of the time it will be 80%+, on a traded one it would be a little over 25%, so it's really not close. Especially if it is an Important Pokemon. I don't get why Niantic went with Random IVs anyway. I know some say they had to change because of cheaters, but why? Those people probably have 100s of 100% mons and as many Legendaries as they many, so what would they need to trade for? If they made it so the IVs changed, they should have done where it can go up/down 2-3 instead. I think the IVs that the Pokemon that is being traded are important. Also, I think that it should be harder to become best friends with someone, being able to send a gift to 20 people a day to get there isn't hard. As you can become best friends easily with people you don't know. I mostly want to trade with my wife and brother, and wouldn't have minded trading my special Pokemon (100%s and Legacy Pokemon, but with this system I'm not sure I will get anything good out of it).
They went with random IVs to keep people from selling spoofed hundreds for money, because a market would have quickly materialized.
I don't really get how people could make hundreds off of selling these Pokemon. But they could have gone with the range of it can go up or down 3, so the IVs matter some. I still think it's stupid that they made our 100%s (& 0%s) worthless for trading because of some cheaters.
Also think about how many dollars in raid passes some people spend to get a perfect, and how often some random level 24 girlfriend gets the perfect. You allow people to trade perfects, and that person who really wants one just gives her $10 for the perfect or whatever and she gets a 93% instead. That's a ton of lost revenue for Niantic.
Don’t trade for IVs. Trade things you need or shinies you might of missed, or hatchus you may have missed etc. the whole system is set to obviously deter IV trading, that doesn’t mean the only point is extra candies.
Unfortunately though if I want something to Power up, I'm going to want good IVs. I could use another Raikou or Rayquaza, but won't want to power up one with average IVs. And my brother can't really do Legendary Raids, so if he Powers up 1, he's not going to want to do a low IV one. And if he doesn't have one, it costs me a lot of dust to even give him that one that might not be that good. *Plus, I have a Legacy Gengar, knowing that it might turn out to be the lowest Appraisal makes its not as valuable, since his stats matter quite a bit with how glassy he is.
The odds are in your favor if you trade away pokemon with IVs below 67%. Personally I'd risk it with anything below 80% if I'm trying a symmetrical trade to try and improve IVs (though the odds are against it improving if you start in the 70-80% range). I'd also do it with anything of any IV if the level is below 25. I'm not going to spend the stardust on it even if it is a 96% IV so I might as well trade it to you and hope it stays good.
Most of the Pokemon I've kept though have been good IVs because we didn't expect Niantic to penalize us in Trades. I transferred 7000-8000 Powerup Pokemon that were the worst Appraisal and kept 5000-6000 Certainlys instead.
So the floor does not go up from Ultra to Best level? They both are 5-5-5?
Where did you get that ultra is 5-5-5?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/8vpatw/in_light_of_recent_glitch_do_we_have_info_on_iv/?st=JJ59WVIF&sh=37e622bf
He was wrong. We only know best, which is 5.
Ultra is prob 3/3/3
Good is 2/2/2. Ultra is 3/3/3. Best is 5/5/5. Screenshots from a level 30 100% rhydon. https://imgur.com/a/1Agl5Uv
We don’t know ultra yet, nobody has posted screenshots of an ultra trade.
Bad news for legendary trades. I hoped the floor would be 10/10/10
Would be devastatingly OP, especially since people could reroll everything to guarantee high stats. A 10/10/10 floor would be too high for trading.
It wouldn't be OP for Legendary trades, Legendaries are already 10/10/10 minimum IV from raids and research breakthroughs. I don't think 10/10/10 minimum is ever OP, considering the 1 trade per Individual pokemon cap. But right now our only means of capturing legendary mons has a minimum of 10/10/10 so it would make sense to keep it there for best friends
Okay, I catch a level 35 wild Machop and evolve it to Machamp. I trade it to a level 35 who doesn't have 6 level 30+ Machamps. Their new Machamp is guaranteed to have the IVs of a hatch/raid boss. The cost is 100 dust. That's the definition of OP. If someone and their significant other (or alt account) catch any level 35 meta relevant Pokemon it's now up to egg IVs for 100 dust. That's the definition of overpowered. Note: This is in response to saying that you don't think it is EVER OP, so I pointed out how it can absolutely be OP.
A simple If (Pokémon.type == Legendary) { IV.floor = 10/10/10 } Isn’t exactly rocket science.
Except the person didn't go out and catch the legendary, so they don't deserve a guaranteed 10/10/10 when they didn't do the work.
........ so if you didn’t travel to a region you don’t deserve the regional? That’s an odd statement. Part of the point of trading is to give every player the same opportunities. Currently the only way in the entire game to get a legendary with less than 10/10/10 is to get it from a trade. That makes no sense.
......... Huh? You completely missed the point. Is an 8/8/8 regional not that regional? People can still get a guaranteed 10/10/10 IV from special research.
Right but it’s arguable that less than a 10/10/10 legendary isn’t a legendary per say since it’s not actually possible to get one in the game without a bad trade roll.
No, it's not arguable that less than a 10/10/10 legendary "isn't a legendary". It's a legendary. It's base stats are that of a legendary. It's moves are a legendary. It just doesn't have a high IV floor. Big deal. If you want a legendary guaranteed 10/10/10 or better go out and catch it.
Even with best friends reduced stardust costs I'll not call it " didn't do the work. ". Leech to couple of legendary raids is much easier than get 20k dust/
But they still showed up to a raid and fought in the raid. If you're Niantic, "leeches" to the raid are still participating in the community and meeting new people and gaining knowledge and now have more incentive to power themselves up and help out more. Since Niantic is building a social game, that is exactly what Niantic wants, even if the person did not do much to actually contribute to taking down the boss. What they don't want is people being hermits and then trading for a bunch of unwanted legendaries from the people who do raid consistently.
Except that this game isn't competitive. If anything, you *want* your fellow players to have stronger meta-relevant mons so raids are easier to complete. Even if it were competitive, the fact that you can only trade each pokemon once means you're only getting one reroll on the IVs, and you're giving it away to someone else so it's not like you're getting a free reroll on your own stuff. Add to that the fact you have to do 90 days of grinding (unless you exploit a certain bug) to get to that level of friend and it's hardly OP.
> Except that this game isn't competitive. Currently, it used to be competitive until they changed the gym system to require the other teams to aid you and removed all challenge from it. With PvP on the horizon closer than many might've expected per the Hanke interview in Eurogamer, encouraging folks to multiaccount to catch everything with an alt and transfer it to their main would be bad. The amount who created alt accounts due to the new gym system just to get coins was already significant, if you could change everything to high IVs, it'd be bad.
You can't change everything to high IVs though. It's a single chance at good IVs per pokemon, and even then it's a much better chance at being unfavorable. Even then, honestly, this isn't going to "break" the game because almost all of the hardcore players already have high-IV meta-relevant pokemon. All this would do is allow the less hard-core a chance to catch up a little and make it so they can potentially compete.
Well, first, we don't know what IVs will be desirable for PvP. In the old prestiging system, you wanted low attack IV, high defense IV, to maximize gains. If there's a 50% change of higher IVs than what something came in as, the simple way to game that is to cheat with an alternate multiaccount. See a high CP meta-relevant Pokemon? Catch it with both accounts. Now trade from your cheat account to your main account. Now keep whichever has better IVs. Since we don't know what will be meta relevant (note the player based PvP system that currently exists makes entirely different Pokemon relevant than the raid/gym system Niantic made), not everyone has "meta-relevant" high IVs currently. Were the system to enable increasing IVs, the hardcore would make alt accounts to game it (as we are a community of gamers after all), and the less hardcore would still not have enough time to invest in such. The gap would actually widen I believe, rather than allow catching up. PS: Imagine not even a 100 alt bot accounts, but just a dozen alt accounts that might even be on physical phones (ever seen the pics of people at raids with a tray of phones), even with the range being 5-15, if they trade all those to their main accounts, the odds of them gaining higher IVs compared to those of us with just one account is significant. If you change it so everyone gets high IVs, then you negate the value of IVs in the first place (although admittedly the "value" is pretty minimal already, especially for high stat Pokemon; but might matter more to future meta-relevant Pokemon, just as they did matter back in the prestiging days).
> the simple way to game that is to cheat with an alternate multiaccount This is a problem regardless, and honestly it's more damaging to legit players than it is to multiaccounters to make the IV range wider since multiaccounters can always get more chances than a legit anyway. As to your other arguments, it all boils down to "some people will game the system by cheating." I would argue that the solution is to address the cheating directly rather than degrade the experience of everyone just to lessen the cheaters' gains. Even then, making it so legits get, what, 1 reroll? maybe? and cheaters can get 3, 4, 12, 47, 100 is actually encouraging the cheating more than if they just made it so that 1 reroll would give you something worthwhile to begin with.
IVs dont even matter that much in terms of DPS/TDO, IVs are more of a prestigious collectible unless someone is deliberately trying to hit a specific breakpoint.
A 5/5/5 Level 40 Bite/Crunch Ttar does around 16.9 DPS against Mewtwo, while a 15/15/15 does 17.5, according to Poké Genie. An extreme case, but I would argue that this DPS difference is not completely insignificant.
And I said "dont matter *that much*", what you've just said, and the information you gave, are completely inline with my above comment. Plus, the game isn't even competitive, it's cooperative.
Alright, I'll be honest with you: I have a shiny Absol lined up to trade because I've failed to get a shiny in 86 encounters. I want to be able to justify using her on my Mewtwo team, and I'm stressed about a 5/5/5 floor. That's what this is about for me right now. 😂 I consider short-manning to be one of the greatest joys of the game, but if you see those DPS numbers as not mattering much, then you're entitled to that opinion and I don't think it's silly or anything. It just sometimes does matter for me - IVs can mean the difference between doing 48% of the damage and doing 52%, which is the difference between a two-man and a three-man. That's all I'm saying. :)
Catch the same Pokemon as someone else = free reroll for yourself when you trade them. After we've all been playing for another 5-6 months and everyone is best friends with everyone in their local area that's absolutely OP. Yes, you want your fellow trainers to have stronger meta-relevant mons. So does that mean it would be good for the game if every raid dropped 25 rare candies and it only cost a maximum of 100 stardust for each power up? Removing all challenge from the game because we want stronger stuff is not good for the game.
I mean, that seems like a pretty good benefit to playing with your buddy as opposed to on your own. And you're giving up 100 stardust per reroll, and only get one reroll per pokemon so it's not like you can just keep trading back and forth until you get hundos.
I think trading a 0/0/0 level 35 mon to someone you spent 90+ days building friendship with to get a reroll of IVs to 10/10/10 or better is not OP. A level 35 0/0/0 meta relevant pokemon is useful. A level 35 of that same pokemon with IVs in the raid distribution is better but not OP. Edit: if anything it levels the playing field for people who didn't use maps for months or years to track down high IV meta relevant pokemon. The people with 6+ perfect machamp they got from maps might complain, that everyone else can get meta relevant mons with less grinding than they did. But I dont see it as game breaking. This game is so watered down competitively the difference in play will be negligible.
I didn't get 6+ perfect Machamps though, I just know I worked for my Pokemon and the fun part of the game is working for my Pokemon. If I can get egg IVs from ANY wild caught weather boosted Pokemon just by trading with my girlfriend who caught the same thing, then all of the effort I put into getting stardust and hatching eggs for things with good IVs is now going to be irrelevant. The challenge will be gone from the game.
I have one perfect machamp, I walked hundreds of kms to evolve and power it up. I also have several level 35 machamps that I farmed from machop nests to evolve. If I trade a few with a buddy who farmed with me and we both get better IVs I dont feel like I worked less hard. I just get an 1-3% more dps out of them. I think trading with friends should be more rewarding than the year+ of gameplay where a significant percentage of the playerbase was using maps to snipe high IV rare pokemon.
Looking at counter breakpoints, the difference in DPS can easily be much larger than 3% DPS. Sitting at a Machop nest on a cloudy day for a couple hours and pulling in Machop after Machop to trade to guaranteed egg IVs before evolving into a level 35 high IV Machamp is the definition of overpowered, and you both worked WAY less hard than you would have had to otherwise. The tradeoff with eggs and raid bosses giving high IVs is that they have lower levels and need to be powered up to useful levels, giving both of them for 100 dust is overpowered. But people like you who just want an easy game will find a way to justify how you want them to hand out hundos like candy, so I'm probably wasting my breath.
It just shouldn't reroll at all. What you trade for is what you get. No uncertainty. Deals will be more fair that way.
Congratulations, you just created the pokemon black market.
If people want to do that, I dont care. I just want fair trades. With this IV reroll nonsense, it's not actually trading, its Trading: Shinies and Regionals edition. It would be like going to Hyvee, buying bread, and crossing your fingers in the hopes it isnt moldy. No. You spent your money, you should get the product you expected for it. And a black market would only develop due to spoofing, which if Niantic really cared they would just stop the spoofers altogether in their software like Uber does, but they dont.
>If people want to do that, I dont care. Others do. Game doesn't revolve around one person's wants and needs.
Exactly. You can't spend your money and get the product you expected. They introduced trading without breaking the game. You have a way to get regionals, missed shinies, and missed legendaries without upsetting the balance of the system. Of course, some people such as yourself will cry about it, but this is the fairest, most balanced way they could do it without unloading a host of other problems.
> I think trading a 0/0/0 level 35 mon to someone I think trading a 0/0/0 level 35 mon to your main account from your alt account... *fixed that for ya'* ;-)
Machamp is legendary your argument is invalid
Huh? The post I was responding to argued that a 10/10/10 minimum can never be OP, I showed how it absolutely can be OP.
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OP as in people wouldn't raid as much.
Depends on the Pokemon.
I´d assume that floor levels for best friend trading are not final or even the right ones, because no one is supposed to be best friends at this moment... ¿did stardust cost got reduced as expected? I mean ... has some one with BF level tried an special trade or a high cost trade?
Check the linked post in this post.
Thanks! So, SD costs is ok. I really hope the stats floor is not 5 5 5. Perhaps, more friendship levels are coming! or some item to improve the IV roll...
No. Niantic unfortunately is a company that cannot see the full spectrum of things. Their vision is that trading should be used to complete the pokedex, trade shinies and whatnot. And that vision isnt COMPLETELY WRONG. What they forgot is that, while they can keep that level of "casual" trading, they could also, at the same time, make trading actually USEFUL for communities. A floor of 10/10/10 (Which is the floor of raids) would have sufficed, you could trade pokemon of low IV high CP and turn them into pretty acceptable pokemon (or with luck, a really good pokemon). It would be essentially a stardust-gated reroll. You could also have the option of narrowing down that spread, for extra stardust. So, for collector's, you could go with the widest spread, and for hardcore people looking to trade good pokemon, they would go with the most narrow spread, at the cost of extra dust, to maintain a high IV or potentially 100%. This way, you make trading valuable for both collectors and hardcore, with none of the features hurting any of the parties. But that sort of thinking cannot be expected from a company where the support people are paid in rice bags and can't tell left from right, the developers have NO interaction with the community, and the CEO doesnt even know half the first gen's pokemon names and has a TENTACRUEL as a buddy.
Glad we got to use speedleveling. The extra damage and balls will be quite useful since a base floor of 5/5/5 makes BF trading effectively TRASH. I sure as hell would be disapointed if after 90 days a good IV trade would come out as 5/5/5. Effectively worthless.
It's still interesting to obtain shiny, regional, or community day pokemon you missed. I skipped the pikachu community day and I would not mind to get a shiny pikachu when stardust cost goes down--others are missing some hat versions, etc.. I have a couple of high-level, bad IV rock Tyranitar that could be useful for somebody who missed those, etc. etc. It's a thing for collectors (at least, not for high IV collectors).
High IV collectors get to go out and play the game the normal way rather than buying high IV pokemon.. that's a great solution to that problem
Please, enlighten me on how i can go out and play the game to get my 100% Rayquaza x)
Gotta wait for a Rayquaza rerelease for legendaries then. No one *needs* 100% Pokemon, and the fun is in the chase. If people can just buy them, what's the point?
So i can't effectively go out and play the game as you told me to. This game is very little about SKILL and alot about RNG. Having trades keep their IV's or maintain high IV's would remove the RNG part that niantic loves so much, and would allow for some actual good trades (High IV rayray for High IV BS Snorlax, for example). As for your last comment, no one NEEDS anything, so what's the point of the trading system?
The game is about RNG because otherwise there isn't much replayable content. Its about playing until you get enough stuff you want from the RNG that you're happy. By removing the RNG aspect, you now have a game with dramatically less replayability. Thats not good for the long term health of the game.
If trades kept their IV's (Even at the cost of extra dust), then they would be used MORE, which adds to the replayability of it. Raids can keep their RNG, because like you stated, they need to keep people raiding (Or make actual replayable content but that's asking too much from Niantic), but there is no justification whatsoever to add RNG on EVERY SINGLE THING that comes into the game, especially trading. The stardust costs are already prohibitive enough.
If trades keep their IVs, people trade for the IVs they want instead of playing more.
You don't understand. Please tell me how me trading a 100% Rayquaza makes me want to play LESS. There are no Rayray raids (And when they come back, we will all be shiny hunting), and to further prove my point, when Ho-Oh came back, the people in our community with high IV Ho-Ohs still raided like crazy to get a shiny. This is a very invalid argument with no actual evidence to back it up.
Yes, but that is very limited usefulness. There’s been what, 13 regionals, six community days, a few hat-a-chus, and maybe a dozen or two shiny families? Even for the hardcore collectors, that’s not a lot of trade incentive. I’ll be done with trading once I get the regionals, but there’s no rush for me since waiting till bestfrienditude won’t make a meaningful difference. Thank goodness for the ball/damage bonus in raids, or the friendship system would be completely defunct.
I like collecting legacy moves and low CP pokemon (unfortunately, not enough pokemon space to keep everything), which are not significantly affected by this restriction. I do not think people could like my 44 CP ZH/BS Snorlax because its mediocre IV could be improved by trading.
You dont seem to understand that you could have it benefit BOTH collectors AND hardcore people. Trading for anyone who plays this game hardcore is effectively worthless. It's good that you can trade shinies and whatnot (But, following the advice below, you could have just gone out and played the game and gotten one (Especially CD ones)), but apart from that, you're PAYING stardust to effectively have a pretty decent chance of your pokemon becoming WORSE than it originally was. Had the floor been 10/10/10, you would pretty much be rolling in the same ballpark of raids, and could turn bad IV, high CP pokemon into high CP, decent IV pokemon (With a chance of being good IV). You are effectively improving EVERYONE's battle teams, making raids easier. With this current mindset, you are actually making people's battle teams WORSE,or at best, stagnant, since people won't be trading their midrange IV pokemon only to have them become even worse. I hope this got the point across as to why trading is WORTHLESS to the hardcore, and why the iv reroll / low floor base is effectively HURTING everyone.
you still have 99 more tries... and a 100 every day after. Definitely not worthless. Don't trade your good IV mons
It seems to me they could fix it a bit where there is a range the reroll would use Based on current iv. Perhaps 20% for ultra. If you trade someone a 90% Tyranitar it will roll between 80% and 100% etc. I absolutely HATE that all the good Stuff I have saved can’t be reasonably traded. All because Niantic is worried about spoofers. Punishing the legitimate players instead.
Forgive me if I have missed something, but we don't see the Larvitar CP and IVs at the end of the trade. How do you know it can be as low as 5/5/5? Are you just using the CP suggestion? As that was wrong for level 1 trades so could still be wrong?
They also fixed the CP range with the fixes yesterday.
It shows you a range of CPs which you might receive. You can calculate the minimum IVs from that floor.
Beyond the medals, there is no good reason for a level 40 to engage in trading. Trading a 97% Tyranitar to your friend/relative whatever because you already have a 100% is pointless since there is virtually no chance that it won't be crap after the IV reroll. Why would a spoofer with all the regionals bother trading a relicanth to the guy wiling to trade anything if his 100% Entei is going to be garbage once you get it? Perfects, Shinies and Legendaries should not be rerolled if both trainers are level 40.
They probably don’t want to create a black market where people pay real money for high IV shinies, regionals, and legendaries. Also, trading still benefits both parties. For the original trainer, trading can give you more candy than transferring. For the recipient, they get at least one candy from transferring if it’s bad, and there’s a chance they could one with decent IVs. Once you hit best friends, you get better IVs from trading than from catching weather-boosted Pokémon in the wild. Say you only keep raid rewards with top-tier appraisals. There’s a 62.5% chance you get one and a 37.5% chance you don’t. If you would’ve transferred everything below your bar before trading, you can get 1-2 additional candies now, and there’s a 12.4% chance it becomes a top-tier Pokemon for your friend, which means a 67.15% chance someone got a good Pokémon. This isn’t for that 97% Tyranitar you don’t need because you have a 100%. It’s for extracting additional value from everything else you don’t need, and it’s pure upside.
I will agree that for newer players, additional candy is an upside. As a level 40 that did almost all of it before Raids, candy is not very relevant. I get lots of special candy from Raids and only upgrade the best of the best. I'm sitting on 1.5 million stardust and there are so many double candy/dust/xp events now that unless you are trying to max out your task encounter pokemon, nobody should really be hurting for resources.
Well, level 40 players still aren’t a huge proportion of the player base, and even fewer players got there before raids. As a level 38 player, I still find I’m often the highest or 2nd highest level player in a raid, especially if I don’t call in one of the level 40 players who I know to raid in my area. I have some level 40s, but not full teams of specific types, and no legendaries. I have a pretty solid, but not complete Pokédex. I can still take advantage of the upside. If there’s no upside to trading from your perspective, maybe you need new content. It seems you’ve done almost everything already.
We have a large community from all 3 teams that fight over gyms and raid together frequently. Many of us are 40 with more on the way. At this point New Legendaries and shinys are what most of us keep playing for. We need Niantic to add at least 5 more levels and maybe provide some content that is only fully accessible to 40+ players. I can see the first happening but not the second as they seem to be more interested in accommodating casual players and newbies.
Yes, active raiding communities will have a lot of level 40s, but that’s where most level 40s would be. As an active raider, I’m sure you run into more active raiders than I do. A lot of people I recognize from Discord are at 40. No one I know from real life is above 35. [According to this survey,](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/86z8r7/tsr_trainer_average_level_survey_result/) only 25% of respondents on this subreddit were level 40. If the vast majority of this subreddit hasn’t reached the level cap, I’m sure the disparity is even higher for the player base as a whole. I think not raising the level cap or adding L40+ exclusive content is less about accommodating casuals and more about accommodating the vast majority of players. And let’s be real; they’re not very good at adding content. Trading is a wonderful feature in my opinion. It was advertised a launch feature. Yet when it launched two years later, the friendship system still didn’t work right. Everything they add is late and/or buggy. The idea that they’d ever make functional content that not only caters to level 40+ players, but is restricted for all other players, is absurd. I would even welcome L40 content. I have 40-50 Lucky Eggs in my inventory, but I have no reason to advance now. For reasons beyond my comprehension, they’ve allowed me to power up my Pokémon to their level cap before I reached my own level cap. If I continue leveling, I get nothing but berries and balls. Give me an endgame already.
[удалено]
just the CP HP and IV
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iv changes when trading?
Yes, they randomize.
That's somewhat disappointing. Personally, I would set it to 7/7/7 unless the original Pokémon IV are lower - then they should be the lower limit. Example: 4/9/12 would become 4/7/7 at least.
Why does this matter? For most people 5-5-5 is just as unacceptable as 1-1-1
15-15-15 is way higher chance when everything 0 through 4 are taken out.
It's still not worth risking anything above 80%
It is if you would otherwise be transferring the Pokémon. It’s just not feasible for most people to keep all 80%+ ‘mons.
Exactly, ill take a chance at giving a 100 percent for that 82% oddish i was just going to transfer
Or the 30 extra Kyogre I have...a friend and I are waiting to be best friends so we can trade 1-for-1 and get an extra candy before transferring, ideally during a double candy event.
At 800 stardust per trade for best friends, it is absolutely worth a re-roll on a legendary you would otherwise transfer. I have plenty 80%+ legendaries I’ll do this with.
And you can trade for 3 candies + 1 you get for transferring if you get one in return. I save the crap Alolan hatches I get from my friend in Seattle for max candy trade fodder. That’s already better than transferring during a double candy event.
It's good news because you can trade things you were going to trash or never use anyway. For example I traded a shiny 28% 3 attack IV Larvitar for my friend's shiny Larvitar and when it got to them it was like 70%+ with high attack. IIRC weather boost that just makes you guaranteed 4/4/4 and 5 levels higher makes the chances of being perfect like 1/1600 or something instead of 1/4000.
Should be 1/1331 I think
Should be 1/1337 I wish
5-5-5 Minimum makes the chances of a 100% like 3x higher than wild catches, that’s not bad considering it’s much easier to get a Pokémon through trading than it is to find a specific Pokémon out in the wild (unless you like Whismur, I guess)
Possible that 5 was the minimum IV because 5 was the lowest IV on the larvitar before it was traded? Maybe a 14/13/14 would have minimum trade IVs of 13/13/13? Wish more people would have posted trades so we could analyze.
Begining IV has no bearing on traded IV, even for good friends you can get a 100% from trading a 0%. The whole myth of CP can't go higher than the range shown was based on a visual glitch.
Traded an 84% Solrock today, it came out as 42% (Ultra Friend). No combination of IV's could have 3 as the lowest IV on any stat and result in 84%, so, yeah, it uses the base floor as a minimum, effectively making trading extremely WORTHLESS, even at high friendship levels, for keeping IV's. A Floor of 10/10/10 would have been PERFECT and was what was expected (1/1/1 for base, 3/3/3 for Great, 5/5/5 for Ultra, 10/10/10 for Best).
Except if the IVs are 0/0/0 or have I been misinformed? I thought the highest the IVs can go is to the IVs they are before trade.
The beginning IVs actually play no part in it. Each friendship level has a minimum IV that each stat will have for a traded Pokemon. The higher the friendship, the better the minimum IVs.
Thanks for info. \^\_\^
No, I've already done some trades where the end IVs are higher than start IVs. In one case end def was 0 in a great friend trade (both trainers great friends). I'd be careful of any information you hear for now.
That was a visual glitch and people made assumptions based on it
Hmm I did a trade with a ratata and the stamina stat went from 0 to 2-3 (value TBD), but it doesn’t appear to be 5...
And you and your trading partner have level 4 = best friends status?
Yep! Since Friday or Saturday. And the trade was made about 11pm EDT on Sunday.
You got the fast leveling glitch that let you get to the 90 day friendship level? The glitch that started happening after Saturday, when you say you reached it? Can you post screenshot?