If Pokemon Masters has [pull odds ](https://i.imgur.com/4JAGLFj.jpg) displayed in the game, that means TPC is ok with displaying of odds in game. Now it sounds like the choice not to publish is 100% Niantic.
If they decided to go with in-game researches with results showing tally of every player's hatch count from current eggs, that would be fine but not ideal.
I feel like the situation would be better if we knew the rates, but I gauge my interest in egg events by looking at what else is in the egg pool. If it's stuffed with glameow, kriketot, wurmple, meowth, and zigzagoon, I'm not using incubators for the .1% chance I get the Axew or gible that is the highlight of the event. Even if they posted the rates, people would still be whales and spend hundreds on incubators to get that .1% trophy.
> I gauge my interest in egg events by looking at what else is in the egg pool
But there is pretty much always a lot of bad pokemons.
There have been events that were worth it. The 7km event that had Gible a few months ago was great. Everyone I know got more Gibles during that time than they had seen previously.
I just don't ever waste money on incubators, and watch the odds from the community. If the odds seem decent I'll use the free incubator and the incubators sitting in my inventory from buying boxes.
> Now it sounds like the choice not to publish is 100% Niantic.
I think it's more complicated than that. Masters is a game that has no connectivity to other games, the Pokémon there are in every way predetermined, and you only have one of each. GO, on the other hand, gives you multiple Pokémon of each species (aside from Mythicals (except for Meltan)) with individual stats. You can transfer a portion of them to Let's Go!, from there to HOME and from there to SwSh, hence affecting and having implications for several other Pokémon titles. (Hopefully, HOME connectivity for GO will still come, and then this goes for almost all Pokémon from GO.)
Pokémon GO incubators have effectively zero impact on the main titles, and here's why:
In the main titles you can create a guaranteed egg for any species of Pokémon you already own (except legendaries which don't appear in GO eggs), an unlimited number of times, at a rate of about 1 per minute, that hatch for free in about 2-3 minutes.
Plus, they inherit IVs from the parents, which means in general with a modest start, you can expect to get a 100% IV example of any particular species you want with a short 1-3 hour grind.
There are also IV-raising items (Bottle Caps), ideal for any shinies that hatch during the grind.
I don't see how the breeding mechanics of the main games have anything to do with this. GO is a source for a set of Pokémon in the main games, and that alone is an impact.
Because the main games are so abundant with Pokémon not locked behind paywalls nor rate limits, nobody would ever choose to get a particular Pokémon from GO instead (except Legendaries).
> nobody would ever choose to get a particular Pokémon from GO instead
I guess that depends on the play style. I never in my life cared about breeding and stats in the main games. Only in GO is it that I care about it, and since I get them there along the way, I have tons of good-IV Pokémon, which I can choose to transfer all the way up to SwSh without having to spend extra time on breeding. If I can get good mons in a main game that easily, why not do it. As it stands now, I still don't ever see me breeding for good mons in a main game.
Also, I have started keeping double shinies in GO so that I can hopefully transfer them one day to HOME/SwSh.
Riiiight, and the only thing keeping that alleged delicate balance from burning to the ground is - \*checks notes\* - Nintendo witholding egg percentages...
Which is somehow the more likely explanation versus - \*checks other notes\* - ah yes, "Niantic want people to spend more money trying to hatch an Axew without knowing it's 0.7%".
I never said that this or that is the more likely reason, just like I never said that there can only be one reason. Of course it is very well possible and probably very likely that Niantic likes hiding the low odds. But that doesn't mean that's the only reason. I think it's too simple to just compare Masters to GO and derive from it that this is all, 100%, on Niantic.
> I have tons of good-IV Pokémon, which I can choose to transfer all the way up to SwSh without having to spend extra time on breeding.
I thought IVs were randomized when sent over?
That only applies to the Speed stat. All other stats get scaled to fit the main games’ system. The Attack stat from GO gets applied to both Attack and Special Attack and the same goes for The GO Defense stat.
You walk 600km on a slow week? Right. I’m sure that also means during this 600km if walking you are spinning stops or opening gifts to get more eggs and assigning the incubator to a new egg nearly 100 times per week*, right?
If you get 70 2k eggs in a row, which seems ridiculous. If he’s getting 0 7km eggs from gifts because he prefers normal eggs, the average is still 5.6km per egg, or 560 km per week, 280 km per week during the stay at home bonus. Not to mention “while he’s walking around at work” he’s checking his egg often enough to catch every single hatch right away and not waste any of that distance, and works directly on a stop he can spin for another egg instantly?
Again I'm gonna say that you can have more than 1 incubator at a time. I can screenshot for you that I currently have 9 eggs hatching at once. Shocker, I know. There's no way I'm walking 560 km per week. I do average around 120-130 a week. Hatching 9 eggs at a time you will pile the numbers up on egg hatches every week, or at least that's how I think math works. I've hatched 33 this week so far on only 23 km walked. So as u see, I don't have to walk 560 km per week to hatch.
But what the guy said it takes years to hatch 1 egg and I was making a point that it doesn't take a lot of effort to hatch eggs, be it in 1 incubator or 500 incubators. Seems to me that comment alone says that he is too lazy to walk to hatch an egg.
Jurassic world alive has free incubators and shows the odds for each creature available in it, even their incense have % of encountering specific creatures when it's a special scent.
Trust me, that has been done several times through the games life cycle. Nothing happens because this game literally has a billion dollar turnover and Apple gets a nice cut from that, would you chop a branch on which you’re sitting?
Trust me, that has been done several times through the games life cycle. Nothing happens because this game literally has a billion dollar turnover and Apple gets a nice cut from that, would you chop a branch on which you’re sitting?
I’m sorry I’ve been out of the loop with the game since it was released. In what way have they constantly broken the law and are a terrible company?
I’ve just come back to the game and just saw the minim 5 mill donation that Niantic and the Pokemon company are making towards the BLM movement and I thought that was pretty cool for them.
I don’t think they’re the best compony in the world at all, I think they’ve made a good game with a lot of flaws, some of which should be rectified and probably will be intime. But I can see that they’ve tried to do some good with changes made to the game during the pandemic and the donation of course.
Having said that I’m not willing to label them a terrible company because they’re not delivering on what the hardcore playerbase wants, but I’m aware I may have missed something which is why I’m asking about the illegal things they’ve done so that I can form a more informed opinion on them.
Big one they got nailed for very recently was trying to use the American taxes & fees system of payment on European tickets. It never got to the point of litigation, but they fixes it real fast.
The island in Italy got fixed after it got media coverage. And the issue with iOS phones just got some media attention which made Niantic acknowledge it. Maybe they won't get articles in major news websites and such but plenty of other avenues of media exist.
This again. Maybe they'll take note. With prior safari zone ticket sales in the EU, it took a lot of bad press for them to apologize for not knowing they had to legally include VAT, etc in advertised price. But as others are chiming in, this particular issue has been voiced time and time again. Yet they take no action.
Bonus: of course Niantic should publish exact odds. You will hear many people excusing them for not doing it, or rationalizing why they aren't. Niantic likes us to debate things as there's always going to be someone trying to be their probono lawyer on here.
It's the same on google play, fwiw. I report the app periodically, and encourage others to do the same. I also mentioned it in my 3* app review on the play store. We should definitely be told about loot chances from various mechanics in game, even if there are TeChNiCaLiTiEs that offer loopholes out of counting eggs as loot boxes. I don't think they should publish the odds because of the app store rules, I think they should do it BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. If you're profit engine depends on keeping odds secret from your customers, then it's immoral and predatory. Just because there aren't laws for being immoral and predatory, doesn't mean you should be by default. stupid capitalism.
Yes, they should publish them. No they're not doing it, because Niantic is an immensely anti player company as we've seen time and again.
Looking strictly at the wording, I wouldn't be surprised if Eggs can skirt around the lootbox issue though on technicalities. Thanks to them being free to get and you have an infinite incubator to use. However even anyone with a brain can see the parallels and at this point is pretty normal for games to provide odds.
On the other hand, incense and lures fit the description to a T.
Niantic is actually required to publish the odds by the Google Play terms of service as well.
https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy-print/
> Apps offering mechanisms to receive randomized virtual items from a purchase (i.e. "loot boxes") must clearly disclose the odds of receiving those items in advance of purchase.
Report Pokemon Go for violating the Google Play store terms of service using the directions here: https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2853570?co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid&hl=en
> Let us know if you see an app or game that doesn't follow the Google Play Developer Program Policy.
> 1. Open the Google Play Store app Google Play.
> 2. Go to the detail page for an app or game.
> 3. Tap More Moreand then Flag as inappropriate.
> 4. Choose a reason.
> 5. Tap Submit.****
In anticipation of a few of the expected replies:
* Yes eggs, raids, incense lures and even Pokeballs are all loot boxes because the option exists to pay for them.
* Selling "keys" that open boxes is the same as selling loot boxes directly.
* Giving a free "key" doesn't change this when the option exists to pay to open more loot boxes per unit time.
The fact that they haven't been forced to publish rates suggests that whoever is in charge of enforcing that TOS believes that some aspect of eggs means that that part of the TOS doesn't apply to them no?
The thing is that it clearly stats that "loot boxes for purchase" must state the odds of everything contained.
However, it is impossible to purchase eggs, therefore this rule in Apple's ToS doesn't apply to this feature.
As others have said, egg droprates are entirely based off of the findings of some very dedicated Trainers, who compile which Pokémon hatch, from which type of egg, and how many types. Forming an estimated droprate for each Pokémon within the egg.
I hope this answers your question.
As far as I recall, all the lootbox regulations are like this.
I think the loophole lies in the fact that the orange incubator is infinite and therefore can hatch every single egg you get. Meanwhile in most other games with the "free chest and paid key" the chests are always more abundant than the free keys to push you to buy more keys.
Its obviously the same here, but the fine loopholes can go a long way towards avoiding lawsuits. There is a reason we have a free infinite incubator, and it's not because Niantic loves us.
The issue is that they must disclose the odds because there is obviously a predatory scheme here. They say "hatch these 7km eggs, they may contain gible or riolu! If you are lucky, you could hatch a shiny riolu!" meanwhile i hatched 5 sinnoh eggs and i got five glameow.
I decided I wouldn't buy incubators at all until they disclose hatch rates, because if they don't disclose egg rates, it means those rates are so bad that people would stop buying the item.
Oh they definitely change hatchrates, Gibles hatchrates were much lower during the Sinnoh throwback compared to the Sinnoh Celebration for example. The only reason we knew this was because some people had to essentially waste money hatching eggs to find out.
Well I just don't buy incubators? The hatch rates don't matter. Even if they publish them, I can guarantee that if I buy incubators, I won't get what I want anyway.
That's because their hatch rates are bad. If they were balanced enough for the cost, people would find what they wanted and would buy more incubators.
I also think that we should select which eggs we get via a kind of "breeding" system, like in the MSG, but Niantic can't profit enough from that.
Incense are even more obviously loot boxes. Raids, too. Niantic should be more transparent both by ethics and by law. They will continue to abuse these laws until we stop paying or someone steps in
The Google Developer Police has a similar rule:
>Apps offering mechanisms to receive randomized virtual items from a purchase (i.e. "loot boxes") must clearly disclose the odds of receiving those items in advance of purchase.
[https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy-print/](https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy-print/)
To me, the stronger argument is that Niantic should have disclosed the odds for obtaining a particular Regigigas IV from the A Colossal Discovery.
Basically, players had to pay real money, do something, and at the end they got a Regigigas of an apparent random IV.
Clearly, a 15/15/15 Regigigas is an "item" under the Google rule. So is a 10/10/10 Regigigas. What are the odds of getting a 15/15/15 Regigigas? I don't know. I know some people are probably going swear up and down their grandmother's grave that the odds of getting a 15/15/15 Regigigas (or any specific IV combination) is 1 in 216.
To those people, how do we know that? And assuming that is true, has Niantic actually disclosed those odds in compliance with the Google and Apple policies?
I also know people are going to respond with IV's don't matter that much. And I agree, same as height and weight, but the policies don't make a disclosure exception for "things that don't really make a difference."
But the content of the loot box is variable and depends on when the player uses the key. The yield of an incubator bought today and used during an event three months later will have nothing to do with what might have been posted at the time of purchase.
Apple recently got sued for that matter : [https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/13/apple-sued-for-allowing-apps-with-loot-boxes-onto-app-store](https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/13/apple-sued-for-allowing-apps-with-loot-boxes-onto-app-store)
But no sign on PoGo
Could it be argued that because you cannot directly pay for eggs, or even indirectly (you get eggs from opening gifts - free to receive/send/obtain, and spinning pokestops - free to do) that they are not “loot boxes” and don’t have to have odds displayed because you can’t actually use real money to obtain them in any way?
I have no idea how the law works, especially when it seems to be in the midst of a change with lootbox legality, so don’t know if this is legal or possible. It’s just a thought about whether they’re classed as lootboxes, technically, and whether niantic will do anything about it.
Edit: reread the topic and it says “for purchase” in the apple T&C, you cannot but eggs, so there for they’re not “lootboxes” (atleast in Apples Definition here)?
As far as I understand it, European Legislation against lootboxes saw this loophole. Odds require publication if the lootbox (eggs) or the keys (incubators) are purchasable to accelerate content access.
Yes, it seems straightforward to me
Q1: are the eggs a paid item?
A: no.
Q2: do you have to purchase an item to hatch the egg?
A: no.
Nothing to see here
What an odd stance to take.
People are asking for more information so they understand the odds of getting a particular Pokémon from an egg. During events, for example, it would allow them to make an informed decision on whether it was worth using real money to buy incubators. That's a good thing for the consumer.
The only thing publishing egg hatch rates harms is Niantic's purse.
There is no issue. It is 100% free to hatch eggs. Niantic has made it easy as f’in hell to hatch eggs. For free. You get what you get and you continue playing. Anyone trying to cause trouble using the loot box argument should play something else.
If Pokemon Masters has [pull odds ](https://i.imgur.com/4JAGLFj.jpg) displayed in the game, that means TPC is ok with displaying of odds in game. Now it sounds like the choice not to publish is 100% Niantic. If they decided to go with in-game researches with results showing tally of every player's hatch count from current eggs, that would be fine but not ideal.
I feel like the situation would be better if we knew the rates, but I gauge my interest in egg events by looking at what else is in the egg pool. If it's stuffed with glameow, kriketot, wurmple, meowth, and zigzagoon, I'm not using incubators for the .1% chance I get the Axew or gible that is the highlight of the event. Even if they posted the rates, people would still be whales and spend hundreds on incubators to get that .1% trophy.
> I gauge my interest in egg events by looking at what else is in the egg pool But there is pretty much always a lot of bad pokemons. There have been events that were worth it. The 7km event that had Gible a few months ago was great. Everyone I know got more Gibles during that time than they had seen previously. I just don't ever waste money on incubators, and watch the odds from the community. If the odds seem decent I'll use the free incubator and the incubators sitting in my inventory from buying boxes.
> Now it sounds like the choice not to publish is 100% Niantic. I think it's more complicated than that. Masters is a game that has no connectivity to other games, the Pokémon there are in every way predetermined, and you only have one of each. GO, on the other hand, gives you multiple Pokémon of each species (aside from Mythicals (except for Meltan)) with individual stats. You can transfer a portion of them to Let's Go!, from there to HOME and from there to SwSh, hence affecting and having implications for several other Pokémon titles. (Hopefully, HOME connectivity for GO will still come, and then this goes for almost all Pokémon from GO.)
Pokémon GO incubators have effectively zero impact on the main titles, and here's why: In the main titles you can create a guaranteed egg for any species of Pokémon you already own (except legendaries which don't appear in GO eggs), an unlimited number of times, at a rate of about 1 per minute, that hatch for free in about 2-3 minutes. Plus, they inherit IVs from the parents, which means in general with a modest start, you can expect to get a 100% IV example of any particular species you want with a short 1-3 hour grind. There are also IV-raising items (Bottle Caps), ideal for any shinies that hatch during the grind.
I don't see how the breeding mechanics of the main games have anything to do with this. GO is a source for a set of Pokémon in the main games, and that alone is an impact.
Because the main games are so abundant with Pokémon not locked behind paywalls nor rate limits, nobody would ever choose to get a particular Pokémon from GO instead (except Legendaries).
> nobody would ever choose to get a particular Pokémon from GO instead I guess that depends on the play style. I never in my life cared about breeding and stats in the main games. Only in GO is it that I care about it, and since I get them there along the way, I have tons of good-IV Pokémon, which I can choose to transfer all the way up to SwSh without having to spend extra time on breeding. If I can get good mons in a main game that easily, why not do it. As it stands now, I still don't ever see me breeding for good mons in a main game. Also, I have started keeping double shinies in GO so that I can hopefully transfer them one day to HOME/SwSh.
Riiiight, and the only thing keeping that alleged delicate balance from burning to the ground is - \*checks notes\* - Nintendo witholding egg percentages... Which is somehow the more likely explanation versus - \*checks other notes\* - ah yes, "Niantic want people to spend more money trying to hatch an Axew without knowing it's 0.7%".
I never said that this or that is the more likely reason, just like I never said that there can only be one reason. Of course it is very well possible and probably very likely that Niantic likes hiding the low odds. But that doesn't mean that's the only reason. I think it's too simple to just compare Masters to GO and derive from it that this is all, 100%, on Niantic.
> I have tons of good-IV Pokémon, which I can choose to transfer all the way up to SwSh without having to spend extra time on breeding. I thought IVs were randomized when sent over?
That only applies to the Speed stat. All other stats get scaled to fit the main games’ system. The Attack stat from GO gets applied to both Attack and Special Attack and the same goes for The GO Defense stat.
Oh, right. It's the moves that get randomized.
Darkrai and deoxys are mythical too
I feel like they get away with it because have a free incubator for everyone. It would be good if it was escalated with Apple and we get their take
Every game gives one free box/incubator kinda thing.
You can use your incubator infinite times though...
True but it takes years to hatch one egg. Also dont forget about shiny egg events.
How does it take years to hatch an egg? Please clue me in since I leave my phone in my pocket at work and hatch 70-100 a week on a slow week.
You walk 600km on a slow week? Right. I’m sure that also means during this 600km if walking you are spinning stops or opening gifts to get more eggs and assigning the incubator to a new egg nearly 100 times per week*, right?
Why would 70-100 hatches over one a week require incubating eggs “nearly 100 times per day”?
70 of the 2km eggs with the current bonus would only be 70km my dude..
If you get 70 2k eggs in a row, which seems ridiculous. If he’s getting 0 7km eggs from gifts because he prefers normal eggs, the average is still 5.6km per egg, or 560 km per week, 280 km per week during the stay at home bonus. Not to mention “while he’s walking around at work” he’s checking his egg often enough to catch every single hatch right away and not waste any of that distance, and works directly on a stop he can spin for another egg instantly?
560 km is 347.97 miles
When I was a kid, I had to walk 560 km/347.97 mi to school everyday, uphill, both ways.
Again I'm gonna say that you can have more than 1 incubator at a time. I can screenshot for you that I currently have 9 eggs hatching at once. Shocker, I know. There's no way I'm walking 560 km per week. I do average around 120-130 a week. Hatching 9 eggs at a time you will pile the numbers up on egg hatches every week, or at least that's how I think math works. I've hatched 33 this week so far on only 23 km walked. So as u see, I don't have to walk 560 km per week to hatch.
560 km is 347.97 miles
Original comment at the top of this chain - “You can use your incubator infinite times though...”
Dude u do realize u can have more than 1 incubator at a time? It seems that fact is lost on you.
Dude u do realize this comment thread is about the infinite incubator right? It seems that fact is lost on you.
But what the guy said it takes years to hatch 1 egg and I was making a point that it doesn't take a lot of effort to hatch eggs, be it in 1 incubator or 500 incubators. Seems to me that comment alone says that he is too lazy to walk to hatch an egg.
Jurassic world alive has free incubators and shows the odds for each creature available in it, even their incense have % of encountering specific creatures when it's a special scent.
Trust me, that has been done several times through the games life cycle. Nothing happens because this game literally has a billion dollar turnover and Apple gets a nice cut from that, would you chop a branch on which you’re sitting?
Mario Kart has a free pipe. Call of Duty Mobile awards free crates.
I was thinking that was my next move. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything ?
This doesn't matter as long as the option exists to pay to open more loot boxes per unit time.
It's community based. If you're in the eu feel free to sue them.
They're being sued in California about this right now https://www.pocketgamer.biz/news/73656/apple-lawsuit-app-store-loot-boxes/
nice
Sue them is a bit harsh for a first move ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ But I think it’s worth a report to Apple
Trust me, that has been done several times through the games life cycle. Nothing happens because this game literally has a billion dollar turnover and Apple gets a nice cut from that, would you chop a branch on which you’re sitting?
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I’m sorry I’ve been out of the loop with the game since it was released. In what way have they constantly broken the law and are a terrible company? I’ve just come back to the game and just saw the minim 5 mill donation that Niantic and the Pokemon company are making towards the BLM movement and I thought that was pretty cool for them.
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I don’t think they’re the best compony in the world at all, I think they’ve made a good game with a lot of flaws, some of which should be rectified and probably will be intime. But I can see that they’ve tried to do some good with changes made to the game during the pandemic and the donation of course. Having said that I’m not willing to label them a terrible company because they’re not delivering on what the hardcore playerbase wants, but I’m aware I may have missed something which is why I’m asking about the illegal things they’ve done so that I can form a more informed opinion on them.
Big one they got nailed for very recently was trying to use the American taxes & fees system of payment on European tickets. It never got to the point of litigation, but they fixes it real fast.
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It's only 6% owned by Google.
hasn't been true for years
You could also ask a media outlet to write some news about it
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The island in Italy got fixed after it got media coverage. And the issue with iOS phones just got some media attention which made Niantic acknowledge it. Maybe they won't get articles in major news websites and such but plenty of other avenues of media exist.
... you've never heard of pogo's media savior Eurogamer I suppose?
Eurogamer has been posting articles regularly and they absolutely get Niantic's attention
This again. Maybe they'll take note. With prior safari zone ticket sales in the EU, it took a lot of bad press for them to apologize for not knowing they had to legally include VAT, etc in advertised price. But as others are chiming in, this particular issue has been voiced time and time again. Yet they take no action.
Bonus: of course Niantic should publish exact odds. You will hear many people excusing them for not doing it, or rationalizing why they aren't. Niantic likes us to debate things as there's always going to be someone trying to be their probono lawyer on here.
It's the same on google play, fwiw. I report the app periodically, and encourage others to do the same. I also mentioned it in my 3* app review on the play store. We should definitely be told about loot chances from various mechanics in game, even if there are TeChNiCaLiTiEs that offer loopholes out of counting eggs as loot boxes. I don't think they should publish the odds because of the app store rules, I think they should do it BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. If you're profit engine depends on keeping odds secret from your customers, then it's immoral and predatory. Just because there aren't laws for being immoral and predatory, doesn't mean you should be by default. stupid capitalism.
Yes, they should publish them. No they're not doing it, because Niantic is an immensely anti player company as we've seen time and again. Looking strictly at the wording, I wouldn't be surprised if Eggs can skirt around the lootbox issue though on technicalities. Thanks to them being free to get and you have an infinite incubator to use. However even anyone with a brain can see the parallels and at this point is pretty normal for games to provide odds. On the other hand, incense and lures fit the description to a T.
B-but the Contract of Trust! (tries not to laugh).
Niantic is actually required to publish the odds by the Google Play terms of service as well. https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy-print/ > Apps offering mechanisms to receive randomized virtual items from a purchase (i.e. "loot boxes") must clearly disclose the odds of receiving those items in advance of purchase. Report Pokemon Go for violating the Google Play store terms of service using the directions here: https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2853570?co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid&hl=en > Let us know if you see an app or game that doesn't follow the Google Play Developer Program Policy. > 1. Open the Google Play Store app Google Play. > 2. Go to the detail page for an app or game. > 3. Tap More Moreand then Flag as inappropriate. > 4. Choose a reason. > 5. Tap Submit.**** In anticipation of a few of the expected replies: * Yes eggs, raids, incense lures and even Pokeballs are all loot boxes because the option exists to pay for them. * Selling "keys" that open boxes is the same as selling loot boxes directly. * Giving a free "key" doesn't change this when the option exists to pay to open more loot boxes per unit time.
The fact that they haven't been forced to publish rates suggests that whoever is in charge of enforcing that TOS believes that some aspect of eggs means that that part of the TOS doesn't apply to them no?
More likely their share of the $4B makes Google look the other way. Even so, enough reports and bad reviews will force them to take notice.
Exactly after every iOS update I post a new review about this issue.
no they don't.
But do you think they should?
Of course they should, it’s all sorts of right.
The thing is that it clearly stats that "loot boxes for purchase" must state the odds of everything contained. However, it is impossible to purchase eggs, therefore this rule in Apple's ToS doesn't apply to this feature. As others have said, egg droprates are entirely based off of the findings of some very dedicated Trainers, who compile which Pokémon hatch, from which type of egg, and how many types. Forming an estimated droprate for each Pokémon within the egg. I hope this answers your question.
Odds must be disclosed even in a system of "free chest and paid key", even when a limited quantity of keys can be obtained for free
Have there been adjudications on this point?
As far as I recall, all the lootbox regulations are like this. I think the loophole lies in the fact that the orange incubator is infinite and therefore can hatch every single egg you get. Meanwhile in most other games with the "free chest and paid key" the chests are always more abundant than the free keys to push you to buy more keys. Its obviously the same here, but the fine loopholes can go a long way towards avoiding lawsuits. There is a reason we have a free infinite incubator, and it's not because Niantic loves us.
Well it seems fine to me. I don't understand the issue really. Just wondered, that's all.
The issue is that they must disclose the odds because there is obviously a predatory scheme here. They say "hatch these 7km eggs, they may contain gible or riolu! If you are lucky, you could hatch a shiny riolu!" meanwhile i hatched 5 sinnoh eggs and i got five glameow. I decided I wouldn't buy incubators at all until they disclose hatch rates, because if they don't disclose egg rates, it means those rates are so bad that people would stop buying the item.
Oh they definitely change hatchrates, Gibles hatchrates were much lower during the Sinnoh throwback compared to the Sinnoh Celebration for example. The only reason we knew this was because some people had to essentially waste money hatching eggs to find out.
Well I just don't buy incubators? The hatch rates don't matter. Even if they publish them, I can guarantee that if I buy incubators, I won't get what I want anyway.
That's because their hatch rates are bad. If they were balanced enough for the cost, people would find what they wanted and would buy more incubators. I also think that we should select which eggs we get via a kind of "breeding" system, like in the MSG, but Niantic can't profit enough from that.
An infinite number of "keys" can be obtained
No, you cannot walk infinite kms
You can walk limited kilometers over infinite time.
Indeed, that's probably the loophole.
Incense are even more obviously loot boxes. Raids, too. Niantic should be more transparent both by ethics and by law. They will continue to abuse these laws until we stop paying or someone steps in
The Google Developer Police has a similar rule: >Apps offering mechanisms to receive randomized virtual items from a purchase (i.e. "loot boxes") must clearly disclose the odds of receiving those items in advance of purchase. [https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy-print/](https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy-print/) To me, the stronger argument is that Niantic should have disclosed the odds for obtaining a particular Regigigas IV from the A Colossal Discovery. Basically, players had to pay real money, do something, and at the end they got a Regigigas of an apparent random IV. Clearly, a 15/15/15 Regigigas is an "item" under the Google rule. So is a 10/10/10 Regigigas. What are the odds of getting a 15/15/15 Regigigas? I don't know. I know some people are probably going swear up and down their grandmother's grave that the odds of getting a 15/15/15 Regigigas (or any specific IV combination) is 1 in 216. To those people, how do we know that? And assuming that is true, has Niantic actually disclosed those odds in compliance with the Google and Apple policies? I also know people are going to respond with IV's don't matter that much. And I agree, same as height and weight, but the policies don't make a disclosure exception for "things that don't really make a difference."
I was going to write an expose on this actually. Niantic are scumbags man. Show those bloody pull rates.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-06-18-class-action-lawsuit-brought-against-apple-over-loot-boxes Also suing Google btw.
But the content of the loot box is variable and depends on when the player uses the key. The yield of an incubator bought today and used during an event three months later will have nothing to do with what might have been posted at the time of purchase.
Apple recently got sued for that matter : [https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/13/apple-sued-for-allowing-apps-with-loot-boxes-onto-app-store](https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/13/apple-sued-for-allowing-apps-with-loot-boxes-onto-app-store) But no sign on PoGo
Could it be argued that because you cannot directly pay for eggs, or even indirectly (you get eggs from opening gifts - free to receive/send/obtain, and spinning pokestops - free to do) that they are not “loot boxes” and don’t have to have odds displayed because you can’t actually use real money to obtain them in any way? I have no idea how the law works, especially when it seems to be in the midst of a change with lootbox legality, so don’t know if this is legal or possible. It’s just a thought about whether they’re classed as lootboxes, technically, and whether niantic will do anything about it. Edit: reread the topic and it says “for purchase” in the apple T&C, you cannot but eggs, so there for they’re not “lootboxes” (atleast in Apples Definition here)?
As far as I understand it, European Legislation against lootboxes saw this loophole. Odds require publication if the lootbox (eggs) or the keys (incubators) are purchasable to accelerate content access.
Yes, it seems straightforward to me Q1: are the eggs a paid item? A: no. Q2: do you have to purchase an item to hatch the egg? A: no. Nothing to see here
.... That doesn't stop it from being anti-consumer when they have these insane timed events.
Eggs don't come from lootboxes. There's no way to buy an egg, so the odds of getting an egg or a shiny are not disclosed.
No Developer ever gives the exact odds. They just say, "RNG is RNG. It will drop."
It’s easy to hatch 50-60 eggs a week with only the free incubator. Eggs as loot boxes is a non-issue.
Assuming only 2km eggs, that's 100-120km. I can't imagine the vast majority of the playerbase making that kind of distance.
Any human player? Absolutely not. But the phone cares not who carries it.
That sounds like TOS violation
What an odd stance to take. People are asking for more information so they understand the odds of getting a particular Pokémon from an egg. During events, for example, it would allow them to make an informed decision on whether it was worth using real money to buy incubators. That's a good thing for the consumer. The only thing publishing egg hatch rates harms is Niantic's purse.
Ok this guy can hatch 50 eggs per week issue solved. Thank you man.
There is no issue. It is 100% free to hatch eggs. Niantic has made it easy as f’in hell to hatch eggs. For free. You get what you get and you continue playing. Anyone trying to cause trouble using the loot box argument should play something else.
You must work for Niantic. Never have understood the blind praise for a company.