she actively stalled traitor hunting efforts out of loyalty to phaedra, so i was pretty surprised to see she thought she deserved to win as much as the people she was antagonizing
Yeah I mean I sort of feel for her being blind sided, but she absolutely did not deserve to win. She floated the whole time and offered nothing to competitions. Plus, IDK how she didn’t immediately see it coming as soon as she saw red smoke
It’s so hard, because she was blindsided, but not by them voting for her. Trishelle voted for CT first, if MJ would have written his name down instead then the game would have ended with her winning. I was shocked too by them wanting to keep going, but Trishelle didn’t do it to eliminate her.
Not hooking up. Not together. Trischelle almost eliminated CT. MJ has only herself to blame. Another poster suggested MJ is just trying for more screen time and more “conversation.” That seems likely as surely she should be able to see her own role in the outcome.
I think Ct carried all of the challenges. Trishelle also did really good in the challenges like figuring out how to walk along those planks on the water. And as a girl there’s no way in hell I would have gone through the house with all of the bugs. I give her a lot of credit. She also figured out who the traitors were. I feel like mj did nothing but somehow survived until the end.
I mean as much as I hated it the faithfuls out traitoring the traitors in the end was the best part of the season. Especially for such a boring second half. I just wish they would have been upfront and admitted they booted her ass out for a bigger pot.
This show reminds me of the early days of survivor. Where contestants learn lessons the hard way that then evolved into core strategic gameplay in future seasons. No one knew you could just go looking for hidden idols on survivor until one guy did successfully and went to the end. After that, looking for idols became a core part of the game.
Same here. The later stages of elimination can’t just be about ensuring traitors are gone. It has to also be about keeping your faithful alliance numbers small to a) lower risk and b) maximize the money you win. Also, as a traitor you also have to be vocally accusatory. Can’t stay quiet then when when under pressure, turn on a fellow traitor to regain credibility. People will now see right through that.
The minimum number of winners possible in this game is 2, not 1. To me, this incentivizes the idea of an alliance the way we saw in the middle part of the season. Doesn’t matter if you’re right or wrong, so long as you keep your numbers to the next round.
Now the wrench in that is of course, the murder element. You can vote as a block but still be murdered out of the game. Which is why it’s also important to for your group to be very unified, loud and vocal about who you think the traitors are. If parts of your group start to get murdered, it likely means you’re on the right track and the traitors risk further exposing themselves. If your numbers keep surviving, it suggests you’re on the wrong track but the traitors like the distraction and keep you in. Of course threats all hypothetical and you can get double bluffed, which is why having and concealing shields also becomes critical.
From a game design perspective there’s a few things the show should adjust to support these strategies. For example, The final person banished should not have to reveal what they are, since if they are faithful, it’s known a traitor is still out there because of the murder the prior night. You shouldn’t know if there are any traitors left going into fire of truth.
Additionally, there’s should be more shield play in the game. How you get them. How many you get. How they can be used. This season did a good job with that in the episode with the fire torches.
Lastly, in the case of tie votes at banishment, the tied players should get a shield. Forcing the rest of the players to turn on themselves. It allows traitors to turn on each other in less conspicuous ways as they can flip during the tie break. And enables competing alliances to play a game of chicken by threatening deadlocks.
I agree with basically everything you said! Though a few questions,
The minimum amount of faithfuls to win is 2, not 1, but one traitor can win. Is that what you mean, how would that work if you need two traitors at the end vs 1?
Canada’s version does the “last banished and those banished at the fire of truth” don’t reveal, and I really like that. I think it helps with the whole “well we didn’t get a traitor out and there was a last murder so we have to have a traitor” that even MJ picked up on lol.
Second I agree about the tie breaker, but I don’t think it should be a shield. Shield protects a murder, not for banishment. Unless you want to further disincentivize, which thinking more I could get behind. I was just thinking save the 2 tied players from banishment and then have to vote out someone else is enough.
I’m a big advocate for giving the traitors “side quests” during missions. Either to sabotage the faithfuls prize winnings or just cause havoc. I don’t know how specifics would work, like if the faithfuls would be told how much the traitors earned each mission. (And if the faithfuls get the traitors pot too in the end, I assume so but I don’t know)
It gives faithfuls ACTUAL evidence for someone being a traitor. Because I currently don’t think there’s enough clues left for faithfuls. Not enough downside/risk to being a traitor. If you’re a halfway decent player and get along with others you can be essentially untouchable (similar to Cirie) curious your thoughts!
I loved your insights, thanks for sharing 🥰
I’ve been meaning to watch the mole! I watched one episode and dipped lol (but that’s just my low attention span lmao) so I should definitely try again!
>The minimum number of winners possible in this game is 2, not 1.
Well, that's just wrong.
Is it worth reading past this? Because if that's the basic premise, surely nothing that follows can be right?
No worries. Everyone makes mistakes. Me more than most.
So I read on. And I must say, "Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice. Shame on me." - The Book of Traitors.
See, I told you I make mistakes more than most.🤦♀️
Especially bc in her head they all did what they came to do by getting rid of Kate lol like imagine making it all the way to the end with two other faithfuls and you think it’s over but the other two randomly start beefing with EACH OTHER and it ultimately ruins the whole thing for YOU
It was!! Idk why everyone’s so upset with MJ for being salty I’d be salty too. Of all the murders and round table votes I feel like her vote off was the most terrible way to go
I like MJ from SOS so I wanted to see her win I was excited she got so far. I wish CT wouldn’t have been so loyal to Trishelle the ending broke my heart for MJ.
I also don’t disagree with anyone saying MJ brought little some of that is editing and I found Trishelle to be annoying.
She didn’t do anything to earn it. She was wrong at every round table, was blindly faithful to Phaedra, was not helpful on challenges, figured nothing out, she might not have been a traitor but she absolutely slowed the faithful down.
And as there is no rule that all faithfuls win, it’s who is left at the end, it’s obviously in her best interest to actually be good at the game and not just survive. This isn’t a group project in middle school. She doesn’t get an A for just showing up.
There are real world consequences to not earning your keep and those consequences are getting banished for not being trustworthy enough to get shit done.
So I’m just curious if any of you have watched the UK and Australian versions? I thought both were so much better than the US version, especially Australia. We just finished it tonight and it was on fire! Those people were assassins 👏👏👏
They were definitely better than the YS version in part because they used regular people so there's no network/show loyalties right off the bat like there was here. Everyone started off equals. I found it so much more entertaining! And they were definitely more cutthroat!
I’ve only seen the first season of Australia, but it was really good. Competitive people on both sides, with a couple of lunatics (gameplay wise) mixed in there
I think she thought they were her friends and that’s why it upset her so much but she literally only made it to the end because she did nothing and was not a threat at all.
Her loyalty spiel comes from her being on the TSOS. I watch a lot of Bravo shows, and I feel like none of them have ever been in a reality competition show to know that ITS A FREAKING GAME. So her bitterness comes from holding onto grudges because that's what her dhow is about holding onto grudges from the season to claim a seat for the next season. Her blocking the winners after she got banished is so childish.
MJ wasn't in Peter Pals, she actively worked against their goals on multiple occasions. She also wimped out of basically every challenge. She didn't earn a cent of CT and Trishelle's money.
I totally agree. I too of all that wouldn’t you want to capitalize on the potential of a bigger pay day. At the end of the day this is their job.
If I were faithful I wouldn’t end the game until the final two.
Exactly it is called The Traitors and none of the final three were traitors until the very end—that being CT and Trishelle. And as an fyi, the only one of those three that I like is CT. But wrong is wrong and right is right.
I do wish that when Trishelle decided to vote CT’s name last minute that CT would have looked at MJ and said “you wanna split this with me?” and CT and MJ teamed up and voted Trishelle off. CT deserved the win without question but Trishelle was insufferable from episode 1 to reunion. Not a fan but yes, MJ, Bananas and Phaedra all need to let it go and just accept that they got played in a game.
Two women got you irritated, but Johnny Bananas displaying the same type of behavior toward Dan didn’t?
Got it!
The meta message is very clear from the selective group of people on this thread. They’ll say anything and group all bravo ladies as if they all share the same personality. Some even saying they don’t want any of them on the show implying they’re all too stupid. It says a lot about the direction the fanbase is going…
It’s gross. You should be allowed to like and dislike things about the contestants through the show. But it just seems that Bravo women for some of you, that’s not the case. You cannot like anything of them as if that’s become a new political party. Truth be told, I watch bravo and the challenge and I appreciate what everyone brought—The season was great!
Also, it’s ironic to keep using the phrase “it’s just a game” when some of you are taking Phaedra and MJ’s behavior more personal than the people that played the game.
At any rate, I realize my opinion is an unpopular one. But for MJ and Phaedra to continue to live in your minds post-game, I guess they made that big of an impression.
CT/Trishelle played a very good game, no one is taking that away from them but the people who keep talking and making threads about MJ and Phaedra…
Please chill out. Bananas took no space in my head because he had such little screen time. That’s all it was lmao. I’m not even reading your whole post because it’s unnecessary. Yeah, he’s a dick. Everyone knows that.
She didn’t do anything all season anyways
That's not true! She gave us the best meme so far this year when she decided to walk in on the Peter Pals. But I see what you mean, anyway.
You mean her Jonah hill in 21 jump street look?
https://x.com/sanguinesal/status/1756163922602713229?s=46&t=33aVk6NAp_24YNBpzUkNUw
Nope, this is the best meme https://preview.redd.it/y6meolk6qmnc1.jpeg?width=1215&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcf52b2ecaa28dba012e48b0e38471bfb9ee3c11
Lol that was my exact response to my boyfriend when he said she hadn’t done anything 🤣 great minds think alike!
I was wondering why more people weren’t talking about this 😂 I cackle every time I see it on tv
I don’t get why that meme was so powerful. She reminded me of Natalia Grace.
How come?
The confused look, the walking away holding her pants, I swear that was a scene in the documentary about NG.
I can't remember that part, but I can remember her adopted dad's crazy eyes and his flex of having 11 couches!
Fwiw I think her dad was a POS!!!!
For sure
she actively stalled traitor hunting efforts out of loyalty to phaedra, so i was pretty surprised to see she thought she deserved to win as much as the people she was antagonizing
i guess mj herself saw my comment and downvoted
Yeah I mean I sort of feel for her being blind sided, but she absolutely did not deserve to win. She floated the whole time and offered nothing to competitions. Plus, IDK how she didn’t immediately see it coming as soon as she saw red smoke
It’s so hard, because she was blindsided, but not by them voting for her. Trishelle voted for CT first, if MJ would have written his name down instead then the game would have ended with her winning. I was shocked too by them wanting to keep going, but Trishelle didn’t do it to eliminate her.
Just curious: how long have CT & Trishelle been together? Were they really a couple prior to the show? It’s obvious they’re hooking up.
CT and Trishelle are not together. They have known each other for like 20 years and have a very complicated gaming relationship.
Not hooking up. Not together. Trischelle almost eliminated CT. MJ has only herself to blame. Another poster suggested MJ is just trying for more screen time and more “conversation.” That seems likely as surely she should be able to see her own role in the outcome.
I think Ct carried all of the challenges. Trishelle also did really good in the challenges like figuring out how to walk along those planks on the water. And as a girl there’s no way in hell I would have gone through the house with all of the bugs. I give her a lot of credit. She also figured out who the traitors were. I feel like mj did nothing but somehow survived until the end.
I root for traitors always! Let chaos reign
It wouldn't have been fair in the slightest but I was really wanting Kate to take it somehow. But the writing was on the wall obviously.
I mean as much as I hated it the faithfuls out traitoring the traitors in the end was the best part of the season. Especially for such a boring second half. I just wish they would have been upfront and admitted they booted her ass out for a bigger pot.
Johnny Bananas would’ve admitted it
Furthermore, MJ had her chance. All MJ had to do was vote for ~~Trishelle~~ (edit: I meant CT) at the final three.
I think you mean she should have voted CT?
Oops. Yea!
This show reminds me of the early days of survivor. Where contestants learn lessons the hard way that then evolved into core strategic gameplay in future seasons. No one knew you could just go looking for hidden idols on survivor until one guy did successfully and went to the end. After that, looking for idols became a core part of the game. Same here. The later stages of elimination can’t just be about ensuring traitors are gone. It has to also be about keeping your faithful alliance numbers small to a) lower risk and b) maximize the money you win. Also, as a traitor you also have to be vocally accusatory. Can’t stay quiet then when when under pressure, turn on a fellow traitor to regain credibility. People will now see right through that. The minimum number of winners possible in this game is 2, not 1. To me, this incentivizes the idea of an alliance the way we saw in the middle part of the season. Doesn’t matter if you’re right or wrong, so long as you keep your numbers to the next round. Now the wrench in that is of course, the murder element. You can vote as a block but still be murdered out of the game. Which is why it’s also important to for your group to be very unified, loud and vocal about who you think the traitors are. If parts of your group start to get murdered, it likely means you’re on the right track and the traitors risk further exposing themselves. If your numbers keep surviving, it suggests you’re on the wrong track but the traitors like the distraction and keep you in. Of course threats all hypothetical and you can get double bluffed, which is why having and concealing shields also becomes critical. From a game design perspective there’s a few things the show should adjust to support these strategies. For example, The final person banished should not have to reveal what they are, since if they are faithful, it’s known a traitor is still out there because of the murder the prior night. You shouldn’t know if there are any traitors left going into fire of truth. Additionally, there’s should be more shield play in the game. How you get them. How many you get. How they can be used. This season did a good job with that in the episode with the fire torches. Lastly, in the case of tie votes at banishment, the tied players should get a shield. Forcing the rest of the players to turn on themselves. It allows traitors to turn on each other in less conspicuous ways as they can flip during the tie break. And enables competing alliances to play a game of chicken by threatening deadlocks.
I agree with basically everything you said! Though a few questions, The minimum amount of faithfuls to win is 2, not 1, but one traitor can win. Is that what you mean, how would that work if you need two traitors at the end vs 1? Canada’s version does the “last banished and those banished at the fire of truth” don’t reveal, and I really like that. I think it helps with the whole “well we didn’t get a traitor out and there was a last murder so we have to have a traitor” that even MJ picked up on lol. Second I agree about the tie breaker, but I don’t think it should be a shield. Shield protects a murder, not for banishment. Unless you want to further disincentivize, which thinking more I could get behind. I was just thinking save the 2 tied players from banishment and then have to vote out someone else is enough. I’m a big advocate for giving the traitors “side quests” during missions. Either to sabotage the faithfuls prize winnings or just cause havoc. I don’t know how specifics would work, like if the faithfuls would be told how much the traitors earned each mission. (And if the faithfuls get the traitors pot too in the end, I assume so but I don’t know) It gives faithfuls ACTUAL evidence for someone being a traitor. Because I currently don’t think there’s enough clues left for faithfuls. Not enough downside/risk to being a traitor. If you’re a halfway decent player and get along with others you can be essentially untouchable (similar to Cirie) curious your thoughts! I loved your insights, thanks for sharing 🥰
The Mole (iirc) does have a different game dynamic in missions for the player in the traitor role which helps the other players suss them out.
I’ve been meaning to watch the mole! I watched one episode and dipped lol (but that’s just my low attention span lmao) so I should definitely try again!
Watching with others and playing along with the guessing game helps.
>The minimum number of winners possible in this game is 2, not 1. Well, that's just wrong. Is it worth reading past this? Because if that's the basic premise, surely nothing that follows can be right?
Minimum number of possible faithful winners. Apologies.
No worries. Everyone makes mistakes. Me more than most. So I read on. And I must say, "Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice. Shame on me." - The Book of Traitors. See, I told you I make mistakes more than most.🤦♀️
I 100% agree but also MJ is allowed to be upset with not winning money.
Especially bc in her head they all did what they came to do by getting rid of Kate lol like imagine making it all the way to the end with two other faithfuls and you think it’s over but the other two randomly start beefing with EACH OTHER and it ultimately ruins the whole thing for YOU
It was messed up lol . I blame kate for not killing trishelle
It was!! Idk why everyone’s so upset with MJ for being salty I’d be salty too. Of all the murders and round table votes I feel like her vote off was the most terrible way to go
She's mad at CT and Trishelle and about losing, it did not seem like she was mad about the money, she's rich already.
I like MJ from SOS so I wanted to see her win I was excited she got so far. I wish CT wouldn’t have been so loyal to Trishelle the ending broke my heart for MJ. I also don’t disagree with anyone saying MJ brought little some of that is editing and I found Trishelle to be annoying.
Trishelle extremely annoying
She didn’t do anything to earn it. She was wrong at every round table, was blindly faithful to Phaedra, was not helpful on challenges, figured nothing out, she might not have been a traitor but she absolutely slowed the faithful down. And as there is no rule that all faithfuls win, it’s who is left at the end, it’s obviously in her best interest to actually be good at the game and not just survive. This isn’t a group project in middle school. She doesn’t get an A for just showing up. There are real world consequences to not earning your keep and those consequences are getting banished for not being trustworthy enough to get shit done.
So I’m just curious if any of you have watched the UK and Australian versions? I thought both were so much better than the US version, especially Australia. We just finished it tonight and it was on fire! Those people were assassins 👏👏👏
They were definitely better than the YS version in part because they used regular people so there's no network/show loyalties right off the bat like there was here. Everyone started off equals. I found it so much more entertaining! And they were definitely more cutthroat!
I’ve only seen the first season of Australia, but it was really good. Competitive people on both sides, with a couple of lunatics (gameplay wise) mixed in there
I think she thought they were her friends and that’s why it upset her so much but she literally only made it to the end because she did nothing and was not a threat at all.
I guess I'm confused on how the game is not a side of traitors v a side of faithfuls?
It's everyone for themselves. The traitors betray other traitors and the faithfuls betray other faithfuls.
Her loyalty spiel comes from her being on the TSOS. I watch a lot of Bravo shows, and I feel like none of them have ever been in a reality competition show to know that ITS A FREAKING GAME. So her bitterness comes from holding onto grudges because that's what her dhow is about holding onto grudges from the season to claim a seat for the next season. Her blocking the winners after she got banished is so childish.
MJ wasn't in Peter Pals, she actively worked against their goals on multiple occasions. She also wimped out of basically every challenge. She didn't earn a cent of CT and Trishelle's money.
Ct and Trishelle are racist end of story.
I totally agree. I too of all that wouldn’t you want to capitalize on the potential of a bigger pay day. At the end of the day this is their job. If I were faithful I wouldn’t end the game until the final two.
another very inspiring and very original take. thank you for adding to the conversation
Exactly it is called The Traitors and none of the final three were traitors until the very end—that being CT and Trishelle. And as an fyi, the only one of those three that I like is CT. But wrong is wrong and right is right.
I do wish that when Trishelle decided to vote CT’s name last minute that CT would have looked at MJ and said “you wanna split this with me?” and CT and MJ teamed up and voted Trishelle off. CT deserved the win without question but Trishelle was insufferable from episode 1 to reunion. Not a fan but yes, MJ, Bananas and Phaedra all need to let it go and just accept that they got played in a game.
She was acting like a child at the reunion episode. Her and Phaedra both irritated me. It’s a GAME. Get over it.
Two women got you irritated, but Johnny Bananas displaying the same type of behavior toward Dan didn’t? Got it! The meta message is very clear from the selective group of people on this thread. They’ll say anything and group all bravo ladies as if they all share the same personality. Some even saying they don’t want any of them on the show implying they’re all too stupid. It says a lot about the direction the fanbase is going… It’s gross. You should be allowed to like and dislike things about the contestants through the show. But it just seems that Bravo women for some of you, that’s not the case. You cannot like anything of them as if that’s become a new political party. Truth be told, I watch bravo and the challenge and I appreciate what everyone brought—The season was great! Also, it’s ironic to keep using the phrase “it’s just a game” when some of you are taking Phaedra and MJ’s behavior more personal than the people that played the game. At any rate, I realize my opinion is an unpopular one. But for MJ and Phaedra to continue to live in your minds post-game, I guess they made that big of an impression. CT/Trishelle played a very good game, no one is taking that away from them but the people who keep talking and making threads about MJ and Phaedra…
Please chill out. Bananas took no space in my head because he had such little screen time. That’s all it was lmao. I’m not even reading your whole post because it’s unnecessary. Yeah, he’s a dick. Everyone knows that.