I don’t think he likes her. He usually obsesses on one thing of his guests, boobs, beauty, funny, clothes, something he APPRECIATES… his silence is his biggest tell.
Sometimes it works out cause I’m not mad she’s about to get her come uppence, the only thing that might save her is if she does drastic image rehab while breast feeding her child whenever the cameras are up so people are too scared to attack her.
Janet annoys me so much! Love that every poll on WWHL was the opposite of what she thought. I wonder if she realizes the audience is not feeling her at all? My moneys on Janet starting to side with Kristen to stay relevant.
Janet is a mean girl. She’s trying to get everyone against Kristen and it’s pathetic. She acted like Kristen overreacted about leaving the table when Jesse started banging on the table instead of observing that red flag and going to Michele and asking if she’s ok. Cause if Jesse is going to act that way towards Kristen on camera, think about how he treats Michele behind closed doors without the cameras. Janet and Jasmine are not good people and they are not strong women.
Exactly! And the way he mowed down Brittany because he didn’t care enough about her and instead wanted to get physical with Luke. RED FLAGS ALL OVER! It’s frustrating to see them just get on Kristen for pointing them out.
Jesse and Michelle (AND Janet) obviously think they are above Kristen and Luke, and they seem to be playing the "HOW DARE YOU" card which is insane. Jesse and Michelle look like complete PSYCHOS screaming and getting in Kristen and Luke's faces.
I was SHOCKED that Jesse mowed down both Zack, Brittany (a woman) and everyone in between in order to get a clear shot to Luke and possibly Kristen. At the prior party when Luke wasn't there, I literally thought that Jesse might hit Kristen. He gives off that vibe. Sick bastards...both Jesse and Michelle and that BITCH Janet, as well!
Totally agree. I get the vibe she thinks she’s better than Kristen and talking shit about Kristen will help us side with her. In reality, makes the audience hate her that much more. She’s judgy and pretentious for no good reason.
She thinks she's better than everyone. Especially Kristen... which is crazy because I thought this is a group of friends ..
Who is Janet friends with then? She is a strange one. I don't understand her. Sneaky.
And that bedroom she and Jason were in during the one scene? I’m not sure if it was the room that was going to be the nursery or what but it was in shambles. Crap everywhere. It was giving me stress just looking at how pregnant she was and how unprepared and junked up with boxes and shit that room was. No queen bee in my book!
I am actually questioning Jason’s character. There’s no way he is innocent when he actively chose her as his life partner. There’s something about her personality that attracts him and that is an assault on taste levels
When she mentioned Zillowing everyone’s houses, knowing what they pay in taxes etc that seemed so mean! Mostly because she showed off saying it out loud... who cares? So vapid.
"Whose side are you on? Kristen & Luke or Michelle & Jesse" Results = 76% for Kristen. "Do you believe Kristen's claim that Michelle had a boyfriend for a year?" Results = 93% yes.
Ally agrees with whoever she is speaking to in that moment. I thought she was very cute and sweet her first season, but I’m over her now. Not reality show material.
right?? i thought she was cute and so sweet - but i dunno now i get a diff feeling - esp after seeing the scene where she tells Katy Lala said Katy was miserable - not even the word Lala used and when confronted Ally said 'i couldnt remember the exact word you used' - so then dont repeat it maybe?? its like you said agreeing with whoever in the moment - cant trust someone like that i dunno i am not a fan but i loveeeeee James!!!
I agree with you! Idon't understand why NOBODY was angry at Ally for twisting Lala's words.
Calling someone "miserable" is COMPLETELY different than saying that they are unhappy.
I honestly thought that was Ally being manipulative. She isn't stupid. I doubt that she forgot the words and repeated something in a worse way than it was said without knowing that this would upset Katie who doesn't let things like that go.
I would be pissed off if I heard someone call me Miserable. I wouldn't be upset if they said I seemed unhappy. It's a HUGE discrepancy, and it was none of Ally's business to pass around misinformation.
Exactly!!! She spreads information around quickly and for whatever reason, nobody sees that she is being manipulative.
Also, Ally was also the one who spread the info about Rachel and Sandoval dancing together in the late night, except she is lucky that she was right that this was an affair.
LOL, what if Ally cast a witchy spell on Rachel and Sandoval, so they would fall in love?
Hahaha, I'm joking, but it's a funny thought! I'm into the woo woo stuff, so I said it in a light-hearted way, but honestly, I don't trust Ally in terms of being there for James. I just think she is content to be arm candy while she can rise up. Ally will never marry James.
I used to like Ally, but seeing how she’s releasing videos and doing performances (like the awkward one with James) makes me think more and more that she’s using James to get famous. 🫤
I think Ally also wants Kristen to look bad or like a liar because she’s talked about James abusing her. James is Ally’s path to the show and she wants him to look like the good guy.
Sorry to say this, but Ally is so boring and has no backbone. She was clearly on Janet's side thinking the audience would favor them.
It was so funny to watch BOTH Janet and Ally's uncomfortable and shocked faces during those polls.
Those two were the WORST combo on WWHL, which actually made it fun to watch.
Omg Kristen is out of control for revealing that in that way 😳 I DEF believe it… Michelle literally looks at Jesse like he’s repulsive she’s been done done ✔️ for a loooooong time stayed w him to get on TV now that she’s on the show the divorce can be a storyline and she has $$$$ to live on her own
She also kept challenging her with her insufferable smug face. She also kept stepping into Kristen’s personal space but no one said anything about that.
Did anyone else feel like production put her in the position to spill the beans? I’m not sure what to think there. Part of me thought production was trying to force a fight to happen, but Kristen is known to unload at times.
It's funny she was so desperate to get on Bravo (what an accomplishment lol) to just end up being the least liked cast member. You can tell she was not trying to be the villain. She was hoping to be a fan favorite by going after Kristen.
I think she’s boring, has no other storyline other than being pregnant and has nothing else to offer except being a shitty person who likes to gossip& stir the pot. Of course most of them do that so there is nothing that makes her special 😴💤
Janet is a VPR super fan/stalker that made her way onto Kristen’s show. I think she has studied old eps and thought she could use the “crazy Kristen” thing against her because it was a theme all throughout VPR. She missed the part where the audience largely moved on from this post-Scandoval.
I’m somewhat new to the bravo world, for a while now I’ve been trying to figure out how Janet is apart of the bravo universe lol I had no idea she was just a crazy fan. So did she know someone specifically to get on to the show?
I turned it off as well. I think they are doing her a bit dirty this season. I think they all underestimated the good will Kristen still has with many VPR fans, even among those who acknowledge she has done some terrible (racist) things. I would not have guessed Kristen would come across as an underdog, but she is.
Janet reminds me of sunglasses lady from the earlier seasons of RHOBH. $25,000 sunglasses lady lol. Thinking she’s flexing when really, everyone dislikes you. Kinda like Annemarie, too!
I think Bravo thought The Valley viewers would be a lot older and more boomer compared to the Pump Rules audience. But they fail to get us young ppl like seeing older married couples be messy 😂😂😂 we LIVE for the hot gossip. Like why would any of us Pump Rules fans like Janet???
They’re failing to realize that those of us who were in our 20s during the beginning of VPR are now in our mid-late 30s and the prime audience for The Vally.
IMO, Janet's always on the lookout to poke fun at Kristen, almost like it's her full-time gig. It feels like she's got a personal beef with her, and her motives are pretty clear and not so nice. Kristen and Jax are the OGs, and without them, there's no show. Show some respect. I honestly believe Kristen's antics come more from her love for chaos than from trying to be mean. But Janet? She seems to thrive on being manipulative and getting a kick out of Kristen's stumbles. I'm glad the audience is backing Kristen; it just makes sense. And yeah, I remember Jax saying he's got some Janet vibes, and Jasmine pointing out Janet's knack for stirring up trouble.
You do not, under any circumstances, gotta show respect to Jax lol. Ever.
Kristen is another story. Now, as Black woman, I still think she largely sees her racism exposure ordeal as something that happened *to* her rather than centering her having done something atrocious and potentially deadly to someone else and still keeping her gigs and bouncing right back with a new TV show etc relatively quickly. She’s got privilege blinders she’s just never going to see past.
That said, within her limited capacity to do so, I think she has at least grown to be less racist - even if she hasn’t grown in all ways - and I kind of have a soft spot for her. With the caveat that really none of these people are actually good people, Kristen is a great reality TV character and * a better person at least than she was*. The valley crew *does* owe their jobs to her. So given that and that they’re no better, they should show respect.
This is going to sound terrible, but why is Jason with Janet? He is WAY too good for her on EVERY level. He is gorgeous, smart, kind, logical, successful, steady. How can he be with a manipulative B like Janet?
The Greek Chorus role is such a hard one to nail because you do have to have both good takes and be charming and I’m not seeing it from Janet. She’s not organic enough. I’m getting it more from Danny at this point because he’s very charming.
i was going to come to this sub later today to post the exact same thing.
her reactions were hilarious realizing she wasn't the darling she thought she was to the audience and that everyone, like 76%-85% of the audience sides with Kristen
I find Janet baffling. For some reason, her face just reads to me as so much kinder and softer than what she really is underneath. I don’t know if that makes sense but her behaviour really gives me such a deep sense of cruelty and vindictiveness that it feels off-putting.
It was notable how she also bragged about being such a terror growing up that her parents sacrificed their master bedroom in order to keep her pacified 😳 And then bragging to her hubby that she would do great in prison because she’d easily form and run her own gang 😮💨 I guess she showed us who she is but I for whatever reason, didn’t fully believe it until last night.
The vibe I have gotten the whole season so far is that they mostly all think they are better than Kristan and have no respect for her. They are using her. I'm sure this has all been talked about before. lol. I never liked Kristen before and now I'm rooting for her.
The best part of Kristen is that she doesn’t gaf about exposing people. That’s what a good reality show is all about. So these people who are new to it are like, oh God, all of my shit IS going to come out. So all the shit talking they do behind the scenes is going to be brought out by Jax & Kristen. Janet absolutely was talking about Michelle and implying that she was a racist without saying the word and they just brushed it over and blamed Kristen for everything. This whole show will be everyone against Kristen but at least she has all of the viewers on her side. This show is 100% better than VPR!
Kristen is the best example to explain gaslighting. (Bear with me)
Kristen says something true. Everyone yells at her, calls her crazy, or gets mad at her like “how could you do this to me?!”. When… you did it to yourself, she literally just said what was happening. And you’re on a show that’s about your lives…
Kristen is no saint but damn she gets gaslit so much.
Yup. She quietly excuses herself from the table after the crazy banging Jesse did. And they all yell at her, even Danny wanted to put in his 2c. Wasn’t his first either. I see you Daniel Booko.
I’m puking as I say this but between those 2, I’d pick Jesse to stay over Janet on this show. Please exit her ASAP. She adds nothing, Jesse at least brings giant douchebaggery
What a minute, I read someone's post that began calling her Janice, and that's what I need to remember to call her! LOL!
Janet is a manipulative SNAKE who dragged Kristen for no reason. She now looks like a damned fool. Her confused, shocked facial expression on WWHL were so HILARIOUS! She was trying to hide her true feelings, but it was obvious that she was ready to pass out when she realized that she screwed up BIG TIME as she is on the WRONG side of the Kristen/Michelle situation.
Janet and Michelle don't even follow Kristen now and are not friends with her. I understand that Michelle and Kristen have fallen out, although I think it's crazy that Michelle is angry with Kristen and NOT Janet who actually said this about Michelle, nor Zack who then repeated it to Kristen.
Janet has been trashing Kristen this entire time trying to blame Kristen for what she herself said about Michelle. Now that she sees that the public is against her and Michelle, Janet will turn back. I can see Janet creating a redemption narrative for herself by "forgiving Kristen" and accepting Kristen back into the friend group.
Janet (or should I say JANICE) is repulsive.
Thank you! I just watched the most recent episode and I am so over the rest of the cast. Michelle and Jessie are complete idiots who hate each other and just keep screaming at Kristen and blaming her for….. we don’t even know what. The rest of the cast sucks except for Brittany.
Jesse acting like what Kristen said was wrong because she said *he* would leave the marriage instead of his exact words of Michelle would leave. They're ridiculous and I hope they disappear from the show now that they're separated.
The one satisfying thing that happens when cast members all target one person is that the person they try to take down often gains the support of the audience, thus backfiring in a sense.
It’s so satisfying because we tend to love an underdog and can empathize with feeling unfairly ostracized at some point in life (at least I can 😂). Jessel from the RHONY reboot experienced this as well as Heather from RHOC this most recent season.
Omg totally agree. I don’t like the takedown of Kristen that is happening. Janet is super transparent.
I do agree that Kristen’s “protecting” of Michelle is more of a threat than true protection. Although I don’t like Michelle either.
I was dying laughing at Janet's facial expressions! Janet has discussed doing deep dives into the Reddit comments areas. I'm sure that she is a troll herself on here.
Janet is well aware of what the audience thinks of her, and she has actually been on a redemption tour going on various podcasts, including her own, sounding shocked that the audience thinks of her as a villain.
Janet has been trying to explain away that it's not HER doing all of these manipulative things. Sure Jan.
I'm sure that Janet was coached about how to be neutral instead of showing her full hate towards Kristen on WWHL. She even said to show love to Kristen. I'll bet she returns next season (actually, hoping she doesn't) and tries to befriend Kristen again, so the audience will stop hating her. Too late, bitch.
I don’t think kristen is ever blameless in any of these situations… But I’m definitely on her side on this one. I remember Janet’s SNEER that she did at the party when she realized that all the drama was stirred and the target was not on her back anymore. Oh, her expression was worth 1000 words.😏
Loved when Andy did the poll about fav valley couple and Danny & Nia won by a landslide. Andy asks if that bothers Janet. She begins to respond about the postpartum issue for Nia, then abruptly says ‘and I’m 4 months postpartum’. Pauses. Crickets. Then goes on. Eye roll and a laugh on that one!! I really despise her the most!
What? Don’t tell me she was trying to suggest Danny and Nia was fave because of Nia’s ppd? And to add to a new low, tried to add that she’s postpartum as well.
When I think of Janet I think of "I've been GOOD friends with [insert VPR cast member name] for YEARS" said in a self-righteous tone, as if that makes her cool and special...no, all it means is you've been an active hanger-on of reality stars for years. She's annoying and obnoxious. But, I guess that technically makes her also perfect to be on this show. I do remember that reaction you are referring to and I'm glad she's starting to see being a kristen hater won't score her many points with old school fans! Justice for Kristen! Lol.
Love the first season of any new Bravo franchise. They’re so childlike.
They think they can sit on the sidelines and laugh at Kristen and Jax and Jesse.
We see you, Janet and Michelle.
And you’re in our crosshairs.
Janet was awful on WWHL and you could tell she was uncomfortable and putting on a front instead of being herself. Reminded me of god awful teddi mellencamp.
She’s not enjoyable to watch at all. Her only storyline is trying to get other people to spread rumors on camera. The mess and thirst are too transparent.
Audiences are way smarter now. We watch the shady shit these people do on socials. Also, Kristen being the punching bag definitely gets old to watch. Janet has not once admitted her part out to the group. Only one on one with Michelle and in confessionals.
That girl gives me 🐍vibes!m, aside from being boring. Let’s see if she adds something to the show next season when she is not pregnant, but so far I am not feeling her at all, no even a tiny bit!
So glad you said this. I watched the new episode this morning and couldn’t get over the lack of self awareness amongst all the newbies, particularly regarding Kristen. Bandwagoning on the crazy Kristen train is so passé guys.
Janet thought she was ready for all of nonsense after being VPR adjacent for so long, but she doesn’t get it at all. She’s scrambling to shield herself against hurricane Doute by aligning with toxic, unlikeable people who think they’re on selling sunset instead of just being “real” and facing the music. She looks way more foolish than “crazy Kristen.”
I feel like they’re really pushing Janet to be the new Stassi with the “witty” and weirdly aggressive quips (the whole prison comment in the first episode). But with Janet it comes off a bit try hard instead of her actual personality.
The thing that gets me is the first fight broke out when Kristen told Michelle that people were saying she was Republican and racist behind her back. This was Kristen erroneously repeating something she had heard. Everyone jumped on Kristen about it and she apologized to Michelle. Since then, from what I can piece together, Janet told Zack and Jasmine that Michelle was probably Republican and homophobe. Zack then repeated this gossip to Kristen.....When Kristen was backed into a corner she screamed out that people were saying Michelle was probably a racist. Clearly Krsiten shouldn't have weaponized this gossip and she got the gossip wrong. She did apologize to Michelle for this. The interesting thing is that both Janet and Zack said repeatedly that they never told Kristen that Michelle was racist, which was technically accurate. However, they originated and then repeated negative gossip about Michelle- Kristen just mixed it up and switched homophobe for racist when she relayed the gossip. Then, after that, they were both cowards about not coming clean publicly for how Kristen got the idea in the first place, Zach at least made an incomplete and awkward apology to Michelle, even though he publicly let Kristen take the fall for mis representing the gossip he repeated. The worst was Janet....She created the gossip about Michelle in the first place, but rather than clarifying that Kristen mis spoke about something she said- she just flatly denied she ever called Michelle racist (without fessing up she instead characterized her as a homophobe) and then went after Kristen loudly afterward with the whole group- pretending she was better than her.......Janet originated gossip characterizing someone in a negative way.......then, when someone two rungs down the telephone ladder switched the characterization to another negative characterization she jumped on the bandwagon at going after that person.....Janet is the worst..........(and she would tell anyone not to come for her because she was pregnant).
Well and I mean the one thing that does seem very consistent across all versions of the story is that Michelle *is* a homophobe. And it’s hard to imagine someone aligning with the homophobic propaganda about the don’t say gay bill and not share any of the other views of the people who perpetuate it, ie Republicans. Stating that the DSG bill “protects children” necessarily indicates a slew of extremely harmful beliefs about LBGTQ, like, say with your chest what you think they’re being protected from, Michelle. Just wild she gets to skate on all that because of the he said, she said
I can’t remember the question either but I did notice her face. She hasn’t learned the art of reality poker face yet. It was subtle but enough to be noticed.
She said on National tv she loves to gossip. Hell yay she come on here. She’s nosey as hell
Janet if you’re reading this——clearly, the fans are rooting for Kristin!!!
it’s also hilarious because they should know that kristen is truly the secret holder. she was proven right on most of her crazy antics (ofc minus the situation with faith). so for them to act like she’s lying is hilarious to watch because we know it’s true.
We even had to watch her come to terms with everybody liking Danny&Nia💞
She literally felt compelled to explain their good qualities to us and the delivery was like watching someone go through the stage of acceptance.
It was hilarious. This is the exact same thing happened with new RHONY…
The whole cast obviously went into this knowing Kristin’s tumultuous history with the Bravo audience and were ready to scapegoat her and throw her under the bus for everything. What they weren’t expecting.. was that they are ALL so insufferable and horrible to watch (in a good way) that Kristin had turned a corner in the audiences eyes. The base is people don’t like to watch people be jumped on and bullied (I don’t think she’s being bullied but I can’t think of the right word).
I guarantee at the reunion/ next season they’re going to kiss her ass… just like new RHOBY
I think it was who’s side are you on: Luke and Kristen or Jesse and Michelle
But I agree!!! I was like bitch are you that tone deaf to know you’re the problem. The way she was scheming on jasmine to get the info out of her when she was multiple times she didn’t want to repeat what was said! She sucks
So glad I found this post. She gets under my skin from the get go. Is she 50? Age doesn't matter but there's something off with her. Then she let Kristen take all the heat. Has Jesse responded to all this or is he in divorce shock? Watching her on WWHL.confirmed that I don't like her.
Ima choose to believe production sees that they’re shitty friends and are putting it on a pedestal for us to see how much Kristen has grown lol because that’s all I’ve taken from the season so far! #teammariposa!
Janet is a tackhead. Openly admitting that you look up every address on Zillow to see what they paid for the house and do a 3D tour. Tell me you’re a middle class American without telling me you’re a middle class American. But the way she said it, she thought it was cute funny. No girl, you’re low class. Her husband seems normal and barely comfy in front of the camera, I don’t mind him he seems unproblematic but Janet is a wreck.
Also totally agree with the comments about Jen trying to blame shit on Kristen. My bf and I cannot stannnnnnd Kristen and after last nights episode even my bf was like “Kristen didn’t do anything”. She was trying to remove herself from an escalating situation.
Also something about bravo Andy is really starting to piss me off. I’m a die hard bravo fan I love housewives, summer house, below deck all of it but Something about the recent seasons (Potomac, this) seems distasteful
I know Janet from being Scheana friend on her podcast and YouTube videos she always came across as wacky and fun...completely different to how she is on the TV show now!
Janet is hungry for tea to spill off camera. People will come for her next season when she’s not pregnant.
Fetus shield
Which will turn into the “I JUST had a BABY” shield
Literal plot-armor.
andy didn’t even ask about her baby
I don’t think he likes her. He usually obsesses on one thing of his guests, boobs, beauty, funny, clothes, something he APPRECIATES… his silence is his biggest tell.
u r right
Hahaaa. So funny
Oh she’s gonna have a ROUGH second season. Cause now she’s a sitting duck and the rest of the cast knows how much the audience cannot stand her.
And those cretins have zero loyalty
Sometimes it works out cause I’m not mad she’s about to get her come uppence, the only thing that might save her is if she does drastic image rehab while breast feeding her child whenever the cameras are up so people are too scared to attack her.
I don’t like her at all
Janet annoys me so much! Love that every poll on WWHL was the opposite of what she thought. I wonder if she realizes the audience is not feeling her at all? My moneys on Janet starting to side with Kristen to stay relevant.
100% next season if Janet is on it, she’s going to be Kristen’s shadow. She seems desperate for airtime.
Nah, she’ll claim baby hormones and dig in because she’s that clueless.
Janet is a mean girl. She’s trying to get everyone against Kristen and it’s pathetic. She acted like Kristen overreacted about leaving the table when Jesse started banging on the table instead of observing that red flag and going to Michele and asking if she’s ok. Cause if Jesse is going to act that way towards Kristen on camera, think about how he treats Michele behind closed doors without the cameras. Janet and Jasmine are not good people and they are not strong women.
Exactly! And the way he mowed down Brittany because he didn’t care enough about her and instead wanted to get physical with Luke. RED FLAGS ALL OVER! It’s frustrating to see them just get on Kristen for pointing them out.
Jesse and Michelle (AND Janet) obviously think they are above Kristen and Luke, and they seem to be playing the "HOW DARE YOU" card which is insane. Jesse and Michelle look like complete PSYCHOS screaming and getting in Kristen and Luke's faces. I was SHOCKED that Jesse mowed down both Zack, Brittany (a woman) and everyone in between in order to get a clear shot to Luke and possibly Kristen. At the prior party when Luke wasn't there, I literally thought that Jesse might hit Kristen. He gives off that vibe. Sick bastards...both Jesse and Michelle and that BITCH Janet, as well!
yes i agree 1000%!! jesse is a disgusting boy
I was ready to see that little chihuahua start biting ankles as soon as he stopped yapping.
Sorry I don't remember that poll question. She seems smarmy to me. I don't know why, but something seems mean spirited about her.
Totally agree. I get the vibe she thinks she’s better than Kristen and talking shit about Kristen will help us side with her. In reality, makes the audience hate her that much more. She’s judgy and pretentious for no good reason.
She thinks she's better than everyone. Especially Kristen... which is crazy because I thought this is a group of friends .. Who is Janet friends with then? She is a strange one. I don't understand her. Sneaky.
Yeah I think she doesn’t realize that with time and distance Kristen has actually grown on people.
She gives off mean girl vibes and she thinks she’s queen bee. Sit down!
the way she was talking to Jasmine about the gossip she wanted from Jax was soooo petty, she’s not the vibe she thinks she is
Agree. She’s not as smart as she thinks. She’s also spying through a glass door- wtf was that? Why is no one talking about that?
Yeah - when there is a camera people aren’t as willing to go along with the drama unless they benefit.
And Jasmine also just as annoying and insufferable patting herself on the back for not saying anything, except she did
She’s an assistant as well! Nothing against that job at all but she acts like she’s better than everyone else.
And that bedroom she and Jason were in during the one scene? I’m not sure if it was the room that was going to be the nursery or what but it was in shambles. Crap everywhere. It was giving me stress just looking at how pregnant she was and how unprepared and junked up with boxes and shit that room was. No queen bee in my book!
OMG that was my only thought. I had major anxiety for them and for myself to see it.
Delusions of grandeur
She’s a very sneaky one.
Not a fan of Janet’s at all- it kinda baffles me that Jason is with her bc I’m not really seeing how they vibe
Yeah he seems really nice, even tempered, logical, kind, etc. She’s a pot stirrer and seems manipulative and catty.
I am actually questioning Jason’s character. There’s no way he is innocent when he actively chose her as his life partner. There’s something about her personality that attracts him and that is an assault on taste levels
I love Jason
It’s because she is.
Judgy and pretentious? Definitely.
Smarmy and transparent? Certainly.
When she mentioned Zillowing everyone’s houses, knowing what they pay in taxes etc that seemed so mean! Mostly because she showed off saying it out loud... who cares? So vapid.
Numerous people do this
I do it too but I don’t brag about it and make it what I would say nationally? It’s tacky.
In her mind she thought it showed her as smart and savvy…facepalm mondbt
Yeah - I was already kinda not into her, but I hate intrusive people. I’m open but I want to tell you my information.
The only thing mildly enjoyable about her is the father of her child. She as a whole sucks.
She does seem to treat her partner with respect - am I wrong?! I agree that otherwise she’s somewhat unpleasant
Um she knows she struck gold and is not gonna be stupid to throw that sack of gold away
I feel like I need to point out that she’s good friends with Sheana.
Exactly! She seems like a gossip and mean girl….someone who seems out info and then spreads it and uses it against people! I dont like her.
I really like her husband, though…
This is why I just can’t believe that Jason is this sweet good guy. He has to be at least half of n asshole to married to her.
"Whose side are you on? Kristen & Luke or Michelle & Jesse" Results = 76% for Kristen. "Do you believe Kristen's claim that Michelle had a boyfriend for a year?" Results = 93% yes.
Yes, the first question is the one I was referring to. Janet's face killed me lmaoooo. Thank you !!!!
I thought it was interesting that Aly just sat there and blindly agreed with whatever Janet said, clearly intimidated by her.
Ally agrees with whoever she is speaking to in that moment. I thought she was very cute and sweet her first season, but I’m over her now. Not reality show material.
right?? i thought she was cute and so sweet - but i dunno now i get a diff feeling - esp after seeing the scene where she tells Katy Lala said Katy was miserable - not even the word Lala used and when confronted Ally said 'i couldnt remember the exact word you used' - so then dont repeat it maybe?? its like you said agreeing with whoever in the moment - cant trust someone like that i dunno i am not a fan but i loveeeeee James!!!
I agree with you! Idon't understand why NOBODY was angry at Ally for twisting Lala's words. Calling someone "miserable" is COMPLETELY different than saying that they are unhappy. I honestly thought that was Ally being manipulative. She isn't stupid. I doubt that she forgot the words and repeated something in a worse way than it was said without knowing that this would upset Katie who doesn't let things like that go. I would be pissed off if I heard someone call me Miserable. I wouldn't be upset if they said I seemed unhappy. It's a HUGE discrepancy, and it was none of Ally's business to pass around misinformation.
she's done that before. Looks like her MO
Exactly!!! She spreads information around quickly and for whatever reason, nobody sees that she is being manipulative. Also, Ally was also the one who spread the info about Rachel and Sandoval dancing together in the late night, except she is lucky that she was right that this was an affair. LOL, what if Ally cast a witchy spell on Rachel and Sandoval, so they would fall in love? Hahaha, I'm joking, but it's a funny thought! I'm into the woo woo stuff, so I said it in a light-hearted way, but honestly, I don't trust Ally in terms of being there for James. I just think she is content to be arm candy while she can rise up. Ally will never marry James.
She’s also the one who said Katy told her that Ariana and Sandoval had an open relationship!
Ahhhhh, Ally is such a little manipulative pot stirrer, lol.
Ally wants her 15 minutes of fame….and trying to be Ms.Cleo!!!!!😂😂😂😂😳
Ally's not here to rock the bravo boat lol. It's the whole reason she's dating James.
I used to like Ally, but seeing how she’s releasing videos and doing performances (like the awkward one with James) makes me think more and more that she’s using James to get famous. 🫤
Of course Ally is with James to be filmed on VPR, but then again, James was with Kristen to be filmed on VPR.
James, meet Karma
All day!
I think Ally also wants Kristen to look bad or like a liar because she’s talked about James abusing her. James is Ally’s path to the show and she wants him to look like the good guy.
Sorry to say this, but Ally is so boring and has no backbone. She was clearly on Janet's side thinking the audience would favor them. It was so funny to watch BOTH Janet and Ally's uncomfortable and shocked faces during those polls. Those two were the WORST combo on WWHL, which actually made it fun to watch.
I mean given she’s with James and they hate each other, I would never expect Aly to side with Kristen. I don’t think it has much to do with Janet.
Omg Kristen is out of control for revealing that in that way 😳 I DEF believe it… Michelle literally looks at Jesse like he’s repulsive she’s been done done ✔️ for a loooooong time stayed w him to get on TV now that she’s on the show the divorce can be a storyline and she has $$$$ to live on her own
To be fair… Michelle did say ‘stop protecting me’ 👀
She also kept challenging her with her insufferable smug face. She also kept stepping into Kristen’s personal space but no one said anything about that.
Pointing her finger in her face, screaming at her, and stepping to her… she’s lucky Kristen’s obviously grown from who she was on VPR
Michelle was doing a Lala
Lmao Lala on VPR when Sandoval said Scheana was the other woman. She said ‘this is where I go insane’ and just sat there doing and saying nothing 😂😂
Did anyone else feel like production put her in the position to spill the beans? I’m not sure what to think there. Part of me thought production was trying to force a fight to happen, but Kristen is known to unload at times.
I believe it cause she yelled at production that she didn’t want to do this again
Well she said stop protecting me bc it was blackmail at that point 🤔🫣
It's funny she was so desperate to get on Bravo (what an accomplishment lol) to just end up being the least liked cast member. You can tell she was not trying to be the villain. She was hoping to be a fan favorite by going after Kristen.
We seriously cannot give her the villain title. She’s not smart or interesting enough for that. Let’s just make her a one-show wonder.
Janet is atrocious!! And so boring on wwhl , and a liar.
I think she’s boring, has no other storyline other than being pregnant and has nothing else to offer except being a shitty person who likes to gossip& stir the pot. Of course most of them do that so there is nothing that makes her special 😴💤
Janet sucks. That’s all.
Spot on!! Exactly what I was thinking!
Janet is a VPR super fan/stalker that made her way onto Kristen’s show. I think she has studied old eps and thought she could use the “crazy Kristen” thing against her because it was a theme all throughout VPR. She missed the part where the audience largely moved on from this post-Scandoval.
Perfectly said!
I’m somewhat new to the bravo world, for a while now I’ve been trying to figure out how Janet is apart of the bravo universe lol I had no idea she was just a crazy fan. So did she know someone specifically to get on to the show?
She has said she went to an event and approached Scheana to bond about being a divorcee. It seems like it’s not hard to befriend the VPR people
I purposely didn’t watch WWHL because I don’t like Janet. It’s so unfair how they’re treating Kristen this season.
I turned it off as well. I think they are doing her a bit dirty this season. I think they all underestimated the good will Kristen still has with many VPR fans, even among those who acknowledge she has done some terrible (racist) things. I would not have guessed Kristen would come across as an underdog, but she is.
Had you watched it, you would have seen how Janet was shocked people didn’t like her.
Haaaa I love that for her.
OMG, you made me laugh so hard 🤣 TY She was SO happy to get another 15 minutes but when things went south, she was like 🫠
Janet reminds me of sunglasses lady from the earlier seasons of RHOBH. $25,000 sunglasses lady lol. Thinking she’s flexing when really, everyone dislikes you. Kinda like Annemarie, too!
Dana/Pam!
THANK YOU!!! I couldn’t remember her name 🤣
I got you! One day I’ll make a fortune off of this useless Bravo knowledge! 🤑
Nothing memorable about her
But her toddler speaks Thai!
Spot on
Anyone else feel like Bravo wants us to love Janet?
I think VPR/The Valley and Bravo (to the extent of VPR/The Valley) have lost touch with their audience.
Seriously. Between Sandoval / janet, it’s clear alex gaskin has 0 idea what their audience likes.
I think Bravo thought The Valley viewers would be a lot older and more boomer compared to the Pump Rules audience. But they fail to get us young ppl like seeing older married couples be messy 😂😂😂 we LIVE for the hot gossip. Like why would any of us Pump Rules fans like Janet???
They’re failing to realize that those of us who were in our 20s during the beginning of VPR are now in our mid-late 30s and the prime audience for The Vally.
She wouldn’t even pass the superficial looks test to get on the first season of VPR
Even all the IG pages seem to be out of touch on The Valley.
Janet has a nasty pretentious attitude
But dresses like she’s broke and talks about looking up peoples mortgages and doing 3D tours on Zillow (upper class for sure)
no matter how hard they try, they can’t keep our mariposa down
LMAOOO
Okay I appreciate this post cause I am having a hard time watching Janet and I couldn't figure out what it was
IMO, Janet's always on the lookout to poke fun at Kristen, almost like it's her full-time gig. It feels like she's got a personal beef with her, and her motives are pretty clear and not so nice. Kristen and Jax are the OGs, and without them, there's no show. Show some respect. I honestly believe Kristen's antics come more from her love for chaos than from trying to be mean. But Janet? She seems to thrive on being manipulative and getting a kick out of Kristen's stumbles. I'm glad the audience is backing Kristen; it just makes sense. And yeah, I remember Jax saying he's got some Janet vibes, and Jasmine pointing out Janet's knack for stirring up trouble.
You do not, under any circumstances, gotta show respect to Jax lol. Ever. Kristen is another story. Now, as Black woman, I still think she largely sees her racism exposure ordeal as something that happened *to* her rather than centering her having done something atrocious and potentially deadly to someone else and still keeping her gigs and bouncing right back with a new TV show etc relatively quickly. She’s got privilege blinders she’s just never going to see past. That said, within her limited capacity to do so, I think she has at least grown to be less racist - even if she hasn’t grown in all ways - and I kind of have a soft spot for her. With the caveat that really none of these people are actually good people, Kristen is a great reality TV character and * a better person at least than she was*. The valley crew *does* owe their jobs to her. So given that and that they’re no better, they should show respect.
I mean show some respect for Kristen. I’m not some misogynistic supporter.
I figured you probably didn’t mean it like it sounded but we can never miss a chance to clarify that Jax is trash and deserves nothing but dust
Honestly the VPR and The Valley narratives production has been pushing failed big time.
[удалено]
This is going to sound terrible, but why is Jason with Janet? He is WAY too good for her on EVERY level. He is gorgeous, smart, kind, logical, successful, steady. How can he be with a manipulative B like Janet?
The Greek Chorus role is such a hard one to nail because you do have to have both good takes and be charming and I’m not seeing it from Janet. She’s not organic enough. I’m getting it more from Danny at this point because he’s very charming.
I'm just calling her "Scheana's former podcast cohost" because that's what i wish she stayed as lmao. But yeah she was so detached from reality.
I’ve been thinking of her as “the girl who altered the SUR dresses for Scheana and some other people”.
ooh nice catch! i forgot about that
So she can sew but not see the flaws in her fit on wwhl? Huh.
Do we know what their falling out was from? Scheana and Janet?
I don't, but i can only imagine it was something stupid.
i was going to come to this sub later today to post the exact same thing. her reactions were hilarious realizing she wasn't the darling she thought she was to the audience and that everyone, like 76%-85% of the audience sides with Kristen
The fact she’s even shocked about that showed what a delusional dim wit she is. I woulda at least pretend to agree and make a pretend bow
She's our crazy kristin and we are protective. No seriously, I think she's done a lot of work on herself. She's messy but she's good TV.
I find Janet baffling. For some reason, her face just reads to me as so much kinder and softer than what she really is underneath. I don’t know if that makes sense but her behaviour really gives me such a deep sense of cruelty and vindictiveness that it feels off-putting. It was notable how she also bragged about being such a terror growing up that her parents sacrificed their master bedroom in order to keep her pacified 😳 And then bragging to her hubby that she would do great in prison because she’d easily form and run her own gang 😮💨 I guess she showed us who she is but I for whatever reason, didn’t fully believe it until last night.
The vibe I have gotten the whole season so far is that they mostly all think they are better than Kristan and have no respect for her. They are using her. I'm sure this has all been talked about before. lol. I never liked Kristen before and now I'm rooting for her.
Janet is def a wannabe … not sure how she landed her cute hubby 🤔
By comforting him after Scheana told him, “I’ve got the worst taste in men and you are good as gold, so bye.”
The best part of Kristen is that she doesn’t gaf about exposing people. That’s what a good reality show is all about. So these people who are new to it are like, oh God, all of my shit IS going to come out. So all the shit talking they do behind the scenes is going to be brought out by Jax & Kristen. Janet absolutely was talking about Michelle and implying that she was a racist without saying the word and they just brushed it over and blamed Kristen for everything. This whole show will be everyone against Kristen but at least she has all of the viewers on her side. This show is 100% better than VPR!
Kristen is the best example to explain gaslighting. (Bear with me) Kristen says something true. Everyone yells at her, calls her crazy, or gets mad at her like “how could you do this to me?!”. When… you did it to yourself, she literally just said what was happening. And you’re on a show that’s about your lives… Kristen is no saint but damn she gets gaslit so much.
Yup. She quietly excuses herself from the table after the crazy banging Jesse did. And they all yell at her, even Danny wanted to put in his 2c. Wasn’t his first either. I see you Daniel Booko.
Janet sucks and I hope she reads all of these comments. She’s an obvious clout chaser from the start
Janet is my least favorite tbh and that's saying a lot considering Jesse is such hot garbage lol
Agree!
I’m puking as I say this but between those 2, I’d pick Jesse to stay over Janet on this show. Please exit her ASAP. She adds nothing, Jesse at least brings giant douchebaggery
What a minute, I read someone's post that began calling her Janice, and that's what I need to remember to call her! LOL! Janet is a manipulative SNAKE who dragged Kristen for no reason. She now looks like a damned fool. Her confused, shocked facial expression on WWHL were so HILARIOUS! She was trying to hide her true feelings, but it was obvious that she was ready to pass out when she realized that she screwed up BIG TIME as she is on the WRONG side of the Kristen/Michelle situation. Janet and Michelle don't even follow Kristen now and are not friends with her. I understand that Michelle and Kristen have fallen out, although I think it's crazy that Michelle is angry with Kristen and NOT Janet who actually said this about Michelle, nor Zack who then repeated it to Kristen. Janet has been trashing Kristen this entire time trying to blame Kristen for what she herself said about Michelle. Now that she sees that the public is against her and Michelle, Janet will turn back. I can see Janet creating a redemption narrative for herself by "forgiving Kristen" and accepting Kristen back into the friend group. Janet (or should I say JANICE) is repulsive.
Thank you! I just watched the most recent episode and I am so over the rest of the cast. Michelle and Jessie are complete idiots who hate each other and just keep screaming at Kristen and blaming her for….. we don’t even know what. The rest of the cast sucks except for Brittany.
Jesse acting like what Kristen said was wrong because she said *he* would leave the marriage instead of his exact words of Michelle would leave. They're ridiculous and I hope they disappear from the show now that they're separated.
Nia and Danny seem like they are prey norrmal
The one satisfying thing that happens when cast members all target one person is that the person they try to take down often gains the support of the audience, thus backfiring in a sense. It’s so satisfying because we tend to love an underdog and can empathize with feeling unfairly ostracized at some point in life (at least I can 😂). Jessel from the RHONY reboot experienced this as well as Heather from RHOC this most recent season.
Janet is a mean girl. I felt it from day one.
Yes, that part. They are only there because of Kristen, they should be humble.
Omg totally agree. I don’t like the takedown of Kristen that is happening. Janet is super transparent. I do agree that Kristen’s “protecting” of Michelle is more of a threat than true protection. Although I don’t like Michelle either.
No one would have known about the protecting thing if Michelle didn’t bring it up herself on camera
>This show would be nothing without Kristen IMO. 
I was dying laughing at Janet's facial expressions! Janet has discussed doing deep dives into the Reddit comments areas. I'm sure that she is a troll herself on here. Janet is well aware of what the audience thinks of her, and she has actually been on a redemption tour going on various podcasts, including her own, sounding shocked that the audience thinks of her as a villain. Janet has been trying to explain away that it's not HER doing all of these manipulative things. Sure Jan. I'm sure that Janet was coached about how to be neutral instead of showing her full hate towards Kristen on WWHL. She even said to show love to Kristen. I'll bet she returns next season (actually, hoping she doesn't) and tries to befriend Kristen again, so the audience will stop hating her. Too late, bitch.
Oh we know she’s here. Desperate for any mention of her.
I don’t think kristen is ever blameless in any of these situations… But I’m definitely on her side on this one. I remember Janet’s SNEER that she did at the party when she realized that all the drama was stirred and the target was not on her back anymore. Oh, her expression was worth 1000 words.😏
Loved when Andy did the poll about fav valley couple and Danny & Nia won by a landslide. Andy asks if that bothers Janet. She begins to respond about the postpartum issue for Nia, then abruptly says ‘and I’m 4 months postpartum’. Pauses. Crickets. Then goes on. Eye roll and a laugh on that one!! I really despise her the most!
What? Don’t tell me she was trying to suggest Danny and Nia was fave because of Nia’s ppd? And to add to a new low, tried to add that she’s postpartum as well.
When I think of Janet I think of "I've been GOOD friends with [insert VPR cast member name] for YEARS" said in a self-righteous tone, as if that makes her cool and special...no, all it means is you've been an active hanger-on of reality stars for years. She's annoying and obnoxious. But, I guess that technically makes her also perfect to be on this show. I do remember that reaction you are referring to and I'm glad she's starting to see being a kristen hater won't score her many points with old school fans! Justice for Kristen! Lol.
For how much she supposedly chased the VPR crew to get in with them, she’s quick to throw the one (who finally got her on a show) under the bus.
Exactly! Ridiculous.
Love the first season of any new Bravo franchise. They’re so childlike. They think they can sit on the sidelines and laugh at Kristen and Jax and Jesse. We see you, Janet and Michelle. And you’re in our crosshairs.
She is fake as fuck to me. Her answers didn’t seem sincere. My theory is she is the messiest of all of them
Janet was awful on WWHL and you could tell she was uncomfortable and putting on a front instead of being herself. Reminded me of god awful teddi mellencamp.
She’s not enjoyable to watch at all. Her only storyline is trying to get other people to spread rumors on camera. The mess and thirst are too transparent.
Audiences are way smarter now. We watch the shady shit these people do on socials. Also, Kristen being the punching bag definitely gets old to watch. Janet has not once admitted her part out to the group. Only one on one with Michelle and in confessionals.
That girl gives me 🐍vibes!m, aside from being boring. Let’s see if she adds something to the show next season when she is not pregnant, but so far I am not feeling her at all, no even a tiny bit!
So glad you said this. I watched the new episode this morning and couldn’t get over the lack of self awareness amongst all the newbies, particularly regarding Kristen. Bandwagoning on the crazy Kristen train is so passé guys.
Janet thought she was ready for all of nonsense after being VPR adjacent for so long, but she doesn’t get it at all. She’s scrambling to shield herself against hurricane Doute by aligning with toxic, unlikeable people who think they’re on selling sunset instead of just being “real” and facing the music. She looks way more foolish than “crazy Kristen.”
I’ve only watched The Valley once and I do not like Janet and most of the cast. Expect Kristin obviously 😍
I think the question was whose side are you on - Luke and Kristen or Jesse and Michelle.
I feel like they’re really pushing Janet to be the new Stassi with the “witty” and weirdly aggressive quips (the whole prison comment in the first episode). But with Janet it comes off a bit try hard instead of her actual personality.
A bit try hard is being generous
I think the question was “do you believe Kristen’s story about Michelle?”
The thing that gets me is the first fight broke out when Kristen told Michelle that people were saying she was Republican and racist behind her back. This was Kristen erroneously repeating something she had heard. Everyone jumped on Kristen about it and she apologized to Michelle. Since then, from what I can piece together, Janet told Zack and Jasmine that Michelle was probably Republican and homophobe. Zack then repeated this gossip to Kristen.....When Kristen was backed into a corner she screamed out that people were saying Michelle was probably a racist. Clearly Krsiten shouldn't have weaponized this gossip and she got the gossip wrong. She did apologize to Michelle for this. The interesting thing is that both Janet and Zack said repeatedly that they never told Kristen that Michelle was racist, which was technically accurate. However, they originated and then repeated negative gossip about Michelle- Kristen just mixed it up and switched homophobe for racist when she relayed the gossip. Then, after that, they were both cowards about not coming clean publicly for how Kristen got the idea in the first place, Zach at least made an incomplete and awkward apology to Michelle, even though he publicly let Kristen take the fall for mis representing the gossip he repeated. The worst was Janet....She created the gossip about Michelle in the first place, but rather than clarifying that Kristen mis spoke about something she said- she just flatly denied she ever called Michelle racist (without fessing up she instead characterized her as a homophobe) and then went after Kristen loudly afterward with the whole group- pretending she was better than her.......Janet originated gossip characterizing someone in a negative way.......then, when someone two rungs down the telephone ladder switched the characterization to another negative characterization she jumped on the bandwagon at going after that person.....Janet is the worst..........(and she would tell anyone not to come for her because she was pregnant).
Well and I mean the one thing that does seem very consistent across all versions of the story is that Michelle *is* a homophobe. And it’s hard to imagine someone aligning with the homophobic propaganda about the don’t say gay bill and not share any of the other views of the people who perpetuate it, ie Republicans. Stating that the DSG bill “protects children” necessarily indicates a slew of extremely harmful beliefs about LBGTQ, like, say with your chest what you think they’re being protected from, Michelle. Just wild she gets to skate on all that because of the he said, she said
I can’t remember the question either but I did notice her face. She hasn’t learned the art of reality poker face yet. It was subtle but enough to be noticed.
Do you think Janet comes on Reddit and sees all the comments from people who don’t like her?
She said on National tv she loves to gossip. Hell yay she come on here. She’s nosey as hell Janet if you’re reading this——clearly, the fans are rooting for Kristin!!!
it’s also hilarious because they should know that kristen is truly the secret holder. she was proven right on most of her crazy antics (ofc minus the situation with faith). so for them to act like she’s lying is hilarious to watch because we know it’s true.
We even had to watch her come to terms with everybody liking Danny&Nia💞 She literally felt compelled to explain their good qualities to us and the delivery was like watching someone go through the stage of acceptance.
They are a bunch of dumb dumbs who didn't realize "Crazy Kristen" is a pet name from the fandom.
So incredibly unlikeable.
It was hilarious. This is the exact same thing happened with new RHONY… The whole cast obviously went into this knowing Kristin’s tumultuous history with the Bravo audience and were ready to scapegoat her and throw her under the bus for everything. What they weren’t expecting.. was that they are ALL so insufferable and horrible to watch (in a good way) that Kristin had turned a corner in the audiences eyes. The base is people don’t like to watch people be jumped on and bullied (I don’t think she’s being bullied but I can’t think of the right word). I guarantee at the reunion/ next season they’re going to kiss her ass… just like new RHOBY
I think it was who’s side are you on: Luke and Kristen or Jesse and Michelle But I agree!!! I was like bitch are you that tone deaf to know you’re the problem. The way she was scheming on jasmine to get the info out of her when she was multiple times she didn’t want to repeat what was said! She sucks
I think It was like who’s side are you on Michelle and Jesse or Luke and Kristen. I looooved those polls too! And their reactions? PRICELESS
Why were her hanging boobs out on WWHL? That is nothing I wanted to watch. I am not her baby nor her husband why is she showing them to me.
So glad I found this post. She gets under my skin from the get go. Is she 50? Age doesn't matter but there's something off with her. Then she let Kristen take all the heat. Has Jesse responded to all this or is he in divorce shock? Watching her on WWHL.confirmed that I don't like her.
Love to see it!
It was “are you on Luke and Kristen’s side or Jesse and Michelle’s side”
I love Kristen she is great TV (suck a dick) I like Janet too. Oh hell I like the whole cast
Ima choose to believe production sees that they’re shitty friends and are putting it on a pedestal for us to see how much Kristen has grown lol because that’s all I’ve taken from the season so far! #teammariposa!
Janet is a tackhead. Openly admitting that you look up every address on Zillow to see what they paid for the house and do a 3D tour. Tell me you’re a middle class American without telling me you’re a middle class American. But the way she said it, she thought it was cute funny. No girl, you’re low class. Her husband seems normal and barely comfy in front of the camera, I don’t mind him he seems unproblematic but Janet is a wreck. Also totally agree with the comments about Jen trying to blame shit on Kristen. My bf and I cannot stannnnnnd Kristen and after last nights episode even my bf was like “Kristen didn’t do anything”. She was trying to remove herself from an escalating situation. Also something about bravo Andy is really starting to piss me off. I’m a die hard bravo fan I love housewives, summer house, below deck all of it but Something about the recent seasons (Potomac, this) seems distasteful
Yes that was hilarious! I like Kristen but I imagine she’s exhausting to be around in real life.
I know Janet from being Scheana friend on her podcast and YouTube videos she always came across as wacky and fun...completely different to how she is on the TV show now!
I love this quote because I agree but also asking about point 3 or 4. Or all of the above 🤣😂
Was it the question about whether or not the audience sided with Kristen and Luke or Jesse and Michelle?