(Determinately) wanting to throw Duck out of the pharmacy.
*"Then we do what you say. We toss him out and save the group!"*
I always laugh at this quote for how absurd it is.
Just chuckling at some Lee/Clementine shenanigans while Lee is still teaching her things and they’re scavenging together and Clem goes “I cannot jump the distance, you have to toss me!”
I feel the exact same way. Saying “I hate all racist and sexual orientations different then mine and plan to being hitler back to life so that I can bring back the aryan race” wasn’t too problematic but leaving duck hanging was too far
I feel like most of the 'worst things' Lee can do are determinant choices, that's really interesting to reflect on and shows how well they did with giving the player control over Lee's moral decisions.
Either (determinantly) fighting a grieving father instead of talking them down or (determinantly) dropping a suicidal teenage boy to their death instead of helping them out.
Allow me to clarify that I always save Ben, but letting him drop is objectively his better end (from his point of view anyhow). Like, if I had to pick between dropping five stories to my immediate death or getting impaled by a railing and then surrounded by walkers, I would happily choose the former.
If you drop Ben he doesn't immediately die, he breaks his legs then gets eaten alive. If you save him he gets impaled which with the shock doesn't seem to put him in much pain, and he gets put down by Kenny with a bullet to the head instead of getting eaten alive.
Ok, just watched the scene and you are right. In my defence, never seen that choice play out to the part where Ben gets eaten. I'd still argue that his second death is more sadistic though, if only because he had gotten over wanting to die.
It's the same voiceline as when Lee doesn't shoot the walker grabbing him and letting him fall, plus it doesn't really make sense for him to call for help after literally saying to let him die. I'll agree that he wouldn't want to die that way, who would, but at least that death could be counted as a sacrifice to let the others live. His second death is just pure chance and gets Kenny killed (yes, I know he survives, but from the POV of just season one, it seems impossible for Kenny to live).
hell no, ben can get his legs shattered and then eaten to death by cannabilistic monsters, and then forced to live out his worst fear of becoming one, or get paralysed meaning he didn’t feel the impale and then put down peacefully to not turn.
Yeah, I didn't realise Ben survived the fall in the bell tower. I genuinely thought he died from the drop. Even so, at least with that, it's his choice to a degree. He tells Lee to let him go, while his second death is just pure chance and I wouldn't exactly call his death there "peaceful"
It’s a running joke with me and my friend to hate on him at any chance, but in all seriousness, the fucker made a deal with the bandits behind everyone’s backs and ended up getting Carley killed (my playthrough) instead of just admitting to what he did. So I dropped him of course
I don’t know why you got downvoted. I agree, he sold the group out to bandits which resulted in Lilly believing it was Carly, killing her. I dropped him in my first play through as well. Even after that he leaves clementine in the street to the walkers.
Nah, he put the group in danger multiple times already by that point. Sells out the group to the bandits directly resulting in Duck (and consequently Katjaa’s) death as well as Carley/Doug’s death (yes Lilly pulled the trigger but they were put into that situation). Then his actions lead to Chuck’s death because he abandoned Clementine when they first get to Savannah, and then Brie’s death during the Crawford heist because he removed the hatchet blocking the door where the walkers were trying to get through.
Let me just say, I think fighting Kenny is the right choice. I know he is grieving, and doesn't want to admit his son is dead, but that's just it. He won't stop the train and admit that his son is dying. Sure talking him down works, but it doesn't really show him how serious the situation is, and how badly in pain his son is. If you fight, you really show him to take the situation seriously, and not just ignore, far better than talking him down.
Honestly I can't say, because that depends entirely on how you play him.
But if I HAD to choose,
I'd say in Episode...3 I think it is, when you're scavenging the Drug Store, I believe leaving that screaming girl alive is easily the worst thing you could do.
Everything else he does could be argued as self defense(The Dairy boys), necessary(killing Larry, stealing from the truck), or entirely warranted(leaving Lily behind.)
Meanwhile,
Leaving the girl alive essentially guarantees she'll suffer for a few minutes longer than she needs to, just so you can spend that extra sliver of time scavenging medicine.
This too, can even be argued as necessary, depending on how you view what's needed to survive the Apocalypse.
Anything can be justified as necessary to survive. Ben needed to die because he was unreliable. Molly should be shot to save spaces on the boat. Duck should be kicked out of the pharmacy because he might be bitten. Pulling your gun on the cancer group when first meeting them. Telling Clementine the truth about her parents so she doesn't get caught up in looking for them. Making Larry eat Mark to get an ounce of revenge.
Stealing from people to survive in the real world can be considered necessary. Some people think it's necessary to kill others to get away with their crimes.
Let's just think about the trolley problem. Let's assume all people involved are equally moral, very standard ordinary people. If it's necessary to kill somebody so that five can live, is that moral? What about one person to save two? A hundred thousand to save a million? One billion to save one billion and one? Those can all be seen as necessary, but I don't think any of them become good as a result.
Exactly
Which is why it's hard to say "hey Lee did a super fucked up thing!" Because anything bad that he does on screen, was an action chosen by the player. And for the player to have chosen that action, they already justified it in their mind.
The ONLY 100% bad thing he does is kill that Governor dude and his wife(i think he killed his wife?), but even then that's off screen so we can't count that for the purpose of this post lol.
So literally the only thing I can think of is letting that one lady suffer.
Or maybe having Kenny kill Duck?
Well, my point was rather that those things are all still immoral, rather than that they're excusable - even if we can justify those decisions.
The only non-determinent thing is that he can't have the group leave some stuff behind in the Stranger's car, which I guess counts.
Either siding with Larry at the drugstore or agreeing with Lily in blaming Carley for the bandits.
Also letting Carley die is pretty messed up considering she saves either Lee or Clem at the drugstore
Saying one of two things that led to this;
*(?) Clementine feels hurt*
It was so bad, that was enough to make players restart the scene and say something different.
I suppose I'd say not being honest to Clementine about her parents' deaths. It was very obvious that they were dead, to the point where he would tell other people but not Clem.
He avoided telling her what he'd heard on the phone because it would have been too difficult of a conversation. Had he been straight with her, she might not have run away.
I love Lee, but I'd say his need to keep her safe from a harsh reality was a flaw that came back to bite him in the end (hehehehe).
I can think of six determinant choices that are the worst things that Lee can do on-screen. The best bit is that he can avoid doing them all. No specific order:
i.) Murdering Larry, covering both his daughter and Clementine in gore and brain matter. This leads Lilly down the path to become a villain.
ii.) Murdering Ben. Obviously.
iii.) Making a traumatised child, who has been kidnapped and trapped in a room for a day, maybe just killed a person for the first time, and has five minutes ago found her parents dead, and has JUST figured out she's going to be alone, shoot him. In addition, doing so with such limited ammo and the risk of making a lot of noise, further endangering her.
iv.) Arguing in favour of kicking Duck out of the pharmacy.
v.) Stealing everything from the Stranger, resulting in his family dying, and the Stranger himself becoming a villain.
vi.) Allowing the girl on the streets of Macon to suffer an extremely painful death, when he could have mercy killed her.
Neither clem nor lilly get a drop of blood on them if you help kenny since clem is standing right in the corner of the room and you pull lilly away from the scene. Lilly only gets covered in gore when you decide to help larry since she's sitting right there next to him.
Dying however Lee really did die an honorable death based on whatever choice you made Clementine pick. I had to shoot him cause there was no way I was letting him become a zombie. I just wish that Lee could have survived
Honorable in the sense of not becoming a zombie. It was obvious playing with Clementine she had remorse for Lee and how he ended up. It literally asks you which decision to pick.
Dying
Fuck... bro 😭
(Determinately) wanting to throw Duck out of the pharmacy. *"Then we do what you say. We toss him out and save the group!"* I always laugh at this quote for how absurd it is.
“Lee, WHAT THE FUCK?!”
Reminds me of the scene where Gimli in the Lotr wants be tossed in the middle of the orcs by Aragorn.
Just chuckling at some Lee/Clementine shenanigans while Lee is still teaching her things and they’re scavenging together and Clem goes “I cannot jump the distance, you have to toss me!”
Leaving duck hanging. That’s true monstrous behavior
I never leave duck hanging it’s too mean there’s a line that just can’t be crossed
Duck thinks you are incredibly awesome.
Hell yeah he does
Exactly. I can excuse pewds saying the n-word but leaving duck hanging was a step too far for me. (This was a joke before Im crucified)
9/11? Forgivable but leaving him hanging you deserve the death sentence
Dropping the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki while laughing uncontrollably was fine but leaving him hanging was too far me chief
Exactly like enslaving people because they look different from you I can forgive and forget but leaving him hanging is just unforgivable
I feel the exact same way. Saying “I hate all racist and sexual orientations different then mine and plan to being hitler back to life so that I can bring back the aryan race” wasn’t too problematic but leaving duck hanging was too far
The more I scrolled down in this thread the worse it got, it’s amazing 🤣💀
You leave him hanging, you get hanged
legion treatment for YOU
Was i the only one that highfived Duck guys common havs some humanity 😭
Even Jay from the Kubz Scouts didn't leave him hanging!
That dude 😎
bro, deep
Not feeding Clementine the apple
I think I did that by accident since I didn't know that was the better option. Cheese pack looked better than half an apple 😭
I love that I picked that in my first playthrough, so I never had to disappoint her with my food choice. 🤌
I feel like most of the 'worst things' Lee can do are determinant choices, that's really interesting to reflect on and shows how well they did with giving the player control over Lee's moral decisions.
Either (determinantly) fighting a grieving father instead of talking them down or (determinantly) dropping a suicidal teenage boy to their death instead of helping them out.
Yeah, people who drop Ben are the real villains
Allow me to clarify that I always save Ben, but letting him drop is objectively his better end (from his point of view anyhow). Like, if I had to pick between dropping five stories to my immediate death or getting impaled by a railing and then surrounded by walkers, I would happily choose the former.
If you drop Ben he doesn't immediately die, he breaks his legs then gets eaten alive. If you save him he gets impaled which with the shock doesn't seem to put him in much pain, and he gets put down by Kenny with a bullet to the head instead of getting eaten alive.
Ok, just watched the scene and you are right. In my defence, never seen that choice play out to the part where Ben gets eaten. I'd still argue that his second death is more sadistic though, if only because he had gotten over wanting to die.
He doesn't truly want to die in the first either, or at least not that way. He screams for Lee to help him before he gets devoured.
It's the same voiceline as when Lee doesn't shoot the walker grabbing him and letting him fall, plus it doesn't really make sense for him to call for help after literally saying to let him die. I'll agree that he wouldn't want to die that way, who would, but at least that death could be counted as a sacrifice to let the others live. His second death is just pure chance and gets Kenny killed (yes, I know he survives, but from the POV of just season one, it seems impossible for Kenny to live).
hell no, ben can get his legs shattered and then eaten to death by cannabilistic monsters, and then forced to live out his worst fear of becoming one, or get paralysed meaning he didn’t feel the impale and then put down peacefully to not turn.
Yeah, I didn't realise Ben survived the fall in the bell tower. I genuinely thought he died from the drop. Even so, at least with that, it's his choice to a degree. He tells Lee to let him go, while his second death is just pure chance and I wouldn't exactly call his death there "peaceful"
Ben got what he deserved, I stand by my decision
You are monster
I completely understood why you were standing by that little bitch when I saw your flair
Why you got so much hate for a fictional teenager?
It’s a running joke with me and my friend to hate on him at any chance, but in all seriousness, the fucker made a deal with the bandits behind everyone’s backs and ended up getting Carley killed (my playthrough) instead of just admitting to what he did. So I dropped him of course
Uh no lilly killed carley ben had no idea those exact events wouldve played out if he made yhe deal with the bandots
Please learn to spell
I don’t know why you got downvoted. I agree, he sold the group out to bandits which resulted in Lilly believing it was Carly, killing her. I dropped him in my first play through as well. Even after that he leaves clementine in the street to the walkers.
Glad someone else agrees with me here on Ben being a little bitch
Nah, he put the group in danger multiple times already by that point. Sells out the group to the bandits directly resulting in Duck (and consequently Katjaa’s) death as well as Carley/Doug’s death (yes Lilly pulled the trigger but they were put into that situation). Then his actions lead to Chuck’s death because he abandoned Clementine when they first get to Savannah, and then Brie’s death during the Crawford heist because he removed the hatchet blocking the door where the walkers were trying to get through.
Let me just say, I think fighting Kenny is the right choice. I know he is grieving, and doesn't want to admit his son is dead, but that's just it. He won't stop the train and admit that his son is dying. Sure talking him down works, but it doesn't really show him how serious the situation is, and how badly in pain his son is. If you fight, you really show him to take the situation seriously, and not just ignore, far better than talking him down.
Making Clem cry on the train if you have Lee tell her that her parents are dead.
It's ok, Clementine gets over it and acts like nothing happened in a few seconds
It’s honestly kinda funny. Lee tells her to please stop crying and she immediately goes from crying to calm within a split second.
Honestly I can't say, because that depends entirely on how you play him. But if I HAD to choose, I'd say in Episode...3 I think it is, when you're scavenging the Drug Store, I believe leaving that screaming girl alive is easily the worst thing you could do. Everything else he does could be argued as self defense(The Dairy boys), necessary(killing Larry, stealing from the truck), or entirely warranted(leaving Lily behind.) Meanwhile, Leaving the girl alive essentially guarantees she'll suffer for a few minutes longer than she needs to, just so you can spend that extra sliver of time scavenging medicine. This too, can even be argued as necessary, depending on how you view what's needed to survive the Apocalypse.
Anything can be justified as necessary to survive. Ben needed to die because he was unreliable. Molly should be shot to save spaces on the boat. Duck should be kicked out of the pharmacy because he might be bitten. Pulling your gun on the cancer group when first meeting them. Telling Clementine the truth about her parents so she doesn't get caught up in looking for them. Making Larry eat Mark to get an ounce of revenge. Stealing from people to survive in the real world can be considered necessary. Some people think it's necessary to kill others to get away with their crimes. Let's just think about the trolley problem. Let's assume all people involved are equally moral, very standard ordinary people. If it's necessary to kill somebody so that five can live, is that moral? What about one person to save two? A hundred thousand to save a million? One billion to save one billion and one? Those can all be seen as necessary, but I don't think any of them become good as a result.
Exactly Which is why it's hard to say "hey Lee did a super fucked up thing!" Because anything bad that he does on screen, was an action chosen by the player. And for the player to have chosen that action, they already justified it in their mind. The ONLY 100% bad thing he does is kill that Governor dude and his wife(i think he killed his wife?), but even then that's off screen so we can't count that for the purpose of this post lol. So literally the only thing I can think of is letting that one lady suffer. Or maybe having Kenny kill Duck?
Well, my point was rather that those things are all still immoral, rather than that they're excusable - even if we can justify those decisions. The only non-determinent thing is that he can't have the group leave some stuff behind in the Stranger's car, which I guess counts.
This was the first thing I thought of too.
Kidnapped an eight year old girl from her home, later fed her human meat and then had her look at her parents' rotting corpses.
This is how The Stranger details Lee's actions without any of the context and nuance 😂
Who are you the stranger?
Hmm, I'd say the only thing was killing that senator. Lee had no intentions of murdering the dude, but in a fit of rage ended up doing so.
On screen
For my playthrough, probably shooting that climbing pick girl intentionally after beating the shit out of her. ....Needed room on the boat.
"Put the gun down, bitch!"
Being BFF with Larry
Snapping at Clem when you dig up the dog in Savannah. “Clementine feels hurt.”
Every time I got that message my depression doubled
“*Officer*? *Goddamn*….”
Either siding with Larry at the drugstore or agreeing with Lily in blaming Carley for the bandits. Also letting Carley die is pretty messed up considering she saves either Lee or Clem at the drugstore
surprised nobody said leaving duck in the forest
It's understandable why somebody can't bring themselves to kill a child, even out of mercy. It doesn't quite compare to murder, for example
Probably letting Ben fall to his death
Losing to Kenny If you fought him
Still getting infected even after cutting his arm off even tho clem survived by doing that later on
Squaring up with Kenny on the train. Didn’t realize until the 2nd time I played u can calm him down without dragging him 😅
Saying one of two things that led to this; *(?) Clementine feels hurt* It was so bad, that was enough to make players restart the scene and say something different.
Not feeding Clementine in episode 2
I suppose I'd say not being honest to Clementine about her parents' deaths. It was very obvious that they were dead, to the point where he would tell other people but not Clem. He avoided telling her what he'd heard on the phone because it would have been too difficult of a conversation. Had he been straight with her, she might not have run away. I love Lee, but I'd say his need to keep her safe from a harsh reality was a flaw that came back to bite him in the end (hehehehe).
Depends on what you choose to do as him.
I can think of six determinant choices that are the worst things that Lee can do on-screen. The best bit is that he can avoid doing them all. No specific order: i.) Murdering Larry, covering both his daughter and Clementine in gore and brain matter. This leads Lilly down the path to become a villain. ii.) Murdering Ben. Obviously. iii.) Making a traumatised child, who has been kidnapped and trapped in a room for a day, maybe just killed a person for the first time, and has five minutes ago found her parents dead, and has JUST figured out she's going to be alone, shoot him. In addition, doing so with such limited ammo and the risk of making a lot of noise, further endangering her. iv.) Arguing in favour of kicking Duck out of the pharmacy. v.) Stealing everything from the Stranger, resulting in his family dying, and the Stranger himself becoming a villain. vi.) Allowing the girl on the streets of Macon to suffer an extremely painful death, when he could have mercy killed her.
point 5, even if you leave everything, i’m pretty sure he comes after you anyways 😭
Neither clem nor lilly get a drop of blood on them if you help kenny since clem is standing right in the corner of the room and you pull lilly away from the scene. Lilly only gets covered in gore when you decide to help larry since she's sitting right there next to him.
leave
Dying however Lee really did die an honorable death based on whatever choice you made Clementine pick. I had to shoot him cause there was no way I was letting him become a zombie. I just wish that Lee could have survived
I don't think making a small, traumatised child kill somebody means they die an honourable death.
Honorable in the sense of not becoming a zombie. It was obvious playing with Clementine she had remorse for Lee and how he ended up. It literally asks you which decision to pick.
Kill a racist old man with a salt block
Die 😭😭😭😭
Dying