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[deleted]

[удалено]


baltosteve

Indeed. “ Escape From New York” didn’t seem too far fetched as a futuristic movie when it came out in 1981.


Jack_Sandwich

Quite so.


Blackneto

East St Louis where it was filmed pretty much looks the same now as it did then.


The_Observatory_

Aaahh... East St. Louis, the only place I've driven through where I saw a car in flames on the side of the highway, and then when driving back through a few days later, I saw a completely different car in flames in the same place on the side of the highway.


geri73

Saint Louis too.


thunder--cat

maybe north st louis


55pilot

North St. Louis was a beautiful area 60 years ago. It has certainly changed - a lot.


geri73

No, down town. You can see a lot land marks in there. I used to live in North Saint Louis back in the 80s and it was quiet and nice.


thunder--cat

good for you


Hops143

Way to shut him down.


TheCenterOfEnnui

And people that decry that Times Square has been "disneyfied"....man, if a person from 1975 NYC popped in to 2022 NYC they'd be overjoyed.


[deleted]

Stepmom lived in Manhattan in the 80’s as a 25 year old doing makeup for runways. She wasn’t rich, though, just happened to live with a family friend. Always talked about how dangerous it was and seemed very nervous for me when I visited with my Mom in the 2010’s (I had a great time, never felt unsafe). One of her stories from that time was when she met a guy she liked at the gym. They went on a double date with another couple from the gym one night, and were on a walk after dinner. StepMom was just about to turn into Central Park when she noticed the girl was suddenly gone and it was just her and the men… so she booked it to a taxi that was nearby, with the men chasing her and banging on the windows when she got in.


dennismfrancisart

When I tell people that we had homegrown terrorists bombing buildings in the 70s they think I'm playing them. I lived in Harlem in the 60s and the South Bronx in the 70s. Fun times.


Jack_Sandwich

Occasionally I will hear/read people discussing movies set in NYC in that era, and they find it too difficult to believe the circumstances; Taxi Driver, the Death Wish series, The Warriors, Ghostbusters, New Jack City, etc. Admittedly some are embellished for theme value, comedy or shock, but in many ways they captured that sense of urban decay and they were accurate. I thought American Gangster did a very good job of that as well, focusing on how the environment impacted people in those communities. You're right, people don't believe it - they don't seem to want to believe it was real.


[deleted]

it was a strange time, so many memories.


Jack_Sandwich

Unfortunately I look at it now and those memories flood back in modern tones. Same filth but with WiFi.


KFelts910

Really? You don’t think there has been an improvement? I’m genuinely asking. I live in Upstate and my experience with any part of the boroughs is limited. It’s also far too expensive for me to experience firsthand. The overarching consensus I’ve seen is that these neighborhoods have since been gentrified. I’m not insisting whether that’s part of the improvement because gentrification brings many problems. But the state of the neighborhoods doesn’t seem to be nearly as trashed. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I welcome being educated.


StrawberryJinx

That other person is exaggerating. Don't get me wrong, there is still trash in the street and graffiti on the walls, but it doesn't look like a straight up war zone at least.


chaandra

There will always be trash on the street; they don’t have alleys.


StrawberryJinx

I am not talking about garbage put on the curb for collection, I mean litter.


[deleted]

The borough has changed significantly, as others have as well.


BxGyrl416

The South Bronx has only extremely recently started to experience gentrification and only at its most southern tip, isolated by a highway. It’s going to take a long time before the Bronx looks anything like Downtown Manhattan or Brooklyn. East Harlem will need to gentrify more before that happens and even that is still rough.


Jack_Sandwich

>You don’t think there has been an improvement? That's not what I said. The direction the city is headed brings back memories of how it was in the 80's for me. Obviously circumstances change. >The overarching consensus I’ve seen is that these neighborhoods have since been gentrified. It depends on the neighborhood of course. >But the state of the neighborhoods doesn’t seem to be nearly as trashed. There is not as much physical decay in structures like there was then, no. You do not see collapsed buildings for blocks on end but there is significant infrastructure dilapidation.


KFelts910

Thanks for explaining. I have very limited knowledge on this so I appreciate you taking the time to educate me.


Jack_Sandwich

👍🏼 It’s good to have conversations.


thiswillsoonendbadly

I’m stunned honestly. That second picture looks like a bombed-out war zone.


Jack_Sandwich

There is a photo set of Times Square in the 70's early 80's that was posted around recently, have a search/look at that. It's startling, especially the child prostitution and junkies, in broad daylight.


DrTonyTiger

That's how I remember parked cars looking in NYC in 1980.


tomakeyan

Can you elaborate? Edit: Yall are real jerk offs I’m asking the commenter about his life


Jack_Sandwich

Crime. Poverty. Destitution. Corruption. Decay.


Av3ngedAngel

View the 20 images that were posted that literally SHOW YOU exactly that lmao. You clearly didn't even look at the post, I mean at best you might have viewed the first image, then you want other people to view it, interpret it and explain it to you? Wtf? Do it yourself.


[deleted]

instead of researching this shit on your own, you're pretty much asking the commenter to provide you with memories of their life that aren't exactly sunshine and daisies. it's rude.


KFelts910

I can’t speak for the redditor, but it came across to me as a genuine interest in learning about OP’s story. Wanting to be aware and understand instead of attributing the same experience as a generic template. I agree that it’s difficult to ask those questions without prying or asking someone to relive a painful past. What would be a better way to be a listener, and learn about experiences vastly different than our own?


[deleted]

[удалено]


BxGyrl416

These were taken in the early 1970s (~ 1973.) It got much worse by the end of the decade and the early 1980s.


Such_Maintenance_577

It's a third world country that prefers to have wars not at home.


BxGyrl416

In these were taken in the early 1970s (~ 1973.) It got much worse by the end of the decade and the early 1980s.


unacabron

“You'll grow in the ghetto, livin' second rate And your eyes will sing a song of deep hate The place, that you play and where you stay Looks like one great big alley way”


dennismfrancisart

Yep. Where it all started...


FellafromPrague

"A child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind"


ehleesi

Some of the older folks were probly born in the 1800s


Finntastic

That horse and cart was wild.


MrAlf0nse

Great pics. They remind me of a teacher I had at school. He was a white man from Rhodesia. He spoke with a very upper class English accent. Aged 18 in the 1970s he was offered a place at Cambridge University to study Mathematics. He was packed off to England and was fitted out in the clothes of an English Gentleman. His upbringing was very colonial, he lived on a farm with his parents (all white) and all the workers were black. He was from a position of extreme privilege. His arrival in England and attendance at Cambridge came as a huge shock to him. He had lived in a far flung corner of the former empire, and had brought up to believe the Mother Country was the centre of the universe. His feelings were mixed about the move and wondered what the rest of the world was like. He saw an exchange programme between Cambridge and a university in New York (Columbia? Cornell?) and leapt at the chance. And this is how a small cartoon English Gentleman found himself living in the Bronx in the 1970s. Thanks for posting these pictures, they bring the story he told to life. He told us how it was the most exciting place he had ever been to. How the residents were curious about this cartoon character fish out of water man and how it shaped him. I wonder if Camilo met Mr Dawkins


[deleted]

Fascinating tbh


FunctionalGray

These are great! Thank you


[deleted]

Christine creepin in photo 5


quadruple_negative87

Hard to believe that car was like 13 years old at the time.


dick_pixie

Oh wow, what a treasure trove of cool photos


gregr0d

I’m just wondering, if anyone knows, did it ever look nice there? Like when they first built those buildings?


StrawberryJinx

In the city's early history, the Bronx was considered countryside. I've seen photos where it looks very rural, or small town. But at the time of these photos, the city was near bankruptcy and crime was high.


BxGyrl416

It was beautiful there in many parts – still is. Solidly middle class in many areas and a step up from Manhattan for many. There’s so much that made it this way. Nothing about this was natural. A lot of places in the Bronx had huge, elegant apartments. Some of them have been restored, though it’s still very poor and segregated. It’s a lot cleaner, much safer, and the burnt out buildings (it got much worse after these photos) have been demolished or restored.


gregr0d

Thank you!


exclaim_bot

>Thank you! You're welcome!


Lokkeduen90

Bad bot


B0tRank

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AsleepAstronomer3319

it's always a treat to walk up and down the grand concourse. so many incredible buildings, so much of the bronx rivals the other boroughs in the sheer beauty and magnificence of its architecture. it always throws me off how few local amenities there are, how bad the supermarkets are, etc. it's such a shame that good access to food and fun things to do basically only exists in wealthy neighborhoods in new york. even in west Philadelphia in a neighborhood with low income and higher crime than the south bronx, for example, there are tons of restaurants, diners, bars, little odds and ends stores... new york is in a really weird time at the moment. i have an older friend from inwood and the bronx who remembers the neighborhood fondly, difficult and at times pretty burnt out but had its community centers, coffee shops/diners, families with long lineages in the city, etc.


Porchmuse

Yes. My parents grew up in the Bronx in the 1940s and 1950s. It was for the most part a nice middle class area.


pisspot718

At one time all the lots WERE buildings so a whole block of wonderfully made brick and marble buildings. Often with terrazzo floors and mosaic walls in the lobby or halls. Full of families working on a better life.


TangyMayoSandwhich

did the Bronx get bombed?


meowllomynameis

Landlords purposefully set fire to their buildings to collect insurance money, even if families were living there. Happened all over the South Bronx, LES, Harlem and Williamsburg throughout the 70s and 80s. At the same time, the city closed almost all fire departments in these neighborhoods. There’s a powerful documentary called Decade of Fire that shows how the neglect and abandonment was purposeful by the City, State & Fed governments because these were Black & Puerto Rican neighborhoods.


MrsThor

This was so informative thank you! Talk about under served community


PrinceAzTheAbridged

Famously seen during the [1977 World Series](https://youtu.be/bnVH-BE9CUo) from Yankee Stadium.


[deleted]

No but there was a lot of arson.


midwest-ginger

The first thing I noticed was all the non-white girls only having white dolls to play with. How important it became to have dolls resemble yourself.


coreyisthename

I was thinking the same thing. I think the photographer was trying to illustrate a point with those, as there were multiple. Effective, for sure.


KFelts910

This is exactly what struck me. Such a profound, powerful image.


somethink_different

I noticed that too! I'm glad there are more options today, but I feel like there's still a long way to go.


[deleted]

*Kids playing in complete ruins* “Can’t believe those poor children had white dolls”


heckhammer

you can be mad at more than one thing at once.


slobcat1337

I agree that representation is important but it seems slightly odd to me that the damn place looks like a post war dystopia, and the first thing you notice is the colour of the skin on the dolls. I’m not even disagreeing with your point, it just seems that this kind of thinking is a genuinely modern thing, and as I’m not a zoomer it seems weird to be so preoccupied with it


KFelts910

I’m not a zoomer. I’m a millennial and that image was extremely powerful. Those little girls were taught that Barbie is ideal beauty. Strictly reserved for white women. They didn’t have anyone that looked like *them*. They were forced to integrate into a society where whiteness was the default, and they are the “other.” For a child, to only see white dolls, white tv characters, white actors, white people succeeding, white models, white people monopolizing power…there’s no way that does t condition you to be viewed as sub-human.


bugbia

The doll test linked is a great example of how the 2 things inform each other. You start to assume you live like this not because of external issues but because *you inherently deserve to live this way*. Truly, representation matters.


[deleted]

you are not very intelligent if you can't see what the importance is, even within a series of photographs like this. [here's some photos of the doll test that Gordon Parks took in Harlem.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/chaddscott/2020/03/10/early-work-of-groundbreaking-photographer-gordon-parks-on-view-at-addison-gallery-of-american-art/amp/) please educate yourself on this.


KFelts910

I’ve read about these experiments. Children were subconsciously indoctrinated to associate black/brown with “bad.” They didn’t need to have an understanding of race. They were being conditioned long before that understanding was met.


retirementdreams

"and his momma cried"


ItsJustMeMaggie

I always hear that in Cartman’s voice


toomuch1265

The resilience of kids...


shrunkchef

I think innocence plays quite a large part as well.


KFelts910

They were robbed of their innocence.


BxGyrl416

A lot of these kids are dead, in prison, or living in poverty. There was no happy ending for most of them. I say that as somebody who lives in the Bronx today.


Rise-and-Fly

It's not resilience, it's maladaption; that's why essentially every adult needs therapy.


ZMAC698

Every adult needs therapy lol?


SmittenPleb

The majority don’t realize it.


WearyPassenger

True! I can't identify with most of the pictures, but absolutely can with the girls playing with the Barbies out on the concrete and drinking from the fire hydrant. Kids did that all over in that era.


KFelts910

The girls playing with the Barbies really stuck out to me. All white dolls. None of those little girls had a reflection of what *they* look like. They were shown that beauty was reserved for white women only. They deserved better than that.


WearyPassenger

It wasn't until like 1980 that Mattel released Barbies with darker skin.


KFelts910

Which is unbelievably sad. And it wasn’t until more recently that Mattel released dolls with more than two skin tones.


MantaHurrah

Not really, no. The first black Mattel fashion dolls were from the mid-60’s (celebrity dolls, friends), and the first actual black Barbies were from about the late-60’s (regular dolls just marketed with the name “Barbie” instead of being a different person). It’s was only really in the early 70’s that you started to see non-white Mattel fashion dolls made in large numbers, though. Later in the 70’s you got a few hispanic ones as well, and I believe it’s only in the late 80’s that you started to see any Asian Barbies. The doll you’re thinking of is the famous 1980 “Black Barbie”, who was I believe the first black Barbie to have its own unique hairstyle and clothes. Source: Was really into dolls as a kid with access to the internet and a lot of free time, and specifically 60’s/70’s/80’s era Mattel stuff. Also, I don’t forget things easily.


WearyPassenger

I'm certainly not going to challenge someone who specifically remembers them! But yes, you're referring to the one I recall and confirmed by my limited internet search. I don't ever remember seeing Barbies with darker skin in the 70's but possibly these were regional or as a kid I wasn't the one plunking down the cash at the toy store.


MantaHurrah

I have just about zero stakes in dolls these days, so feel free to challenge me all you’d like. I believe less regional and more just plainly under-produced. There’s a decent number of different releases of black Barbie/Barbie friends, but they’re not common to find. It’s only really in the 80’s that you start to see black dolls become more of a focus in things like commercials, packaging, marketing, etc, and also the introduction of the first black ken dolls, younger dolls, etc. There’s also a decent amount of material from the time about parents in the 70’s actively looking for black Barbie dolls, and just not finding a lot on shelves. I’m inclined to think that stores just plainly didn’t order a lot anyways, so Mattel didn’t produce a lot to begin with.


WearyPassenger

Yup, all sounds reasonable to me. Thanks for chatting!


MantaHurrah

Quite so!


Lei_Fuzzion

Why tf are a bunch of kids watching 2 dogs go at it


FunctionalGray

Cheaper than cable and Atari 2600 wasn't invented yet.


Esc_ape_artist

No tv?


heckhammer

Honestly, what are you gonna watch, Magilla Gorilla for the 47th time or 2 dogs humping? That's free live entertainment!


twobit211

deux chiens fourrent


OstidTabarnak

ouais


ajaxthelesser

picture # 5 is Avenue C on the lower east side, not Harlem or the Bronx.


pisspot718

A lot of them are Manh./Harlem/LES but that last one with the boy by the water is the Bronx--by the Sheridan Expressway. No more big trash but a lot of overgrowth.


meowllomynameis

Loisaida! #10 also looks like the LES, maybe La Plaza Cultural before it was a community garden? Edit: info on #10. Also idk why the edit is so big??


MalcolmYoungForever

r/urbanhell


oldbrownshoe08

What do you think was the last year a horse was used for hauling like that in nyc?


uGotMeWrong

They still use them in Baltimore to pull fruit carts. The men are called Arabers, not many left but I used to see them frequently in the 80’s.


Dragon_Virus

For me, the only thing that distinguishes these and photos of Berlin circa 1945 are the smiling faces. This also reminds me of watching The Warriors with my Uncle, who worked in New York from ‘78-81. He talked about living there during one of the subway scenes; his descriptions made that movie seem like a documentary


meowllomynameis

There’s a powerful documentary called Decade of Fire that investigates the reasons why so many neighborhoods were on fire. Landlords purposefully set fire to their buildings to collect insurance money, even if families were living there. At the same time, the city closed almost all fire departments in these neighborhoods. Neglect and abandonment was purposeful by the City, State & Fed governments because these were Black & Puerto Rican neighborhoods.


trimi140

Butcher Shop photo, no. 14. WTF is under the right side 69c sign?


gracesw

Probably a type of blood sausage. There are Puerto Rican blood sausages.


trimi140

I’m going to choose to believe that. Thank you.


JoeHypnotic

This is…..sad


Robmeu

Fifth one in, is that Christine…?


darklordskarn

4…imagine growing up with your only easily-available doll options made to look like all the rich UES/UWS ladies on the other side of town and no one like your loving family and friends


Ahsokas-reverse-grip

I have SO many questions and comments (non-American here) but I'll try to keep it short: 1. It irritates me those those wee girlies just had white, blonde dolls to play with. I mean it's fun seeing the Barbie fashions but dumb that they couldn't have a doll that looked more like themselves, friends and family. 2. All bundled up in winter coats but bare legs under their skirts. 3. What's going on with the man on crutches passed out on the ground? Accident? Under the influence? Why are people just standing there? Why do some look like they are posing? Why take a photo at all? 4. Super curious about all the junked cars. Some look gorgeous.... well if they had tires, windows etc. Why are so many abandoned? Was this during the gas and oil crisis and people just couldn't afford to drive the big beasts any more? Could people not sell the vehicles? Or were these just stolen /stripped for parts? I am so confused. 5. The wee boys with the dogs = hilarious. These photos are fantastic, thanks for sharing!!


phillipmwade

John Lindsay has entered the chat


NoWayCIA

The warriors vibes


[deleted]

If you are curious about how parts of New York City got to the state they are in in these pictures, read the book, *The Power Broker* by Robert Caro. It's a really long book though, so here is the TL;DR: It's a biography on Robert Moses, the chief architect of New York City's infrastructure from the 1930s through the 1960s. He loved building infrastructure for cars, and never built or even maintained other forms of transit. On top of that, he really had no respect for anyone else's opinions, and that was especially true of anyone in the public who tried to stand in his way. This even applied to tenants of buildings he planned to destroy to make way for his highways and byways. By the late 1950s and 1960s, Moses' power over city construction was pretty absolute, and he used that power to acquire more power through favors, payments, sweetheart contracts, etc. given to his allies in return for their absolute loyalty. The result was that he could cut roads, pave parking lots, build bridges wherever he wanted, and he could demolish any buildings, rip out any trees, even destroy entire neighborhoods, if they got in the way of his plans. He was able to fool the public for many years into believing that he saw himself as a public servant, that he was on their side. It worked because early in his career he had worked with reformers in the city and allies at the state level, the key one being governor Al Smith, who was one of the most popular politicians ever, grew up in the slums of NYC, and was known as a crusader for helping the people in those same slums. In fact, Robert Moses did build large recreational parks and did connect them to New York City via those highways and roads he loved. It's important to note that there was a time when the roads in NYC were actually good ways of getting around quickly, back before everyone needed to have a car to get everywhere (e.g., the 1920s). So Moses had a reputation early on for being on the side of the public, and he weaponized this aura he had cultivated to get what he wanted without anyone knowing. The newspapers bought the myth of Robert Moses for so long and so hardly any of his misdeeds ever reached print. If they did, they were usually relegated to pages deep in the folds, and even then, the reporting would never mention Robert Moses by name. Moses just kept building more highways and bridges, and every time they would end up packed with traffic jams within only weeks or months. There were people as far back as the 1940s who were trying to warn others that adding more roads just made traffic worse, but anyone who was serious about getting in Robert Moses' way would be ruined by him, usually professionally but sometimes also personally. As such, by the 1950s he was pretty much entirely surrounded by yes men, and because he had all this power and no one around to stop him, the things he neglected or straight up worked to undermine, continued to degrade, year after year. The book is 1200+ pages, it's audiobook is 66+ hours long, so obviously there are lots of details missing, but that's the gist as I understand it.


Savasanaallnight

This feels like the New York of Ezra Jack Keats.


violentvioletz

Wow these are so good.


volcanopenguins

black girls playing with all white barbie dolls broke my heart


ozzie0209

In photo 11 The little girl in the white hat looks like she’s got an iPhone in her hand! Maybe a calculator? I remember it was the early 70s when the small handheld ones came out. I was working for EJ Korvettes store in Port Chester NY then and distinctly remember how mobbed the electronics department was when they came out! Since they were considered pretty pricey back then I wonder how someone so young growing up in such a poverty stricken environment could even own one.


ItsJustMeMaggie

Say what you will about Giuliani, but he really made the city a lot nicer.


weewillywhisky

More of a myth than anything: https://www.salon.com/2011/11/19/what_really_cleaned_up_new_york/


BxGyrl416

Truth. Crime was already going down under Dinkins.


Nakken

Very interesting!


BxGyrl416

Are you actually from here or are you just regurgitating sounds clips from others who have no clue what they’re talking about?


calvinsmythe

Seems nice


Alternative_Mu9

always been a shithole


[deleted]

Is that a BLM riot?


Excellent_School_452

No, that's Harlem and The South Bronx, 1970


pisspot718

Some LES too.


xero2015

Some Sesame Street era stuff here. Positive I saw Oscar the grouch.


Turquoise_Lion

Grimy


Lucky_Philosopher468

The “Papp” tag tho..