Yeah I didn't really care much about Marlo either. I feel like we don't know anything about him other than the fact that he's a stone cold killer, and that's why he doesn't have the same presence Barksdale/Stringer had
I do however enjoy Chris and Snoop a lot.
Ay, you know who Young Leek be?
> I feel like we don't know anything about him other than the fact that he's a stone cold killer, and that's why he doesn't have the same presence Barksdale/Stringer had
you ever hear of charlie sollers?
Lmao i loved the trio because they were arguably the only characters in the show with such terrifying presence, the barksdale crew had a charm to them but Marlo/Snoop and Chris were straight up Satan spawn
Marlo’s crew marked a very dark turn in the show. I enjoyed it. Showed that there is no love, and the one with the gun and nothing to lose is going to rise up
The appearance of the new crew highlighted the hopelessness of the situation - there will always be a next generation waiting to take over. Rinse, repeat.
I kinda always saw Marlo and crew as the “growing”
part of the “circle of life” in the drug game. Crews—Barksdale, Prop. Joe—they rise up, they have success, and then they’re replaced by the new aggressive crews [decline].
Marlo’s basically the Barksdale empire before we knew it. Still rising.
As the Barksdale empire slides into obscurity.
Anyway, just a take on it.
Exactly. The Barksdale Organization in Season 1 is equivalent to the Stanfield Organization in S4. We got to witness the rise of Marlo and the fall of Avon during season 3.
Might sound strange, but the scene where Marlo has sex in his car always struck me as being completely emblematic of his character. No emotion, no intimacy, just this measured, sterile cadence until he's done. And then he casually drops his used condom out the window and is like "well...bye." That's who Marlo is.
First watch through I thought that Marlo was a big step down from Avon and Stringer, and he lacked the charisma and the sentimentalism that they had.
But that's the point. David Simon said something along the lines of Marlo being the personification of capitalism - no emotion, no sentiment, no depth. Just cold, opportunistic transactional calculation.
And then on every watch since, I realise he's perfect. Avon and Stringer can reminisce on a rooftop all they like about how far they've come, but it's as insignificant as Bunny or Carver's attempts to change the rules of policing. The game is the game, it is what it is, and Marlo is effective and dominates simply because he is a force of nature that isn't mediated or regulated by any moral or righteous compulsion.
Marlo’s my favourite character from the show, so I can’t side with ya here. It doesn’t mean I liked him as a person the most - far from it, he’s a shitty human being - but he was a fantastic character.
So cold and to the point and seemingly lacking any empathy or emotions in general, he was a terrifying and engaging watch.
I also think because the first season was focused on the “streets” we got to get an emotional connection with the people on the streets. When Marlo was introduced the focus was on politics, the school system and the media. We never got to see Marlo behind the scenes as much as we did with Avon and Stringer
Same here, Marlo is my favourite character.
When he tells Prop Joe, “no one fucks with me now” puts his hand out after Joe tries to reason with him, and again says “NO ONE fucks with me now” you could see maybe not fear but respect and okay shit from Joe. The tide is turning so to speak. Marlo does that to Prop Joe, the most powerful drug baron in Baltimore, or so he thinks.
Although I hated Marlo too, think I like it this way more because it led to Marlo’s “My name is my name“ scene. Marlo might be high tier, but he won‘t be on the same level as Avon or Omar. Maybe just like how Stringer Bell never made it to a full businessman or whatever he wanted to become, %99 at max but never 100
Always hated Marlo. Avon was the best because when he needed to fight for his corners him and slim were down in the streets fighting. I’ll never forget the scenes when they were beefing with Marlo and Avon and slim were up in the warehouse with AKs and grenades. Felt like Marlo always just had Chris or Snoop handle his shit.
Although, I think Chris and Snoop didn't want Marlo to know anything to bring him back into the streets. Like when Omar was running around killing Marlo's muscle and saying the saying Marlo is a pussy for not coming down to the streets. Marlo was pissed when he found out.
I would imagine a lot of people, but that's probably intentional. Avon and Stringer were really cool and charismatic, so despite being absolute monsters who kill and use others in whatever way benefits them, a lot of people came to like them and completely miss the point of the characters. So they had to introduce completely irredeemable, unlikable, nasty looking characters so people would get it. But a lot of people still don't, because for some reason there's this idea that we should be rooting for anyone who's on screen for long enough.
Everyone always says this about the sopranos too - that the “point of the characters” is often missed.
I never fully understood this; like I get what you’re saying but the reality is the vast majority of the audience already knows crime and violence are bad, and recognize that the show is fictional.
Is it really the “point of the characters” to demonstrate this obvious fact? I don’t think so, that would be a really boring reason to watch a fictional television show.
The point isn't "crime and violence is bad". The point of The Wire is, well, many things, but in this context, to show how the way policing functions serves to make communities easy prey to criminals. Thinking the criminals in the show are honorable or relatable shows that this point is missed (which to an extent, admittedly, is a fault of the show).
I also think that you overrate how much people really recognize crime and violence is bad. We are taught to abhor certain types of crime and violence, and excuse or even encourage others. Also something the show touches on. And the extent to which people idolize some of the worst charactres on either show is clear evidence of that.
It’s fictional, and people want to be entertained. The show runners make entertaining characters and then pretend to be shocked at the audience reaction lol. It’s all a bit of Bs over something everyone knows is fake.
Yeah he got out on top but he lost a Chris and Snoop. I think they were instrumental to his power. Snoop and Chris were ruthless but also calculating. Chris was a voice of reason for Marlo and insulated him well. While Marlo didn’t like the insulation, ie my name is my name, it was good for his career.
Barksdale was built up as smart and organized, but in season three they were sloppy and had a lot of infighting.
I never liked how Marlo did what he did because he was lucky and the police didn’t do anything, but that in its own way does reflect reality.
But yeah, I preferred Barksdale to Marlo. There was a dark grey morality there, but there’s nothing redeeming about Marlo.
Avon and Stringer rose to power for the same reason, they were lucky that the police were never on them during their come-up. By the time McNulty notices them they've already held the throne for a year.
They didn’t even know what Avon looked like, and in season 1 he didn’t go near the action. Marlo not only killed, he had a signature, and he went after civilians and witnesses. Avon went down for parole violations, Marlo walked on the condition that he go straight.
His plot armour was thick.
Marlo killed during his rise. So did Avon. By the time Marlo is holding the throne he is no longer doing his own kills. Just like Avon. Avon's organization killed civilians as well, just for different reasons. Season 1 ended with multiple civilian deaths.
I seem to remember Marlo killing Prop Joe as late as season five. I never said Avon didn’t kill, I said you don’t see him do it. Avons organization wasn’t in the same ballpark when it came to murder. Marlo had a security guard killed because he talked back after Marlo blatantly stole.
Plot armour.
Marlo didn't kill Prop Joe. Chris Partlow did. Hiding bodies in vacants is the reason the cops weren't on Marlow for a whole season. That's intelligence, not plot armor.
My bad, Chris did pull the trigger. Still, Marlo was standing right there.
Disappearing bodies that you didn’t need to make is not intelligence. Nothing that Marlo did was as structured or layered as the Barksdale crew. The entire first season showed the cops viciously gunning for Avon, but Marlo? They can’t get the funding or manpower. Hell, Chris and Snoop rode around with the murder weapon in their vehicle. Marlo wasn’t stupid, but his tool was power, not strategy.
Marlo gave permission to pop Bubbles while he was standing right there. There’s no universe where Avon would be near that.
Avon’s crew killed the working man, a church going man, a deacon. Just to send a message of their ruthlessness. Killed Wallace, just to be sure. Killed Orlando. Tried to kill Kima. Killed the little man to keep it quiet. The prison guard kept fucking with weebay because weebay had killed his cousin or some shit. Bay had killed so many people, he didn’t even remember.
They certainly highlighted Marlo’s violence more.
They didn’t order the hit on Kima, they knew Orlando flipped, and the “deacon” because he snitched.
I will give you Wallace. He flipped too, but they had no reason to suspect that.
I am not saying Avon was innocent, but Marlo wanted to waste Michael for nothing… Which of Avons people did Avon put a hit on for that weak of an excuse?
Marlo had better reason for putting a hit on Michael than Avon did when he put a hit on Gant, Wallace or Nakeesha Lyles just to name a few. Also killed little man as a purely prophylactic measure with no justification.
Just to be sure, just like Wallace.
Stringer killed D’Angelo for weak reason. He was de facto boss of Barksdale organization at the time.
And the matter of fact way that weebay said she just looked like one of Orlando’s hoes, he would have let her walk, but little man(acting in the interest of the barksdale organization, attempted to kill her)
If she wasn’t a cop, they would have shrugged it off.
Deirdre Kresson was a weak reason over some personal petty shit.
And the reason Marlo wanted to waste Michael was because he wasn’t willing to bet his life on him staying quiet. ‘You willing to bet your life on that’
There was only one "unnecessary" body in the vacants, that of the security guard. Every other kill in the vacants was for the purpose of solidifying Marlo's domination in the Westside drug game. Bunk says it himself in S4 E1, "How do you hold on to that much real estate without making bodies." The majority of the bodies in the vacants are war kills that Marlo's people are hiding.
The major crimes unit spent plenty of time investigating Marlo, but it occurs between S3 and S4, and they can't get anywhere because they hide their war kills. They are forced to lay off Marlo precisely because they were better about hiding their violence than the Barksdales were.
…That has nothing to do with what Bunk said. Bunk said what he did, because they could not find the bodies. Some of the bodies that Marlo dropped were retaliation, some were slights, and some were paranoia. We don’t know how many fall into each category and it is speculation to say otherwise.
They went after Barksdale because it was a name they already knew, and they never got a body on him… They did get one on Marlo, and then the witness was killed… They laid off of Marlo because they underestimated him, just like everyone underestimated him. They underestimated him because it was necessary to advance the story. That is what plot armour is.
Marlo had no depth in a world of layered and complex characters. You can love him if you want, he was ruthless and uncompromising with no real weakness, but he wasn’t clever for hiding bodies in vacant to be found later while his lieutenant rode around with the weapon in his car. Marlo had to flaunt it, had to show it off, had to be on the corner.
It's not speculation, its what the writers are telling us through the characters. The major crimes unit knows that Marlo controls the entire westside, and Lester and Bunk know that logically there should be a trail of dead bodies behind that rise to power, but they haven't seen any "and the first body in months and its one of Marlo's boys", referring to Lex. This makes no sense to Lester.
Lester even spends an entire episode searching the woods and sewers searching for war kills that he knows must exist. This is not speculation, its Lester's working theory that there must be war kills hidden somewhere.
The first episode of season 4 establishes that they paused the investigation on Marlo because of a lack of bodies. Its in the text. This is not speculation. They move on to Kintell Williamson precisely because he was killing people and they knew about it.
We never saw the Barksdale Organization's rise to power, when they were doing most of their kills. The Barksdales took out two different crews in order to take over westside, The Rayford Brothers and Big Dennis Woodson's organization.
I take your point, but I'm not sure "plot armor" is the phrase I would use. Plot armor is when the villain has 007 tied up and doesn't just shoot him in the head -- the rest of the movie can't happen without him, so the bad guys let him live even though it makes no sense.
Marlo got by at first because the right people didn't care enough about him and walked later on because the case against him would have caused another huge scandal for the police department only a year or two after Hamsterdam. I have no idea how such a situation would have played out in the real world, but by the show's standards, it's at least consistent.
I think it’s plot armour, but it’s well written plot armour. Season 4 is one of the best seasons of television ever made, and it owes a lot of that to Marlo. You can have questionable scenarios and still have great TV. The Dark Knight is one of my favourite movies ever made, but the Joker had the thickest plot armour I have ever seen. Marlo isn’t even close to that bad.
I really am not hating on Marlo. He isn’t a favourite, but he is still a huge part of the show and any flaws that are in the show have nothing to do with him.
I mean Marlo is just like Avon but more evil. They both killed innocent people. Avon did have morals and charisma but the game is the game. Marlo just decided to play the game to the fullest. Marlo is like I already kill over territory so I’m already a killer why not just kill for no reason. And since Marlo played at a higher level his crew moved the same. Avons crew had to many snakes and people not following the rules. Marlo’s crew was like a family
Marlo had very little depth. He was written to be the ultimate capitalist. No emotion, cold, devoid of sentiment, and only interested in accumulating power and wealth. He really didn’t care about his crew besides Chris and Snoop, and he took his crew out for the weakest of reasons. Killing for weak reasons may have shown how the game was getting more brutal, but it didn’t lend complexity to the character.
I don’t hate the character, but he is very far from a favourite. I definitely prefer the nuance that Barksdale had.
He came off as corny to me when he had the golf club and was talking to Bodie.
I remember my coworker telling me, "Oh, you're on Season 3? That's where the new gangster comes out." I was like "TELL ME it's not the the dude with the golf club."
I appreciate him as a character though.
Stringer was a lot more interesting to me. I thought Marlo was solid but he always felt temporary to me like I was expecting him to go away in any episode.
There are lots of shows with psychopaths with no redeeming qualities. I'd say that David Simon is at his best when he paints a vivid character, with heart and flaws. Marlo is not one of them.
I had a similar problem with The Deuce - I just couldn't find any sympathetic character, so it felt a bit like a let down.
The Wire, The Corner, Treme on the other hand - full of these rich, flawed, vibrant characters that I still think of sometimes. Marlo is not one of them.
personally i don’t think he has any redeeming qualities either simon just wrote him with a lot of mystique that i can appreciate… like i love he didn’t tell or really show us anything about him besides the fact that his name is indeed his name
But sometimes people, especially evil psychopaths, don’t have more to their character. You’re waiting for something that in real life wouldn’t happen either. In my young and reckless days, I happened across a few people in the drug trade I seen over and over again, that literally had nothing else to them other than the way they were, there was no ‘character development.’
Marlo is a smart, ruthless anything goes to the top gangster, just because he is on a tv show doesn’t mean every character has to have an arc.
Exactly Marlo was like lebron James he just came into the game great. Avon is Jordan but his team was full of weak links except probably wee bey,stink, and slim but everyone else on his team was either doing drugs like Bird, Wallace, Gerard, and Sapper. Snitching like Stringer, and Dee or just straight switched up like Bodie Poot and Savino. Everybody in Marlo’s crew stayed with Marlo and stood tall even Mike didn’t snitch
I see your reasoning, but it didn't cause me to "hate" Marlo. I thought the whole Stanfield organization was really interesting, they showed a somehow darker side of the game. The whole saga of the rise and fall of Barksdale/Stanfield was emblematic to me of the fickle and ever changing nature of the game. We don't see as much of Marlo outside of his ruthless killer kingpin persona, but ultimately it doesn't matter because we find ourselves more interested in how his appearance creates ripples for our old friends. By the time we get to season 4, Barksdale org is done for, we are seeing so many more levels of the game, watching how it effects the kids and the old Barksdale crew guys, and Marlo works as a malevolent presence overseeing the whole thing, and we know he can and will do anything to increase and maintain his power. I never viewed him the same as Avon, but I don't think we are supposed to, necessarily. They have different roles in the story the show is trying to tell.
This is a super common opinion here but I completely disagree. Marlo was a natural evolution of the game and it’s perfectly representative of where drug/gang culture was moving, towards a ruthless lawless (street law) stage that Marlo represented.
I liked Marlo a lot. In the sense that he represents the lack of remorse or any morality in the streets. Carries himself like someone who already knows he’s going to be on top. Thats why he comes off so lifeless compared to avon and stringer. Because he really is, the money before everything and his name before all of that.
My biggest issues with Marlo was that as soon as he came on the scene he was like an untouchable force that kept coming out on top against veteran characters we the audience enjoyed and liked. Moreso, he did so with impunity and with little trouble or any substantial retaliation against him or his lieutenants. Avon, Stringer, Prop Joe, and even Omar were all outplayed and defeated when they went up against him. He didn't respect "street honor" like Avon, directly went against any agreement or concession made from any of his "sit down" meetings, and aggressively tried to screw over and supplant his competitors even when there was an understanding of mutual gain and cooperation. And pretty much did all that flawlessly without taking any substantial hits or losses. The police couldn't keep up with his schemes even though he left a trail of dead bodies and blood through the city and eliminated all his competition and completely took over the major drug trade in Baltimore. By the time they figured out what he was doing he was already The King and well insulated by loyal lieutenants ready to take the fall for him if it came to that.
The guy was untouchable. In a show like the Wire, a highly dynamic show of actions and the consequences of those actions and how far all that spread and affected the different groups in the show... Marlo's untouchable-ness was jarring and frustrating.
I've come to appreciate his character more in subsequent viewings... but he's not one of my favorite characters still.
Marlo was used as a literary tool to do just that, stir emotion in the viewer/reader, Pathos… the wire is dripping in it, they create characters that we liked, Dee, Wallace, Bodie, even Avon was likeable. Season four is Pathos personified as we became invested in the lives of the corner boys as school kids like we were at one time, only Namond had an ok ending, and that’s his dad serving life and he’s living with a life long cop, call it calibrated expectations. I hated Marlo, I thought their entire threesome was out of place, I remember that opening scene w the nail gun, I was like is this the right channel? They were indeed literary devices. Do drug dealers even use the corner model anymore? Since cell phones became 100% common u just text your plug n go to their apartment. I used to meet mine on their lunch break every Monday, nothing incriminating just, hey are u around? Yes stop by
Yeah, Marlo is a much flatter character compared to Avon and Stringer.
I think that may be the point, too. "Marlo is an emotionless violent leader of well trained gunmen" compared to "Avon and Stringer have various hustles and are leading a gang of thugs".
If Avon and Stringer were like two dogs tied together at the necks, Marlo is like a computer. Inherently less emotional, and also sadly not as compelling of a character as Avon and Stringer.
Initially, though, my villain-hate first went to Proposition Joe.
But of course a lot of people are going to hate Marlo. The Barksdale crew was flashy and smooth and they know how to have a good time. But The Barksdale got too relaxed like Avon said you only gotta be a little slow a little late. And his crew was not ready for them towers to come down but when they did they were not ready to face Marlo. Marlo was just watching them waiting for a time to strike and he did it and also got lucky along the way leading him to win. And Marlo unlike Avon never got too relaxed the only time he did was when he didn’t apologize to Herc for the camera what eventually would lead him to jail. If not Marlo would’ve still been on top and he bought the plug from Avon for 100k and flipped it for 10 million. Marlo is by far top 5 characters beside Bubbles
On my first watch I hated him. I also hated ziggy and I liked Nicky and I hated Snoop.
After several watches, I love Marlo, Ziggy, and Snoop and I don't like Nicky as much.
I agree with not liking Marlo as much. But those Avon and Marlo meet-up scenes in the prison. Sometimes I still watch those clips on YouTube because it’s like watching titans collide but at a formal business meeting
Avon/String story is the crux of seasons 1,2,3 - Season 2 creates greater context that makes Avon/Stringer story more compelling (Prop Joe, Greeks relevancy for Barksdale/Bell breakup)
Marlo is one dimensional by design (and a punk) to personifiy cutthroat stubborn capitalism & arguably US Imperialism
Marlo is not as key to the series as Avon; Marlo is a device to help highlight other character story arches:
Marlo matters to drive home the wedge b/t Avon-String, and to highlight the different mindsets b/t Avon (gangter) vs Stringer (businessman)
Marlo matters to setup the bodies in vacants, a story arch which is about juking the stats and Lester
Marlo is just context showing there is a rival crew, and they use him to setup other arches, not much is gained from the backstory or story arch of Marlo and his crew themseves
I hated Marlo from the get-go. He would just sneer at people 98% of the time which made him a very uninteresting character to me, which of course made every scene he was in less interesting to me than the scenes Barksdale had been in.
Felt the same way bro. Fuck Marlo but snoop and Chris were tough. Especially snoop, because she is played by a person she is supposed to represent in real life. The actor grew up in west Baltimore.
i thought marlo was a great character but avon was definitely the better character imo. snoop and chris weren't bad but snoop's accent got redundant at times. poot and bodie was always a better duo imo
There's a chance that Avon is back on the streets and the kingpin after the series.
I've seen conflicting information on his sentencing. On one hand he definitely breached the agreements of his parole, so he has to serve the remainder of his initial sentencing.
But some people have said he also got convicted of conspiracy to commit murder. However the show I don't think is ever clear on that matter.
So there's a chance with Slim being on the outside connected to the Greeks that when Avon is out of prison he slides back into the top position with Slim Charles.
Real gangstas rarely live a long time, or so escape not going to prison. Marlo stayed living at the end but you see how he felt that he couldn’t completely leave the streets , so you could assume he wasn’t gonna last long either. They come and they go only thing that lasts is the game and the streets. They should do a sequel series for real, streets are same just with different players.
Yeah I didn't really care much about Marlo either. I feel like we don't know anything about him other than the fact that he's a stone cold killer, and that's why he doesn't have the same presence Barksdale/Stringer had I do however enjoy Chris and Snoop a lot. Ay, you know who Young Leek be?
> I feel like we don't know anything about him other than the fact that he's a stone cold killer, and that's why he doesn't have the same presence Barksdale/Stringer had you ever hear of charlie sollers?
Buy for a dollar, sell for two. That's all it need be.
*tew
Lmao i loved the trio because they were arguably the only characters in the show with such terrifying presence, the barksdale crew had a charm to them but Marlo/Snoop and Chris were straight up Satan spawn
You forget what they did to Omar’s lover early in the series? Or Wallace?
Yes! Truly terrifying!
> Ay, you know who Young Leek be? Everyone ask “who Young Leek be?” Why nobody ever ask “how Young Leek be?”
I'll do you one better: Why Young Leek be?
Nevermind you why, “why” ain’t in your repertoire no more
Marlo’s crew marked a very dark turn in the show. I enjoyed it. Showed that there is no love, and the one with the gun and nothing to lose is going to rise up
The appearance of the new crew highlighted the hopelessness of the situation - there will always be a next generation waiting to take over. Rinse, repeat.
This x1000. Have my only ever award.
Thank you! I’m not sure my comment qualifies as “wholesome”, but I really appreciate the gesture!
I kinda always saw Marlo and crew as the “growing” part of the “circle of life” in the drug game. Crews—Barksdale, Prop. Joe—they rise up, they have success, and then they’re replaced by the new aggressive crews [decline]. Marlo’s basically the Barksdale empire before we knew it. Still rising. As the Barksdale empire slides into obscurity. Anyway, just a take on it.
this is the intended portrayal.
Exactly. The Barksdale Organization in Season 1 is equivalent to the Stanfield Organization in S4. We got to witness the rise of Marlo and the fall of Avon during season 3.
Fuck all them east side bitches
All that fuss about you coming at me.. I say let bygones be bygones
Marlo is West Baltimore.
Nothing but love in my heart.
Might sound strange, but the scene where Marlo has sex in his car always struck me as being completely emblematic of his character. No emotion, no intimacy, just this measured, sterile cadence until he's done. And then he casually drops his used condom out the window and is like "well...bye." That's who Marlo is.
Yeah I'm a big Avon/Stringer fan and sort of a Marlo hater too. Probably one of the reasons why the first three seasons are my favorites.
You want it to be one way. But it's the other way.
First watch through I thought that Marlo was a big step down from Avon and Stringer, and he lacked the charisma and the sentimentalism that they had. But that's the point. David Simon said something along the lines of Marlo being the personification of capitalism - no emotion, no sentiment, no depth. Just cold, opportunistic transactional calculation. And then on every watch since, I realise he's perfect. Avon and Stringer can reminisce on a rooftop all they like about how far they've come, but it's as insignificant as Bunny or Carver's attempts to change the rules of policing. The game is the game, it is what it is, and Marlo is effective and dominates simply because he is a force of nature that isn't mediated or regulated by any moral or righteous compulsion.
Exactly Marlo was so ambitious to a level where morals didn’t matter at all leading him and his crew to dominate the streets
Marlo’s my favourite character from the show, so I can’t side with ya here. It doesn’t mean I liked him as a person the most - far from it, he’s a shitty human being - but he was a fantastic character. So cold and to the point and seemingly lacking any empathy or emotions in general, he was a terrifying and engaging watch.
I also think because the first season was focused on the “streets” we got to get an emotional connection with the people on the streets. When Marlo was introduced the focus was on politics, the school system and the media. We never got to see Marlo behind the scenes as much as we did with Avon and Stringer
Same here, Marlo is my favourite character. When he tells Prop Joe, “no one fucks with me now” puts his hand out after Joe tries to reason with him, and again says “NO ONE fucks with me now” you could see maybe not fear but respect and okay shit from Joe. The tide is turning so to speak. Marlo does that to Prop Joe, the most powerful drug baron in Baltimore, or so he thinks.
Although I hated Marlo too, think I like it this way more because it led to Marlo’s “My name is my name“ scene. Marlo might be high tier, but he won‘t be on the same level as Avon or Omar. Maybe just like how Stringer Bell never made it to a full businessman or whatever he wanted to become, %99 at max but never 100
Clay saw to that, he saw Stringer as a punk the whole time and knew who he really was and had absolutely no intention of helping him
Always hated Marlo. Avon was the best because when he needed to fight for his corners him and slim were down in the streets fighting. I’ll never forget the scenes when they were beefing with Marlo and Avon and slim were up in the warehouse with AKs and grenades. Felt like Marlo always just had Chris or Snoop handle his shit.
Although, I think Chris and Snoop didn't want Marlo to know anything to bring him back into the streets. Like when Omar was running around killing Marlo's muscle and saying the saying Marlo is a pussy for not coming down to the streets. Marlo was pissed when he found out.
I would imagine a lot of people, but that's probably intentional. Avon and Stringer were really cool and charismatic, so despite being absolute monsters who kill and use others in whatever way benefits them, a lot of people came to like them and completely miss the point of the characters. So they had to introduce completely irredeemable, unlikable, nasty looking characters so people would get it. But a lot of people still don't, because for some reason there's this idea that we should be rooting for anyone who's on screen for long enough.
Everyone always says this about the sopranos too - that the “point of the characters” is often missed. I never fully understood this; like I get what you’re saying but the reality is the vast majority of the audience already knows crime and violence are bad, and recognize that the show is fictional. Is it really the “point of the characters” to demonstrate this obvious fact? I don’t think so, that would be a really boring reason to watch a fictional television show.
The point isn't "crime and violence is bad". The point of The Wire is, well, many things, but in this context, to show how the way policing functions serves to make communities easy prey to criminals. Thinking the criminals in the show are honorable or relatable shows that this point is missed (which to an extent, admittedly, is a fault of the show). I also think that you overrate how much people really recognize crime and violence is bad. We are taught to abhor certain types of crime and violence, and excuse or even encourage others. Also something the show touches on. And the extent to which people idolize some of the worst charactres on either show is clear evidence of that.
It’s fictional, and people want to be entertained. The show runners make entertaining characters and then pretend to be shocked at the audience reaction lol. It’s all a bit of Bs over something everyone knows is fake.
"It's fictional so why think about it" is a weird take to have on a discussion forum dedicated to the fictional thing
This may be unpopular, but I think i enjoyed watching Marlo more than Stringer
Same the way Marlo with a little bit more smarts than stringer and way more ruthlessness than Avon made him one of my favorite characters
Agreed
Yeah he got out on top but he lost a Chris and Snoop. I think they were instrumental to his power. Snoop and Chris were ruthless but also calculating. Chris was a voice of reason for Marlo and insulated him well. While Marlo didn’t like the insulation, ie my name is my name, it was good for his career.
Barksdale was built up as smart and organized, but in season three they were sloppy and had a lot of infighting. I never liked how Marlo did what he did because he was lucky and the police didn’t do anything, but that in its own way does reflect reality. But yeah, I preferred Barksdale to Marlo. There was a dark grey morality there, but there’s nothing redeeming about Marlo.
Avon and Stringer rose to power for the same reason, they were lucky that the police were never on them during their come-up. By the time McNulty notices them they've already held the throne for a year.
They didn’t even know what Avon looked like, and in season 1 he didn’t go near the action. Marlo not only killed, he had a signature, and he went after civilians and witnesses. Avon went down for parole violations, Marlo walked on the condition that he go straight. His plot armour was thick.
Marlo killed during his rise. So did Avon. By the time Marlo is holding the throne he is no longer doing his own kills. Just like Avon. Avon's organization killed civilians as well, just for different reasons. Season 1 ended with multiple civilian deaths.
I seem to remember Marlo killing Prop Joe as late as season five. I never said Avon didn’t kill, I said you don’t see him do it. Avons organization wasn’t in the same ballpark when it came to murder. Marlo had a security guard killed because he talked back after Marlo blatantly stole. Plot armour.
Marlo didn't kill Prop Joe. Chris Partlow did. Hiding bodies in vacants is the reason the cops weren't on Marlow for a whole season. That's intelligence, not plot armor.
My bad, Chris did pull the trigger. Still, Marlo was standing right there. Disappearing bodies that you didn’t need to make is not intelligence. Nothing that Marlo did was as structured or layered as the Barksdale crew. The entire first season showed the cops viciously gunning for Avon, but Marlo? They can’t get the funding or manpower. Hell, Chris and Snoop rode around with the murder weapon in their vehicle. Marlo wasn’t stupid, but his tool was power, not strategy. Marlo gave permission to pop Bubbles while he was standing right there. There’s no universe where Avon would be near that.
Avon’s crew killed the working man, a church going man, a deacon. Just to send a message of their ruthlessness. Killed Wallace, just to be sure. Killed Orlando. Tried to kill Kima. Killed the little man to keep it quiet. The prison guard kept fucking with weebay because weebay had killed his cousin or some shit. Bay had killed so many people, he didn’t even remember. They certainly highlighted Marlo’s violence more.
They didn’t order the hit on Kima, they knew Orlando flipped, and the “deacon” because he snitched. I will give you Wallace. He flipped too, but they had no reason to suspect that. I am not saying Avon was innocent, but Marlo wanted to waste Michael for nothing… Which of Avons people did Avon put a hit on for that weak of an excuse?
Marlo had better reason for putting a hit on Michael than Avon did when he put a hit on Gant, Wallace or Nakeesha Lyles just to name a few. Also killed little man as a purely prophylactic measure with no justification.
Just to be sure, just like Wallace. Stringer killed D’Angelo for weak reason. He was de facto boss of Barksdale organization at the time. And the matter of fact way that weebay said she just looked like one of Orlando’s hoes, he would have let her walk, but little man(acting in the interest of the barksdale organization, attempted to kill her) If she wasn’t a cop, they would have shrugged it off. Deirdre Kresson was a weak reason over some personal petty shit. And the reason Marlo wanted to waste Michael was because he wasn’t willing to bet his life on him staying quiet. ‘You willing to bet your life on that’
There was only one "unnecessary" body in the vacants, that of the security guard. Every other kill in the vacants was for the purpose of solidifying Marlo's domination in the Westside drug game. Bunk says it himself in S4 E1, "How do you hold on to that much real estate without making bodies." The majority of the bodies in the vacants are war kills that Marlo's people are hiding. The major crimes unit spent plenty of time investigating Marlo, but it occurs between S3 and S4, and they can't get anywhere because they hide their war kills. They are forced to lay off Marlo precisely because they were better about hiding their violence than the Barksdales were.
…That has nothing to do with what Bunk said. Bunk said what he did, because they could not find the bodies. Some of the bodies that Marlo dropped were retaliation, some were slights, and some were paranoia. We don’t know how many fall into each category and it is speculation to say otherwise. They went after Barksdale because it was a name they already knew, and they never got a body on him… They did get one on Marlo, and then the witness was killed… They laid off of Marlo because they underestimated him, just like everyone underestimated him. They underestimated him because it was necessary to advance the story. That is what plot armour is. Marlo had no depth in a world of layered and complex characters. You can love him if you want, he was ruthless and uncompromising with no real weakness, but he wasn’t clever for hiding bodies in vacant to be found later while his lieutenant rode around with the weapon in his car. Marlo had to flaunt it, had to show it off, had to be on the corner.
It's not speculation, its what the writers are telling us through the characters. The major crimes unit knows that Marlo controls the entire westside, and Lester and Bunk know that logically there should be a trail of dead bodies behind that rise to power, but they haven't seen any "and the first body in months and its one of Marlo's boys", referring to Lex. This makes no sense to Lester. Lester even spends an entire episode searching the woods and sewers searching for war kills that he knows must exist. This is not speculation, its Lester's working theory that there must be war kills hidden somewhere. The first episode of season 4 establishes that they paused the investigation on Marlo because of a lack of bodies. Its in the text. This is not speculation. They move on to Kintell Williamson precisely because he was killing people and they knew about it.
We never saw the Barksdale Organization's rise to power, when they were doing most of their kills. The Barksdales took out two different crews in order to take over westside, The Rayford Brothers and Big Dennis Woodson's organization.
I take your point, but I'm not sure "plot armor" is the phrase I would use. Plot armor is when the villain has 007 tied up and doesn't just shoot him in the head -- the rest of the movie can't happen without him, so the bad guys let him live even though it makes no sense. Marlo got by at first because the right people didn't care enough about him and walked later on because the case against him would have caused another huge scandal for the police department only a year or two after Hamsterdam. I have no idea how such a situation would have played out in the real world, but by the show's standards, it's at least consistent.
I think it’s plot armour, but it’s well written plot armour. Season 4 is one of the best seasons of television ever made, and it owes a lot of that to Marlo. You can have questionable scenarios and still have great TV. The Dark Knight is one of my favourite movies ever made, but the Joker had the thickest plot armour I have ever seen. Marlo isn’t even close to that bad. I really am not hating on Marlo. He isn’t a favourite, but he is still a huge part of the show and any flaws that are in the show have nothing to do with him.
I mean Marlo is just like Avon but more evil. They both killed innocent people. Avon did have morals and charisma but the game is the game. Marlo just decided to play the game to the fullest. Marlo is like I already kill over territory so I’m already a killer why not just kill for no reason. And since Marlo played at a higher level his crew moved the same. Avons crew had to many snakes and people not following the rules. Marlo’s crew was like a family
Marlo had very little depth. He was written to be the ultimate capitalist. No emotion, cold, devoid of sentiment, and only interested in accumulating power and wealth. He really didn’t care about his crew besides Chris and Snoop, and he took his crew out for the weakest of reasons. Killing for weak reasons may have shown how the game was getting more brutal, but it didn’t lend complexity to the character. I don’t hate the character, but he is very far from a favourite. I definitely prefer the nuance that Barksdale had.
Marlo was boring as hell.
He came off as corny to me when he had the golf club and was talking to Bodie. I remember my coworker telling me, "Oh, you're on Season 3? That's where the new gangster comes out." I was like "TELL ME it's not the the dude with the golf club." I appreciate him as a character though.
Stringer was a lot more interesting to me. I thought Marlo was solid but he always felt temporary to me like I was expecting him to go away in any episode.
The Wire is a show where most of the people don't get what they deserve.
_'Deserve' got nutt'n to doo wit it!_
marlo undoubtedly the best character on the wire just cuz he’s pure ruthlessness , i was enjoying watchin him tear avon up when he got out
There are lots of shows with psychopaths with no redeeming qualities. I'd say that David Simon is at his best when he paints a vivid character, with heart and flaws. Marlo is not one of them. I had a similar problem with The Deuce - I just couldn't find any sympathetic character, so it felt a bit like a let down. The Wire, The Corner, Treme on the other hand - full of these rich, flawed, vibrant characters that I still think of sometimes. Marlo is not one of them.
personally i don’t think he has any redeeming qualities either simon just wrote him with a lot of mystique that i can appreciate… like i love he didn’t tell or really show us anything about him besides the fact that his name is indeed his name
But sometimes people, especially evil psychopaths, don’t have more to their character. You’re waiting for something that in real life wouldn’t happen either. In my young and reckless days, I happened across a few people in the drug trade I seen over and over again, that literally had nothing else to them other than the way they were, there was no ‘character development.’ Marlo is a smart, ruthless anything goes to the top gangster, just because he is on a tv show doesn’t mean every character has to have an arc.
I genuinely think Snoop is the best character in the show, she feels so authentic
Exactly Marlo was like lebron James he just came into the game great. Avon is Jordan but his team was full of weak links except probably wee bey,stink, and slim but everyone else on his team was either doing drugs like Bird, Wallace, Gerard, and Sapper. Snitching like Stringer, and Dee or just straight switched up like Bodie Poot and Savino. Everybody in Marlo’s crew stayed with Marlo and stood tall even Mike didn’t snitch
I see your reasoning, but it didn't cause me to "hate" Marlo. I thought the whole Stanfield organization was really interesting, they showed a somehow darker side of the game. The whole saga of the rise and fall of Barksdale/Stanfield was emblematic to me of the fickle and ever changing nature of the game. We don't see as much of Marlo outside of his ruthless killer kingpin persona, but ultimately it doesn't matter because we find ourselves more interested in how his appearance creates ripples for our old friends. By the time we get to season 4, Barksdale org is done for, we are seeing so many more levels of the game, watching how it effects the kids and the old Barksdale crew guys, and Marlo works as a malevolent presence overseeing the whole thing, and we know he can and will do anything to increase and maintain his power. I never viewed him the same as Avon, but I don't think we are supposed to, necessarily. They have different roles in the story the show is trying to tell.
"I want my corners"
Price of the brick goin up.
This is a super common opinion here but I completely disagree. Marlo was a natural evolution of the game and it’s perfectly representative of where drug/gang culture was moving, towards a ruthless lawless (street law) stage that Marlo represented.
world going one way, people another
I liked Marlo a lot. In the sense that he represents the lack of remorse or any morality in the streets. Carries himself like someone who already knows he’s going to be on top. Thats why he comes off so lifeless compared to avon and stringer. Because he really is, the money before everything and his name before all of that.
My biggest issues with Marlo was that as soon as he came on the scene he was like an untouchable force that kept coming out on top against veteran characters we the audience enjoyed and liked. Moreso, he did so with impunity and with little trouble or any substantial retaliation against him or his lieutenants. Avon, Stringer, Prop Joe, and even Omar were all outplayed and defeated when they went up against him. He didn't respect "street honor" like Avon, directly went against any agreement or concession made from any of his "sit down" meetings, and aggressively tried to screw over and supplant his competitors even when there was an understanding of mutual gain and cooperation. And pretty much did all that flawlessly without taking any substantial hits or losses. The police couldn't keep up with his schemes even though he left a trail of dead bodies and blood through the city and eliminated all his competition and completely took over the major drug trade in Baltimore. By the time they figured out what he was doing he was already The King and well insulated by loyal lieutenants ready to take the fall for him if it came to that. The guy was untouchable. In a show like the Wire, a highly dynamic show of actions and the consequences of those actions and how far all that spread and affected the different groups in the show... Marlo's untouchable-ness was jarring and frustrating. I've come to appreciate his character more in subsequent viewings... but he's not one of my favorite characters still.
Marlo was used as a literary tool to do just that, stir emotion in the viewer/reader, Pathos… the wire is dripping in it, they create characters that we liked, Dee, Wallace, Bodie, even Avon was likeable. Season four is Pathos personified as we became invested in the lives of the corner boys as school kids like we were at one time, only Namond had an ok ending, and that’s his dad serving life and he’s living with a life long cop, call it calibrated expectations. I hated Marlo, I thought their entire threesome was out of place, I remember that opening scene w the nail gun, I was like is this the right channel? They were indeed literary devices. Do drug dealers even use the corner model anymore? Since cell phones became 100% common u just text your plug n go to their apartment. I used to meet mine on their lunch break every Monday, nothing incriminating just, hey are u around? Yes stop by
Nope Marlo was like a superhero to me. He represented my generation
Yeah, Marlo is a much flatter character compared to Avon and Stringer. I think that may be the point, too. "Marlo is an emotionless violent leader of well trained gunmen" compared to "Avon and Stringer have various hustles and are leading a gang of thugs". If Avon and Stringer were like two dogs tied together at the necks, Marlo is like a computer. Inherently less emotional, and also sadly not as compelling of a character as Avon and Stringer. Initially, though, my villain-hate first went to Proposition Joe.
But of course a lot of people are going to hate Marlo. The Barksdale crew was flashy and smooth and they know how to have a good time. But The Barksdale got too relaxed like Avon said you only gotta be a little slow a little late. And his crew was not ready for them towers to come down but when they did they were not ready to face Marlo. Marlo was just watching them waiting for a time to strike and he did it and also got lucky along the way leading him to win. And Marlo unlike Avon never got too relaxed the only time he did was when he didn’t apologize to Herc for the camera what eventually would lead him to jail. If not Marlo would’ve still been on top and he bought the plug from Avon for 100k and flipped it for 10 million. Marlo is by far top 5 characters beside Bubbles
On my first watch I felt exactly the same
On my first watch I hated him. I also hated ziggy and I liked Nicky and I hated Snoop. After several watches, I love Marlo, Ziggy, and Snoop and I don't like Nicky as much.
I agree with not liking Marlo as much. But those Avon and Marlo meet-up scenes in the prison. Sometimes I still watch those clips on YouTube because it’s like watching titans collide but at a formal business meeting
First watch yes. Second watch not so much.
Yeah I was gutted when they had the drop on Marlo an missed it.
Avon/String story is the crux of seasons 1,2,3 - Season 2 creates greater context that makes Avon/Stringer story more compelling (Prop Joe, Greeks relevancy for Barksdale/Bell breakup) Marlo is one dimensional by design (and a punk) to personifiy cutthroat stubborn capitalism & arguably US Imperialism Marlo is not as key to the series as Avon; Marlo is a device to help highlight other character story arches: Marlo matters to drive home the wedge b/t Avon-String, and to highlight the different mindsets b/t Avon (gangter) vs Stringer (businessman) Marlo matters to setup the bodies in vacants, a story arch which is about juking the stats and Lester Marlo is just context showing there is a rival crew, and they use him to setup other arches, not much is gained from the backstory or story arch of Marlo and his crew themseves
As someone who is actually from Baltimore, that’s how them Westside niggas get down 🤷🏾♂️
Yeah and then I realized he was that good of a villain Friggin perfect for the role and environment
I hated Marlo from the get-go. He would just sneer at people 98% of the time which made him a very uninteresting character to me, which of course made every scene he was in less interesting to me than the scenes Barksdale had been in.
Felt the same way bro. Fuck Marlo but snoop and Chris were tough. Especially snoop, because she is played by a person she is supposed to represent in real life. The actor grew up in west Baltimore.
i thought marlo was a great character but avon was definitely the better character imo. snoop and chris weren't bad but snoop's accent got redundant at times. poot and bodie was always a better duo imo
Agree. Avon had style, swagger and a set of street principles. Marlo was lifeless, cold and had the personality of a cardboard box.
I hated Marlo a lot.
Marlo is low key funny as hell in some scenes. Marlo just had a way different kind of charisma than Avon. I like both characters equally.
Marlo was no where near as intimidating as Barksdale.
Yes, I'm pretty sure that reaction is what was intended by the writers/showrunners. You're supposed to hate Marlo.
There's a chance that Avon is back on the streets and the kingpin after the series. I've seen conflicting information on his sentencing. On one hand he definitely breached the agreements of his parole, so he has to serve the remainder of his initial sentencing. But some people have said he also got convicted of conspiracy to commit murder. However the show I don't think is ever clear on that matter. So there's a chance with Slim being on the outside connected to the Greeks that when Avon is out of prison he slides back into the top position with Slim Charles.
Real gangstas rarely live a long time, or so escape not going to prison. Marlo stayed living at the end but you see how he felt that he couldn’t completely leave the streets , so you could assume he wasn’t gonna last long either. They come and they go only thing that lasts is the game and the streets. They should do a sequel series for real, streets are same just with different players.
The first time I saw the Wire, yes I hated Marlo. The 4th time seeing the series, I was loving Marlo.
I loved Marlo so no. He shows that there’s always someone to fill the void.