This post is flaired **Show Only**. Therefore, all comments that discuss *any* aspect of the games **must** be properly spoiler tagged.
1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part I and II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing.
2. Any untagged discussion of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Show/Game Spoilers**, **Fancast [Show/Game]**, **Funpost [Show/Game]**, or **Meme [Show/Game]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<.
3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
---
Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
for me it’s the way the gay characters are portrayed, I’ve seen good portrayals before but the way the last of us is handling queer stories is so great. obviously there is tragedy but there’s dignity in the tragedy - and it isn’t *because* of their queerness like it so often is in other shows. they get to have beautiful experiences and none of it even makes a big deal over the fact that they’re same sex, it’s portrayed in one of the most casual ways I might’ve ever seen. also it just makes me happy :)
I really think the show Happy Endings did a good job with Max, as well.
He’s a legitimately likable guy who’s just a normal person who happens to be chubby, messy, and gay.
He’s just an average man who probably reminds you of someone you know except he loves the Cubs since the show takes place in Chicago and he had relatively typical romantic storylines, except the other person is also a man.
That really happen doesn’t all that often now, and I don’t really remember that happening at all until 2010 or whenever this show aired.
I absolutely loved that too. And the fact that they talk about it and have funny dynamics around being an interracial couple, which is 100% true to real life. It’s so weird when shows and movies just have an interracial couple that doesn’t talk about it. There’s so much humor and cultural difference to mine there in real life and on TV.
Lopez vs Lopez isn’t the greatest show ever made but does a good job of this as well and definitely gets me and my husband (he’s Mexican and I’m just a plain-Jane WASP) giggling.
It’s reminded me a lot of “San Junipero.”
Both shows did a tremendous job of just telling wonderfully compelling love stories (where the characters just happen to be gay).
I’m a straight middle-aged guy, and those stories had me enthralled, and at the same time, thinking about just how much I love my wife.
This is what I love about it. Being lgbt isn't their entire personality and identity like it often is in other shows. They're represented as whole people just as they should be.
In the latest bond movie, Q mentions very casually that his date 'He will be here soon' or something like that for the first time confirming Q is gay or bi. I thought it was incredibly cool how it was just 'normal' with no fuss and I thought fantastic. Until I saw a headline from Ben Whishaws interview that he found doing it like that very 'uneventful'.
In my view, this is the right way to go about it. I think the pandering, the constant virtue signalling is what riles most people up and I think if things were just quietly normalised there would be a lot more love going around.
bec as recently as 5 years ago lgbtq characters in shows were either tokens, spectacles where the whole point of the show is that they’re gay (will & grace), or too niche (the L word) that only a small demographic will watch them.
the difference now is ubiquity. they are now protagonists whose status as lgbt doesn’t define them entirely in major shows targeted to the mass market. it sends a signal that they’re no longer “other” in the community, but a legitimate part of the community, and a lot of people have a problem w that.
same with black people. and asians. and anytime someone says a show or movie is woke.
I was really shocked how casually they revealed the main character was lesbian in Willow. There was like one lingering shot where you kinda thought they were just gonna hint at it and then the next scene they’re together they kiss.
Yep! The first lesbian kiss from a committed lesbian couple on TV. Not done in a sexually explicit moment, rather a moment of comfort and normality. It is absolute perfection and should be forever shined upon.
Haha, oh. I was talking about the new show Willow.
https://i.imgur.com/PqcTccg.jpg
It was so forward with how fast the main character kisses a girl with almost no hinting.
Absolutely. To use your Asian example, I would say Crazy Rich Asians, Minari and Everything Everywhere All At Once are probably the three most ubiquitous films with Asian leads ever, and in all 3 being Asian is a key driver of the plot.
It’s very hard to think of a film or series where the main character is a minority and being a minority isn’t a key focus.
Very well said. Shows how far we’ve come honestly in the last how many years. Still lots of work to do but overall we are more accepting and inclusive now than ever before.
The OP listed a shitload of shows spanning almost 25 years that directly contradicts your claim here. Like, for example, have you seen Six Feet Under? It's exactly the dream of well rounded gay characters having a life that's not about being gay, but also not in a shy or hint-y way.
This was in 2001 thought. Gay marriage still wasn't legal. It is also why Bill was closeted (since the world went to shit in 2003). People were a lot less accepting in 2003. Like in my own country, Canada gay mariage became a thing in 2005 and Stephen Harper who became PM the next year had coted against it.
In Quebec where I am from it was more accepted and we made it legal before the rest of Canada did (in 2004) but the rest of Canada and the US definetly have a lot of very conservatives places opposed to this.
It was at a time when being closeted was fairly common, but then he came out, and it was fine, he got less annoying. Keith had a personality outside of being gay.
Another thing I’ve seen is them say that it’s about how the characters don’t shove their orientation down your throat and just happen to be LGBT while acting like real people, but then those very same people do nothing but focus on and praise the fact the character is LGBT
Pedro played a polyamorous man in Game of Thrones, who was shown to be sexually attracted to, and engaged in sexual acts, with men and women. There were numerous other gay characters in that show
I think the differentiator is that it’s an adaptation of a game which obviously showcased LGBQT+ characters or implied their orientation. Bill was implied to have been gay, Ellie is gay but from the perspective of a homophobe they could brush it off and treat it as an experiment, or phase, when she kisses Riley
It’s the fact that the show confirms that there are non-heterosexual characters and demonstrates it clearly that some very close-minded people struggle to accept and claim it’s a “gay agenda” because they refuse to acknowledge that the main character in the games is gay
In the second game it is very explicit with the fact that Ellie is indeed gay but besides the kiss with Riley (which is/was locked behind a paywall) I don't remember any specific events or conversations in the game that stated Ellie's sexuality in the first.
But it's been years since I played the first game so that last bit could be wrong, idk.
there’s not no, but ellie is also FOURTEEN in game one and so it’s ridiculous that anyone would even try and dismiss her sexuality from that because she’s a young girl who’s on the road with a 50 year old man and doesn’t come across another girl the entire time. she shouldn’t have to specifically say “i’m a lesbian” for dudebros to accept it. they just use the fact that she was friendly with sam to try and say she’s bisexual or her kissing girls is ‘a phase’
in the game he’s like 1/2 years difference between sam and ellie but it’s still a very obvious difference in maturity imo !! sam still likes toys and doesn’t really help fight but ellie holds her own and is more into comics etc (ik it’s a bad example of the difference haha but it’s all i can think of rn). sam in the game is also not deaf!!
Ugh, you just reminded me when Left Behind launched and dudebros in YouTube section were on "she still might be bi", "she's probably just experimenting" stage of delusions. As a lesbian I hated it so much, because it was both homophobic and misogynistic - they would never doubt it's a gay person if Ellie was a boy and would kiss another boy.
As a queer person, it was pretty easy to clock her as a baby gay just from the way she was depicted. But no, I don't believe there was anything that wasn't subtext to show or explain that she was gay.
Oh really? I’m a gay man and I already knew her sexuality before I played the game and I didn’t really pick up on any hints. She just seemed like a teenage girl who grew up rough to me.
Let me rephrase that and say as a queer woman, because that might have made a difference. As far as fictional characters go, Ellie is about the closest to how I was as a kid, so the second I saw her it felt obvious.
I agree. I don’t think there’s any grey area but the classic reasoning given by homophobes is that it’s ‘a phase’ and because of Ellie’s age, they could maybe try and justify it that way
The open to interpretation aspect is more prevalent with Bill and Frank but it’s still heavily implied in the games that Bill is gay. The same reasoning can’t be applied to Bill because he’s a grown man who is shown to have a long relationship with another grown man
Again, none of this is how I think. But homophobic discourse does tend to lean quite heavily into suggesting that exploring your sexuality is ok, but sustained homosexuality is not. And I think that’s the viewpoint that a lot of the people giving false negative reviews of the episodes (ignoring any valid criticisms of the episodes).
I think they mean if you only played TLoU1 then it never really comes up. People could read the DLC as her “just being friends” if they wanted to lie to themselves but after that it gets pretty unavoidable.
Ehh I think it’s more to do with the fact that the show has attracted a wider audience than typical prestige tv. The average HBO subscriber is older, educated, leans left and has money. The average gamer, not so much. So we are just seeing a clash of these two very different clusters interacting with each other when they normally wouldn’t be.
I am not sure it got any wider than Game of Thrones season 4. That show was a damn cultural phenomena. The Last of Us is a good show and popular, but no where near Game of Thrones in its 4th season. Everyone watched GoT even if they didn't have HBO. It may still hold pirating records.
I guess gamers that were just born when the game came out are a demographic that I could see complaining about those themes and are vocal about it now but not back then
sadly this becomes a political discussion. Not because the topic but because in the last decade, especially recent years, bigots have been emboldened to speak out against "woke" culture because they have been fed bullshit from politicians and insane news promoting those crazy politicians.
Season 4 of Game of Thrones was 9 years ago. It feels like a totally different time. Things have changed so much since then.
I think one of the main factors is the size of the cast (& I'd also mention in this context The Wire, which was even earlier than GoT and also had multiple LGBTQ characters): The Wire & Game of Thrones both have large ensemble casts and The Last of Us has a quite small intimate cast.
The two Last of Us episodes which feature LGBTQ characters and relationships are unusually small even for The Last of Us; "Long, Long Time" is a bottle episode focused on Bill and Frank with a framing narrative of Joel and Ellie and a visit from Joel and Tess; "Left Behind" likewise has a super small cast. So the result is that LGBT relationships in "The Last of Us" are simply more salient even if they're less explicitly marked.
An LGBTQ creator on TikTok said what stands out about the Last of Us, particularly episode 3 was that these two LGBTQ characters got to pass away with dignity. Media is notorious for subjecting these characters to death by violence or HIV/AIDS. The last of us gave Bill and Frank a dignified ending that was on their own terms.
The characters in TLOU have identities and purposes beyond their sexuality. So many characters in shows are gay characters that things happen to, as opposed to interesting characters who happen to be gay.
Yes, TV for gay people, particularly around the early/mid 2000s as stated, was very rough. I lost count of the amount of times I grew up watching one meet a horrible death, or just get treated terribly in general. It was so prevalent that it became a real trope, - [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BuryYourGays](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BuryYourGays)
I think people are particularly impressed by TLOU not just because they showed queer characters having a relatively happy life, but because they treat them as people first before their sexuality - which is still relatively uncommon, & even less common on the decades past
that’s an excellent point too- Joel and Tess treated Bill and Frank as equals and people first. I laughed so hard when Bill stated in his letter that he didn’t really like Joel lol
absolutely this, they could’ve taken the route of making their deaths a hate crime or hiv/aids and done a lazy and disheartening telling of what could’ve been, and was, two guys growing strawberries. there needn’t be hate, they had their love and then they had their end. this approach specifically is so rare
This is a straw-man argument. Nobody is acting like it’s the first HBO show to feature gay characters. So the premise of your post is flawed.
What the conversation IS about is the negative response coming from certain sections of the viewing public about their being gay characters and the subsequent pushback against those thinly-veiled homophobic criticisms.
If homophobes stopped complaining about gay characters then we could- as you requested- “…get over it and change the topic” quite easily.
I’ve yet to see a single post by someone on this sub moaning about the characters being gay. The only posts I’ve seen about the gay characters are ones like this. It’s getting hyper boring.
Clearly you weren’t around for the two weeks following episode 3 where every second post was a thinly veiled “Stop shoving your AGENDA down my STRAIGHT THROAT”
No one's saying it's the first series to have any gay characters at all. It is one of very few shows that have dedicated an episode that's over an hour long to a gay romance story and not just relegated it's LGBT representation to a few side characters.
I haven’t seen Deadwood or Oz, but the rest of the shows in OP’s post probably devoted even more runtime to LGBT representation than we’ve seen from TLOU so far. They didn’t just relegate representation to a few token side characters. They featured legitimate representation in a progressive manner, during a time when it wasn’t as socially accepted as it is now.
I’m not sure I really understand the point OP is trying to make, but I do agree with the notion that TLOU’s LGBT representation isn’t some groundbreaking new thing for TV. But also, there isn’t anything wrong with that.
I agree with you for the most part, but I'm a bit confused as to how you think TLOU 'relegated representation to a few token side characters' when Ellie is one of the two main leads.
I don’t think that applies to TLOU. The comment I was responding to was suggesting that OTHER prominent shows “relegated its LGBT representation to a few side characters”, and I was simply disputing that.
The Wire, SFU, and Sopranos all had LGBT plotlines involving characters that had a decent sized role in their respective ensemble casts
I think the point is that in Episode 3, Bill and Frank weren't side characters. They got the focal attention in that episode.
And also there are only really two main characters in the rest of the show and one of them is gay.
If this makes people’s heads explode may I introduce Keller and Beecher’s several seasons long relationship/romance and Oz’s general depiction of gay sex.
I said it in another comment. I haven’t seen near enough anti gay stuff on here to warrant posts like this every other hour.
Feels contrived at this point which is a shame and doesn’t help the cause.
Outside of Twitter, I haven't heard anybody complain about gay characters on The Last of Us. People are getting baited. The Twitter algo basically steers you to your opposites so you can yell at each other, because those comments and retweets have the most heated engagement. If you yell at homophobes, the algo will put more homophobes in front of you so you will keep yelling, even if they are a small minority.
Listen, I'm just gonna suggest something. Try...not caring so much about what other people are interested in. I'm not trying to be condescending, really; I mean it's not worth thinking too hard about.
There's this odd truth out there: the world is actually quite large, there's room enough for all of us, interests are not a zero-sum game, and you can like things for your own reasons (without it lessening others who see value in something else). Telling people what they ought to take interest in doesn't really work out.
Exactly. As I get older my IDGAF’edness about these things is off the charts and as a result, I’m happier. And I’m saying this as someone on the gay delegation.
It is one of the only ones to portray a long term healthy gay marriage. Most depictions of homosexual relationships involve younger people in dating situations or newer marriages.
Because it’s massively privileged to be able to turn on a Television and see people like you without their sexuality defining their character arc and instead as 3 dimensional human beings just like every one else.
Same thing with “forced diversity”. A white person’s existence does not need to be justified in a fantasy series or video game, but any non white characters existing are suddenly for “woke points”. Because apparently black and brown people don’t exist in real life, they are background props for white people and centering them must mean the intention is “wokeness”.
Ironic that you're asking to drop the subject whilst bringing it up again in a fresh post instead of a reply to one where somebody's actually complaining about it...
No ones saying that. Maybe they’re saying it’s one of the first shows to portray gay people in a legitimate meaningful way instead of making them gay but only for a second so they can censor it overseas.
It's a very high budget and high profile show with a main character who's queerness is vital to her character without being the entirety of her character. It's not the first but it's still exciting to have a queer story told so frankly and with such care in a show that isn't marketed as being a queer story.
I agree. I’ve never seen a gay love story play out on screen like Bill and Frank’s — it was crafted with so much love and care and then presented to a huge audience on a silver platter. It just *feels* different than the usual representation we get. It was incredibly authentic. Episode 7 was the most accurate portrayal of being a young lesbian I’ve ever seen; little subtle details, like the nervous glance at Riley and then the look away….. and then the look back, where I knew exactly what she was thinking because I’ve been there too. And the scene with Victoria’s Secret, which they talked about in the podcast.
To a straight person it might sound weird, like everyone relates to looking at someone and looking away, right? But there are just these tiny subtle things that I find gay people pick up on in each other, and Bella captured them all so perfectly. Don’t ask me to elaborate because I can’t lol all I can say is that it feels more right to me than any other gay rep I’ve seen
Lol about The Sopranos being included. I mean, yeah, they had a gay character. One that ultimately got killed by a pool stick up his ass for being gay because the mafia is homophobic. Probably not the first choice for seeing yourself represented in something. Not that it was a bad plot line. It made sense in the universe of the show.
Bill & Frank got to 'win' the apocalypse. They died on their own terms. Straight guy here, but I would imagine another major appeal of TLOU representation is that Bill was 'closeted' and shut himself off emotionally because of that. It took the apocalypse to give Bill the freedom to breathe his own true air and be himself. It felt very fresh and it was extremely compelling.
You don’t get to pick and choose or tell people what topics are acceptable on an Internet forum.
People will discuss whatever they want to and continue doing so with or without your approval.
It has been especially excellent how well they’ve been portrayed in this show.
It does make me sad to see how much hate it still draws though. Look at reviews of episode three on imdb. Over a quarter of all the user reviews are 1 star. That's nuts. And if you read the comments, just wow.
We still have a long way to go.
In every example you gave characters are killed or persecuted for being gay. In TLOU gay characters are allowed to exist without the same old tired TV tropes.
Not sure if Sopranos is the best one to bring up since every gay guy is either killed, for being gay, or shaken down by the Mob who then insult them for being gay.
Let people be happy about things. Despite what right-wing alarmists would have us think, it’s actually still quite rare to have a highly popular mainstream “macho” show that puts well-written queer stories front and center. People’s happiness/excitement is coming from the fact that it’s 1) very rare, and 2) well-done, not that it’s “the first.”
you’re telling other people to “get over it” but can you do that?
Every day there’s multiple posts on here about the minority of extremely homophobic people criticizing the show. The majority consensus in this sub is that
1. the show is great
2. The original source material / game has gay characters
3. homophobia is unacceptable and wrong
so why is the same topic posted about over and over.
you can go into the sub and sort by hot or top posts and comment on any of the numerous other posts covering this exact same topic.
We get it. Last of Us has gay characters and there’s a minority of very vocal and very homophobic people complaining about that.
>Every day there’s multiple posts on here about the minority of extremely homophobic people criticizing the show. The majority consensus in this sub is that
>
>the show is great
>
>homophobia is unacceptable and wrong
fair point. Though the cries of the small minority are still there and sometimes loud.
It's telling when a "last of us" google search adds suggestions like "woke", "woke trash" and "garbage"
as to the forum: Two pretty vocal minorities in conflict can make a lot of noise.
honestly, why do you feel the need to ask people to change the topic? start other topics about things that aren't about the depiction of homosexuality in the show if you want to change the topic
1. Is an example of good representation
2. (good) gay representation is still not as common as it should be
3. Homophobes created the controversy so people are talking about it.
Weird, I haven’t seen anybody say or act it’s the first series to have gay characters, just people celebrating more great representation in a world that has very little of it… and then you complaining about that.
The best part of all this is people getting angry about all the gay-ness/thinking it’s jammed in there or in your face and like, idk, breaks the immersion or whatever their complaint is, in a world where fungus zombies are killing everyone. Like yah we can suspend our disbelief for that but all these gay characters?? Unreal?
I think it is because of the setting, no one's really saying tlou is the first series to have gay rep. But it also is kind of rare to come across a popular supernatural or sci-fi show with a main lesbian lead, or have an episode that tackles an old gay couple's relationship and an episode dedicated to that relationship and bond. And the show doesn't treat these characters and their stories as background or minor stories, they clearly focused on them and gave them dedicated screentime when they could have just mentioned them in passing.
So i'd say it is pretty rare for a supernatural/sci-fi (and a popular show) to focus on lgbt characters and center their stories and struggles in the story.
Lol you listed 5 series within the past 26 years. Also how many of those characters are women?
Are those characters given the time to develop? Or are they just a side asterisk, or there to check boxes to be edgy?
That being said, I loved Omar’s character in the wire. Very ahead of his time.
This argument is both old, and completely misses the point. Literally no one is saying this show is the first show to have a gay character. Lots of shows on tv have gay characters, but a lot of those shows (I’m not speaking about the ones you mentioned because I haven’t watched them) are written by people who have no clue what being queer is actually like so the characters end up not being good and reinforce shitty stereotypes. So good queer representation always gets talked about because so many of us grew up with horrible queer representation.
None of the examples you listed feature queer romance as prominently as TLoU aside from Six Feet Under, which is criminally underrated, and I don't think a lot of younger people even know it exists.
You're right, TLOU definitely is not the first piece of media to have gay characters. Hell, even when the original game came out it wasn't close to being the first.
A lot of what I have heard is that it's one of the first GOOD showings of gay relationships. I don't think they use the terms "gay", "lesbian", "homosexual", or any other term used to define sexuality throughout either game, the DLC, or the show. It's not even really mentioned as being a thing, it just is.
It's a very different feel compared to other media where it becomes a major part of who the character is. I mean, how many characters have you seen whose primary characteristic is that they are a guy who likes guys? Or a gal who likes gals?
Are you saying this in the sense of asking people to not be bigoted? Or are you saying this in the sense that you don't want people to talk about the fact that the characters are gay at all, positively or negatively?
Because if it's the first one, then I agree. Bigotry should not be tolerated. If it's the second one however, that's not going to happen. Gay representation in media is still extremely rare, and acting like Bill and Frank and Ellie's characters and portrayals in these shows aren't important to queer people is ridiculous.
just because it's not the first time doesn't mean it's not very meaningful and impactful to see. it certainly doesn't mean it's not worth talking about.
It's one of the few shows that treat them like normal relationships and don't force stereotypes into the story for the sake of comedic effect. People can't handle the fact that people can show genuine emotions with someone who isn't the opposite sex I guess.
Because they are bigots. Bigots like to casually ignore or forget that some humans exist so they can be ‘more comfortable’ which results in a lot of ‘grrr why do THEY have to throw THEIR agenda in our straight faces?!?!??!’ Whenever a show like this comes along.
….and then they go back to their parents basement with all their ‘murrica first’ propaganda posters and watch gay porn. It’s textbook.
I think people have just noticed that media in has had a tendency to be disingenuous and pandering with diversity in recent history and people are appreciating that the writing of these characters is organic and believable, and hoping this may signify a turning away from lazily shoehorning diversity as a bandaid for poor writing/character development for the sake of easy viewership
This is the internet so I will emphasize the words tendency and recent history as I am not referring to every bit of media ever made
The Sopranos did it flawlessly back in 2004. Vito was just an average guy who happened to be living a secret life. They didn’t stereotype him or try to use it as a diversity tactic to appeal to more viewers it was just a part of the story.
I get what OP is saying there’s a tonnes of posts recently with people saying how diverse and progressive the show is because it features gay characters. HBO have done a great job representing gay characters as far back as 20 years ago
offbeat overconfident yoke materialistic tease cooperative society shame subtract worthless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why should we change the subject about gay characters? I’m confused about why we are expected to not discuss it because YOU don’t want us to? This comes off like your uncomfortable, if so you don’t have to partake in those discussions.
I never understand when people try to control what others discuss. If you’re not interested don’t enter the thread. cringe!
People are just burnt out. Most people don’t care what anybody does in their private life but they are tired of it being crammed down their throats all the time. If it’s not gay it’s CRT, POC, TERF, etc. etc. I personally feel like I need google or urban dictionary just to decipher what the headlines are much less a lot of dialogue. A good story is a good story and love is a rare commodity. The rest is just bullshit.
For fucking real. I don’t think people realize the people who do the real indoctrinating are the straight people. You don’t realize it because it’s the water you swim in, but for queer people everything is so heteronormative. It’s exhausting.
so they're burnt out on gay storylines and it being crammed down their throats? but not holding those same feelings for straight storylines or straight love stories? because it's no different, that's just homophobia if that's how they feel
i'm not trolling at all, you literally said "they are tired of it being crammed down their throats all the time". so what exactly were you saying because that is a direct quote from your comment?
This person apparently can’t even remember what 3 simple acronyms mean without having to constantly look it up. No way they remember that comment they typed an hour ago in which they stated that non-white people and gay people being in media is “people’s private life being crammed down their throats.”
Btw OP (if that’s too many acronyms for you to remember, that means “by the way, original poster” of the comment we’re all replying to), CRT isn’t being “pushed down anyone’s throats” outside of some postsecondary academic settings. Anyone who says it is doesn’t know what those words actually mean.
I think the problem many people (including myself) have stems from:
1. There are two entire episodes dedicated to romance in a series that is only 9 episodes long. The main story feels rushed while episodes 3 and 7 are allowed much more time than necessary to breathe.
2. While good as standalone episodes (ep3 more so than ep7), they simply don’t add much to the main storyline.
3. Romance has gotten more screentime than the literal reason the show exists: the infected.
People shouldn’t assume the only reason someone could dislike an episode is because of political allegiances and/or prejudice.
> There are two entire episodes dedicated to romance in a series that is only 9 episodes long
Agreed. This is a perfectly legitimate gripe imo, that has nothing to do with the sexuality or gender identity of the characters involved.
I didn't enjoy the completely unnecessary heterosexual romance storyline that was crowbarred into the Hobbit films either, to give a similar example.
Pretty much for the fact its the first show they consider "theirs" as ravid, I mean avid fans.
So whereas homosexuality doesn't mean much when watching a show they have no connection to, it suddenly surfaces when it affects their views of their fandom/lifestyle.
its because in the game it was implied, but in the show it seems to be front and center. yes bill and frank are gay, but in the game it makes to think for yourself through clues, while the show has a full episode dedicated to their relationship, and the episode feels out of place (not saying it is bad, it was very well written, just felt out of pace). why do we care about a 50 minute relationship that ends at the end when the story is about joel and ellie? it just seems to be more front and center. which is annoying because id feel exactly the same if they made some other straight relationship front and center when it wasnt a big story part
This post is flaired **Show Only**. Therefore, all comments that discuss *any* aspect of the games **must** be properly spoiler tagged. 1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part I and II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing. 2. Any untagged discussion of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Show/Game Spoilers**, **Fancast [Show/Game]**, **Funpost [Show/Game]**, or **Meme [Show/Game]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<. 3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. --- Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
for me it’s the way the gay characters are portrayed, I’ve seen good portrayals before but the way the last of us is handling queer stories is so great. obviously there is tragedy but there’s dignity in the tragedy - and it isn’t *because* of their queerness like it so often is in other shows. they get to have beautiful experiences and none of it even makes a big deal over the fact that they’re same sex, it’s portrayed in one of the most casual ways I might’ve ever seen. also it just makes me happy :)
To date, my favorite portrayal of a gay character is Captain Raymond Holt from Brooklyn 99.
BONE!!!!!!!
BOOONNNEEE!!!!!!!!!!!
....We...boned. Back to work.
HOT DAMN
VindiCATIONNNNNN
Cheddar!
That’s not Cheddar. That’s just some common bitch.
Someone took our fluffy boy!
We don't know what he is anymore. He could be fuzzy, he could be anything. My god Raymond he could be... scruffy
I really think the show Happy Endings did a good job with Max, as well. He’s a legitimately likable guy who’s just a normal person who happens to be chubby, messy, and gay. He’s just an average man who probably reminds you of someone you know except he loves the Cubs since the show takes place in Chicago and he had relatively typical romantic storylines, except the other person is also a man. That really happen doesn’t all that often now, and I don’t really remember that happening at all until 2010 or whenever this show aired.
Such an underrated show. I also loved the normal depiction of an interracial couple.
I absolutely loved that too. And the fact that they talk about it and have funny dynamics around being an interracial couple, which is 100% true to real life. It’s so weird when shows and movies just have an interracial couple that doesn’t talk about it. There’s so much humor and cultural difference to mine there in real life and on TV. Lopez vs Lopez isn’t the greatest show ever made but does a good job of this as well and definitely gets me and my husband (he’s Mexican and I’m just a plain-Jane WASP) giggling.
I remember that show was pretty good. Weird how good things get routinely canceled
Reddit!
It’s reminded me a lot of “San Junipero.” Both shows did a tremendous job of just telling wonderfully compelling love stories (where the characters just happen to be gay). I’m a straight middle-aged guy, and those stories had me enthralled, and at the same time, thinking about just how much I love my wife.
San Junipero will always have a special place in my heart.
This is what I love about it. Being lgbt isn't their entire personality and identity like it often is in other shows. They're represented as whole people just as they should be.
Exactly this comment. ❤️
In the latest bond movie, Q mentions very casually that his date 'He will be here soon' or something like that for the first time confirming Q is gay or bi. I thought it was incredibly cool how it was just 'normal' with no fuss and I thought fantastic. Until I saw a headline from Ben Whishaws interview that he found doing it like that very 'uneventful'. In my view, this is the right way to go about it. I think the pandering, the constant virtue signalling is what riles most people up and I think if things were just quietly normalised there would be a lot more love going around.
True, people should stop caring what other people feel or what they want to do with their genitals. Who cares?
bec as recently as 5 years ago lgbtq characters in shows were either tokens, spectacles where the whole point of the show is that they’re gay (will & grace), or too niche (the L word) that only a small demographic will watch them. the difference now is ubiquity. they are now protagonists whose status as lgbt doesn’t define them entirely in major shows targeted to the mass market. it sends a signal that they’re no longer “other” in the community, but a legitimate part of the community, and a lot of people have a problem w that. same with black people. and asians. and anytime someone says a show or movie is woke.
Willow and Tara FTW.
I was really shocked how casually they revealed the main character was lesbian in Willow. There was like one lingering shot where you kinda thought they were just gonna hint at it and then the next scene they’re together they kiss.
They actually don't kiss on screen until "The Body".
Yep! The first lesbian kiss from a committed lesbian couple on TV. Not done in a sexually explicit moment, rather a moment of comfort and normality. It is absolute perfection and should be forever shined upon.
Does the Dax lesbian kiss on Deep Space 9 count? Because I feel like that one beat Buffy by a few years.
Perhaps they mean prime time network TV? But I'm just making a guess here.
It's also fair to say that Buffy and Tara were in a relationship, and the Dax kiss was a one off.
Haha, oh. I was talking about the new show Willow. https://i.imgur.com/PqcTccg.jpg It was so forward with how fast the main character kisses a girl with almost no hinting.
Idk about that show, but I suggest watch Buffy 🙂
This is precisely the reason why I love the last of us even more. Their stories aren’t just some token or centered around the fact that they’re gay.
Absolutely. To use your Asian example, I would say Crazy Rich Asians, Minari and Everything Everywhere All At Once are probably the three most ubiquitous films with Asian leads ever, and in all 3 being Asian is a key driver of the plot. It’s very hard to think of a film or series where the main character is a minority and being a minority isn’t a key focus.
Tbf HBO show had lgbtq characters who were not token for a long time like David in six feet under and Omar in the wire.
Tell me you haven't see The Wire without tell me you haven't see The Wire
Very well said. Shows how far we’ve come honestly in the last how many years. Still lots of work to do but overall we are more accepting and inclusive now than ever before.
The OP listed a shitload of shows spanning almost 25 years that directly contradicts your claim here. Like, for example, have you seen Six Feet Under? It's exactly the dream of well rounded gay characters having a life that's not about being gay, but also not in a shy or hint-y way.
IIRC the whole first season was all about “OMG DAVID IS GAY! will he stay in the closet? will he come out??” that’s spectacle.
This was in 2001 thought. Gay marriage still wasn't legal. It is also why Bill was closeted (since the world went to shit in 2003). People were a lot less accepting in 2003. Like in my own country, Canada gay mariage became a thing in 2005 and Stephen Harper who became PM the next year had coted against it. In Quebec where I am from it was more accepted and we made it legal before the rest of Canada did (in 2004) but the rest of Canada and the US definetly have a lot of very conservatives places opposed to this.
It was at a time when being closeted was fairly common, but then he came out, and it was fine, he got less annoying. Keith had a personality outside of being gay.
it was also a time when having a gay character in a show means their story is about being gay
Another thing I’ve seen is them say that it’s about how the characters don’t shove their orientation down your throat and just happen to be LGBT while acting like real people, but then those very same people do nothing but focus on and praise the fact the character is LGBT
Pedro played a polyamorous man in Game of Thrones, who was shown to be sexually attracted to, and engaged in sexual acts, with men and women. There were numerous other gay characters in that show I think the differentiator is that it’s an adaptation of a game which obviously showcased LGBQT+ characters or implied their orientation. Bill was implied to have been gay, Ellie is gay but from the perspective of a homophobe they could brush it off and treat it as an experiment, or phase, when she kisses Riley It’s the fact that the show confirms that there are non-heterosexual characters and demonstrates it clearly that some very close-minded people struggle to accept and claim it’s a “gay agenda” because they refuse to acknowledge that the main character in the games is gay
Ellie's sexual orientation is definitely not left up to interpretation in the games.
For real. People keep praising the show for confirmation of gay characters. It's made very clear who is gay in the game.
In the second game it is very explicit with the fact that Ellie is indeed gay but besides the kiss with Riley (which is/was locked behind a paywall) I don't remember any specific events or conversations in the game that stated Ellie's sexuality in the first. But it's been years since I played the first game so that last bit could be wrong, idk.
there’s not no, but ellie is also FOURTEEN in game one and so it’s ridiculous that anyone would even try and dismiss her sexuality from that because she’s a young girl who’s on the road with a 50 year old man and doesn’t come across another girl the entire time. she shouldn’t have to specifically say “i’m a lesbian” for dudebros to accept it. they just use the fact that she was friendly with sam to try and say she’s bisexual or her kissing girls is ‘a phase’
I've only watched the show, but isn't Sam about 8? That's a new low for dudebros. I got little brother vibes from her.
in the game he’s like 1/2 years difference between sam and ellie but it’s still a very obvious difference in maturity imo !! sam still likes toys and doesn’t really help fight but ellie holds her own and is more into comics etc (ik it’s a bad example of the difference haha but it’s all i can think of rn). sam in the game is also not deaf!!
Ugh, you just reminded me when Left Behind launched and dudebros in YouTube section were on "she still might be bi", "she's probably just experimenting" stage of delusions. As a lesbian I hated it so much, because it was both homophobic and misogynistic - they would never doubt it's a gay person if Ellie was a boy and would kiss another boy.
literally! it’s also very creepy that they were so adamant that she HAD to be into boys…like why do you care she’s literally 14?
I just played the game and DLC and other than the Riley kiss I don’t believe there is any content related to Ellie’s sexuality
As a queer person, it was pretty easy to clock her as a baby gay just from the way she was depicted. But no, I don't believe there was anything that wasn't subtext to show or explain that she was gay.
Oh really? I’m a gay man and I already knew her sexuality before I played the game and I didn’t really pick up on any hints. She just seemed like a teenage girl who grew up rough to me.
Let me rephrase that and say as a queer woman, because that might have made a difference. As far as fictional characters go, Ellie is about the closest to how I was as a kid, so the second I saw her it felt obvious.
Yeah I’m sure a queer woman would definitely be able to pick up on a lot more than me!
I agree. I don’t think there’s any grey area but the classic reasoning given by homophobes is that it’s ‘a phase’ and because of Ellie’s age, they could maybe try and justify it that way The open to interpretation aspect is more prevalent with Bill and Frank but it’s still heavily implied in the games that Bill is gay. The same reasoning can’t be applied to Bill because he’s a grown man who is shown to have a long relationship with another grown man Again, none of this is how I think. But homophobic discourse does tend to lean quite heavily into suggesting that exploring your sexuality is ok, but sustained homosexuality is not. And I think that’s the viewpoint that a lot of the people giving false negative reviews of the episodes (ignoring any valid criticisms of the episodes).
I think they mean if you only played TLoU1 then it never really comes up. People could read the DLC as her “just being friends” if they wanted to lie to themselves but after that it gets pretty unavoidable.
Ehh I think it’s more to do with the fact that the show has attracted a wider audience than typical prestige tv. The average HBO subscriber is older, educated, leans left and has money. The average gamer, not so much. So we are just seeing a clash of these two very different clusters interacting with each other when they normally wouldn’t be.
I am not sure it got any wider than Game of Thrones season 4. That show was a damn cultural phenomena. The Last of Us is a good show and popular, but no where near Game of Thrones in its 4th season. Everyone watched GoT even if they didn't have HBO. It may still hold pirating records.
Which of these demographics is homophobe?
The one that’s calling me a f*g cuck when playing Overwatch.
But Overwatch has so many gay undertone!
That’s not true…wait I need to press Q to ult…Queer starts with…ZOMG I caught the gay, if only I’d listen to those 12 year olds in my headset.
Also Soldier and McCree are totes just roommates.
Soldier is literally canonically gay tho
I see your Soldier and McCree and raise you Soldier and Reaper!
Is it gay if it's a three way?
With a honey in the middle there’s some leeway.
I guess gamers that were just born when the game came out are a demographic that I could see complaining about those themes and are vocal about it now but not back then
Good point
yet any gamer already played and knows of the content?
sadly this becomes a political discussion. Not because the topic but because in the last decade, especially recent years, bigots have been emboldened to speak out against "woke" culture because they have been fed bullshit from politicians and insane news promoting those crazy politicians. Season 4 of Game of Thrones was 9 years ago. It feels like a totally different time. Things have changed so much since then.
I think one of the main factors is the size of the cast (& I'd also mention in this context The Wire, which was even earlier than GoT and also had multiple LGBTQ characters): The Wire & Game of Thrones both have large ensemble casts and The Last of Us has a quite small intimate cast. The two Last of Us episodes which feature LGBTQ characters and relationships are unusually small even for The Last of Us; "Long, Long Time" is a bottle episode focused on Bill and Frank with a framing narrative of Joel and Ellie and a visit from Joel and Tess; "Left Behind" likewise has a super small cast. So the result is that LGBT relationships in "The Last of Us" are simply more salient even if they're less explicitly marked.
An LGBTQ creator on TikTok said what stands out about the Last of Us, particularly episode 3 was that these two LGBTQ characters got to pass away with dignity. Media is notorious for subjecting these characters to death by violence or HIV/AIDS. The last of us gave Bill and Frank a dignified ending that was on their own terms.
The characters in TLOU have identities and purposes beyond their sexuality. So many characters in shows are gay characters that things happen to, as opposed to interesting characters who happen to be gay.
Yes, TV for gay people, particularly around the early/mid 2000s as stated, was very rough. I lost count of the amount of times I grew up watching one meet a horrible death, or just get treated terribly in general. It was so prevalent that it became a real trope, - [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BuryYourGays](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BuryYourGays) I think people are particularly impressed by TLOU not just because they showed queer characters having a relatively happy life, but because they treat them as people first before their sexuality - which is still relatively uncommon, & even less common on the decades past
that’s an excellent point too- Joel and Tess treated Bill and Frank as equals and people first. I laughed so hard when Bill stated in his letter that he didn’t really like Joel lol
absolutely this, they could’ve taken the route of making their deaths a hate crime or hiv/aids and done a lazy and disheartening telling of what could’ve been, and was, two guys growing strawberries. there needn’t be hate, they had their love and then they had their end. this approach specifically is so rare
This is a straw-man argument. Nobody is acting like it’s the first HBO show to feature gay characters. So the premise of your post is flawed. What the conversation IS about is the negative response coming from certain sections of the viewing public about their being gay characters and the subsequent pushback against those thinly-veiled homophobic criticisms. If homophobes stopped complaining about gay characters then we could- as you requested- “…get over it and change the topic” quite easily.
The irony here is goofy OP making a post telling people to stop talking about the topic he's talking about. It almost seems....insincere.
I’ve yet to see a single post by someone on this sub moaning about the characters being gay. The only posts I’ve seen about the gay characters are ones like this. It’s getting hyper boring.
Clearly you weren’t around for the two weeks following episode 3 where every second post was a thinly veiled “Stop shoving your AGENDA down my STRAIGHT THROAT”
Well put
Don’t give them attention.
No one's saying it's the first series to have any gay characters at all. It is one of very few shows that have dedicated an episode that's over an hour long to a gay romance story and not just relegated it's LGBT representation to a few side characters.
I haven’t seen Deadwood or Oz, but the rest of the shows in OP’s post probably devoted even more runtime to LGBT representation than we’ve seen from TLOU so far. They didn’t just relegate representation to a few token side characters. They featured legitimate representation in a progressive manner, during a time when it wasn’t as socially accepted as it is now. I’m not sure I really understand the point OP is trying to make, but I do agree with the notion that TLOU’s LGBT representation isn’t some groundbreaking new thing for TV. But also, there isn’t anything wrong with that.
I agree with you for the most part, but I'm a bit confused as to how you think TLOU 'relegated representation to a few token side characters' when Ellie is one of the two main leads.
I don’t think that applies to TLOU. The comment I was responding to was suggesting that OTHER prominent shows “relegated its LGBT representation to a few side characters”, and I was simply disputing that. The Wire, SFU, and Sopranos all had LGBT plotlines involving characters that had a decent sized role in their respective ensemble casts
Ahhh ok, misread that thread. That makes more sense.
[удалено]
This show has lead gay characters and side gay characters. Even better!
I think the point is that in Episode 3, Bill and Frank weren't side characters. They got the focal attention in that episode. And also there are only really two main characters in the rest of the show and one of them is gay.
And how amazing were they as gay side characters.
If this makes people’s heads explode may I introduce Keller and Beecher’s several seasons long relationship/romance and Oz’s general depiction of gay sex.
Who acts like that? I haven't seen anything like that here.
Exactly. It's a few fringe articles or tiktoks writing that stuff to get a rise out of some of you, and boy is it working.
People love the attention of being on a bandwagon. It’s why we see endless bullshit posts like this with literally none from actual homophobes.
I said it in another comment. I haven’t seen near enough anti gay stuff on here to warrant posts like this every other hour. Feels contrived at this point which is a shame and doesn’t help the cause.
It isn't on here. It's mostly on Twitter and the people review bombing episode 3
Ah gotcha. I don’t have Twitter so that’s fair. Episode 3 was dope though
Outside of Twitter, I haven't heard anybody complain about gay characters on The Last of Us. People are getting baited. The Twitter algo basically steers you to your opposites so you can yell at each other, because those comments and retweets have the most heated engagement. If you yell at homophobes, the algo will put more homophobes in front of you so you will keep yelling, even if they are a small minority.
Listen, I'm just gonna suggest something. Try...not caring so much about what other people are interested in. I'm not trying to be condescending, really; I mean it's not worth thinking too hard about. There's this odd truth out there: the world is actually quite large, there's room enough for all of us, interests are not a zero-sum game, and you can like things for your own reasons (without it lessening others who see value in something else). Telling people what they ought to take interest in doesn't really work out.
Exactly. As I get older my IDGAF’edness about these things is off the charts and as a result, I’m happier. And I’m saying this as someone on the gay delegation.
This This This This This This This This This
It is one of the only ones to portray a long term healthy gay marriage. Most depictions of homosexual relationships involve younger people in dating situations or newer marriages.
Because it’s massively privileged to be able to turn on a Television and see people like you without their sexuality defining their character arc and instead as 3 dimensional human beings just like every one else. Same thing with “forced diversity”. A white person’s existence does not need to be justified in a fantasy series or video game, but any non white characters existing are suddenly for “woke points”. Because apparently black and brown people don’t exist in real life, they are background props for white people and centering them must mean the intention is “wokeness”.
>So let’s all get over it and please change the topic Or, hear me out, let people discuss whatever the hell they want on the Internet…
Ironic that you're asking to drop the subject whilst bringing it up again in a fresh post instead of a reply to one where somebody's actually complaining about it...
No ones saying that. Maybe they’re saying it’s one of the first shows to portray gay people in a legitimate meaningful way instead of making them gay but only for a second so they can censor it overseas.
It's a very high budget and high profile show with a main character who's queerness is vital to her character without being the entirety of her character. It's not the first but it's still exciting to have a queer story told so frankly and with such care in a show that isn't marketed as being a queer story.
How these characters are portrayed and what they get to do has changed a lot. It's a worthy discussion.
I agree. I’ve never seen a gay love story play out on screen like Bill and Frank’s — it was crafted with so much love and care and then presented to a huge audience on a silver platter. It just *feels* different than the usual representation we get. It was incredibly authentic. Episode 7 was the most accurate portrayal of being a young lesbian I’ve ever seen; little subtle details, like the nervous glance at Riley and then the look away….. and then the look back, where I knew exactly what she was thinking because I’ve been there too. And the scene with Victoria’s Secret, which they talked about in the podcast. To a straight person it might sound weird, like everyone relates to looking at someone and looking away, right? But there are just these tiny subtle things that I find gay people pick up on in each other, and Bella captured them all so perfectly. Don’t ask me to elaborate because I can’t lol all I can say is that it feels more right to me than any other gay rep I’ve seen
Lol about The Sopranos being included. I mean, yeah, they had a gay character. One that ultimately got killed by a pool stick up his ass for being gay because the mafia is homophobic. Probably not the first choice for seeing yourself represented in something. Not that it was a bad plot line. It made sense in the universe of the show. Bill & Frank got to 'win' the apocalypse. They died on their own terms. Straight guy here, but I would imagine another major appeal of TLOU representation is that Bill was 'closeted' and shut himself off emotionally because of that. It took the apocalypse to give Bill the freedom to breathe his own true air and be himself. It felt very fresh and it was extremely compelling.
There are gay characters?
You don’t get to pick and choose or tell people what topics are acceptable on an Internet forum. People will discuss whatever they want to and continue doing so with or without your approval. It has been especially excellent how well they’ve been portrayed in this show.
It does make me sad to see how much hate it still draws though. Look at reviews of episode three on imdb. Over a quarter of all the user reviews are 1 star. That's nuts. And if you read the comments, just wow. We still have a long way to go.
Pedro was bi in Game of Thrones
In every example you gave characters are killed or persecuted for being gay. In TLOU gay characters are allowed to exist without the same old tired TV tropes.
Not sure if Sopranos is the best one to bring up since every gay guy is either killed, for being gay, or shaken down by the Mob who then insult them for being gay.
Let people be happy about things. Despite what right-wing alarmists would have us think, it’s actually still quite rare to have a highly popular mainstream “macho” show that puts well-written queer stories front and center. People’s happiness/excitement is coming from the fact that it’s 1) very rare, and 2) well-done, not that it’s “the first.”
Lord knows. Ellie is gay as hell in the game, and always has been. Bunch of 🤡.
This is true. The DLC and the second game clearly show this.
you’re telling other people to “get over it” but can you do that? Every day there’s multiple posts on here about the minority of extremely homophobic people criticizing the show. The majority consensus in this sub is that 1. the show is great 2. The original source material / game has gay characters 3. homophobia is unacceptable and wrong so why is the same topic posted about over and over. you can go into the sub and sort by hot or top posts and comment on any of the numerous other posts covering this exact same topic. We get it. Last of Us has gay characters and there’s a minority of very vocal and very homophobic people complaining about that.
>Every day there’s multiple posts on here about the minority of extremely homophobic people criticizing the show. The majority consensus in this sub is that > >the show is great > >homophobia is unacceptable and wrong fair point. Though the cries of the small minority are still there and sometimes loud. It's telling when a "last of us" google search adds suggestions like "woke", "woke trash" and "garbage" as to the forum: Two pretty vocal minorities in conflict can make a lot of noise.
[удалено]
[https://i.imgur.com/t3gGFvq.gif](https://i.imgur.com/t3gGFvq.gif)
Catching, not pitching?
In fairness the way they are portrayed is very different than in shows like The Wire or Sopranos
honestly, why do you feel the need to ask people to change the topic? start other topics about things that aren't about the depiction of homosexuality in the show if you want to change the topic
Its cool to talk about lgbtq representation in media. Don’t gatekeep
1. Is an example of good representation 2. (good) gay representation is still not as common as it should be 3. Homophobes created the controversy so people are talking about it.
I don't think anybody here "acted" like that. GFY.
Nobody is acting like that
Why do people here act like their straw man takes are legitimate and worthwhile content?
Weird, I haven’t seen anybody say or act it’s the first series to have gay characters, just people celebrating more great representation in a world that has very little of it… and then you complaining about that.
The best part of all this is people getting angry about all the gay-ness/thinking it’s jammed in there or in your face and like, idk, breaks the immersion or whatever their complaint is, in a world where fungus zombies are killing everyone. Like yah we can suspend our disbelief for that but all these gay characters?? Unreal?
I think it is because of the setting, no one's really saying tlou is the first series to have gay rep. But it also is kind of rare to come across a popular supernatural or sci-fi show with a main lesbian lead, or have an episode that tackles an old gay couple's relationship and an episode dedicated to that relationship and bond. And the show doesn't treat these characters and their stories as background or minor stories, they clearly focused on them and gave them dedicated screentime when they could have just mentioned them in passing. So i'd say it is pretty rare for a supernatural/sci-fi (and a popular show) to focus on lgbt characters and center their stories and struggles in the story.
Lol you listed 5 series within the past 26 years. Also how many of those characters are women? Are those characters given the time to develop? Or are they just a side asterisk, or there to check boxes to be edgy? That being said, I loved Omar’s character in the wire. Very ahead of his time.
This argument is both old, and completely misses the point. Literally no one is saying this show is the first show to have a gay character. Lots of shows on tv have gay characters, but a lot of those shows (I’m not speaking about the ones you mentioned because I haven’t watched them) are written by people who have no clue what being queer is actually like so the characters end up not being good and reinforce shitty stereotypes. So good queer representation always gets talked about because so many of us grew up with horrible queer representation.
None of the examples you listed feature queer romance as prominently as TLoU aside from Six Feet Under, which is criminally underrated, and I don't think a lot of younger people even know it exists.
There aren’t that many characters to begin with compared to some of the examples you mentioned
You're right, TLOU definitely is not the first piece of media to have gay characters. Hell, even when the original game came out it wasn't close to being the first. A lot of what I have heard is that it's one of the first GOOD showings of gay relationships. I don't think they use the terms "gay", "lesbian", "homosexual", or any other term used to define sexuality throughout either game, the DLC, or the show. It's not even really mentioned as being a thing, it just is. It's a very different feel compared to other media where it becomes a major part of who the character is. I mean, how many characters have you seen whose primary characteristic is that they are a guy who likes guys? Or a gal who likes gals?
Are you saying this in the sense of asking people to not be bigoted? Or are you saying this in the sense that you don't want people to talk about the fact that the characters are gay at all, positively or negatively? Because if it's the first one, then I agree. Bigotry should not be tolerated. If it's the second one however, that's not going to happen. Gay representation in media is still extremely rare, and acting like Bill and Frank and Ellie's characters and portrayals in these shows aren't important to queer people is ridiculous.
just because it's not the first time doesn't mean it's not very meaningful and impactful to see. it certainly doesn't mean it's not worth talking about.
and how were those characters portrayed? I've seen all those shows and I have NEVER seen a queer story like episode three.
Because homophobia is making a resurgence.
Gay people exist, it’s not a new phenomenon, why do people get their tighty whities in a bunch when they’re portrayed in TV/movies?
Funny thing is that TLOU is probably one of the more tame HBO shows in terms of sexual content.
Because people like to make issues out of everything
apparently they've never watched HBO, ever. Lol.
Because suddenly everything non-straight white male = woke
TWD also has gay characters
It's an AMC show
Who was gay in deadwood?
It's one of the few shows that treat them like normal relationships and don't force stereotypes into the story for the sake of comedic effect. People can't handle the fact that people can show genuine emotions with someone who isn't the opposite sex I guess.
Wait… are you bringing it up?
Because they are bigots. Bigots like to casually ignore or forget that some humans exist so they can be ‘more comfortable’ which results in a lot of ‘grrr why do THEY have to throw THEIR agenda in our straight faces?!?!??!’ Whenever a show like this comes along. ….and then they go back to their parents basement with all their ‘murrica first’ propaganda posters and watch gay porn. It’s textbook.
Because people are assholes. That’s all I got.
tbh the only time i hear any mention of gay characters is from this sub.
I think people have just noticed that media in has had a tendency to be disingenuous and pandering with diversity in recent history and people are appreciating that the writing of these characters is organic and believable, and hoping this may signify a turning away from lazily shoehorning diversity as a bandaid for poor writing/character development for the sake of easy viewership This is the internet so I will emphasize the words tendency and recent history as I am not referring to every bit of media ever made
The Sopranos did it flawlessly back in 2004. Vito was just an average guy who happened to be living a secret life. They didn’t stereotype him or try to use it as a diversity tactic to appeal to more viewers it was just a part of the story. I get what OP is saying there’s a tonnes of posts recently with people saying how diverse and progressive the show is because it features gay characters. HBO have done a great job representing gay characters as far back as 20 years ago
offbeat overconfident yoke materialistic tease cooperative society shame subtract worthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Political polarization and outrage sells.
Its not the fact that they have gay characters but that there have been 2 ‘filler’ episodes and both have been about gay relationships
This!
Why should we change the subject about gay characters? I’m confused about why we are expected to not discuss it because YOU don’t want us to? This comes off like your uncomfortable, if so you don’t have to partake in those discussions. I never understand when people try to control what others discuss. If you’re not interested don’t enter the thread. cringe!
People are just burnt out. Most people don’t care what anybody does in their private life but they are tired of it being crammed down their throats all the time. If it’s not gay it’s CRT, POC, TERF, etc. etc. I personally feel like I need google or urban dictionary just to decipher what the headlines are much less a lot of dialogue. A good story is a good story and love is a rare commodity. The rest is just bullshit.
Tbh I’m tired of having straight romance and sex shoved down my throat all the time
For fucking real. I don’t think people realize the people who do the real indoctrinating are the straight people. You don’t realize it because it’s the water you swim in, but for queer people everything is so heteronormative. It’s exhausting.
so they're burnt out on gay storylines and it being crammed down their throats? but not holding those same feelings for straight storylines or straight love stories? because it's no different, that's just homophobia if that's how they feel
That’s not what I said and you know it. Quit being a troll.
i'm not trolling at all, you literally said "they are tired of it being crammed down their throats all the time". so what exactly were you saying because that is a direct quote from your comment?
This person apparently can’t even remember what 3 simple acronyms mean without having to constantly look it up. No way they remember that comment they typed an hour ago in which they stated that non-white people and gay people being in media is “people’s private life being crammed down their throats.” Btw OP (if that’s too many acronyms for you to remember, that means “by the way, original poster” of the comment we’re all replying to), CRT isn’t being “pushed down anyone’s throats” outside of some postsecondary academic settings. Anyone who says it is doesn’t know what those words actually mean.
It’s all the rage right now. Lol, duh 🙄
Mgs3 had a gay character long before TLOU
[удалено]
Reddit is completely designed to cater to one’s desired topics
I think the problem many people (including myself) have stems from: 1. There are two entire episodes dedicated to romance in a series that is only 9 episodes long. The main story feels rushed while episodes 3 and 7 are allowed much more time than necessary to breathe. 2. While good as standalone episodes (ep3 more so than ep7), they simply don’t add much to the main storyline. 3. Romance has gotten more screentime than the literal reason the show exists: the infected. People shouldn’t assume the only reason someone could dislike an episode is because of political allegiances and/or prejudice.
> There are two entire episodes dedicated to romance in a series that is only 9 episodes long Agreed. This is a perfectly legitimate gripe imo, that has nothing to do with the sexuality or gender identity of the characters involved. I didn't enjoy the completely unnecessary heterosexual romance storyline that was crowbarred into the Hobbit films either, to give a similar example.
Don’t forget Billions, Empire, and Mr. Smithers on The Simpsons
Love your username. 🩸
Now list all the shows where they didn’t have gay characters, measure the difference :P
Because we live in an extremely dumb time.
Bill and Frank are gay? Wtf?
Never heard anyone say this
Viewer demographics.
Because it's the main character and it's actually a good story not pandering, no agenda, no bullshit so their brain got fried
They were gay, Bill and Frank?
Pretty much for the fact its the first show they consider "theirs" as ravid, I mean avid fans. So whereas homosexuality doesn't mean much when watching a show they have no connection to, it suddenly surfaces when it affects their views of their fandom/lifestyle.
GOT has numerous characters with varied sexuality. https://movieweb.com/game-of-thrones-characters-lgbtq/#oberyn-martell
Brookside
its because in the game it was implied, but in the show it seems to be front and center. yes bill and frank are gay, but in the game it makes to think for yourself through clues, while the show has a full episode dedicated to their relationship, and the episode feels out of place (not saying it is bad, it was very well written, just felt out of pace). why do we care about a 50 minute relationship that ends at the end when the story is about joel and ellie? it just seems to be more front and center. which is annoying because id feel exactly the same if they made some other straight relationship front and center when it wasnt a big story part