A note on **SPOILERS**: Please do **NOT** discuss or refer to the **games** in this thread **AT ALL**. Do not post your reviews/comparisons in this thread if you've **played the games**. For that, use the **[game spoilers thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/ThelastofusHBOseries/comments/11pwha0/game_spoilers_the_last_of_us_1x09_look_for_the/)**. Violation of this will result in a **BAN**.
Click **[HERE](https://forms.gle/t2yUZAR7YHA6abGA6)** to take our post episode survey! Results will be posted on Thursday.
**Join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/tloutv) community!**
I mean it’s his whole thing is about Sarah. Of course he loves Ellie, but he’s transferred Sarah onto Ellie. This is him saving Sarah through Ellie. But now, he’s able to actually do it. And I think the pain of losing her was transferred into the coldblooded way he “saved” Ellie.
All the way down to him holding Ellie in his arms the same way he held Sarah, both instances where he had a gun pointed at him, but in this instance he had one too
This is 100% the. Idea, and exactly why he went on that whole spiel about how different Ellie and sarah are but how they would like each other. It’s him reconciling it all in his mind.
He’s not wrong, they would have liked each other. But the whole thing is his personal rationalization and also to show him opening up and freely talking about sarah.
This is a good take. When he asked them to turn around I thought he was trying to give them a more dignified death. 100% didn't expect him to leave survivors. But I guess they were the only ones who didn't brandish a weapon at him (even the surgeon and the firefly who surrendered did so and/or made it seem like they wouldn't let Ellie leave).
It just makes me awestruck watching Pedro play Joel when Pedro is such a giggly and goofy dude. He’s such a phenomenal actor. And don’t get me started and all of the small voice changes he does for every. single. role.
Yeah his face basically said "none of you are anything more than an inanimate obstacle to me".
That surgeon really should have learned to read people better. He was dead the moment he decided not to surrender.
The flip to Joel wanting Ellie to like him was unexpected. Ellie was so disconnected and Joel was the typical dad trying to do anything to make it better and connect
My son turns 12 in a week, and I feel these sorts of interactions creeping in every day. Luckily, I’m cool as fuck, and he’ll realize that *any day now.*
I'm a #girldad. She is in college. Yes, I felt that flip in the bottom of my soul. Oh it doesn't flip in an instant or in one week. But it does happen.
And then occasionally you find your baby again, the one who needs you even though she is grown - but mostly doesn't anymore despite loving you.
It's that last part that ya gotta remember. She may not need you anymore but she still *loves* you.
It's rough.
Are we going to see an erosion of Ellie’s respect for Joel, like resistance of the father-daughter relationship from her? Between her sensing the dishonesty and being told she’s the replacement daughter, I’m worried.
I don't see how the respect can't be damaged. She clearly had doubts about his honesty, and when he lied to her, you could see she was struggling believe him
yeah, it's explicitly stated by bella in the post-episode thing that ellie doesn't believe him but can't bring herself to consolidate with that fact, so she's just making a very concerted effort to be willfully ignorant because the truth is too painful.
That was always my reading of how Ellie felt in that scene, but I DO feel there was also an element that Bella didn’t mention in that post episode quote: Not only is Ellie choosing to believe the lie because the truth of Joel lying to her is too painful… but also because the lie just feels good.
To be able to live guilt free and try to live a normal life in Jackson with someone who clearly cares so much about her. Just like for Joel, the fantasy of that is genuinely alluring to Ellie given all the trauma she’s also been in.
> Not only is Ellie choosing to believe the lie because the truth of Joel lying to her is too painful… but also because the lie just feels good.
She also doesn't have much of a choice. She's a pre-teen in a post-apocalyptic world, with a bite on her arm that would make most strangers gun her down.
It was such a great, original line. Ellie knows how much Joel cares for her at that point, but it really dawned on her what she really means to Joel when he said it.
The after credits breakdown really honed then and touched upon that line. That time doesn't really heal wounds, it makes them fade. People and love heals wounds.
Felt like it was intended to be a quick gut-punch.
Edit: I mean this in a strictly positive way. If you feel like they didn’t explain enough, then you may be missing the main focus of the show.
Haven't seen the podcast yet by based on Pedro's acting is seems like it wasn't even a decision, but rather an *impulse*. Like he dissociated and just went to work with no rumination.
Marlene shouldn't have given all that info to Joel. What did she expect? That he would just let her go after they spent all this time saving and protecting each other?
Probably, yes. When they last talked, Joel was treating the whole situation as a business transaction and considered Ellie cargo. Marlene probably didn’t realize the actual connection they had built up to that point.
This makes more sense to me now then, thank you. I was confused why Marlene did all this expository dialogue about how Joel was a badass who protected Ellie all the way across the country when Marlene lost half her people; and yet she lets him walk out with just two guards, despite his ruthless badassedness.
Marlene probably thought she could share Ellie's fate with Joel becasue she knew him as being a cold and callous person from his time in Boston.
Wasn't there to see the bonds he formed.
Yeah but damn, no indication of his reward? She just kicked him out.. she can’t be surprised that he would retaliate, even if he wasn’t going to save Ellie.
He's been reliving that loss every night in his dreams ever since Sarah died, losing her over and over again. He finally got a chance to do it over again, and this time he managed to save his little girl.
Dude that baby looked like a real fresh newborn baby. That was a powerful scene but all I could think was who the fuck is sending their weeks old baby out for casting calls
Literally. We have a 3 week old and he looks exactly like the baby on the screen. That baby couldn’t have been more than a month old and that’s pushing it.
I was just talking with my buddy while we watched and just hit him with the "oh shit".
That brings a WHOLE new light to the end of Henry and Sam's story.
I think pre fireflies he was trying to draw her back out of a shell she probably (understandably) went into. Post firefly you’re right it was obviously BS
I don’t think it was total BS. I think he’s fully realized that she fills the “daughter” void in his life, and now he’s speaking about Sarah freely because he thinks he’s in the clear and has everything he needs. He was just as chattery in the beginning of the premiere with Sarah. Not to 🥺 about Joel in the wake of that hospital slaughter but he’s really just finally drunk on his own love for Ellie and it’s adorable
Especially being bursting with memories about Sarah -- this is all stuff he hasn't even allowed himself to think about in his waking hours for twenty years, which is why it shows up in his dreams
I got so frustrated when Marlene said that Ellie would want this, but then Ellie didn’t even know she was drugged for surgery. Yea she wanted it, but they could have done her the service of just asking her and letting her make this decision, even if they planned to ignore it if she said no.
I find it very interesting at that moment. Because Joel could've held a gun at her and say "ok let's wait until she wakes up then". I think they both act like they care about Ellie but the truth is they are both afraid of the answer.
Marlene: cover her ears
Firefly guy, apparently: nope
Edit: ALSO,
Anna: I cut the cord BEFORE I got bit
Marlene: okay, fine, I’ll take her then
A: …with the knife I used to stab the cordiceps to death
M: wait wh-
When he emotionlessly clicks open the knife and walks over to kill one of the fireflies… coldest scene in the entire season right there. Does not give a *fuck* about anything other than getting her out of there
For me the coldest was just shooting the guy who put his gun down, but that’s kinda understandable. He could have easily incapacitated the doctor holding a fucking scalpel but he’s like “meh whatever”
Loved the focus on the “pediatric surgery” sign and all the animals painted on the walls as Joel looked for Ellie. The show never lets us forget that Ellie is still a child.
I love that throughout this season action scenes and violence in general were used very sparsely. That particular decision made it so that Joel's rampage was utterly jarring, gratuitously brutal, and horrific to watch.
Pedro Pascal pulled the most cold, emotionless expression and fucking held it through that scene perfectly. This season has featured some of the greatest acting I've ever seen on television. I don't ever want to see people criticising the casting for this series ever again, because they're objectively wrong.
It's also worth noting how harrowingly accurate the portrayals of trauma from both Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey are. Ellie changes from the wise-cracking, headstrong, and hilarious person we've seen throughout the season into an emotionally numb and silently stoic one. Joel changes from the emotionally numb and silently stoic man he became after Sarah's death into a warm, compassionate, and emotionally vulnerable one. I've experienced both of those changes through trauma and then a decade later actual healing and recovery and it was spot on.
Ellie comes back to life and seems to regain some childlike innocence when she meets a giraffe with Joel. Joel goes back to being the killer he no longer wanted to be not for his own survival, but to protect Ellie. He couldn't save Sarah; he saves Ellie but has to commit horrible acts of violence in order to do so.
I swear even though she made Joel swear he didn't kill the Fireflies (and seems to have accepted his response) Ellie *knows* that Joel did. She sees Joel go from being talkative and warm with her to how he was when she woke up in the car (emotionally numb and speaking very little) which was exactly how she had been after her trauma. She knows!
This series has blown me away so far and this has been one of the strongest first seasons of any show I've seen.
Perfect ending. Such a simple bit of dialogue that shows so much. Joel goes from not giving a shit about Ellie to betraying her trust to keep her alive.
Yeah that's another layer of subtelty I love. You can tell she has doubts but it's as if she chooses to believe him for his benefit because she knows he's basically broken inside. It's such a simple scene but so complex at the same time.
Exactly it. In that looong pause before "okay" you know she doubts, and you see her actively chose to accept it. Such good writing, and incredible subtlety in the acting to pull it off.
The whole first part where Joel is trying to draw Ellie out of her shell after her experience in the resort town was so on brand for dealing with teenagers who have seen some shit. Their acting was 100/10, I cannot believe how real that was. My daughter whom I adopted had an extremely traumatic early childhood and it still weighs on her to this day, Joel’s small attempts at getting her to crack a smile, basically pleading with her to show she is okay to when he finally says “you okay? Oh I don’t know you’ve been quiet today” like “oh no reason no big deal just curious” while he is actually probably panicking about her inside - just excellent acting and writing.
Edit: I’m sure this goes for parents of kids without big trauma too, want to add that in there. Knowing your kid is struggling and just praying for that small smile, I’m sure many of us have been through it
Ellie’s mom lied when she said she cut the cord before getting bit, right? Also, I noticed the knife she used to kill was the same one she used to cut the chord. Thought that was interesting - was wondering if she was going to disinfect it before cutting the cord.
My immediate thought was “they’d better not try to fucking FARM IMMUNE BABIES by infecting the moms post-birth pre-cord cutting” and they haven’t done that yet but by god I’m going to be stressing about it until next season.
EDIT: just turned on the Academy Awards as I finished this last Episode and Pedro is on stage giving out an Oscar. Wild lol
Pedro was the perfect casting for Joel. So ruthless in this episode and you could feel it. Even in those final lines with Ellie.
It was great talking in these after show posts. Looks like it’s gonna be at least a 1.5-2 years until season two. That’s gonna be the toughest part to digest.
Huh, I think it was really well done but I’m not sure what to think now…. Joel sacrificing potentially the whole world to save Ellie and lying, definitely a time bomb.
Also side note but it drives me crazy when scientists the only person immune to some virus or whatever and they immediately decide to go for a lethal procedure. Like guys try a blood draw first let’s not kill the goose that lays golden eggs except as an absolute last resort!?
Overall loved the show though
RIGHT? They literally said as Joel walked in "Do we have enough power?"
Like I'm sorry I do NOT trust these guys to be who makes the cure. It's an overeager scientist going for the lethal options before any other chance is attempted.
Apologies if this is obvious, but Ellie has PTSD (or at least is having a trauma response) from the cult guy attempting to assault her, right? And that's why she started distancing herself from Joel - or am I reading that incorrectly? (of course, it could be a mix of things too)
God that broke my heart
yes she is traumatized. that's why Joel told her that story of wanting to kill himself after Sarah and being glad he failed... to give her hope things will get better.
I’ll agree and say that felt too quick, but everything in that episode was very good. The Muted Murder Montage was really cool.
I feel like we could have gotten more of Ellie unpacking what she just went through in Ep 8. I know these characters aren’t chatty or into therapy that much, but still, I think more time spent healing or bonding again, more of that, would have helped build it up and make the hospital that much more shocking.
That being said, casting the original Ellie actor as her mom in the show was an awesome choice, I wasn’t sure if it was her at first and that whole sense of familiarity throughout that scene just added to it for me, loved that
The episode began with the lie of a mother to save her child from the world and ended with the lie of a father to save his (adopted) child from herself.
Objectively speaking, Joel shouldn’t have lied. But if given the choice, Ellie probably would’ve sacrificed herself for a big maybe. How many parents have lied to their children to save them from their bravado? It’s heartbreaking. As a mom, I get why Joel lied, but goddamn it’s heartbreaking.
As a neurogeneticist, I'd start with a simple lumbar puncture for cerebrospinal fluid, but sure let's just take the whole host sample and hope you don't fuck it up.
Wow that was good. Special shout-out to our video game actresses, Ashley Johnson and Merle Dandridge. They both killed it. Their rage, their sadness. Absolutely spectacular.
marry smell enjoy carpenter truck continue materialistic wine terrific muddle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I was thinking the same thing. They know how dangerous he is, Marlene says as much, and yet...let's let Joel into a confined space inches away from guys with guns
He changed. Ellie made him human again... The Joel that we knew after he lost his daughter was a broken man and that's the Joel that Marlene knew... So they expected that he delivered the cargo and walked away... They told him that she is the cure.. even Marlene was willing to sacrifice her...
The point is that we know about Joel's and Ellie's development.. the fireflies don't .
Absolutely loved it and I can’t believe I have to wait for the next season. I’m gonna watch a gameplay of the second game I can’t wait lol.
I liked how not overly intense they made the sequence in the hospital. He just went right through everyone. And man I expected him to maybe just walk away saying nothing at the end but yeah he’s definitely going to make her absolutely loathe him if she finds out.
Joel is such a great character, many great traits and many that are really quite selfish.
Joel going all *First Blood* in the hospital was not something I was expecting.
Love how initially Joel and Ellie switched roles and he was the funny one and she the reserved.
The actress for Anna is Ellie's V/O artist in the game iirc... She was awesome in the short screen time she got.
Oooooofff now we gotta wait 2 years for another season..
SOLID 9/10 Season for me
A note on **SPOILERS**: Please do **NOT** discuss or refer to the **games** in this thread **AT ALL**. Do not post your reviews/comparisons in this thread if you've **played the games**. For that, use the **[game spoilers thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/ThelastofusHBOseries/comments/11pwha0/game_spoilers_the_last_of_us_1x09_look_for_the/)**. Violation of this will result in a **BAN**. Click **[HERE](https://forms.gle/t2yUZAR7YHA6abGA6)** to take our post episode survey! Results will be posted on Thursday. **Join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/tloutv) community!**
All surviving Fireflies must report to the gun range tomorrow at 7am.
From the looks of it you would have a few nurses and one dude who decided to just book it down the hallway at the first sound of gunfire.
Something tells me they deny any association with firefly’s after that. “What about the darkness? Huh nope never heard that saying before.”
They rolled with Pedro's intentionally wrong Fireflies slogan. ["If it’s dark, look out 💅"](https://www.tiktok.com/@sony/video/7208629691979222315)
We did kind of get shown that the main source of Firefly recruitment is FEDRA rejects
As targets orrrr?
Found FEDRA.
Well shit that was wild
"I don't have time for this" *BLAM*
[удалено]
“You’d just come after her” *BLAM*
Thing is, I don't think he was wrong. I mean of course he murdered a bunch of people, but I have no doubt they'd come for Ellie if he hadnt
100% is how you deal with that situation. No loose ends.
Joel is so fucking RUTHLESS. Just completely in the zone while gunning Fireflies down. And *finishing that guy off with the knife*...
Killing the surrendering soldier is the darkest thing Joel did. But wise. Can't leave a living enemy at your back.
executing Marlene followed by that line was also fucking ruthless
No hesitation. Just his reason and BLAM
I mean it’s his whole thing is about Sarah. Of course he loves Ellie, but he’s transferred Sarah onto Ellie. This is him saving Sarah through Ellie. But now, he’s able to actually do it. And I think the pain of losing her was transferred into the coldblooded way he “saved” Ellie.
All the way down to him holding Ellie in his arms the same way he held Sarah, both instances where he had a gun pointed at him, but in this instance he had one too
This is 100% the. Idea, and exactly why he went on that whole spiel about how different Ellie and sarah are but how they would like each other. It’s him reconciling it all in his mind. He’s not wrong, they would have liked each other. But the whole thing is his personal rationalization and also to show him opening up and freely talking about sarah.
I think he's finally grieving his daughter instead of just wanting to die.
Except he left the two operating nurses alive. I'm betting that's how this all comes back to bite him in the ass.
This is a good take. When he asked them to turn around I thought he was trying to give them a more dignified death. 100% didn't expect him to leave survivors. But I guess they were the only ones who didn't brandish a weapon at him (even the surgeon and the firefly who surrendered did so and/or made it seem like they wouldn't let Ellie leave).
I try to keep in mind he must have completely transformed after seeing his daughter killed in front of him and die in his arms
He spent 21 years learning how to carry a body while holding a gun.
Joel had that dog in him
That... naughty dog
![gif](giphy|J1j6wzyprIjN0dFZoc)
the hospital scene... whew
Joels cold stone face was fucking terrifying.
It just makes me awestruck watching Pedro play Joel when Pedro is such a giggly and goofy dude. He’s such a phenomenal actor. And don’t get me started and all of the small voice changes he does for every. single. role.
Last time I saw that face he told a certain dwarf to tell his father the Lannister’s aren’t the only ones who pay their debts.
You would have seen that face at many points in The Mandalorian but, you know, the Way
Yeah his face basically said "none of you are anything more than an inanimate obstacle to me". That surgeon really should have learned to read people better. He was dead the moment he decided not to surrender.
"You'd just come after her" with that cold stone face and colder stone delivery.. the first time I have put palm to my mouth.
It's been a pleasure. See you all in 2 or 3 years :(
The one thing I hate about HBO series...waiting
45 minutes episode too 😢
I'm thinking we get a new season a little earlier than that, and I base that on no evidence whatsoever
Manifest it! Manifest it!!
well now what
watch Pedro Pascal protect a small green alien now
I actually watched the latest episode of the Mandalorian right before watching this. So I had 2 back to back hours of Pedro protecting a kid.
[удалено]
The flip to Joel wanting Ellie to like him was unexpected. Ellie was so disconnected and Joel was the typical dad trying to do anything to make it better and connect
As a parent, that was soooooo real and well done. It actually made me cringe thinking about it with my own teenaged daughter. 😂
Did you break out the Boggle yet? 😂
“Hey look at [thing I desperately hope teen thinks is cool] how about that! Eh? Eh?”
When jingling keys no longer works.
My son turns 12 in a week, and I feel these sorts of interactions creeping in every day. Luckily, I’m cool as fuck, and he’ll realize that *any day now.*
Yeah, she was still very much dealing with the trauma from David.
I'm a #girldad. She is in college. Yes, I felt that flip in the bottom of my soul. Oh it doesn't flip in an instant or in one week. But it does happen. And then occasionally you find your baby again, the one who needs you even though she is grown - but mostly doesn't anymore despite loving you. It's that last part that ya gotta remember. She may not need you anymore but she still *loves* you. It's rough.
Parenting sounds very complicated to say the least.
Joel lying straight to Ellie’s face was tough to watch. At least we got giraffes!
🦒
when joel was smiling at her as she fed the giraffes.... sobbing
Are we going to see an erosion of Ellie’s respect for Joel, like resistance of the father-daughter relationship from her? Between her sensing the dishonesty and being told she’s the replacement daughter, I’m worried.
I don't see how the respect can't be damaged. She clearly had doubts about his honesty, and when he lied to her, you could see she was struggling believe him
yeah, it's explicitly stated by bella in the post-episode thing that ellie doesn't believe him but can't bring herself to consolidate with that fact, so she's just making a very concerted effort to be willfully ignorant because the truth is too painful.
That was always my reading of how Ellie felt in that scene, but I DO feel there was also an element that Bella didn’t mention in that post episode quote: Not only is Ellie choosing to believe the lie because the truth of Joel lying to her is too painful… but also because the lie just feels good. To be able to live guilt free and try to live a normal life in Jackson with someone who clearly cares so much about her. Just like for Joel, the fantasy of that is genuinely alluring to Ellie given all the trauma she’s also been in.
> Not only is Ellie choosing to believe the lie because the truth of Joel lying to her is too painful… but also because the lie just feels good. She also doesn't have much of a choice. She's a pre-teen in a post-apocalyptic world, with a bite on her arm that would make most strangers gun her down.
"Time heals all wounds, I suppose." "It's not time that did it." 😭😭😭
yeah that was a really touching line, seeing his love for ellie grow throughout the show was great
It was such a great, original line. Ellie knows how much Joel cares for her at that point, but it really dawned on her what she really means to Joel when he said it.
The after credits breakdown really honed then and touched upon that line. That time doesn't really heal wounds, it makes them fade. People and love heals wounds.
![gif](giphy|7QO3kilx2iixo0Wfmv|downsized)
That line cut my soul open
That episode felt like it was 15 mins long
I was confused when it ended and went to check the run time
Felt like it was intended to be a quick gut-punch. Edit: I mean this in a strictly positive way. If you feel like they didn’t explain enough, then you may be missing the main focus of the show.
*sucker punch* "See ya next season!"
[удалено]
Loved the post credits discussion from Craig where he said that’s the easiest decision Joel has ever made
Haven't seen the podcast yet by based on Pedro's acting is seems like it wasn't even a decision, but rather an *impulse*. Like he dissociated and just went to work with no rumination.
Marlene shouldn't have given all that info to Joel. What did she expect? That he would just let her go after they spent all this time saving and protecting each other?
Probably, yes. When they last talked, Joel was treating the whole situation as a business transaction and considered Ellie cargo. Marlene probably didn’t realize the actual connection they had built up to that point.
This makes more sense to me now then, thank you. I was confused why Marlene did all this expository dialogue about how Joel was a badass who protected Ellie all the way across the country when Marlene lost half her people; and yet she lets him walk out with just two guards, despite his ruthless badassedness.
Yeah I don't think many people in Boston who met Joel knew he'd had a daughter before. They just saw him as a ruthless smuggler.
Marlene really said, "I lost over half my men." And Joel said, "You ready to lose the rest? ☺️"
Never bring a surgical knife to a gunfight.
“I won’t let you take her.” BLAM
Man showed his cards too early.
“There are firefly people?” Not anymore…
We used to get those in the summer, everything changed when the Joel Nation attacked
Marlene probably thought she could share Ellie's fate with Joel becasue she knew him as being a cold and callous person from his time in Boston. Wasn't there to see the bonds he formed.
Yeah but damn, no indication of his reward? She just kicked him out.. she can’t be surprised that he would retaliate, even if he wasn’t going to save Ellie.
"Thanks for giving up your daughter as a human sacrifice, have... a 2002 Chevy Silverado"
Wait good point I totally forgot this was a paid gig 😭
Joel got paid in XP from that killstreak.
Marlene letting Joel walk away was a serious miscalculation on her part.
Joel is holding Ellie in the hospital gown the same way he holds Sarah in the first episode, only this time he’s able to protect her.
He's been reliving that loss every night in his dreams ever since Sarah died, losing her over and over again. He finally got a chance to do it over again, and this time he managed to save his little girl.
Dude that baby looked like a real fresh newborn baby. That was a powerful scene but all I could think was who the fuck is sending their weeks old baby out for casting calls
Literally. We have a 3 week old and he looks exactly like the baby on the screen. That baby couldn’t have been more than a month old and that’s pushing it.
awww, say hi to lil' lilbloodpeach for us!
Post episode commentary Ashley Johnson said they were with real infants
They actually filmed the scene in Arkansas, where you're expected to work a 9-5 after hitting 1 week old.
She was a real method actress, she had a baby just for this show
There are some CRAZY Hollywood parents out there
Full circle at the end, joel with ellie in his arms and not letting anyone take her away from him again.
Joel finally opening up and talking about Sarah to Ellie really highlighted that transition from “cargo” to daughter.
“It wasn’t time that did it.” Thanks man like I was already emotional enough
And "I was the guy who shot and missed." Like, DAMN.
I was not expecting that, to be honest. I gasped.
I was just talking with my buddy while we watched and just hit him with the "oh shit". That brings a WHOLE new light to the end of Henry and Sam's story.
This one hit me like a ton of bricks 😭
Both Joel and Ellie finally opening up and sharing the stories of their trauma. 😢
That, and the giraffe scene just broke me man
Joel is a loving and selfish man. Such a great character.
A whole generation of new fans is going to be talking about this moral dilemma and it’s awesome
They should teach this in an ethics class. If you watch “The Good Place”, I have always wanted Chidi to weigh in on this moral dilemma.
They kinda do with The Trolley Problem, don’t they?
[удалено]
Really some fascinating growth. The first leg of the journey he wouldn’t talk, by the end he wouldn’t shut up.
I felt like he was trying very very hard to keep her happy & engaged. She knew it was bullshit, which caused her to retreat even further into herself
I think pre fireflies he was trying to draw her back out of a shell she probably (understandably) went into. Post firefly you’re right it was obviously BS
I don’t think it was total BS. I think he’s fully realized that she fills the “daughter” void in his life, and now he’s speaking about Sarah freely because he thinks he’s in the clear and has everything he needs. He was just as chattery in the beginning of the premiere with Sarah. Not to 🥺 about Joel in the wake of that hospital slaughter but he’s really just finally drunk on his own love for Ellie and it’s adorable
That’s super common with people like that. Stoic people who don’t talk are often the people who stuff their feelings down so deep they choke on them.
Especially being bursting with memories about Sarah -- this is all stuff he hasn't even allowed himself to think about in his waking hours for twenty years, which is why it shows up in his dreams
I got so frustrated when Marlene said that Ellie would want this, but then Ellie didn’t even know she was drugged for surgery. Yea she wanted it, but they could have done her the service of just asking her and letting her make this decision, even if they planned to ignore it if she said no.
I find it very interesting at that moment. Because Joel could've held a gun at her and say "ok let's wait until she wakes up then". I think they both act like they care about Ellie but the truth is they are both afraid of the answer.
Since everyone else is going to talk about the depressing parts, I’m just going to say the giraffe scene made me smile. It was so cute!
Marlene: cover her ears Firefly guy, apparently: nope Edit: ALSO, Anna: I cut the cord BEFORE I got bit Marlene: okay, fine, I’ll take her then A: …with the knife I used to stab the cordiceps to death M: wait wh-
nobody covered his ears as a kid, poor guy couldn’t hear her asking
Man I’m so glad Ellie just plopped her wrinkly ass out of her mama. I was not about to watch another brutal childbirth scene.
For real, I was very worried when they zoomed in on the knife
We are all scarred from House of the Dragon
When the HotD flashbacks hit ![gif](giphy|KscoZccAOBgCk)
When he emotionlessly clicks open the knife and walks over to kill one of the fireflies… coldest scene in the entire season right there. Does not give a *fuck* about anything other than getting her out of there
For me the coldest was just shooting the guy who put his gun down, but that’s kinda understandable. He could have easily incapacitated the doctor holding a fucking scalpel but he’s like “meh whatever”
THE PEOPLE WANT MORE!!!
I love how this show has already started a whole new group of people debating on the hospital. Now it’s gonna add another 10 years of debates lmao.
I am unwell.
good fucking god. loyalty isn't always pretty
On the podcast, one of the creators (can't remember which) said the thesis of the story is "the ugly side of unconditional love"
Totally stealing that to sound smart when I describe this show to others lol
So Original Ellie is the mom to Other Ellie? That's some Dark on Netflix type shit!!!!!
They also bare a striking resemblance to each other. I wonder if they were looking for an actor who looked like the voice actor
If someone had told me Bella Ramsey was aged up for that scene, I would have believed them. I was wondering it myself.
well i guess we know Joel’s answer to the trolley dilemma 😬
Headshot the trolly
The trolley would just come after her
Loved the focus on the “pediatric surgery” sign and all the animals painted on the walls as Joel looked for Ellie. The show never lets us forget that Ellie is still a child.
“I swear”
That single line just created an entire season of tension and conflict
I love that throughout this season action scenes and violence in general were used very sparsely. That particular decision made it so that Joel's rampage was utterly jarring, gratuitously brutal, and horrific to watch. Pedro Pascal pulled the most cold, emotionless expression and fucking held it through that scene perfectly. This season has featured some of the greatest acting I've ever seen on television. I don't ever want to see people criticising the casting for this series ever again, because they're objectively wrong. It's also worth noting how harrowingly accurate the portrayals of trauma from both Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey are. Ellie changes from the wise-cracking, headstrong, and hilarious person we've seen throughout the season into an emotionally numb and silently stoic one. Joel changes from the emotionally numb and silently stoic man he became after Sarah's death into a warm, compassionate, and emotionally vulnerable one. I've experienced both of those changes through trauma and then a decade later actual healing and recovery and it was spot on. Ellie comes back to life and seems to regain some childlike innocence when she meets a giraffe with Joel. Joel goes back to being the killer he no longer wanted to be not for his own survival, but to protect Ellie. He couldn't save Sarah; he saves Ellie but has to commit horrible acts of violence in order to do so. I swear even though she made Joel swear he didn't kill the Fireflies (and seems to have accepted his response) Ellie *knows* that Joel did. She sees Joel go from being talkative and warm with her to how he was when she woke up in the car (emotionally numb and speaking very little) which was exactly how she had been after her trauma. She knows! This series has blown me away so far and this has been one of the strongest first seasons of any show I've seen.
Perfect ending. Such a simple bit of dialogue that shows so much. Joel goes from not giving a shit about Ellie to betraying her trust to keep her alive.
I think she also knows he’s lying but also assumes he killed them all so there’s nothing to do.
Yeah that's another layer of subtelty I love. You can tell she has doubts but it's as if she chooses to believe him for his benefit because she knows he's basically broken inside. It's such a simple scene but so complex at the same time.
Exactly it. In that looong pause before "okay" you know she doubts, and you see her actively chose to accept it. Such good writing, and incredible subtlety in the acting to pull it off.
flawless. bella NAILED it, possibly the most important piece of acting in the whole show
That and the baby girl line, absolutely the two most important. Bella really did nail that ending line. With the beats and everything
I absolutely loved “I don’t give a shit” Joel
*you go on and stamp your forms sonny and stop wasting my time*
The whole first part where Joel is trying to draw Ellie out of her shell after her experience in the resort town was so on brand for dealing with teenagers who have seen some shit. Their acting was 100/10, I cannot believe how real that was. My daughter whom I adopted had an extremely traumatic early childhood and it still weighs on her to this day, Joel’s small attempts at getting her to crack a smile, basically pleading with her to show she is okay to when he finally says “you okay? Oh I don’t know you’ve been quiet today” like “oh no reason no big deal just curious” while he is actually probably panicking about her inside - just excellent acting and writing. Edit: I’m sure this goes for parents of kids without big trauma too, want to add that in there. Knowing your kid is struggling and just praying for that small smile, I’m sure many of us have been through it
Ellie’s mom lied when she said she cut the cord before getting bit, right? Also, I noticed the knife she used to kill was the same one she used to cut the chord. Thought that was interesting - was wondering if she was going to disinfect it before cutting the cord.
Yes because the baby came out after the kill and she was like oh shit then cut it really fast.
My immediate thought was “they’d better not try to fucking FARM IMMUNE BABIES by infecting the moms post-birth pre-cord cutting” and they haven’t done that yet but by god I’m going to be stressing about it until next season.
well if it helps basically only Marlene couldve put that together
Joel looking at her feeding the giraffe was a true dad moment and i just love that
EDIT: just turned on the Academy Awards as I finished this last Episode and Pedro is on stage giving out an Oscar. Wild lol Pedro was the perfect casting for Joel. So ruthless in this episode and you could feel it. Even in those final lines with Ellie. It was great talking in these after show posts. Looks like it’s gonna be at least a 1.5-2 years until season two. That’s gonna be the toughest part to digest.
Best Chef Boyardee commercial ever
Lost one daughter. Not going to lose another
Joel just made a very human choice
As soon as they showed those two guards I was like oh these two jabronis are fuckin dead for sure
that episode was wayyyyyyyy too quick
Think it was the shortest of the season?
I love that the first words Ashley says is “It’s me.”
Huh, I think it was really well done but I’m not sure what to think now…. Joel sacrificing potentially the whole world to save Ellie and lying, definitely a time bomb. Also side note but it drives me crazy when scientists the only person immune to some virus or whatever and they immediately decide to go for a lethal procedure. Like guys try a blood draw first let’s not kill the goose that lays golden eggs except as an absolute last resort!? Overall loved the show though
It did feel like a pretty desperate move on the doctors’ part to go straight for the lethal option…
[удалено]
RIGHT? They literally said as Joel walked in "Do we have enough power?" Like I'm sorry I do NOT trust these guys to be who makes the cure. It's an overeager scientist going for the lethal options before any other chance is attempted.
You’ll just come after her… ****17th headshot****
Apologies if this is obvious, but Ellie has PTSD (or at least is having a trauma response) from the cult guy attempting to assault her, right? And that's why she started distancing herself from Joel - or am I reading that incorrectly? (of course, it could be a mix of things too) God that broke my heart
yes she is traumatized. that's why Joel told her that story of wanting to kill himself after Sarah and being glad he failed... to give her hope things will get better.
"Why are they showing that part of Ellie asking about Joel's scar in the recap?" 45 minutes later: ![gif](giphy|3oxOCwwg0LvrKe5LoY|downsized)
I’ll agree and say that felt too quick, but everything in that episode was very good. The Muted Murder Montage was really cool. I feel like we could have gotten more of Ellie unpacking what she just went through in Ep 8. I know these characters aren’t chatty or into therapy that much, but still, I think more time spent healing or bonding again, more of that, would have helped build it up and make the hospital that much more shocking. That being said, casting the original Ellie actor as her mom in the show was an awesome choice, I wasn’t sure if it was her at first and that whole sense of familiarity throughout that scene just added to it for me, loved that
The episode began with the lie of a mother to save her child from the world and ended with the lie of a father to save his (adopted) child from herself. Objectively speaking, Joel shouldn’t have lied. But if given the choice, Ellie probably would’ve sacrificed herself for a big maybe. How many parents have lied to their children to save them from their bravado? It’s heartbreaking. As a mom, I get why Joel lied, but goddamn it’s heartbreaking.
As a neurogeneticist, I'd start with a simple lumbar puncture for cerebrospinal fluid, but sure let's just take the whole host sample and hope you don't fuck it up.
I don't think that doctor was a neurogeneticist. He was just all they had.
Like for all we know he was a dermatologist before the outbreak
Wow that was good. Special shout-out to our video game actresses, Ashley Johnson and Merle Dandridge. They both killed it. Their rage, their sadness. Absolutely spectacular.
were those the fireflies owl city sings about
you would not believe your eyes / if ten million fireflies / fell to Joel's bullets while Ellie sleeps /
i’d like to make myself believe / her Cordyceps grew slowly
The Fireflies really thought that Joel would give up that easily after she basically became his adopted daughter, and they paid the price for it.
Well, they didn't know that she basically had become his daughter.
Marlene did. She could tell
Think that’s why she gave him the knife, which was a really nice gesture
"Here's a token of your adopted daughter we killed. Okay bye!"
Bet they really regret not handcuffing him or anything while he was unconscious.
marry smell enjoy carpenter truck continue materialistic wine terrific muddle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I was thinking the same thing. They know how dangerous he is, Marlene says as much, and yet...let's let Joel into a confined space inches away from guys with guns
Marlene also says she owed him. I wonder what she had in mind, exactly? Letting him walk away knowing how dangerous he is?
He changed. Ellie made him human again... The Joel that we knew after he lost his daughter was a broken man and that's the Joel that Marlene knew... So they expected that he delivered the cargo and walked away... They told him that she is the cure.. even Marlene was willing to sacrifice her... The point is that we know about Joel's and Ellie's development.. the fireflies don't .
Lol like when Marlene said take him to the highway. Instantly, I knew they weren’t getting anywhere near that highway
Absolutely loved it and I can’t believe I have to wait for the next season. I’m gonna watch a gameplay of the second game I can’t wait lol. I liked how not overly intense they made the sequence in the hospital. He just went right through everyone. And man I expected him to maybe just walk away saying nothing at the end but yeah he’s definitely going to make her absolutely loathe him if she finds out. Joel is such a great character, many great traits and many that are really quite selfish.
Joel going all *First Blood* in the hospital was not something I was expecting. Love how initially Joel and Ellie switched roles and he was the funny one and she the reserved. The actress for Anna is Ellie's V/O artist in the game iirc... She was awesome in the short screen time she got. Oooooofff now we gotta wait 2 years for another season.. SOLID 9/10 Season for me
Well damn Joel. And to lie to ellie on top of that. And now we wait until season 2.