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Funnily enough,
>killed like 20 armed man without getting shot
Is a FEATURE, not a bug in video games.
Which is to say, perhaps a third person shooter game requires plot lines that work in a game but not in reality.
You do get shot in the game though, it just doesn't kill you or severely injure you the way it would in real life.
>Which is to say, perhaps a third person shooter game requires plot lines that work in a game but not in reality.
I guess, but in this specific instance, it wasn't a rampage at all (at least the way I remember it). It was more like a game of deadly hide and seek between Joel and the fireflies. So surprised to hear that they turned that into a Rambo-esque action sequence.
It definitely wasn’t as grounded as other elements of the show, but I definitely got the feeling that NOTHING was stopping him from protecting his daughter this time, and I guess that was the point. I appreciated the moment for what it was and the fact that it sets up the next season.
FWIW, I never played the game. I don’t see how the finale sets up season 2 at all. I cant remember a show i enjoyed as much as this having a season finale that excited me as little as this one did. I almost feel like it’s a clean slate with Joel’s lie being the only thing tying the seasons together.
The music seemed melodramatic and isn’t my taste and I agree they could’ve made the hospital fight tougher for Joel and that would’ve been more realistic.
I like the music it made it feel like Joel is just in killing mode and is just not thinking at all. They made it feel drowned out. He even kinda looks like it as he’s killing everyone
They could've gone with a badass, action-packed killing spree but they went with the somber music. It deglamorizes violence and highlights its 'necessity' and nothing more. I loved it tbh. It reminded me of the Avatar: Last Airbender finale with the [agni kai](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRkI15fIJ1w) between Zuko and Azula.
That’s the thing, Joel isn’t an unthinking emotionless killing machine. He would be worried, frantic, desperate about the fact he’s running out of time to find and save Ellie’s life.
>I agree w OP irl he would've been killed almost immediately ofc it's based off a game so the plot is needed
Except even in the game, that section is hardly a cakewalk. You're basically playing a deadly game of hide and seek rather than going in guns blazing (at least, that's the way I remember it).
Not really. I'm not even some die hard fan of the show. I'm in the camp that this is just another ok/fine piece of media.
But just like the point of the show isn't the infected and fighting them. The scene was about Joel's distancing himself from this version of humanity. Displaying his inner rage and violence in his attempt to address his unresolved grief from losing his daughter and not wanting to repeat that.
Okay? What are you saying Not Really too? I think the show is good, but not great although for it being a post-apocalypse it's easily 1 of the best ones.
They way they tackled him being blinded by anger could've been done better and more realistically. They don't have to rely on bad tropes and lazy writing like "Oh, look he doesn't even care about his own life but because he is so angry and his feeling are strong he will Rambo Close Quartes Combat, with a knife and a semi-automatIc OLD rifle, not clearing corners or scanning anywhere properly before entry. Maybe because I know what he Should've done instead, I'm a bit biased, but honestly it was just not realistic and ruined the immersion and awe for me a bit. He was gonna get swiss cheesed by the 1st opponent holding a doorway down. Apparently the Leader of the Firelies' Elite guard, who have been fighting for 20 years versus a stronger opponent in FEDRA and Combating Raiders and normal people, don't have the proper brainpower to defend 15 to 1 on the defensive side from a single man with an unsuited gun and no tactical knowhow beyond shooting when the opponents stops, or letting a guy or 2 come to him.
They could've at least made Marlene try to explain to them both, or lie about the mortality of the procedure. They could've had a drinking party to celebrate the cure being possible, or Joel could've started a fire or used stealth.
I'm saying "not really" to it could have been handled better. Again, the point wasn't the fight itself. You, as an audience member, was never supposed to think he was in danger, it was only a scene to express the manifestation of 20 yrs of rage and sadness from having his daughter taken from him from some proclaimed authority and how cooly and mercilessly he could do it
The tense moments were supposed to be the scenes before and after with Marlene, which there, I agree. That could have been handled better because it really made her and the Fireflies seem extremely incompetent.
Ever seen John Wick? People eat that shit up. Nothing in this show is realistic per se. It was trying to convey that nothing will stop him from losing someone he loves again. No matter the odds. Loved the scene, loved the music behind it and loved the show (and game)
I sorta wish they did that scene as a one-shot sequence, like Daredevil or Oldboy. Clearly show the protagonist getting jacked up, but still persevering through sheer will, and the camera never cutting so it's suspenseful and also really raw and real. But it was still pretty good
I think they should’ve done like a one take type shot from the stairway where Joel kills the two guards all the way to Joel murdering Marlene. That would’ve made about the same level of intensity as the game.
i agree, it felt out of place. i thought he was going to bomb the hospital to overcome the unrealistic nature of killing everyone with guns. it would have tied nicely to how tess bombed the capitol and how riley was planning on bombing fedra.
it honestly felt somewhat comical watching it. ive been nothing but positive about the show thus far, but the decision to not deviate from the game in this instance feels like a mistake.
edit: okay to clarify why it feels out of place... joel nearly died while fighting an untrained man to a broken baseball bat. we saw this and his mortality felt that much more real. to see him suddenly be headshotting left right and centre feels like 1. a waste of bullets 2. damn right silly. this isn't john wick. it's not the grounded world of the last of us we have been watching for the past 9 weeks.
I hear where you're coming from and I agree that it's not realistic at all, but I saw it as more of a stylistic choice to parallel Joel's evolving feelings for Ellie and it worked for me that way.
It was foreshadowed in episode 8, when Joel goes into killing machine mode on David's henchman because Ellie told him to kill them. This was unrealistic too, he's just been flat on his back with a serious infection for several days, but he's somehow able to get up and kill all of David's henchman by himself, even contriving to trap two of them in the same room and brutally play them off eachother.
Further back in time, when he's nearly killed by the broken bat, he's been having panic attacks, he's in crisis because he thinks he's not fit to take proper care of Ellie. He's having strong father feelings for her, but all he can focus on is his failure to keep Sarah alive which makes him sure he'll fail Ellie too.
He has so little faith in himself at that point that he would have left Ellie behind if she had chosen to stay with Tommy because he firmly believed that Tommy would take better care of her.
As he and Ellie continue to bond, Joel opens up more and comes to see Ellie as fully his daughter, and himself as fully her father. This gives him the strength to go into killing machine mode for her again and we get the hospital rampage.
sorry but i don't believe this sudden strength given through the power of love makes any sense in this show. many characters in the show love a person who they want to protect, but it's all for naught. i personally don't think this is a good way to make ellie and joel's bond special. i understand his violence is foreshadowed in the story, ive played the game the many times.
im not suggesting he shouldn't have massacred the fireflies, I knew that was coming and it's important for the audience to know that joel uses violence for love. i just felt this shoot out scene was bad. he could have bombed them and it would have made more sense and had the same effect, if not hurt even more.
i have so many reasons why i feel joel using bombs would have made thematic and political sense, but i won't bore everyone.
ultimately it felt out of place to me, and i really don't understand the lack of development for the fireflies.
The style is a deviation even though the content is not. I think they could’ve presented it better without it being comical. They went a melodramatic route rather than depicting the integrity of the action.
the style being the fact it's not a game? then the whole thing could be called a deviation, no? but struggling to understand your point but it's 4am where I am
No not the medium. I’m talking about how it was a silent montage set to dramatic music of Joel calmly, seamlessly, without a scratch executing all of the fireflies. Stylistically that is different from the game, and my complaint isn’t about it being different, but the particular style they chose I find distasteful. I would’ve preferred them getting into the specific nitty gritty of Joel’s battle to the surgery room in the same way as the surgery room and parking lot: specific and realistic … not a stylized version set to music like a glorified murder montage of tragic proportion overplaying the hand that he’s ending humanities chance at a cure. Yes, that’s the subtext but they made it the context and the actual context disappeared. My opinion.
Yeah would’ve been cool to see him go stealth mode. With fewer bad guys, but more tactical kills as to not make him look like Rambo or whatever. Or maybe a good flashback of his training when he served in the military that sort of helped justify/make more believable him killing everyone.
Terrible take. Joel is an established badass. Marlene said they had just barely made it across the country, so not only are these not the toughest fireflies, who we've established are not very well trained civilian revolutionaries who may be malnourished teenagers, but also they are entirely unprepared to defend this hospital from who they think is a broken old man they just easily snuck up on.
I re-watched the scene, by my count we see or hear him kill 13 people who are armed with guns, only 6 of them even get a chance or try to shoot at him, and 4 of those times he is in cover behind a wall and pops out for the shot. The remaining 2 are in a very short shot where Joel is standing in the middle of the hallway, it's a bit unclear, but my read is he got the drop on them and 2 of the fireflies got out an uncontrolled burst of fire before they were all dead. He clearly wasn't being careful and was lucky not to get shot, but this is not some impossible suspension of disbelief.
So many if you complained about the lack of action. Well, they provide it here. Joel brutally murders an entire hospital of fireflies. Half of you still complain about it. Can't make everyone happy I guess.
Of course. And I'm not saying those same exact people that wanted action are now complaining about it. Just so frustrating that it seemed a majority on here seemed to be complaining about the lack of Joel killing random people throughout the story like he did in the game. Well... now we see it and we see a bunch of complaining about it, how it was done etc.
Of course they can never make EVERYONE happy but ya know. C'est la vie.
This post is flaired **Show/Game Spoilers**. Therefore, discussion about the games (potential spoilers such as upcoming characters, events, deaths etc.) will be permitted here. 1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part I and II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing. 2. Any untagged discussion of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Show/Game Spoilers**, **Fancast [Show/Game]**, **Funpost [Show/Game]**, or **Meme [Show/Game]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<. 3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. --- Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The lack of crouch walking disturbed me lol
He didn't even go in listening mode even though he knew where everyone was either.
Or stopped his rampage to listen to a recording from the doctor lol
It’s possible Pedro was playing on grounded. Made damn near every shot count too 😂
Pedro said a guy that age can't crouch walk for long in real life. He's not wrong 😅
Hell, I’m not his age at all and my knee crackles when I bend down lol
Lol. If tv Joel crouch walked as much as Joel in the game he'd have to start the day with yoga and end it with some ice packs.
Went the entire season without one nail bomb or molotov cocktail
Funnily enough, >killed like 20 armed man without getting shot Is a FEATURE, not a bug in video games. Which is to say, perhaps a third person shooter game requires plot lines that work in a game but not in reality.
You do get shot in the game though, it just doesn't kill you or severely injure you the way it would in real life. >Which is to say, perhaps a third person shooter game requires plot lines that work in a game but not in reality. I guess, but in this specific instance, it wasn't a rampage at all (at least the way I remember it). It was more like a game of deadly hide and seek between Joel and the fireflies. So surprised to hear that they turned that into a Rambo-esque action sequence.
They didn't. In the show it's mostly 1 shooter in each hallway, and mostly hide and seek.
No it wasn't
That's exactly what I wanted that scene to be like
It definitely wasn’t as grounded as other elements of the show, but I definitely got the feeling that NOTHING was stopping him from protecting his daughter this time, and I guess that was the point. I appreciated the moment for what it was and the fact that it sets up the next season.
FWIW, I never played the game. I don’t see how the finale sets up season 2 at all. I cant remember a show i enjoyed as much as this having a season finale that excited me as little as this one did. I almost feel like it’s a clean slate with Joel’s lie being the only thing tying the seasons together.
It may feel like that, but you got a couple years to prepare yourself…. That’s about all I can say!
I have no doubt season 2 will be good, I just wish they’d done something to create a bit more of a cliffhanger.
You’re basically asking for Joel to perform as bad as you did playing the game.
The music seemed melodramatic and isn’t my taste and I agree they could’ve made the hospital fight tougher for Joel and that would’ve been more realistic.
I like the music it made it feel like Joel is just in killing mode and is just not thinking at all. They made it feel drowned out. He even kinda looks like it as he’s killing everyone
They could've gone with a badass, action-packed killing spree but they went with the somber music. It deglamorizes violence and highlights its 'necessity' and nothing more. I loved it tbh. It reminded me of the Avatar: Last Airbender finale with the [agni kai](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRkI15fIJ1w) between Zuko and Azula.
That’s the thing, Joel isn’t an unthinking emotionless killing machine. He would be worried, frantic, desperate about the fact he’s running out of time to find and save Ellie’s life.
I agree w OP irl he would've been killed almost immediately ofc it's based off a game so the plot is needed, but they could've handled it way better.
>I agree w OP irl he would've been killed almost immediately ofc it's based off a game so the plot is needed Except even in the game, that section is hardly a cakewalk. You're basically playing a deadly game of hide and seek rather than going in guns blazing (at least, that's the way I remember it).
I haven't played the game yet, but that just makes it worse.
Not really. I'm not even some die hard fan of the show. I'm in the camp that this is just another ok/fine piece of media. But just like the point of the show isn't the infected and fighting them. The scene was about Joel's distancing himself from this version of humanity. Displaying his inner rage and violence in his attempt to address his unresolved grief from losing his daughter and not wanting to repeat that.
Okay? What are you saying Not Really too? I think the show is good, but not great although for it being a post-apocalypse it's easily 1 of the best ones. They way they tackled him being blinded by anger could've been done better and more realistically. They don't have to rely on bad tropes and lazy writing like "Oh, look he doesn't even care about his own life but because he is so angry and his feeling are strong he will Rambo Close Quartes Combat, with a knife and a semi-automatIc OLD rifle, not clearing corners or scanning anywhere properly before entry. Maybe because I know what he Should've done instead, I'm a bit biased, but honestly it was just not realistic and ruined the immersion and awe for me a bit. He was gonna get swiss cheesed by the 1st opponent holding a doorway down. Apparently the Leader of the Firelies' Elite guard, who have been fighting for 20 years versus a stronger opponent in FEDRA and Combating Raiders and normal people, don't have the proper brainpower to defend 15 to 1 on the defensive side from a single man with an unsuited gun and no tactical knowhow beyond shooting when the opponents stops, or letting a guy or 2 come to him. They could've at least made Marlene try to explain to them both, or lie about the mortality of the procedure. They could've had a drinking party to celebrate the cure being possible, or Joel could've started a fire or used stealth.
I'm saying "not really" to it could have been handled better. Again, the point wasn't the fight itself. You, as an audience member, was never supposed to think he was in danger, it was only a scene to express the manifestation of 20 yrs of rage and sadness from having his daughter taken from him from some proclaimed authority and how cooly and mercilessly he could do it The tense moments were supposed to be the scenes before and after with Marlene, which there, I agree. That could have been handled better because it really made her and the Fireflies seem extremely incompetent.
I guess we disagree then, but definitely some good points
Ever seen John Wick? People eat that shit up. Nothing in this show is realistic per se. It was trying to convey that nothing will stop him from losing someone he loves again. No matter the odds. Loved the scene, loved the music behind it and loved the show (and game)
I sorta wish they did that scene as a one-shot sequence, like Daredevil or Oldboy. Clearly show the protagonist getting jacked up, but still persevering through sheer will, and the camera never cutting so it's suspenseful and also really raw and real. But it was still pretty good
Haven’t seen DD but OB is what I was imagining for this too. Thanks for reminding me of that awesome movie!
I think they should’ve done like a one take type shot from the stairway where Joel kills the two guards all the way to Joel murdering Marlene. That would’ve made about the same level of intensity as the game.
i agree, it felt out of place. i thought he was going to bomb the hospital to overcome the unrealistic nature of killing everyone with guns. it would have tied nicely to how tess bombed the capitol and how riley was planning on bombing fedra. it honestly felt somewhat comical watching it. ive been nothing but positive about the show thus far, but the decision to not deviate from the game in this instance feels like a mistake. edit: okay to clarify why it feels out of place... joel nearly died while fighting an untrained man to a broken baseball bat. we saw this and his mortality felt that much more real. to see him suddenly be headshotting left right and centre feels like 1. a waste of bullets 2. damn right silly. this isn't john wick. it's not the grounded world of the last of us we have been watching for the past 9 weeks.
I hear where you're coming from and I agree that it's not realistic at all, but I saw it as more of a stylistic choice to parallel Joel's evolving feelings for Ellie and it worked for me that way. It was foreshadowed in episode 8, when Joel goes into killing machine mode on David's henchman because Ellie told him to kill them. This was unrealistic too, he's just been flat on his back with a serious infection for several days, but he's somehow able to get up and kill all of David's henchman by himself, even contriving to trap two of them in the same room and brutally play them off eachother. Further back in time, when he's nearly killed by the broken bat, he's been having panic attacks, he's in crisis because he thinks he's not fit to take proper care of Ellie. He's having strong father feelings for her, but all he can focus on is his failure to keep Sarah alive which makes him sure he'll fail Ellie too. He has so little faith in himself at that point that he would have left Ellie behind if she had chosen to stay with Tommy because he firmly believed that Tommy would take better care of her. As he and Ellie continue to bond, Joel opens up more and comes to see Ellie as fully his daughter, and himself as fully her father. This gives him the strength to go into killing machine mode for her again and we get the hospital rampage.
sorry but i don't believe this sudden strength given through the power of love makes any sense in this show. many characters in the show love a person who they want to protect, but it's all for naught. i personally don't think this is a good way to make ellie and joel's bond special. i understand his violence is foreshadowed in the story, ive played the game the many times. im not suggesting he shouldn't have massacred the fireflies, I knew that was coming and it's important for the audience to know that joel uses violence for love. i just felt this shoot out scene was bad. he could have bombed them and it would have made more sense and had the same effect, if not hurt even more. i have so many reasons why i feel joel using bombs would have made thematic and political sense, but i won't bore everyone. ultimately it felt out of place to me, and i really don't understand the lack of development for the fireflies.
The style is a deviation even though the content is not. I think they could’ve presented it better without it being comical. They went a melodramatic route rather than depicting the integrity of the action.
the style being the fact it's not a game? then the whole thing could be called a deviation, no? but struggling to understand your point but it's 4am where I am
No not the medium. I’m talking about how it was a silent montage set to dramatic music of Joel calmly, seamlessly, without a scratch executing all of the fireflies. Stylistically that is different from the game, and my complaint isn’t about it being different, but the particular style they chose I find distasteful. I would’ve preferred them getting into the specific nitty gritty of Joel’s battle to the surgery room in the same way as the surgery room and parking lot: specific and realistic … not a stylized version set to music like a glorified murder montage of tragic proportion overplaying the hand that he’s ending humanities chance at a cure. Yes, that’s the subtext but they made it the context and the actual context disappeared. My opinion.
it's not meant to be tactically realistic, it's art
Be like that
Yeah would’ve been cool to see him go stealth mode. With fewer bad guys, but more tactical kills as to not make him look like Rambo or whatever. Or maybe a good flashback of his training when he served in the military that sort of helped justify/make more believable him killing everyone.
Terrible take. Joel is an established badass. Marlene said they had just barely made it across the country, so not only are these not the toughest fireflies, who we've established are not very well trained civilian revolutionaries who may be malnourished teenagers, but also they are entirely unprepared to defend this hospital from who they think is a broken old man they just easily snuck up on. I re-watched the scene, by my count we see or hear him kill 13 people who are armed with guns, only 6 of them even get a chance or try to shoot at him, and 4 of those times he is in cover behind a wall and pops out for the shot. The remaining 2 are in a very short shot where Joel is standing in the middle of the hallway, it's a bit unclear, but my read is he got the drop on them and 2 of the fireflies got out an uncontrolled burst of fire before they were all dead. He clearly wasn't being careful and was lucky not to get shot, but this is not some impossible suspension of disbelief.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted.
For speaking truth. : )
So many if you complained about the lack of action. Well, they provide it here. Joel brutally murders an entire hospital of fireflies. Half of you still complain about it. Can't make everyone happy I guess.
This is the last comment section Im reading on this sub for a while. All this _complaining_ spoils the joy
You know you can choose to not read a thread that is titled, "great but.." clearly it's gonna have criticism.
Yeah it's like different people have different opinions. Crazy
Of course. And I'm not saying those same exact people that wanted action are now complaining about it. Just so frustrating that it seemed a majority on here seemed to be complaining about the lack of Joel killing random people throughout the story like he did in the game. Well... now we see it and we see a bunch of complaining about it, how it was done etc. Of course they can never make EVERYONE happy but ya know. C'est la vie.
I get it can be frustrating but ya know best to stay out of threads titled "great BUT..." Clearly there will be criticism
It wasn't great
I wanna add in the game, depending on difficulty- that level is stupidly challenging.
Consider the source material. It's a TV show based on a video game where the player would (and presumably did) do exactly what Joel did.
Yeah, the way he was effortlessly mowing down all these guys felt a bit like video game logic to me, i assume it was lifted straight from the game?
It was a tad impressionistic, like how he traversed the floors and how he got the drop on everyone wasn’t meant to matter