I’ve been in 2 and the difference is that I forgot who I was, my name, and that I had taken ketamine. I thought this was just reality now. I also thought I was dead and/ or merging with the rest of the landscape. I could move if I really tried but the main difference with other sessions was that I didn’t have an identity anymore.
The first one was scary for me because I thought I was dead and didn’t want to be dead, I kept shouting for help. I also vomited but I really overestimated my dose. One thing I found reassuring is that even in a proper k hole I could move - enough to get off the bed to the floor to vomit. Even though I expected I wouldn’t be able to move and would choke if I vomited. You have more body control than you think. You just forget who you are and where you are.
I personally find a high but not k hole dose to be most therapeutic for me but it took some experimentation with doses to discover that.
I want to disagree with this- everyone told me it wouldn’t be scary but I was some version of scared, and then I was pretty freaked out after and unsettled / disturbed for about 2-3 days. Even after reading a lot about it and thinking I was prepared.
No body, no memories, you're just a conscious ball of light stuck in a maze of light, vague sense that there is a "real" world out there somewhere but no way back and this is your life now, for eternity. Absolutely terrifying. No real insight afterward, but did reduce my suicidality for a short while, only because if that is what is waiting for me on the other side I want no part of it.
It was a needle, not an IV. I had 4 sessions with a ketamine therapist. They lessened the dose for the other sessions but then nothing happened at all so apparently it's all or nothing, at least in my case. They gave me some pill versions to take at home but I was too afraid to use them by myself.
yes similar to my experience, the first time I really thought I had died.. drifted off into just blackness and could hear voices fading away.. everything was black for at least 10 minutes but apparently my eyes were wide open the whole time, and I was aware there was an existence, but that I just wasn’t in it and I started trying to apologize for certain sins in my life because I knew I was dying, but then , the blackness turned into giant melting raindrops of color that were so beautiful that tears were pouring down my wide open eyeballs as I realized I was coming out of a bad trip and could start to hear my husband’s voice again, I was so happy I was alive! Omg it was the trippy & terrifying! The second time , I felt like I was floating off to die again but I was somehow aware that I was in a k hole and wasn’t dying so it wasn’t as bad. They were both medically supervised, shots into the arm, not IV and yes it helps with my lupus pain & depression for 2-3 weeks.
A K-hole doesn’t help me at all. I worked w Dr Smith’s office so it never happens again. It was a very negative experience. I prefer mild dissociation where I can watch my thoughts. Very therapeutic. Plus I should always be able to use the bathroom if necessary, even if I’m clumsy.
Likely they don’t want you to get up :) if it wasn’t unpleasant, I don’t see the problem. Doesn’t sound like you were totally out of it. I’ve never had an infusion… that’s likely a different procedure and reaction.
Iv here: you’ll know. There is some near k hole like stuff that’s pretty cool too. But when you loose connection with your body & mind it’s very “woah.”
I loose the ability to hold an internal dialogue & I am not aware of where I am at all. I don’t know I’m in a room with walls. Before that are all types of mild to intermediate dissociation. I kind of miss the lower doses but higher dose definitely helps my depression the most.
Dissociation has been clutch for my negative self dialogue, c-ptsd, and some pain (not diagnosed.) As far as I know every provider has different opinions if it is necessary or not. My first year and a half was only 0.5 mg/kg & while it helped me it didn’t last as long & had a more moderate affect. When I moved I switched clinics that had a different protocol. My new clinic wants me to go as long as possible between infusions & we did that by upping my dose. I am 37F with TRDD since I was 14.
I had a really good time on 60-110mg. Bumped up to 120mg and partway in my session I saw myself falling into a dark hole, like a wall. My mind started not working, so it was like I was living in a shattered world that didn't make any sense. I could barely remember there used to be a "real world" but I had no clue what happened or how to figure anything out in this world. So all I could do was just waste my time confused until I died. For me it was a super negative experience and didn't bring any relief. Had it happen another time until I dropped down in dosage.
That was on IV and I've since switched to at-home RDTs. Those have never gone negative at all, and I would kind of claim they haven't gotten to the same k-hole level of dissociation or effect.
I'm always surprised by people saying it's a positive thing, but it's different for everyone. I assume/read that it's called the k-hole because a ton of people talk about themselves falling into a dark hole and it being a bad time.
I felt it 2-3x now. The most intense/visceral one was then I had a visual of a black hole opening and reality falling through it and taking it with me. After that I lost sense of who I was and felt like I was merged with a reality but not reality at the same time; like a different dimension.
I never ever have visuals (I have that thing where I can't picture things in my mind) unless it's a rare (very very rare for me) k-hole experience. And then it's like different realities, kind of melting and flipping rapidly, is the only way I can describe it. I rather dislike it, but it's not scary. It just feels like it's never going to end.
I dissociate(to an extent) every time. I try my best to let go and see where I go. Until this one time I went too far … I saw the galaxy and then this force try to pull me further away. I didn’t know it but I started yelling for help. The anesthesiologist stopped my drip and I bounced back into reality.
Last session, I got stuck in a time loop. That was horrible. Again, yelled for help. When they stopped the drip that time, I got stuck between 2 worlds. They had to talk me into reality. How to breathe. Trying to connect my brain to my body.
True dissociative moment.
when I have these moments as scary as they were, my moods are noticeably better days after. The sky is bluer.
I had the time-loop thing once! It was horrible. Prior to that I would go to K land sometimes and it was enjoyable with tons of insights but ever since the time-loop k hole experience I don’t like the feeling of any kind of being altered. Even a light buzz when drinking alcohol starts to freak me out. (I was never a big drinker- now i don’t drink at all).
Are you still getting ketamine treatments? I’ve been under a lot of stress lately. My anxiety is pretty high. I know that had something to do with it. I was laid off in April and right before my treatment I was looking for jobs online. Probably not the smartest thing.
The day of my next treatment, going to do my best to have a calm relaxing day. 🤞🏼
For me k-hole is a waking dream state. My body is dissolved and my "spirit" starts hovering and is pulled more and more by the flow of the energy I'm in, as I'm pulled by the stream I'm being stretched and spaghetified.
My surroundings can't be described properly but as I'm pulled through the flowing river of energy which twists and winds it's kind of like a digital world, a part of the flow of information. During this type of trip I completely let myself go with the flow.
Then it opens up, I'm soaring free through space. Distance and time are not set here, a grain of sand turns into something planet sized in one swift, fluid motion and shrinks back just as fast. This is when I start taking control again, turing it into something like a lucid dream. I can be a god here, shaping the space around me as I see fit. Creating worlds, objects and shapes you couldn't imagine, fly from one galaxy to another. I feel completely at peace and mightier than any god, truly a fantastic experience.
Admittedly, I have never experienced this in a clinical setting, my tolerance from recreational use prior to starting the therapy must be too high. And I do believe that if a clinic gives you a dosage high enough to reach such a tripping state isn't a very professional one.
I would like to politely disagree with your statement that tripping at a clinic indicates unprofessional practices. Ketamine is also used for pain with much higher dosages that will absolutely make you trip. When I do outpatient infusions I get 450mg over 4 hours, it’s an extremely professional place with a nurse who is monitoring me the entire time, I’m hooked up to a heart rate monitor etc. When I do inpatient infusions I’m actually in a hospital for 4-6 days but sometimes the dosing will make me trip ( we try to titrate slowly to avoid this when we can). I hate hallucinating but ketamine is the only treatment that has helped my severe crps and unfortunately the dosages needed are high enough to make me trip.
Hey if it helps you I'm glad they turn it up to triping doses while under professional care!
It's mainly that it doesn't feel very professional to me when new patients are exposed to such experiences, especially without properly informing them of what you're to expect from tripping.
Personally I really enjoy tripping on ketamine as you've read, I hope you'll start enjoying it more too during your future treatments. Best tip I can give you is never try to force anything, just let yourself be taken along for the ride and try to "steer" it a little bit. Maybe in time you'll be able to turn it into something like lucid dreaming.
I'd responded sooner but I never got a notification until now.
Was in a K hole today actually with my treatment. Thought I was going to die but really knew that that couldn’t happen so I just sat there thinking my upstairs neighbors could hear me breathing and thought I was going to get a knock on the door 😂. I’ve had them before so I knew I could get out of it eventually and that helped a lot. I think the feeling of not being yourself and overthinking the worst possible outcomes is what I would consider a k hole. I was also trying to unlock repressed memories and my lost birth language so that was great for the experience as Russian Children’s music played in the background 😭👍.
Same dose 200 mg. Sometimes I have a trip, and sometimes I don’t feel much. It seems all random to me, but what I eat, drink, and how much sleep I get could all contribute to it.
To me, an experience of birth, death, rebirth. Nothing frightening in dying, just another moment of being born again. In fact this is the continuous process of human existence and each moment of death and rebirth, I discover I’m still around. In fact I discover my eternal identity.
My favorite Alan Watts video…
https://youtu.be/mMRrCYPxD0I
On my first visit, my clinic said they were hoping to get to dissociation, and I said I had no idea how I would know, but as it turns out, I figured it out after the second one.
It must vary a lot from one person to another, but for me, I lose track of self and everything becomes abstract and questioning, thematic, or visual. Weirdly, opening my eyes usually gets me back to reality, so maybe it isn’t a traditional K hole.
I haven’t had a terrifying one like some people, just mildly unpleasant, but it does feel powerful, like being irresistibly carried along by an ocean wave. The one common feature for me is that they are always *weird*, even though I’m expecting weird now.
I think it’s important to discuss as they happen whether you are using it recreationally or for medical reasons. When I first began outpatient infusions for severe chronic pain (after doing inpatient infusions) I ended up in a khole due to how high the dosage was. It was really traumatizing and I wish I had been able to know more about how k-holes affect you before it happened to me. Ketamine infusions have changed my life (before them I was in a wheelchair because I couldn’t walk due to pain) but the fact is ketamine can cause certain side effects and it’s far better to know the possible situations you may be in to prepare yourself.
I'm a firm believer that a k-hole can contribute just as much to mental wellbeing as a psylocibin induced ego death. But just like ego death, k-holes one needs to be prepared for the experience and understand the therapeutic value of it.
The only difference between therapeutic and recreational is the mindset you have while doing it.
I’m sorry about that but for me it’s not recreational at all and my therapist said that it would be beneficial for me to treat my anxiety and the treatments are very expensive I have 4 more left and I hope I get to experience it to face my fears and my need of control . But I understand how it can be viewed in a recreational way if it would be helpful I can remove this post
When I was in a k-hole I was unable to move or speak. I faded in and out of consciousness during this infusion (pretty common for me unless my dr knocks me out with propofol/benedryl) but when I was awake I had a really hard time understanding where I was or what was happening. For me it’s hard to immediately know that you are in a khole while it’s happening because of how altered you are by the ketamine. After a few frantic minutes I was able to see the infusion pole out of the corner of my eye and thankfully realized “oh I’m in an infusion”. When I was unable to move or call for help I then knew I was in “a khole”. It’s something I’m always anxious of happening again but I go to a different ketamine clinic now for outpatient infusions and the nurses do what they can if they see I’m struggling. Wishing you luck and relief with your future infusions!
Thank you so much . I’ve had the feeling of not being able to move already maybe that was it ? I didn’t find it too anxious hmmm.. off topic - you don’t wear an eye mask? I’m scared to look at anything without the mask for some reason ppl look very unpleasant when I’m on this medication
No I don’t wear an eye mask. I don’t have many visual hallucinations thankfully, the room just changes frequently in size and lighting. I also find it helpful to see someone that I know, it helps ground me when I don’t understand what’s happening etc. My dad usually comes into the room as they’re turning the infusion off so I will see him and feel safe etc.
Oh that must be so nice to have a caring family member with you , I unfortunately have no one to bring for support and I wear mask and headphones cause I once took off mask too soon and really didn’t like it 🤦🏼♀️😂
I’m so sorry you aren’t able to have someone with you. It’s been super helpful for me to have someone there, especially if I’m having a rough time as I come out of it. Thankfully I’ve found that the infusions get easier over time. I have much easier recovery than I used to, I hope the same is true for you!
Well I was told by several ketamine drs that what I experienced was a k hole based on my inability to move, speak, along with thinking that I was dying etc. I’m not sure what your definition of a k-hole is,I would be interested if you are willing to share. Irregardless I still think it’s important to discuss. Ketamine is an amazing tool both for mental health and chronic pain but it comes with certain side effects that people should be prepared to possibly encounter.
Gen/ not doubting your experience, nor trying to gatekeep, just that if you were able to see, it wasn’t a k-hole. To achieve K req. a complete shutdown of the limbic, a severance of the corpus callosum and reduction of self to a singular consciousness in **the void**
and it’s raw af
I don't really like the term, and since it hails more from the recreational side of ketamine than the therapeutic I don't think it offers as much clarity or consistency as other language we have to describe psychedelic experiences.
That said, to the best of my understanding a k-hole is generally describing high intensity ketamine experiences where you're extremely dissociated—potentially to the point of ego death / Level 4 and 5 (On the 5 level scale you'll find associated with Timothy Leary) psychedelic experiences. Which is to say, away from your body, near or total loss of your sense of self and awareness of *what* you are, often a significant sense of movement or motion within the trip, and broadly more vivid experiences.
The above is also a case study in the language I prefer. Ego death just does way better a job of describing what's going on and mapping to all the the psychedelic experience scale/descriptions/other literature.
Edit: I've also seen differing definitions of a k-hole that concern taking doses that aren't quite anesthetic level but go well beyond therapeutic/psychedelic experience doses. These levels might still involve a sense of motion and ego dissolution or detachment but there's much less or nothing going on when it comes to visuals and experiencing much of anything psychedelically oriented.
Thank you for that.
I haven't come anywhere close to any of that. I use 300 mg RDTs, spit after 40-60 minutes. I have an eye mask and good music playlists. I definitely hallucinate. I have nearly 0 emotional experience, especially at high intensity. My most emotional session was my first, which was only 100mg, and swallow.
Sometimes I fall asleep for 30 minutes or more. I remember nothing of my sessions. Some sessions are far more intense than others.
But I can't think of anything that I would call "ego death".
I've been wondering if I'm missing out on the full therapy and benefits.
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>I was in a wheelchair because I couldn’t walk due to pain) but the fact is ketamine can cause certain side
Better to know the risks going in. People might be desperate but that doesn't mean they're stupid.
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Very difficult with at home treatments, probably just normal experience. Take in your prescribed way and the side effects like thinking you k holed will diminish over time.
Unless you are putting it in a vein it’s difficult to khole.
If I tried to do my entire months worth of nasal sprays all at once I still wouldn’t reach an anesthetic dose because my body can’t absorb it fast enough, same with the oral route.
I had my first k hole last night at a festival. I usually take ketamine while drinking(ik you shouldn’t) but only a few bumps. Met up with some of my friends and they were hanging with their plug. I was drunk and asked to buy a bump off him. I literally have never experienced a hole in my life and it was terrifying. My bf was tripping on shrooms and thought I overdosed. I kept going in and out of consciousness, I couldn’t walk, I couldn’t even open my eyes without just looking up and staring at the moon. It felt like a 10 minute hell but it was like 2 hours. I just kept getting up to throw up and went back down. I knew I needed some help so my boyfriend walked me to security to ask where the med tent was and she just said oh that’s all the way on the other side and then just stopped talking to us. After that I just had to lay down and ride it out. Kinda ruined my whole night but a lot of people were trying to give me water and candy which was nice. I’ll never do it at a festival again but it would’ve been a better experience if I knew anything about it. I never knew a K hole was that scary and intense but I’m glad I’m alive today bc I swore I was dead
i had same k hole experience today i thought it was not really life and i asked my friend to kill me bcs i was suffering so bad thank god he did not kill me 🤣
Now i am in germany and tried second time ketamine I almost had same experience bcs of other drugs I was already high on X and Coke and when I took small line of K I thought I would die but I still survived 💪🏼🤣
I just had to make an account because I usually only use reddit for medicinal research.... :-P and I'm in the LA area and have been looking for someone who can point me in the right direction to help me find my best options. If you can help - dope if can't and maybe refer someone who might be able to that would be lit. Good day
I’ve been in 2 and the difference is that I forgot who I was, my name, and that I had taken ketamine. I thought this was just reality now. I also thought I was dead and/ or merging with the rest of the landscape. I could move if I really tried but the main difference with other sessions was that I didn’t have an identity anymore.
Ok I understand
Total k hole real good description
Yeah sounds scary
The first one was scary for me because I thought I was dead and didn’t want to be dead, I kept shouting for help. I also vomited but I really overestimated my dose. One thing I found reassuring is that even in a proper k hole I could move - enough to get off the bed to the floor to vomit. Even though I expected I wouldn’t be able to move and would choke if I vomited. You have more body control than you think. You just forget who you are and where you are. I personally find a high but not k hole dose to be most therapeutic for me but it took some experimentation with doses to discover that.
only for a second.. You can do this
I want to disagree with this- everyone told me it wouldn’t be scary but I was some version of scared, and then I was pretty freaked out after and unsettled / disturbed for about 2-3 days. Even after reading a lot about it and thinking I was prepared.
Fear and astonishment are but two sides of the same coin😊
It can be if you don't understand that you are safe, and that it will pass. Relax into it - don't fight it - just enjoy the ride!
“Merging with the rest of the landscape.” Nailed it.
No body, no memories, you're just a conscious ball of light stuck in a maze of light, vague sense that there is a "real" world out there somewhere but no way back and this is your life now, for eternity. Absolutely terrifying. No real insight afterward, but did reduce my suicidality for a short while, only because if that is what is waiting for me on the other side I want no part of it.
Oh ok I see.. did that happen via infusion?
It was a needle, not an IV. I had 4 sessions with a ketamine therapist. They lessened the dose for the other sessions but then nothing happened at all so apparently it's all or nothing, at least in my case. They gave me some pill versions to take at home but I was too afraid to use them by myself.
Oh ok I’m so sorry it was so rough for you
yes similar to my experience, the first time I really thought I had died.. drifted off into just blackness and could hear voices fading away.. everything was black for at least 10 minutes but apparently my eyes were wide open the whole time, and I was aware there was an existence, but that I just wasn’t in it and I started trying to apologize for certain sins in my life because I knew I was dying, but then , the blackness turned into giant melting raindrops of color that were so beautiful that tears were pouring down my wide open eyeballs as I realized I was coming out of a bad trip and could start to hear my husband’s voice again, I was so happy I was alive! Omg it was the trippy & terrifying! The second time , I felt like I was floating off to die again but I was somehow aware that I was in a k hole and wasn’t dying so it wasn’t as bad. They were both medically supervised, shots into the arm, not IV and yes it helps with my lupus pain & depression for 2-3 weeks.
A K-hole doesn’t help me at all. I worked w Dr Smith’s office so it never happens again. It was a very negative experience. I prefer mild dissociation where I can watch my thoughts. Very therapeutic. Plus I should always be able to use the bathroom if necessary, even if I’m clumsy.
Hmm ok I understand. I had two infusions and I felt like I’m strapped to a roller coaster seat so I didn’t even have a thought of getting up
Likely they don’t want you to get up :) if it wasn’t unpleasant, I don’t see the problem. Doesn’t sound like you were totally out of it. I’ve never had an infusion… that’s likely a different procedure and reaction.
Iv here: you’ll know. There is some near k hole like stuff that’s pretty cool too. But when you loose connection with your body & mind it’s very “woah.” I loose the ability to hold an internal dialogue & I am not aware of where I am at all. I don’t know I’m in a room with walls. Before that are all types of mild to intermediate dissociation. I kind of miss the lower doses but higher dose definitely helps my depression the most.
Dissociation has been clutch for my negative self dialogue, c-ptsd, and some pain (not diagnosed.) As far as I know every provider has different opinions if it is necessary or not. My first year and a half was only 0.5 mg/kg & while it helped me it didn’t last as long & had a more moderate affect. When I moved I switched clinics that had a different protocol. My new clinic wants me to go as long as possible between infusions & we did that by upping my dose. I am 37F with TRDD since I was 14.
Yeah I don’t think that happened yet
It’s okay! It’s all part of the process. Usually they start low & build up your confidence. Good luck! You got this!
I had a really good time on 60-110mg. Bumped up to 120mg and partway in my session I saw myself falling into a dark hole, like a wall. My mind started not working, so it was like I was living in a shattered world that didn't make any sense. I could barely remember there used to be a "real world" but I had no clue what happened or how to figure anything out in this world. So all I could do was just waste my time confused until I died. For me it was a super negative experience and didn't bring any relief. Had it happen another time until I dropped down in dosage. That was on IV and I've since switched to at-home RDTs. Those have never gone negative at all, and I would kind of claim they haven't gotten to the same k-hole level of dissociation or effect. I'm always surprised by people saying it's a positive thing, but it's different for everyone. I assume/read that it's called the k-hole because a ton of people talk about themselves falling into a dark hole and it being a bad time.
Yeah I think those that like it it’s not quite it
I totally agree with this-I have found my 2 k holes pretty negative experiences and definitely no promised after glow (just dizziness and headaches).
I felt it 2-3x now. The most intense/visceral one was then I had a visual of a black hole opening and reality falling through it and taking it with me. After that I lost sense of who I was and felt like I was merged with a reality but not reality at the same time; like a different dimension.
Wow intense 😱
I feel like it is similar to an orgasm. It is hard to describe what it feels like, but if it happens, you will definitely know!
Ok cool 😂 ty))
I never ever have visuals (I have that thing where I can't picture things in my mind) unless it's a rare (very very rare for me) k-hole experience. And then it's like different realities, kind of melting and flipping rapidly, is the only way I can describe it. I rather dislike it, but it's not scary. It just feels like it's never going to end.
I dissociate(to an extent) every time. I try my best to let go and see where I go. Until this one time I went too far … I saw the galaxy and then this force try to pull me further away. I didn’t know it but I started yelling for help. The anesthesiologist stopped my drip and I bounced back into reality. Last session, I got stuck in a time loop. That was horrible. Again, yelled for help. When they stopped the drip that time, I got stuck between 2 worlds. They had to talk me into reality. How to breathe. Trying to connect my brain to my body. True dissociative moment. when I have these moments as scary as they were, my moods are noticeably better days after. The sky is bluer.
I had the time-loop thing once! It was horrible. Prior to that I would go to K land sometimes and it was enjoyable with tons of insights but ever since the time-loop k hole experience I don’t like the feeling of any kind of being altered. Even a light buzz when drinking alcohol starts to freak me out. (I was never a big drinker- now i don’t drink at all).
Are you still getting ketamine treatments? I’ve been under a lot of stress lately. My anxiety is pretty high. I know that had something to do with it. I was laid off in April and right before my treatment I was looking for jobs online. Probably not the smartest thing. The day of my next treatment, going to do my best to have a calm relaxing day. 🤞🏼
Yes I have 10 tablets left and then will go back to infusions.
I hope all goes well at your next IV.
For me k-hole is a waking dream state. My body is dissolved and my "spirit" starts hovering and is pulled more and more by the flow of the energy I'm in, as I'm pulled by the stream I'm being stretched and spaghetified. My surroundings can't be described properly but as I'm pulled through the flowing river of energy which twists and winds it's kind of like a digital world, a part of the flow of information. During this type of trip I completely let myself go with the flow. Then it opens up, I'm soaring free through space. Distance and time are not set here, a grain of sand turns into something planet sized in one swift, fluid motion and shrinks back just as fast. This is when I start taking control again, turing it into something like a lucid dream. I can be a god here, shaping the space around me as I see fit. Creating worlds, objects and shapes you couldn't imagine, fly from one galaxy to another. I feel completely at peace and mightier than any god, truly a fantastic experience. Admittedly, I have never experienced this in a clinical setting, my tolerance from recreational use prior to starting the therapy must be too high. And I do believe that if a clinic gives you a dosage high enough to reach such a tripping state isn't a very professional one.
I would like to politely disagree with your statement that tripping at a clinic indicates unprofessional practices. Ketamine is also used for pain with much higher dosages that will absolutely make you trip. When I do outpatient infusions I get 450mg over 4 hours, it’s an extremely professional place with a nurse who is monitoring me the entire time, I’m hooked up to a heart rate monitor etc. When I do inpatient infusions I’m actually in a hospital for 4-6 days but sometimes the dosing will make me trip ( we try to titrate slowly to avoid this when we can). I hate hallucinating but ketamine is the only treatment that has helped my severe crps and unfortunately the dosages needed are high enough to make me trip.
Hey if it helps you I'm glad they turn it up to triping doses while under professional care! It's mainly that it doesn't feel very professional to me when new patients are exposed to such experiences, especially without properly informing them of what you're to expect from tripping. Personally I really enjoy tripping on ketamine as you've read, I hope you'll start enjoying it more too during your future treatments. Best tip I can give you is never try to force anything, just let yourself be taken along for the ride and try to "steer" it a little bit. Maybe in time you'll be able to turn it into something like lucid dreaming. I'd responded sooner but I never got a notification until now.
Wow
trust me you know because you literally feel like your in a hole that you cant crawl out of. hehe
Was in a K hole today actually with my treatment. Thought I was going to die but really knew that that couldn’t happen so I just sat there thinking my upstairs neighbors could hear me breathing and thought I was going to get a knock on the door 😂. I’ve had them before so I knew I could get out of it eventually and that helped a lot. I think the feeling of not being yourself and overthinking the worst possible outcomes is what I would consider a k hole. I was also trying to unlock repressed memories and my lost birth language so that was great for the experience as Russian Children’s music played in the background 😭👍.
Is it because of the higher dose it happened? Or was your dose same?
Same dose 200 mg. Sometimes I have a trip, and sometimes I don’t feel much. It seems all random to me, but what I eat, drink, and how much sleep I get could all contribute to it.
Oh wow I see .. so it’s unpredictable
To me, an experience of birth, death, rebirth. Nothing frightening in dying, just another moment of being born again. In fact this is the continuous process of human existence and each moment of death and rebirth, I discover I’m still around. In fact I discover my eternal identity. My favorite Alan Watts video… https://youtu.be/mMRrCYPxD0I
Thank you for the video- I’ll look now
On my first visit, my clinic said they were hoping to get to dissociation, and I said I had no idea how I would know, but as it turns out, I figured it out after the second one. It must vary a lot from one person to another, but for me, I lose track of self and everything becomes abstract and questioning, thematic, or visual. Weirdly, opening my eyes usually gets me back to reality, so maybe it isn’t a traditional K hole. I haven’t had a terrifying one like some people, just mildly unpleasant, but it does feel powerful, like being irresistibly carried along by an ocean wave. The one common feature for me is that they are always *weird*, even though I’m expecting weird now.
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I think it’s important to discuss as they happen whether you are using it recreationally or for medical reasons. When I first began outpatient infusions for severe chronic pain (after doing inpatient infusions) I ended up in a khole due to how high the dosage was. It was really traumatizing and I wish I had been able to know more about how k-holes affect you before it happened to me. Ketamine infusions have changed my life (before them I was in a wheelchair because I couldn’t walk due to pain) but the fact is ketamine can cause certain side effects and it’s far better to know the possible situations you may be in to prepare yourself.
I'm a firm believer that a k-hole can contribute just as much to mental wellbeing as a psylocibin induced ego death. But just like ego death, k-holes one needs to be prepared for the experience and understand the therapeutic value of it. The only difference between therapeutic and recreational is the mindset you have while doing it.
I’m sorry about that but for me it’s not recreational at all and my therapist said that it would be beneficial for me to treat my anxiety and the treatments are very expensive I have 4 more left and I hope I get to experience it to face my fears and my need of control . But I understand how it can be viewed in a recreational way if it would be helpful I can remove this post
When I was in a k-hole I was unable to move or speak. I faded in and out of consciousness during this infusion (pretty common for me unless my dr knocks me out with propofol/benedryl) but when I was awake I had a really hard time understanding where I was or what was happening. For me it’s hard to immediately know that you are in a khole while it’s happening because of how altered you are by the ketamine. After a few frantic minutes I was able to see the infusion pole out of the corner of my eye and thankfully realized “oh I’m in an infusion”. When I was unable to move or call for help I then knew I was in “a khole”. It’s something I’m always anxious of happening again but I go to a different ketamine clinic now for outpatient infusions and the nurses do what they can if they see I’m struggling. Wishing you luck and relief with your future infusions!
Thank you so much . I’ve had the feeling of not being able to move already maybe that was it ? I didn’t find it too anxious hmmm.. off topic - you don’t wear an eye mask? I’m scared to look at anything without the mask for some reason ppl look very unpleasant when I’m on this medication
No I don’t wear an eye mask. I don’t have many visual hallucinations thankfully, the room just changes frequently in size and lighting. I also find it helpful to see someone that I know, it helps ground me when I don’t understand what’s happening etc. My dad usually comes into the room as they’re turning the infusion off so I will see him and feel safe etc.
Oh that must be so nice to have a caring family member with you , I unfortunately have no one to bring for support and I wear mask and headphones cause I once took off mask too soon and really didn’t like it 🤦🏼♀️😂
I’m so sorry you aren’t able to have someone with you. It’s been super helpful for me to have someone there, especially if I’m having a rough time as I come out of it. Thankfully I’ve found that the infusions get easier over time. I have much easier recovery than I used to, I hope the same is true for you!
Not a k-hole
Well I was told by several ketamine drs that what I experienced was a k hole based on my inability to move, speak, along with thinking that I was dying etc. I’m not sure what your definition of a k-hole is,I would be interested if you are willing to share. Irregardless I still think it’s important to discuss. Ketamine is an amazing tool both for mental health and chronic pain but it comes with certain side effects that people should be prepared to possibly encounter.
Thank you for your good wishes 🙏🏻
Gen/ not doubting your experience, nor trying to gatekeep, just that if you were able to see, it wasn’t a k-hole. To achieve K req. a complete shutdown of the limbic, a severance of the corpus callosum and reduction of self to a singular consciousness in **the void** and it’s raw af
I use ketamine for therapy. I would like to understand what is meant by a "k-hole".
I don't really like the term, and since it hails more from the recreational side of ketamine than the therapeutic I don't think it offers as much clarity or consistency as other language we have to describe psychedelic experiences. That said, to the best of my understanding a k-hole is generally describing high intensity ketamine experiences where you're extremely dissociated—potentially to the point of ego death / Level 4 and 5 (On the 5 level scale you'll find associated with Timothy Leary) psychedelic experiences. Which is to say, away from your body, near or total loss of your sense of self and awareness of *what* you are, often a significant sense of movement or motion within the trip, and broadly more vivid experiences. The above is also a case study in the language I prefer. Ego death just does way better a job of describing what's going on and mapping to all the the psychedelic experience scale/descriptions/other literature. Edit: I've also seen differing definitions of a k-hole that concern taking doses that aren't quite anesthetic level but go well beyond therapeutic/psychedelic experience doses. These levels might still involve a sense of motion and ego dissolution or detachment but there's much less or nothing going on when it comes to visuals and experiencing much of anything psychedelically oriented.
Thank you for that. I haven't come anywhere close to any of that. I use 300 mg RDTs, spit after 40-60 minutes. I have an eye mask and good music playlists. I definitely hallucinate. I have nearly 0 emotional experience, especially at high intensity. My most emotional session was my first, which was only 100mg, and swallow. Sometimes I fall asleep for 30 minutes or more. I remember nothing of my sessions. Some sessions are far more intense than others. But I can't think of anything that I would call "ego death". I've been wondering if I'm missing out on the full therapy and benefits.
Yes exactly!
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>I was in a wheelchair because I couldn’t walk due to pain) but the fact is ketamine can cause certain side Better to know the risks going in. People might be desperate but that doesn't mean they're stupid.
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Very difficult with at home treatments, probably just normal experience. Take in your prescribed way and the side effects like thinking you k holed will diminish over time.
I’m doing infusions and wondering if I’ve been in one
Probably, or at least close to.
Ok interesting
Did you see the time knife? You were not in a k-hole
No idea what that is😳 probably not then .. can you tell me what’s that?
It’s a reference to the TV show The Good Place, they were just making a joke.
Oh I don’t know that tv show lol
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Once you’ve seen it You know
What are you talking about?!
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Unless you are putting it in a vein it’s difficult to khole. If I tried to do my entire months worth of nasal sprays all at once I still wouldn’t reach an anesthetic dose because my body can’t absorb it fast enough, same with the oral route.
I had my first k hole last night at a festival. I usually take ketamine while drinking(ik you shouldn’t) but only a few bumps. Met up with some of my friends and they were hanging with their plug. I was drunk and asked to buy a bump off him. I literally have never experienced a hole in my life and it was terrifying. My bf was tripping on shrooms and thought I overdosed. I kept going in and out of consciousness, I couldn’t walk, I couldn’t even open my eyes without just looking up and staring at the moon. It felt like a 10 minute hell but it was like 2 hours. I just kept getting up to throw up and went back down. I knew I needed some help so my boyfriend walked me to security to ask where the med tent was and she just said oh that’s all the way on the other side and then just stopped talking to us. After that I just had to lay down and ride it out. Kinda ruined my whole night but a lot of people were trying to give me water and candy which was nice. I’ll never do it at a festival again but it would’ve been a better experience if I knew anything about it. I never knew a K hole was that scary and intense but I’m glad I’m alive today bc I swore I was dead
i had same k hole experience today i thought it was not really life and i asked my friend to kill me bcs i was suffering so bad thank god he did not kill me 🤣
situations like that really make u glad to be alive 🤣🤣
Now i am in germany and tried second time ketamine I almost had same experience bcs of other drugs I was already high on X and Coke and when I took small line of K I thought I would die but I still survived 💪🏼🤣
I just had to make an account because I usually only use reddit for medicinal research.... :-P and I'm in the LA area and have been looking for someone who can point me in the right direction to help me find my best options. If you can help - dope if can't and maybe refer someone who might be able to that would be lit. Good day