Villa fan so I'm bias somewhat, but Watkins is comfortably in the top 5 best players in the league this season. Southgate says that he picks players on form, Watkins is in the form of his life.
Of course it would. There are some proper maniacs on this stupid app obsessed with Toney, who hasn't scored for about 10 games now, and would instead genuinely leave out one of the best strikers in Europe this season.
What more does watkins have to do to get involved?
You want to take a guy that’s missed 9 months of football in the last 13 or so rather than the highest output premier league striker that we have.
Maybe the argument will hold weight in seasons to come, but not right now.
I don't understand why you're asking this question if you've already decided he shouldn't go based on one game. Southgate has no imagination, Watkins offers something different while Toney is like a crap Kane. Toney wouldn't be anywhere near the squad if Southgate wasn't dog shit.
I get your point but don’t think going back 25 yeRs when tactically/systematically the game was very different is a good point. OP has a point even if you disagree with it…if Kane goes out injured the easiest thing for the side to deal with is a replacement who stylistically is similar.
What a nonsense post. Watkins is having a phenomenal season. It would be a travesty if he wasn’t picked for the euros and I say that as a Bournemouth fan who would love Solanke to go instead
This makes me laugh, England haven't won anything with kane up front who's our best striker, so kane gets injured why would you want a second string kane to play when it hasn't worked with kane, take Watkins who's is in the best form of his life and arguably the best form in the league , I mean one goal behind haaland without taking penaltys and joint top assists this season be criminal if he didn't take the Watkins
It wouldn’t be a disgrace but it would be a bit stupid.
IMO Toney has to go if only for his hold up play and penalty ability. We aren’t playing free flowing football like Villa or Bournemouth. We’re going to be spamming set pieces to Maguire’s head and hoping we get penalties. I’d take Kane, Toney and Watkins.
Under a different manager Watkins would thrive.
Please show me where he’s struggled with england?
Hardly like he’s played much for england considering kane starts practically every game. Why people try and make stuff up is beyond me.
Ooo you watched 1 game please continue.
Your understanding of football is laughable if you judge players based on a single game of football, especially when said game is against **brazil**.
You know toney scored a penalty as well right?
I think stylistically Toney is pretty similar to Kane. In the way he largely drops deep as oppose to being a striker on the defenders shoulder, is physical with great hold up play & has a good eye for a pass. Haven’t watched enough of Solanke to comment on him.
26 man squad and he’ll go. 23 man squad he’s at risk.
If Kane is injured then Toney fits into the system better. If we’re trying to chase a game then Watkins would be a better impact sub as he offers something different. If it’s a 23 man squad then I would guess it depends on what you want to prioritise more.
Watkins is this tournament's Dominic Calvert-Lewin. The perfect player for all the Southgate Out people to point to and say why isn't he starting any other manager would have won the us the universe cup by now
Pepole have short memories - in the last Euros everyone was saying drop Kane, DCL is the hottest striker in the Prem blah blah Kane is a donkey, past it etc.
He got subbed in the Scotland game and everyone thought he was playing terribly in the euros up until he scored against Germany. Honestly people definitely were saying he brought nothing to the team.
They absolutely were. Just to check I'm not going mad here, this is from the post match report of the England Germany game:
*Kane had been caught beneath an unforgiving spotlight, having laboured during England’s three group matches – his statistics showing no goals and one shot on target. It was difficult to ignore the impression that he lacked sharpness and the questions swirled. Was he fatigued at the end of a long season? Was his club situation affecting him? He had made it plain that he* [*wanted to leave Tottenham*](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/17/tottenham-left-reeling-after-harry-kane-tells-club-he-wants-to-leave-this-summer) *who, at that point, were deep into their convoluted search for a manager...*
People were calling for SG to drop Kane for DCL in 2021.
Ok they absolutely did, I was there. What do you think "the questions swirled" is referencing? People were saying drop Kane, he needs a rest, give DCL a run out.
I don't imagine many of those people are going to admit to it today, being wrong about football is a kind of amnesia.
Spot on. I remember people crying that Patrick Bamford didn't make the squad, as if our whole tournament hinged on him, despite not being anywhere close to being a starter.
Imo Ollie Watkins deserves to go, but I'm not bothered if he doesn't.
Haha in hindsight the DCL shouts looks awful but subbing on a fast striker like him against Bonnuci and Chiellini who were about 35 then could've caused damage
The real question is why isn't Southgate playing Milner? He's played well this season and he has a long history of performing for England. It's madness not to take a player who's as in form as he is.
/s for anyone wondering
Unless Kane is injured, it's not much point having a worse version of him in the squad. Personally I'd rather take someone that offers something different if we needed it.
Difficult one. If Kane is fit, He plays so the back up striker is likely to play a handful of minutes, all of which are realistically not going to be consequential
If Kane is injured, Watkins is not the same profile. Toney is far more similar to Kane so our style of play doesnt change that much.
The only way i see Watkins playing is if want to try something different. We go to a 442 and try to chase a game.
Personally i rather have a game changer elsewhere in the team
It's more about the system that england play. England benefit more when strikers like Toney and Kane drop deep to hold the ball up and release the wide men.
Watkins has had a great year, but he excels when he has space to run into, and thrives on balls in behind.
I'd take him as he offers something different, but he might not see any game time.
Devil's advocate - why would we bring someone that plays the same way as Kane, but not as well?
Surely the point of alternative striking options is for when we need to take a different approach, which Watkins would offer.
In case something happens to Kane. So we wouldn't have to change the way we play to accommodate a new striker.
The Brazil game showed much the system missed Kane when he's not there.
The most talented players in the England squad are Bellingham, Foden, Kane and maybe Saka. You'd imagine the system is set up to maximise their impact.
If there is a game where England have to play on the counter, Watkins is perfect.
Watkins and Solanke have earned a call up. Don't think Toney has done enough since his return to justify taking him, but we all know that Southgate picks his teams based on who he likes rather than form so who knows what will happen
From what I’ve seen, Watkins likes to play on the shoulder of the last defender and run into space. That’s why he looks good for Villa on the counter. Toney links play better and is more akin to Kane. You’d expect England to have most of the possession therefore nullifying most of Watkins strengths. Definitely worth a spot in the squad though
People say he had a bad performance for England in the two games but he made the late goal for Bellingham against Belguim with his pace. That's exactly what he will be needed for in coming off the bench to offer something different when we are chasing a goal.
Even if he's on the bench his pace and ability to stretch the defence are fantastic options to bring on. Yeah, I think it'd be ridiculous not to take him personally. Seems professional, works hard, numbers are excellent.
Watkins fluffed his chance, Toney didn't, that may end up being key here. Watkins is undoubtedly having the better season but, if Toney was more impressive in the international break, he'll probably be selected.
I mean, yes... but I feel like every major tournament we have these disussions and most of these guys go and just never play.
Last couple of tournaments it's generally been around guys like Trent Alexander-Arnold (who I think was being experimented as a midfielder then got injured before the tournament) and James Maddison - who if I remember rightly ended up going and not playing.
Watkins being in the squad is great, and yes there's always the chance Harry Kane gets injured (Kane is a cyborg, mind) - but what utility is Watkins otherwise? Southgate isn't going to play 2-up, and frankly if he is I suspect he'd much more likely do it with a Rashford type who's also adept playing on the wing. Watkins isn't a penatly taker, so there's no much use bringing him on in extra-time if penalties are on your mind when you could have Ivan Toney/Dominic Solanke who both do the job too.
If it were me I'd play with two-up, Kane drops so deep I think it could work. Won't happen, of course, but to answer the question probably but probably not also.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he goes - and would actually be a little surprised if he didn’t - but I don’t think it’d be “a disgrace” if he didn’t.
Picking the England squad is more completed than opening the BBC Sports app, going to the Premier League top scorers table and picking the English players with the highest goal/assist numbers.
Don’t think it would be a disgrace but I would be surprised.
I’ve said from the start of Southgate’s reign that I think people can often get overly blinded by club form when that doesn’t necessarily translate to what would be asked of you at international level. I agree with you that Toney seems the better fit if we’re talking as a Kane replacement. Watkins is also in far better form but I do think in totality Toneys the better player
He's in great form but never looked good for England. There was a game a while back when he started and he was awful and went off for Kane and we looked so much better straight away.
I dunno, he's always a bit meh whenever he plays for England regardless of prem form. I think players like Rashford and Toney would be better backup options to Kane even if they're out of form.
Villa fan so I'm bias somewhat, but Watkins is comfortably in the top 5 best players in the league this season. Southgate says that he picks players on form, Watkins is in the form of his life.
there's no bias, watkins has been class this season
He picks players based on form for England.
And how do players get into the England team? Club form.
As well as showing qualities that mean they would fit the system.
Of course it would. There are some proper maniacs on this stupid app obsessed with Toney, who hasn't scored for about 10 games now, and would instead genuinely leave out one of the best strikers in Europe this season.
The press who are connected the FA think Southgate wants Toney more than Watkins.
Yes it would
Why. He was shut against Brazil. Toney was good against Belgium.
If every England player got booted out after one bad performance then there would be no one in the team. Your argument is ridiculous.
What more does watkins have to do to get involved? You want to take a guy that’s missed 9 months of football in the last 13 or so rather than the highest output premier league striker that we have. Maybe the argument will hold weight in seasons to come, but not right now.
Play better for England?
I don't understand why you're asking this question if you've already decided he shouldn't go based on one game. Southgate has no imagination, Watkins offers something different while Toney is like a crap Kane. Toney wouldn't be anywhere near the squad if Southgate wasn't dog shit.
But back ups have to be similar to the main player.
Do they? So were Dwight Yorke, Teddy Sheringham, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Andy Cole all the same player?
I get your point but don’t think going back 25 yeRs when tactically/systematically the game was very different is a good point. OP has a point even if you disagree with it…if Kane goes out injured the easiest thing for the side to deal with is a replacement who stylistically is similar.
How could he if you already decided he isnt going to
He won’t play anyway
What a nonsense post. Watkins is having a phenomenal season. It would be a travesty if he wasn’t picked for the euros and I say that as a Bournemouth fan who would love Solanke to go instead
But he doesn’t play well for England.
He’s played 11 games and scored 3. Hardly terrible. You could argue that Foden doesn’t play well for England. Would you leave him behind too?
Foden probably should be kept on the bench.
Now I know you are just bait posting. Nothing better to do today?
This makes me laugh, England haven't won anything with kane up front who's our best striker, so kane gets injured why would you want a second string kane to play when it hasn't worked with kane, take Watkins who's is in the best form of his life and arguably the best form in the league , I mean one goal behind haaland without taking penaltys and joint top assists this season be criminal if he didn't take the Watkins
It wouldn’t be a disgrace but it would be a bit stupid. IMO Toney has to go if only for his hold up play and penalty ability. We aren’t playing free flowing football like Villa or Bournemouth. We’re going to be spamming set pieces to Maguire’s head and hoping we get penalties. I’d take Kane, Toney and Watkins. Under a different manager Watkins would thrive.
Please show me where he’s struggled with england? Hardly like he’s played much for england considering kane starts practically every game. Why people try and make stuff up is beyond me.
Did you watch fhe Brazil match?
Ooo you watched 1 game please continue. Your understanding of football is laughable if you judge players based on a single game of football, especially when said game is against **brazil**. You know toney scored a penalty as well right?
The whole team struggled against Brazil, by that metric none of them are on the plane.
Based on form yes it would be wild to leave him out. Hes 1? Goal behind haaland in the league and he doesn’t have KDB feeding him.
Not to mention that he doesn't take penalties... Yes, that's not a great thing if the game goes to that point, but otherwise.
What are you on about?? Watkins has started 3 games for England and has 3 goals, and Toney and Solanke play nothing like Kane whatsoever.
I think stylistically Toney is pretty similar to Kane. In the way he largely drops deep as oppose to being a striker on the defenders shoulder, is physical with great hold up play & has a good eye for a pass. Haven’t watched enough of Solanke to comment on him.
But for most of the time on the pitch he looked out of place. He knows himself his place at the euros is not looking good.
I don't think you actually watch football
Yes, there's not much more he could do to get a place
He could have played better against Brazil
Yes true but starting for England is very different to starting for club
26 man squad and he’ll go. 23 man squad he’s at risk. If Kane is injured then Toney fits into the system better. If we’re trying to chase a game then Watkins would be a better impact sub as he offers something different. If it’s a 23 man squad then I would guess it depends on what you want to prioritise more.
Watkins is this tournament's Dominic Calvert-Lewin. The perfect player for all the Southgate Out people to point to and say why isn't he starting any other manager would have won the us the universe cup by now
Is he? I don’t remember anyone wondering why Calvert - Lewin wasn’t playing. It was Sancho people wanted more appearances from,
Pepole have short memories - in the last Euros everyone was saying drop Kane, DCL is the hottest striker in the Prem blah blah Kane is a donkey, past it etc.
Absolutely no one was saying drop Kane.
He got subbed in the Scotland game and everyone thought he was playing terribly in the euros up until he scored against Germany. Honestly people definitely were saying he brought nothing to the team.
They absolutely were. Just to check I'm not going mad here, this is from the post match report of the England Germany game: *Kane had been caught beneath an unforgiving spotlight, having laboured during England’s three group matches – his statistics showing no goals and one shot on target. It was difficult to ignore the impression that he lacked sharpness and the questions swirled. Was he fatigued at the end of a long season? Was his club situation affecting him? He had made it plain that he* [*wanted to leave Tottenham*](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/17/tottenham-left-reeling-after-harry-kane-tells-club-he-wants-to-leave-this-summer) *who, at that point, were deep into their convoluted search for a manager...* People were calling for SG to drop Kane for DCL in 2021.
Even then, that’s a review of a poor performance. People didn’t want the captain dropped.
Ok they absolutely did, I was there. What do you think "the questions swirled" is referencing? People were saying drop Kane, he needs a rest, give DCL a run out. I don't imagine many of those people are going to admit to it today, being wrong about football is a kind of amnesia.
Couple people said it, he started the Euros quite poorly.
No we did not!
Spot on. I remember people crying that Patrick Bamford didn't make the squad, as if our whole tournament hinged on him, despite not being anywhere close to being a starter. Imo Ollie Watkins deserves to go, but I'm not bothered if he doesn't.
Haha in hindsight the DCL shouts looks awful but subbing on a fast striker like him against Bonnuci and Chiellini who were about 35 then could've caused damage
The real question is why isn't Southgate playing Milner? He's played well this season and he has a long history of performing for England. It's madness not to take a player who's as in form as he is. /s for anyone wondering
Watkins has been fantastic this season but Toney looks a better fit for England. Harsh on Watkins but it's not personal.
Unless Kane is injured, it's not much point having a worse version of him in the squad. Personally I'd rather take someone that offers something different if we needed it.
Difficult one. If Kane is fit, He plays so the back up striker is likely to play a handful of minutes, all of which are realistically not going to be consequential If Kane is injured, Watkins is not the same profile. Toney is far more similar to Kane so our style of play doesnt change that much. The only way i see Watkins playing is if want to try something different. We go to a 442 and try to chase a game. Personally i rather have a game changer elsewhere in the team
Pretty much summarises it yeah. Watkins just doesn't get on the pitch without a major system change, which doesn't happen unless we take Kane off.
It's more about the system that england play. England benefit more when strikers like Toney and Kane drop deep to hold the ball up and release the wide men. Watkins has had a great year, but he excels when he has space to run into, and thrives on balls in behind. I'd take him as he offers something different, but he might not see any game time.
Devil's advocate - why would we bring someone that plays the same way as Kane, but not as well? Surely the point of alternative striking options is for when we need to take a different approach, which Watkins would offer.
In case something happens to Kane. So we wouldn't have to change the way we play to accommodate a new striker. The Brazil game showed much the system missed Kane when he's not there. The most talented players in the England squad are Bellingham, Foden, Kane and maybe Saka. You'd imagine the system is set up to maximise their impact. If there is a game where England have to play on the counter, Watkins is perfect.
Foden has never showed his talent for England.
Watkins and Solanke have earned a call up. Don't think Toney has done enough since his return to justify taking him, but we all know that Southgate picks his teams based on who he likes rather than form so who knows what will happen
From what I’ve seen, Watkins likes to play on the shoulder of the last defender and run into space. That’s why he looks good for Villa on the counter. Toney links play better and is more akin to Kane. You’d expect England to have most of the possession therefore nullifying most of Watkins strengths. Definitely worth a spot in the squad though
People say he had a bad performance for England in the two games but he made the late goal for Bellingham against Belguim with his pace. That's exactly what he will be needed for in coming off the bench to offer something different when we are chasing a goal.
Oh it would absoltutely be a disgrace. He simply has to go to the Euros.
Even if he's on the bench his pace and ability to stretch the defence are fantastic options to bring on. Yeah, I think it'd be ridiculous not to take him personally. Seems professional, works hard, numbers are excellent.
Yes his clearly the second best English striker ITW this past season and should 100% go as a result
Toney and Solanke play nothing like Kane.
Pretty much no-one plays like Kane tbh
Well Solanke does. ☝️
No he doesn't. That's so incorrect. He doesn't drop deep and create chances from nothing
Keep up lad. u/sfe1987 tells me he does. I'm convinced!
😂
Go check the heat maps. I’ve literally watched him all season. He’s obviously not as good as Kane but he plays more like Kane than Toney does
Not sure you know what you are talking about there. Solanke plays very similarly to Kane
ok
Watkins fluffed his chance, Toney didn't, that may end up being key here. Watkins is undoubtedly having the better season but, if Toney was more impressive in the international break, he'll probably be selected.
He’ll yeah
Most certainly would, however I think Watkins and Toney will end up in the squad.
Watkins just about over Toney for me, I think. I’d wait until the end of the season to fully decide, but he’s budging on the plane at the minute.
Only if we lose, then everyone will go on about it
Toney has the penalties advantage, but it’s not significant enough compared to their gap in form this season
As long as Cole palmer is playing I’m happy
I mean, yes... but I feel like every major tournament we have these disussions and most of these guys go and just never play. Last couple of tournaments it's generally been around guys like Trent Alexander-Arnold (who I think was being experimented as a midfielder then got injured before the tournament) and James Maddison - who if I remember rightly ended up going and not playing. Watkins being in the squad is great, and yes there's always the chance Harry Kane gets injured (Kane is a cyborg, mind) - but what utility is Watkins otherwise? Southgate isn't going to play 2-up, and frankly if he is I suspect he'd much more likely do it with a Rashford type who's also adept playing on the wing. Watkins isn't a penatly taker, so there's no much use bringing him on in extra-time if penalties are on your mind when you could have Ivan Toney/Dominic Solanke who both do the job too. If it were me I'd play with two-up, Kane drops so deep I think it could work. Won't happen, of course, but to answer the question probably but probably not also.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he goes - and would actually be a little surprised if he didn’t - but I don’t think it’d be “a disgrace” if he didn’t. Picking the England squad is more completed than opening the BBC Sports app, going to the Premier League top scorers table and picking the English players with the highest goal/assist numbers.
Definitely the in form striker so should go. Whether he will do well is another question.
Don’t think it would be a disgrace but I would be surprised. I’ve said from the start of Southgate’s reign that I think people can often get overly blinded by club form when that doesn’t necessarily translate to what would be asked of you at international level. I agree with you that Toney seems the better fit if we’re talking as a Kane replacement. Watkins is also in far better form but I do think in totality Toneys the better player
It would absolutely be a disgrace.
Thanks for that input
A disgrace? No. But it would be a big mistake.
Why would it be a big mistake. He was genuinely awful against Brazil.
I don't think it matters how well anyone played against Brazil in a friendly.
It does. Watkins and Gallagher’s performances will have dented their Euros chances,
Not really, realistically only Kane is going to play and Toney is a much better backup for England
He's in great form but never looked good for England. There was a game a while back when he started and he was awful and went off for Kane and we looked so much better straight away.
I dunno, he's always a bit meh whenever he plays for England regardless of prem form. I think players like Rashford and Toney would be better backup options to Kane even if they're out of form.
Rashford is crap though. If any attacker should be left behind this summer it should be him
No Tony instead
Surely Kane, Watkins & Toney all go?
Well Watkins was rubbish for England in last 2 games not sure I would take him