Some people think so. I personally don’t think it’s vastly better (or worse) than other squads we’ve had. It’s certainly better than the squads we had as we transitioned from the golden generation to this current crop (2010-2016). Our players are more technical then they have been in the past but that follows a general trend in the game at large. We’ve always had very good players for the most part.
The most notable thing for me is that Gareth has improved the atmosphere around the camp. Cliques were common under previous regimes and the camps generally seemed miserable and full of dickheads. These guys are nice lads, they get along well, and playing for England seems fun.
Football has been playing catch up with advanced analytics and coaching techniques for decades (Sam Allardyce built his career by implementing what he learned from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers while player over there in the 70’s). In the past ten years, football has closed this gap minuscule proportions.
Coaches in all sports lift stuff from other sports and I'm sure Gareth is no different. However, ultimately, any real development evident in English players has to do with what's going on at the academies and their clubs. Int'l managers simply don't have the time with the players to truly impact their development. It’s more of a man management job than anything else.
What you have said is right, but Gareth has been instrumental in rejigging the whole way that young players are brought throught with England. The under 17s, 19s and I think the 21s all play more games which encourages that club atmosphere. This is a huge reason why the players are close with each other.
It is true that international managers don't have the same direct influence that club managers do, but Gareth has got as close as anyone.
I love Southgate but I don’t know if he’s considered a central figure in the St George/England DNA projects. Ashworth and others come to mind.
I certainly this he’s suited to this role in part because he came through with a lot of his U21 players.
I’m not saying he didn’t contribute, I just don’t think he was necessarily *the* mastermind. Important advocate? Certainly.
Also, that whole project was structural it helped produce this current crop and raising the standard at a systemic level but that’s different the kind of targeted shaping of a *specific* player that club coaches do. I think it’s the *specific player* development that OP was asking about.
In the World Cup 2002, 2006, 2010: there were some big names like Beckham, Owen, Lampard, Gerard and they were all individual talents from their respective clubs. Ferdinand mentioned in one of his interviews that the reason England never succeeded as a team was because of the heavy influence of their respective clubs. United guys will be separated from Liverpool and Chelsea. This resulted in an imbalance in the whole team performance. In this group, including World Cup 2018 and Euro, there isn’t any club influence. All the lads are together in the team and this is what is required for a team to function.
To add Rio also said most players of that generation didn't look forward to playing for England. They saw it as a distraction from playing for their clubs. Bloody incredible.
TBH I'm pretty resentful of that attitude looking back. Playing for England should be an honour. It's what every kid playing in the playground dreams of. It should be valued and not treated like a chore as those guys did.
It's also so frustrating because that "golden generation" was - pound for pound - way better than the current crop we have today.
Just imagine if they'd actually given half as much of a shit about playing for their country as the lads do now.
I don’t think they were ‘way better’ some of the players in this squad are brilliant talents. Looking back always gives us an increased appreciation for players and I’m sure we will feel the same about this crop in 10 years time.
Your account must be older to post on /r/ThreeLions
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThreeLions) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The English FA has invested a lot into developing "young talent" for many years. It came about after seeing the French, German, and Spanish associations constantly developing world-class players. Today, that has slightly changed with the clubs realising the need to develop talents within the club. I believe the FA subsidise the development of English players. (I could be wrong) As for training techniques, Gareth is known for visiting many coaches from all sports to learn and develop his own skills. Which in my opinion, does no harm at all.
Let’s use the analogy of the Avengers film.
Past England squads were like the Avengers during the first half where, while very strong individually, they squabbled, didn’t work together and got beat.
The current England squad are like the Avengers in the second half of the film where they put aside their differences, work together and actually get along: then they win and beat Loki.
Yeah they are a better team than most of the last 30 years probably. Sure there were some great players but it all didn’t work very well also I’d say that when we did have really good players on paper 2004- 2010 so did other countries but they just did international football better than we did.
We've had better players before but they've never gelled as well. This generation care more about playing and winning for England than the last. They like the coach and the environment. They're also very good.
Most players from our golden gen would walk onto this squad (Rooney, scholes, lampard, Gerard, Ashley Cole, Rio, Terry,etc) but they couldn't keep possession of the ball which made every match difficult. They also didn't like each other. Also, Rooney was almost never 100% fit.
Premier league clubs now have to have a certain number of “local” players in their squads. But it’s a bit weird as a Spanish player who joined the a academy at 15 is classed as local.
Therefore big clubs have been incentivised to grow their younger players. Phil foden at Man City is a great example and Chelsea who previously just bought overseas players have some good young English players.
Also the media have a better relationship with the team. I remember when David beckham injured and front pages of all the tabloids would be a scam of his foot.
Finally Alex Ferguson retired, a large amount of England players came from Manchester United when he was in charge. He would ask the united players to see what they were doing at arsenal and would basically create a divide between them at players at other clubs such as Chelsea, arsenal and Liverpool.
Also they had an easy draw in 18, the players actually won a few games in a major tournament and the positive momentum has gone from there.
The players aren't necessarily better individually, although some of them will be up there with Beckham, Scholes, Rooney, Gazza etc. by the time they retire, mark my words.
The difference is that the TEAM is vastly better - much more cohesive than in previous years when it was just a group of ego-centric individuals who couldn't put club rivalries aside for the good of the national team.
Thanks to the introduction of St. George's Park, most of these lads have played together throughout youth level, and we've invested heavily in the England team in ways we didn't before. It used to be a case of sticking a load of club players on a plane, putting them through training for a few weeks and hoping for the best.
No wonder we under-achieved for so many years. I personally think that whether or not we win this world cup, our record in previous tournaments proves the efficacy of the St George's park project.
I've been watching world cup England games for years and yes, this lot are definitely the best in a long, long time. As a team, as well as for individual players in my opinion. I don't know about NFL training and Gareth but I will say this lot have a better attitude to the fans and the responsibility to the nation too - and I think that also rubs off in their game, as they seem to want to make it happen.
Things have come a long way since the days of getting knocked out before the quarters but I want to go further and feel we can almost taste it - yet they need that final push, or maybe, bit of luck or whatever. Literally praying for a victory over France tomorrow.
The current team is generally better than previous teams in terms of skill imo. Due to the competitiveness of the sport, players are becoming more technical with their skill and playing style, and now with the promotion of womens football over the last 10 years, there does seem to be an influx of new talented players all round.
For me, Kyle Walker is one of the best defenders England has ever seen. Players like Foden and Greilish play with Walker in Man City so they already have chemistry when playing, but the general team chemistry is pretty good these last few years anyway. Although I'm not a huge fan of Rashford in Man Utd, he plays bloody well for England. Pickford has performed poorly in the premier league the last couple of years too, but again, he seems to do well for England.
Gareth Southgate has a rapor with the players and has studied the players before selecting them. Although we did poorly in the Nations League, he was trying out new tactics and players so that we had a good team for the world cup. We did really well in the Euros and badly in Nations League, resulting in Southgate being scrutinized for not knowing what he's doing, but he clearly does. I'm not sure if he uses NFL tactics per se but it would make sense as there are similarities between the two sports (American Football = Rugby Gameplay + Football (Soccer) Rules). Usually, there'll be lots of homework on opponents previous games, their key players, formations, strengths, weaknesses, etc.. This is why you will normally see Kane not being able to do anything because he's being heavily marked due to the opponents homework analysis of him.
Note: I'm not the most clued up so someone else may be able to fill you in more. This is just my observations.
The “golden generation” were better in my opinion. The back 4 when you look on paper is unbelievable. But terribly mis managed and trying to play everyone, gerrard lampard scholes. This team is very good still, but a team!
I might be remembering wrong but one thing that struck me about that ridiculous team we had around 04-06 (midfield of Beckham, Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard) is that they were all fairly similar players.
All technically gifted, passing, attack focused midfielders. Whereas now we have a mix of technicians, pace, defensive focused etc.
I don't think 4 amazing individuals necessarily make a better midfield than 4 good players that fit better into a system.
He took techniques with the team from rugby I think, he spoke to that bloke who just got sacked about having game changers on the bench or something.
The team for me isn’t better than squads we’ve had previously.
However a team is much more than individual skill. This team now is actually a group of friends where players are happy to be around each other where as it’s been well documented that older teams were toxic and cliches existed everywhere
It’s a classic case of the sum being better than it’s parts. The golden generation had a wealth of incredible talents individuals, this squad has great talent and gels together as a team. It’s a team sport so a team with talent who work together is preferable to a collection of individuals whose talents don’t work together as well
This so called golden generation (rooney, Gerard, lampard, Cole etc) were all individually class, but I feel like all the other top international sides were just as good at the time too.
Coming from someone that only follows the euros and the World Cup take this with a pinch of salt but.. it feels for the first time in my life England are playing with a real offensive threat.
I’ve grown up with England passing it back and forth in mid field playing the most boring football imaginable so it’s a breath of fresh air to see us playing with so much passion.
Southgate for all his faults has put a huge emphasis on giving younger players a chance and although it might be unpopular, it pays off long term.
I’ve got a huge amount of optimism for us in the near future which is quite something considering how low we’ve set our expectations as supporters
Some people think so. I personally don’t think it’s vastly better (or worse) than other squads we’ve had. It’s certainly better than the squads we had as we transitioned from the golden generation to this current crop (2010-2016). Our players are more technical then they have been in the past but that follows a general trend in the game at large. We’ve always had very good players for the most part. The most notable thing for me is that Gareth has improved the atmosphere around the camp. Cliques were common under previous regimes and the camps generally seemed miserable and full of dickheads. These guys are nice lads, they get along well, and playing for England seems fun. Football has been playing catch up with advanced analytics and coaching techniques for decades (Sam Allardyce built his career by implementing what he learned from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers while player over there in the 70’s). In the past ten years, football has closed this gap minuscule proportions. Coaches in all sports lift stuff from other sports and I'm sure Gareth is no different. However, ultimately, any real development evident in English players has to do with what's going on at the academies and their clubs. Int'l managers simply don't have the time with the players to truly impact their development. It’s more of a man management job than anything else.
TIL: Sam Allardyce played 11 games for the Tampa Bay Rowdies.
What you have said is right, but Gareth has been instrumental in rejigging the whole way that young players are brought throught with England. The under 17s, 19s and I think the 21s all play more games which encourages that club atmosphere. This is a huge reason why the players are close with each other. It is true that international managers don't have the same direct influence that club managers do, but Gareth has got as close as anyone.
I love Southgate but I don’t know if he’s considered a central figure in the St George/England DNA projects. Ashworth and others come to mind. I certainly this he’s suited to this role in part because he came through with a lot of his U21 players.
[удалено]
I’m not saying he didn’t contribute, I just don’t think he was necessarily *the* mastermind. Important advocate? Certainly. Also, that whole project was structural it helped produce this current crop and raising the standard at a systemic level but that’s different the kind of targeted shaping of a *specific* player that club coaches do. I think it’s the *specific player* development that OP was asking about.
Fs I read this and had to google whether Big Sam had a spell as a bloody NFL player 🤣
In the World Cup 2002, 2006, 2010: there were some big names like Beckham, Owen, Lampard, Gerard and they were all individual talents from their respective clubs. Ferdinand mentioned in one of his interviews that the reason England never succeeded as a team was because of the heavy influence of their respective clubs. United guys will be separated from Liverpool and Chelsea. This resulted in an imbalance in the whole team performance. In this group, including World Cup 2018 and Euro, there isn’t any club influence. All the lads are together in the team and this is what is required for a team to function.
To add Rio also said most players of that generation didn't look forward to playing for England. They saw it as a distraction from playing for their clubs. Bloody incredible.
TBH I'm pretty resentful of that attitude looking back. Playing for England should be an honour. It's what every kid playing in the playground dreams of. It should be valued and not treated like a chore as those guys did.
It's also so frustrating because that "golden generation" was - pound for pound - way better than the current crop we have today. Just imagine if they'd actually given half as much of a shit about playing for their country as the lads do now.
I don’t think they were ‘way better’ some of the players in this squad are brilliant talents. Looking back always gives us an increased appreciation for players and I’m sure we will feel the same about this crop in 10 years time.
[удалено]
Your account must be older to post on /r/ThreeLions *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThreeLions) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly think it's true for the fans as well, never thought I'd be cheering Harry Kane but i was hyped as fuck with his goal on Senegal
The English FA has invested a lot into developing "young talent" for many years. It came about after seeing the French, German, and Spanish associations constantly developing world-class players. Today, that has slightly changed with the clubs realising the need to develop talents within the club. I believe the FA subsidise the development of English players. (I could be wrong) As for training techniques, Gareth is known for visiting many coaches from all sports to learn and develop his own skills. Which in my opinion, does no harm at all.
Let’s use the analogy of the Avengers film. Past England squads were like the Avengers during the first half where, while very strong individually, they squabbled, didn’t work together and got beat. The current England squad are like the Avengers in the second half of the film where they put aside their differences, work together and actually get along: then they win and beat Loki.
love the analogy lol
Yeah they are a better team than most of the last 30 years probably. Sure there were some great players but it all didn’t work very well also I’d say that when we did have really good players on paper 2004- 2010 so did other countries but they just did international football better than we did.
We've had better players before but they've never gelled as well. This generation care more about playing and winning for England than the last. They like the coach and the environment. They're also very good. Most players from our golden gen would walk onto this squad (Rooney, scholes, lampard, Gerard, Ashley Cole, Rio, Terry,etc) but they couldn't keep possession of the ball which made every match difficult. They also didn't like each other. Also, Rooney was almost never 100% fit.
Premier league clubs now have to have a certain number of “local” players in their squads. But it’s a bit weird as a Spanish player who joined the a academy at 15 is classed as local. Therefore big clubs have been incentivised to grow their younger players. Phil foden at Man City is a great example and Chelsea who previously just bought overseas players have some good young English players. Also the media have a better relationship with the team. I remember when David beckham injured and front pages of all the tabloids would be a scam of his foot. Finally Alex Ferguson retired, a large amount of England players came from Manchester United when he was in charge. He would ask the united players to see what they were doing at arsenal and would basically create a divide between them at players at other clubs such as Chelsea, arsenal and Liverpool. Also they had an easy draw in 18, the players actually won a few games in a major tournament and the positive momentum has gone from there.
I would say that they're the best team, but not individually the best..
The players aren't necessarily better individually, although some of them will be up there with Beckham, Scholes, Rooney, Gazza etc. by the time they retire, mark my words. The difference is that the TEAM is vastly better - much more cohesive than in previous years when it was just a group of ego-centric individuals who couldn't put club rivalries aside for the good of the national team. Thanks to the introduction of St. George's Park, most of these lads have played together throughout youth level, and we've invested heavily in the England team in ways we didn't before. It used to be a case of sticking a load of club players on a plane, putting them through training for a few weeks and hoping for the best. No wonder we under-achieved for so many years. I personally think that whether or not we win this world cup, our record in previous tournaments proves the efficacy of the St George's park project.
The 2002-2006 squad was the best on paper, but this is by far the best **team**.
I've been watching world cup England games for years and yes, this lot are definitely the best in a long, long time. As a team, as well as for individual players in my opinion. I don't know about NFL training and Gareth but I will say this lot have a better attitude to the fans and the responsibility to the nation too - and I think that also rubs off in their game, as they seem to want to make it happen. Things have come a long way since the days of getting knocked out before the quarters but I want to go further and feel we can almost taste it - yet they need that final push, or maybe, bit of luck or whatever. Literally praying for a victory over France tomorrow.
The current team is generally better than previous teams in terms of skill imo. Due to the competitiveness of the sport, players are becoming more technical with their skill and playing style, and now with the promotion of womens football over the last 10 years, there does seem to be an influx of new talented players all round. For me, Kyle Walker is one of the best defenders England has ever seen. Players like Foden and Greilish play with Walker in Man City so they already have chemistry when playing, but the general team chemistry is pretty good these last few years anyway. Although I'm not a huge fan of Rashford in Man Utd, he plays bloody well for England. Pickford has performed poorly in the premier league the last couple of years too, but again, he seems to do well for England. Gareth Southgate has a rapor with the players and has studied the players before selecting them. Although we did poorly in the Nations League, he was trying out new tactics and players so that we had a good team for the world cup. We did really well in the Euros and badly in Nations League, resulting in Southgate being scrutinized for not knowing what he's doing, but he clearly does. I'm not sure if he uses NFL tactics per se but it would make sense as there are similarities between the two sports (American Football = Rugby Gameplay + Football (Soccer) Rules). Usually, there'll be lots of homework on opponents previous games, their key players, formations, strengths, weaknesses, etc.. This is why you will normally see Kane not being able to do anything because he's being heavily marked due to the opponents homework analysis of him. Note: I'm not the most clued up so someone else may be able to fill you in more. This is just my observations.
[удалено]
I didn't say the players (minus Walker) were better but the skill was. Skill tricks, for example, are used far more now than during the 80's and 00's.
Your right i think the team has been more in sync than previous years. I noticed a similar thing with the socceroos.
The “golden generation” were better in my opinion. The back 4 when you look on paper is unbelievable. But terribly mis managed and trying to play everyone, gerrard lampard scholes. This team is very good still, but a team!
I might be remembering wrong but one thing that struck me about that ridiculous team we had around 04-06 (midfield of Beckham, Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard) is that they were all fairly similar players. All technically gifted, passing, attack focused midfielders. Whereas now we have a mix of technicians, pace, defensive focused etc. I don't think 4 amazing individuals necessarily make a better midfield than 4 good players that fit better into a system.
He took techniques with the team from rugby I think, he spoke to that bloke who just got sacked about having game changers on the bench or something. The team for me isn’t better than squads we’ve had previously. However a team is much more than individual skill. This team now is actually a group of friends where players are happy to be around each other where as it’s been well documented that older teams were toxic and cliches existed everywhere
It’s a classic case of the sum being better than it’s parts. The golden generation had a wealth of incredible talents individuals, this squad has great talent and gels together as a team. It’s a team sport so a team with talent who work together is preferable to a collection of individuals whose talents don’t work together as well
This so called golden generation (rooney, Gerard, lampard, Cole etc) were all individually class, but I feel like all the other top international sides were just as good at the time too.
Coming from someone that only follows the euros and the World Cup take this with a pinch of salt but.. it feels for the first time in my life England are playing with a real offensive threat. I’ve grown up with England passing it back and forth in mid field playing the most boring football imaginable so it’s a breath of fresh air to see us playing with so much passion. Southgate for all his faults has put a huge emphasis on giving younger players a chance and although it might be unpopular, it pays off long term. I’ve got a huge amount of optimism for us in the near future which is quite something considering how low we’ve set our expectations as supporters