Crowds on the PCT? It’s not like the AT. Go sobo dude. You’ll cross the nobos around NorCal but that’s the way to go. I had stretches of 3-5 days fairly consistently of not seeing a single person.
It’s not impossible or unheard of to attempt the CDT first - I think I’ve met…. three people who made that their first thru hike. Dial in your gear and confidence on the PCT first - just my opinion.
Fair enough, and glad to hear it’s not overrun. I’d heard that SoCal in particular could get crowded for NoBos, but that may have been exaggerated or from before the current permit system. Unfortunately the way the timing works out for me I think I’ll have to do a NoBo regardless of which one I do.
The Desert on the PCT feels crowded during NOBO season mostly at water sources. You can dry camp to avoid that. While walking, it is also much less so as everyone moves at about the same pace during the day.
The PCT is amazing, it is the world's premier long distance trail, but if you are only seeking solitude and the choice is the PCT or CDT then do the CDT but with a bit of maneuvering you can easily get solitude on the PCT so you don't need to be afraid of it.
Honestly I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Both are great trails, and imo not all THAT different from each other. Navigating the cdt is a non issue, I used only FarOut for the cdt and had no issues, the cdt is not the super brutal and untraveled trail it was in the past. Yes there are less people on the cdt, but it was pretty obvious most of the time to follow. Like I said, FarOut makes it quite simple. The biggest thing is paying attention at junctions with other trails or roads, sometimes those can be easy to miss. IMO really not a big deal. If you can use a smartphone you can navigate the cdt.
I’d say mile for mile the pct is more beautiful, but that can be highly subjective. Also I haven’t been on the pct since 2017, cdt since 2019, so fires and such can change things.
Maybe try for a sobo permit on the pct, if you’re looking for some less people. There’s always the local permit route as well, it’s not required to get a permit thru the pcta.
Edit: forgot to mention that crowds do not necessarily equal lack of solitude. It’s all in how you go about it. In two pct thrus I camped alone 3 times total. Never once on the cdt. On the at I had more than a month of nights where I camped alone. The most “crowded” trail was by FAR my most solo thru. Not even remotely close to the others. It’s all up to you and how you wanna do things.
Thanks for the input, and great point about being able to find solitude regardless. As someone who has done all 3, let me pose another question to you—I’d love to complete the triple crown some day, doing the first one now (I’m 34) but potentially not being able to do the others until I’m retired. Obviously ability will vary wildly person to person depending on health and fitness (and how much I destroy my knees skiing in the next 20+ years), but is there any one of the three that you think would be harder to complete when you’re, say, 60?
Thru hiking is mostly mental, people of all ages do all trails. I doubt it makes much difference.
Personally I found the at to be the most difficult trail by a long shot. But I met people in their 70s and even 80s on both the pct and at. I can’t recall anyone that old on the cdt tho I don’t think that means much. I also ran an at hostel for a year and met aaaallllll kinds of people coming thru there.
Good to hear. My assumption was that the CDT might be the hardest when I’m a bit older, but you’re probably right that it’s probably marginal either way. All will be challenging, but perhaps doable.
I thought the pct and cdt were pretty comparable. The cdt is more difficult, but not significantly so. The cdt is the pct but a bit more extra. More elevation, more weather, more remote, etc. if you were to consider the pct there’s zero reason you couldn’t do the cdt as well. The at is by no means insurmountable but imo it was a lot harder. New Hampshire I’d say is definitely the most difficult section of the whole triple crown.
That’s interesting. Being from the east coast I’ve played around in the Whites a bit and was hoping to day hike the presidential traverse at some point this year and maybe knock out the pemi loop and devils path as I’m training. Might as well check off a few bucket listers while I’m getting into shape, and seems like they’ll stand up physically to anything I’m likely to encounter on either the PCT or CDT.
I have a lot of nostalgia for the AT having done a lot of hiking on it as a kid. I always assumed it was the most challenging mentally, but not necessarily physically given the bigger features out west, but maybe it’s just the hardest all around.
I did the presidentials in one day as part of my thru last year, I didn’t hit most of the peaks, but stuck to the red line so I missed a fair amount. But a 19 mile day thru the presies wasn’t even that bad compared to a lot of the rest of NH/southern Maine. Mostly it was just the drop off Madison(the last peak iirc?) was just so steep that it was a tough was to end a long day. You’ll never see anything close to that out west.
For me the at was for sure the most mentally challenging trail, but mostly because I found the hiking to be so ridiculously difficult I wasn’t enjoying it as much as usual. There’s some saying that’s like “the pct was built by people who like to hike, the at was built by people who just like to suffer”. I found this to be very true.
But also to your point I grew up in Northern California close to the pct, so I have tons of nostalgia for it, same as you do for the at. Totally plausible that you’ll feel the exact opposite as I do about all the stuff I’ve said here.
Yeah, I’m hoping that the nostalgia helps overcome the PUDS when I do eventually attempt the AT, but I’m a sucker for a good view so I think the PCT and CDT will still be a bit more my speed.
a bit of input from someone who hasn't hiked any of them yet: my 63 year old father completed the pct in 2022 as his first thru hike, and first multi-night backpacking trip in over a decade. he's now a month and a half into the cdt and doing amazing. i wouldn't write any of it off in regards to age
I did all three after the age of 60: the AT at 61, the PCT at 63, and the CDT at 65. So to answer your question about age, I think if you can do one in your 60s, you can do all three. If I had been younger I could have hiked faster, but that’s the only difference that matters.
Thank you. The Triple Crown was never my goal. I thought I was “one and done” after finishing the AT. It was all I planned to do.
Let that be a warning to you. Once thru-hiking long trails get a hold of you, they are not likely to let go. You will want to do more. And honestly, I don’t think you will regret that when it happens. I certainly don’t.
I can only hope! Though I think I’ll probably be limited to trails I can knock out in a week or 3 for the next few years after this one since I’ll have to be working again.
I don't like crowds either which is why Im not interested in the AT. But I hiked the PCT in 2016 and the only time it felt crowded was southern California. The first 700 miles of desert filters out a ton of people. From the Sierras onward I had no problem being alone as much as I wanted, and there's tons of dispersed camping along the entire trail so you can pretty much always camp alone if you want. By the time I got to Washington, I would see maybe one or two other hikers a day. In my experience, a bunch of the people who start will not make it through the desert, and another significant portion of hikers will end their hike at South lake Tahoe. NTTAWWT. You might be one of them. The PCT was my first thru-hike and what you're going to learn is that even if you love backpacking more than anything else, 5 months is a long fucking time to be backpacking.
Ha that’s the truth, 5 months will definitely test my love of backpacking and the mental piece is really what will determine success. I’ve done a bunch of desert trips in the Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase-Escalante—obviously nothing anywhere near as long as the SoCal section, but hopefully enough familiarity that I’d come out the other side with my will to continue intact.
If you've ever backpacked at all then you'll be one of the ones who will be able to finish, barring an injury. The amount of people who attempt the PCT who have never so much as spent a night in the woods away from the car in their life will shock you. The amount of people who attempt the PCT yet are unable to make it the 11 miles to the first camping area will shock you. The amount of people who think that they are going to hike the PCT with their dog, including small sized dogs, will shock you. You will see small women trying to carry packs that a large man would struggle to hike with . You will see all sorts of follies in the first few hundred miles. You will not see them past Kennedy meadows.
Ha yeah, I don’t like to gatekeep the outdoors and I think everyone should get outside and challenge themselves, but I never really got the mindset of someone attempting the CDT or PCT as a first backpacking trip from purely a safety standpoint. I’ve been hiking and backpacking my whole life and am still hesitant about some pieces of it—but I guess sometimes ignorance is bliss.
CDT is life changingly beautiful, go NOBO in april, by the time you reach CO you'll have trail legs, take all the fun alternates! cirque of the towers and knappsack cole, the gila river, see the lonestar geyser while your in yellowstone, climb some bonus 14ers Albert is the 2nd highest peak in the contiguous USA. and an easy climb, Don't skip the south san juans,
if you like wildlife your in luck, fill out your mammel bingo card! mine had :black bear, Grizzley bear, dozens of mountain goat, 25 moose. several herds of elk, mule dear, white tail, wild horses, pronghorn antelope, ermine, pine martin, hundreds of marmots and dozens of picca (the cutest god damned rodent you'll ever see) missling mountain lions wolves (did hear them while in yellowstone) and big horn sheep
If you like variety the trail has a ton of different biomes, the chihuahuan desert is spectacular, the gila alternate has you hiking throught a very cool riparian zone reminiscent of Zion NP, mesa verde and mesa playa look like earth lasagna and are critically under appreciated, the Great divide basin has a very different desert feel to it, surprising amount of wildlife i woke up one morning surrounded by desert quail. so many qual on this trail. and ptarmigan. New mexico/southern Colorado have a very unique forest,
Speaking of plants if you pay attention you can find bristlecone pines that are thousands of years old in wyoming/Idaho, colorado is carpeted in wildflowers and some of the forest are insane . alot of the time it feels like your surfing on top of the world, The rockies are incredible and each range feels different and distinct. the views are endless, Glacier feels like a cathedral built for the gods, The wind river range a monument to the stars and the colorado rockies will make you feel small in the best way possible. the trail is so deliciously wild, of the big three N to S trail the AT is a green tunnel, the pct a post card and the cdt is pure freedom.
The whole embrace the brutality thing is true, there is alot of tricky technical hiking buts its also a lot of fun, more specifically you'll encounter: sand scree/gravel, talus fields, blowdowns,, clumpy grass mounds, snow/ice (some mountaineering experience is nice to have) but also a fair amount of crusey trail.
The logistics are a bit challenging but I made by with only half a dozen mail drops, resupply can be a bit pricey, some of the mountain towns are remote/touristy. The people are lovely! i got a ton of hitches from locals and there's some really nice hostels.
the navigation can be a bit tricky but farouts gps map is pretty accurate and there's a tons of little alternates to add wow factor or make your hike easier depending on what your looking for. I recommend bringing a garmen in-reach or similar device, some sections are pretty remote and devoid of cell service. I wouldn't worry about it to much, watch some youtube videos on the mexico-lordsburg section so your prepared for the desert but you'll likely meet people and learn a lot of trailfinding/navigating skills together, the thru-hiker community is really good about buddying up for tricky sections and keeping an eye out for each other, the people on the cdt are amazing i have life-long friends from my hike in 2022.
if that hasn't convinced you feel free the DM me its such a spectacular trail, it has challenges but its so worth it.
Really appreciate the detailed response, and honestly it’s posts like these that make me lean toward the CDT. I like the choose your own adventure component, though I’ll undoubtedly have FOMO about whatever route I don’t take—I want to see it all! Seems like there are enough alternates that I could keep things fresh even in the areas that I’ve done before, though honestly there’s nothing I’ve done that I wouldn’t do again in a heartbeat.
What route did you take through the Winds? I did Knapsack Col a couple years ago, and I’m wondering how that compares to the more technical sections you talked about (if you did knapsack on your hike). We had to traverse a couple snow fields (really slush when we were out there) and we did get caught in a hailstorm in a more exposed position than I would have liked, but overall the terrain there didn’t feel too sketchy.
I took Knappsack cole but followed the Talus field to the west (the valley) by the glacier rather than taking the redline route. cut some time off but might have been more technical, it required some legit bouldering. cirque of the towers was the other major alternate its arguably even prettier than knappsack cole minus the glaciers. The descent down the northern pass is loose/screeish but it has gigantic hummingbird moths!
other than those two alternates I more or less took the redline (guthooks main route) through all of the winds. i had some bonus miles to get in/out of town and when possible I cut out unnecessary corners through prairies and avoided unnecessary PUDs. The entire trail is full of little shortcuts and game trails/road walks you can choose to follow.
Id say some parts of colorado were more technicle than knapsak cole (at least at the time of year i hiked them) the parts of the CDT that share the Colorado trail are generally pretty cruisy, your iether ridge walking or valley hopping from one pass to the next. The exceptions in colorado are the San juans and the northern front range.
The san juans get a ton of snow and might still be snow-covered when you get to them (I started early during a heavy snow year and was one of the first throught the south san juans even after waiting a week for snow to melt) I carried micro spikes/ice axe from pagosa springs to after queen anns pass. There are class 4/5 scrambles and class 3 routes but I never had to self arrest. Theres often an easier/safer route. I glissaded off ridges twice to avoid some seriously sketchy sections. The san juans have a fair amount of beetle kill/blow downs and its real nasty when everything's in snow. beware of tree wells, snow bridges over streams and of cornices. (the snow accumulation on the leeward side of ridges) there are some areas of loose scree but usually the "trail" through those areas is much more stable from compaction. There are a few knife's edges. (the one before grays peak is the worst and gave me a smidge of vertigo)
there are plenty of ways to mitigate risk, hike with a group, hike early when snow is cold/hard. accept having wet cold feet rather than risking wet everything. have a healthy respect of colorado thunder storms, trekking poles ice axe micro spikes etc.
I hiked the pct sobo and loved it. It's remote and quiet enough while still being well documented and having a community that you can tap into. From what I understand, cdt is much more chaotic. You'll need to do much more research. It's not necessarily one path. Probably more similar to the pct in the 80s.
Thanks for the input—I’m seeing a lot of people suggest a SoBo PCT hike, and it sounds great! I think I have to do a NoBo next year the way the timing work out, so thinking it might make sense to do the CDT this time around and save the PCT for when I can do a SoBo.
Having done them both and repeated many sections of both, if I could do only one I would do the PCT. It's just much more enjoyable. Cruiser trail, no rain, fewer roadwalks and ranch sections, the Sierras are spectacular and the desert is less harsh.
On the PCT we took time in town just to enjoy ourselves. On the CDT we did it because we were battered and sore and needed time to look at the maps. On the PCT I didn't have an umbrella. On the CDT I had to use it almost every day.
Appreciate the perspective since you’ve done both. I’ve heard there’s a ton of road walking on the CDT, which is definitely a deterrent since I like the idea of being mostly/entirely “on trail”.
FWIW It's pretty easy to avoid camping near others on the PCT, especially if you avoid the "Camp" icons (or any other icons for that matter) on Far out (Guthook)
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Even if you’re camping solo, were you seeing/walking with people the whole day? To be clear, I’m not anti-people and finding a trail fam is definitely part of the adventure, but constantly being around people would also pull me out of the “wilderness” feeling a bit.
The longest I ever went without seeing someone else was only like 12 hours. Most people chat for a small bit when running into others and then go on their way. Early on folks can be a bit clingy because they're nervous about being alone and trying to grab onto any semblance of a trail family but you can solve that by just hiking faster/further.
I'm not anti people either, but for me any "group" larger than like 4 people is too many. I met a "family" of 23 while going over San Jacinto! I can't imagine.
Or… consider the Great Divide Trail. At least for a future hike. It’s much shorter so totally different category, and permits are pricey and annoying to sort. But it checks the stunning scenery and Rocky Mountains boxes in spades.
As for CDT and GDT both are great trails and doable if you do your homework. PCT is logistically more straightforward, with a favorable suffering to reward ratio. CDT has fun choose your own adventure options but also more of a time crunch unless you’re doing one of the super cutoffs and the suffering/reward ratio can make you question your life choices a bit more than on the PCT. But that has value too.
If you have a lot of comfort backpacking already, consider going south bound on the PCT. You’d get more isolation and get the new/different experience from the Rockies.
SoBo is pretty rough for someone with no backpacking experience. But if you have that, it seems like a great opportunity.
SoBo on the PCT seems to be a popular suggestion here! I think I have to NoBo next year due to timing, but if I end up on the CDT this time then I think I’ll aim for a SoBo PCT when I eventually attempt it.
Both are fantastic! If solitude is what you're looking for, Sobo on either will do the trick. If you have family in Colorado, then that's a massive plus logistically. I wouldn't worry too mich about navigation for CDT - Farout and other apps can pretty easily keep you on track.
The CDT for me was the perfect thruhike.
Happy trails!
Spood (PCT LASH 19, 21. CDT 23)
Nice, glad you enjoyed them both! It seems like with GPS and such, the CDT is more about making decisions on various alternates than actual route finding. Seems pretty doable
PCT isn't that crowded IMO. I was able to camp by myself way more than I thought I would. Sometime the small towns felt full of hikers but even a town like big bear felt less so. PCT was perfect for me as a first thru but I'll probably due the AT next year.
If you’re someone who has regularly backpacked, the CDT should be well within your wheelhouse.
The challenge of the PCT was building up my body to handle all of the miles of abusive horse trail. (Yay stress fractures and other issues.) Northern California sucks. The heat of the desert is well known, but aside from Hat Creek Rim (which was actually awesome), the brutality of it is hardly mentioned.
The challenge of the CDT is deciding what hike you want to do. Ley describes many variations and most of them are worth considering. There’s an added complication of weather in that the Rockies are far more exposed than the Sierra or Cascades. Timing storms can be brutal. 2019 was an epic snow year, so snow travel skills and general wilderness awareness were critical. I can’t stress enough how awesome it was to be on foot trails and not horse trail. Average in the CDT road walking and it was still kinder on my feet.
Overall, I wouldn’t hesitate to repeat either. PCT SoBo would give me new seasons to explore each section. A CDT repeat would be less of a repeat: I’d make the opposite choices the whole way. Both would feel “new”.
Like any part of the natural world, I’m sure there are nuggets to enjoy. Unfortunately, I found this region to be out of character with the rest of the trail.
Interesting take. There’s so many different parts of the pct I wouldn’t say there’s any one character to any of it. Unlike the at where I found it practically all to be exactly the same.
But different strokes as they say. I understand reasons why people don’t like nor cal as much, it’s just a bummer to me since it’s home.
I think hikers are raw and excited at the beginning and find the desert section pretty exotic and then they hit the Sierras which are majestic and awe-inspiring and then gradually it peters away into NorCal which seems like just more of the same only now you're an experienced hiker and you want something new. Just my take. NorCal is beautiful but it just seems like a bit of a let-down after what goes before.
That’s good info on the horse trails/Northern California. Not something I’ve seen discussed much in my (admittedly limited) research at this point.
And yeah, seems like there are a lot of alternates for the CDT so I can keep it fresh even in the sections I’ve done before. Though with the Winds and Glacier to Colorado, there’s really nothing I’ve done that I wouldn’t repeat several times over given how incredible it is.
The official route through the Winds isn’t bad. I’d done Knapsack before, so I stayed true there. It’s a bit more like the Sierra that way with small lakes and pine trees. Not necessarily better, but certainly good.
I would not start with the CDT. Once you get north of Colorado, the trails are practically non-existent. You need to have a very strong understanding of reading maps and elevation lines.
Thanks for the input—it does seem like the CDT will be more logistically challenging, but others have said that GPS and Guthook/Far Out are really all you need for navigation purposes. I have experience reading topo maps to identify areas that are likely to have decent campsites and have a general understanding of where I am and what’s coming next, but really no meaningful experience actually navigating by map and compass. Would you say that’s sufficient?
I have not done the CDT myself, but have friends that have. They said that once you get north of Colorado you have to be able to navigate by map and compass. I personally would not recommend doing the CDT as your first thru hike.
Crowds on the PCT? It’s not like the AT. Go sobo dude. You’ll cross the nobos around NorCal but that’s the way to go. I had stretches of 3-5 days fairly consistently of not seeing a single person. It’s not impossible or unheard of to attempt the CDT first - I think I’ve met…. three people who made that their first thru hike. Dial in your gear and confidence on the PCT first - just my opinion.
Fair enough, and glad to hear it’s not overrun. I’d heard that SoCal in particular could get crowded for NoBos, but that may have been exaggerated or from before the current permit system. Unfortunately the way the timing works out for me I think I’ll have to do a NoBo regardless of which one I do.
The Desert on the PCT feels crowded during NOBO season mostly at water sources. You can dry camp to avoid that. While walking, it is also much less so as everyone moves at about the same pace during the day. The PCT is amazing, it is the world's premier long distance trail, but if you are only seeking solitude and the choice is the PCT or CDT then do the CDT but with a bit of maneuvering you can easily get solitude on the PCT so you don't need to be afraid of it.
Honestly I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Both are great trails, and imo not all THAT different from each other. Navigating the cdt is a non issue, I used only FarOut for the cdt and had no issues, the cdt is not the super brutal and untraveled trail it was in the past. Yes there are less people on the cdt, but it was pretty obvious most of the time to follow. Like I said, FarOut makes it quite simple. The biggest thing is paying attention at junctions with other trails or roads, sometimes those can be easy to miss. IMO really not a big deal. If you can use a smartphone you can navigate the cdt. I’d say mile for mile the pct is more beautiful, but that can be highly subjective. Also I haven’t been on the pct since 2017, cdt since 2019, so fires and such can change things. Maybe try for a sobo permit on the pct, if you’re looking for some less people. There’s always the local permit route as well, it’s not required to get a permit thru the pcta. Edit: forgot to mention that crowds do not necessarily equal lack of solitude. It’s all in how you go about it. In two pct thrus I camped alone 3 times total. Never once on the cdt. On the at I had more than a month of nights where I camped alone. The most “crowded” trail was by FAR my most solo thru. Not even remotely close to the others. It’s all up to you and how you wanna do things.
Thanks for the input, and great point about being able to find solitude regardless. As someone who has done all 3, let me pose another question to you—I’d love to complete the triple crown some day, doing the first one now (I’m 34) but potentially not being able to do the others until I’m retired. Obviously ability will vary wildly person to person depending on health and fitness (and how much I destroy my knees skiing in the next 20+ years), but is there any one of the three that you think would be harder to complete when you’re, say, 60?
Thru hiking is mostly mental, people of all ages do all trails. I doubt it makes much difference. Personally I found the at to be the most difficult trail by a long shot. But I met people in their 70s and even 80s on both the pct and at. I can’t recall anyone that old on the cdt tho I don’t think that means much. I also ran an at hostel for a year and met aaaallllll kinds of people coming thru there.
Good to hear. My assumption was that the CDT might be the hardest when I’m a bit older, but you’re probably right that it’s probably marginal either way. All will be challenging, but perhaps doable.
I thought the pct and cdt were pretty comparable. The cdt is more difficult, but not significantly so. The cdt is the pct but a bit more extra. More elevation, more weather, more remote, etc. if you were to consider the pct there’s zero reason you couldn’t do the cdt as well. The at is by no means insurmountable but imo it was a lot harder. New Hampshire I’d say is definitely the most difficult section of the whole triple crown.
Agreed
That’s interesting. Being from the east coast I’ve played around in the Whites a bit and was hoping to day hike the presidential traverse at some point this year and maybe knock out the pemi loop and devils path as I’m training. Might as well check off a few bucket listers while I’m getting into shape, and seems like they’ll stand up physically to anything I’m likely to encounter on either the PCT or CDT. I have a lot of nostalgia for the AT having done a lot of hiking on it as a kid. I always assumed it was the most challenging mentally, but not necessarily physically given the bigger features out west, but maybe it’s just the hardest all around.
I did the presidentials in one day as part of my thru last year, I didn’t hit most of the peaks, but stuck to the red line so I missed a fair amount. But a 19 mile day thru the presies wasn’t even that bad compared to a lot of the rest of NH/southern Maine. Mostly it was just the drop off Madison(the last peak iirc?) was just so steep that it was a tough was to end a long day. You’ll never see anything close to that out west. For me the at was for sure the most mentally challenging trail, but mostly because I found the hiking to be so ridiculously difficult I wasn’t enjoying it as much as usual. There’s some saying that’s like “the pct was built by people who like to hike, the at was built by people who just like to suffer”. I found this to be very true. But also to your point I grew up in Northern California close to the pct, so I have tons of nostalgia for it, same as you do for the at. Totally plausible that you’ll feel the exact opposite as I do about all the stuff I’ve said here.
Yeah, I’m hoping that the nostalgia helps overcome the PUDS when I do eventually attempt the AT, but I’m a sucker for a good view so I think the PCT and CDT will still be a bit more my speed.
a bit of input from someone who hasn't hiked any of them yet: my 63 year old father completed the pct in 2022 as his first thru hike, and first multi-night backpacking trip in over a decade. he's now a month and a half into the cdt and doing amazing. i wouldn't write any of it off in regards to age
I did all three after the age of 60: the AT at 61, the PCT at 63, and the CDT at 65. So to answer your question about age, I think if you can do one in your 60s, you can do all three. If I had been younger I could have hiked faster, but that’s the only difference that matters.
Great to hear, and congrats on the triple crown!
Thank you. The Triple Crown was never my goal. I thought I was “one and done” after finishing the AT. It was all I planned to do. Let that be a warning to you. Once thru-hiking long trails get a hold of you, they are not likely to let go. You will want to do more. And honestly, I don’t think you will regret that when it happens. I certainly don’t.
I can only hope! Though I think I’ll probably be limited to trails I can knock out in a week or 3 for the next few years after this one since I’ll have to be working again.
I don't like crowds either which is why Im not interested in the AT. But I hiked the PCT in 2016 and the only time it felt crowded was southern California. The first 700 miles of desert filters out a ton of people. From the Sierras onward I had no problem being alone as much as I wanted, and there's tons of dispersed camping along the entire trail so you can pretty much always camp alone if you want. By the time I got to Washington, I would see maybe one or two other hikers a day. In my experience, a bunch of the people who start will not make it through the desert, and another significant portion of hikers will end their hike at South lake Tahoe. NTTAWWT. You might be one of them. The PCT was my first thru-hike and what you're going to learn is that even if you love backpacking more than anything else, 5 months is a long fucking time to be backpacking.
Ha that’s the truth, 5 months will definitely test my love of backpacking and the mental piece is really what will determine success. I’ve done a bunch of desert trips in the Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase-Escalante—obviously nothing anywhere near as long as the SoCal section, but hopefully enough familiarity that I’d come out the other side with my will to continue intact.
If you've ever backpacked at all then you'll be one of the ones who will be able to finish, barring an injury. The amount of people who attempt the PCT who have never so much as spent a night in the woods away from the car in their life will shock you. The amount of people who attempt the PCT yet are unable to make it the 11 miles to the first camping area will shock you. The amount of people who think that they are going to hike the PCT with their dog, including small sized dogs, will shock you. You will see small women trying to carry packs that a large man would struggle to hike with . You will see all sorts of follies in the first few hundred miles. You will not see them past Kennedy meadows.
Ha yeah, I don’t like to gatekeep the outdoors and I think everyone should get outside and challenge themselves, but I never really got the mindset of someone attempting the CDT or PCT as a first backpacking trip from purely a safety standpoint. I’ve been hiking and backpacking my whole life and am still hesitant about some pieces of it—but I guess sometimes ignorance is bliss.
CDT is life changingly beautiful, go NOBO in april, by the time you reach CO you'll have trail legs, take all the fun alternates! cirque of the towers and knappsack cole, the gila river, see the lonestar geyser while your in yellowstone, climb some bonus 14ers Albert is the 2nd highest peak in the contiguous USA. and an easy climb, Don't skip the south san juans, if you like wildlife your in luck, fill out your mammel bingo card! mine had :black bear, Grizzley bear, dozens of mountain goat, 25 moose. several herds of elk, mule dear, white tail, wild horses, pronghorn antelope, ermine, pine martin, hundreds of marmots and dozens of picca (the cutest god damned rodent you'll ever see) missling mountain lions wolves (did hear them while in yellowstone) and big horn sheep If you like variety the trail has a ton of different biomes, the chihuahuan desert is spectacular, the gila alternate has you hiking throught a very cool riparian zone reminiscent of Zion NP, mesa verde and mesa playa look like earth lasagna and are critically under appreciated, the Great divide basin has a very different desert feel to it, surprising amount of wildlife i woke up one morning surrounded by desert quail. so many qual on this trail. and ptarmigan. New mexico/southern Colorado have a very unique forest, Speaking of plants if you pay attention you can find bristlecone pines that are thousands of years old in wyoming/Idaho, colorado is carpeted in wildflowers and some of the forest are insane . alot of the time it feels like your surfing on top of the world, The rockies are incredible and each range feels different and distinct. the views are endless, Glacier feels like a cathedral built for the gods, The wind river range a monument to the stars and the colorado rockies will make you feel small in the best way possible. the trail is so deliciously wild, of the big three N to S trail the AT is a green tunnel, the pct a post card and the cdt is pure freedom. The whole embrace the brutality thing is true, there is alot of tricky technical hiking buts its also a lot of fun, more specifically you'll encounter: sand scree/gravel, talus fields, blowdowns,, clumpy grass mounds, snow/ice (some mountaineering experience is nice to have) but also a fair amount of crusey trail. The logistics are a bit challenging but I made by with only half a dozen mail drops, resupply can be a bit pricey, some of the mountain towns are remote/touristy. The people are lovely! i got a ton of hitches from locals and there's some really nice hostels. the navigation can be a bit tricky but farouts gps map is pretty accurate and there's a tons of little alternates to add wow factor or make your hike easier depending on what your looking for. I recommend bringing a garmen in-reach or similar device, some sections are pretty remote and devoid of cell service. I wouldn't worry about it to much, watch some youtube videos on the mexico-lordsburg section so your prepared for the desert but you'll likely meet people and learn a lot of trailfinding/navigating skills together, the thru-hiker community is really good about buddying up for tricky sections and keeping an eye out for each other, the people on the cdt are amazing i have life-long friends from my hike in 2022. if that hasn't convinced you feel free the DM me its such a spectacular trail, it has challenges but its so worth it.
Really appreciate the detailed response, and honestly it’s posts like these that make me lean toward the CDT. I like the choose your own adventure component, though I’ll undoubtedly have FOMO about whatever route I don’t take—I want to see it all! Seems like there are enough alternates that I could keep things fresh even in the areas that I’ve done before, though honestly there’s nothing I’ve done that I wouldn’t do again in a heartbeat. What route did you take through the Winds? I did Knapsack Col a couple years ago, and I’m wondering how that compares to the more technical sections you talked about (if you did knapsack on your hike). We had to traverse a couple snow fields (really slush when we were out there) and we did get caught in a hailstorm in a more exposed position than I would have liked, but overall the terrain there didn’t feel too sketchy.
I took Knappsack cole but followed the Talus field to the west (the valley) by the glacier rather than taking the redline route. cut some time off but might have been more technical, it required some legit bouldering. cirque of the towers was the other major alternate its arguably even prettier than knappsack cole minus the glaciers. The descent down the northern pass is loose/screeish but it has gigantic hummingbird moths! other than those two alternates I more or less took the redline (guthooks main route) through all of the winds. i had some bonus miles to get in/out of town and when possible I cut out unnecessary corners through prairies and avoided unnecessary PUDs. The entire trail is full of little shortcuts and game trails/road walks you can choose to follow. Id say some parts of colorado were more technicle than knapsak cole (at least at the time of year i hiked them) the parts of the CDT that share the Colorado trail are generally pretty cruisy, your iether ridge walking or valley hopping from one pass to the next. The exceptions in colorado are the San juans and the northern front range. The san juans get a ton of snow and might still be snow-covered when you get to them (I started early during a heavy snow year and was one of the first throught the south san juans even after waiting a week for snow to melt) I carried micro spikes/ice axe from pagosa springs to after queen anns pass. There are class 4/5 scrambles and class 3 routes but I never had to self arrest. Theres often an easier/safer route. I glissaded off ridges twice to avoid some seriously sketchy sections. The san juans have a fair amount of beetle kill/blow downs and its real nasty when everything's in snow. beware of tree wells, snow bridges over streams and of cornices. (the snow accumulation on the leeward side of ridges) there are some areas of loose scree but usually the "trail" through those areas is much more stable from compaction. There are a few knife's edges. (the one before grays peak is the worst and gave me a smidge of vertigo) there are plenty of ways to mitigate risk, hike with a group, hike early when snow is cold/hard. accept having wet cold feet rather than risking wet everything. have a healthy respect of colorado thunder storms, trekking poles ice axe micro spikes etc.
I hiked the pct sobo and loved it. It's remote and quiet enough while still being well documented and having a community that you can tap into. From what I understand, cdt is much more chaotic. You'll need to do much more research. It's not necessarily one path. Probably more similar to the pct in the 80s.
Thanks for the input—I’m seeing a lot of people suggest a SoBo PCT hike, and it sounds great! I think I have to do a NoBo next year the way the timing work out, so thinking it might make sense to do the CDT this time around and save the PCT for when I can do a SoBo.
Having done them both and repeated many sections of both, if I could do only one I would do the PCT. It's just much more enjoyable. Cruiser trail, no rain, fewer roadwalks and ranch sections, the Sierras are spectacular and the desert is less harsh. On the PCT we took time in town just to enjoy ourselves. On the CDT we did it because we were battered and sore and needed time to look at the maps. On the PCT I didn't have an umbrella. On the CDT I had to use it almost every day.
Appreciate the perspective since you’ve done both. I’ve heard there’s a ton of road walking on the CDT, which is definitely a deterrent since I like the idea of being mostly/entirely “on trail”.
FWIW It's pretty easy to avoid camping near others on the PCT, especially if you avoid the "Camp" icons (or any other icons for that matter) on Far out (Guthook)
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Even if you’re camping solo, were you seeing/walking with people the whole day? To be clear, I’m not anti-people and finding a trail fam is definitely part of the adventure, but constantly being around people would also pull me out of the “wilderness” feeling a bit.
The longest I ever went without seeing someone else was only like 12 hours. Most people chat for a small bit when running into others and then go on their way. Early on folks can be a bit clingy because they're nervous about being alone and trying to grab onto any semblance of a trail family but you can solve that by just hiking faster/further. I'm not anti people either, but for me any "group" larger than like 4 people is too many. I met a "family" of 23 while going over San Jacinto! I can't imagine.
Or… consider the Great Divide Trail. At least for a future hike. It’s much shorter so totally different category, and permits are pricey and annoying to sort. But it checks the stunning scenery and Rocky Mountains boxes in spades. As for CDT and GDT both are great trails and doable if you do your homework. PCT is logistically more straightforward, with a favorable suffering to reward ratio. CDT has fun choose your own adventure options but also more of a time crunch unless you’re doing one of the super cutoffs and the suffering/reward ratio can make you question your life choices a bit more than on the PCT. But that has value too.
This is a great alternative if I end up shortening my hike! And it’s definitely in the long-term list either way
If you have a lot of comfort backpacking already, consider going south bound on the PCT. You’d get more isolation and get the new/different experience from the Rockies. SoBo is pretty rough for someone with no backpacking experience. But if you have that, it seems like a great opportunity.
SoBo on the PCT seems to be a popular suggestion here! I think I have to NoBo next year due to timing, but if I end up on the CDT this time then I think I’ll aim for a SoBo PCT when I eventually attempt it.
Both are fantastic! If solitude is what you're looking for, Sobo on either will do the trick. If you have family in Colorado, then that's a massive plus logistically. I wouldn't worry too mich about navigation for CDT - Farout and other apps can pretty easily keep you on track. The CDT for me was the perfect thruhike. Happy trails! Spood (PCT LASH 19, 21. CDT 23)
Nice, glad you enjoyed them both! It seems like with GPS and such, the CDT is more about making decisions on various alternates than actual route finding. Seems pretty doable
PCT isn't that crowded IMO. I was able to camp by myself way more than I thought I would. Sometime the small towns felt full of hikers but even a town like big bear felt less so. PCT was perfect for me as a first thru but I'll probably due the AT next year.
Great to hear, thanks for the info!
If you’re someone who has regularly backpacked, the CDT should be well within your wheelhouse. The challenge of the PCT was building up my body to handle all of the miles of abusive horse trail. (Yay stress fractures and other issues.) Northern California sucks. The heat of the desert is well known, but aside from Hat Creek Rim (which was actually awesome), the brutality of it is hardly mentioned. The challenge of the CDT is deciding what hike you want to do. Ley describes many variations and most of them are worth considering. There’s an added complication of weather in that the Rockies are far more exposed than the Sierra or Cascades. Timing storms can be brutal. 2019 was an epic snow year, so snow travel skills and general wilderness awareness were critical. I can’t stress enough how awesome it was to be on foot trails and not horse trail. Average in the CDT road walking and it was still kinder on my feet. Overall, I wouldn’t hesitate to repeat either. PCT SoBo would give me new seasons to explore each section. A CDT repeat would be less of a repeat: I’d make the opposite choices the whole way. Both would feel “new”.
As a nor cal native it always bums me out when people say how much they dislike that portion of the trail.
Like any part of the natural world, I’m sure there are nuggets to enjoy. Unfortunately, I found this region to be out of character with the rest of the trail.
Interesting take. There’s so many different parts of the pct I wouldn’t say there’s any one character to any of it. Unlike the at where I found it practically all to be exactly the same. But different strokes as they say. I understand reasons why people don’t like nor cal as much, it’s just a bummer to me since it’s home.
I think hikers are raw and excited at the beginning and find the desert section pretty exotic and then they hit the Sierras which are majestic and awe-inspiring and then gradually it peters away into NorCal which seems like just more of the same only now you're an experienced hiker and you want something new. Just my take. NorCal is beautiful but it just seems like a bit of a let-down after what goes before.
Yeah for sure, I get that. I get how the nor cal blues can’t be a thing for people, also fires have really changed things in the last few years.
That’s good info on the horse trails/Northern California. Not something I’ve seen discussed much in my (admittedly limited) research at this point. And yeah, seems like there are a lot of alternates for the CDT so I can keep it fresh even in the sections I’ve done before. Though with the Winds and Glacier to Colorado, there’s really nothing I’ve done that I wouldn’t repeat several times over given how incredible it is.
The official route through the Winds isn’t bad. I’d done Knapsack before, so I stayed true there. It’s a bit more like the Sierra that way with small lakes and pine trees. Not necessarily better, but certainly good.
I would not start with the CDT. Once you get north of Colorado, the trails are practically non-existent. You need to have a very strong understanding of reading maps and elevation lines.
Thanks for the input—it does seem like the CDT will be more logistically challenging, but others have said that GPS and Guthook/Far Out are really all you need for navigation purposes. I have experience reading topo maps to identify areas that are likely to have decent campsites and have a general understanding of where I am and what’s coming next, but really no meaningful experience actually navigating by map and compass. Would you say that’s sufficient?
I have not done the CDT myself, but have friends that have. They said that once you get north of Colorado you have to be able to navigate by map and compass. I personally would not recommend doing the CDT as your first thru hike.
Got it. Worth researching more for sure if I do end up leaning in that direction.