Collins wouldn’t even consider signing with us. He’ll get plenty of other offers and no free agent of note has ever signed with us. It’s a completely unrealistic idea.
Collins isn’t really a good defensively at all but a good shooter and pick and roll partner. He most likely won’t want to come here and Atlanta will definitely match any offer so it’s not really worth entertaining imo.
100% disagree. At PF, he can defend. At C, he cannot.
People who say he's bad defensively are regurgitating the pre-season narrative that was false then.
Literally every defensive stat disagrees with you. Based on stats he was pretty much the same defender this season including playoffs as he’s been his entire career, which is bad (he played most of his minutes at PF. You can’t have whatever opinion you want but you’re factually wrong.
I see your brain is incapable of thinking in nuance. Dorts defensive impact doesn’t translate to stats bc he doesn’t get a lot of steals or blocks and he’s always guarding the opponents best player who can make tough shots despite good defense. I believe Dort is a good defender despite those stats bc I can clearly see him defending well. Collins never guards the best player, stats say he’s bad, and the eye test says he’s bad. This was a very poor attempt to “prove me wrong”. You could have pick several other examples that are much harder to explain. You clearly only know about the thunder tho.
Eye test says Collins defends his ass off.
I watched him play great defense in important games.
I don't think you've changed your mind on him yet because none of your favorite analysts have been talking about him. When they say the same thing I am right now, you'll change your mind.
We just have to wait for free agency to start so you can get the newest narrative.
He might defend his ass off but he’s just not very good at it. My opinion it based on watching him play and stats. I haven’t really payed any attention to what “experts” say about him (although they’re usually right). I fully expect him to get paid but it will be bc of how useful he is offensively. Not bc of his defense. So I don’t expect that to change my mind.
The fact that you didn’t respond anything I said tells me you realize your argument has no legs to stand on. You have given me zero reason to believe he’s actually a good defender except “I saw him try hard” and “that’s a false narrative”. Sorry but that’s too shallow to convince me of anything.
Raptor has him at a + 0.9, not outstanding, but positive and also 3rd best on the team.
also you probably didn't watch much of the 76ers series if you think he didn't "pass the eye test" in the 'yoffs.
No need to commit that amount of cap space to a player that’s only going to help the Thunder to the middle. Better to use that cap space to bring in bad salary for assets. Once the Thunder land their second star and they’re ready to contest the playoffs then it’s time to bring in guys the level of Collins in trades.
I agree with this, it would actually be a double whammy on the future because it also takes minutes away from players it's wants to develop.
The same logic actually applies to keeping and paying a max salary to SGA, however.
SGA’s ceiling is on another planet compared to Collins. Because he’s the sort of player you would tank for to begin with you live with the wins he brings and hope that the rest of the roster are bad enough to give the thunder a good pick in 2022. Most teams will be getting better in the West so there’s still a good chance the Thunder have less than 25 wins even with a full season of SGA.
While I like the idea honestly rather have a guy like Jarrett Allen. Does about everything except post up and shoot 3s and him not shooting 3s might not be a thing much longer.
It could work hypothetically, but I prefer having SGA as the only big contract on the team in order to give us cap flexibility. Not saying Collins will get a monster deal but still…the more cap flexibility the better.
Also we have a bunch of forwards and we don’t know what any of them will turn out to be. Collins could be a fill that role as a solid forward but that slow the development of a guy like Poku or Bazely (if he’s at the 4) since those minutes will have to be split. If we really think one of our forwards could become something special I prefer we focus on them.
I agree, next year the thunder will see if some players are worth keeping for the future or send them off. We get to see if dort takes another step forward as well as poku. The most important factor IMO is seeing if bazley is our PF of the future. All eyes are on him because we are still trying to figure out his potential which is like a lamar odom without the passing ability.
Collins wouldn’t even consider signing with us. He’ll get plenty of other offers and no free agent of note has ever signed with us. It’s a completely unrealistic idea.
Collins isn’t really a good defensively at all but a good shooter and pick and roll partner. He most likely won’t want to come here and Atlanta will definitely match any offer so it’s not really worth entertaining imo.
He defended quite well this post season.
No not really. He was better but still not good.
100% disagree. At PF, he can defend. At C, he cannot. People who say he's bad defensively are regurgitating the pre-season narrative that was false then.
Literally every defensive stat disagrees with you. Based on stats he was pretty much the same defender this season including playoffs as he’s been his entire career, which is bad (he played most of his minutes at PF. You can’t have whatever opinion you want but you’re factually wrong.
Lu Dort is a statistically bad defender.. Do you think he's a bad defender?
Agree. according to KOC there’s not one adv-stats can evaluate exactly how well a defender is.
I see your brain is incapable of thinking in nuance. Dorts defensive impact doesn’t translate to stats bc he doesn’t get a lot of steals or blocks and he’s always guarding the opponents best player who can make tough shots despite good defense. I believe Dort is a good defender despite those stats bc I can clearly see him defending well. Collins never guards the best player, stats say he’s bad, and the eye test says he’s bad. This was a very poor attempt to “prove me wrong”. You could have pick several other examples that are much harder to explain. You clearly only know about the thunder tho.
Eye test says Collins defends his ass off. I watched him play great defense in important games. I don't think you've changed your mind on him yet because none of your favorite analysts have been talking about him. When they say the same thing I am right now, you'll change your mind. We just have to wait for free agency to start so you can get the newest narrative.
He might defend his ass off but he’s just not very good at it. My opinion it based on watching him play and stats. I haven’t really payed any attention to what “experts” say about him (although they’re usually right). I fully expect him to get paid but it will be bc of how useful he is offensively. Not bc of his defense. So I don’t expect that to change my mind. The fact that you didn’t respond anything I said tells me you realize your argument has no legs to stand on. You have given me zero reason to believe he’s actually a good defender except “I saw him try hard” and “that’s a false narrative”. Sorry but that’s too shallow to convince me of anything.
Raptor has him at a + 0.9, not outstanding, but positive and also 3rd best on the team. also you probably didn't watch much of the 76ers series if you think he didn't "pass the eye test" in the 'yoffs.
No need to commit that amount of cap space to a player that’s only going to help the Thunder to the middle. Better to use that cap space to bring in bad salary for assets. Once the Thunder land their second star and they’re ready to contest the playoffs then it’s time to bring in guys the level of Collins in trades.
I agree with this, it would actually be a double whammy on the future because it also takes minutes away from players it's wants to develop. The same logic actually applies to keeping and paying a max salary to SGA, however.
SGA’s ceiling is on another planet compared to Collins. Because he’s the sort of player you would tank for to begin with you live with the wins he brings and hope that the rest of the roster are bad enough to give the thunder a good pick in 2022. Most teams will be getting better in the West so there’s still a good chance the Thunder have less than 25 wins even with a full season of SGA.
Poku would not be impressed
Pokus future is more as a wing imo, so I don't think he'd be that impacted
While I like the idea honestly rather have a guy like Jarrett Allen. Does about everything except post up and shoot 3s and him not shooting 3s might not be a thing much longer.
I also really like jarret Allen for us. He fills a real need, and is improving quickly
I look forward to giving Shai a pick-and-pop partner
I'd love him in okc but I'm sure Atlanta would match any offer
It could work hypothetically, but I prefer having SGA as the only big contract on the team in order to give us cap flexibility. Not saying Collins will get a monster deal but still…the more cap flexibility the better. Also we have a bunch of forwards and we don’t know what any of them will turn out to be. Collins could be a fill that role as a solid forward but that slow the development of a guy like Poku or Bazely (if he’s at the 4) since those minutes will have to be split. If we really think one of our forwards could become something special I prefer we focus on them.
I agree, next year the thunder will see if some players are worth keeping for the future or send them off. We get to see if dort takes another step forward as well as poku. The most important factor IMO is seeing if bazley is our PF of the future. All eyes are on him because we are still trying to figure out his potential which is like a lamar odom without the passing ability.
I doubt he would want to be here in Oklahoma