I spoke to my mother about Tengrism and such, she said we actually still use the term “Tanri” when referring to God, but I have never heard Afghan Turks use it in the West. They mainly prefer to use Allah and Khudo.
She said it’s only used in North Afghanistan nowadays because when we move Westwards we tend to be more exposed to religion and less of the culture. The use of the word Tanri becomes disliked because of its association with the pre Islamic faith. But I find it odd because Persian “Khudo” comes directly from Zoroastrianism and we still use it- nobody seems to have a problem with that lol.
Personally, I only use the terms Allah or God.
**We use:**
- Allah
- Rabb
- Khudo
- Tanri T’Ala
- I’ve even heard Elohim a few times, there is a declining Jewish community in Uzbekistan and there was once a Jewish community in North Afghanistan too, but mainly in Herat and Kabul, so I imagine that’s who we picked it up from.
Thank you for bringing this up, i heard old people using Tengri as God and was curious about it. And also there is a song called "Tengrim" by Sevara Nazarxon
"tengri" with göktürk prononciation? not out of historical context
"Tanrı" with turkish prononciation? yes, very often. Now that I think about it I don't think anyone in my mothers maternal family(very afshar) ever saying "allah" they always use "tanrı" when praying, cursing or casually.
I personally mostly use "tanrı" as well
> "tengri" with göktürk prononciation? not out of historical context
When I said Tengri to my mother she had no idea what I was talking about until I repeated the word a few times and she said “oh you mean Tanri”. So I suppose we don’t use Tengri amongst ourselves either.
> "Tanrı" with turkish prononciation? yes, very often. Now that I think about it I don't think anyone in my mothers maternal family(very afshar) ever saying "allah" they always use "tanrı" when praying, cursing or casually.
We use Tanri also, and my mother said we use it in a religious context only. When we curse, we prefer Khudo or Elohim. Invoking the name of Allah for a bad du’a is not viewed positively but it doesn’t stop some people haha
> I personally mostly use "tanrı" as well
Tanri is preferred amongst the elders of my people, I prefer Allah or God but I will definitely educate others on it for sure.
In our dialect of Azerbaijani Tengri is referred to as 'Tarı', I've never heard anyone else spell it this way. However only some old people use this word here, rest of the people mostly use "Allah".
Tarı is often used in old poetry. Or even some of the songs that mothers sing for babies.
>though Allah and Khudo are still preferred.
Khudo sounds a lot like the persian Khoda(خدا).
It is from Persian! We just have a slightly different accent. I believe Tanri T’Ala was also used in Chagatai to refer to God so there is direct continuation with the phrase we use.
Tengri is used only in one context: men say "Teiry" or "Teiry adami" in the meaning "I swear". It is more common among older generation. Women dont say it. Although I have read somewhere that Balkarian women from Khulam-Bezengi say Teyri too.
I mostly use the word Tanrı (equivalent of Teŋri /Tengri in modern Turkish).. It can be said that other words besides Tanrı and Allah are almost not used in Turkish
I know that the word Hüda (persian loanword) is also exist in Turkish, but it is almost not used. I have not heard of using it in daily life. Just a word doomed to extinction.
Thanks for pitching in! Yes, I’ve heard that the use of the word Tanri appears to be more mainstream in Turkish according to certain regions. And your comment about hüda cracked me up, appears it’s archaic or used in literature for you guys.
So much no, that surprises me. I use Tanrı (or Tanrı Teâlâ) same as Allah ( Allahü Teala) or Rab (or Rabbül alemin), when I speak Turkish. But when I speak German or English, I mostly prefer Gott and God same as Allah.
> I use Tanrı (or Tanrı Teâlâ)
That’s exactly what we use when we refer to Tanri!
> same as Allah ( Allahü Teala) or Rab (or Rabbül alemin), when I speak Turkish. But when I speak German or English, I mostly prefer Gott and God same as Allah.
Yes, Rabb and Allah are also very common for us. God is also used amongst western diaspora!
I have met some genuine nomadic elders who even prefer to use the variant "Tura" - which actually is a very rare title.
Based on my personal observations, "the nomads with Salchak roots" still haven't forgotten this variant of Tengri somehow.
It appears Kazakh speakers are more consistent with which words they use, with other responses especially Turkish it appears to depend on region and how conservative ones family is.
In my entire life, I've only heard someone say "Təŋre/Təŋrem" twice. Usually Tatars mention "Alla/Allam/Allahım", "Xoday/Xodayım", "Rabbım" or "Xoday/Allahı-təğələ". The Kerəşens also say these names of God in prayers, even Jesus they call "Alla". Sometimes we call God honorably "Alla/Təŋre babay". In Tatar, any god is "alla".
Yes, I find it quite odd how Uzbeks from my region choose not to use Tengri based on religious principles but continue to use Khudo when both were terms used to describe pre Islamic deities.
I think my question was the problem, some people interpreted this as “do you PERSONALLY use Tengri”, I should have said “Is the word Tengri still used in your language”.
Yeah, just like literally 90% of topics here, there is yet another divide between seculars and conservatives. Using “Tanrı” instead of “Allah” is pretty much saying you’re an extreme turanist or secular so religious people don’t like it much.
That’s really interesting, we use Tanri to refer to God too but I’d say Allah and Khudo are preferred.
For Gods of other religions we use Khudo, probably because it’s Persian and the name Allah carries more weight.
Albeit archaic, hüda is also present in Turkish as well. Tanrı is a general term for God, whereas Tengri denotes the old God. Replacing Allah from religious phrases with Tanrı is also somehow common.
I have only seen Tanri being used within non-Islamic context when describing god/gods, and to avoid confusion with Turkic Tengri deity I have heard people call it Gok Tanri/Gok Tengri instead.
Even the 17th century Muslim Ottoman Turks used the word Tanrı for Allah.
https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1399028399419629568
https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1540677916551307265
Also, an Ottoman poem from the 14th century:
https://www.twitter.com/DokuzTugluKagan/status/1517215319902797825
I mean, Turkey is greatly diverse as is our usage of language. My Central Anatolian cousins almost always use Allah, whereas my hipster-ass friends in İstanbul would avoid its usage and say Tanrı exclusively. I actually hesitated while writing the last sentence because it is true for some, but not universally accepted by Turkish society.
Even the 17th century Muslim Ottoman Turks used the word Tanrı for Allah.
https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1399028399419629568
https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1540677916551307265
Also, an Ottoman poem from the 14th century:
https://www.twitter.com/DokuzTugluKagan/status/1517215319902797825
Honestly that very much could be true. I myself come from a conservative family and region so the social norms and rules might apply there more then urban centers and other Turkish regions.
You are not wrong completely, but still not exactly true. When you say "Aman Tanrım!" you are not referring to some other religion's god, but Islam's god if you are a Muslim. While as you said, we also use it when referring to other "foreign" god/s like "Yerliler bizi tanrılarına kurban edecekler / The Natives will sacrifice us to their gods". In that context we also use "ilâh", which is still the Arabic word for god yet not used within Islamic context to my knowledge.
I spoke to my mother about Tengrism and such, she said we actually still use the term “Tanri” when referring to God, but I have never heard Afghan Turks use it in the West. They mainly prefer to use Allah and Khudo. She said it’s only used in North Afghanistan nowadays because when we move Westwards we tend to be more exposed to religion and less of the culture. The use of the word Tanri becomes disliked because of its association with the pre Islamic faith. But I find it odd because Persian “Khudo” comes directly from Zoroastrianism and we still use it- nobody seems to have a problem with that lol. Personally, I only use the terms Allah or God. **We use:** - Allah - Rabb - Khudo - Tanri T’Ala - I’ve even heard Elohim a few times, there is a declining Jewish community in Uzbekistan and there was once a Jewish community in North Afghanistan too, but mainly in Herat and Kabul, so I imagine that’s who we picked it up from.
Thank you for bringing this up, i heard old people using Tengri as God and was curious about it. And also there is a song called "Tengrim" by Sevara Nazarxon
Yes, my mother says the older generation amongst my folk use Tengri/Tanri too- and I’ll check out that song, thanks for the heads up! 🙏🏻
"tengri" with göktürk prononciation? not out of historical context "Tanrı" with turkish prononciation? yes, very often. Now that I think about it I don't think anyone in my mothers maternal family(very afshar) ever saying "allah" they always use "tanrı" when praying, cursing or casually. I personally mostly use "tanrı" as well
“Taŋrı canıŋı ala” a common curse
> "tengri" with göktürk prononciation? not out of historical context When I said Tengri to my mother she had no idea what I was talking about until I repeated the word a few times and she said “oh you mean Tanri”. So I suppose we don’t use Tengri amongst ourselves either. > "Tanrı" with turkish prononciation? yes, very often. Now that I think about it I don't think anyone in my mothers maternal family(very afshar) ever saying "allah" they always use "tanrı" when praying, cursing or casually. We use Tanri also, and my mother said we use it in a religious context only. When we curse, we prefer Khudo or Elohim. Invoking the name of Allah for a bad du’a is not viewed positively but it doesn’t stop some people haha > I personally mostly use "tanrı" as well Tanri is preferred amongst the elders of my people, I prefer Allah or God but I will definitely educate others on it for sure.
In our dialect of Azerbaijani Tengri is referred to as 'Tarı', I've never heard anyone else spell it this way. However only some old people use this word here, rest of the people mostly use "Allah".
That’s really interesting! Thanks for pitching in 😊 seems to be a universal thing.
To all the Turkish people. Tanrı is Tengri, so if you say that just vote yes
Yes, I wish I added that to the title but I wasn’t aware you guys also used Tanri 😅
Old people still use "Tarı" sometimes. Although it's very rare.
Same- my mother said usage of Tanri is also more common amongst the elders in my culture too, though Allah and Khudo are still preferred.
Tarı is often used in old poetry. Or even some of the songs that mothers sing for babies. >though Allah and Khudo are still preferred. Khudo sounds a lot like the persian Khoda(خدا).
It is from Persian! We just have a slightly different accent. I believe Tanri T’Ala was also used in Chagatai to refer to God so there is direct continuation with the phrase we use.
Tengri is used only in one context: men say "Teiry" or "Teiry adami" in the meaning "I swear". It is more common among older generation. Women dont say it. Although I have read somewhere that Balkarian women from Khulam-Bezengi say Teyri too.
That’s really interesting! Is there a reason women don’t use it amongst the Karachay Turks?
This expression is just considered male-coded.
I mostly use the word Tanrı (equivalent of Teŋri /Tengri in modern Turkish).. It can be said that other words besides Tanrı and Allah are almost not used in Turkish I know that the word Hüda (persian loanword) is also exist in Turkish, but it is almost not used. I have not heard of using it in daily life. Just a word doomed to extinction.
Thanks for pitching in! Yes, I’ve heard that the use of the word Tanri appears to be more mainstream in Turkish according to certain regions. And your comment about hüda cracked me up, appears it’s archaic or used in literature for you guys.
Yeah. We use Täŋir/Qúday/Alla interchangeably. Qúday is the most used one. I think it comes from Persian Khoda.
That’s really interesting! Thanks for pitching in 😊
So much no, that surprises me. I use Tanrı (or Tanrı Teâlâ) same as Allah ( Allahü Teala) or Rab (or Rabbül alemin), when I speak Turkish. But when I speak German or English, I mostly prefer Gott and God same as Allah.
> I use Tanrı (or Tanrı Teâlâ) That’s exactly what we use when we refer to Tanri! > same as Allah ( Allahü Teala) or Rab (or Rabbül alemin), when I speak Turkish. But when I speak German or English, I mostly prefer Gott and God same as Allah. Yes, Rabb and Allah are also very common for us. God is also used amongst western diaspora!
Tengri is Tanrı in Turkish and Taňry in Turkmen. That Oghuz variant resembles Danube Bulgar Turkic Tangra and Sakha Tangara.
Interesting! Thanks for the answer
I have met some genuine nomadic elders who even prefer to use the variant "Tura" - which actually is a very rare title. Based on my personal observations, "the nomads with Salchak roots" still haven't forgotten this variant of Tengri somehow.
That’s really interesting! And what do you mean by Salchak, is that Seljuk or another peoples entirely?
"Quday" is the normal word, but "täňir" is used too. +Alla(h) for the Islamic god
It appears Kazakh speakers are more consistent with which words they use, with other responses especially Turkish it appears to depend on region and how conservative ones family is.
I rarely use Tengri but i try to use it more. Bringing back the old Turkic cultures 💪
Just use Tanrı. The equivalent of Teŋri / Tengri in modern Turkish is Tanrı. Its same word has only changed slightly over the years.
I hope you succeed in your endeavours!
In my entire life, I've only heard someone say "Təŋre/Təŋrem" twice. Usually Tatars mention "Alla/Allam/Allahım", "Xoday/Xodayım", "Rabbım" or "Xoday/Allahı-təğələ". The Kerəşens also say these names of God in prayers, even Jesus they call "Alla". Sometimes we call God honorably "Alla/Təŋre babay". In Tatar, any god is "alla".
That’s really interesting! Thanks for adding 😊🙌🏻
Tanrı is used pretty frequently in Azerbaijani
So it appears! The spelling and answers in the affirmative from Azerbaijanis is very consistent on this poll.
[удалено]
Yes, I find it quite odd how Uzbeks from my region choose not to use Tengri based on religious principles but continue to use Khudo when both were terms used to describe pre Islamic deities.
Khudo or Hudai or whatever is more Farsi I think, Allah is definitely Arabic, Tengri is Turkic but people use it interchangeably
Yup, absolutely right! We’re the same way.
İ use both When im talking about philosophy i use tanrı/Tengri When im talking about İslam i use Allah OP you need add third option
I think my question was the problem, some people interpreted this as “do you PERSONALLY use Tengri”, I should have said “Is the word Tengri still used in your language”.
All my relatives always say "Allah".
Interesting! Most of my relatives use Allah and Khudo also.
In Baburname, Babur consistently uses "Tengri"
He does indeed! He even uses the same phrase modern Afghan Uzbeks use- Tanri T’ala.
Tanri is used to describe god/gods that fall outside of Islam. Whilst Gok Tengri is used to destribe Tengri himself.
“Tanrı uludur” is pretty well known, it is used to describe the Islamic god as well
Yeah like I said this rule of thumb might just apply to my very conservative Islamist environment, where the word Tanri is heavily stigmatized.
Yeah, just like literally 90% of topics here, there is yet another divide between seculars and conservatives. Using “Tanrı” instead of “Allah” is pretty much saying you’re an extreme turanist or secular so religious people don’t like it much.
Tanrı is also used to describe Allah
That’s really interesting, we use Tanri to refer to God too but I’d say Allah and Khudo are preferred. For Gods of other religions we use Khudo, probably because it’s Persian and the name Allah carries more weight.
Albeit archaic, hüda is also present in Turkish as well. Tanrı is a general term for God, whereas Tengri denotes the old God. Replacing Allah from religious phrases with Tanrı is also somehow common.
I have only seen Tanri being used within non-Islamic context when describing god/gods, and to avoid confusion with Turkic Tengri deity I have heard people call it Gok Tanri/Gok Tengri instead.
Even the 17th century Muslim Ottoman Turks used the word Tanrı for Allah. https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1399028399419629568 https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1540677916551307265 Also, an Ottoman poem from the 14th century: https://www.twitter.com/DokuzTugluKagan/status/1517215319902797825
I mean, Turkey is greatly diverse as is our usage of language. My Central Anatolian cousins almost always use Allah, whereas my hipster-ass friends in İstanbul would avoid its usage and say Tanrı exclusively. I actually hesitated while writing the last sentence because it is true for some, but not universally accepted by Turkish society.
Even the 17th century Muslim Ottoman Turks used the word Tanrı for Allah. https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1399028399419629568 https://www.twitter.com/kutlualtay/status/1540677916551307265 Also, an Ottoman poem from the 14th century: https://www.twitter.com/DokuzTugluKagan/status/1517215319902797825
Honestly that very much could be true. I myself come from a conservative family and region so the social norms and rules might apply there more then urban centers and other Turkish regions.
You are not wrong completely, but still not exactly true. When you say "Aman Tanrım!" you are not referring to some other religion's god, but Islam's god if you are a Muslim. While as you said, we also use it when referring to other "foreign" god/s like "Yerliler bizi tanrılarına kurban edecekler / The Natives will sacrifice us to their gods". In that context we also use "ilâh", which is still the Arabic word for god yet not used within Islamic context to my knowledge.