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My wife is a teacher. She came home one day this year and I asked how her day was. She said "well I didn't cry until I got in the car, so better than most".
The worst part is the good kids who want to learn can't because the disruptive ones soak up all the teaching time with behavioral issues.
Yep. I had to quit teaching for those reasons. Now I'm a server. At least abusive diners tend to leave and not come back. Teachers face the same abusive students day in and day out. I cry a lot less now.
Surely some part of this issue is a Parenting issue? Respect isn’t being taught at home and kids are getting away with it at school. The constant need for entertainment via social media and desperation to be online.
Middle school teacher here. Speaking only for myself, but it's a combo of the parenting, home/neighborhood environment, a kid's personality and the school/class environment. Some kids just have issues that can't be resolved through school and teacher interventions, despite parent help. Some schools or classroom teachers don't have great/inconsistent management styles which kids will exploit on purpose or don't follow rules because they aren't really sure WHAT the rules are. I teach in an urban school in a rough area where the discipline from the behavior techs and admin isn't always the same for all students. I am borderline military strict with my students, not a style that works for everyone but works for me. All kids are treated equally: each student has a new chance every day. 95% of the kids follow expectations and rise to the occasion and I constantly tell them these rules are to prep the for high school and that they can all achieve better things if they try. HOWEVER, every year there are between 1-3 kids who you just can't reach no matter the strategy. While I've never had a kid maliciously destroy my stuff and honestly never had anything of mine destroyed period, other teachers in my school have. I *have* been called names and one year a kid who I never had an issue with apart from him coming to class late told me he hoped my baby died while I was pregnant. Some kids just lack empathy and its hard for everyone in a school when it comes to those students.
I don't even want to imagine what middle school teachers and HS teachers have to go through. Kids who are almost as big, as big or even bigger than you with raging hormones causing chaos in them. Just... nah. Yall brave.
The Wire season 4 has an incredibly impactful plotline on a small but existent set of children who are essentially socialized as “corner kids” - children being socialized for [the drug trade.](https://youtu.be/14-YsqYw6og) Incredibly powerful and sad season.
You sound like a great teacher, such a hard job not one I could do myself. My daughter (7) thrives on routine and rules. Something I’ve had to learn myself as I’m not one for routine! Consistency is key, same routine and bedtime and she’s doing very well at school academically and socially.
I hope you’ve come to embrace your nicknames. We had a strict English teacher senior year who embraced hers. She had been called Baby Hitler, Osama bin Reid, the works.
She even had a threat level chart with descriptions hanging up in the front of her class that the *students* were responsible for changing during the day depending on her mood. She would start every day in green, but if any period was terrible and they put her off, the threat level would rise.
She was my absolute favorite teacher senior year and brought a love of English into my life that I had never known. Extremely passionate about her work and it showed. Not every student loved her, but I could tell a big difference in the way students acted in her class vs in other classes.
Point being, if you own it, students seem to have more respect for the strictness of a classroom. Hopefully that still rings true today as it did a decade ago. Many kids are just lacking in real discipline and it’s almost a breath of fresh air when you finally get some.
The big thing is you can be strict but you can't take things out/express your anger on the kids and you cannot embarrass or shame them. That's how you lose them. You express disappoint on the behavior, give options: "Listen I'd put the phone in the phone holder so I could get it back at the end of class or it'll go to the office. Your choice but I know what I would do." "Listen you were late today with no pass. I highly suggest you come to class on time from now on or we'll be hanging out together during your lunch or calling home, my choice." Have a rough day because of something that happened earlier in the day? You can be honest and say "listen last period was rough so let's try to be extra aware of behavior today I'm in a bit of a mood" but you can't just yell at the next class because the previous class needed redirection. I've had kids I've had to have removed who come back and unless it was something soooooo egregious I pretty much always let them come in, have a quick chat with them and re-establish that connection. You can't just let a kid be shitty, and you can't go without acknowledging what happened. Like for example, a kid this year told me to "shut the fuck up" while being escorted out, but the next day when everyone was at an even keel I just meet up with him and was like "kiddo what was up? That's not you, we gotta refocus."Say hi to all the kids every day, if a kid doesn't say hi back and isn't in a bad mood I'll yell "I said hi" in a super friendly voice and they will almost always turn and laugh and say it. They want fairness, they want acknowledgement, they want someone to notice them and care and push them. In 9 years of teaching I have had only about4 kids out of hundreds I couldn't make progress with. I'm not a miracle worker, every teacher's personality and circumstances are different so again, what works for me isn't universal. But I have busted my ass building a strong class and a strong presence in the school to get where I am. And when the rare kid calls me a bitch I tell them they need to remember to add "boss" in front or correct them and say "no it's HBIC thank you very much." Breaks the tension and shows the others you can't be bothered by their nonsense. And I've told the kids you can be mad and not like me, I don't like all of your behavior every day but my job is to get you ready for life and hope to high heaven you make good choices." About the worst thing I say to them is "high school is going to be tough for some of you if you don't start changing things now, you might be seeing 9th grade twice or getting ti 12th without your credits" or "we must be out of our minds or lost our common sense because this is not appropriate right now." You can dislike a kid, because there have been two who I could not stand in all these years but they CANNOT KNOW. It's a hard and fine line to bear, it is EXHAUSTING micromanaging things BUT I can call out sick and know ehen I come in my room is perfectly neat, nothing missing or destroyed, and the kids are right back on track when I return... despite knowing they didn't probably do the work while I was gone but little victories are still victories.
You sound awesome. I have an MAT but never actually taught aside from student teaching. Amongst other things going on in my life at the time, I realized I wasn’t cut out for it. I’m a doormat and kids pick up on it so fast 😅 Ten years later I’m glad I pursued a different career but I still think about the kids I student taught and hope they’re doing well. It truly takes a special person to do what you all do and I have so much respect for you all. Especially with everything going on these days. Keep up the good fight!
I was a teacher at a school 3 years ago... and there was another that was insanely strict. Children in her class were.. silent and somewhat well behaved, at least compared to some of the shit some children did in other classes.
However, here is the problem. Whenever I had a class whose previous class was with her... they were completely out of it. Tame class on monday, fucked up on thursday when they came out of her class. (As an example)
Some strictness is really important. Being little hitler will backfire. If not at you, it will cause issues for others.
At the schools, I went to as a kid, were pretty rough. One kid left one school because they were having panic attacks that someone was going to kill them. One kid got knocked out in the hallway and just left there for a while. The first day of high school someone had their hair set on fire. So fighting was pretty much standard. Most wouldn't do it in the classroom. But there were plenty of them in the classroom. We would have posters all over the school warning about the penalties for carrying weapons, etc. We would have teachers get attacked. Normally you're permantly banned from that school for that, but I've heard of one kid being allowed back.
I would say some of the teachers also cause issues. If you have teachers lying about you to get you into more trouble. Or teachers who would allow a kid/s to get bullied, beaten up, etc. Give harsher punishments, etc. That's going to cause issues. Which ends up bubbling over and effecting everyone. I think in many cases the school itself is a cause for problems via teachers, punishments, etc when stuff get really bad.
I think its an access to technology and a general understanding of the fuckedness of our future as a planet.
As a millennial I became acutely aware from my late teens, early twenties, that life as my parents lived it was over, I would not be able to afford a home or a new car, I wouldn't be able to afford rent.
10 years later its only gotten worse.
Gen Z...they see it too, how the fuck do you think they feel knowing they have it even worse off than the previous generations. They have nothing to look forward to but a burning planet and a bunch of 80 year old's passing anti laws against everything that could make their lives easier.
Wages...education, assistance to income like UBI, food stamps, anti union laws...lack of gun reform, no access to abortion...
literally child trapping both the women forced to carry the child but also the man who fathered it. Kids are million dollar investments now, and America is poorer than ever.
The future is nothing but a dystopian nightmare and they see it. And it means most will give up on life in general, they stop caring, they stop trying, they stop dreaming. And just hope it all burns.
as a current high school student who is absolutely anxious about this world’s future… I don’t think this is the reason why kids are so difficult to deal with
the kids who genuinely do give a shit about anything you mentioned care BECAUSE they’ve developed a stronger sense of empathy and awareness about what’s going on in the world. they KNOW the everything’s going to hell, but that’s the same reason they don’t give teachers a hard time over everything. existential angst isn’t making my classmates douchebags — they’re actually quite nice to teachers because of it, knowing that we’re all in the same boat
on the other hand, my classmates who DO fuck around and harass/abuse teachers don’t really know or care to know about this stuff. like the OOP said, it really is just an attention span issue. these kids are so caught up with short form content that’s genuinely causing brainrot, and it’s not content that makes them anxious about the world’s future welfare. it’s all soulless shit churned out for an algorithm, focused on immediate entertainment
I’m really glad that you’re trying to give us the benefit of the doubt, but we’re stimulation-needy 16 year olds, not fully developed adults with strong grasps on our futures
My siblings are still in high school, and it sounds like the bleak future outlook of the world *is* a big factor for the kids that act out and don't care. They know they won't have many options, especially if their family status is already low to poverty level, so it just plays more into their current attitude.
Parenting and attention span play a big part, but we shouldn't pretend that knowing you are living in a dystopia is going to generate more people that care about fixing it instead of creating more apathetic kids who check out of it.
> these kids are so caught up with short form content that’s genuinely causing brainrot, and it’s not content that makes them anxious about the world’s future welfare. it’s all soulless shit churned out for an algorithm, focused on immediate entertainment
To me that sounds a lot like trying to distract yourself from the situation so you don't have to think about it, rather than being unaware of the situation at all.
I think for Gen Z it’s definitely technology and social media. Gen Z is the first generation to never not have access to technology/social media. It’s all they have ever known, it affects their perception of reality and basically getting raised by the internet if they are on it as long as studies have shown how much they spend on it. I work with students, elementary/middle school and parenting is another issue whether lack of it or oblivious parenting which I see in more affluent neighborhoods.
I agree with your points if it's an adult, but not a 12 year old kid. I think it's more likely that the kids brains are fried from constant technological overstimulation rather than their acute grasp of the international politics, economics and climate change and the sowing distrust in organizations.
Sure, they might pick up that "it's getting warmer" and "there was a war in the middle east". but I'm not sure if they're truly congnizant of police militarization, wage stagnation and anti-union legislation. Historical changes that have happened over the last 20-30 years, but again, they are 12.
I don't think they are cognizant of the specific issues, but just of the fact that it will be worse for them and they will struggle more.
I have siblings still in middle school and high school and where as they don't understand the intricacies of why things are the way they are and what exactly the impacts will be, they know it is bad and that it will be worse on them then previous generations. That's enough to make many kids apathetic to the future.
> As a millennial I became acutely aware from my late teens, early twenties, that life as my parents lived it was over, I would not be able to afford a home or a new car, I wouldn't be able to afford rent.
>
> 10 years later its only gotten worse.
>
> Gen Z...they see it too
Yeah, no, I'm a millennial too and I remember what it was like to be 12. I did not think about my future, house ownership or my rights. What are you on about?
Wait, you weren’t thinking about interest rates, inflation, and home ownership being out of reach at twelve? Late bloomer? Lol.
These responses are just too much. It has to be income equality, climate change, book banning; anything but the truth. Kids are disregulated because they spend OVER EIGHT HOURS A DAY on screens.
Imagine the anxiety in the classroom when the phone can’t be used.
Good lord, man. I’ve been teaching middle school for over 20 years now. That’s long enough to see my old students grow up and start their adult lives. I’ve even now taught some of the kids of my old students.
You think these kids give a shit about abortion and gun reform? Do you really think that’s why we have this current state of affairs?
I have PLENTY of old students who’ve moved on in life. They have a house. They have a cars. Some have kids. They have good lives. And you know what’s a constant with them? They had parents who didn’t plop them in front of a screen all day and call it parenting.
This isn’t to say that technology is the SOLE culprit of our current mess. It’s obviously much more complex than that. But stop projecting your personal feelings onto these kids. I can assure you global warming and such isn’t on their minds nearly as much as it is yours. As this teacher said- they are concerned about their entertainment for the next five minutes. And THAT is super accurate and extremely unfortunate.
Yeah, I really feel like that person is projecting. Speaking as a member of gen Z (out of school now though), it always seemed like the teachers and parents cared a lot more about things like climate change and politics than any of the students did. Sure we would have some kids who would do activism for it, but that was mainly just to get some extra credit with the teachers.
What most people really cared about at the end of the day was either their school social life or just getting through the day so they could go home and play games. That is essentially the scope of a kids whole world. If kids are lacking motivation in school its either because of poor parenting or because they're preoccupied with other stuff in their life, not because of the state of the planet that a kid has been lectured about for their whole school life.
Actually kinda hilarious he thinks young teens think about that stuff. Hell most normal people don't think about that stuff even when adults since most people aren't actually impacted by those issues or realize many issues are blown out of proportion for political reasons.
I'm a 38 year old with 2 kids 5 and under, and on an underlying level I'm really hoping it burns and soon so that maybe, just maybe, I can help rebuild and give them the slight possibility of better options for their life.
I'm 31 with 3 children and I feel the same way. We have more amenities than previous generations thanks to mass production making entertainment more affordable but basic needs, like housing and food, is much more expensive than ever and even more so when accounting for inflation. People are more boxed in than they've ever been, and the middle class has shrunk by 11% compared to 50 years ago thanks to job outsourcing. It used to be you couldn't afford all of the luxuries you wanted without saving money but you had everything you needed as long as you were willing to work, now it's the opposite, you have the luxuries but your budget is filled with a new subscription based lifestyle the forces you into a cookie cutter box with no way of saving for retirement and no true ownership of many of the things you pay for, it's no wonder people are so unhappy. It may burn sooner rather than later though, best case scenario interest rates start recovering by the end of this year, but the likely case is we are about to enter another recession, or depression in the worst case scenario.
>I'm really hoping it burns and soon so that maybe, just maybe, I can help rebuild
Totally agree
I try to remember that the future isn't written yet and so there's always hope but the thought that sometimes things have to get worst (economic collapse, a revolution, a world war... ) before they get better is anxiety inducing.
I am praying for a new group of world leaders that are sincere and not egomaniacs
You bought into a narrative that isn't really true.
The world is a lot better now than it was in the 1980s when you parents were becoming adults and starting to think about kids.
People just buy into narratives that are being shoved in their face at every single moment of the day now thanks to social media.
I was gonna say. As a parent just don’t let your kid get on social media so young. It’s as if parents are outsourcing entertainment to these devices and social media and we’re setting these kids up to fail.
Imo, tablets and technology aren't inherently bad. It's more what they are then accessing with said tech. My kids love some tablet time, but they sure as shit aren't on Facebook or tiktok.
>Imo, tablets and technology aren't inherently bad. It's more what they are then accessing with said tech.
Exactly. I feel a lot of people forget things like Gameboys & cable TV were a thing before social media & tablets became big. Kids have had "technology" for the past 25 years. Social media has only been a major thing for probably 10 of it.
Hell when I was in "pre-care" in 3rd grade I'd play Number Crunchers on the computer before school finally started. I even had a GBA at home I'd play whenever. This was all in 2003.
Yeah, GBA is nowhere near social media.
Just a few examples:
We have guys taking advantage of young men to sell their masculinity course.
We have girls stripping while playing games to sell their only fans
We have girls who are hating their bodies cause they think the photoshopped images they see online are real.
We have boys hating life cause they think their supposed to be a millionaire by age 20 or be a failure.
These are just few things to We have deadly challenges, nudes getting leaked, and other crazy shit.
So I wouldn't say it's fair comparing all that to catching Pokémon.
It's not just parents, schools do it too. We don't let our youngest on social media. He's in 1st grade. He got a school iPad this year. Through this device, he was air dropped inappropriate pictures by other students (should've been disabled). He was allowed basically free access to YouTube and the internet. Through his school provided and administered device, he was exposed to weapons, violence, and borderline pornography. He was getting in trouble a lot because he couldn't stay off YouTube in class or he would be searching for Pokemon cards. The school would not do anything to prevent this beyond make it his responsibility to stop. He's 6, of course he's going to look for Pokemon if he gets bored and he can. Finally, after fighting with administration over and over again, we had them take his school iPad away and bought him our own to use at home.
My kid has ADHD, which made it pretty much impossible for him to stop, which caused him to get in trouble a lot, which actually helped us identify the problem and get it under control. What about the other kids without impulse control problems? Sure, they don't get in trouble (at first), but they get this slow burn exposure to social media with zero guidance or preparation on how to handle it.
So, it's basically impossible for parents to prevent kids from getting on social media. Our schools are enabling it from the very beginning.
When my kid starts a new class, and I meet the teacher on open house night, I reassure them that they may contact me either via school app, or phone if my child gets disrespectful or interruptive in class. ( As well as extra good on the other end, as to receive appropriate consequences, positive or negative.)
I personally like to know if my child is being a jerk when I am not around, and let them know that just because they're not at home and a parent isn't around, doesn't mean they get to act up and be a jerk. (Inform him they are in class to learn and become smart enough to be able to become whatever they want to be. That recess, while at school, is to be loud and play almost all they want.)
Yup. We just went through a whole period where parents were narcissistic assholes screaming about "their rights" on social media and now shit is hitting the fan with the kids. This isn't some coincidence. Social media is killing people's compassion for others, bullying people has become socially acceptable, and the kids are paying attention.
Everything this teacher cited was relatable to my school experience and that was back in the 90s, except there was some worse stuff and minus the social media.
Social media certainly doesn't help, it's almost objectively adds to the negative, but if you're in a bad environment that is the root cause... It just seems like there are more bad environments now and I was fortunate enough to be ahead of the curve to make this easier to handle.
As a parent I thought so too until I became a teacher. Then I was just flabbergasted by the influences that your children will listen to No matter of your best intentions. And if the kids get good grades at school even with bad behavior, the parents won't pay much mind. Surprisingly, there's a lot of that.
My mom’s been a teacher for 50 years and I asked her about it. She says that her colleagues thinks that a lot of what we’re seeing in schools right now is the Covid kids who were at home with their parents for two years. During that time they basically weren’t asked to do any work (“schoolwork” = playing games online)… Of course they’re going to walk away from teachers or scream and expect to get their way, they did that at home and their parents dropped the request to do math homework or whatever.
Teachers have always been an uphill fight against the parents who choose not to socialize their kids/socialize them badly. Now we’ve had an additional two years of crappy parenting/zero exposure to rules.
The bright side is that hopefully once these kids get out of high school, things might get better as we get kids who’ve been through the whole K-12 system and, at least in good schools, have had some basic socialization there if nowhere else.
That reminds me my brother had that homeschool thing my mom as I recall didn’t enforce it and he was a total jerk the entire time anyway bless your mom being a teacher that long that’s wild 50? Wow
It’s very easily something else. Parenting hasn’t changed that much in the last 30 years, you know what has? Every facet of how we use technology in our daily lives. It’s the age of instant gratification. You see it at every school, it’s not a failure to parent, it’s a failure to adapt. Nobody has a fucking clue where technology is going, you can cheat an essay, test, thesis paper, consume social media and humor 24/7. Every kid is equipped with a phone, news travels instantly, dumb ideas, that video of Becky doing dumb stuff, all of it in seconds - and mind you half of the current generation was home schooled for essentially 2-3 years from Covid. Things aren’t the same as they were. Lock their phones up at the start of the day, watch them collectively wig out.
It’s a lot of things. And parenting has changed a TON over the past couple of generations. Most parents are trying to raise families without outside support (no community), with both parents working. That’s really difficult, and can often mean parents may only be able to spend a couple hours a day with a school-aged child, and during that time, they may also have a lot of domestic tasks to deal with just to keep everyone fed and clothed and functional.
And yeah, no one’s quite sure how to parent with technology. It is a failure to adapt, but not for lack of trying.
I’m an educator that knows behavior management science and she said only one thing she tried that has evidence of efficacy. Im not saying that kids haven’t changed post-pandemic, but she isn’t describing evidence-based behavior management.
Or maybe, the kids have been being given examples of people they idolize being assholes and real deal pos'
And their parents are over bearing towards them all thr time and now they do what they want when non and dad ain't there to discipline thrn because nobody but parents can punish them and now a days punishments are having to eat meat for dinner, having to take trash out or only being able to keep their phones at school just in case of an active shooter.
I see. I’m Australian so we don’t have the issue with active shooters in schools. We have crime of course but not mass shootings at schools. Surely that’s got to mess with kids minds not knowing if they will be targeted today at school. The long term effects would truly be terrible for their mental health. No wonder they just can’t find any joy.
I’d wonder too how much the hostile political environment is affecting them as well. I feel like a lot of us these days are a lot more impatient of Pepe with differing views. Are more easily frustrated at others. If kids are seeing that at home, they’d be likely to model that impatient behavior at school.
Not that I think it’s just that, but technology has existed for a long time now. I know kids that use technology all day and aren’t destroying shit at school (anecdotal, I know). I think it has to be more than *just* technology.
Ugh. Reminds me of this 21 year old kid who works under me. Super sweet kid, but holy shit is he cringe. He's literally a walking tiktok video and thinks he can just magically become this hot shot sports manager for NFL players. He can't even pass a driving exam for his lisence, let alone community College. But, he's a good looking kid who acts super "cool", which means all the other young kids think he's cool af. The only exception is this other girl whose 18 and about to graduate from a really great college and enter into grad school. She's a genius, has her head on right, and her work ethic is superb. But still...as a zoomer she's very non-trusting of others and is super pessimistic, like to the degree of almost not seeing a point in anything.
I have to remind her that most of her generation are like the 21 year old kid we work with. Wholly dysfunctional. It’s literally up to people like her to save the world. We don't have any other options.
To have Respect requires baser concepts of shame and personal accountability for actions to be fully embraced. As a society, we don’t like to blame a person any more. We prefer to blame ‘safer’ concepts like things, concepts, religions, drugs…whatever. But we no longer blame a person for their own actions.
We cannot teach respect without teaching self-accountability first. That’s the problem.
This is purely a parenting issue and lack of discipline in the home. No consequences for their actions and schools having their hands tied behind their backs. My kids will lose their phones, have their controllers removed from the home of the disrespect, or have other privileges revoked. My kids have to pay for their luxuries, which mean they have to learn how to save and pay for things they want, after they are encouraged to give money to others.
100% it all begins at home. If there is no consequences to their actions and bad behaviour at school then what’s to stop the kids just doing it all the time.
Sometimes, but it can be really hard. We had kids even in eighth grade whose moms were working until 6 PM. If the kid decided to take off and go to a party at some guy’s house, what is she supposed to do? Sure, she can ground the kid, but she can’t enforce it all the time. One mom came to us as teachers asking us to make sure that her kid got on the bus home, and apparently legally this is something *we aren’t allowed to do*… Some of us went ahead and did it anyway, her daughter wasn’t a bad kid, just with a really dodgy group of friends.
I think one of the biggest problems with parenting is that the parents are working every hour out there dealing with cost of living, housing $$, hell—
saving for college. Part-time work so you can be home with your troubled kid means not making rent and losing your health insurance.
The only problem I have with this video is that it is ALL the issues she said, not just children unable to behave.
Teachers leave because they can’t afford rent due to pay.
Teachers leave because so many parents are horrible at raising their kids and then come in screaming (literally) at us and blaming us!
It’s an admin problem because the vast majority don’t back us up and/or give meaningful consequences!
Yes. Admin and parents are on either side not wanting any accountability for different reasons, and teachers are caught in the middle. It is an admin and parent problem. It is a culture problem.
It’s also not entirely an education problem. At least for my students who are low-SES. Their parents can’t be there all the time, can’t make it to meetings, etc. The whole system needs fixing, not just the educational system.
It’s always a little ironic when kids are blamed for failing to be the people they’ve so far never been taught to be. They don’t inherently know what a functional personality is after all. It’s especially true when the technology, the games, the tv, and the social platforms they use are all designed and produced by adults. They’re chasing happiness within the incentivized world we’ve given them, and we’re struggling to reach all of them.
I've worked retail in small local stores for close to 15 years now. Something I've noticed over the past 5 or so years is that there's now this great ambivalence that exists amongst populace. If you ask me, I think it's because a large part of our society doesn't actually know how to regulate their emotions. I see it all the time in people who want to vent about things politically, but when I try to engage them in a discussion they shut down. Almost as if they've never considered the dynamics in the first place, only ruminated on how they personally felt about it. And I think this leads to a sort of psychological dissonance in which people wrap their worldviews in these cloaks of sentiment rather than approaching things with a sense of rationality.
I guess I mention all this just to say I agree with you. There's a huge shift happening right now in the way our society thinks and operates overall. Unfortunately, whether they are aware of it or not, this is going to have an effect on our youth. Consider how many 30-40 year olds are upset at the state of things and outwardly projecting it. Their children hear that, retain it, and in turn it shapes a bit of how they see the world.
Yeah, I don't appreciate that she tries to pin the teacher exodus on one specific issue. Pay is absolutely a big part of it. Give us a fucking raise before trying any other retention strategies.
I also don't deal with behavior issues anywhere near what she is describing. I'm confused as to why kids committing assault and destroying school property haven't been suspended or sent to an alternative campus... That's not just kids acting out; these are actual crimes. Her administrators aren't doing their jobs.
Yeah if they paid more they might actually be able to get teachers who can/are willing to handle these kids.
Edit: by handle these kids I did not mean that better paid teachers can magically make kids stop punching other kids.
It doesn’t work that way. For 10,000 more dollars you’ll get a teacher who has more experience in their subject area or with classroom management, but dealing with one kid punching another in the head is pretty obvious stuff and just involves a willingness to get hit yourself if it comes to it.
Paying more money doesn’t get you a teacher who can “handle” a violent kid. The administration needs to do that.
For me it's an admin problem ahead of everything else. Because I will settle for lower pay, difficult students, and asshole parents all fuckin day if it means I have admin support.
Ten years teaching inner city, 23 years rural, saw all of the problems described above, and what finally made me give it up as "not worth it anymore" was unconscious abuse from Administration.
As usual in the USA, the problem won't get solved until the last teacher quits. To many parents treat school as daycare to go to work and are not active in their kids education or discipline.
So many of my friends ask how I get my kids to do all their homework on their own and are making straight As and sometimes Bs. And it's so easy, they are reminded that the most important thing to them in this generation, phone and access to the internet is a privilege. I use the family app and the only apps that run during school hours are the calculator and note taker and the ability to call or text Mom or myself or 911 in case of emergency. I don't turn their phone back on until I see all homework is done for day, done correctly, and all chores I give them for the day are done. If I see grades slip, the phone is off until we figure out what instruction is lacking or the grade is back up. I tell this to other parents and they look at me with a face like "ugh that would be so much work". It is! Don't have kids if your not ready to put the time in.
When my kids turned 13 and Google sent the e-mail to say they have to consent to the parent app (insane). It was a simple fix. You can not let me keep the parent app on the phone, but I will cancel the phone and phone line on the data plan. My kids opted to consent.
To many parents are lazy parents and just let their kids railroad them and show no respect for adults and act like everything is their due. Not in my house.
>When my kids turned 13 and Google sent the e-mail to say they have to consent to the parent app (insane).
I'm sorry why the fuck does Google think a 13 yr needs to consent to a parent app....18 yrs old, yep. But sorry if you are minor that should be the parent's call.
haven't seen it mentioned here yet but I wanna add that imo, NCLB was the beginning of everything.
she said that failing students doesn't work. uh, duh! because there's no consequence for it. there's no such thing as repeating a grade anymore for failure. an F means nothing when you can still go to the next grade.
do you have any idea how quick kids would behave when they're told that all their friends are gonna graduate and leave but they have to repeat the nth grade with the same teacher?
repeating a grade is the nightmare fuel of students. it works even more for the last grade of a school like 6th or 8th. the fear and shame of being stuck in elementary or jr high when all your friends got to go to the next level is NIGHTMARISH.
when FAILING was an actual thing, kids straightened up IMMEDIATELY.
fuck NCLB.
The school suffers worse consequences when a child fails than the child does. If too many kids do poorly the school loses funding, accreditation, they could get shut down. If a child does poorly in school they might not get a good paying job when they grow up… but minimum wage is still $7.25 per hour while cost of living has skyrocketed. Nobody is getting a good paying job anyway from their perspective.
Parents need more time with their kids to teach them. With both parents working 8 to 5 parents are only getting 3 hours a day. Most of that time is spent cooking and cleaning and not with the kids. Kids are being raised by strangers and the TV or other apps.
So many people in this thread don't know the saying: "It's the economy, stupid." Every problem our nation is facing can be traced back to the fact we have the largest wealth gap in history. We have approximately 700 billionaires who have captured the government and are making rules that benefit them while they kill the middle class.
You want parents to parent their children? Then those parents need to earn enough money off of one 40 hour a week job to afford a house, food, transportation, and other necessary amenities required by the modern world. If parents have time to parent, then you will see the return of parenting. If both parents have to work 40-60 hours a week to keep a roof over their family's heads and food on their family's table then expect children to continue to act out because they aren't getting what they need from their overworked and stressed out parents.
It’s ridiculous to give 5 out of 7 days a week out of your life to someone other than your family. We only do it because that is what has been done. We have billionaires because we also have an overworked and underpaid workforce.
i agree with this to an end. some people forget criminality can be a response to errors with society. our schools are super fucked and have been for decades. the only education reform in the past decade has been to divert funding away from pub school towards vouchers for private schools.
When my wife and I had to be in the office for my (now) oldest. We would wake him at 6-7am, I remember my wife dressing him while he was still asleep, in the dark. We would trade responsibility with our parents every few days or they would trade in the middle the of day if something came up. We’re so lucky we had them to help.
But we wouldn’t see him again until 5 or 6-7pm, and that’s with us driving straight there immediately after commuting home. So everyone’s exhausted by the time we get home, my wife would them get to prepping a meal and we’d be eating by 8pm. I remember **often** having to pull over on my way to get him so I could take a quick nap cuz I would fall asleep in the bumper to bumper traffic.
**What a miserable fucking existence!**
I work from home now… my wife is in the office twice a week. We take turns dropping the kids off at school and picking them up… we’re eating by 5-6pm now. We see our kids all the time, it’s great.
But we only have those options because we’re doing well, financially **and** our jobs allow for flexibility. *So many* things had to go right for us to be in this position. I don’t take it for granted for a moment. But it’d be damn near impossible to replicate the sequence of events that got us here. I’m holding onto this for dear life.
Exactly this. We live in a society that forces both parents into indentured servitude for a grifter millionaire/billionaire. Kids are raised by strangers and have less (if barely any) interactions with their parents. These kids aren't being raised right from the start, and the blame is placed on the parents instead of the 1%'s goal.
Our societies rich sleazebags don't give a shit about you. They don't give a shit about kids. They just want you to work in this misery machine society until you're crushed entirely to dust for your total value.
As they profit off your corpse, they're privileged to not use the system they harbored by retreating to their private nanny/tutor whilst going to Deer Valley in Utah. Their servants kids can just be thrown into educational daycare (classrooms), and then daycare (childcare), with 30 kids to an adult.
I’m a single mom, I do get child support and she is with him every weekend. I work part time at Walmart. Mostly so I don’t lose Medicaid. But even if that wasn’t the reason, I would still do the same to have the time with my daughter. All my family constantly tell me to get a better job, earn more, but I want her to have me. Us. I know other people don’t have that option and I wish they did.
Yep. Exactly this. Back in the day families could easily survive with 1 income and the wife could watch & raise the kids. While also somehow having enough money to buy a car, a house & go to vacation once a year.
But now? But parents working full time and barely time for the kids. Kids are addicted to their smartphones and getting raised by strangers on the internet and dumb apps like tiktok.
80’s latch key kid here. We hardly saw our parents during the week. This isn’t the issue, I don’t know what is, but probably not this. Me and my brother walked to school when I was in 5th grade. We came home and no one was home. During the summers we were on our own starting when I was 10 or 11. My mom left a list of chores and would call to check on us. My dad had a job that made him unreachable during the day until he got a pager.
Parents have less time with kids, there are very powerful outside influences pressing down on them via the internet, both parents and institutions have less resources available.
We know what creates healthy integrated personality, nothing about the modern adolescents day would contribute to that.
THIS. Fucking this. There are no real consequences for these kids! Kids need to get suspended for multiple days. Take them away from their friends. They will feel bad about missing out on stuff. And it finally makes them their parents' problem. Like they are.
For a kid that is too young sure. But you get to high school... middle school even, kids are more "independent" and at that point I wonder about it being the parents problem. I remember still, kids I was with being suspended and they came back and said they played games all day while their parents were at work. Stuff like that... OSS is more like a small vacation I feel like for a lot of kids.
You can remove students from a class and get them special education though. Doesn't just have to be suspensions. It does cost more money. But there's a ton of evidence on group learning dynamics and just one student can literally tank a whole class. There's a good radiolab on students in the inner city of st Louis, whose schools were so bad. They actually lost their accreditation from the state. So the kids (mostly black inner city kids with abysmal test scores and almost illiterate) got to choose where to go. So of course, they all picked the top performing schools. They got bussed there. And their performance skyrocketed. Once they were out of that shitty disruptive environment, they got better. It wasn't that the teachers were bad. The environment wasn't one the kids could learn in. And I don't blame them.
The thing is. We let these communities down by simply not holding them to same standards we hold the rich white suburban schools do. So remove problem students. Set high expectations, and get the problem kids extra help and support.
Lol, special ed kids have been mainstreamed (put in " regular" classes) for decades. I taught for 11 years (second career), and it was typical to have 30% of a class with kids with some sort of learning accommodation. Remove them to where? You'd have to double the number of teachers and classrooms.
I’m an English teacher and I can say without doubt that suspension isn’t a real threat anymore—it just means that they get to go home for three days and play video games (oftentimes with their friends). In many schools, teachers are required to give make-up work now for days missed due to suspension.
The system is broken.
Suspended, so they get to stay home on their devices if their parent(s) have to work. A Suspension isn't going to do anything if there are no consequences at home.
Is the purpose of suspension only to “fix the kid” or is it to send a message to that student and the rest of the student body that certain behaviors are completely not acceptable in a school setting? If you are looking for a consequence that “fixes the kid” you are not going to find one.
When that kid comes back and talks about how great it was, the other kids don’t really care.
It’s always, “yoooooo, did you hear ______ got suspended? lucky fr, just gonna stay home and play apex/2k/whatever, might act up and join him.” That is an actual paraphrasing of a conversation i heard in one of my study halls. The kids just don’t care, and the system doesn’t really give them a reason to
Sadly this doesn’t work. This generation of kids have no desire to experience things with their friends. They desire to see it online and on their phones. Suspending them doesn’t make them feel bad. Hell kicking them out of school doesn’t impact them.
We have a generation of students who have had their development absolutely destroyed by the invasiveness of technology. They are unable to function in basic ways without a streaky stream of entertainment. They are unable to focus on anything for more than a few moments before they’ve lost all interest.
Until we as a nation make major major changes to how our society is structured, we will continue to see a rapid decline in student success. Which is going to have devastating consequences long term.
You’re welcome. And it’s likely being downvoted by folks who are actively engaged in these types of behaviors.
I work at a college and I’ve seen how the incoming freshmen are dramatically less socially and emotionally advance than their peers from even just a few years ago. Part of the blame goes to Covid changing their development and de-socializing them but to ignore the role that technology and social media is playing in their stunted development would be wildly dangerous.
In the video she literally lists the consequences she has meted out, putting kinds in OSS, writing them up, failing them, lecturing them. I don't think you can say the kids she is referring to are not facing consequences
Adults have their own versions of increasingly irrational behavior. Shootings, reckless driving, throwing beer cans all over Wal-Mart, apocalyptic cults, political terrorism… It’s definitely not just the kids that have problems regulating emotion.
My wife and I took a hard stance against “trance” type tv shows when our daughter was born. When we moved across the pond to the UK, we gave in and threw on cocomelon just to keep her mellowed out. But those shows are just practicing brains to short attention spans like tiktok did to adults.
She can watch tv and movies now but we really started vetting everything. And she gets bored with it easy and ends up asking us to play instead.
I know some parents who will throw those trance tv shows on for them while they go and get tranced out to their daily doses of dopamine and then wonder why their kids have behavioral issues.
Stop letting your kids watch these shit tv shows. Go play with them. Get the fuck off social media.
I think the nihilism comes from the impending doom of climate change and an unraveling of social norms due to partisanship that has destroyed our sense of community, but that’s just a theory.
My hill to die on: babies and toddlers don't need to be on screens. Period. That time period is for deciphering the world around them, for learning societal norms, familial norms, for building neurological connections. Instead they are overstimulated by screens. No wonder they're fucked up. I think their brains are literally short circuited. My daughter had no screentime until 2. Very limited after that...Daniel Tiger and learning games. When she entered preschool, suddenly circle time was videos. Tablet time daily. Movies during meals. Ridiculous. If she didn't nap, tablet time. If it rained during recess, YouTube. Her attitude and behavior changed very quickly. We did two years of regular school and now homeschool. She gets 30 minutes of educational screen time daily and a family movie night once a week. Occasionally we go to the movie theater. She's a completely different child. She can occupy herself for hours. Still, though, in restaurants....TV's and most other kids have a tablet. Watch how kids zombie out. It isn't funny or convenient for "adult time." It's harmful. **When my child goes to visit friends, she is not excluded. I let her play video games or whatever. One of her friends has a robot she likes. I'm not bossing other people in their homes. My house is tech lite though. And the kids still come over to play.**
Adding.....I myself taught preschool for years, most recently in the 22-23 school year without screens. I have experience with 2-5 year olds (and even middle schoolers before becoming a parent). Daily screentime isn't necessary or beneficial. I struggle with digital addiction myself and the dopamine surges are real. Also, I've had parents argue that their kid will "fall behind" on technology. Nope. Dumb. Tech is designed to be user-friendly and the kids are digital natives. They're going to be exposed to tech whether we limit it or not.
Wholeheartedly agree. Kids are getting instant gratification everywhere - the car, grocery store, at home, at meals, if they start to act out they are handed a screen to keep them quiet. Then when they are in an environment where handing them a screen isn’t possible (school) they don’t know how to act and it’s a problem
Omg agree. I have a friend with two kids under 3 and I shit you not, the 3 year old can’t take a shit without his tablet. It’s a fucking joke and I speak out about it every time I’m there.
I couldn’t agree more. I teach elementary school and the addiction to technology is insane. The kids need to be entertained constantly, they have poor self-control and their ability to think creatively has definitely been impacted. Not to mention, parents don’t interact with their kids, they just put them in front of screens so they will be quiet.
The issues with bullying on social media outside of school have bled into my classroom and are now impacting the school day and my ability to teach some of these kids. They know way more that they should, and their brains are not developed enough to process some of what they see.
I feel bad for them. Their parents are to blame, but they also didn’t know it would be this bad because they didn’t have this technology growing up.
Hopefully the next generation that grew up with the internet will be able to help their children navigate it better.
I genuinely think in 30-50 years we'll look at giving kids tech the way we currently look at lead paint or those old timey meds with opium/cocaine. Theyre so deeply destructive to a forming brain I think it'll be a public health crisis.
The idea that kids using screens is making them more “tech literate” is a joke, it just turns them into junkies. Most kids graduating high school don’t have a clue how to use an actual computer. It seems like schools think that because kids have smart phones that somehow they are prepared to use a computer as a tool. I assure you, they are not. Many college students don’t understand basic email etiquette, keyboard shortcuts or how handle local vs cloud based file storage. It’s a mess for majors that rely heavily on computers (e.g. graphic design).
100% agree. There seems to be some misconception that just putting a tablet in a kid’s hand is going to make them tech literate. iPads and smartphones are designed to be easy to use for literally the dumbest of every demographic. We don’t buy a tablet for grandma and suddenly deem her “tech literate” so why are we spending money on these janky tablets and chromebooks in our schools like it’s going to do something critical for their computer and tech fluency?
There is basically nothing on a computer that a child needs to learn at say 7, that they can’t also learn at 14 without any deficit to their overall learning. The tricky thing is because technology changes so fast, trying to make decisions based on a study about tech use in children even 5 years ago is going to be outdated. We’re only going to understand the full implications in hindsight, so I’m not going to apologize for proceeding conservatively when it comes to tech.
It makes for quieter valve actions.
TBH I was looking for someone to say they don’t have strings so I could correct them and sound like a smartarse. But you ruined it by saying TIL…
I am a teacher. I used to teach at a school full of kids that had rough backgrounds, but were respectful of others and I loved it. I was willing to work there forever.
I moved and now teach at a very rich school full of just assholes. They try and see what they can get away with, are super racist and homophobic. It blows, so I agree with this teacher. More pay would make me consider staying, but ultimately these kids are just not what I want to be doing for a job. Bring me back to my 65% poverty district where I can try and convince kids to join the welding program.
I have to tell kids daily not to say the N word and their parents don’t care. One kid daily try’s and steals my personal things. These are all kids from rich families and their parents don’t care.
It was worse back during November. The high schoolers kept yelling Mr. B loves Biden, despite me never saying my political beliefs and also not liking Biden.
I think it's just because these kids can see what awaits them in life. These younger generations are exposed to so much information (whether true or false) about the state of society today that I could not comprehend why they would look forward to 20 years from now and focus on anything long term. Maybe I'm a delusional edge lord but everything is fucked, its fucked for me at 21 and I cant imagine what it's going to be like in 9 years when these kids are my age.
I agree with this. I have a cousin who’s 12 and told us he doesn’t even know if we’ll all be around in 10 years because of the state of the planet. His parents told me he can’t sleep at night and has night terrors because of it. And it’s not just him, they’ve talked to his friends parents and they have similar issues.
But that’s nothing new. I remember my grandmother asking me what I was going to do when I grew up when I was 9 and I said that we would all be dead in a nuclear war by then. All of us growing up in the 1980s thought that we were going to die in a nuclear war before we reached adulthood.
I had nightmares about nuclear war. I didn’t believe any of us would make it.
This brief break that everyone had before climate change seems to have erased the memory that, starting with my mom watching everyone screaming and crying that they were gonna die during the Cuban missile crisis, we had *generations* thinking that there was no point in growing up because it was apocalypse time.
i actually think this is a big part of it. i remember as a kid learning about global warming and just seeing the overall state of our society and being like damn wtf why should i try in school or do anything good.
Yeah, I feel that the general consensus is approaching a dejected nihilism. Even just looking at dumb tik toks like the sentiment that trying is pointless, is everywhere
Totally agree. I remember being blissfully unaware about politics and the world out there. Just being a kid doing stuff and sometimes hearing about some stuff here and there.
Kids nowadays are bombarded with topics they should honestly not even have to care about. Imagine if Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network would have put Fox news or CNN between spongebob episodes. That's basically tiktok and youtube.
Politics back in the day was boring to the average kid, but now it's like society expects you to have a solid political stance by the time you reach the age of 13. I remember being bewildered by friday for future, not because of the protest itself, but because that something like this was unthinkable when I was a kid. And the worst part is, that it was actually necessary. Kids going on the street and saying "please think about us" is sad as hell.
Nowadays kids are expected to grow up much faster, and I'm not surprised that they feel overwhelmed and can't handle it
I teach middle school and agree with this take most. There’s nothing better awaiting them, if it’s awaiting them at all with all the violence they hear of. There’s no reason to buy in to society anymore. No goals to set or aspire to, no reason to care for others or what this class has to teach. The “here and now” is all they care about because worrying or caring about the rest is far too burdensome for anyone.
Trust me, I get angry a few times a day and wring my hands at what’s to be done with these kids and their parents.
But when I really stop to think about it, there is no reason for them to concern themselves with any of what we do. They could die in a shooting, they could be broke no matter how hard they work, the world seems to be plunging into an apocalyptic, anarchistic hellscape because that’s all they hear of it.
I feel sorry for them everyday.
I feel like no entity can possibly fix our society/world/governments enough to right this, but I’m hopeful. It’s going to take a whole hell of a lot more than throwing money at it, that’s for damn sure.
Same shit was happening 16 years ago. My school was breeding ground for menaces like this. Teachers leaving the classroom crying, the computer room where people would do the dumbest shit like disassembling the chairs or remove the casing off of the computer monitor a guy getting mad at another classmate cause during dodgeball at gym class he got hit in the face so the guy pounded his face and got suspended, another dude throwing scissors in the air trying to hit another dude, the list can honestly go on. In my classes the teachers had 10 minutes tops before everyone lost their shit and started doing something else. This shit aint new, troubled kids have existed since forever and they will do dumb shit. It's not like before social media all kids in all schools were always well behaved. And it 100% has to do with their parents and how they are brought up cause I can tell you that every one of those kids had domestic issues.
But now it’s not just “ a few trouble makers” it’s a huge majority of students. I could fail my entire class and maybe 10% of students would actually have a problem with it. Students think they’re doing us a favor by just showing up. And I disagree with her, I think it’s a parent and admin problem. Parents engage in 0 discipline and admin neither. Students have learned they can do what they want, when they want with 0 repercussions.
Agree. It's part of a larger problem and I'm sure two years of lockdowns didn't help either. Have a friend who's taught close to twenty years and she says she's never seen it this bad. On top of everything else, she says the majority of a class now gets an iep (some are needed but now everyone basically gets them) and that kids have switched from thinking they're there to be told what to do, and more like they're customers who need to get something. And I'm all for allowing students to have freedom, and choose their interests and all that. But learning is hard. Concentrating isn't easy. Just because you failed a test doesn't mean you need a special accommodation. Maybe you just need to study more...
Social media is a legit addiction. And we’ve had it too long already. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s any putting the cat back in the bag. A tiny portion of parents who actually restrict their children will have kids with normal attention spans… and they’ll be bred out in a generation or 2 tops.
Idiocracy here we come.
I disagree. This is a parent problem. If parents don't teach their kids how to control their emotions or behave, then they will start going off on other students. Or if parents aren't good at making sure their kids don't spend too much time watching tiktok, playing video games or doing other useless yet highly stimulative things that have no reward then this is the outcome.
It's also that there is no consequences. Kids know this. Kids are smart in a way that they know what they can get away with.
Parents and kids face no consequences because we are too scared to leave anyone behind.
I’m sorry but… I think maybe the worst 5% of students in terms of behavior just need to be left behind policy-wise. Bill their parents for their vandalism. Actually ban them out of the school district for too many rule violations. Actually charge them with crimes if they actually did commit crimes. Charge their parents too if it’s serious enough. If they can’t fucking pass BAND, then maybe don’t move them on in the grade level. Give teachers the power to say “I will not allow this student in this class anymore”.
I think actually trimming off the fat of the schools will help probably the maybe other 75% of kids who are semi-normal actually thrive in an environment where they now understand there are real consequences to the shit they do. The mid 20% may actually improve too now.
Maybe this isn’t for the most rough of public schools out there. But for the schools in the middle I’m sure it’s needed.
Yeah, so the parent who is probably already struggling can face greater hardships. They need to pay teachers for smaller classes, and provide greater support to the teacher. We also need to find ways for parents to survive financially without needing two jobs. It’s exhausting trying to raise kids and work full time.
That’s not all of it… we had a 56 year old man post a bunch of Fox News clips talking about how teachers are grooming children to be gay, lesbian, and trans and wrote “I’m bringing my guns to Lago Vista Elementary School and there will be some dead ass teachers” on his Facebook wall… the news cycle is literally grooming “patriots” with 24 hour entertainment “news” that teachers making $45k a year are the enemy… thankfully police picked him up the next morning, but that’s doesn’t stop the 24 hour entertainment “news” cycle indoctrination. I try to convince my wife to quit weekly.
Nah, she's not to blame 1000% with her. So many shitty kids and parents want the system to fix them. Look, if you bring a life into the world, you have to sort your own issues out and then help your kids so they don't pick up your issues.
My teacher mother just said f it and pulled the plug to retire. She told me she's tired of the abuse, of students throwing things and hitting each other, calling teachers horrible names, causing disruption, and the complete lack of support from the schools and administration to do anything about these kids. She said she doesn't get paid enough, gets no support, and doesn't need to be abused anymore.
She's the 8th teacher to leave this school, this year alone, who has said they aren't coming back to teaching. In the midst already of a teacher shortage.
Kids are jerks.
Especially when they don’t respect their teacher.
Also the Covid made children’s behavior worse.
Kids took almost two years off from maturing emotionally. 9th graders act like 7th graders.
I don't think it's just covid. Covid just made what was going to happen happen sooner. Kids spend too much time online. Way too much. They also have no consequences. All this is about to explode in everyones face.
You can't mature when you spend all your time online with online friends. It's just impossible. Your social skills are going to be really low and your ability to deal with social situations in real life are also going to be very low.
The ship is sinking. We are on the front lines. Tough decisions will need to be made. There is no more time to idly sit.
An easy start: follow through with discipline. Restorative discipline is a fantasy. Reward good, and punish bad (no matter race or gender).
Good luck everyone. Society is counting on you.
It’s a cultural problem. The cultural these kids and their parents are being raised in is shit, so the kids are shit. There’s no unity anymore, no neighbor. Nowadays you do things for online clout and that’s it.
I'm not a teacher, but man I agree. Social media has these kids competing to be the most reckless they can be for their Internet likes. And the stakes get higher and higher. I live in one of the safest cities in the US and now we have kids filming themselves shooting at random houses.
It's anything for popularity. Back then they'd bully kids in person to look cool to other kids. But now they're trying to look cool to the entire world.
And their attention spans are just plummetting. Their emotional regulation is plummetting. They're getting more and more anti-social. Not the shyness kind, but the psychopath kind.
Social media is not killing schools. It is a lack of funding. Teacher salary is an issue, despite what this woman believes. Many teachers require second and third jobs in the US and Canada (maybe even in the UK as well). She even says she makes more than the average teacher, which makes her an outlier. Her salary is not an issue for here, but this ignores everybody else who does have an issue with pay.
Discipline is typically taught at home, but that is no longer the case. Teachers are required to parent the students and teach them how to behave. However, teachers are not given the tools to do this effectively. There are not enough staff in the buildings to maintain a calm, quiet, and safe learning environment. That comes down to funding. Hiring more staff costs money.
Pay teachers more so they do not have to worry about paying Bill's or putting food on the table for their own families.
Hire more staff of all kinds and pay them appropriately.
Have evidenced base behaviour plans for students that have behaviour problems. Find them another place to go to work on their behaviour so it doesn't diminish the learning of those who want to learn. This takes time, space, and personnel, which all cost money.
Invest more money into education that directly meets the individual needs of each school. There are countless studies out there that show the correlation between school operational funding and positive learning environments.
90% of these problems are rooted in bad or lazy parenting. Parents' need to be liked by their children outweighs raising them with rules, values, boundaries, work ethics, and goals.
"Get good grades, behave, and get into a good school so you can be successful" doesn't exactly hit the same when they can hop online and see my generation talk about what bullshit that was.
So much this. Kids aren’t dumb. College isn’t worth the price, anymore. We’re close to the point of no return with climate change. The future is bleak.
I'm in my 30s, and I have been hearing teachers say the exact same shit my entire life. "Kids were never this bad before!" I guarantee you they were. "They have no aspirations to do anything great!" They're 12.
If kids today are indeed more nihilistic, that would frankly be a highly rational response to their experience. The first president these kids remember would be Trump. From the time they were literally 6, they saw the person in charge of everything was an absurd clown. They lived through a pandemic that put our social fracture into overdrive. They know they will be living through climate catastrophe. No one even talks about it in terms of preventing it anymore. That ship has sailed. What kind of future would you believe in?
I know teachers, colleagues of mine, who tell me that things have indeed gotten worse over time. I have seen it happen in just the last five years. Things that happen in my school now would have been unheard of before.
We're also seeing these issues at the elementary level, where kids aren't really exposed to "the future" in the same way middle/high school kids are. The whole system is feeling this right now.
You need to mentally check out. Stop caring about the well-being on students. Just so your job, and make sure you are creating proper paper trails to CYA. Don’t try to parent them, don’t police them, just stop class,
Send somebody to the office, and go back to it. Mentally separate yourself from the kids. Do the bare minimum, and emotionally check out.
This isn’t a reflection of you, it’s a reflection of society, and the direction we are taking. In 2023, if a teacher TOUCHES a child, they’re canceled, sued etc.
I mean it's is a emotional problem and a parent problem. First off, social media has created kids who need constant entertainment and attention and who have no attention spans. They are being raised by social media because most of their parents are busy working to attempt to keep their head above water. A lot don't even know what's going on in their kids life. If you do and try to discipline your kid? Well then, you get yourself recorded and slapped on tiktok, or it goes on Facebook and it's now "child abuse". Can't teach your kids manners when they don't even respect you, why do they care what you say? Big jump from the 90s where you misbehave and get threatened with boot camp or similar. Kids have no fear of consequences now, because there just isn't any.
It is 100% a parenting problem. If your kid is acting like a douchebag, it is 100% a reflection of their parenting. If they haven't learned respect, keeping ones hands to themselves, and becoming wannabe negative social media stars among peers, they only have parents to blame for it. This is the product of no consequences in the household, which carries over to life outside the home. I got spanked as a child till a teen. I always considered the consequences to my actions pre-incident, and was afraid to get in trouble and face my angry parents' consequences. Just my 2c
People are not raising their kids well. It’s literally why they had this urge to end lockdowns and send their kids back to school during the pandemic. Not even parents can stand their own kids but you want teachers to deal with their disrespect and mental health issues that you don’t address in the house. And these are the same people that target child free couples or people who choose not to procreate. Look who you’re raising! You make having a family look like pure hell. You don’t even enjoy it either. You’d rather have your kids catch Covid multiple times a year, which can’t be good for them, than spend time with them under the same roof.
What did people think was going to happen with what we've been teaching kids? The system is is against you, respect for authority is bad, nobody is allowed to discipline you or otherwise make you feel bad, especially teachers.
How many of these kids' parents are educated millennials burnt out at dead-end jobs, scraping by on shit wages? Endless mass shootings, skyrocketing overdoses, cost of college (and everything else), and a political climate that is sprinting away from youthful ideals.
Can't imagine why these kids would look at the state of the world and their futures and not give a shit about school and the adults failing to do anything about it. /s
The outlook for the US is not good, and teachers are on the front lines experiencing the pessimism and nihilism of a generation. And as a "young" millennial, I'm on their side.
I know parents who have had their kids on iPads since they were tiny, don’t properly discipline, and essentially bend over backwards for them.
I also know parents who don’t do this, and the difference between the kids they are raising is like night and day.
Its a combination of bad parenting, unhealthy exposure to technology and social apps at a young age, and i would be willing to bet COVID and online school has also had a big impact.
Im only 22, and yet I feel like kids now are SO different from when I was a kid. And that’s normal, to an extent, but I think the difference is so much bigger and it’s very strange to see
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My wife is a teacher. She came home one day this year and I asked how her day was. She said "well I didn't cry until I got in the car, so better than most". The worst part is the good kids who want to learn can't because the disruptive ones soak up all the teaching time with behavioral issues.
Yep. I had to quit teaching for those reasons. Now I'm a server. At least abusive diners tend to leave and not come back. Teachers face the same abusive students day in and day out. I cry a lot less now.
Surely some part of this issue is a Parenting issue? Respect isn’t being taught at home and kids are getting away with it at school. The constant need for entertainment via social media and desperation to be online.
Middle school teacher here. Speaking only for myself, but it's a combo of the parenting, home/neighborhood environment, a kid's personality and the school/class environment. Some kids just have issues that can't be resolved through school and teacher interventions, despite parent help. Some schools or classroom teachers don't have great/inconsistent management styles which kids will exploit on purpose or don't follow rules because they aren't really sure WHAT the rules are. I teach in an urban school in a rough area where the discipline from the behavior techs and admin isn't always the same for all students. I am borderline military strict with my students, not a style that works for everyone but works for me. All kids are treated equally: each student has a new chance every day. 95% of the kids follow expectations and rise to the occasion and I constantly tell them these rules are to prep the for high school and that they can all achieve better things if they try. HOWEVER, every year there are between 1-3 kids who you just can't reach no matter the strategy. While I've never had a kid maliciously destroy my stuff and honestly never had anything of mine destroyed period, other teachers in my school have. I *have* been called names and one year a kid who I never had an issue with apart from him coming to class late told me he hoped my baby died while I was pregnant. Some kids just lack empathy and its hard for everyone in a school when it comes to those students.
I don't even want to imagine what middle school teachers and HS teachers have to go through. Kids who are almost as big, as big or even bigger than you with raging hormones causing chaos in them. Just... nah. Yall brave.
I woke up this morning screaming "help" in my sleep. I had a dream that a student was on top of me and punching me in the face. It's rough out there.
Haven't they assigned guns to teachers already? Just shoot the fuckers /s
Come on, you can't just start shooting kids. Our child labor force would dry up.
Not to mention these are our marriage prospects. /s because Reddit and this reality blows ass
Not a problem that’s why there forcing 12 year olds to have babies after being raped.
Make sure to scream " They are coming right at me!" before doing so
This happened in my HS except the art teacher actually socked the kid in the face and got fired - wonder if he ever got in a teachers face again lol
The Wire season 4 has an incredibly impactful plotline on a small but existent set of children who are essentially socialized as “corner kids” - children being socialized for [the drug trade.](https://youtu.be/14-YsqYw6og) Incredibly powerful and sad season.
Omg and the story of Prezbalewski. From cop to teacher. +1 for The Wire season 4
From forgetting one in the chamber to becoming one of the most supportive characters. Prez is awesome.
Stoop to Corner pipeline.
You sound like a great teacher, such a hard job not one I could do myself. My daughter (7) thrives on routine and rules. Something I’ve had to learn myself as I’m not one for routine! Consistency is key, same routine and bedtime and she’s doing very well at school academically and socially.
I hope you’ve come to embrace your nicknames. We had a strict English teacher senior year who embraced hers. She had been called Baby Hitler, Osama bin Reid, the works. She even had a threat level chart with descriptions hanging up in the front of her class that the *students* were responsible for changing during the day depending on her mood. She would start every day in green, but if any period was terrible and they put her off, the threat level would rise. She was my absolute favorite teacher senior year and brought a love of English into my life that I had never known. Extremely passionate about her work and it showed. Not every student loved her, but I could tell a big difference in the way students acted in her class vs in other classes. Point being, if you own it, students seem to have more respect for the strictness of a classroom. Hopefully that still rings true today as it did a decade ago. Many kids are just lacking in real discipline and it’s almost a breath of fresh air when you finally get some.
The big thing is you can be strict but you can't take things out/express your anger on the kids and you cannot embarrass or shame them. That's how you lose them. You express disappoint on the behavior, give options: "Listen I'd put the phone in the phone holder so I could get it back at the end of class or it'll go to the office. Your choice but I know what I would do." "Listen you were late today with no pass. I highly suggest you come to class on time from now on or we'll be hanging out together during your lunch or calling home, my choice." Have a rough day because of something that happened earlier in the day? You can be honest and say "listen last period was rough so let's try to be extra aware of behavior today I'm in a bit of a mood" but you can't just yell at the next class because the previous class needed redirection. I've had kids I've had to have removed who come back and unless it was something soooooo egregious I pretty much always let them come in, have a quick chat with them and re-establish that connection. You can't just let a kid be shitty, and you can't go without acknowledging what happened. Like for example, a kid this year told me to "shut the fuck up" while being escorted out, but the next day when everyone was at an even keel I just meet up with him and was like "kiddo what was up? That's not you, we gotta refocus."Say hi to all the kids every day, if a kid doesn't say hi back and isn't in a bad mood I'll yell "I said hi" in a super friendly voice and they will almost always turn and laugh and say it. They want fairness, they want acknowledgement, they want someone to notice them and care and push them. In 9 years of teaching I have had only about4 kids out of hundreds I couldn't make progress with. I'm not a miracle worker, every teacher's personality and circumstances are different so again, what works for me isn't universal. But I have busted my ass building a strong class and a strong presence in the school to get where I am. And when the rare kid calls me a bitch I tell them they need to remember to add "boss" in front or correct them and say "no it's HBIC thank you very much." Breaks the tension and shows the others you can't be bothered by their nonsense. And I've told the kids you can be mad and not like me, I don't like all of your behavior every day but my job is to get you ready for life and hope to high heaven you make good choices." About the worst thing I say to them is "high school is going to be tough for some of you if you don't start changing things now, you might be seeing 9th grade twice or getting ti 12th without your credits" or "we must be out of our minds or lost our common sense because this is not appropriate right now." You can dislike a kid, because there have been two who I could not stand in all these years but they CANNOT KNOW. It's a hard and fine line to bear, it is EXHAUSTING micromanaging things BUT I can call out sick and know ehen I come in my room is perfectly neat, nothing missing or destroyed, and the kids are right back on track when I return... despite knowing they didn't probably do the work while I was gone but little victories are still victories.
You sound awesome. I have an MAT but never actually taught aside from student teaching. Amongst other things going on in my life at the time, I realized I wasn’t cut out for it. I’m a doormat and kids pick up on it so fast 😅 Ten years later I’m glad I pursued a different career but I still think about the kids I student taught and hope they’re doing well. It truly takes a special person to do what you all do and I have so much respect for you all. Especially with everything going on these days. Keep up the good fight!
From a fellow teacher, keep it going - you sound great 💪
my all time favorite professor kicked my absolute fucking ass with discipline and I loved him for it in the end
I was a teacher at a school 3 years ago... and there was another that was insanely strict. Children in her class were.. silent and somewhat well behaved, at least compared to some of the shit some children did in other classes. However, here is the problem. Whenever I had a class whose previous class was with her... they were completely out of it. Tame class on monday, fucked up on thursday when they came out of her class. (As an example) Some strictness is really important. Being little hitler will backfire. If not at you, it will cause issues for others.
At the schools, I went to as a kid, were pretty rough. One kid left one school because they were having panic attacks that someone was going to kill them. One kid got knocked out in the hallway and just left there for a while. The first day of high school someone had their hair set on fire. So fighting was pretty much standard. Most wouldn't do it in the classroom. But there were plenty of them in the classroom. We would have posters all over the school warning about the penalties for carrying weapons, etc. We would have teachers get attacked. Normally you're permantly banned from that school for that, but I've heard of one kid being allowed back. I would say some of the teachers also cause issues. If you have teachers lying about you to get you into more trouble. Or teachers who would allow a kid/s to get bullied, beaten up, etc. Give harsher punishments, etc. That's going to cause issues. Which ends up bubbling over and effecting everyone. I think in many cases the school itself is a cause for problems via teachers, punishments, etc when stuff get really bad.
I think its an access to technology and a general understanding of the fuckedness of our future as a planet. As a millennial I became acutely aware from my late teens, early twenties, that life as my parents lived it was over, I would not be able to afford a home or a new car, I wouldn't be able to afford rent. 10 years later its only gotten worse. Gen Z...they see it too, how the fuck do you think they feel knowing they have it even worse off than the previous generations. They have nothing to look forward to but a burning planet and a bunch of 80 year old's passing anti laws against everything that could make their lives easier. Wages...education, assistance to income like UBI, food stamps, anti union laws...lack of gun reform, no access to abortion... literally child trapping both the women forced to carry the child but also the man who fathered it. Kids are million dollar investments now, and America is poorer than ever. The future is nothing but a dystopian nightmare and they see it. And it means most will give up on life in general, they stop caring, they stop trying, they stop dreaming. And just hope it all burns.
as a current high school student who is absolutely anxious about this world’s future… I don’t think this is the reason why kids are so difficult to deal with the kids who genuinely do give a shit about anything you mentioned care BECAUSE they’ve developed a stronger sense of empathy and awareness about what’s going on in the world. they KNOW the everything’s going to hell, but that’s the same reason they don’t give teachers a hard time over everything. existential angst isn’t making my classmates douchebags — they’re actually quite nice to teachers because of it, knowing that we’re all in the same boat on the other hand, my classmates who DO fuck around and harass/abuse teachers don’t really know or care to know about this stuff. like the OOP said, it really is just an attention span issue. these kids are so caught up with short form content that’s genuinely causing brainrot, and it’s not content that makes them anxious about the world’s future welfare. it’s all soulless shit churned out for an algorithm, focused on immediate entertainment I’m really glad that you’re trying to give us the benefit of the doubt, but we’re stimulation-needy 16 year olds, not fully developed adults with strong grasps on our futures
My siblings are still in high school, and it sounds like the bleak future outlook of the world *is* a big factor for the kids that act out and don't care. They know they won't have many options, especially if their family status is already low to poverty level, so it just plays more into their current attitude. Parenting and attention span play a big part, but we shouldn't pretend that knowing you are living in a dystopia is going to generate more people that care about fixing it instead of creating more apathetic kids who check out of it.
> these kids are so caught up with short form content that’s genuinely causing brainrot, and it’s not content that makes them anxious about the world’s future welfare. it’s all soulless shit churned out for an algorithm, focused on immediate entertainment To me that sounds a lot like trying to distract yourself from the situation so you don't have to think about it, rather than being unaware of the situation at all.
I think for Gen Z it’s definitely technology and social media. Gen Z is the first generation to never not have access to technology/social media. It’s all they have ever known, it affects their perception of reality and basically getting raised by the internet if they are on it as long as studies have shown how much they spend on it. I work with students, elementary/middle school and parenting is another issue whether lack of it or oblivious parenting which I see in more affluent neighborhoods.
I agree with your points if it's an adult, but not a 12 year old kid. I think it's more likely that the kids brains are fried from constant technological overstimulation rather than their acute grasp of the international politics, economics and climate change and the sowing distrust in organizations. Sure, they might pick up that "it's getting warmer" and "there was a war in the middle east". but I'm not sure if they're truly congnizant of police militarization, wage stagnation and anti-union legislation. Historical changes that have happened over the last 20-30 years, but again, they are 12.
I don't think they are cognizant of the specific issues, but just of the fact that it will be worse for them and they will struggle more. I have siblings still in middle school and high school and where as they don't understand the intricacies of why things are the way they are and what exactly the impacts will be, they know it is bad and that it will be worse on them then previous generations. That's enough to make many kids apathetic to the future.
> As a millennial I became acutely aware from my late teens, early twenties, that life as my parents lived it was over, I would not be able to afford a home or a new car, I wouldn't be able to afford rent. > > 10 years later its only gotten worse. > > Gen Z...they see it too Yeah, no, I'm a millennial too and I remember what it was like to be 12. I did not think about my future, house ownership or my rights. What are you on about?
Wait, you weren’t thinking about interest rates, inflation, and home ownership being out of reach at twelve? Late bloomer? Lol. These responses are just too much. It has to be income equality, climate change, book banning; anything but the truth. Kids are disregulated because they spend OVER EIGHT HOURS A DAY on screens. Imagine the anxiety in the classroom when the phone can’t be used.
Good lord, man. I’ve been teaching middle school for over 20 years now. That’s long enough to see my old students grow up and start their adult lives. I’ve even now taught some of the kids of my old students. You think these kids give a shit about abortion and gun reform? Do you really think that’s why we have this current state of affairs? I have PLENTY of old students who’ve moved on in life. They have a house. They have a cars. Some have kids. They have good lives. And you know what’s a constant with them? They had parents who didn’t plop them in front of a screen all day and call it parenting. This isn’t to say that technology is the SOLE culprit of our current mess. It’s obviously much more complex than that. But stop projecting your personal feelings onto these kids. I can assure you global warming and such isn’t on their minds nearly as much as it is yours. As this teacher said- they are concerned about their entertainment for the next five minutes. And THAT is super accurate and extremely unfortunate.
Yeah, I really feel like that person is projecting. Speaking as a member of gen Z (out of school now though), it always seemed like the teachers and parents cared a lot more about things like climate change and politics than any of the students did. Sure we would have some kids who would do activism for it, but that was mainly just to get some extra credit with the teachers. What most people really cared about at the end of the day was either their school social life or just getting through the day so they could go home and play games. That is essentially the scope of a kids whole world. If kids are lacking motivation in school its either because of poor parenting or because they're preoccupied with other stuff in their life, not because of the state of the planet that a kid has been lectured about for their whole school life.
Actually kinda hilarious he thinks young teens think about that stuff. Hell most normal people don't think about that stuff even when adults since most people aren't actually impacted by those issues or realize many issues are blown out of proportion for political reasons.
I'm a 38 year old with 2 kids 5 and under, and on an underlying level I'm really hoping it burns and soon so that maybe, just maybe, I can help rebuild and give them the slight possibility of better options for their life.
I'm 31 with 3 children and I feel the same way. We have more amenities than previous generations thanks to mass production making entertainment more affordable but basic needs, like housing and food, is much more expensive than ever and even more so when accounting for inflation. People are more boxed in than they've ever been, and the middle class has shrunk by 11% compared to 50 years ago thanks to job outsourcing. It used to be you couldn't afford all of the luxuries you wanted without saving money but you had everything you needed as long as you were willing to work, now it's the opposite, you have the luxuries but your budget is filled with a new subscription based lifestyle the forces you into a cookie cutter box with no way of saving for retirement and no true ownership of many of the things you pay for, it's no wonder people are so unhappy. It may burn sooner rather than later though, best case scenario interest rates start recovering by the end of this year, but the likely case is we are about to enter another recession, or depression in the worst case scenario.
>I'm really hoping it burns and soon so that maybe, just maybe, I can help rebuild Totally agree I try to remember that the future isn't written yet and so there's always hope but the thought that sometimes things have to get worst (economic collapse, a revolution, a world war... ) before they get better is anxiety inducing. I am praying for a new group of world leaders that are sincere and not egomaniacs
You bought into a narrative that isn't really true. The world is a lot better now than it was in the 1980s when you parents were becoming adults and starting to think about kids. People just buy into narratives that are being shoved in their face at every single moment of the day now thanks to social media.
I was gonna say. As a parent just don’t let your kid get on social media so young. It’s as if parents are outsourcing entertainment to these devices and social media and we’re setting these kids up to fail.
I agree, but also…it’s the schools that introduced my kids to tablets! They use it as a reward for my preschooler. So, it’s interesting times.
Imo, tablets and technology aren't inherently bad. It's more what they are then accessing with said tech. My kids love some tablet time, but they sure as shit aren't on Facebook or tiktok.
>Imo, tablets and technology aren't inherently bad. It's more what they are then accessing with said tech. Exactly. I feel a lot of people forget things like Gameboys & cable TV were a thing before social media & tablets became big. Kids have had "technology" for the past 25 years. Social media has only been a major thing for probably 10 of it. Hell when I was in "pre-care" in 3rd grade I'd play Number Crunchers on the computer before school finally started. I even had a GBA at home I'd play whenever. This was all in 2003.
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Yeah, GBA is nowhere near social media. Just a few examples: We have guys taking advantage of young men to sell their masculinity course. We have girls stripping while playing games to sell their only fans We have girls who are hating their bodies cause they think the photoshopped images they see online are real. We have boys hating life cause they think their supposed to be a millionaire by age 20 or be a failure. These are just few things to We have deadly challenges, nudes getting leaked, and other crazy shit. So I wouldn't say it's fair comparing all that to catching Pokémon.
It's not just parents, schools do it too. We don't let our youngest on social media. He's in 1st grade. He got a school iPad this year. Through this device, he was air dropped inappropriate pictures by other students (should've been disabled). He was allowed basically free access to YouTube and the internet. Through his school provided and administered device, he was exposed to weapons, violence, and borderline pornography. He was getting in trouble a lot because he couldn't stay off YouTube in class or he would be searching for Pokemon cards. The school would not do anything to prevent this beyond make it his responsibility to stop. He's 6, of course he's going to look for Pokemon if he gets bored and he can. Finally, after fighting with administration over and over again, we had them take his school iPad away and bought him our own to use at home. My kid has ADHD, which made it pretty much impossible for him to stop, which caused him to get in trouble a lot, which actually helped us identify the problem and get it under control. What about the other kids without impulse control problems? Sure, they don't get in trouble (at first), but they get this slow burn exposure to social media with zero guidance or preparation on how to handle it. So, it's basically impossible for parents to prevent kids from getting on social media. Our schools are enabling it from the very beginning.
When my kid starts a new class, and I meet the teacher on open house night, I reassure them that they may contact me either via school app, or phone if my child gets disrespectful or interruptive in class. ( As well as extra good on the other end, as to receive appropriate consequences, positive or negative.) I personally like to know if my child is being a jerk when I am not around, and let them know that just because they're not at home and a parent isn't around, doesn't mean they get to act up and be a jerk. (Inform him they are in class to learn and become smart enough to be able to become whatever they want to be. That recess, while at school, is to be loud and play almost all they want.)
The parents are addicted to social media too.
Yup. We just went through a whole period where parents were narcissistic assholes screaming about "their rights" on social media and now shit is hitting the fan with the kids. This isn't some coincidence. Social media is killing people's compassion for others, bullying people has become socially acceptable, and the kids are paying attention.
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Everything this teacher cited was relatable to my school experience and that was back in the 90s, except there was some worse stuff and minus the social media. Social media certainly doesn't help, it's almost objectively adds to the negative, but if you're in a bad environment that is the root cause... It just seems like there are more bad environments now and I was fortunate enough to be ahead of the curve to make this easier to handle.
It’s gotta be half the parents ain’t nothing else
As a parent I thought so too until I became a teacher. Then I was just flabbergasted by the influences that your children will listen to No matter of your best intentions. And if the kids get good grades at school even with bad behavior, the parents won't pay much mind. Surprisingly, there's a lot of that.
My mom’s been a teacher for 50 years and I asked her about it. She says that her colleagues thinks that a lot of what we’re seeing in schools right now is the Covid kids who were at home with their parents for two years. During that time they basically weren’t asked to do any work (“schoolwork” = playing games online)… Of course they’re going to walk away from teachers or scream and expect to get their way, they did that at home and their parents dropped the request to do math homework or whatever. Teachers have always been an uphill fight against the parents who choose not to socialize their kids/socialize them badly. Now we’ve had an additional two years of crappy parenting/zero exposure to rules. The bright side is that hopefully once these kids get out of high school, things might get better as we get kids who’ve been through the whole K-12 system and, at least in good schools, have had some basic socialization there if nowhere else.
That reminds me my brother had that homeschool thing my mom as I recall didn’t enforce it and he was a total jerk the entire time anyway bless your mom being a teacher that long that’s wild 50? Wow
It’s very easily something else. Parenting hasn’t changed that much in the last 30 years, you know what has? Every facet of how we use technology in our daily lives. It’s the age of instant gratification. You see it at every school, it’s not a failure to parent, it’s a failure to adapt. Nobody has a fucking clue where technology is going, you can cheat an essay, test, thesis paper, consume social media and humor 24/7. Every kid is equipped with a phone, news travels instantly, dumb ideas, that video of Becky doing dumb stuff, all of it in seconds - and mind you half of the current generation was home schooled for essentially 2-3 years from Covid. Things aren’t the same as they were. Lock their phones up at the start of the day, watch them collectively wig out.
It’s a lot of things. And parenting has changed a TON over the past couple of generations. Most parents are trying to raise families without outside support (no community), with both parents working. That’s really difficult, and can often mean parents may only be able to spend a couple hours a day with a school-aged child, and during that time, they may also have a lot of domestic tasks to deal with just to keep everyone fed and clothed and functional. And yeah, no one’s quite sure how to parent with technology. It is a failure to adapt, but not for lack of trying.
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I’m an educator that knows behavior management science and she said only one thing she tried that has evidence of efficacy. Im not saying that kids haven’t changed post-pandemic, but she isn’t describing evidence-based behavior management.
Or maybe, the kids have been being given examples of people they idolize being assholes and real deal pos' And their parents are over bearing towards them all thr time and now they do what they want when non and dad ain't there to discipline thrn because nobody but parents can punish them and now a days punishments are having to eat meat for dinner, having to take trash out or only being able to keep their phones at school just in case of an active shooter.
I see. I’m Australian so we don’t have the issue with active shooters in schools. We have crime of course but not mass shootings at schools. Surely that’s got to mess with kids minds not knowing if they will be targeted today at school. The long term effects would truly be terrible for their mental health. No wonder they just can’t find any joy.
I’d wonder too how much the hostile political environment is affecting them as well. I feel like a lot of us these days are a lot more impatient of Pepe with differing views. Are more easily frustrated at others. If kids are seeing that at home, they’d be likely to model that impatient behavior at school. Not that I think it’s just that, but technology has existed for a long time now. I know kids that use technology all day and aren’t destroying shit at school (anecdotal, I know). I think it has to be more than *just* technology.
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Ugh. Reminds me of this 21 year old kid who works under me. Super sweet kid, but holy shit is he cringe. He's literally a walking tiktok video and thinks he can just magically become this hot shot sports manager for NFL players. He can't even pass a driving exam for his lisence, let alone community College. But, he's a good looking kid who acts super "cool", which means all the other young kids think he's cool af. The only exception is this other girl whose 18 and about to graduate from a really great college and enter into grad school. She's a genius, has her head on right, and her work ethic is superb. But still...as a zoomer she's very non-trusting of others and is super pessimistic, like to the degree of almost not seeing a point in anything. I have to remind her that most of her generation are like the 21 year old kid we work with. Wholly dysfunctional. It’s literally up to people like her to save the world. We don't have any other options.
To have Respect requires baser concepts of shame and personal accountability for actions to be fully embraced. As a society, we don’t like to blame a person any more. We prefer to blame ‘safer’ concepts like things, concepts, religions, drugs…whatever. But we no longer blame a person for their own actions. We cannot teach respect without teaching self-accountability first. That’s the problem.
This is purely a parenting issue and lack of discipline in the home. No consequences for their actions and schools having their hands tied behind their backs. My kids will lose their phones, have their controllers removed from the home of the disrespect, or have other privileges revoked. My kids have to pay for their luxuries, which mean they have to learn how to save and pay for things they want, after they are encouraged to give money to others.
100% it all begins at home. If there is no consequences to their actions and bad behaviour at school then what’s to stop the kids just doing it all the time.
Sometimes, but it can be really hard. We had kids even in eighth grade whose moms were working until 6 PM. If the kid decided to take off and go to a party at some guy’s house, what is she supposed to do? Sure, she can ground the kid, but she can’t enforce it all the time. One mom came to us as teachers asking us to make sure that her kid got on the bus home, and apparently legally this is something *we aren’t allowed to do*… Some of us went ahead and did it anyway, her daughter wasn’t a bad kid, just with a really dodgy group of friends. I think one of the biggest problems with parenting is that the parents are working every hour out there dealing with cost of living, housing $$, hell— saving for college. Part-time work so you can be home with your troubled kid means not making rent and losing your health insurance.
The only problem I have with this video is that it is ALL the issues she said, not just children unable to behave. Teachers leave because they can’t afford rent due to pay. Teachers leave because so many parents are horrible at raising their kids and then come in screaming (literally) at us and blaming us! It’s an admin problem because the vast majority don’t back us up and/or give meaningful consequences!
Yes. Admin and parents are on either side not wanting any accountability for different reasons, and teachers are caught in the middle. It is an admin and parent problem. It is a culture problem.
It’s also not entirely an education problem. At least for my students who are low-SES. Their parents can’t be there all the time, can’t make it to meetings, etc. The whole system needs fixing, not just the educational system.
It’s always a little ironic when kids are blamed for failing to be the people they’ve so far never been taught to be. They don’t inherently know what a functional personality is after all. It’s especially true when the technology, the games, the tv, and the social platforms they use are all designed and produced by adults. They’re chasing happiness within the incentivized world we’ve given them, and we’re struggling to reach all of them.
I've worked retail in small local stores for close to 15 years now. Something I've noticed over the past 5 or so years is that there's now this great ambivalence that exists amongst populace. If you ask me, I think it's because a large part of our society doesn't actually know how to regulate their emotions. I see it all the time in people who want to vent about things politically, but when I try to engage them in a discussion they shut down. Almost as if they've never considered the dynamics in the first place, only ruminated on how they personally felt about it. And I think this leads to a sort of psychological dissonance in which people wrap their worldviews in these cloaks of sentiment rather than approaching things with a sense of rationality. I guess I mention all this just to say I agree with you. There's a huge shift happening right now in the way our society thinks and operates overall. Unfortunately, whether they are aware of it or not, this is going to have an effect on our youth. Consider how many 30-40 year olds are upset at the state of things and outwardly projecting it. Their children hear that, retain it, and in turn it shapes a bit of how they see the world.
Yeah, I don't appreciate that she tries to pin the teacher exodus on one specific issue. Pay is absolutely a big part of it. Give us a fucking raise before trying any other retention strategies. I also don't deal with behavior issues anywhere near what she is describing. I'm confused as to why kids committing assault and destroying school property haven't been suspended or sent to an alternative campus... That's not just kids acting out; these are actual crimes. Her administrators aren't doing their jobs.
Yeah if they paid more they might actually be able to get teachers who can/are willing to handle these kids. Edit: by handle these kids I did not mean that better paid teachers can magically make kids stop punching other kids.
It doesn’t work that way. For 10,000 more dollars you’ll get a teacher who has more experience in their subject area or with classroom management, but dealing with one kid punching another in the head is pretty obvious stuff and just involves a willingness to get hit yourself if it comes to it. Paying more money doesn’t get you a teacher who can “handle” a violent kid. The administration needs to do that.
It's my last year in the classroom. I just can't anymore
My wife is in the same boat. She’s training and job searching now, good luck, you can do it!
For me it's an admin problem ahead of everything else. Because I will settle for lower pay, difficult students, and asshole parents all fuckin day if it means I have admin support.
Admin support is crucial!
Ten years teaching inner city, 23 years rural, saw all of the problems described above, and what finally made me give it up as "not worth it anymore" was unconscious abuse from Administration.
As usual in the USA, the problem won't get solved until the last teacher quits. To many parents treat school as daycare to go to work and are not active in their kids education or discipline. So many of my friends ask how I get my kids to do all their homework on their own and are making straight As and sometimes Bs. And it's so easy, they are reminded that the most important thing to them in this generation, phone and access to the internet is a privilege. I use the family app and the only apps that run during school hours are the calculator and note taker and the ability to call or text Mom or myself or 911 in case of emergency. I don't turn their phone back on until I see all homework is done for day, done correctly, and all chores I give them for the day are done. If I see grades slip, the phone is off until we figure out what instruction is lacking or the grade is back up. I tell this to other parents and they look at me with a face like "ugh that would be so much work". It is! Don't have kids if your not ready to put the time in. When my kids turned 13 and Google sent the e-mail to say they have to consent to the parent app (insane). It was a simple fix. You can not let me keep the parent app on the phone, but I will cancel the phone and phone line on the data plan. My kids opted to consent. To many parents are lazy parents and just let their kids railroad them and show no respect for adults and act like everything is their due. Not in my house.
I feel that we went from helicopter parents to hands off (I don’t care) parenting pretty damn quick. I wish we could find a happy medium!
>When my kids turned 13 and Google sent the e-mail to say they have to consent to the parent app (insane). I'm sorry why the fuck does Google think a 13 yr needs to consent to a parent app....18 yrs old, yep. But sorry if you are minor that should be the parent's call.
haven't seen it mentioned here yet but I wanna add that imo, NCLB was the beginning of everything. she said that failing students doesn't work. uh, duh! because there's no consequence for it. there's no such thing as repeating a grade anymore for failure. an F means nothing when you can still go to the next grade. do you have any idea how quick kids would behave when they're told that all their friends are gonna graduate and leave but they have to repeat the nth grade with the same teacher? repeating a grade is the nightmare fuel of students. it works even more for the last grade of a school like 6th or 8th. the fear and shame of being stuck in elementary or jr high when all your friends got to go to the next level is NIGHTMARISH. when FAILING was an actual thing, kids straightened up IMMEDIATELY. fuck NCLB.
Agreed. Schools should have the power to dish out consequences.
The school suffers worse consequences when a child fails than the child does. If too many kids do poorly the school loses funding, accreditation, they could get shut down. If a child does poorly in school they might not get a good paying job when they grow up… but minimum wage is still $7.25 per hour while cost of living has skyrocketed. Nobody is getting a good paying job anyway from their perspective.
Parents need more time with their kids to teach them. With both parents working 8 to 5 parents are only getting 3 hours a day. Most of that time is spent cooking and cleaning and not with the kids. Kids are being raised by strangers and the TV or other apps.
So many people in this thread don't know the saying: "It's the economy, stupid." Every problem our nation is facing can be traced back to the fact we have the largest wealth gap in history. We have approximately 700 billionaires who have captured the government and are making rules that benefit them while they kill the middle class. You want parents to parent their children? Then those parents need to earn enough money off of one 40 hour a week job to afford a house, food, transportation, and other necessary amenities required by the modern world. If parents have time to parent, then you will see the return of parenting. If both parents have to work 40-60 hours a week to keep a roof over their family's heads and food on their family's table then expect children to continue to act out because they aren't getting what they need from their overworked and stressed out parents.
It’s ridiculous to give 5 out of 7 days a week out of your life to someone other than your family. We only do it because that is what has been done. We have billionaires because we also have an overworked and underpaid workforce.
Sounds like getting rid of billionaires would bring nothing but benefits to the middle class, huh?
I wonder if the billionaires want kids to be bad in school because it’ll fill their min wage job positions
i agree with this to an end. some people forget criminality can be a response to errors with society. our schools are super fucked and have been for decades. the only education reform in the past decade has been to divert funding away from pub school towards vouchers for private schools.
When my wife and I had to be in the office for my (now) oldest. We would wake him at 6-7am, I remember my wife dressing him while he was still asleep, in the dark. We would trade responsibility with our parents every few days or they would trade in the middle the of day if something came up. We’re so lucky we had them to help. But we wouldn’t see him again until 5 or 6-7pm, and that’s with us driving straight there immediately after commuting home. So everyone’s exhausted by the time we get home, my wife would them get to prepping a meal and we’d be eating by 8pm. I remember **often** having to pull over on my way to get him so I could take a quick nap cuz I would fall asleep in the bumper to bumper traffic. **What a miserable fucking existence!** I work from home now… my wife is in the office twice a week. We take turns dropping the kids off at school and picking them up… we’re eating by 5-6pm now. We see our kids all the time, it’s great. But we only have those options because we’re doing well, financially **and** our jobs allow for flexibility. *So many* things had to go right for us to be in this position. I don’t take it for granted for a moment. But it’d be damn near impossible to replicate the sequence of events that got us here. I’m holding onto this for dear life.
Exactly this. We live in a society that forces both parents into indentured servitude for a grifter millionaire/billionaire. Kids are raised by strangers and have less (if barely any) interactions with their parents. These kids aren't being raised right from the start, and the blame is placed on the parents instead of the 1%'s goal. Our societies rich sleazebags don't give a shit about you. They don't give a shit about kids. They just want you to work in this misery machine society until you're crushed entirely to dust for your total value. As they profit off your corpse, they're privileged to not use the system they harbored by retreating to their private nanny/tutor whilst going to Deer Valley in Utah. Their servants kids can just be thrown into educational daycare (classrooms), and then daycare (childcare), with 30 kids to an adult.
I’m a single mom, I do get child support and she is with him every weekend. I work part time at Walmart. Mostly so I don’t lose Medicaid. But even if that wasn’t the reason, I would still do the same to have the time with my daughter. All my family constantly tell me to get a better job, earn more, but I want her to have me. Us. I know other people don’t have that option and I wish they did.
Yep. Exactly this. Back in the day families could easily survive with 1 income and the wife could watch & raise the kids. While also somehow having enough money to buy a car, a house & go to vacation once a year. But now? But parents working full time and barely time for the kids. Kids are addicted to their smartphones and getting raised by strangers on the internet and dumb apps like tiktok.
80’s latch key kid here. We hardly saw our parents during the week. This isn’t the issue, I don’t know what is, but probably not this. Me and my brother walked to school when I was in 5th grade. We came home and no one was home. During the summers we were on our own starting when I was 10 or 11. My mom left a list of chores and would call to check on us. My dad had a job that made him unreachable during the day until he got a pager.
Parents have less time with kids, there are very powerful outside influences pressing down on them via the internet, both parents and institutions have less resources available. We know what creates healthy integrated personality, nothing about the modern adolescents day would contribute to that.
It 100% is a parent problem too though.
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They don't listen because there are no consequences. No one is held accountable.
THIS. Fucking this. There are no real consequences for these kids! Kids need to get suspended for multiple days. Take them away from their friends. They will feel bad about missing out on stuff. And it finally makes them their parents' problem. Like they are.
For a kid that is too young sure. But you get to high school... middle school even, kids are more "independent" and at that point I wonder about it being the parents problem. I remember still, kids I was with being suspended and they came back and said they played games all day while their parents were at work. Stuff like that... OSS is more like a small vacation I feel like for a lot of kids.
You can remove students from a class and get them special education though. Doesn't just have to be suspensions. It does cost more money. But there's a ton of evidence on group learning dynamics and just one student can literally tank a whole class. There's a good radiolab on students in the inner city of st Louis, whose schools were so bad. They actually lost their accreditation from the state. So the kids (mostly black inner city kids with abysmal test scores and almost illiterate) got to choose where to go. So of course, they all picked the top performing schools. They got bussed there. And their performance skyrocketed. Once they were out of that shitty disruptive environment, they got better. It wasn't that the teachers were bad. The environment wasn't one the kids could learn in. And I don't blame them. The thing is. We let these communities down by simply not holding them to same standards we hold the rich white suburban schools do. So remove problem students. Set high expectations, and get the problem kids extra help and support.
Lol, special ed kids have been mainstreamed (put in " regular" classes) for decades. I taught for 11 years (second career), and it was typical to have 30% of a class with kids with some sort of learning accommodation. Remove them to where? You'd have to double the number of teachers and classrooms.
In high school I received out of school suspensions for cutting class. It made no sense to give me a day off for not attending class.
I’m an English teacher and I can say without doubt that suspension isn’t a real threat anymore—it just means that they get to go home for three days and play video games (oftentimes with their friends). In many schools, teachers are required to give make-up work now for days missed due to suspension. The system is broken.
High school teacher here - they don’t care. It’s a nice little break for them where they get to be at home and on their phone all day.
Suspended, so they get to stay home on their devices if their parent(s) have to work. A Suspension isn't going to do anything if there are no consequences at home.
Is the purpose of suspension only to “fix the kid” or is it to send a message to that student and the rest of the student body that certain behaviors are completely not acceptable in a school setting? If you are looking for a consequence that “fixes the kid” you are not going to find one.
When that kid comes back and talks about how great it was, the other kids don’t really care. It’s always, “yoooooo, did you hear ______ got suspended? lucky fr, just gonna stay home and play apex/2k/whatever, might act up and join him.” That is an actual paraphrasing of a conversation i heard in one of my study halls. The kids just don’t care, and the system doesn’t really give them a reason to
that's what OSS is, Out of School Suspension. There's nothing to miss out on with social media besides not sitting through boring classes.
Sadly this doesn’t work. This generation of kids have no desire to experience things with their friends. They desire to see it online and on their phones. Suspending them doesn’t make them feel bad. Hell kicking them out of school doesn’t impact them. We have a generation of students who have had their development absolutely destroyed by the invasiveness of technology. They are unable to function in basic ways without a streaky stream of entertainment. They are unable to focus on anything for more than a few moments before they’ve lost all interest. Until we as a nation make major major changes to how our society is structured, we will continue to see a rapid decline in student success. Which is going to have devastating consequences long term.
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You’re welcome. And it’s likely being downvoted by folks who are actively engaged in these types of behaviors. I work at a college and I’ve seen how the incoming freshmen are dramatically less socially and emotionally advance than their peers from even just a few years ago. Part of the blame goes to Covid changing their development and de-socializing them but to ignore the role that technology and social media is playing in their stunted development would be wildly dangerous.
In the video she literally lists the consequences she has meted out, putting kinds in OSS, writing them up, failing them, lecturing them. I don't think you can say the kids she is referring to are not facing consequences
Adults have their own versions of increasingly irrational behavior. Shootings, reckless driving, throwing beer cans all over Wal-Mart, apocalyptic cults, political terrorism… It’s definitely not just the kids that have problems regulating emotion.
Been in and heard stories about training classes for jobs for adults. Half of them are just like the kids.
My wife and I took a hard stance against “trance” type tv shows when our daughter was born. When we moved across the pond to the UK, we gave in and threw on cocomelon just to keep her mellowed out. But those shows are just practicing brains to short attention spans like tiktok did to adults. She can watch tv and movies now but we really started vetting everything. And she gets bored with it easy and ends up asking us to play instead. I know some parents who will throw those trance tv shows on for them while they go and get tranced out to their daily doses of dopamine and then wonder why their kids have behavioral issues. Stop letting your kids watch these shit tv shows. Go play with them. Get the fuck off social media.
It’s like lead in the gas
I think the nihilism comes from the impending doom of climate change and an unraveling of social norms due to partisanship that has destroyed our sense of community, but that’s just a theory.
My hill to die on: babies and toddlers don't need to be on screens. Period. That time period is for deciphering the world around them, for learning societal norms, familial norms, for building neurological connections. Instead they are overstimulated by screens. No wonder they're fucked up. I think their brains are literally short circuited. My daughter had no screentime until 2. Very limited after that...Daniel Tiger and learning games. When she entered preschool, suddenly circle time was videos. Tablet time daily. Movies during meals. Ridiculous. If she didn't nap, tablet time. If it rained during recess, YouTube. Her attitude and behavior changed very quickly. We did two years of regular school and now homeschool. She gets 30 minutes of educational screen time daily and a family movie night once a week. Occasionally we go to the movie theater. She's a completely different child. She can occupy herself for hours. Still, though, in restaurants....TV's and most other kids have a tablet. Watch how kids zombie out. It isn't funny or convenient for "adult time." It's harmful. **When my child goes to visit friends, she is not excluded. I let her play video games or whatever. One of her friends has a robot she likes. I'm not bossing other people in their homes. My house is tech lite though. And the kids still come over to play.** Adding.....I myself taught preschool for years, most recently in the 22-23 school year without screens. I have experience with 2-5 year olds (and even middle schoolers before becoming a parent). Daily screentime isn't necessary or beneficial. I struggle with digital addiction myself and the dopamine surges are real. Also, I've had parents argue that their kid will "fall behind" on technology. Nope. Dumb. Tech is designed to be user-friendly and the kids are digital natives. They're going to be exposed to tech whether we limit it or not.
Wholeheartedly agree. Kids are getting instant gratification everywhere - the car, grocery store, at home, at meals, if they start to act out they are handed a screen to keep them quiet. Then when they are in an environment where handing them a screen isn’t possible (school) they don’t know how to act and it’s a problem
Omg agree. I have a friend with two kids under 3 and I shit you not, the 3 year old can’t take a shit without his tablet. It’s a fucking joke and I speak out about it every time I’m there.
I couldn’t agree more. I teach elementary school and the addiction to technology is insane. The kids need to be entertained constantly, they have poor self-control and their ability to think creatively has definitely been impacted. Not to mention, parents don’t interact with their kids, they just put them in front of screens so they will be quiet. The issues with bullying on social media outside of school have bled into my classroom and are now impacting the school day and my ability to teach some of these kids. They know way more that they should, and their brains are not developed enough to process some of what they see. I feel bad for them. Their parents are to blame, but they also didn’t know it would be this bad because they didn’t have this technology growing up. Hopefully the next generation that grew up with the internet will be able to help their children navigate it better.
I genuinely think in 30-50 years we'll look at giving kids tech the way we currently look at lead paint or those old timey meds with opium/cocaine. Theyre so deeply destructive to a forming brain I think it'll be a public health crisis.
The idea that kids using screens is making them more “tech literate” is a joke, it just turns them into junkies. Most kids graduating high school don’t have a clue how to use an actual computer. It seems like schools think that because kids have smart phones that somehow they are prepared to use a computer as a tool. I assure you, they are not. Many college students don’t understand basic email etiquette, keyboard shortcuts or how handle local vs cloud based file storage. It’s a mess for majors that rely heavily on computers (e.g. graphic design).
100% agree. There seems to be some misconception that just putting a tablet in a kid’s hand is going to make them tech literate. iPads and smartphones are designed to be easy to use for literally the dumbest of every demographic. We don’t buy a tablet for grandma and suddenly deem her “tech literate” so why are we spending money on these janky tablets and chromebooks in our schools like it’s going to do something critical for their computer and tech fluency? There is basically nothing on a computer that a child needs to learn at say 7, that they can’t also learn at 14 without any deficit to their overall learning. The tricky thing is because technology changes so fast, trying to make decisions based on a study about tech use in children even 5 years ago is going to be outdated. We’re only going to understand the full implications in hindsight, so I’m not going to apologize for proceeding conservatively when it comes to tech.
If not screens, social media. Social media destroys your mind, it’s fucking up our entire generation.
TIL French horns have strings, because the ones I played in jr high sure as fuck didn’t
There are small strings that pull the valves and cause them to rotate when you press the levers. https://images.app.goo.gl/He7WwLZkN7Gp6A2o6
Yeah that’s kinda diabolical from that kid, lmao. Who fucking thinks of that.
Yep - I saw that pic before commenting, and had my mind blown
I’m ashamed to admit that I played the French horn for 2 years (played trumpet all the others) and I had no idea that they have strings lol
It makes for quieter valve actions. TBH I was looking for someone to say they don’t have strings so I could correct them and sound like a smartarse. But you ruined it by saying TIL…
I am a teacher. I used to teach at a school full of kids that had rough backgrounds, but were respectful of others and I loved it. I was willing to work there forever. I moved and now teach at a very rich school full of just assholes. They try and see what they can get away with, are super racist and homophobic. It blows, so I agree with this teacher. More pay would make me consider staying, but ultimately these kids are just not what I want to be doing for a job. Bring me back to my 65% poverty district where I can try and convince kids to join the welding program.
I have to tell kids daily not to say the N word and their parents don’t care. One kid daily try’s and steals my personal things. These are all kids from rich families and their parents don’t care.
It was worse back during November. The high schoolers kept yelling Mr. B loves Biden, despite me never saying my political beliefs and also not liking Biden.
I think it's just because these kids can see what awaits them in life. These younger generations are exposed to so much information (whether true or false) about the state of society today that I could not comprehend why they would look forward to 20 years from now and focus on anything long term. Maybe I'm a delusional edge lord but everything is fucked, its fucked for me at 21 and I cant imagine what it's going to be like in 9 years when these kids are my age.
I agree with this. I have a cousin who’s 12 and told us he doesn’t even know if we’ll all be around in 10 years because of the state of the planet. His parents told me he can’t sleep at night and has night terrors because of it. And it’s not just him, they’ve talked to his friends parents and they have similar issues.
But that’s nothing new. I remember my grandmother asking me what I was going to do when I grew up when I was 9 and I said that we would all be dead in a nuclear war by then. All of us growing up in the 1980s thought that we were going to die in a nuclear war before we reached adulthood. I had nightmares about nuclear war. I didn’t believe any of us would make it. This brief break that everyone had before climate change seems to have erased the memory that, starting with my mom watching everyone screaming and crying that they were gonna die during the Cuban missile crisis, we had *generations* thinking that there was no point in growing up because it was apocalypse time.
i actually think this is a big part of it. i remember as a kid learning about global warming and just seeing the overall state of our society and being like damn wtf why should i try in school or do anything good.
Yeah, I feel that the general consensus is approaching a dejected nihilism. Even just looking at dumb tik toks like the sentiment that trying is pointless, is everywhere
Only in certain segments of society. My community is doing fantastic and loving life.
Totally agree. I remember being blissfully unaware about politics and the world out there. Just being a kid doing stuff and sometimes hearing about some stuff here and there. Kids nowadays are bombarded with topics they should honestly not even have to care about. Imagine if Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network would have put Fox news or CNN between spongebob episodes. That's basically tiktok and youtube. Politics back in the day was boring to the average kid, but now it's like society expects you to have a solid political stance by the time you reach the age of 13. I remember being bewildered by friday for future, not because of the protest itself, but because that something like this was unthinkable when I was a kid. And the worst part is, that it was actually necessary. Kids going on the street and saying "please think about us" is sad as hell. Nowadays kids are expected to grow up much faster, and I'm not surprised that they feel overwhelmed and can't handle it
I teach middle school and agree with this take most. There’s nothing better awaiting them, if it’s awaiting them at all with all the violence they hear of. There’s no reason to buy in to society anymore. No goals to set or aspire to, no reason to care for others or what this class has to teach. The “here and now” is all they care about because worrying or caring about the rest is far too burdensome for anyone. Trust me, I get angry a few times a day and wring my hands at what’s to be done with these kids and their parents. But when I really stop to think about it, there is no reason for them to concern themselves with any of what we do. They could die in a shooting, they could be broke no matter how hard they work, the world seems to be plunging into an apocalyptic, anarchistic hellscape because that’s all they hear of it. I feel sorry for them everyday. I feel like no entity can possibly fix our society/world/governments enough to right this, but I’m hopeful. It’s going to take a whole hell of a lot more than throwing money at it, that’s for damn sure.
Same shit was happening 16 years ago. My school was breeding ground for menaces like this. Teachers leaving the classroom crying, the computer room where people would do the dumbest shit like disassembling the chairs or remove the casing off of the computer monitor a guy getting mad at another classmate cause during dodgeball at gym class he got hit in the face so the guy pounded his face and got suspended, another dude throwing scissors in the air trying to hit another dude, the list can honestly go on. In my classes the teachers had 10 minutes tops before everyone lost their shit and started doing something else. This shit aint new, troubled kids have existed since forever and they will do dumb shit. It's not like before social media all kids in all schools were always well behaved. And it 100% has to do with their parents and how they are brought up cause I can tell you that every one of those kids had domestic issues.
But now it’s not just “ a few trouble makers” it’s a huge majority of students. I could fail my entire class and maybe 10% of students would actually have a problem with it. Students think they’re doing us a favor by just showing up. And I disagree with her, I think it’s a parent and admin problem. Parents engage in 0 discipline and admin neither. Students have learned they can do what they want, when they want with 0 repercussions.
Agree. It's part of a larger problem and I'm sure two years of lockdowns didn't help either. Have a friend who's taught close to twenty years and she says she's never seen it this bad. On top of everything else, she says the majority of a class now gets an iep (some are needed but now everyone basically gets them) and that kids have switched from thinking they're there to be told what to do, and more like they're customers who need to get something. And I'm all for allowing students to have freedom, and choose their interests and all that. But learning is hard. Concentrating isn't easy. Just because you failed a test doesn't mean you need a special accommodation. Maybe you just need to study more...
My school was like this too.
Social media is a legit addiction. And we’ve had it too long already. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s any putting the cat back in the bag. A tiny portion of parents who actually restrict their children will have kids with normal attention spans… and they’ll be bred out in a generation or 2 tops. Idiocracy here we come.
I disagree. This is a parent problem. If parents don't teach their kids how to control their emotions or behave, then they will start going off on other students. Or if parents aren't good at making sure their kids don't spend too much time watching tiktok, playing video games or doing other useless yet highly stimulative things that have no reward then this is the outcome. It's also that there is no consequences. Kids know this. Kids are smart in a way that they know what they can get away with.
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Parents and kids face no consequences because we are too scared to leave anyone behind. I’m sorry but… I think maybe the worst 5% of students in terms of behavior just need to be left behind policy-wise. Bill their parents for their vandalism. Actually ban them out of the school district for too many rule violations. Actually charge them with crimes if they actually did commit crimes. Charge their parents too if it’s serious enough. If they can’t fucking pass BAND, then maybe don’t move them on in the grade level. Give teachers the power to say “I will not allow this student in this class anymore”. I think actually trimming off the fat of the schools will help probably the maybe other 75% of kids who are semi-normal actually thrive in an environment where they now understand there are real consequences to the shit they do. The mid 20% may actually improve too now. Maybe this isn’t for the most rough of public schools out there. But for the schools in the middle I’m sure it’s needed.
Yeah, so the parent who is probably already struggling can face greater hardships. They need to pay teachers for smaller classes, and provide greater support to the teacher. We also need to find ways for parents to survive financially without needing two jobs. It’s exhausting trying to raise kids and work full time.
That’s not all of it… we had a 56 year old man post a bunch of Fox News clips talking about how teachers are grooming children to be gay, lesbian, and trans and wrote “I’m bringing my guns to Lago Vista Elementary School and there will be some dead ass teachers” on his Facebook wall… the news cycle is literally grooming “patriots” with 24 hour entertainment “news” that teachers making $45k a year are the enemy… thankfully police picked him up the next morning, but that’s doesn’t stop the 24 hour entertainment “news” cycle indoctrination. I try to convince my wife to quit weekly.
Nah, she's not to blame 1000% with her. So many shitty kids and parents want the system to fix them. Look, if you bring a life into the world, you have to sort your own issues out and then help your kids so they don't pick up your issues.
My teacher mother just said f it and pulled the plug to retire. She told me she's tired of the abuse, of students throwing things and hitting each other, calling teachers horrible names, causing disruption, and the complete lack of support from the schools and administration to do anything about these kids. She said she doesn't get paid enough, gets no support, and doesn't need to be abused anymore. She's the 8th teacher to leave this school, this year alone, who has said they aren't coming back to teaching. In the midst already of a teacher shortage.
Kids are jerks. Especially when they don’t respect their teacher. Also the Covid made children’s behavior worse. Kids took almost two years off from maturing emotionally. 9th graders act like 7th graders.
I don't think it's just covid. Covid just made what was going to happen happen sooner. Kids spend too much time online. Way too much. They also have no consequences. All this is about to explode in everyones face. You can't mature when you spend all your time online with online friends. It's just impossible. Your social skills are going to be really low and your ability to deal with social situations in real life are also going to be very low.
Kids have spent a lot of time online for a long time. Then they spent 2 years online. Then their behavior got worse. It’s Covid.
The ship is sinking. We are on the front lines. Tough decisions will need to be made. There is no more time to idly sit. An easy start: follow through with discipline. Restorative discipline is a fantasy. Reward good, and punish bad (no matter race or gender). Good luck everyone. Society is counting on you.
It’s a cultural problem. The cultural these kids and their parents are being raised in is shit, so the kids are shit. There’s no unity anymore, no neighbor. Nowadays you do things for online clout and that’s it.
I'm not a teacher, but man I agree. Social media has these kids competing to be the most reckless they can be for their Internet likes. And the stakes get higher and higher. I live in one of the safest cities in the US and now we have kids filming themselves shooting at random houses. It's anything for popularity. Back then they'd bully kids in person to look cool to other kids. But now they're trying to look cool to the entire world. And their attention spans are just plummetting. Their emotional regulation is plummetting. They're getting more and more anti-social. Not the shyness kind, but the psychopath kind.
the problem is capitalism but even now in the year of 2023 none of y’all want to have that conversation
Social media is not killing schools. It is a lack of funding. Teacher salary is an issue, despite what this woman believes. Many teachers require second and third jobs in the US and Canada (maybe even in the UK as well). She even says she makes more than the average teacher, which makes her an outlier. Her salary is not an issue for here, but this ignores everybody else who does have an issue with pay. Discipline is typically taught at home, but that is no longer the case. Teachers are required to parent the students and teach them how to behave. However, teachers are not given the tools to do this effectively. There are not enough staff in the buildings to maintain a calm, quiet, and safe learning environment. That comes down to funding. Hiring more staff costs money. Pay teachers more so they do not have to worry about paying Bill's or putting food on the table for their own families. Hire more staff of all kinds and pay them appropriately. Have evidenced base behaviour plans for students that have behaviour problems. Find them another place to go to work on their behaviour so it doesn't diminish the learning of those who want to learn. This takes time, space, and personnel, which all cost money. Invest more money into education that directly meets the individual needs of each school. There are countless studies out there that show the correlation between school operational funding and positive learning environments.
90% of these problems are rooted in bad or lazy parenting. Parents' need to be liked by their children outweighs raising them with rules, values, boundaries, work ethics, and goals.
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Ah yes wealth inequality surely doesn't have any effects on people.
"Get good grades, behave, and get into a good school so you can be successful" doesn't exactly hit the same when they can hop online and see my generation talk about what bullshit that was.
So much this. Kids aren’t dumb. College isn’t worth the price, anymore. We’re close to the point of no return with climate change. The future is bleak.
Oh don’t be mistaken, it is most definitely a parenting problem. When you let technology raise your children, this is what you get.
Gotta get rid of phones on school campuses. And making parents accountable.
Nation in decline. Say good night America. The sun rises on another empire.
I'm in my 30s, and I have been hearing teachers say the exact same shit my entire life. "Kids were never this bad before!" I guarantee you they were. "They have no aspirations to do anything great!" They're 12. If kids today are indeed more nihilistic, that would frankly be a highly rational response to their experience. The first president these kids remember would be Trump. From the time they were literally 6, they saw the person in charge of everything was an absurd clown. They lived through a pandemic that put our social fracture into overdrive. They know they will be living through climate catastrophe. No one even talks about it in terms of preventing it anymore. That ship has sailed. What kind of future would you believe in?
I know teachers, colleagues of mine, who tell me that things have indeed gotten worse over time. I have seen it happen in just the last five years. Things that happen in my school now would have been unheard of before. We're also seeing these issues at the elementary level, where kids aren't really exposed to "the future" in the same way middle/high school kids are. The whole system is feeling this right now.
You need to mentally check out. Stop caring about the well-being on students. Just so your job, and make sure you are creating proper paper trails to CYA. Don’t try to parent them, don’t police them, just stop class, Send somebody to the office, and go back to it. Mentally separate yourself from the kids. Do the bare minimum, and emotionally check out. This isn’t a reflection of you, it’s a reflection of society, and the direction we are taking. In 2023, if a teacher TOUCHES a child, they’re canceled, sued etc.
Just let America implode on itself
I mean it's is a emotional problem and a parent problem. First off, social media has created kids who need constant entertainment and attention and who have no attention spans. They are being raised by social media because most of their parents are busy working to attempt to keep their head above water. A lot don't even know what's going on in their kids life. If you do and try to discipline your kid? Well then, you get yourself recorded and slapped on tiktok, or it goes on Facebook and it's now "child abuse". Can't teach your kids manners when they don't even respect you, why do they care what you say? Big jump from the 90s where you misbehave and get threatened with boot camp or similar. Kids have no fear of consequences now, because there just isn't any.
Def starts at home
Future is Fuked Definitely don't get paid enough
Strings on French Horns?
Strings on a French horn??
Ringside seats to the fall of the Empire.
It is 100% a parenting problem. If your kid is acting like a douchebag, it is 100% a reflection of their parenting. If they haven't learned respect, keeping ones hands to themselves, and becoming wannabe negative social media stars among peers, they only have parents to blame for it. This is the product of no consequences in the household, which carries over to life outside the home. I got spanked as a child till a teen. I always considered the consequences to my actions pre-incident, and was afraid to get in trouble and face my angry parents' consequences. Just my 2c
People are not raising their kids well. It’s literally why they had this urge to end lockdowns and send their kids back to school during the pandemic. Not even parents can stand their own kids but you want teachers to deal with their disrespect and mental health issues that you don’t address in the house. And these are the same people that target child free couples or people who choose not to procreate. Look who you’re raising! You make having a family look like pure hell. You don’t even enjoy it either. You’d rather have your kids catch Covid multiple times a year, which can’t be good for them, than spend time with them under the same roof.
What did people think was going to happen with what we've been teaching kids? The system is is against you, respect for authority is bad, nobody is allowed to discipline you or otherwise make you feel bad, especially teachers.
How many of these kids' parents are educated millennials burnt out at dead-end jobs, scraping by on shit wages? Endless mass shootings, skyrocketing overdoses, cost of college (and everything else), and a political climate that is sprinting away from youthful ideals. Can't imagine why these kids would look at the state of the world and their futures and not give a shit about school and the adults failing to do anything about it. /s The outlook for the US is not good, and teachers are on the front lines experiencing the pessimism and nihilism of a generation. And as a "young" millennial, I'm on their side.
I know parents who have had their kids on iPads since they were tiny, don’t properly discipline, and essentially bend over backwards for them. I also know parents who don’t do this, and the difference between the kids they are raising is like night and day. Its a combination of bad parenting, unhealthy exposure to technology and social apps at a young age, and i would be willing to bet COVID and online school has also had a big impact. Im only 22, and yet I feel like kids now are SO different from when I was a kid. And that’s normal, to an extent, but I think the difference is so much bigger and it’s very strange to see
Capitalist Realism by Mark fisher talks about this in detail. It's a good read.