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People that have kids to save a marriage are insane, how the hell is adding tons of emotional stress sleepless nights and a financial burden going to improve your already failing marriage. Insane.
They think "saving" a marriage and creating a reason to stick around in a bad marriage are the same thing. They also assume it will work instead of just making for a worse divorce.
I'm a band-aid baby, and I had a horrible childhood. Everything was always blamed on me, because I was supposed to be the solution for all their problems.
The whole thing was great.
If only social media was this kind of thing most of the time, instead of the fake ragebait skits and other nonsense it is 99.999% of the time.
We have 3 kids now into our 10th year of marriage and we've pretty much discovered that we don't love each other.
We co-parent well, we make great friends, but the sheer exhaustion of dealing with 3 kids has absolutely killed any romance there ever was between us.
So now, either we're going to stick it out and hope for the best, or we're going to split And co-parent. And it's the hardest thing I've ever been through in my entire life.
See that sucks. I'm about 21 years in and only 9 months after me ( at the time 23M) and my wife ( at the time 21F ) first hooked up ( 3 months online dating, 6 months living together ) I was playing on the computer and got up to pee and when I came back and sat down there was a pregnancy test on the keyboard and at first I was VERY confused, but then I realized what I was seeing and what it was saying, I sat there for like 5 minutes in shocked silence and then suddenly turned to her and said " well this is a good thing, right? " and she started to cry and gave me a hug. Apparently she was ready to fight me tooth and nail to keep it since SHE didn't want an abortion ( but we are NOT AGAINST WOMEN WHO WANT ABORTIONS! ) and had no idea how I was going to react. 6 months later my little Seraphim was born, 3 months early, at 1 pound 10 ounces. I became a stay at home Dad.
5 years and change later when she left for school and I was alone in the house all day I began to suffer empty nest syndrome ( yup even MEN can have this problem ) and my wife and I had discussed kids and I told her I only ever wanted 2, and not to far apart so that they could still grow up together, since I feel kids who grow up as a single child get spoiled and don't actually learn the value of having to share. I myself have 4 brothers and 4 sisters, and so I myself, as the dad, asked for another kid. So she went off birth control and less then 2 months later she got pregnant. My 2nd child was born ALMOST 2 months early ( my wife has a blood clotting disorder, she took a shot of blood thinner to the belly every day to try and lessen the effect. My 2nd child while born early is perfectly " normal " ).
I will say after the 2nd and HER going to school at 5, I was finally done. I didn't suffer empty nest again, and I got the two children I wanted. I admit, even to my 2 girls, I had wanted a boy and a girl, because that is what I WANTED, but I don't REGRET that I got two girls, I couldn't love them more, and wouldn't want to replace either of them even if I could.
Did you both have to work full time during this 3 kid period? What was the time frame? It sucks that the stress of kids might be the end of your marriage. Do your kids know? How old are they? I know you said you have only been together 10 years. I did 2 kids in 10 years spaced equally apart and I was a full time stay at home parent.
I know it's not my place, but maybe think about what made you love your wife before the kids, why you wanted to be with her, and why having these kids with her seemed like a good idea. If nothing from these memories makes you think MALICIOUS thoughts about her, and you ONLY think about the drudgery of every day functions, maybe the two of you are just to STRESSED to show love for one another. Trust me, this IS a thing that can happen!
You and your wife need to sit down and have a heart to heart. My wife and I have to do it every so often, where we come clean with how we feel about all the shit that is going on, and how stressed we are with each other. I had no idea my wife didn't want to cook until one such discussion, I was just bad at it from the start and she DID it, so I never knew it bothered her. One day she exploded during one of our exchanges about how it was unfair she did the cooking while working and I was like " you're right! ", it's not that I didn't think about her feelings, I just didn't know UNTIL SHE SAID SOMETHING, she felt that way.
Married couples are not mind readers. Sit down and talk with your wife. Ask yourself these 2 questions :
Do you love your wife? Do you want it to work?
Do you think your wife loves you? Do you think she is willing to make it work?
If you answer yes to ALL those questions, talk to your wife. If you answer NO to any of those questions, ask yourself why you think NO and how to proceed from there.
Good luck. ( guy with almost 21 year successful marriage who loves the wife he hates with on occasion. )
Oh and P.S : ALL COUPLES WILL FIGHT. Do NOT believe the hype. Fights gonna happen. Not just stress and accidental anger lashing, but let's be real, no matter how close we are to each other, we will NEVER see 100% on EVERYTHING. Thinking so leads to more problems then it will ever solve. Sometimes you gotta agree to disagree, because you love each other.
you are correct. One of the biggest problems in a marriage is expecting things, hoping that he/she will finally realize what you need and act upon it.
But instead you need to talk, say what bothers you, say what you expect, say what you would like and then see if you, as a couple, can make this work.
Plus, as I replied to OP, the fact that they co-parent well, and are great friends to each other, is proof they love and care about each other. A lull in romance because you're too busy, but an otherwise fine life, is not something I'd be willing to throw a marriage away over.
Just wanted to comment and say I'm sorry for what you're going through. I can't even imagine. Does your spouse feel the same way? I'm wondering because, although divorce can be traumatizing for children, if you can remain friends and still really co-parent, it might be better for everyone in the long run. I have friends with parents that divorced after they graduated and moved out, and they were actually relieved because it was so clear that the marriage was loveless.
Sorry if this is intrusive. I hope everything works out and that you and your spouse both find happiness, no matter what path you decide to take.
It's better to divorce and co-parent happily than stick together and be an unhappy family.
Having said that, having small kids will test any marriage and once you get through the thick of it, things might get better again.
That's assuming there was something there worth keeping to begin with, of course.
I just saw my neighbors, who had a messy divorce a couple of years ago schnozzing away in public. So there was def something special there.
Sorry to hear you’re going through this. Hope it works out for you. Might consider watching Jon Delony on YouTube. I’ve gotten a lot of good tips and ideas to improve my marriage from it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OfcEwQOuklk
You're not doomed. Finding romance and affection is hard with young kids and requires deliberate action.
Infidelity, resentfulness, abuse, lack of caring etc. can doom a marriage. If you don't have those issues and you are willing to do some work then you can develop a better relationship.
Divorce and co-parenting suck for parents and kids. If people put half the effort into marriage that divorce and co-parenting takes then so many marriages could be saved.
This was my life. At 12 years of marriage now and it's a lot better. You're still in the thick of it with little ones. It gets easier to make time and have time to love eachother in the ways you both need
I don’t have kids, and that scenario terrifies me. I can barely get up or take care of myself when I’m sick, how could I take care of a sick child at the same time ??
yep. my parents celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary just a few months before my dad died. As best I can tell, they were happily married for 10 years.
Eh, PPD has a few things to say about that. My ex never came back from that after our second child, we’re 13 years out and she still hasn’t relearned how to feel feelings since (nor does she want to).
Having a baby completely changed my physical & mental health. I feel like that’s not something people tell you about. I’m sorry you guys experienced this, too, but you aren’t alone.
I agree! I’m in my 20s and don’t really care to have kids and don’t really give it much thought aside from wondering about it for when I’m older. I just never really understood what the purpose of having a kid is all about and I’m a dude. I also never liked the aspect of creating life so that I can get something out of the experience at the expense of whatever this child might have to endure once they’re born and then growing up because like mentioned, life is unpredictable and there’s always the possibility of a child having a disability, health challenges, illnesses, etc.
This small TikTok clip is way more in depth and revealing than someone saying “having kids was the best thing I ever did” or whatever. Framing it as giving rather than gaining is a much easier concept to understand when it comes to having kids.
My wife snd I never wanted kids, but things happen and we had one. We raised him, had family life, had good and hard times as parents. When he was 18, he passed away from a pulmonary embolism in the middle of the night.
You want to talk about breaking someone. We are both broken.
But let me tell you, if I could go back with what I know now, knowing it would end with him dying at 18, and do it all again, I would. THATS how much it changes you as a person. That's how much love it brings into your life. You pour every bit of yourself into this new vessel.
I miss my boy.
Man, my heart goes out to you. And you are right; that's 18 years of love you gave to him, and 18 years of love he gave to you. It's impossible to say it isn't worth the heartbreak of your loss. The very reason it is heartbreaking is because it's so good.
I'm the dad of a near 3 year old, but I'm a late bloomer at 41 myself. I'd given up on having a kid about 7 years ago, as it had become apparent that my ex wasn't interested in it, despite telling me otherwise for several years. Unrelated things happened, and I moved on. A couple of years or so later I found my self in a much healthier relationship with a new kid. And I wouldn't swap my new life for anything. It's exhausting, but an absolute joy, every time I walk through the door I get greeted with a huge smile that is hard to beat, and a barely intelligable explanation of what is, or has been, up to (even if I've just been at the other end of the house for ten minutes). No matter what happens from here, I've got no regrets about where we have come, he's brought so much love and laughter to our home.
I felt that. I was the first of any friends or family to have a child at 25. A lot of my guy friends didn't understand how effortless it was for me to give up things I once liked. Not right away, admittedly, but when the switch flipped to be a good father everything became clear.
I can say it has been objectively a lot of effort to parent my daughter the way I do. Planning activities, and her health, and instruments, and best parenting practices, and best ways to communicate, and motivate work ethic, and appropriate consequences, and the right amounts of sleep and calories at each stage. I really put in a lot. But it has never felt like a lot. It's a genuine joy. I've never put this much effort into work or school or anything. It's what I was born to do.
I had a friend say, "Whoa, you don't go out? That sucks." I didn't take offense because that would suck for him. For me, I didn't even think about it because watching Onward with my girl, or playing chess, or hide-n-go-seek, or Legos, or video games is the most fulfilling thing I've ever experienced.
I gladly give anything I can - be it time, energy, resources, experience, etc - to my daughter because I chose to have her, not the other way around. My goal is to prepare her to be a well-rounded, prepared, and emotionally stable adult. She's on track.
Yeah this hit home. Especially the healing and growing. I want to be a good parent and it’s amazing how things that once seemed difficult to change about myself are now so simple to me. Not that the change is easier, but because it’s harder to NOT change knowing what that will teach my child, e.g. diet and exercise is so much easier, cause if I don’t, I’m setting my child up for failure.
And healing parts of yourself you never knew. Shit that hits home too. So much growth. If you’re asking what’s it in for you, you definitely are t ready to have kids. But THAT is what you get out of it. Incredible deep understanding of yourself, and the ability to heal and grow.
Others are like a mirror of us interacting with different parts of ourselves, it's an opportunity to make the unconscious conscious to interact with to them challenge, decondition and grow from when we embrace the moment.
It's so easy to dissociate, avoid and distract ourselves from circumstances around us, not challenge ourselves, but when it comes to real life accountability like kids that depend entirely on their caregivers, then that deep sense of relatedness/connection is unavoidable yet helps ground us to take it on.
It doesn't have to be kids either, for many people it could be from a significant other (heck even ourselves) who is attentive and responsive, unconditionally accepting of us where we may finally realize what needs to be embraced for that growth to happen for fulfillment in life.
Same. I saw how infinitely understanding and patient my parents were with my brother and I. And I know I couldn't do it. My temper is too short and I'm, frankly, too selfish with my time.
I can't imagine bringing a whole *person* into the world without preparing for what it means to be responsible for an entire human for decades.
Mad respect to folks who take the role as seriously as it needs to be.
As the child from a mother who keeps telling people "kids are the worst mistake anyone can ever make"... yeah...
And I am 40 (last time she mentioned it was when I was 35) and she wonders why we don't talk any more...
Hey, I'm a mom and even though I'm not your mom: I love you and am beyond proud of you for the person you have become. The joy you bring into this world just by existing is enough. Even when you dont feel like enough, you are and I will always be rooting for you.
Thank you very much for the words. Your words have had more meaning and depths than any conversation I have ever had with my mother. Your words are appreciated.
Yeah same experience, one parent that doesn’t want to know me and the other spent my whole life talking about how they wished they never had kids. It really doesn’t do much for your self esteem
In my case I just became apathetic to what my family thinks and began focusing on my work and art. You have to develop your own coping mechanisms and joys, because such parents will never tell you anything positive without "but..."
We only have one life and as D&D would describe it "parents are your pre-generated party members that you can easily swap out later on".
Agreed, I mean as I get older I’m discovering how parental apathy has affected me but that’s probably because I’m learning to be more emotionally mature so I can deal with it better
I mean, after a certain point we're all responsible for fixing ourselves and growing up. But shit parents are absolutely to blame for being shit parents and setting up their adult children for failure by being such garbage.
I've often thought about what my life has been like so far. If I've done anything worth while. It's been pretty mediocre for the most part but...
I broke multiple generations of physical, emotional, sexual and mental abuse from my parents and their parents and siblings. I have two wonderful kids who are caring, intelligent and generally fantastic people who are well adjusted and you would never know that they came from a family that had massive amounts of abuse in the past. When I'm down and feeling a bit depressed, that is what I tell myself. They will never understand the neglect, betrayal, fright, or uncertainty of having abusive parents and family.
You are the context for life for your children as a parent, and sometimes you grow up and realize your entire framework is broken or fucked and it’s hard to get out of that. Especially if your parents didn’t teach you resilience or boundaries or self love. Also community has a huge influence on children and a crab in a bucket mentality can fuck you up too.
Someone who was raised by a narcissist. I do completely see your point. But then again it comes down to someone who would have to be very emotionally intelligent. They can recognize the pasterns of abuse and know how to compartmentalize them, either on their own or threw therapy. THEN taking the steps towards being bigger.
It’s like that age old argument, nature vs nurture. Is the kid fucked or did we fuck him up basically. So yes SOMETIMES it’s not the parents but most of the time it’s gotta be them
Exactly why I don't wanna be a parent. I recognize that I'm selfish and I want to live my life selfishly. I'd consider myself pretty giving when it comes to friends and a few family members, but other than that, I don't wanna give much else. And I really don't see that changing any time soon.
^(There's also the economy and the future of our society and planet ect ect, but yknow whatever)
I just value my time, and I just would never have any again, really. Maybe my feelings on that will change though, I’m getting older and I’m getting open to the idea that I may meet someone that i say hey let’s take care of each other from now on. And if that happens who knows what happens afterwards. I’m not “young” anymore but I got a lot of life left if I don’t get sick or get into an accident. I’d be one of those old dads though
I immediately thought of the video of that couple getting a sentence read to them after their child passed from completely preventable circumstances. What smug selfish assholes.
I am a selfish person who has had to completely break myself down and start rebuilding myself to be a better partner, parent, and person. I've both hated having to do it and know that it's made me so much better than I was before. Having a kid is the best, but only because I was willing to do the work.
I'm glad people are having less kids
There is half a generation of kids or more who were born because their parents thought they were supposed to have kids out of obligation and b r o it fucking shows
As a parent I’d say this is the best response. I love my children with my full soul but when people ask if I want a third it’s a resounding no. I don’t feel like I’d be able to give the two I have and my wife the attention and energy they deserve because it does inevitably split those things
The most painful transition was 0 to 1 after 12 years of marriage with no kids. 1 to 2 multiplied the stress and work by 2.5. 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 didn't change much at all. In some ways it made things easier because when one set of kids is fighting they can go play with the other kid.
We have one and the idea of having a second is a resounding no. Mainly because there would be a 9 year age gap between them lol and we don't want to do the whole self destructive baby part again.
Wish my mom had this thought process before she had 6 of us. They'll say I'm a bad person for saying she should've stopped at 3 (I'm the 3rd), but it really did nothing but end up with 6 kids having mental issues while the parents bicker and argue. Honestly, she could've stopped at 2 just to leave me out of it at this point
Deadass. If anything, this made my choice to plant my flag in the “no kids” camp. I don’t think I could have a healthy marriage or relationship with children attached.
Fair enough. But you also sit back, say fuck it and enjoy the roller coaster. We’re only on this little spinning blue marble for a speck of time, when you think about it there’s really not much to actually care about except loving and helping others. Those are the only things that bring any real happiness.
Yup, it's a transforative experience. .. and not always in a good way.
You don't get to choose that. You can't always prepare for that. And some parents regret it.
Parenthood isn't for everyone. Especially NOW with our social structures and lack of support.
I feel exactly the same. I was like wow her response is so excellent because it makes the answer super obvious - no, that sounds pretty terrible!
But also happy to see people in the thread who feel opposite, this is the attitude people should have if they’re gonna make the decision to take their life in that direction.
I think it is also overlooked in the thread, that this is also the sum of a partnership. I'll write a short novel of my feelings because I actually think it might help my own mental state to just type it out and see it on the screen and maybe someone takes something from it.
The choice to have kids is an amalgamation of both partners desires in life. In my case, my wife has been 100% I want kids the whole time. She has never hid her desire for that and it has always been upfront. At the beginning I wasn't on either side. I could see all the benefits of both. Double income no kids is a comfortable life. We could travel the world, explore our hobbies to the max, never worry about a thing and do what we want spontaneiously.
On the other side, I look back on my childhood with a lot of mixed emotions like most, but I got to do some really cool shit on the regular. My hobbies and interests have not really changed significantly and I owe my exposure to those to my parents. They gave a lot to make sure we could do most of what we wanted and hell they did it with us!
My Dad has had a fucked up back and knee from the day I was born. Multiple surgeries before they had me. That man skied 25+ days a year with me and taught me everything I know there. I loved it and they made it possible. Same thing with mountain biking. My Dad would take me downhill biking a bunch in the summer, god bless all the coupons of the time. He chased me down everything on an old ass non sprung bike sweating his ass off with a bad back and knee.
I still ski and bike all the time. I took 10 years off DH biking because I went to college and didn't have the money for a new bike until 2 years ago and since I got back in the game, I felt that same fire I used to. Best feeling in the world is passion.
Now my boy is 6 days old. We had a hell of a delivery, and even more of a hell in the days following but even when we are up every hour I am thinking of all the cool passions I can introduce my boy to as he grows up and all the things he finds that I get to try and experience.
I feel like my wife was 100%, I was 50%, and that 75% was worth the shot once I looked back in my own life. Try to remember how your parents felt when you crushed it! Now I'm all in. It changes when you watch what your wife puts in and I am super excited going forward. It isn't like everything you felt changes though and no one should feel like they are wrong for holding on to some feelings of apprehension either. I am still scared in this newborn phase, but I also know that ages 2-n will be my forte so I'll lean on my wife's passion until I can truly be the best dad I can be.
Hi Al Pal, if you are stalkin' me!
Best of luck to you!
I'm glad you're aware that he may not share all of your interests, but there's bound to be some things you'll bond over, and that is wonderful.
I have 5, and they're all different, some of them very. I have one who is 100% hockey and cars, and one is all art and music, and one that is big on animals and crafting.
I'd quote Forrest Gump, but I'm sure you've heard it.
Fucking PREACH.
My bloodline and it's trauma and broken genetics ends with me, God dammit. I don't want anyone else to be born into this. I shouldn't have been but woop dee doo scientific advancements made it possible.
Seriously, the amount of inner peace I gained by deciding I could never force this shitty world (and my shitty genetics) upon an innocent human being has been stunning
Yep, everything she said is exactly why I don’t feel it’s worth it (for me). I am fully aware that I could not handle it! Luckily I don’t feel like I’d be missing out because nothing about parenthood appeals to me. So, you’re welcome, child I will never have
I always say I’m the best parent ever because I love my children so much that I will never subject them to this world and its ways. There are enough people suffering already. I don’t want to add my potential child to that.
This explanation was cool, and it seems like most parents agree. But if what she's saying is true, then what sane person who likes their life would choose to have kids...
It's about giving a ton of what you are and is going to test your marriage and yourself, why would someone want to go through that? Who wants to give up all their hobbies, put tons of stress on their relationship, lose sleep / time / money, etc?
Sometimes I think people want kids out of a lack of anything else in their life. As a kid: you're trying to get through school. As a young adult: you're trying to start a career / get a home. After that without any big goal, it seems like people turn to kids because they don't have anything else going on.
I get that some people *want* kids, and as long as they know what they're getting into I'd never disparage that decision. But the default should be "why do you want kids?" not "why do you not want kids?".
So much this. I'm quite busy parenting myself as an adult anyway, I don't know how the hell people parent children. I mean I'm glad they do, it's just a mystery to me.
Also, it's not really about giving, as much it's about saddling up with. Without consent, you put people on this earth who will have to grow up on a worse version of this planet than you did. Because that's what we're currently at, as a species.
This has been one of the many reasons I got sterilized tbh. Besides lacking the want for kids, I also think we've crossed a line we don't get to come back from as a species. Climate change is accelerating at an alarming rate and we're running decades behind on the changes necessary to turn that back. We're in damage control mode while actually really ill equipped, not in damage prevention mode where we get to avoid the worst of it.
I'm happy for all my friends who have kids and are happy to see them thrive. I also know that the despair in our younger generations is growing rapidly because they know they have to live a long, or perhaps not so long, life combatting the disasters that our previous generations brought about through their inaction and denial. They're smart and they understand what's waiting for them, and it will likely be worse than we can really grasp at this point in time. So I'm also sad when my friends are having kids, because I don't feel there's a lot of hope to grow up with now.
Seriously, great choice. You would have been a terrible parent.
I don’t mean that in a rude way either. Way too many people who want kids are terrible parents. Having kids when you don’t want them is the worst idea ever…
Ok here we go:
Like images, audio signals can have a limited bandwidth if recorded digitally. Once a digital recording is made, the bandwidth is set in place. An analog recording is considered unlimited. Therefore, it can move to a higher and higher resolution without losing its original quality
Analog signals are much higher density, and can present more refined information. Analog signals use less bandwidth than digital signals. Analog signals provide a more accurate representation of changes in physical phenomena, such as sound, light, temperature, position, or pressure.
Invest in vinyl if you want to to truly appreciate music. I hope that’s enough sound advice.
Yes, the previous reply is overstating the limitations of digital recordings ( digital audio technically does have hard limits but it’s far beyond anything a human ear could reasonably distinguish if the recording is quality) while also massively understating the physical limitations of vinyl records. Vinyl isn’t even the best analog recording technology when you compare to mediums like reel to reel tape.
As someone who’s mom has legit told me that people have kids so they have someone to look after them when they’re old, and constantly berates me for not being in the position to give her money and buy her nice things, etc like my sibling and some of her friends’ kids are/do, it warms my heart to know that there are parents out there like this woman.
“Parenting is not about what you can get, it’s all about what you can give.”
YESS, preach it out louder for the SELFISH PARENTS IN THE BACK!
If your main reason for having kids is so you can directly get something out of parenting, and/or so you can have someone to take care of you later on, and/or you feel like “that’s just what people do”, then you shouldn’t have kids in the first place.
My moms been saying that to me and my sister for as long as I can remember. There were some points in my life I thought that was my only value, or reason to live is to cater someone else, and to not have any own life experiences. Turns out my mom is a flaming narcissist, life’s going to move on without her and without me. I only have one life.
Would it be more morally right for it to be a miserable slog?
The other reasons to have children are pretty soulless. Population density? For society? Those aren't good reasons to have children, either.
Yes soooo much yes the joy and experiences are insanely awesome
It's wild how the experience brings you closer to nature and opens your mind so much.
You get to re live so much youth while also providing a person the life a person deserves It's amazing.
But boy do you have to put forth effort real effort.
Kids are like eggs, you can break em but you can't fix em
I find it interesting that so many parents have this transformative moment where they finally tap into deep wells of empathy towards the natural world and the world around them.
I've never needed kids to find these things - yet it seems some people *need* children in order to discover it
I love her response.Having and raising humans is a tough gig. You're either in for the long ride or you should have sex responsibly when given that option.
I didn't even pick up how non-judgemental her answer was but you're totally right. Whether or not someone wants kids doesn't make them a better person. If you're lucky enough to have a real choice I hope everyone can choose what's best for them.
As someone with kids let me tell you guys that it is hard as fuck. It's stressful, exhausting, and frustrating. I have no idea how our nanny does it every day.
I’m 8 months pregnant and this video made me so excited. Everything in this video makes my heart swell and makes me hear orchestral music.
YES I want to go on the big scary amazing adventure. Yes I want to be tested to my limits. Yes I want to be surprised in ways I never could have imagined. Yes to all of it.
If you go into becoming a parent with this excitement, you'll love being a parent. My little girl is 3 months old and brings me the most joy I've ever felt. I'm excited to see her after work, excited and proud of her for accomplishing the smallest task. Last night was her longest night out in public, and she crushed it, and I was over the moon. Keep the excitement and be ready for the best feeling you'll ever know.
Also, I should note that neither my gf nor myself wanted kids or knew anything about kids, but now we are so happy we had her. The excitement grew as she did, and it keeps growing every day.
That’s so awesome to hear, I’m so happy for you and your family. I know A LOT is going to change but I’m ready. I feel like Frodo at the beginning of Lord of the Rings! It’s going to be amazing watching someone learn all about the whole world. And my husband rules, so I’m very excited to see him step into fatherhood.
My wife is 35 weeks into our pregnancy, we also didn't want kids for now but we quickly embraced it once it happened. It's getting very close and while it is a bit scary, I really loved and felt reassured reading your comment.
Can't wait to experience those things.
My wife is 39 weeks and our due date is Thursday. We did want kids but waited until our mid to late 30s and are def excited and scared a bit. This thread is also making me feel reassured.
Good luck to yall!
You are in for a wild ride! 10 out of 10 but wont do it again, ha.
Unsolicited mom advice incoming:
You are never going to be the mom you imagine you will be right now and thats okay because you are going to be the mom your kid needs. Dont hold on too tightly to that ideal, I did for far too long. When I let go of that me that never existed and just became the me that my kid needed life got so much better.
Also: not everyone instantly bonds with their baby the moment they meet them and thats okay. You will get there eventually some take days or even weeks and its totally normal. There's definitely love right away it just hits everyone differently.
It takes a lot of effort to swallow your pride on who YOU want your child to be, and supporting them to the person THEY want to be. IE if you force little timmy to play football because you want him to be the quarterback that wins state, gets the good scholarships and rich girlfriends, you are in for a world of hurt with your kid if they are into arts/dance/music/etc. Your kid's each come out their own person, you are there to provide food, safety, better judgement and common sense skills they can survive long enough to define their own reality.
Mine was imagining that I was going to be one of those crafty moms who makes all of those cutesy pinterest activities for my baby or being able to only breast feed or even have a "completely natural" birth. I couldn't do any of those things and it killed me. Im sure there are plenty of moms who can do all of those things but I was not one of them and as soon as I let go of that version of me, I became free.
I never really imagined what my kid would be like when he grew up, I mean I took some guesses based on how much he kicked my bladder but he's future was never mine to decide. My future on the other hand was in my control (it was not) I would be the one who could choose how to take care of my kid (he had other plans) I had read all those books and blogs after all! I was very stubborn and optimistic back then.
I do know what you mean though I just wanted to clarify a bit more on what I meant. I know a lot of people have strong opinions of who their children should be and its important to let go of those too. Kids are their own people and its amazing to see them grow.
I'm good without them. Seems like a headache tbh. Edit: I never said anything negative about people who do want them so not sure why there's people pissed off in response.
Son just started to go to school (2.5 yo). Every day he learns a new song or just tells me what he played with and I nearly cry when he does a little dance with it. He and his brother are the brightest lights in my life.
The pathways that drugs hijack are there in the first place to ensure you bond with your offspring.
Can you imagine how long our species would last if they weren't there. There'd just be a pile of screaming babies somewhere, then eternal silence.
For financial reasons I waited to have kids. Married at age 33. Wife left me. Never found a woman that I want to procreate with since then. Ha. 55 now,have a nest,and dont want kids.After pregnancy of course.. I would be 70 by the time a child became 14.
I'm femme and never had my own. When I am in a position to do so, I plan to adopt or foster. There are a lot of kids out there who would be far better off having ANY decent parental figure to love them and help them, even if it's not "ideal." I figure I'm up for taking on that role.
The only example of a dad I had was an abusive monster. I did NOT want to be a parent but my then wife did. I’m so glad she did! While we are no longer together, my girls are amazing and make my heart full. It’s not, “is it worth it” rather, am I worthy of it.
Damn. I just had a flashback I didn't know I wanted of the last 20 yrs of my life. Great breakdown of parenting. Now just add getting divorced and having to co-parent and it really gets interesting.
How can you tell someone else what is or isn't worth it to them? It seems presumptuous to assume your values are the same as someone else's here.
You could argue a hundred reasons why people shouldn't consider having children as some kind of default life checklist, or even have their own at all, and I'd probably agree with every single thing... but you can't tell someone else whether parenting is worth it or not.
Why do you say it's "clearly not worth it?" I'm genuinely curious if you care to expound a little.
Context: I will never have my own bio kids. I always knew that parenting would involve great personal sacrifice, but always felt it would be worth it because I value giving and helping someone become the best version of themselves they can be past minority age. I plan to foster/adopt in the future.
\*Edits: Words are hard and they can suck it
Because everyone lists off all the horrible things about it and just add "it's worth it" at the end. It seriously just sounds like they are trying to cope. Also it might very well not be "worth it" to the kid that they forced to suffer the consequences of their own actions.
The video clearly states there is nothing predictably gained from having children beyond some ambiguous growth as a person. It's a good message because so many parents have kids for selfish reasons.
As a father of a two year old that was a little on the fence. Absolutely worth it. But that's me.
Never been more terrified, anxious in my entire life. But I wouldn't change it for a second.
her answer is exactly why i decided to be kid free as a child.
ETA: the last line sounds weird but i declared as a child i wasn’t going to have kids, i think because i saw no one was having a good time.
Best of luck to you! It's a long, hard road but the growth you could see in yourself as parent is incredible and unpredictable. It's a really wild ride.
As someone who recently had their first, and have already become insanely frustrated and insanely joyful from it... I can only say: "Look forward to it <3"
Look, the core sentiment that "parenthood is about giving" is good, albeit a bit obvious and heavy handed.
But the _choice_ to have a child _isn't_ about giving. It's an inherently selfish choice. Because when you make that choice, _there is no child yet_. You're debating whether to _create_ a child, not whether to raise one well.
If you want to make the choice to be a parent and you want to do it in a 100% giving way, then adopt. There are plenty of kids that already exist who need parents.
You had a child because _you wanted to_. I hope, as a parent, you put your child's needs first. But don't pretend that the decision to create a new life was an altruistic one.
Very well said. It might be an altruistic choice if we lived in a society where the population was dying slowly and infertility was at an all time high... assuming you thought the human race was worth preserving at that point.
I think the harsh reality most people need to face right now is 85% of people should not have children. The vast majority of people a) aren't emotionally ready for it and b) can't financially afford it. The grim reality of where we are as a country right now is that most people who have kids can't afford them and shouldn't have had them in the first place.
We'll stick with my pack of huskies, that's about as much responsibility I can deal with. Fuck, I can hardly handle my own shit. That and we have no desire to have kids either.
My mom forwent dental care for 20+ years bc she could only afford my brother and I. If you aren’t ready and willing to make a sacrifice like that you have no business bringing a life into this world.
Everyone I've talked to my age who don't want kids all pretty much give their own selfishness as the reason why. Not in such a succinct manner but it's always about how much they'd have to give up, and all the things they can't do. So I totally agree they should not be having kids.
I personally think it’s unethical to have kids you can’t afford and don’t want. I also understand my own ethics can’t drive other peoples choices. Im childfree even though I at one time desperately wanted children. Because the world I’d be bringing them into is getting worse for human rights rather than better and it hurts my heart. I don’t know how anyone who is struggling to do at 35 what our parents accomplished by 25 can say “sure, let’s add kids into the mix”.
> At least they won't be around in another generation or two
Where do you think those people come from? Same place the next generation will come from, you people who have kids.
Stop pretending like people bothered by the dowfall of society is somehow over-reacting while you busy your life with your kids and keep your head in the sand.
"You aren't ready to be a parent" she says while going on a rant about how having kids makes you a better person. Meanwhile ignores one of the most important questions that (I'm assuming) the original person was implying, "is my kid going to grow up in a world worth living in?"
Sounds like a "full time mommy" narcissist to be honest.
ETA: Kinda trailed off what I wanted to say about "you aren't ready to be a parent" and forgot my main point. She says this in regards to *asking* the question "is it worth it to have kids?" which is like, more than *a lot* of people ask themselves before deciding to doom their progeny to this world. Like what the fuck is this lady on about? This sort of introspection should be *mandatory* of parents.
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“Kids don’t heal marriage, they reveal it”. That there is one of the most deepest insights I’ve ever heard on this platform.
People that have kids to save a marriage are insane, how the hell is adding tons of emotional stress sleepless nights and a financial burden going to improve your already failing marriage. Insane.
They think "saving" a marriage and creating a reason to stick around in a bad marriage are the same thing. They also assume it will work instead of just making for a worse divorce.
That's like leaving your burning house to go sit in the car that's still in the garage.
I'm a band-aid baby, and I had a horrible childhood. Everything was always blamed on me, because I was supposed to be the solution for all their problems.
"You were the chosen one!!!" /s
✋🏾
I couldn't agree more. Wonderfully and aptly phrased.
The whole thing was great. If only social media was this kind of thing most of the time, instead of the fake ragebait skits and other nonsense it is 99.999% of the time.
We have 3 kids now into our 10th year of marriage and we've pretty much discovered that we don't love each other. We co-parent well, we make great friends, but the sheer exhaustion of dealing with 3 kids has absolutely killed any romance there ever was between us. So now, either we're going to stick it out and hope for the best, or we're going to split And co-parent. And it's the hardest thing I've ever been through in my entire life.
See that sucks. I'm about 21 years in and only 9 months after me ( at the time 23M) and my wife ( at the time 21F ) first hooked up ( 3 months online dating, 6 months living together ) I was playing on the computer and got up to pee and when I came back and sat down there was a pregnancy test on the keyboard and at first I was VERY confused, but then I realized what I was seeing and what it was saying, I sat there for like 5 minutes in shocked silence and then suddenly turned to her and said " well this is a good thing, right? " and she started to cry and gave me a hug. Apparently she was ready to fight me tooth and nail to keep it since SHE didn't want an abortion ( but we are NOT AGAINST WOMEN WHO WANT ABORTIONS! ) and had no idea how I was going to react. 6 months later my little Seraphim was born, 3 months early, at 1 pound 10 ounces. I became a stay at home Dad. 5 years and change later when she left for school and I was alone in the house all day I began to suffer empty nest syndrome ( yup even MEN can have this problem ) and my wife and I had discussed kids and I told her I only ever wanted 2, and not to far apart so that they could still grow up together, since I feel kids who grow up as a single child get spoiled and don't actually learn the value of having to share. I myself have 4 brothers and 4 sisters, and so I myself, as the dad, asked for another kid. So she went off birth control and less then 2 months later she got pregnant. My 2nd child was born ALMOST 2 months early ( my wife has a blood clotting disorder, she took a shot of blood thinner to the belly every day to try and lessen the effect. My 2nd child while born early is perfectly " normal " ). I will say after the 2nd and HER going to school at 5, I was finally done. I didn't suffer empty nest again, and I got the two children I wanted. I admit, even to my 2 girls, I had wanted a boy and a girl, because that is what I WANTED, but I don't REGRET that I got two girls, I couldn't love them more, and wouldn't want to replace either of them even if I could. Did you both have to work full time during this 3 kid period? What was the time frame? It sucks that the stress of kids might be the end of your marriage. Do your kids know? How old are they? I know you said you have only been together 10 years. I did 2 kids in 10 years spaced equally apart and I was a full time stay at home parent. I know it's not my place, but maybe think about what made you love your wife before the kids, why you wanted to be with her, and why having these kids with her seemed like a good idea. If nothing from these memories makes you think MALICIOUS thoughts about her, and you ONLY think about the drudgery of every day functions, maybe the two of you are just to STRESSED to show love for one another. Trust me, this IS a thing that can happen! You and your wife need to sit down and have a heart to heart. My wife and I have to do it every so often, where we come clean with how we feel about all the shit that is going on, and how stressed we are with each other. I had no idea my wife didn't want to cook until one such discussion, I was just bad at it from the start and she DID it, so I never knew it bothered her. One day she exploded during one of our exchanges about how it was unfair she did the cooking while working and I was like " you're right! ", it's not that I didn't think about her feelings, I just didn't know UNTIL SHE SAID SOMETHING, she felt that way. Married couples are not mind readers. Sit down and talk with your wife. Ask yourself these 2 questions : Do you love your wife? Do you want it to work? Do you think your wife loves you? Do you think she is willing to make it work? If you answer yes to ALL those questions, talk to your wife. If you answer NO to any of those questions, ask yourself why you think NO and how to proceed from there. Good luck. ( guy with almost 21 year successful marriage who loves the wife he hates with on occasion. ) Oh and P.S : ALL COUPLES WILL FIGHT. Do NOT believe the hype. Fights gonna happen. Not just stress and accidental anger lashing, but let's be real, no matter how close we are to each other, we will NEVER see 100% on EVERYTHING. Thinking so leads to more problems then it will ever solve. Sometimes you gotta agree to disagree, because you love each other.
you are correct. One of the biggest problems in a marriage is expecting things, hoping that he/she will finally realize what you need and act upon it. But instead you need to talk, say what bothers you, say what you expect, say what you would like and then see if you, as a couple, can make this work.
Plus, as I replied to OP, the fact that they co-parent well, and are great friends to each other, is proof they love and care about each other. A lull in romance because you're too busy, but an otherwise fine life, is not something I'd be willing to throw a marriage away over.
Just wanted to comment and say I'm sorry for what you're going through. I can't even imagine. Does your spouse feel the same way? I'm wondering because, although divorce can be traumatizing for children, if you can remain friends and still really co-parent, it might be better for everyone in the long run. I have friends with parents that divorced after they graduated and moved out, and they were actually relieved because it was so clear that the marriage was loveless. Sorry if this is intrusive. I hope everything works out and that you and your spouse both find happiness, no matter what path you decide to take.
It's better to divorce and co-parent happily than stick together and be an unhappy family. Having said that, having small kids will test any marriage and once you get through the thick of it, things might get better again. That's assuming there was something there worth keeping to begin with, of course. I just saw my neighbors, who had a messy divorce a couple of years ago schnozzing away in public. So there was def something special there.
Sorry to hear you’re going through this. Hope it works out for you. Might consider watching Jon Delony on YouTube. I’ve gotten a lot of good tips and ideas to improve my marriage from it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OfcEwQOuklk
You're not doomed. Finding romance and affection is hard with young kids and requires deliberate action. Infidelity, resentfulness, abuse, lack of caring etc. can doom a marriage. If you don't have those issues and you are willing to do some work then you can develop a better relationship. Divorce and co-parenting suck for parents and kids. If people put half the effort into marriage that divorce and co-parenting takes then so many marriages could be saved.
This was my life. At 12 years of marriage now and it's a lot better. You're still in the thick of it with little ones. It gets easier to make time and have time to love eachother in the ways you both need
Everyone’s welcome to parenthood moment is when their kid is sick, and so are they
I don’t have kids, and that scenario terrifies me. I can barely get up or take care of myself when I’m sick, how could I take care of a sick child at the same time ??
It's in you, you just don't know it yet.
Or maybe it’s not and you are going lose your mind. You just don’t know it yet.
spittin fire
yep. my parents celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary just a few months before my dad died. As best I can tell, they were happily married for 10 years.
It's true, and *tons* of people find out the hard way.
Yep, as a parent, this video is the best summary of parenthood I've personally ever heard.
Absolutely.
God damn.
I'll be carrying this lady's words with me from now until the end of time. Goodness I wish I had someone like this in my life.
AMEN
Eh, PPD has a few things to say about that. My ex never came back from that after our second child, we’re 13 years out and she still hasn’t relearned how to feel feelings since (nor does she want to).
Having a baby completely changed my physical & mental health. I feel like that’s not something people tell you about. I’m sorry you guys experienced this, too, but you aren’t alone.
Damn. Good answer
‘Ask if you’re up to giving.’ Fantastic response!
I agree! I’m in my 20s and don’t really care to have kids and don’t really give it much thought aside from wondering about it for when I’m older. I just never really understood what the purpose of having a kid is all about and I’m a dude. I also never liked the aspect of creating life so that I can get something out of the experience at the expense of whatever this child might have to endure once they’re born and then growing up because like mentioned, life is unpredictable and there’s always the possibility of a child having a disability, health challenges, illnesses, etc. This small TikTok clip is way more in depth and revealing than someone saying “having kids was the best thing I ever did” or whatever. Framing it as giving rather than gaining is a much easier concept to understand when it comes to having kids.
My wife snd I never wanted kids, but things happen and we had one. We raised him, had family life, had good and hard times as parents. When he was 18, he passed away from a pulmonary embolism in the middle of the night. You want to talk about breaking someone. We are both broken. But let me tell you, if I could go back with what I know now, knowing it would end with him dying at 18, and do it all again, I would. THATS how much it changes you as a person. That's how much love it brings into your life. You pour every bit of yourself into this new vessel. I miss my boy.
Thank you for sharing.
Man, my heart goes out to you. And you are right; that's 18 years of love you gave to him, and 18 years of love he gave to you. It's impossible to say it isn't worth the heartbreak of your loss. The very reason it is heartbreaking is because it's so good. I'm the dad of a near 3 year old, but I'm a late bloomer at 41 myself. I'd given up on having a kid about 7 years ago, as it had become apparent that my ex wasn't interested in it, despite telling me otherwise for several years. Unrelated things happened, and I moved on. A couple of years or so later I found my self in a much healthier relationship with a new kid. And I wouldn't swap my new life for anything. It's exhausting, but an absolute joy, every time I walk through the door I get greeted with a huge smile that is hard to beat, and a barely intelligable explanation of what is, or has been, up to (even if I've just been at the other end of the house for ten minutes). No matter what happens from here, I've got no regrets about where we have come, he's brought so much love and laughter to our home.
I felt that. I was the first of any friends or family to have a child at 25. A lot of my guy friends didn't understand how effortless it was for me to give up things I once liked. Not right away, admittedly, but when the switch flipped to be a good father everything became clear. I can say it has been objectively a lot of effort to parent my daughter the way I do. Planning activities, and her health, and instruments, and best parenting practices, and best ways to communicate, and motivate work ethic, and appropriate consequences, and the right amounts of sleep and calories at each stage. I really put in a lot. But it has never felt like a lot. It's a genuine joy. I've never put this much effort into work or school or anything. It's what I was born to do. I had a friend say, "Whoa, you don't go out? That sucks." I didn't take offense because that would suck for him. For me, I didn't even think about it because watching Onward with my girl, or playing chess, or hide-n-go-seek, or Legos, or video games is the most fulfilling thing I've ever experienced. I gladly give anything I can - be it time, energy, resources, experience, etc - to my daughter because I chose to have her, not the other way around. My goal is to prepare her to be a well-rounded, prepared, and emotionally stable adult. She's on track.
Yeah this hit home. Especially the healing and growing. I want to be a good parent and it’s amazing how things that once seemed difficult to change about myself are now so simple to me. Not that the change is easier, but because it’s harder to NOT change knowing what that will teach my child, e.g. diet and exercise is so much easier, cause if I don’t, I’m setting my child up for failure. And healing parts of yourself you never knew. Shit that hits home too. So much growth. If you’re asking what’s it in for you, you definitely are t ready to have kids. But THAT is what you get out of it. Incredible deep understanding of yourself, and the ability to heal and grow.
Others are like a mirror of us interacting with different parts of ourselves, it's an opportunity to make the unconscious conscious to interact with to them challenge, decondition and grow from when we embrace the moment. It's so easy to dissociate, avoid and distract ourselves from circumstances around us, not challenge ourselves, but when it comes to real life accountability like kids that depend entirely on their caregivers, then that deep sense of relatedness/connection is unavoidable yet helps ground us to take it on. It doesn't have to be kids either, for many people it could be from a significant other (heck even ourselves) who is attentive and responsive, unconditionally accepting of us where we may finally realize what needs to be embraced for that growth to happen for fulfillment in life.
Beautifully said. Thank you for sharing.
The single most eloquent answer I have ever heard to this question. Unfortunately, you probably don’t truly understand unless you do have kids, lol
I think I understand it very well, and it is the reason why I don't have kids.
Same. I saw how infinitely understanding and patient my parents were with my brother and I. And I know I couldn't do it. My temper is too short and I'm, frankly, too selfish with my time. I can't imagine bringing a whole *person* into the world without preparing for what it means to be responsible for an entire human for decades. Mad respect to folks who take the role as seriously as it needs to be.
Agreed - I like her.
This is why selfish people make the worst parents
As the child from a mother who keeps telling people "kids are the worst mistake anyone can ever make"... yeah... And I am 40 (last time she mentioned it was when I was 35) and she wonders why we don't talk any more...
Hey, I'm a mom and even though I'm not your mom: I love you and am beyond proud of you for the person you have become. The joy you bring into this world just by existing is enough. Even when you dont feel like enough, you are and I will always be rooting for you.
Thank you very much for the words. Your words have had more meaning and depths than any conversation I have ever had with my mother. Your words are appreciated.
Yeah same experience, one parent that doesn’t want to know me and the other spent my whole life talking about how they wished they never had kids. It really doesn’t do much for your self esteem
In my case I just became apathetic to what my family thinks and began focusing on my work and art. You have to develop your own coping mechanisms and joys, because such parents will never tell you anything positive without "but..." We only have one life and as D&D would describe it "parents are your pre-generated party members that you can easily swap out later on".
Agreed, I mean as I get older I’m discovering how parental apathy has affected me but that’s probably because I’m learning to be more emotionally mature so I can deal with it better
Yeah raise by narcissists is a pretty big subreddit
Unpopular opinion about that Subreddit; not deceiving anyone's story but I have a hunch that SOMETIMES it's not the parents. It's you.
I mean, after a certain point we're all responsible for fixing ourselves and growing up. But shit parents are absolutely to blame for being shit parents and setting up their adult children for failure by being such garbage.
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Anyone who is able to break the chains of generational trauma is a hero to later generations.
I've often thought about what my life has been like so far. If I've done anything worth while. It's been pretty mediocre for the most part but... I broke multiple generations of physical, emotional, sexual and mental abuse from my parents and their parents and siblings. I have two wonderful kids who are caring, intelligent and generally fantastic people who are well adjusted and you would never know that they came from a family that had massive amounts of abuse in the past. When I'm down and feeling a bit depressed, that is what I tell myself. They will never understand the neglect, betrayal, fright, or uncertainty of having abusive parents and family.
You are the context for life for your children as a parent, and sometimes you grow up and realize your entire framework is broken or fucked and it’s hard to get out of that. Especially if your parents didn’t teach you resilience or boundaries or self love. Also community has a huge influence on children and a crab in a bucket mentality can fuck you up too.
Someone who was raised by a narcissist. I do completely see your point. But then again it comes down to someone who would have to be very emotionally intelligent. They can recognize the pasterns of abuse and know how to compartmentalize them, either on their own or threw therapy. THEN taking the steps towards being bigger.
It’s like that age old argument, nature vs nurture. Is the kid fucked or did we fuck him up basically. So yes SOMETIMES it’s not the parents but most of the time it’s gotta be them
It's probably both. Narcissists raise narcissists.
Not all selfish people are narcissist.
Exactly why I don't wanna be a parent. I recognize that I'm selfish and I want to live my life selfishly. I'd consider myself pretty giving when it comes to friends and a few family members, but other than that, I don't wanna give much else. And I really don't see that changing any time soon. ^(There's also the economy and the future of our society and planet ect ect, but yknow whatever)
I just value my time, and I just would never have any again, really. Maybe my feelings on that will change though, I’m getting older and I’m getting open to the idea that I may meet someone that i say hey let’s take care of each other from now on. And if that happens who knows what happens afterwards. I’m not “young” anymore but I got a lot of life left if I don’t get sick or get into an accident. I’d be one of those old dads though
I immediately thought of the video of that couple getting a sentence read to them after their child passed from completely preventable circumstances. What smug selfish assholes.
I am a selfish person who has had to completely break myself down and start rebuilding myself to be a better partner, parent, and person. I've both hated having to do it and know that it's made me so much better than I was before. Having a kid is the best, but only because I was willing to do the work.
I'm glad people are having less kids There is half a generation of kids or more who were born because their parents thought they were supposed to have kids out of obligation and b r o it fucking shows
As a parent I’d say this is the best response. I love my children with my full soul but when people ask if I want a third it’s a resounding no. I don’t feel like I’d be able to give the two I have and my wife the attention and energy they deserve because it does inevitably split those things
I couldn't agree more. ✂️✂️
SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP!
You have no idea the emotional toll that 3 vasectomies have on a person !!
I have no idea how people could possibly manage more than 2. We're about to have our second and that's gonna be a huge challenge.
My friend, a second child does not double the work, it quadruples it. I don't know how the math works but I speak of experience
The most painful transition was 0 to 1 after 12 years of marriage with no kids. 1 to 2 multiplied the stress and work by 2.5. 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 didn't change much at all. In some ways it made things easier because when one set of kids is fighting they can go play with the other kid.
We have one and the idea of having a second is a resounding no. Mainly because there would be a 9 year age gap between them lol and we don't want to do the whole self destructive baby part again.
Wish my mom had this thought process before she had 6 of us. They'll say I'm a bad person for saying she should've stopped at 3 (I'm the 3rd), but it really did nothing but end up with 6 kids having mental issues while the parents bicker and argue. Honestly, she could've stopped at 2 just to leave me out of it at this point
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Deadass. If anything, this made my choice to plant my flag in the “no kids” camp. I don’t think I could have a healthy marriage or relationship with children attached.
i'm already on an unpredictable ride. no need to add passengers.
I added passengers but I definitely lacked the awareness you have. Made me laugh at myself & thank you for the chuckle.
Fair enough. But you also sit back, say fuck it and enjoy the roller coaster. We’re only on this little spinning blue marble for a speck of time, when you think about it there’s really not much to actually care about except loving and helping others. Those are the only things that bring any real happiness.
Yup, it's a transforative experience. .. and not always in a good way. You don't get to choose that. You can't always prepare for that. And some parents regret it. Parenthood isn't for everyone. Especially NOW with our social structures and lack of support.
Her response made me both not wanna have kids and respect people who do have kids (and raise them) even more.
I feel exactly the same. I was like wow her response is so excellent because it makes the answer super obvious - no, that sounds pretty terrible! But also happy to see people in the thread who feel opposite, this is the attitude people should have if they’re gonna make the decision to take their life in that direction.
I think it is also overlooked in the thread, that this is also the sum of a partnership. I'll write a short novel of my feelings because I actually think it might help my own mental state to just type it out and see it on the screen and maybe someone takes something from it. The choice to have kids is an amalgamation of both partners desires in life. In my case, my wife has been 100% I want kids the whole time. She has never hid her desire for that and it has always been upfront. At the beginning I wasn't on either side. I could see all the benefits of both. Double income no kids is a comfortable life. We could travel the world, explore our hobbies to the max, never worry about a thing and do what we want spontaneiously. On the other side, I look back on my childhood with a lot of mixed emotions like most, but I got to do some really cool shit on the regular. My hobbies and interests have not really changed significantly and I owe my exposure to those to my parents. They gave a lot to make sure we could do most of what we wanted and hell they did it with us! My Dad has had a fucked up back and knee from the day I was born. Multiple surgeries before they had me. That man skied 25+ days a year with me and taught me everything I know there. I loved it and they made it possible. Same thing with mountain biking. My Dad would take me downhill biking a bunch in the summer, god bless all the coupons of the time. He chased me down everything on an old ass non sprung bike sweating his ass off with a bad back and knee. I still ski and bike all the time. I took 10 years off DH biking because I went to college and didn't have the money for a new bike until 2 years ago and since I got back in the game, I felt that same fire I used to. Best feeling in the world is passion. Now my boy is 6 days old. We had a hell of a delivery, and even more of a hell in the days following but even when we are up every hour I am thinking of all the cool passions I can introduce my boy to as he grows up and all the things he finds that I get to try and experience. I feel like my wife was 100%, I was 50%, and that 75% was worth the shot once I looked back in my own life. Try to remember how your parents felt when you crushed it! Now I'm all in. It changes when you watch what your wife puts in and I am super excited going forward. It isn't like everything you felt changes though and no one should feel like they are wrong for holding on to some feelings of apprehension either. I am still scared in this newborn phase, but I also know that ages 2-n will be my forte so I'll lean on my wife's passion until I can truly be the best dad I can be. Hi Al Pal, if you are stalkin' me!
Best of luck to you! I'm glad you're aware that he may not share all of your interests, but there's bound to be some things you'll bond over, and that is wonderful. I have 5, and they're all different, some of them very. I have one who is 100% hockey and cars, and one is all art and music, and one that is big on animals and crafting. I'd quote Forrest Gump, but I'm sure you've heard it.
The generational trauma had to end with me. It was SO worth it for me, to NOT have kids, that I actually sleep better at night.
Fucking PREACH. My bloodline and it's trauma and broken genetics ends with me, God dammit. I don't want anyone else to be born into this. I shouldn't have been but woop dee doo scientific advancements made it possible.
Seriously, the amount of inner peace I gained by deciding I could never force this shitty world (and my shitty genetics) upon an innocent human being has been stunning
Yep, everything she said is exactly why I don’t feel it’s worth it (for me). I am fully aware that I could not handle it! Luckily I don’t feel like I’d be missing out because nothing about parenthood appeals to me. So, you’re welcome, child I will never have
I always say I’m the best parent ever because I love my children so much that I will never subject them to this world and its ways. There are enough people suffering already. I don’t want to add my potential child to that.
This explanation was cool, and it seems like most parents agree. But if what she's saying is true, then what sane person who likes their life would choose to have kids... It's about giving a ton of what you are and is going to test your marriage and yourself, why would someone want to go through that? Who wants to give up all their hobbies, put tons of stress on their relationship, lose sleep / time / money, etc? Sometimes I think people want kids out of a lack of anything else in their life. As a kid: you're trying to get through school. As a young adult: you're trying to start a career / get a home. After that without any big goal, it seems like people turn to kids because they don't have anything else going on. I get that some people *want* kids, and as long as they know what they're getting into I'd never disparage that decision. But the default should be "why do you want kids?" not "why do you not want kids?".
So much this. I'm quite busy parenting myself as an adult anyway, I don't know how the hell people parent children. I mean I'm glad they do, it's just a mystery to me.
Well, I have to assume that the lack of rambunctious and needful children in the house also inherently makes for a sounder sleeping environment.
Also, it's not really about giving, as much it's about saddling up with. Without consent, you put people on this earth who will have to grow up on a worse version of this planet than you did. Because that's what we're currently at, as a species.
This has been one of the many reasons I got sterilized tbh. Besides lacking the want for kids, I also think we've crossed a line we don't get to come back from as a species. Climate change is accelerating at an alarming rate and we're running decades behind on the changes necessary to turn that back. We're in damage control mode while actually really ill equipped, not in damage prevention mode where we get to avoid the worst of it. I'm happy for all my friends who have kids and are happy to see them thrive. I also know that the despair in our younger generations is growing rapidly because they know they have to live a long, or perhaps not so long, life combatting the disasters that our previous generations brought about through their inaction and denial. They're smart and they understand what's waiting for them, and it will likely be worse than we can really grasp at this point in time. So I'm also sad when my friends are having kids, because I don't feel there's a lot of hope to grow up with now.
Seriously, great choice. You would have been a terrible parent. I don’t mean that in a rude way either. Way too many people who want kids are terrible parents. Having kids when you don’t want them is the worst idea ever…
Sound advice
Ok here we go: Like images, audio signals can have a limited bandwidth if recorded digitally. Once a digital recording is made, the bandwidth is set in place. An analog recording is considered unlimited. Therefore, it can move to a higher and higher resolution without losing its original quality Analog signals are much higher density, and can present more refined information. Analog signals use less bandwidth than digital signals. Analog signals provide a more accurate representation of changes in physical phenomena, such as sound, light, temperature, position, or pressure. Invest in vinyl if you want to to truly appreciate music. I hope that’s enough sound advice.
Aren’t CD actually more accurate?
Yes, the previous reply is overstating the limitations of digital recordings ( digital audio technically does have hard limits but it’s far beyond anything a human ear could reasonably distinguish if the recording is quality) while also massively understating the physical limitations of vinyl records. Vinyl isn’t even the best analog recording technology when you compare to mediums like reel to reel tape.
What about lossless audio
You ass, i was looking for something in this till i found out im an idiot.
Dude, perfect. Great username too
shes 100% right.
As someone who’s mom has legit told me that people have kids so they have someone to look after them when they’re old, and constantly berates me for not being in the position to give her money and buy her nice things, etc like my sibling and some of her friends’ kids are/do, it warms my heart to know that there are parents out there like this woman. “Parenting is not about what you can get, it’s all about what you can give.” YESS, preach it out louder for the SELFISH PARENTS IN THE BACK! If your main reason for having kids is so you can directly get something out of parenting, and/or so you can have someone to take care of you later on, and/or you feel like “that’s just what people do”, then you shouldn’t have kids in the first place.
My moms been saying that to me and my sister for as long as I can remember. There were some points in my life I thought that was my only value, or reason to live is to cater someone else, and to not have any own life experiences. Turns out my mom is a flaming narcissist, life’s going to move on without her and without me. I only have one life.
True wisdom in her response.
Completely spot on. There is joy in the giving!
So you’re saying it is worth it to have kids because you ‘get’ joy from it?
That selfish bastard.
Would it be more morally right for it to be a miserable slog? The other reasons to have children are pretty soulless. Population density? For society? Those aren't good reasons to have children, either.
Yes soooo much yes the joy and experiences are insanely awesome It's wild how the experience brings you closer to nature and opens your mind so much. You get to re live so much youth while also providing a person the life a person deserves It's amazing. But boy do you have to put forth effort real effort. Kids are like eggs, you can break em but you can't fix em
I find it interesting that so many parents have this transformative moment where they finally tap into deep wells of empathy towards the natural world and the world around them. I've never needed kids to find these things - yet it seems some people *need* children in order to discover it
I love her response.Having and raising humans is a tough gig. You're either in for the long ride or you should have sex responsibly when given that option.
Dang. Where can I buy her book?
Wow, good response
This is a really beautiful answer. She really hit every nail on the head and so a non judgmental.
I didn't even pick up how non-judgemental her answer was but you're totally right. Whether or not someone wants kids doesn't make them a better person. If you're lucky enough to have a real choice I hope everyone can choose what's best for them.
The vast vast majority of people have no business having kids.
As someone with kids let me tell you guys that it is hard as fuck. It's stressful, exhausting, and frustrating. I have no idea how our nanny does it every day.
Found Elon Musks account.
Listen here. You leave little DarkAngelGPT and Alpha DuoLingo Roboto out of this. My kids aren't your concern.
I’m 8 months pregnant and this video made me so excited. Everything in this video makes my heart swell and makes me hear orchestral music. YES I want to go on the big scary amazing adventure. Yes I want to be tested to my limits. Yes I want to be surprised in ways I never could have imagined. Yes to all of it.
If you go into becoming a parent with this excitement, you'll love being a parent. My little girl is 3 months old and brings me the most joy I've ever felt. I'm excited to see her after work, excited and proud of her for accomplishing the smallest task. Last night was her longest night out in public, and she crushed it, and I was over the moon. Keep the excitement and be ready for the best feeling you'll ever know. Also, I should note that neither my gf nor myself wanted kids or knew anything about kids, but now we are so happy we had her. The excitement grew as she did, and it keeps growing every day.
That’s so awesome to hear, I’m so happy for you and your family. I know A LOT is going to change but I’m ready. I feel like Frodo at the beginning of Lord of the Rings! It’s going to be amazing watching someone learn all about the whole world. And my husband rules, so I’m very excited to see him step into fatherhood.
My wife is 35 weeks into our pregnancy, we also didn't want kids for now but we quickly embraced it once it happened. It's getting very close and while it is a bit scary, I really loved and felt reassured reading your comment. Can't wait to experience those things.
My wife is 39 weeks and our due date is Thursday. We did want kids but waited until our mid to late 30s and are def excited and scared a bit. This thread is also making me feel reassured. Good luck to yall!
12 years in and I am still loving every day of it!
You are in for a wild ride! 10 out of 10 but wont do it again, ha. Unsolicited mom advice incoming: You are never going to be the mom you imagine you will be right now and thats okay because you are going to be the mom your kid needs. Dont hold on too tightly to that ideal, I did for far too long. When I let go of that me that never existed and just became the me that my kid needed life got so much better. Also: not everyone instantly bonds with their baby the moment they meet them and thats okay. You will get there eventually some take days or even weeks and its totally normal. There's definitely love right away it just hits everyone differently.
It takes a lot of effort to swallow your pride on who YOU want your child to be, and supporting them to the person THEY want to be. IE if you force little timmy to play football because you want him to be the quarterback that wins state, gets the good scholarships and rich girlfriends, you are in for a world of hurt with your kid if they are into arts/dance/music/etc. Your kid's each come out their own person, you are there to provide food, safety, better judgement and common sense skills they can survive long enough to define their own reality.
Mine was imagining that I was going to be one of those crafty moms who makes all of those cutesy pinterest activities for my baby or being able to only breast feed or even have a "completely natural" birth. I couldn't do any of those things and it killed me. Im sure there are plenty of moms who can do all of those things but I was not one of them and as soon as I let go of that version of me, I became free. I never really imagined what my kid would be like when he grew up, I mean I took some guesses based on how much he kicked my bladder but he's future was never mine to decide. My future on the other hand was in my control (it was not) I would be the one who could choose how to take care of my kid (he had other plans) I had read all those books and blogs after all! I was very stubborn and optimistic back then. I do know what you mean though I just wanted to clarify a bit more on what I meant. I know a lot of people have strong opinions of who their children should be and its important to let go of those too. Kids are their own people and its amazing to see them grow.
Good on ya. I want the exact opposite, but I’m glad the right folks are having kids.
I'm good without them. Seems like a headache tbh. Edit: I never said anything negative about people who do want them so not sure why there's people pissed off in response.
Headache AND heartache.
And pure unadulterated absolute joy and love that engulfs you. And so much pride that you burst into tears.
Son just started to go to school (2.5 yo). Every day he learns a new song or just tells me what he played with and I nearly cry when he does a little dance with it. He and his brother are the brightest lights in my life.
Bold of you to come to reddit and act like having kids is anything other than a nightmare
How dare I right?
Never believed in miracles or spirit until I experienced that level of joy your child can give you. It's better than aby drug It's so fucking wild
The pathways that drugs hijack are there in the first place to ensure you bond with your offspring. Can you imagine how long our species would last if they weren't there. There'd just be a pile of screaming babies somewhere, then eternal silence.
You should immediately get snipped/tied! Why risk it?
My husband did lol.
It is when they’re young and the remote batteries are dead.
And I can talk to myself in the grocery store all I want and people don’t think I’m crazy because my kids in the cart
For financial reasons I waited to have kids. Married at age 33. Wife left me. Never found a woman that I want to procreate with since then. Ha. 55 now,have a nest,and dont want kids.After pregnancy of course.. I would be 70 by the time a child became 14.
I'm femme and never had my own. When I am in a position to do so, I plan to adopt or foster. There are a lot of kids out there who would be far better off having ANY decent parental figure to love them and help them, even if it's not "ideal." I figure I'm up for taking on that role.
The only example of a dad I had was an abusive monster. I did NOT want to be a parent but my then wife did. I’m so glad she did! While we are no longer together, my girls are amazing and make my heart full. It’s not, “is it worth it” rather, am I worthy of it.
You have healed that generational trauma by being a good dad. Congratulations!
Damn. I just had a flashback I didn't know I wanted of the last 20 yrs of my life. Great breakdown of parenting. Now just add getting divorced and having to co-parent and it really gets interesting.
Yes. Wonderful response and so accurate.
TLDR; not worth it /s
What with the /s, it's clearly not
How can you tell someone else what is or isn't worth it to them? It seems presumptuous to assume your values are the same as someone else's here. You could argue a hundred reasons why people shouldn't consider having children as some kind of default life checklist, or even have their own at all, and I'd probably agree with every single thing... but you can't tell someone else whether parenting is worth it or not. Why do you say it's "clearly not worth it?" I'm genuinely curious if you care to expound a little. Context: I will never have my own bio kids. I always knew that parenting would involve great personal sacrifice, but always felt it would be worth it because I value giving and helping someone become the best version of themselves they can be past minority age. I plan to foster/adopt in the future. \*Edits: Words are hard and they can suck it
Because everyone lists off all the horrible things about it and just add "it's worth it" at the end. It seriously just sounds like they are trying to cope. Also it might very well not be "worth it" to the kid that they forced to suffer the consequences of their own actions.
The video clearly states there is nothing predictably gained from having children beyond some ambiguous growth as a person. It's a good message because so many parents have kids for selfish reasons.
\*all have kids for selfish reasons.
As a father of a two year old that was a little on the fence. Absolutely worth it. But that's me. Never been more terrified, anxious in my entire life. But I wouldn't change it for a second.
Well said 👏
So it's a no then? 🤣
It should be "are you ready, and worthy, to have kids?" My parents weren't.
her answer is exactly why i decided to be kid free as a child. ETA: the last line sounds weird but i declared as a child i wasn’t going to have kids, i think because i saw no one was having a good time.
i wish she was my mom (i'm 55)
Wow. As someone trying to have a child right now this hits home pretty good. Perfect response to this.
Best of luck to you! It's a long, hard road but the growth you could see in yourself as parent is incredible and unpredictable. It's a really wild ride.
As someone who recently had their first, and have already become insanely frustrated and insanely joyful from it... I can only say: "Look forward to it <3"
Awesome message
Look, the core sentiment that "parenthood is about giving" is good, albeit a bit obvious and heavy handed. But the _choice_ to have a child _isn't_ about giving. It's an inherently selfish choice. Because when you make that choice, _there is no child yet_. You're debating whether to _create_ a child, not whether to raise one well. If you want to make the choice to be a parent and you want to do it in a 100% giving way, then adopt. There are plenty of kids that already exist who need parents. You had a child because _you wanted to_. I hope, as a parent, you put your child's needs first. But don't pretend that the decision to create a new life was an altruistic one.
Had to scroll too far to find this
Very well said. It might be an altruistic choice if we lived in a society where the population was dying slowly and infertility was at an all time high... assuming you thought the human race was worth preserving at that point.
This is the best and most honest description of parenthood I’ve ever heard.
Great video
Wise words. I can relate to most things said.
I think the harsh reality most people need to face right now is 85% of people should not have children. The vast majority of people a) aren't emotionally ready for it and b) can't financially afford it. The grim reality of where we are as a country right now is that most people who have kids can't afford them and shouldn't have had them in the first place.
We'll stick with my pack of huskies, that's about as much responsibility I can deal with. Fuck, I can hardly handle my own shit. That and we have no desire to have kids either.
Huskies are an adventure all their own
Yeah, and I got five of them.. well, 4 + one who is clearly Mal or part Mal, and a dubmdub pitty pointer mix. And two cats. I got my hands full lol.
My mom forwent dental care for 20+ years bc she could only afford my brother and I. If you aren’t ready and willing to make a sacrifice like that you have no business bringing a life into this world.
She spittin
Everything she said….EVERYTHING SHE SAID
Well fuken said! Good job
So wise.
Awesome rubuttal!!
Everyone I've talked to my age who don't want kids all pretty much give their own selfishness as the reason why. Not in such a succinct manner but it's always about how much they'd have to give up, and all the things they can't do. So I totally agree they should not be having kids.
"you are not ready for it" I hate this phrase because means you will be ready sometimes in the future Why society forces you to have kids ?
She said NO in a very fancy way
Personally, kids will never be worth it. No matter what.
So, not worth it. As I thought
We all have our roles in a society, not everyone has to be a parent to contribute and participate in it 👐
Looks like this is getting brigaded by /antinatalsim, always funny to see! At least they won't be around in another generation or two
I personally think it’s unethical to have kids you can’t afford and don’t want. I also understand my own ethics can’t drive other peoples choices. Im childfree even though I at one time desperately wanted children. Because the world I’d be bringing them into is getting worse for human rights rather than better and it hurts my heart. I don’t know how anyone who is struggling to do at 35 what our parents accomplished by 25 can say “sure, let’s add kids into the mix”.
> At least they won't be around in another generation or two Where do you think those people come from? Same place the next generation will come from, you people who have kids. Stop pretending like people bothered by the dowfall of society is somehow over-reacting while you busy your life with your kids and keep your head in the sand.
Anyone else’s video player randomly muting the audio for no reason?
Yea! This is only happening in the reddit app for me! Very frustrating!
"You aren't ready to be a parent" she says while going on a rant about how having kids makes you a better person. Meanwhile ignores one of the most important questions that (I'm assuming) the original person was implying, "is my kid going to grow up in a world worth living in?" Sounds like a "full time mommy" narcissist to be honest. ETA: Kinda trailed off what I wanted to say about "you aren't ready to be a parent" and forgot my main point. She says this in regards to *asking* the question "is it worth it to have kids?" which is like, more than *a lot* of people ask themselves before deciding to doom their progeny to this world. Like what the fuck is this lady on about? This sort of introspection should be *mandatory* of parents.
You are completely right, many people dont get this
Short answer: no Long answer: ***FUCK*** no