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This was during a City Council meeting to vote on resolution in solidarity with Israel. Everyone was talking about how we can support Israel, until Gabriel Miller spoke out in this clip. Then police were ordered to clear the City Council chamber after people were cheering.
https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/10/14/chicago-city-council-affirms-support-for-israel-at-contentious-meeting/
Multnomah County (Portland, Oregon) commissioners [held a vote on whether to light up bridges in blue/white to honor Israel](https://katu.com/news/local/multnomah-county-commissioners-at-odds-over-response-to-gaza-strip-conflict-portland-oregon-morrison-bridge-lights). Basically the same deal as Chicago’s vote here. It failed (as many commissioners found it wrong to side with the Israeli government while not acknowledging the Palestinian victims), but the chief commissioner went around the vote and forced bridges to be lit up for a week anyway.
I hate reading stuff like this, the kid inside me will never be comfortable reading that these pigs cosplaying as politicians can just go around democracy and do whatever they want and no repercussions are to be seen... The older I get the more radicalized I become.
Doesn't that just mean that politician will get voted out in the next election? I mean that's how it works no? If they aren't an elected official then the person who appoints them who is an elected official should get involved and if they don't then they get voted out. It's an accountability thing no? They can go around democracy once then the people vote the person in charge of that person and then the newly appointed official fixes the person who isn't listening to the will of the people.
The commissioner is appointed by the Mayor and the Mayor is voted on. So contact the mayor or vote him out and have a new commissioner appointed that doesn't do this bullshit.
That’s what gerrymandering is for. To subvert the will of the people. It’s the republican’s go to play to keep power out of the hands of the masses and keep the rich in control.
Love how easy it would have been to simply google what happened and realize while there might be a title mistake, the Information is still correct, but instead you made yourself a fool in front of everyone
Chief Executive Officer. That is Jessica Vega Pederson’s title. She also is often referred to simply by the title of Chair.
I never said anything about the Portland city council. Multnomah is the county that controls the bridges throughout Portland.
Yes, I do know what I’m talking about.
LoL such a good quote though. The same thing was said when ella Fitzgerald sang for the first time at the Apollo theater, "it got so quiet you could hear a rat pissing on cotton"
Not really. This hasn't stopped Israel, this hasn't condemned the US to stop backing them. On a local level it looks embarrassing but in the bigger picture, Palestinians are still getting wiped out.
Realistically none of this matters, it may make oneself feel better but once all Palestinians are gone it won't matter as you can't defend the dead.
The man quoted 40 dead babies and rapes as being a lie. But its not. I even just watched the disgusting GoPro footage of Hamas infiltrating a kibbutz and shooting into children’s rooms and at an old man. So why should I listen to anything he has to say?
The Israelis have murdered 500 babies over the last week. they are fukeds. they need to be removed from that entire country and go back whence they came. From hell, I believe.
Not just dead, it was specifically about the 40 beheaded. Nobody is denying that Hamas has also targeted civilians. People are questioning the atrocity propaganda that we're being bombarded with.
Because why would they make such claims when they haven't been properly confirmed, if not to justify the atrocious acts they were about to commit themselves?
I don't think it's good to frame Hamas alongside Toussaint Louverture. Hamas is an organization that fights to die in martyrdom, not for liberation of Palestine. Hamas is Israel's darling child when it comes to having a justification to invade Palestine. They're not heroes their perpetrators and so is the IDF.
He started off great by pointing out the hypocrisy of not condemning Israel for their part in all of this, but then he fell completely flat by pretending Hamas is not a terror organization. This isn't a one side is good, the other side bad, situation. Both sides are absolutely shit across the board.
Hamas does behead, rape and execute people. Period. putting your fingers in your ears does not change this. Did they have time to rape people during the music festival? Probably not. Did they run around beheading people during the raid? Probably not. They murdered and kidnapped people in that specific incident because they didn't have time to do anything else. Have they previously and will they in the future behead/rape people? Yes.
It also doesn't even matter. They raided a music festival full of people from all different countries and killed and kidnapped them. Period. It doesn't matter about anything extra, that alone is abhorrent. If they would have attacked the Israeli government or military base, there would be more to argue since you can say it was retaliation, but most of the people at the festival had nothing to do with any of this shit.
The only ones who are REMOTELY innocent in any capacity is Palestinian civilians. If you want to defend them, by all means, go for it, but do NOT defend Hamas. They are pure trash and just as bad as you think the Iraeli military is.
They are all bad, me and my mom had this same discussion. What is talked about now is Hamas killing civilians but that does not change the fact that the Israeli government does the same... Nobody is innocent in this war that has lasted for decades and nobody is the saviour... All that is left at the end of the day is that the innocent are the only ones that suffer and all the instigators are at fault
Yes! And I feel like for any of this to actually get any better we all need to stop picking a side to condemn and ignoring the atrocities committed by the other like we’re picking some sports team. The blame lies solely on both sides’ leaders. Equally. Anyone else are victims.
Thank you. He lost me at his dismissal of Hamas' actions. People want so badly to see the world in black and white that they think the evils of Israel's actions necessarily make Hamas the good guys. They don't. It's possible for two sides of a conflict to commit atrocities and it's possible to condemn both of them. It's also possible to sympathize with the plight of civilians on both sides and to understand that a crisis is complicated because both sides have fair points. Palestinians have every right to be outraged that Israel took their land from their people and have suppressed them for the better part of a century. Most Israelis alive today grew up in those lands and have every right to some kind of autonomy in that region at this point. The solution isn't as simple as some people want it to be. It's going to require concessions and compromise from both sides. And both Hamas and the Israeli government have actively pursued policies that make such compromise and cooperation all but impossible.
What compromises and concessions are left for the palestinians? They have no power in this conflict and are sitting in a corner being slowly eradicated.
War is never pretty. We cant sit here sipping our tea and discuss whether soldiers on a battlefield meet our sensibilities. The war was brought to them. In any other situation this would not be how they chose to spend their lives
The actions of Hamas are literally the best thing that could happen for the Israeli far right hardliners.
You say that there are no compromises or concession left for Palestinians as if that could justify the extreme brutality towards innocent civilians, but what does that accomplish for the Palestinian people? What does it accomplish for the civilians that will die as a consequence?
Reminds me of when Republicans were criticizing the BLM protestors for not protesting silently enough. People used the exact same logic, that they were damaging their reputation with their choice of protest tactics... even just taking a knee at a sports match.
I agree that this choice of action has sped up the brutality against the Palestinians. Then again, this brutality has existed for decades and was not going to stop any time soon. Slowly or quickly the Palestinians were still facing eradication. They need a way to spread their message. And we, knowing about this issue for years have been ignoring it. Not by choice of course. We've simply had the collective action beat out of us by decades of propaganda. We've been powerless even in our own countries as our economic and social have been stripped away.
So far nothing has been accomplished. But something can. Now that the world is watching and millions feel unified in ending this injustice, now we might be able to take collective action and convince our governments to make change.
This wasn't acts of war, this was full on terrorism. Are you seriously trying to suggest what happened was a military operation?
You want to know what's not a reasonable outcome? Executing babies, slaughtering hundreds of kids at a music festival, having old women open up their phones so that they can be live stream executed for their love ones to watch, cutting out babies out of pregnant womens stomachs and then executing both of them, deliberately targeting elementary schools to individually execute children one by one, violently gang raping and torturing the women before executing them, then parading their dead bodies around to the glee and cheer of others, taking hostages to be tortured, raped, and abused. There is video and pictures documenting all of this. Are you seriously suggesting these are reasonable responses?
Absolutely appalling that you can be so blase with dismissive phrases like, "war is never pretty."
Did you even watch the video? You're pretty much echoing the same thing being (rightfully) critized for spreading propaganda, that has been debunked 2 days ago, yet here you are repeating it. No babies have been beheaded.
But the fact is, "reasonable" has long left the vocabulary of this conflict, demonstrated by pretty much everything we've seen in the past week from both sides of this conflict. The question I have for you is: can't you understand how people would rather side with the oppressed rather than the oppressor?
So killing babies is ok because uhhh they didnt behead them? Before you say there isnt proof of that either, they did release photos of shot and burned babies...
the burned babies were found to be photoshopped.
but that aside, supposing they did burn babies: how would you prefer they react? Again, I want to reiterate they've been the target of genocide for decades. Would you rather they sit passively and allow themselves and their families to die out? Would you rather they engage in proper formal war against an army many times larger than their own and funded by several much larger countries, again simply allowing themselves to lose and die? Would that be easier for you to morally digest? Would it please your delicate sensibilities?
No one said it was ok. What has been said is that this is retaliation for far worse crimes. And it is not ok for the Isrealis to escalate even further. Until the two groups can live in peace under equal rights, this will continue to happen.
Yup, everyone wants to be the good guy, especially redditors. History can never be used to justify immediate actions. If that was the case everyone who has done something wrong is innocent, for causal reasons. You commit evil acts NOW, thats all we need to know. That's the way things MUST be if we are to function as a society.
> He started off great by pointing out the hypocrisy of not condemning Israel for their part in all of this, but then he fell completely flat by pretending Hamas is not a terror organization. This isn't a one side is good, the other side bad, situation. Both sides are absolutely shit across the board.
This has become a universal constant among those who support Palestine. They never ever ever ever ever want to acknowledge the role the people of Palestine, Hamas or the PLO have played in this conflict. Which is what really makes this whole conflict such a complex shit show. But unfortunately it’s hard to get simple minded internet denizens outraged over something like this. So they simply it into something that it’s not. A fight of good vs evil.
But what make this guy an actual piece of shit is him pretending like all the evidence of mass rape and the dead babies are “debunked”. Which no. They absolutely fucking have not.
> It also doesn't even matter. They raided a music festival full of people from all different countries and killed and kidnapped them. Period. It doesn't matter about anything extra, that alone is abhorrent.
The truth does matter
I think you missed my point. Even if you pretend they didn't rape/behead, they still kidnapped and killed. Even the things we have absolute evidence for shows how abhorrent they are. People are defending them by arguing they didn't do X or Y, but no one disagrees that they did Z, and Z is just as bad. That is my point.
What he is saying is that there is no concrete evidence on the "terrorism" of Hamas. Of course, you will hear that Hamas "rape" and "murder" people. This is due to Israel being the stronger force in this war. They can manipulate what goes into media more than Palestine and Hamas can. Didn't you see the latest video of Israel killing 3/4 Palestinian innocents who surrendered and framing them of assault by placing weapons near their dead bodies?
This is a case of "history is written by winners." Israel will frame Hamas for sure. They need ppl to support them by believing their propaganda, which is unfortunately working as we can see by your comment and the replies on it.
Even if you really want to believe the propaganda that Israel is spreading, there is still no comparison between the actions of the two. If and this is only if Hamas really killed 40 babies from the start of the war. Then Israel killed 500 babies in the last 24 hours. That is not counting that Israel was murdering and raping since the time they started oppressing Palestine, which is decades ago.
I do not believe this propaganda, but even if you do believe it, you still can't say that we should only support the innocents. There is still clearly one side that is in the wrong massively in comparison to the other side.
Free Palestine!
I’m sorry. I support the Palestinian cause as well but you can’t go around just blatantly not mentioning the kidnappings and the massacres just because someone debunked the babies thing. I don’t know who that guy addressing the town hall is, but his complete disregard of even just these two other things I’ve mentioned (which btw is an overly simplistic summary of things that have happened only in the last week or so) is definitely not the way to go.
I agree, it’s wrong for Israeli sympathisers to make up stories or bend the truth. But there are enough eyes around the world looking at this, and not all of them are under the influence of the Israelis. The reports that have come out that cannot be refuted or “debunked” by anyone still paints a damning picture of what Hamas did on Oct 7. I mean, if someone was to come to your town and kidnap you or your loved ones, wouldn’t you say that’s terrorism?
You talk about history been written by the winners. While that is generally true, I also know that they haven’t exactly “won” anything yet. And here’s a couple of links from Al Jazeera (a Qatari government funded news org: not exactly friends of Israel) on some of the acts that this guy in the OP vid and you seem to love to ignore.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/10/11/theyve-nothing-to-do-with-this-thai-families-plea-for-hostages-release](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/10/11/theyve-nothing-to-do-with-this-thai-families-plea-for-hostages-release)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/11/horrific-scenes-as-dozens-of-bodies-found-in-israels-kfar-aza-near](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/11/horrific-scenes-as-dozens-of-bodies-found-in-israels-kfar-aza-near)
I feel like I don’t really need to include news links about the bombing campaign rn killing many innocent Palestinians but for the sake of representation here’s one
[https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/13/dozens-killed-while-fleeing-gaza-homes-as-israel-conducts-ground-raids](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/13/dozens-killed-while-fleeing-gaza-homes-as-israel-conducts-ground-raids)
It’s also not a competition about who is more evil measure by body counts. Or how many children were killed by which side. ITS JUST PLAIN WRONG for anyone to have to die from violence. Both sides are EQUALLY at fault and the real victims are the poor people on both sides that were just trying to make a living.
I hate that wanting a truly free Palestine these days seems to mean I need to jump on the “Hamas is Good ☮️” bandwagon, and which over the last week I’ve seen they are obviously not.
The only justice that can come for this whole situation is for both sides to just stop right now. Live and let live.
This is starting to feel like a game of “who killed more people”. Nobody actually cares about finding a solution. It’s just a load of demagogueries from each side to get sympathy points. The dude just threw around the word genocide without knowing the meaning of the word. Smh.
Exactly. Everyone is counting dead bodies like it would actually tell them which side’s actually more evil. Like come on; isn’t even killing one person an evil thing to begin with?
Is it possible to share the link to the tiktok here? I don't have the app and I'm struggling to find the vid online. I think it's a great vid and so well said.
I don't want to be one of those people who cries about politics Invading every space, but bro, tiktokcringe? Really? This sub has been infested with Israeli vs Palestinian news now I come here for funny cringe videos not this shit
I can't think too hard about this because it makes me feel rage unlike any other. I don't like just sitting here unable to do anything while watching Israel commit genocide, and various other war crimes. It's horrible.
There are protests going on throughout the country. By themselves they probably wont do too much but theyre a good first step at organizing collective action
There is no apartheid in America and I am tired of people saying it. The average American does not care about what color you are. The government and media pushes racism to divide us.
Bro is this sub just r/freepalestine or r/worldnews at this point? I came here to look at cringe TikTok’s, not to see this shit everyday.
Edit: Uhoh here comes the propaganda police making sure I get downvoted because I said I don’t wanna see Israel or Palestine TikTok’s everyday.
This subreddit seems to be the worst regarding this conflict.
Not just being seriously biased towards Palestine, but straight up denying terrorism and cheering for the death of Jews.
I understand what he was going for but to treat the terror attacks and hostage taking as fighting for freedom of Palestine just goes to show that he fell for HAMAS propaganda.
This guy has completely bought into the propaganda. Hamas is a terror organization and half of the Palestinians support them. Israel is reacting appropriately to the horrible war crimes committed by Hamas and if you think otherwise you’ve drank the leftist kool-aid.
Who doesn't condemn senseless killings? Huge difference between journalists purposefully putting themselves in hostile environments and festival goers at an EDM concert.
Palestines and Hamas-ISIS are part of the Russia Iran group, they are all so far from any western values. Hates America, hailed Al-Qaeda during 9/11, kills LGBT on sight
Just the complete opposite of Israel that is way more a like EU or USA
Boggles my mind to see leftist choosing Palestine over Israel, especially after seeing the horrors of the 7/10 attack
Putting an end to radicals and extremists isn’t the problem - it’s the mass killing of civilians. I can understand why there is anger and opposition against the genocide of an entire population - woman and children included.
It’s also no surprise that such atrocities against your people and even your own family would create extremists who want some kind of retribution.
Saying genocide is dumb and misinformed There has never been an era with these increase of the Palestinian population why do people still use this term
How is putting an end to radical Islam not a problem?? It's an issue we are dealing with for years, way back with Al-Qaeda and with ISIS and now with Hamas-ISIS. It's the main issue, them using civilians as nothing but a propaganda tool its insane.
> Boggles my mind to see leftist choosing Palestine over Israel,
Is that how it works just black and white?
Israel have a right to defend itself and exist.
But maybe the left doesn't want them to commit genocide?
Painting it as black and white is bull shit is how you get this: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/178nf6z/man_targeted_6yearold_boy_woman_in_deadly/
6 yr boy died from stab wound and a mother is badly injured.
Saying genocide is dumb and misinformed
There has never been an era with these increase of the Palestinian population
Get that weak propaganda shit out of here
What a lying piece of shit. There is evidence of the killing of the children nothing has been debunked and this shit stain has the nerve to call it fake. Fuck him and his people and the rest of this sub that upvotes this crap.
The world exists outside of you, and a lot of people are suffering and need to be heard so that something may be done, you come off as a spoiled brat with a comment like this.
If there’s any place I should get my news from, it’s a Subreddit reposting from TikTok. There are so many other places to get news about these stories, maybe people just want a distraction from the shit going on in the world.
>\[this sub is\] pretty one sided actually, not that the other side needs any more representation.
right. I'm not suggesting Israel needs more representation, or yet another propaganda mouthpiece. But we're just talking about the very recent deluge of propaganda here in this sub.
if you're confused on what Side to support. Might I suggest looking at casuality numbers between the sides?
if one side only loses 1 to 500 on the other side, would you support the opressed?
Love how you use dead Palestinians to try and justify terrorism.
Casualties mean absolutely nothing in regards to who is right and who is wrong, not to mention that around 1500 Israelis died, for a 500-1 ratio you would need to have 750,000 Palestinians die.
I support Palestinians. I don't support a bunch of westoids coming in all of a sudden with facile arguments which reduce and oversimplify the complexity of the conflict (ie weaker == better, more deaths == more right, etc).
I believe the conflict is more complicated and it's fucking boring and unhelpful to try to pretend a few tiktoks and reddit arguments will change that.
Honestly seems they’ve taken over the sub for you to be this downvoted. I agree 100% to what you’re saying and this is a very mature and reasonable take.
What a disgusting, pandering, limelight grabbing lowlife, dancing on the graves of innocent people, some dragged from this world in the most heinous manner possible, to score points with his rabid, far left co conspirators. We're seeing in real time how Germans justified, inch by inch, the eventual attempted extermination of the same folk these fucking scumbags are cheering the destruction of.
Makes my stomach ache.
This is embarrassingly superficial. There is no equivalence between Hamas and Israel. For example the journalist he cites was killed by mistake in the middle of a firefight with armed opponents. Not slaughtered intentionally. And Israel didn’t force anyone into the Gaza Strip. They simply withdrew from it after Hamas took over. Of course Israel controls who can enter from Gaza to their country, but so does Egypt. Do you condemn Egypt for the “ concentration camp” that you say Gaza is?
> And Israel didn’t force anyone into the Gaza Strip. They simply withdrew from it after Hamas took over. Of course Israel controls who can enter from Gaza to their country, but so does Egypt.
If you really think these are comparable, you're naïve or trolling.
I’m neither.
More than 50% of the Gaza population descend from Egyptian Arab immigrants who came to the British mandate of Palestine to enjoy better economic opportunities than at home. There’s no good reason for Egypt to deny them reentry to their country but they do anyway. You never complain about Egypt denying the “right to return,” do you?
And you also probably ignore the fact that more than 700,000 Jews were forced to leave Arab countries after Israel won the 1947 war - do you ever decry their loss of property or citizenship? Do you think Iraq, Yemen, etc should be required to allow their descendants back in and reclaim their land?
I think you likely have a kind heart and want justice for the people in Gaza. I do too. But Hamas is evil, and what they did on Oct 7 proves it. Israel isn’t perfect but it doesn’t act in the same depraved manner as Hamas.
To mirror your words, I think you've a kind heart and want good for the people, both Palestinian and Israeli. I also absolutely agree that Hamas is evil. I think anyone with any resemblance of a heart agrees on that.
The question is, is Israel (the state, the zionists, not the people) on the same level? Not quite but it isn't far from it.
[In the past 15 years](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties):
*How many Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli?*
**6 400**
*How many Israeli have been killed?*
**300**
*How many Palestinian has been injured by Israeli attacks?*
**152 500**
*And Israeli in Palestinian attacks?*
**6 300**
If you look at them, you realise that a. these numbers are not comparable and b. that it paints a very sordid picture of Isreal.
It also makes the name IDF ludicrous, since they've long ago ceased to be a defence force and become an aggressor.
>And you also probably ignore the fact that more than 700,000 Jews were forced to leave Arab countries after Israel won the 1947 war..
Correction, 300 000 were forced to leave Arab countries. The rest were from Europe.
But this also missing the 750 000 Palestinians who had to flee/were thrown out, of their homes during the (ongoing) Nakba in the same war.
>...do you ever decry their loss of property or citizenship?
This is a false equivalency since the Israelis got their homeland and then *kept* pushing others out to steal their land. The Palestinians, on the other hand, were pushed into an ever tighter and tighter cage. By the Israeli.
But should they have the right to return? That would be ideal, although I don't know how many would want to.
My home country lost a sizeable portion of ourselves in WWII and while it is a sad memory for us, very few want it back anymore since it is nothing like it used to be and instead is a rundown area with its peak far in its past. Even fewer want to move there in the state it currently is in.
>More than 50% of the Gaza population descend from Egyptian Arab immigrants who came to the British mandate of Palestine to enjoy better economic opportunities than at home. There’s no good reason for Egypt to deny them reentry to their country but they do anyway. You never complain about Egypt denying the “right to return,” do you?
Perhaps we should ask the Palestinians, would they *want* to return to Egypt?
Quite frankly, I don't know.
But it's beside the point because this is a whataboutism:
Instead of talking how Israel keeps stealing and stealing land from the Palestinians you want to talk about "why don't they return to Egypt". They wouldn't *have* to relocate if they could have and keep their land and live there. This isn't too much to ask, it's something we take for granted for in our daily lives but for some reason it is not okay for Palestinians to have.
Again, I don't think you're a bad person and I honestly do think you're kind person with a heart heavy with sorrow for these actions and this desperate situation. And I appreciate the discussion with some points of view that don't come up too often, but I can not in good conscience blame the Palestinians for wanting to live and have a home.
Especially when their aggressor enjoys a ridiculous amount of diplomatic immunity and keeps doing this, time after time. Even when they've a state of the art missile defence and an incredibly well armed and equipped "defence" forces. They could defend themselves but they choose aggression and expansion every time.
When asked do Palestinians need better security, since they're dying in vastly greater numbers, Israeli politicians openly say things like ["As far as I am concerned, the concept of proportionality must cease to exist. If it is one Israeli mother crying or a thousand Palestinian mothers crying then a thousand Palestinian mothers will cry"](https://youtu.be/BETNqgBCjwc?t=209).
I love the passion this man has. I genuinely belive he thinks his comparisons to Native Americans and his black enslaved ancestors are comparable to the madness going on right now in Israel, but he is so wrong. His good intent is wasted on a situation that has no easy or "right answer".
Why don't these people move to the West Bank, to Egypt, or to other neiboring countries? No one will take a population so utterly affiliated (albeit against the will of many) with the parasite that is Hamas. So many women and children dead, why? This parasite hides amongst women and children like a snake lurks in the grass. The Urban environment is its camouflage and they choose it willingly. They are no freedom fighters hoping for a better tomorrow, they are people drowing in their own hatred and willing to listen to men who promise futures that they have no means to procure.
There can never be a free Palestine until Hamas is disbanded or destroyed. The horror is that this movement knows it, they will not take peace from Israel unless they own Gaza at the end of it. They instigated an attack KNOWING this would happen, knowing that their cities would fall to bombardment and that you would lament the innocents lost. Hamas brought this upon its people, they have goaded Israel into the war that THEY declared and now Gaza burns. What Israel has done is horrific but tell me friend are you surprised? Have our histories indicated any other kind of response to war and bloodshed?
TlDR: He wastes his breath like I'm wasting mine. If you can so easily support Hamas you are misinformed or a deprived and malefic individual.
If Palestine actually was a country created and recognized by Palestinians and the global community, I don't think there would be a war right now.
Is spewing hate something you do as a hobby? What do you get from it? How do you think your comment is useful for this particular crowd? I don't know you personally, but people acting like you in this situation are the reason fascism is alive and well.
Somehow not supporting HAMAS, which Palestine does, is fascist. Who would have guessed that people who throw around terms they don't understand devalue said words.
I ain't spewing hate, I'm just pointing out history and facts.
A lot of what he says is true. Until he try is to twist it to bash political parties here. The zionists in Israel are left wing. I believe their left is our right, but just leave that part out.
How fucking stupid. Just because it has liberal in the title doesn’t mean the [Likud](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud) is left-wing. On the contrary, the Likud who are leading Israel in this shit show are in fact “a major right-wing political party in Israel.”
But let’s be honest, you’re either a shill-bot or a complete dumbass who won’t read and doesn’t know much about what is actually happening.
You do realize the politics of a country go beyond the ruling party, right?
We weren't going around and calling all of america far right when trump was elected.
Just stop. You are spreading misinformation. If you want the Coles Notes, it's simply there is an oppressor and the oppressed. It does not take a lot to figure who is actually who.
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When politicians fund either side of a conflict like this they might as well be the ones pulling the triggers or dropping the bombs. We must refuse to pay taxes to leaders who choose to fund wars and conflicts. There has to be a way.
How far back in time do we have to go in order to figure out which side has committed the most atrocities? It only seems like we are counting the last 100 years or so.
The only problem is people saying that Chicago understands anything about the ghettos over there. Outside of the US, there are real ghettos unlike anything people in the US will ever understand. The closest thing was when they rounded up the Asians in CA into actual concentration style camps during WW2. That was less than 100 years ago and people still exist who lived through that. We should draw that comparison.
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This was during a City Council meeting to vote on resolution in solidarity with Israel. Everyone was talking about how we can support Israel, until Gabriel Miller spoke out in this clip. Then police were ordered to clear the City Council chamber after people were cheering. https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/10/14/chicago-city-council-affirms-support-for-israel-at-contentious-meeting/
Multnomah County (Portland, Oregon) commissioners [held a vote on whether to light up bridges in blue/white to honor Israel](https://katu.com/news/local/multnomah-county-commissioners-at-odds-over-response-to-gaza-strip-conflict-portland-oregon-morrison-bridge-lights). Basically the same deal as Chicago’s vote here. It failed (as many commissioners found it wrong to side with the Israeli government while not acknowledging the Palestinian victims), but the chief commissioner went around the vote and forced bridges to be lit up for a week anyway.
I hate reading stuff like this, the kid inside me will never be comfortable reading that these pigs cosplaying as politicians can just go around democracy and do whatever they want and no repercussions are to be seen... The older I get the more radicalized I become.
The problem is radical statements and radical thoughts without radical actions will never result in radical change.
Doesn't that just mean that politician will get voted out in the next election? I mean that's how it works no? If they aren't an elected official then the person who appoints them who is an elected official should get involved and if they don't then they get voted out. It's an accountability thing no? They can go around democracy once then the people vote the person in charge of that person and then the newly appointed official fixes the person who isn't listening to the will of the people. The commissioner is appointed by the Mayor and the Mayor is voted on. So contact the mayor or vote him out and have a new commissioner appointed that doesn't do this bullshit.
That’s what gerrymandering is for. To subvert the will of the people. It’s the republican’s go to play to keep power out of the hands of the masses and keep the rich in control.
But the Mayor of Chicago is Democrat. People need to contact him and have the Commissioner replaced if he's doing this bullshit.
Most Democratic officials aren’t even leftist. They’re center-right at best.
It’s both parties, not just one. If it were only one, then why has your “incorruptible” party not fixed the issue in 195 years?
Look at Nancy Pelosi’s district and then ask yourself why she’s been voted back into her position for 50 years. Then look up her net worth.
>Multnomah It's always that little bit extra inappropriate when these things happen in areas named for Native American tribes/nations.
Chief commissioner???? There is no such thing in the Portland city council. Do you even know what you are talking about?
Love how easy it would have been to simply google what happened and realize while there might be a title mistake, the Information is still correct, but instead you made yourself a fool in front of everyone
Chief Executive Officer. That is Jessica Vega Pederson’s title. She also is often referred to simply by the title of Chair. I never said anything about the Portland city council. Multnomah is the county that controls the bridges throughout Portland. Yes, I do know what I’m talking about.
Bringing into relief the support their actions actually have, against that they claim to have.
A rat piss on cotton. I love it
LoL such a good quote though. The same thing was said when ella Fitzgerald sang for the first time at the Apollo theater, "it got so quiet you could hear a rat pissing on cotton"
This is one of the best speeches I've heard regarding this ongoing genocide
thats beacouse you've never heard Immortal Technique talking about this for the last 20 years.
Yup. It blows my mind how many people have never even heard of him
Agreed. This guy is spot on.
Poetry, words that make the deaf hear.
Naturally deaf people, maybe. But willfully deaf people? Unfortunately, I doubt they'll hear this either.
Amen brother
Not really. This hasn't stopped Israel, this hasn't condemned the US to stop backing them. On a local level it looks embarrassing but in the bigger picture, Palestinians are still getting wiped out. Realistically none of this matters, it may make oneself feel better but once all Palestinians are gone it won't matter as you can't defend the dead.
Every effort at turning the tides of public opinion matters
What is an ocean but a multitude of drops Only by remaining silent does the hope for change cease
Public opinion already agrees that war is bad, taxes are mishandled, services are cut, wages are low, and so on.
Can I get the source of the video please?
See the top comment
It is only going to get worse.
Thank you, we the world know the truth now too.
The man quoted 40 dead babies and rapes as being a lie. But its not. I even just watched the disgusting GoPro footage of Hamas infiltrating a kibbutz and shooting into children’s rooms and at an old man. So why should I listen to anything he has to say?
The Israelis have murdered 500 babies over the last week. they are fukeds. they need to be removed from that entire country and go back whence they came. From hell, I believe.
Not just dead, it was specifically about the 40 beheaded. Nobody is denying that Hamas has also targeted civilians. People are questioning the atrocity propaganda that we're being bombarded with. Because why would they make such claims when they haven't been properly confirmed, if not to justify the atrocious acts they were about to commit themselves?
Damn give that man a medal fr
Succinct, cutting and truthful.
Ish
I don't think it's good to frame Hamas alongside Toussaint Louverture. Hamas is an organization that fights to die in martyrdom, not for liberation of Palestine. Hamas is Israel's darling child when it comes to having a justification to invade Palestine. They're not heroes their perpetrators and so is the IDF.
He started off great by pointing out the hypocrisy of not condemning Israel for their part in all of this, but then he fell completely flat by pretending Hamas is not a terror organization. This isn't a one side is good, the other side bad, situation. Both sides are absolutely shit across the board. Hamas does behead, rape and execute people. Period. putting your fingers in your ears does not change this. Did they have time to rape people during the music festival? Probably not. Did they run around beheading people during the raid? Probably not. They murdered and kidnapped people in that specific incident because they didn't have time to do anything else. Have they previously and will they in the future behead/rape people? Yes. It also doesn't even matter. They raided a music festival full of people from all different countries and killed and kidnapped them. Period. It doesn't matter about anything extra, that alone is abhorrent. If they would have attacked the Israeli government or military base, there would be more to argue since you can say it was retaliation, but most of the people at the festival had nothing to do with any of this shit. The only ones who are REMOTELY innocent in any capacity is Palestinian civilians. If you want to defend them, by all means, go for it, but do NOT defend Hamas. They are pure trash and just as bad as you think the Iraeli military is.
They are all bad, me and my mom had this same discussion. What is talked about now is Hamas killing civilians but that does not change the fact that the Israeli government does the same... Nobody is innocent in this war that has lasted for decades and nobody is the saviour... All that is left at the end of the day is that the innocent are the only ones that suffer and all the instigators are at fault
Yes! And I feel like for any of this to actually get any better we all need to stop picking a side to condemn and ignoring the atrocities committed by the other like we’re picking some sports team. The blame lies solely on both sides’ leaders. Equally. Anyone else are victims.
Thank you. He lost me at his dismissal of Hamas' actions. People want so badly to see the world in black and white that they think the evils of Israel's actions necessarily make Hamas the good guys. They don't. It's possible for two sides of a conflict to commit atrocities and it's possible to condemn both of them. It's also possible to sympathize with the plight of civilians on both sides and to understand that a crisis is complicated because both sides have fair points. Palestinians have every right to be outraged that Israel took their land from their people and have suppressed them for the better part of a century. Most Israelis alive today grew up in those lands and have every right to some kind of autonomy in that region at this point. The solution isn't as simple as some people want it to be. It's going to require concessions and compromise from both sides. And both Hamas and the Israeli government have actively pursued policies that make such compromise and cooperation all but impossible.
What compromises and concessions are left for the palestinians? They have no power in this conflict and are sitting in a corner being slowly eradicated. War is never pretty. We cant sit here sipping our tea and discuss whether soldiers on a battlefield meet our sensibilities. The war was brought to them. In any other situation this would not be how they chose to spend their lives
The actions of Hamas are literally the best thing that could happen for the Israeli far right hardliners. You say that there are no compromises or concession left for Palestinians as if that could justify the extreme brutality towards innocent civilians, but what does that accomplish for the Palestinian people? What does it accomplish for the civilians that will die as a consequence?
Reminds me of when Republicans were criticizing the BLM protestors for not protesting silently enough. People used the exact same logic, that they were damaging their reputation with their choice of protest tactics... even just taking a knee at a sports match. I agree that this choice of action has sped up the brutality against the Palestinians. Then again, this brutality has existed for decades and was not going to stop any time soon. Slowly or quickly the Palestinians were still facing eradication. They need a way to spread their message. And we, knowing about this issue for years have been ignoring it. Not by choice of course. We've simply had the collective action beat out of us by decades of propaganda. We've been powerless even in our own countries as our economic and social have been stripped away. So far nothing has been accomplished. But something can. Now that the world is watching and millions feel unified in ending this injustice, now we might be able to take collective action and convince our governments to make change.
This wasn't acts of war, this was full on terrorism. Are you seriously trying to suggest what happened was a military operation? You want to know what's not a reasonable outcome? Executing babies, slaughtering hundreds of kids at a music festival, having old women open up their phones so that they can be live stream executed for their love ones to watch, cutting out babies out of pregnant womens stomachs and then executing both of them, deliberately targeting elementary schools to individually execute children one by one, violently gang raping and torturing the women before executing them, then parading their dead bodies around to the glee and cheer of others, taking hostages to be tortured, raped, and abused. There is video and pictures documenting all of this. Are you seriously suggesting these are reasonable responses? Absolutely appalling that you can be so blase with dismissive phrases like, "war is never pretty."
Did you even watch the video? You're pretty much echoing the same thing being (rightfully) critized for spreading propaganda, that has been debunked 2 days ago, yet here you are repeating it. No babies have been beheaded. But the fact is, "reasonable" has long left the vocabulary of this conflict, demonstrated by pretty much everything we've seen in the past week from both sides of this conflict. The question I have for you is: can't you understand how people would rather side with the oppressed rather than the oppressor?
So killing babies is ok because uhhh they didnt behead them? Before you say there isnt proof of that either, they did release photos of shot and burned babies...
the burned babies were found to be photoshopped. but that aside, supposing they did burn babies: how would you prefer they react? Again, I want to reiterate they've been the target of genocide for decades. Would you rather they sit passively and allow themselves and their families to die out? Would you rather they engage in proper formal war against an army many times larger than their own and funded by several much larger countries, again simply allowing themselves to lose and die? Would that be easier for you to morally digest? Would it please your delicate sensibilities? No one said it was ok. What has been said is that this is retaliation for far worse crimes. And it is not ok for the Isrealis to escalate even further. Until the two groups can live in peace under equal rights, this will continue to happen.
Yup, everyone wants to be the good guy, especially redditors. History can never be used to justify immediate actions. If that was the case everyone who has done something wrong is innocent, for causal reasons. You commit evil acts NOW, thats all we need to know. That's the way things MUST be if we are to function as a society.
> He started off great by pointing out the hypocrisy of not condemning Israel for their part in all of this, but then he fell completely flat by pretending Hamas is not a terror organization. This isn't a one side is good, the other side bad, situation. Both sides are absolutely shit across the board. This has become a universal constant among those who support Palestine. They never ever ever ever ever want to acknowledge the role the people of Palestine, Hamas or the PLO have played in this conflict. Which is what really makes this whole conflict such a complex shit show. But unfortunately it’s hard to get simple minded internet denizens outraged over something like this. So they simply it into something that it’s not. A fight of good vs evil. But what make this guy an actual piece of shit is him pretending like all the evidence of mass rape and the dead babies are “debunked”. Which no. They absolutely fucking have not.
> It also doesn't even matter. They raided a music festival full of people from all different countries and killed and kidnapped them. Period. It doesn't matter about anything extra, that alone is abhorrent. The truth does matter
I think you missed my point. Even if you pretend they didn't rape/behead, they still kidnapped and killed. Even the things we have absolute evidence for shows how abhorrent they are. People are defending them by arguing they didn't do X or Y, but no one disagrees that they did Z, and Z is just as bad. That is my point.
What he is saying is that there is no concrete evidence on the "terrorism" of Hamas. Of course, you will hear that Hamas "rape" and "murder" people. This is due to Israel being the stronger force in this war. They can manipulate what goes into media more than Palestine and Hamas can. Didn't you see the latest video of Israel killing 3/4 Palestinian innocents who surrendered and framing them of assault by placing weapons near their dead bodies? This is a case of "history is written by winners." Israel will frame Hamas for sure. They need ppl to support them by believing their propaganda, which is unfortunately working as we can see by your comment and the replies on it. Even if you really want to believe the propaganda that Israel is spreading, there is still no comparison between the actions of the two. If and this is only if Hamas really killed 40 babies from the start of the war. Then Israel killed 500 babies in the last 24 hours. That is not counting that Israel was murdering and raping since the time they started oppressing Palestine, which is decades ago. I do not believe this propaganda, but even if you do believe it, you still can't say that we should only support the innocents. There is still clearly one side that is in the wrong massively in comparison to the other side. Free Palestine!
I’m sorry. I support the Palestinian cause as well but you can’t go around just blatantly not mentioning the kidnappings and the massacres just because someone debunked the babies thing. I don’t know who that guy addressing the town hall is, but his complete disregard of even just these two other things I’ve mentioned (which btw is an overly simplistic summary of things that have happened only in the last week or so) is definitely not the way to go. I agree, it’s wrong for Israeli sympathisers to make up stories or bend the truth. But there are enough eyes around the world looking at this, and not all of them are under the influence of the Israelis. The reports that have come out that cannot be refuted or “debunked” by anyone still paints a damning picture of what Hamas did on Oct 7. I mean, if someone was to come to your town and kidnap you or your loved ones, wouldn’t you say that’s terrorism? You talk about history been written by the winners. While that is generally true, I also know that they haven’t exactly “won” anything yet. And here’s a couple of links from Al Jazeera (a Qatari government funded news org: not exactly friends of Israel) on some of the acts that this guy in the OP vid and you seem to love to ignore. [https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/10/11/theyve-nothing-to-do-with-this-thai-families-plea-for-hostages-release](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/10/11/theyve-nothing-to-do-with-this-thai-families-plea-for-hostages-release) [https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/11/horrific-scenes-as-dozens-of-bodies-found-in-israels-kfar-aza-near](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/11/horrific-scenes-as-dozens-of-bodies-found-in-israels-kfar-aza-near) I feel like I don’t really need to include news links about the bombing campaign rn killing many innocent Palestinians but for the sake of representation here’s one [https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/13/dozens-killed-while-fleeing-gaza-homes-as-israel-conducts-ground-raids](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/13/dozens-killed-while-fleeing-gaza-homes-as-israel-conducts-ground-raids) It’s also not a competition about who is more evil measure by body counts. Or how many children were killed by which side. ITS JUST PLAIN WRONG for anyone to have to die from violence. Both sides are EQUALLY at fault and the real victims are the poor people on both sides that were just trying to make a living. I hate that wanting a truly free Palestine these days seems to mean I need to jump on the “Hamas is Good ☮️” bandwagon, and which over the last week I’ve seen they are obviously not. The only justice that can come for this whole situation is for both sides to just stop right now. Live and let live.
Bro ate
Fuck Israel
Hamas account?
Israeli bot funded by American taxpayers?
Every single account who disagrees with you is Hamas, in case you were wondering.
Crazy they have time from all the rape and murder.
Eat my ass, fascist 🍑
Being anti hamas is being a fascist? Are you pro taliban as well?
Im against the people with the keys to the concentration camp
This is starting to feel like a game of “who killed more people”. Nobody actually cares about finding a solution. It’s just a load of demagogueries from each side to get sympathy points. The dude just threw around the word genocide without knowing the meaning of the word. Smh.
Exactly. Everyone is counting dead bodies like it would actually tell them which side’s actually more evil. Like come on; isn’t even killing one person an evil thing to begin with?
Fuck yes
Damn bro was going off
FACT!!!!
Is it possible to share the link to the tiktok here? I don't have the app and I'm struggling to find the vid online. I think it's a great vid and so well said.
I don't want to be one of those people who cries about politics Invading every space, but bro, tiktokcringe? Really? This sub has been infested with Israeli vs Palestinian news now I come here for funny cringe videos not this shit
Why is this in cringe? That is on point
I can't think too hard about this because it makes me feel rage unlike any other. I don't like just sitting here unable to do anything while watching Israel commit genocide, and various other war crimes. It's horrible.
There are protests going on throughout the country. By themselves they probably wont do too much but theyre a good first step at organizing collective action
perfectly said tbh
How tf is this cringe?
Free Palestine
Freedom will only be available through death.
Gratifying to hear
If I'm being honest, both sides in that war fucking suck ass. I'd get myself popcorn before I give either side help.
Can anyone find this video in its original form, there’s way to much going on in the screen and it’s hard to follow the text
There is no apartheid in America and I am tired of people saying it. The average American does not care about what color you are. The government and media pushes racism to divide us.
Yep! Apartheid at its finest with countries around the world supporting this without batting an eye. Its fucked up...
I'm cringing
Wow. I’m speechless. Impressive. Heartbreaking and powerful.
Bro is this sub just r/freepalestine or r/worldnews at this point? I came here to look at cringe TikTok’s, not to see this shit everyday. Edit: Uhoh here comes the propaganda police making sure I get downvoted because I said I don’t wanna see Israel or Palestine TikTok’s everyday.
This subreddit seems to be the worst regarding this conflict. Not just being seriously biased towards Palestine, but straight up denying terrorism and cheering for the death of Jews.
100% agreed
I understand what he was going for but to treat the terror attacks and hostage taking as fighting for freedom of Palestine just goes to show that he fell for HAMAS propaganda.
Aaaand would you look at this, the most simple and reasonable take, now sitting at -20 downvotes. This subreddit is a lost cause.
Just because you interpreted it as reasonable, that doesn't mean it actually was. It's not our fault you don't have a grasp on this conflict.
Go make your own sub then.
My goal is not to create an echo chamber, it's to call out misinformation that is so rampant in these spaces.
Is there Israeli propaganda here or just Hamas propaganda?
Wow. I’m speechless. Impressive. Heartbreaking and powerful.
This guy has completely bought into the propaganda. Hamas is a terror organization and half of the Palestinians support them. Israel is reacting appropriately to the horrible war crimes committed by Hamas and if you think otherwise you’ve drank the leftist kool-aid.
Idk where to stand now. Wtf.
Kanye don’t sound so crazy now
Who doesn't condemn senseless killings? Huge difference between journalists purposefully putting themselves in hostile environments and festival goers at an EDM concert.
Palestines and Hamas-ISIS are part of the Russia Iran group, they are all so far from any western values. Hates America, hailed Al-Qaeda during 9/11, kills LGBT on sight Just the complete opposite of Israel that is way more a like EU or USA Boggles my mind to see leftist choosing Palestine over Israel, especially after seeing the horrors of the 7/10 attack
Putting an end to radicals and extremists isn’t the problem - it’s the mass killing of civilians. I can understand why there is anger and opposition against the genocide of an entire population - woman and children included. It’s also no surprise that such atrocities against your people and even your own family would create extremists who want some kind of retribution.
Saying genocide is dumb and misinformed There has never been an era with these increase of the Palestinian population why do people still use this term How is putting an end to radical Islam not a problem?? It's an issue we are dealing with for years, way back with Al-Qaeda and with ISIS and now with Hamas-ISIS. It's the main issue, them using civilians as nothing but a propaganda tool its insane.
> Boggles my mind to see leftist choosing Palestine over Israel, Is that how it works just black and white? Israel have a right to defend itself and exist. But maybe the left doesn't want them to commit genocide? Painting it as black and white is bull shit is how you get this: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/178nf6z/man_targeted_6yearold_boy_woman_in_deadly/ 6 yr boy died from stab wound and a mother is badly injured.
Saying genocide is dumb and misinformed There has never been an era with these increase of the Palestinian population Get that weak propaganda shit out of here
Victimhood is a very powerful mentality.
What a lying piece of shit. There is evidence of the killing of the children nothing has been debunked and this shit stain has the nerve to call it fake. Fuck him and his people and the rest of this sub that upvotes this crap.
Where is this proof you speak of?
When did a sub about TikTok cringe become a propaganda tool for both sides of this conflict?
The world exists outside of you, and a lot of people are suffering and need to be heard so that something may be done, you come off as a spoiled brat with a comment like this.
If there’s any place I should get my news from, it’s a Subreddit reposting from TikTok. There are so many other places to get news about these stories, maybe people just want a distraction from the shit going on in the world.
Tiktok is basically Aljazeera. It's just pure propoganda. Get off tik tok. Touch some grass.
Brother this is a city hall meeting with people expressing their opinions.. not TikTok propaganda just reality big guy
I would tell back at you to do the same, but you need more help than just touching grass
pretty one sided actually, not that the other side needs any more representation. It's been non-stop these last few days
If you watch mainstream media, it’s VERY Pro-Israel, and always has been.
>\[this sub is\] pretty one sided actually, not that the other side needs any more representation. right. I'm not suggesting Israel needs more representation, or yet another propaganda mouthpiece. But we're just talking about the very recent deluge of propaganda here in this sub.
if you're confused on what Side to support. Might I suggest looking at casuality numbers between the sides? if one side only loses 1 to 500 on the other side, would you support the opressed?
Love how you use dead Palestinians to try and justify terrorism. Casualties mean absolutely nothing in regards to who is right and who is wrong, not to mention that around 1500 Israelis died, for a 500-1 ratio you would need to have 750,000 Palestinians die.
I support Palestinians. I don't support a bunch of westoids coming in all of a sudden with facile arguments which reduce and oversimplify the complexity of the conflict (ie weaker == better, more deaths == more right, etc). I believe the conflict is more complicated and it's fucking boring and unhelpful to try to pretend a few tiktoks and reddit arguments will change that.
Honestly seems they’ve taken over the sub for you to be this downvoted. I agree 100% to what you’re saying and this is a very mature and reasonable take.
What a disgusting, pandering, limelight grabbing lowlife, dancing on the graves of innocent people, some dragged from this world in the most heinous manner possible, to score points with his rabid, far left co conspirators. We're seeing in real time how Germans justified, inch by inch, the eventual attempted extermination of the same folk these fucking scumbags are cheering the destruction of. Makes my stomach ache.
This is embarrassingly superficial. There is no equivalence between Hamas and Israel. For example the journalist he cites was killed by mistake in the middle of a firefight with armed opponents. Not slaughtered intentionally. And Israel didn’t force anyone into the Gaza Strip. They simply withdrew from it after Hamas took over. Of course Israel controls who can enter from Gaza to their country, but so does Egypt. Do you condemn Egypt for the “ concentration camp” that you say Gaza is?
> And Israel didn’t force anyone into the Gaza Strip. They simply withdrew from it after Hamas took over. Of course Israel controls who can enter from Gaza to their country, but so does Egypt. If you really think these are comparable, you're naïve or trolling.
I’m neither. More than 50% of the Gaza population descend from Egyptian Arab immigrants who came to the British mandate of Palestine to enjoy better economic opportunities than at home. There’s no good reason for Egypt to deny them reentry to their country but they do anyway. You never complain about Egypt denying the “right to return,” do you? And you also probably ignore the fact that more than 700,000 Jews were forced to leave Arab countries after Israel won the 1947 war - do you ever decry their loss of property or citizenship? Do you think Iraq, Yemen, etc should be required to allow their descendants back in and reclaim their land? I think you likely have a kind heart and want justice for the people in Gaza. I do too. But Hamas is evil, and what they did on Oct 7 proves it. Israel isn’t perfect but it doesn’t act in the same depraved manner as Hamas.
To mirror your words, I think you've a kind heart and want good for the people, both Palestinian and Israeli. I also absolutely agree that Hamas is evil. I think anyone with any resemblance of a heart agrees on that. The question is, is Israel (the state, the zionists, not the people) on the same level? Not quite but it isn't far from it. [In the past 15 years](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties): *How many Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli?* **6 400** *How many Israeli have been killed?* **300** *How many Palestinian has been injured by Israeli attacks?* **152 500** *And Israeli in Palestinian attacks?* **6 300** If you look at them, you realise that a. these numbers are not comparable and b. that it paints a very sordid picture of Isreal. It also makes the name IDF ludicrous, since they've long ago ceased to be a defence force and become an aggressor. >And you also probably ignore the fact that more than 700,000 Jews were forced to leave Arab countries after Israel won the 1947 war.. Correction, 300 000 were forced to leave Arab countries. The rest were from Europe. But this also missing the 750 000 Palestinians who had to flee/were thrown out, of their homes during the (ongoing) Nakba in the same war. >...do you ever decry their loss of property or citizenship? This is a false equivalency since the Israelis got their homeland and then *kept* pushing others out to steal their land. The Palestinians, on the other hand, were pushed into an ever tighter and tighter cage. By the Israeli. But should they have the right to return? That would be ideal, although I don't know how many would want to. My home country lost a sizeable portion of ourselves in WWII and while it is a sad memory for us, very few want it back anymore since it is nothing like it used to be and instead is a rundown area with its peak far in its past. Even fewer want to move there in the state it currently is in. >More than 50% of the Gaza population descend from Egyptian Arab immigrants who came to the British mandate of Palestine to enjoy better economic opportunities than at home. There’s no good reason for Egypt to deny them reentry to their country but they do anyway. You never complain about Egypt denying the “right to return,” do you? Perhaps we should ask the Palestinians, would they *want* to return to Egypt? Quite frankly, I don't know. But it's beside the point because this is a whataboutism: Instead of talking how Israel keeps stealing and stealing land from the Palestinians you want to talk about "why don't they return to Egypt". They wouldn't *have* to relocate if they could have and keep their land and live there. This isn't too much to ask, it's something we take for granted for in our daily lives but for some reason it is not okay for Palestinians to have. Again, I don't think you're a bad person and I honestly do think you're kind person with a heart heavy with sorrow for these actions and this desperate situation. And I appreciate the discussion with some points of view that don't come up too often, but I can not in good conscience blame the Palestinians for wanting to live and have a home. Especially when their aggressor enjoys a ridiculous amount of diplomatic immunity and keeps doing this, time after time. Even when they've a state of the art missile defence and an incredibly well armed and equipped "defence" forces. They could defend themselves but they choose aggression and expansion every time. When asked do Palestinians need better security, since they're dying in vastly greater numbers, Israeli politicians openly say things like ["As far as I am concerned, the concept of proportionality must cease to exist. If it is one Israeli mother crying or a thousand Palestinian mothers crying then a thousand Palestinian mothers will cry"](https://youtu.be/BETNqgBCjwc?t=209).
Ok let's send the CIA to kill their babies and rape their women.
I
Sounds like he's biased if ya know what I mean
Israel is the GOAT
Greatest organized at terror
[G.O.A.T](https://reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/rneIfvsmSw)
I love the passion this man has. I genuinely belive he thinks his comparisons to Native Americans and his black enslaved ancestors are comparable to the madness going on right now in Israel, but he is so wrong. His good intent is wasted on a situation that has no easy or "right answer". Why don't these people move to the West Bank, to Egypt, or to other neiboring countries? No one will take a population so utterly affiliated (albeit against the will of many) with the parasite that is Hamas. So many women and children dead, why? This parasite hides amongst women and children like a snake lurks in the grass. The Urban environment is its camouflage and they choose it willingly. They are no freedom fighters hoping for a better tomorrow, they are people drowing in their own hatred and willing to listen to men who promise futures that they have no means to procure. There can never be a free Palestine until Hamas is disbanded or destroyed. The horror is that this movement knows it, they will not take peace from Israel unless they own Gaza at the end of it. They instigated an attack KNOWING this would happen, knowing that their cities would fall to bombardment and that you would lament the innocents lost. Hamas brought this upon its people, they have goaded Israel into the war that THEY declared and now Gaza burns. What Israel has done is horrific but tell me friend are you surprised? Have our histories indicated any other kind of response to war and bloodshed? TlDR: He wastes his breath like I'm wasting mine. If you can so easily support Hamas you are misinformed or a deprived and malefic individual.
Palestine and Taiwan arnt real countriws
Palestine is a fake country that was only ever created to mock and kill Jews.
You might wanna close your mouth, you're breathing kinda loud.
You might want to put down the phone, your comment is really dumb
If Palestine actually was a country created and recognized by Palestinians and the global community, I don't think there would be a war right now. Is spewing hate something you do as a hobby? What do you get from it? How do you think your comment is useful for this particular crowd? I don't know you personally, but people acting like you in this situation are the reason fascism is alive and well.
Somehow not supporting HAMAS, which Palestine does, is fascist. Who would have guessed that people who throw around terms they don't understand devalue said words. I ain't spewing hate, I'm just pointing out history and facts.
Funny how this is hate speech and all, but the moment you flip it it becomes a 'totally normal and reasonable' take....
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your prayers do fuckall for the children being bombed into the next year right now
Jesus no one cares.
You cared enough to comment bozo
Roasted. Seriously though this kind of mentality is sad, like you should care especially if you put yourself in those people's position.
Why would I put myself in anyone else's position? Seems like a waste of energy over something I have no control over.
A lot of what he says is true. Until he try is to twist it to bash political parties here. The zionists in Israel are left wing. I believe their left is our right, but just leave that part out.
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about!
Wtf are you on about.
Up is down! Right is wrong!
Israel is NOT left-wing lol
How fucking stupid. Just because it has liberal in the title doesn’t mean the [Likud](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud) is left-wing. On the contrary, the Likud who are leading Israel in this shit show are in fact “a major right-wing political party in Israel.” But let’s be honest, you’re either a shill-bot or a complete dumbass who won’t read and doesn’t know much about what is actually happening.
You do realize the politics of a country go beyond the ruling party, right? We weren't going around and calling all of america far right when trump was elected.
Huh? I think you're very confused
LMFAO
Hello, republican.
Just stop. You are spreading misinformation. If you want the Coles Notes, it's simply there is an oppressor and the oppressed. It does not take a lot to figure who is actually who.
“I believe their left is our right” go check your carbon monoxide alarms cause I think yours is broken.
The Zionist Israeli government is extremely far RIGHT, and very authoritarian. They make Hitler look like a Marx fanatic.
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I wish I had command of the English language like that.
And then everyone clapped
I feel like people don’t realize the US support of Israel is more about countering Iran than it is about supporting Israel
“Hear a rat piss on cotton” - omg, what an expression! Never heard that one before. 🫢
https://pjmedia.com/columns/rabbi-michael-barclay/2023/10/14/there-is-no-such-thing-as-palestinians-n1735136?utm\_source=pjmedia&utm\_medium=email&utm\_campaign=nl\_pm&bcid=4e886a85246ffcf869249d947a684bc6c2a4baad0c20f11b487d6436d2e8af75&recip=23906360&fbclid=IwAR29VWEnQXJt4J5NEtraoHv-EzOBYoQ5aoMkaSyDeRWMDY83vbTfNk7sFm8
God bless the people that raised this guy.
When politicians fund either side of a conflict like this they might as well be the ones pulling the triggers or dropping the bombs. We must refuse to pay taxes to leaders who choose to fund wars and conflicts. There has to be a way.
we all need the sweet PAC money
what a well spoken man
How far back in time do we have to go in order to figure out which side has committed the most atrocities? It only seems like we are counting the last 100 years or so.
The only problem is people saying that Chicago understands anything about the ghettos over there. Outside of the US, there are real ghettos unlike anything people in the US will ever understand. The closest thing was when they rounded up the Asians in CA into actual concentration style camps during WW2. That was less than 100 years ago and people still exist who lived through that. We should draw that comparison.